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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Preview : February 12th 2015

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  • justin124 said:

    SeanT said:

    OTOH, ouch. Horrible Daily Mail front page for Miliband.

    https://twitter.com/search?q=daily mail front page&src=typd

    But does that matter much when it comes from Adolph Hitler's favourite British newspaper.
    And how many Mail readers do you think are aware of that?

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited February 2015

    According to the article, changing the badly drawn up will, could have saved them up to £100,000 had the law not changed subsequently in their favour.

    What happened in 2007, after the Deed was created is a red herring.

    "could have", except Mrs Miliband has had 20 years to arrange her own affairs and mitigate her IHT liability to zero, if possible, irrespective of the favourable changes in the Finance Act 2008, and irrespective of the Deed of Variation.

    No-one in their right mind pays IHT.
  • RodCrosby said:

    No-one in their right mind pays IHT.

    No, they avoid it. Which is where we started, no?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited February 2015
    Irony is not dead.....a search for 'Daily Mail front page' brings up this corker from the Hull Daily Mail:

    https://twitter.com/hulldailymail/status/565785658720276480
  • Did you read the article before posting the link?
    Yes.

    It avoids answering its own question....and it keeps the story going.....

    Did the Milibands avoid tax?

    Yes.

    I'm not criticising them for it, but Ed would appear to......
    If he uses childcare vouchers, would you consider him to be avoiding tax?

    Pedantically speaking, he is.
    I'm not criticising 'tax avoidance' - Ed is.

    I shop in Duty Free - something that apparently is 'not acceptable' to the people of the UK, according to Ed....
    I think you might be stretching a point, just a teeny weeny bit.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    I still maintain that bringing up tax avoidance will not do Dave any favours.
    His father was one of the "inventors" of this new form of offshoring, and was one of the first off the mark when the Blessed M fired the starting gun.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    RodCrosby said:

    No-one in their right mind pays IHT.

    No, they avoid it. Which is where we started, no?
    They do NOT avoid it.

    [If in their right mind] they simply take advantage of the numerous reliefs created by Parliament to mitigate any potential liability, all the way down to zero.
  • Did you read the article before posting the link?
    Yes.

    It avoids answering its own question....and it keeps the story going.....

    Did the Milibands avoid tax?

    Yes.

    I'm not criticising them for it, but Ed would appear to......
    If he uses childcare vouchers, would you consider him to be avoiding tax?

    Pedantically speaking, he is.
    I'm not criticising 'tax avoidance' - Ed is.

    I shop in Duty Free - something that apparently is 'not acceptable' to the people of the UK, according to Ed....
    I think you might be stretching a point, just a teeny weeny bit.
    And you don't think Ed is?

    Labour tax avoidance legitimate tax planning good.
    Tory tax avoidance legitimate tax planning bad.

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    SeanT said:

    OTOH, ouch. Horrible Daily Mail front page for Miliband.

    https://twitter.com/search?q=daily mail front page&src=typd

    But does that matter much when it comes from Adolph Hitler's favourite British newspaper.
    And how many Mail readers do you think are aware of that?

    Far too few - I am surprised that Labour politicians do not make more effort to bring the fact to public attention.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Ed's energy price freeze ends with higher prices that the companies are unwilling to bring down.

    More recently Ed's "Cost of Living crisis" has tipped us into deflation!

    He really has the negative Midas touch!

    In EdWorld deflation is 10 times worse than a cost of living crisis.
    In fact in EdWorld whatever happens next is 10 times worse than what went before it even if it is what you wanted in the first place.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    When will the Tory press begin to suggest that Ed Milliband is not fit to be PM because he fathered two bastards?
  • RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    No-one in their right mind pays IHT.

    No, they avoid it. Which is where we started, no?
    They do NOT avoid it.

    [If in their right mind] they simply take advantage of the numerous reliefs created by Parliament to mitigate any potential liability, all the way down to zero.
    CAPITAL LETTERS. You win.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    edited February 2015

    Irony is not dead.....a search for 'Daily Mail front page' brings up this corker from the Hull Daily Mail:

    https://twitter.com/hulldailymail/status/565785658720276480

    That's a corker of a headline :D

    Far better than the disgusting Daily Mail front page. In fact the Daily Mail headline itself is fair political game, Ed didn't avoid tax but the facts aren't really the story... I say that for both sides of this row.

    It's the use of that picture in relation to the story. It's just disgusting beyond words, especially since Nick Robinson has on his Twitter account that he's not quoted anyone. Nick's made a genuine slip up there - the front page use of her picture as a political football is something else completely.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,514
    edited February 2015
    Pulpstar said:


    Nick Robinson has on his Twitter account that he's not quoted anyone. Nick's made a genuine slip up there - the front page use of her picture as a political football is something else completely.

    Telegraph are contradicting Nick Robinson's backing the truck up weaseling and pointing the finger directly at Tom Baldwin. However, to be honest, the whole thing is extremely unpleasant, and totally agree with your comment. No need for the picture, the words of the family lawyer is more than enough.
  • RodCrosby said:

    They do NOT avoid it.

    [If in their right mind] they simply take advantage of the numerous reliefs created by Parliament to mitigate any potential liability, all the way down to zero.

    Given that tax avoidance seems to be defined as doing anything so that one's charge or assessment to tax is not maximised, the deed of variation was clearly executed with the intent to avoid inheritance tax in the future. That is not to say that it may not have reduced charge to inheritance tax in practice in the years subsequently, or that it was not lawful or advisable. Miliband is still a rank hyprocrite.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Pulpstar said:


    Nick Robinson has on his Twitter account that he's not quoted anyone. Nick's made a genuine slip up there - the front page use of her picture as a political football is something else completely.

    Telegraph are contradicting Nick Robinson's backing the truck up weaseling and pointing the finger directly at Tom Baldwin. However, to be honest, the whole thing is extremely unpleasant, and totally agree with your comment. No need for the picture, the words of the family lawyer is more than enough.
    I'm confused why Nick would say he wasn't quoting anyone if he actually was
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Stereotomy
    shhhhhhh! It is a Left wing conspiracy and we are meant to keep it secret.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Either Nick Robinson or Tom Baldwin is in serious shit.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Ed seems to be in a fighting mood. He already had success coming out swinging against the Mail once in the past, I wonder if he'll try to repeat that.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    In Nick's case, how much trouble would you be in over a typo?
    Embarrassing yes, but serious shit?
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Pulpstar said:

    Either Nick Robinson or Tom Baldwin is in serious shit.

    Why would Nick Robinson be? He never said it was a quote, and very quickly clarified that it wasn't. If anyone was in shit it'd be the Mail.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    Ed seems to be in a fighting mood. He already had success coming out swinging against the Mail once in the past, I wonder if he'll try to repeat that.

    Needs to be careful how he plays it, with some of the highly sensitive side issues now tacked on.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    Pulpstar said:

    Either Nick Robinson or Tom Baldwin is in serious shit.

    Why would Nick Robinson be? He never said it was a quote, and very quickly clarified that it wasn't. If anyone was in shit it'd be the Mail.
    Fair point - genuine slip up by Nick :)
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Hm actually if aides really didn't say it, Nick was pretty misleading: https://twitter.com/earthygirl01/status/565938649108598784/photo/1
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Pulpstar
    If we assume that it was a genuine mistake by Nick, it is an automatic Ed win
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,514
    edited February 2015
    I wonder where the Telegraph have got their information on this? They make very specific claims of who said what. I hope it is all water tight.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    RodCrosby said:

    They do NOT avoid it.

    [If in their right mind] they simply take advantage of the numerous reliefs created by Parliament to mitigate any potential liability, all the way down to zero.

    Given that tax avoidance seems to be defined as doing anything so that one's charge or assessment to tax is not maximised, the deed of variation was clearly executed with the intent to avoid inheritance tax in the future. That is not to say that it may not have reduced charge to inheritance tax in practice in the years subsequently, or that it was not lawful or advisable. Miliband is still a rank hyprocrite.
    You could more persuasively say the DOV was executed simply to make use of a relief granted to Ralph by Parliament, which he had ill-advisedly neglected to use.

    And, in any case, the DOV was executed by Mrs Miliband, as sole beneficiary, who is a free agent.

    I don't see any hypocrisy or how such, if it exists, attaches to Ed Miliband in particular.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Another possibility is that a remark was paraphrased out of context which would explain the confusion, or it might have been an evil baby eating comment by a Labour viper.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    justin124 said:

    SeanT said:

    OTOH, ouch. Horrible Daily Mail front page for Miliband.

    https://twitter.com/search?q=daily mail front page&src=typd

    But does that matter much when it comes from Adolph Hitler's favourite British newspaper.
    You do know Hitler if dead right?

    Just for info Thatcher is too.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    They do NOT avoid it.

    [If in their right mind] they simply take advantage of the numerous reliefs created by Parliament to mitigate any potential liability, all the way down to zero.

    Given that tax avoidance seems to be defined as doing anything so that one's charge or assessment to tax is not maximised, the deed of variation was clearly executed with the intent to avoid inheritance tax in the future. That is not to say that it may not have reduced charge to inheritance tax in practice in the years subsequently, or that it was not lawful or advisable. Miliband is still a rank hyprocrite.
    You could more persuasively say the DOV was executed simply to make use of a relief granted to Ralph by Parliament, which he had ill-advisedly neglected to use.

    And, in any case, the DOV was executed by Mrs Miliband, as sole beneficiary, who is a free agent.

    I don't see any hypocrisy or how such, if it exists, attaches to Ed Miliband in particular.
    The facts no longer matter, it's all about the smear. Following eds performance at PMQ's I wondered if the gloves would come off. It seems they have.
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited February 2015
    RodCrosby said:

    You could more persuasively say the DOV was executed simply to make use of a relief granted to Ralph by Parliament, which he had ill-advisedly neglected to use.

    And, in any case, the DOV was executed by Mrs Miliband, as sole beneficiary, who is a free agent.

    I don't see any hypocrisy or how such, if it exists, attaches to Ed Miliband in particular.

    If the intent of the deed of variation was not to reduce a potential future charge to tax, i.e tax avoidance, why didn't Mrs Miliband simply assign shares of the equitable interest in the property (which she took absolutely under the first will) to her children? Although the deed may have been executed by Mrs Miliband as a free agent, neither of the children could have taken beneficially under it unless they elected not to disclaim their beneficial interest (see in Re Paradise Motor Company [1968] 1 WLR 1125 (CA), per Danckwerts LJ). The children had actual knowledge of the deed of variation and did not elect to disclaim. They are therefore complicit in it, notwithstanding that it was executed by Mrs Miliband as a free agent.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    I wonder where the Telegraph have got their information on this? They make very specific claims of who said what. I hope it is all water tight.

    Is it me or does Tom Baldwin have a very open and shut libel case against the Telegraph ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Unless he actually came out with it, Nick's Twitter retraction seems to indicate that isn't the case though...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Looks like this one will rumble on for a bit anyway...
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    test
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    If someone uses a selfie-stick, and puts their camera on the end of one, how do they click the camera to take a photo?
    Even the usually-brilliant Michael Gove couldn't explain it when I asked him this evening.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,040
    JohnLoony said:

    If someone uses a selfie-stick, and puts their camera on the end of one, how do they click the camera to take a photo?
    Even the usually-brilliant Michael Gove couldn't explain it when I asked him this evening.

    I enjoyed the name drop, but you can solve it easily with the timer function!
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    JohnLoony said:

    If someone uses a selfie-stick, and puts their camera on the end of one, how do they click the camera to take a photo?
    Even the usually-brilliant Michael Gove couldn't explain it when I asked him this evening.

    bluetooth connection to the camera software
This discussion has been closed.