Has Miliband repeated his Fink accusation outside the safe confines of Parliament yet?
I don't think he will dare. I wonder if this is a big mistake by EdM.
Miliband accused Fink of involvement in tax avoidance, not of personally evading taxes. Though I can see why Fink is angry, I suspect CCHQ could do without headlines dominated by Tory tax cheats.
It was pretty obvious what Miliband was trying to smear Fink with, and it wasn't avoidance.
Well I don't know anything about the rights or wrongs of the case, DJ, but on reading what appears in Hansard I should say they are perfectly reasonable questions to be put by a LOTO to the PM.
Frankly it's wrong that smug union fat cats can make multi-million quid donations - one can only assume for the purchase of power and influence. Wrong, wrong, wrong again and still wrong.
Cyclefree - I agree with everything you've put. Just wonder if this might bite in other ways. Think a moral line has been crossed and there are some people who might no longer sit on the fence re. Miliband. Maybe not. Just sense something has changed.
The severance pay MPs get is a disgrace IMO. Nice to know Patrick Hall has already spent the £54,000 he received in 2010 on losing his seat in Bedford. Mike Hancock is on course to get it if he stands as an independent in Portsmouth South.
But maybe it's worth remembering that Patrick was classed by the Telegraph during the Parliament expenses scandal as---I think the term was---an "angel". That is to say, they didn't find any fiddling by him.
The Telegraph's investigations were flawed and mismanaged. Their sole focus was on getting a scandal a day, and on a number occasions fingered MP's who actually hadn't really done anything wrong and on others completely missed what they were up to. Using them as a indication of angel or sinner can lead to some very dodgy conclusions.
Labour back in to 21. My guess is 2 polls. One shows neck-and-neck or even slight Lab lead. The other is going to be big news somehow. NB that's guesswork not insider trading.
Maybe poll No.2. is tomorrow morning's?
I hope you all realise that a total of
ZERO POUNDS AND ZERO PENCE
has traded on Lab Majority at 20 or bigger on Betfair
there was £3 at 19.5 if that gets you excited
So you have all been talking about nothing happening for the last couple of hours or so
'Frankly it's wrong that smug plutocrats like Fink can make 3 million quid donations - one can only assume for the purchase of power and influence. Wrong, wrong, wrong again and still wrong.'
But when smug plutocrats were giving millions to New Labour it was absolutely fine.
Cyclefree - I agree with everything you've put. Just wonder if this might bite in other ways. Think a moral line has been crossed and there are some people who might no longer sit on the fence re. Miliband. Maybe not. Just sense something has changed.
A few Tory back benchers should man up, and play the Parly Privilege game by the same rules.
Ipsos MORI is in the same ballpark as Lord Ashcroft, so I suspect that's a fair Conservative lead. If so, that would mean the Conservatives led with three out of four telephone pollsters.
Maybe the polling lead finally falling into line with the PM approval forecast?
Do you think this makes sense of Cameron's comment in the HoC? Seemed an amazingly confident assertion: "that's why you're losing"? Or was that maybe bluster 'cos Miliband got under his skin.
Who knows.
I think bluster is about the only weapon in Cameron's arsenal at the moment in fairness.
Ohh no..... have I missed another Ed Disaster. Another electoral earthquake of Mansion Tax riot proportions?
PB Hodges saying Labour/Miliband are a disgrace.......Dan would be proud of every last one of you.
I've been keeping an eye on something in the past few day's and what I've observed is that you are the only one who regularly post's about Dan Hodges....
Good to see PB is full of rattled Tories tonight. Personally, I think the more light that is shone on the murky tax affairs of the rich and powerful of these Islands the better. This country is rotten - I rarely wish we were more like the States - but in the case of tax rules I do.
Frankly it's wrong that smug plutocrats like Fink can make 3 million quid donations - one can only assume for the purchase of power and influence. Wrong, wrong, wrong again and still wrong.
I am not a Tory. But current Labour policy seems to be the following:-
1. If you are a foreign citizen who has never lived in the UK (Stefano Pessina) you are avoiding UK tax. I imagine the Italian authorities must be furious that all those British people living in the UK are also avoiding Italian taxes.
2. If you go and work in another country and have a bank account there you are avoiding UK tax. Presumably all those foreigners coming here to work are also avoiding tax in their home countries.
3. If you are rich you must not donate to a political party. No doubt they will be repaying tomorrow all those loans they have received from rich people.
Labour are coming across as nasty and ignorant. Their rage against the Tories on tax - while it may be politically effective - seems much like Caliban, raging against the nastiness in their own party, given the way they sucked up to the rich when in power, their failure to take any steps at all to close loopholes and pursue tax evaders and their decision to hit the very poorest in society with the 100% increase in the tax rate paid by the lowest paid.
Miliband is a shit of the worst kind, reduced to smear because Labour has no policies. I reckon the amount of ordure that's going to be poured over Miliband and co is 10 x what the Sun poured over John Major.
Dodgy Dave was rumbled by the Labour leader today as a weak leader with poor judgement,linking the appointment of Lord Green with Andy Coulson.Colliding with Dave's dash for cash Tory donor affair,never has the party of the rich seemed more apposite.The fear of Miliband's increased strength is seen by the hysterical front pages of the Barclays/Murdoch/Dacre press barons.
The severance pay MPs get is a disgrace IMO. Nice to know Patrick Hall has already spent the £54,000 he received in 2010 on losing his seat in Bedford. Mike Hancock is on course to get it if he stands as an independent in Portsmouth South.
But maybe it's worth remembering that Patrick was classed by the Telegraph during the Parliament expenses scandal as---I think the term was---an "angel". That is to say, they didn't find any fiddling by him.
The Telegraph's investigations were flawed and mismanaged. Their sole focus was on getting a scandal a day, and on a number occasions fingered MP's who actually hadn't really done anything wrong and on others completely missed what they were up to. Using them as a indication of angel or sinner can lead to some very dodgy conclusions.
Incidentally the Telegraph's decision to axe Telegraph blogs has proved to be spectacularly misjudged. It was fast becoming THE place to go to, for reasonably articulate rightwing opinion - yet they canned it, sacked all the journos, then realised they had lost trillions of visitors, and now the axemen have mostly themselves been axed, as a result.
One of the stupidest moves in the history of Fleet Street. Singularly dumb. Tsk.
I am sure you have a much better idea what is going on at the Telegraph, but from the outside looking in, it looks like a total clusterf##k.
Labour back in to 21. My guess is 2 polls. One shows neck-and-neck or even slight Lab lead. The other is going to be big news somehow. NB that's guesswork not insider trading.
Probably. Tories on backfoot, being defensive about tax avoidance. Even if no substance, even if Miliband were to have to personally apologise, more people will remember an insinuation of wrong doing, that fits with many peoples' perception of rich people and Tories anyway, than the backtracking I would guess.
'Frankly it's wrong that smug plutocrats like Fink can make 3 million quid donations - one can only assume for the purchase of power and influence. Wrong, wrong, wrong again and still wrong.'
But when smug plutocrats were giving millions to New Labour it was absolutely fine.
Ohh no..... have I missed another Ed Disaster. Another electoral earthquake of Mansion Tax riot proportions?
PB Hodges saying Labour/Miliband are a disgrace.......Dan would be proud of every last one of you.
I've been keeping an eye on something in the past few day's and what I've observed is that you are the only one who regularly post's about Dan Hodges....
Which means you, infact, ARE the PBHodges!!!!!!!
Mention King Dan very rarely. PB Hodges, now that is a different matter.
Miliband is a shit of the worst kind, reduced to smear because Labour has no policies. I reckon the amount of ordure that's going to be poured over Miliband and co is 10 x what the Sun poured over John Major.
Probably. Tories on backfoot, being defensive about tax avoidance. Even if no substance, even if Miliband were to have to personally apologise, more people will remember an insinuation of wrong doing, that fits with many peoples' perception of rich people and Tories anyway, than the backtracking I would guess.
Also, nobody is talking about Labour's own donors with Swiss bank accounts...so job done by Ed, even if he can't back up what he said outside of HoC. It isn't like the BBC / Guardian are going to go big if he does just run away from repeating his claims.
Probably. Tories on backfoot, being defensive about tax avoidance. Even if no substance, even if Miliband were to have to personally apologise, more people will remember an insinuation of wrong doing, that fits with many peoples' perception of rich people and Tories anyway, than the backtracking I would guess.
As I said ...a shit of the worst kind and totally unfit to be PM of our Country.
Labour back in to 21. My guess is 2 polls. One shows neck-and-neck or even slight Lab lead. The other is going to be big news somehow. NB that's guesswork not insider trading.
Maybe poll No.2. is tomorrow morning's?
I hope you all realise that a total of
ZERO POUNDS AND ZERO PENCE
has traded on Lab Majority
Actually £10,092 traded since 15.55 today.
Actually.. you are wrong
There has only been £6957 traded on Labour majority since the market opened.. and in reality its actually half that because each pound traded is doubled in the figures
"Betting on: Lab Majority Total matched on this event: £45,438 Betting summary - Volume: £6,957 Last price matched: 16.00 "
Why did you edit my quote? I said no money had traded at bigger than 20... and it hasn't
Yes, Tory...Donor....Dodgy...in the headline. He shoots, he scores.
Surely the Mirror will lead with.
You thought the Tories were not dodgy tax avoiders? Fink again
Nope....they have some story about a chauffeur. Always going for the big stories these days on the front of the Mirror. It is probably like 90% of their stories total BS.
Good to see PB is full of rattled Tories tonight. Personally, I think the more light that is shone on the murky tax affairs of the rich and powerful of these Islands the better. This country is rotten - I rarely wish we were more like the States - but in the case of tax rules I do.
Frankly it's wrong that smug plutocrats like Fink can make 3 million quid donations - one can only assume for the purchase of power and influence. Wrong, wrong, wrong again and still wrong.
I am not a Tory. But current Labour policy seems to be the following:-
1. If you are a foreign citizen who has never lived in the UK (Stefano Pessina) you are avoiding UK tax. I imagine the Italian authorities must be furious that all those British people living in the UK are also avoiding Italian taxes.
2. If you go and work in another country and have a bank account there you are avoiding UK tax. Presumably all those foreigners coming here to work are also avoiding tax in their home countries.
3. If you are rich you must not donate to a political party. No doubt they will be repaying tomorrow all those loans they have received from rich people.
Labour are coming across as nasty and ignorant. Their rage against the Tories on tax - while it may be politically effective - seems much like Caliban, raging against the nastiness in their own party, given the way they sucked up to the rich when in power, their failure to take any steps at all to close loopholes and pursue tax evaders and their decision to hit the very poorest in society with the 100% increase in the tax rate paid by the lowest paid.
Being nasty and ignorant is not necessarily unhelpful to Labour. Lashing out at scapegoats can be a successful strategy.
The severance pay MPs get is a disgrace IMO. Nice to know Patrick Hall has already spent the £54,000 he received in 2010 on losing his seat in Bedford. Mike Hancock is on course to get it if he stands as an independent in Portsmouth South.
But maybe it's worth remembering that Patrick was classed by the Telegraph during the Parliament expenses scandal as---I think the term was---an "angel". That is to say, they didn't find any fiddling by him.
The Telegraph's investigations were flawed and mismanaged. Their sole focus was on getting a scandal a day, and on a number occasions fingered MP's who actually hadn't really done anything wrong and on others completely missed what they were up to. Using them as a indication of angel or sinner can lead to some very dodgy conclusions.
Incidentally the Telegraph's decision to axe Telegraph blogs has proved to be spectacularly misjudged. It was fast becoming THE place to go to, for reasonably articulate rightwing opinion - yet they canned it, sacked all the journos, then realised they had lost trillions of visitors, and now the axemen have mostly themselves been axed, as a result.
One of the stupidest moves in the history of Fleet Street. Singularly dumb. Tsk.
Agreed. I count myself as socially lefty, economically a bit more to the right, but for whatever reason I would read blog after blog on the Telegraph every day, where I presume my opinions would subtly or not so subtly (depending on the intent and merits of the piece) be influenced in a rightward leaning direction, and that also meant I got a lot of other news and opinion from there. I've not gotten in to the habit of other newspaper websites yet to the same degree, so it's back to relying mostly on BBC.co.uk, which I doubt is where the right wants me to get most of my info (though I believe the web news is considered less overtly lefty than the broadcast BBC stuff?)
Miliband is a shit of the worst kind, reduced to smear because Labour has no policies. I reckon the amount of ordure that's going to be poured over Miliband and co is 10 x what the Sun poured over John Major.
As ye sow , so shall ye reap.
I would kind of like to see him win in May and then watch him have sh*t poured over his head for the following five years. Be humiliated by Alex and Nicola day in an day out etc...
But the country would go down the tubes at the same time.
Some of the green-envy crew below seem to forget that a key reason TB won, and won brilliantly, is 'cos he cozied up to business. Labour didn't have that platform and it took John Smith then Blair to build it. Miliband's doing something that no winner has done since, well, back in the 70's I suppose when we were the sick man of Europe and hamstrung by unions.
It's the ignorance that gets me, many Labour supporters surely understand that it's quite normal now for people to work and/or live overseas and have entirely legitimate reasons for arranging their financial affairs to be convenient for them. The idea that anybody who pays tax or has bank accounts in other countries is inherently a crook is plainly stupid. And the message it sends about the likely next UK government is quite worrying. Labour - "we don't understand the modern world".
Some of the green-envy crew below seem to forget that a key reason TB won, and won brilliantly, is 'cos he cozied up to business. Labour didn't have that platform and it took John Smith then Blair to build it. Miliband's doing something that no winner has done since, well, back in the 70's I suppose when we were the sick man of Europe and hamstrung by unions.
It smacks to me of desperation.
My recollection is that the Tory Party was weak and divided at the time.
Good to see PB is full of rattled Tories tonight. Personally, I think the more light that is shone on the murky tax affairs of the rich and powerful of these Islands the better. This country is rotten - I rarely wish we were more like the States - but in the case of tax rules I do.
Frankly it's wrong that smug plutocrats like Fink can make 3 million quid donations - one can only assume for the purchase of power and influence. Wrong, wrong, wrong again and still wrong.
I am not a Tory.
As much as the PB Tories are ridiculed, not without cause at times, one thing I have learned is that if someone, even a non-Tory voter, happens to have a view which might coincide with them there is a goodly chance they will be seen to have, remarkably, contracted with the same PB Tory affliction and so be discounted,
It's the ignorance that gets me, many Labour supporters surely understand that it's quite normal now for people to work and/or live overseas and have entirely legitimate reasons for arranging their financial affairs to be convenient for them. The idea that anybody who pays tax or has bank accounts in other countries is inherently a crook is plainly stupid. And the message it sends about the likely next UK government is quite worrying. Labour - "we don't understand the modern world".
From the telegraph
" A Labour spokesman said: "There are serious allegations in The Guardian about Lord Fink including his complex arrangements to minimise tax.
"He still has not justified the reasons why he made these arrangements. He should do so. "
Does this count as repeating the allegations outside of Parliamentary privilege?
Out of the last 20 polls Cameron the non-dogy tax loving political supremo has been ahead in three. Whilst that utter disgrace and all round crap Ed Miliband has been ahead in 13 of them. Labour ahead by 1%
January is the crossover month and February will be the pulling away month. Beware the Valentines Day Polling masacre for Labour.
Has Miliband repeated his Fink accusation outside the safe confines of Parliament yet?
I don't think he will dare. I wonder if this is a big mistake by EdM.
Miliband accused Fink of involvement in tax avoidance, not of personally evading taxes. Though I can see why Fink is angry, I suspect CCHQ could do without headlines dominated by Tory tax cheats.
It was pretty obvious what Miliband was trying to smear Fink with, and it wasn't avoidance.
Well I don't know anything about the rights or wrongs of the case, DJ, but on reading what appears in Hansard I should say they are perfectly reasonable questions to be put by a LOTO to the PM.
What's the problem?
Agree entirely, I can only assume that the faux hysterics coming from the Tory PBers tonight is because they are acutely aware that their image as the party that cares more about hedge fund managers, tax avoiders and the super wealthy than it does for the average person is a major obstacle to their ever winning an overall majority.
Good to see PB is full of rattled Tories tonight. Personally, I think the more light that is shone on the murky tax affairs of the rich and powerful of these Islands the better. This country is rotten - I rarely wish we were more like the States - but in the case of tax rules I do.
Frankly it's wrong that smug plutocrats like Fink can make 3 million quid donations - one can only assume for the purchase of power and influence. Wrong, wrong, wrong again and still wrong.
I am not a Tory. But current Labour policy seems to be the following:-
1. If you are a foreign citizen who has never lived in the UK (Stefano Pessina) you are avoiding UK tax. I imagine the Italian authorities must be furious that all those British people living in the UK are also avoiding Italian taxes.
2. If you go and work in another country and have a bank account there you are avoiding UK tax. Presumably all those foreigners coming here to work are also avoiding tax in their home countries.
3. If you are rich you must not donate to a political party. No doubt they will be repaying tomorrow all those loans they have received from rich people.
Labour are coming across as nasty and ignorant. Their rage against the Tories on tax - while it may be politically effective - seems much like Caliban, raging against the nastiness in their own party, given the way they sucked up to the rich when in power, their failure to take any steps at all to close loopholes and pursue tax evaders and their decision to hit the very poorest in society with the 100% increase in the tax rate paid by the lowest paid.
Being nasty and ignorant is not necessarily unhelpful to Labour. Lashing out at scapegoats can be a successful strategy.
Agreed - which is no doubt why they are doing it. It does not make for good government, though.
How do you think this sort of behaviour will go down with some industry chief in a foreign country wondering whether or not to invest in Britain under a Labour government? Invest in Britain and risk the British Prime Minister accusing you of being a crook. Yes - that should go down well.
Usually I would say the Tories and Labour ripping the ***t out of each other like this would be bad for UKIP as it puts them firmly off the news agenda, but the content of the argument is very 'old politics'. If it were about the NHS or economic policy there would be no real angle UKIP could take on it. As it is I think it enhances their NOTA position.
Probably. Tories on backfoot, being defensive about tax avoidance. Even if no substance, even if Miliband were to have to personally apologise, more people will remember an insinuation of wrong doing, that fits with many peoples' perception of rich people and Tories anyway, than the backtracking I would guess.
Also, nobody is talking about Labour's own donors with Swiss bank accounts....
Some of the green-envy crew below seem to forget that a key reason TB won, and won brilliantly, is 'cos he cozied up to business. Labour didn't have that platform and it took John Smith then Blair to build it. Miliband's doing something that no winner has done since, well, back in the 70's I suppose when we were the sick man of Europe and hamstrung by unions.
It smacks to me of desperation.
Times are different now. It may well be done due to desperation, it is certainly the case Labour are not running away with this like they probably should be given Tory weaknesses which are far more deep and longlasting, but that doesn't mean it might not work now. Labour only need a slight edge on where they are now, a desperate last push could do it.
The severance pay MPs get is a disgrace IMO. Nice to know Patrick Hall has already spent the £54,000 he received in 2010 on losing his seat in Bedford. Mike Hancock is on course to get it if he stands as an independent in Portsmouth South.
But maybe it's worth remembering that Patrick was classed by the Telegraph during the Parliament expenses scandal as---I think the term was---an "angel". That is to say, they didn't find any fiddling by him.
The Telegraph's investigations were flawed and mismanaged. Their sole focus was on getting a scandal a day, and on a number occasions fingered MP's who actually hadn't really done anything wrong and on others completely missed what they were up to. Using them as a indication of angel or sinner can lead to some very dodgy conclusions.
Incidentally the Telegraph's decision to axe Telegraph blogs has proved to be spectacularly misjudged. It was fast becoming THE place to go to, for reasonably articulate rightwing opinion - yet they canned it, sacked all the journos, then realised they had lost trillions of visitors, and now the axemen have mostly themselves been axed, as a result.
One of the stupidest moves in the history of Fleet Street. Singularly dumb. Tsk.
I think it's that American with a face like a hatchet they've got in that's done it isn't it? Certainly wouldn't want to run into him in a dark ally -creepy doesn't cover it.
Good to see PB is full of rattled Tories tonight. Personally, I think the more light that is shone on the murky tax affairs of the rich and powerful of these Islands the better. This country is rotten - I rarely wish we were more like the States - but in the case of tax rules I do.
Frankly it's wrong that smug plutocrats like Fink can make 3 million quid donations - one can only assume for the purchase of power and influence. Wrong, wrong, wrong again and still wrong.
I am not a Tory. But current Labour policy seems to be the following:-
1. If you are a foreign citizen who has never lived in the UK (Stefano Pessina) you are avoiding UK tax. I imagine the Italian authorities must be furious that all those British people living in the UK are also avoiding Italian taxes.
2. If you go and work in another country and have a bank account there you are avoiding UK tax. Presumably all those foreigners coming here to work are also avoiding tax in their home countries.
3. If you are rich you must not donate to a political party. No doubt they will be repaying tomorrow all those loans they have received from rich people.
Labour are coming across as nasty and ignorant. Their rage against the Tories on tax - while it may be politically effective - seems much like Caliban, raging against the nastiness in their own party, given the way they sucked up to the rich when in power, their failure to take any steps at all to close loopholes and pursue tax evaders and their decision to hit the very poorest in society with the 100% increase in the tax rate paid by the lowest paid.
1. If he has no horse to run then Pessina should butt out of pontificating publicly on UK politics 2. Non Dom is no more than a mechanism for enabling tax avoidance. They don't have this BS in the US. 3. Labour have never been recipients of individual donations on the scale of the Tories.
I'm angry Cyclefree. I've never in my 49 years seen a regime that is as nepotistic, as sucky up to big corporate money, and as interested in furthering it's own agenda at the expense of supporting services that make a difference to ordinary people as this one. Public agencies have being neutered and cowed, corporate buddies are being given free rein. I'm no fan of Labour either but by God I like the Tories a damn sight less.
"1. If you are a foreign citizen who has never lived in the UK (Stefano Pessina) you are avoiding UK tax. I imagine the Italian authorities must be furious that all those British people living in the UK are also avoiding Italian taxes."
I think you are confusing your stories. He's the hedge fund owner of Boots who decided to lecture Ed on what his tax policy should be. Ed quite rightly in my opinion said if you want to pay UK tax fine otherwise f*ck of and discuss Swiss tax.
Probably. Tories on backfoot, being defensive about tax avoidance. Even if no substance, even if Miliband were to have to personally apologise, more people will remember an insinuation of wrong doing, that fits with many peoples' perception of rich people and Tories anyway, than the backtracking I would guess.
Also, nobody is talking about Labour's own donors with Swiss bank accounts....
For the moment, anyway.......
And who is going to talk about them? It is like phone hacking. Murdoch / NI was the target, the fact that every other newspaper except the Indy were at it at some stage, irrelevant. The fact the Mirror are now said to have been at it worst than NOTW, no mention on the BBC or Guardian, not a jot....just minor articles hidden away saying Mirror paid out.
This is how this will play out. We will get days and days, if not weeks and weeks of people analysing the likes of Fink's financial affairs, who said what when, with barely a mention of the £2 million outstanding loan to Labour from a guy on the list plus the other names.
Another good example, Ashcroft, painted as the most evil non-dom tax dodging donor going, years of research trying to get him in some way, when Labour had plenty of their own, no interest.
Some of the green-envy crew below seem to forget that a key reason TB won, and won brilliantly, is 'cos he cozied up to business. Labour didn't have that platform and it took John Smith then Blair to build it. Miliband's doing something that no winner has done since, well, back in the 70's I suppose when we were the sick man of Europe and hamstrung by unions.
It smacks to me of desperation.
Times are different now. It may well be done due to desperation, it is certainly the case Labour are not running away with this like they probably should be given Tory weaknesses which are far more deep and longlasting, but that doesn't mean it might not work now. Labour only need a slight edge on where they are now, a desperate last push could do it.
It is as almost some PB lefties have forgotten that it was only a few years ago a serving Labour Prime Minister was questioned by the police over his donors and their donations, sorry loans.
Still he was no David Lloyd George. Liberals eh, worst out of the lot of them.
"1. If you are a foreign citizen who has never lived in the UK (Stefano Pessina) you are avoiding UK tax. I imagine the Italian authorities must be furious that all those British people living in the UK are also avoiding Italian taxes."
I think you are confusing your stories. He's the hedge fund owner of Boots who decided to lecture Ed on what his tax policy should be. Ed quite rightly in my opinion said if you want to pay UK tax fine otherwise f*ck of and discuss Swiss tax.
You never answered whether you've got any of your millions stashed away on the Cote D'Azur?
Some rumours swirling about tomorrow's Ipsos Mori. Think it's interesting.
Care to share? Just between friends. Nobody's watching.
Ah sorry I'm not an insider. Just watching twitter rumours and putting that together with movements earlier. Sometimes a bit of detective work can show what's happened. Ipsos-Mori is bad for Labour so their price went out sharply, then countered when news of YouGov status quo filtered. As I say that's just based on watching the market & twitter not anything I can pin down on or claim :-)
Some rumours swirling about tomorrow's Ipsos Mori. Think it's interesting.
Care to share? Just between friends. Nobody's watching.
Ah sorry I'm not an insider. Just watching twitter rumours and putting that together with movements earlier. Sometimes a bit of detective work can show what's happened. Ipsos-Mori is bad for Labour so their price went out sharply, then countered when news of YouGov status quo filtered. As I say that's just based on watching the market & twitter not anything I can pin down on or claim :-)
Good to see PB is full of rattled Tories tonight. Personally, I think the more light that is shone on the murky tax affairs of the rich and powerful of these Islands the better. This country is rotten - I rarely wish we were more like the States - but in the case of tax rules I do.
Frankly it's wrong that smug plutocrats like Fink can make 3 million quid donations - one can only assume for the purchase of power and influence. Wrong, wrong, wrong again and still wrong.
I am not a Tory. But current Labour policy seems to be the following:-
1. If you are a foreign citizen who has never lived in the UK (Stefano Pessina) you are avoiding UK tax. I imagine the Italian authorities must be furious that all those British people living in the UK are also avoiding Italian taxes.
2. If you go and work in another country and have a bank account there you are avoiding UK tax. Presumably all those foreigners coming here to work are also avoiding tax in their home countries.
3. If you are rich you must not donate to a political party. No doubt they will be repaying tomorrow all those loans they have received from rich people.
Labour are coming across as nasty and ignorant. Their rage against the Tories on tax - while it may be politically effective - seems much like Caliban, raging against the nastiness in their own party, given the way they sucked up to the rich when in power, their failure to take any steps at all to close loopholes and pursue tax evaders and their decision to hit the very poorest in society with the 100% increase in the tax rate paid by the lowest paid.
I've never in my 49 years seen a regime that is as nepotistic, as sucky up to big corporate money, and as interested in furthering it's own agenda at the expense of supporting services that make a difference to ordinary people as this one.
Really? I've not that level of experience by any means, but this government just seems kinda crappy to me, without the talent let alone will to achieve such awfulness intentionally or otherwise. Mediocrity seems about all they could muster up, without the ambition necessary to succeed or fail hugely.
Fortunately for Labour my vote will neither matter in May (as I live in a safe seat), nor do they need to win in the sort of seat I live in, but even if you are totally correct about how bad this government is, if they tried pushing that line on me I'd switch off as I just cannot see them as such bogeymen. I think Labour will win anyway, but I certainly hope you are wrong if somehow Cameron gets back in!
I think you are confusing your stories. He's the hedge fund owner of Boots who decided to lecture Ed on what his tax policy should be. Ed quite rightly in my opinion said if you want to pay UK tax fine otherwise f*ck of and discuss Swiss tax.
Ed complains about the tax regimes in lots of other countries, should they tell him to STFU?
Whether or not you like Pessina, he controls a very large UK employer, he has the right to say how he thinks a future Labour government will affect his businesses in the UK. And Labour would do well to listen for once.
I think you are confusing your stories. He's the hedge fund owner of Boots who decided to lecture Ed on what his tax policy should be. Ed quite rightly in my opinion said if you want to pay UK tax fine otherwise f*ck of and discuss Swiss tax.
Ed complains about the tax regimes in lots of other countries, should they tell him to STFU?
Whether or not you like Pessina, he controls a very large UK employer, he has the right to say how he thinks a future Labour government will affect his businesses in the UK. And Labour would do well to listen for once.
I'm angry Cyclefree. I've never in my 49 years seen a regime that is as nepotistic, as sucky up to big corporate money, and as interested in furthering it's own agenda at the expense of supporting services that make a difference to ordinary people as this one. Public agencies have being neutered and cowed, corporate buddies are being given free rein. I'm no fan of Labour either but by God I like the Tories a damn sight less.
Regarding your last paragraph, I'm right with you waving a placard on the first bit, but you totally lose me with your public agencies bit. Neutered and cowed? The teaching unions that decided they didn't like the Education Secretary so got rid of him? The bloated Saint NHS and its insatiable appetite for public funds in return for starving the elderly to death?
The antidote to mega corporations isn't mega state institutions and mega regulations. They are actually very comfortable bedfellows. The antidote is small businesses. Less regulation. People and families with control over their lives. That's what we should be arguing for.
Today has been one of the finest examples of deranged PB Tory groupthink seen for some time, among a list of candidates a mile long. We are asked to believe that the Tories' links to grand tax dodging should not be questioned. Meanwhile, a pink bus was breathlessly deemed such a disaster for Labour that I fear for Scott_P's sexual health.
Great entertainment though, only right here on PB.
Out of the last 20 polls Cameron the non-dogy tax loving political supremo has been ahead in three. Whilst that utter disgrace and all round crap Ed Miliband has been ahead in 13 of them. Labour ahead by 1%
January is the crossover month and February will be the pulling away month. Beware the Valentines Day Polling masacre for Labour.
Some rumours swirling about tomorrow's Ipsos Mori. Think it's interesting.
Care to share? Just between friends. Nobody's watching.
Ah sorry I'm not an insider. Just watching twitter rumours and putting that together with movements earlier. Sometimes a bit of detective work can show what's happened. Ipsos-Mori is bad for Labour so their price went out sharply, then countered when news of YouGov status quo filtered. As I say that's just based on watching the market & twitter not anything I can pin down on or claim :-)
@isam says there was sod all money traded on Betfair at the long prices you cite and, despite his not being a fan of mine, to say the very least, I have no reason to doubt him (I haven't checked).
1. If he has no horse to run then Pessina should butt out of pontificating publicly on UK politics 2. Non Dom is no more than a mechanism for enabling tax avoidance. They don't have this BS in the US. 3. Labour have never been recipients of individual donations on the scale of the Tories.
I'm angry Cyclefree. I've never in my 49 years seen a regime that is as nepotistic, as sucky up to big corporate money, and as interested in furthering it's own agenda at the expense of supporting services that make a difference to ordinary people as this one. Public agencies have being neutered and cowed, corporate buddies are being given free rein. I'm no fan of Labour either but by God I like the Tories a damn sight less.
On no. 1 I tend to agree that making a generalised statement like that when you don't vote may be unwise. Though since Pessina has a company here which employs a large number of employees, he is entitled to comment on how a party's proposals might affect that company and those who work there.
No 2 has nothing to do with non-doms. It's about people who go abroad to work there and while there pay tax in that country and have bank accounts there. Lots of people do this.
But since you raised non-doms doubtless you are aware that the amount that has to be paid by those registering as non-doms has been increased by this government.
On no. 3 given the well know difficulties Labour had over cash for peerages, Bernie Ecclestone and the rest they are hardly in a position to throw stones. The only Prime Minister to be questioned under caution by the police is a Labour Prime Minister. I find that shameful and am surprised that Labour supporters on here don't feel the same or somehow think that with that background they have the moral high ground over the Tories.
Re your more general point, it was Labour who sucked up to corporates such as RBS and entered into a Faustian pact with big money. It was Labour who increased the tax on the poorest by 100%. Just ponder that for a moment. And Labour MPs cheered that when it was announced in the House because they were too stupid to understand what they had done. Or if they did understand they didn't care because they thought it stuffed the Tories. I was - and remain - pretty angry about that.
By contrast, the tax paid by those very same poorest has been reduced under this government.
And, frankly, I have no confidence that Labour would not reverse those changes were they to be in government.
Labour supporters do have a tendency to be remarkably blind about the motes in their own party's eyes. Labour's self-righteousness comes across as sickening, frankly.
I am slightly surprised by Tory tactics. If they think attacking Miliband on the right of people to avoid tax on the grounds that "it is legal" is equal in political judgement in saying it would be good to privatise the NHS because it would increase "efficiency".
Also, getting a non dom tax avoider living in Monaco to head criticism of Labour's tax policy was indeed strange. Ed probably couldn't believe his luck. Quite rightly, he told him to f**k off !
Btw Casino - have you noticed how a Lab/SNP deal is becoming increasingly talked about .... perhaps not as "foolhardy" a bet as you suggested .... now a 6/1 shot, compared with my 25/1 bet.
Ha! Best comment under the review of 50 Shades over at DoG:
Some things in life you just don't need to do, and can pride yourself on being a better class of human scumbag because you said 'no, thanks'. Those things include mixing/injecting crack and heroin snowballs in a central London phonebox, not cheating on your girlfriend with her friend while she's gone to the shops, stopping at pint number 4 every time and not going to see this film, even under pretense of 'xyz is making me go and see it'. I may not have managed the other three but god dammit, 25% win is better than 0% - I'm seeing this one through to the end.
If you ever wanted proof that the BBC is the broadcasting arm of The Guardian & the Labour Party, you just have to view their websites lead story now on Milibands pathetic "dodgy" claim. Utterly disgraceful coverage.
The only Prime Minister to be questioned under caution by the police is a Labour Prime Minister. I find that shameful and am surprised that Labour supporters on here don't feel the same or somehow think that with that background they have the moral high ground over the Tories.
Labour supporters have had all memories from 1997 to 2007 wiped, and a fair number of them have wiped 2007 to 2010 as well.
1. If he has no horse to run then Pessina should butt out of pontificating publicly on UK politics 2. Non Dom is no more than a mechanism for enabling tax avoidance. They don't have this BS in the US. 3. Labour have never been recipients of individual donations on the scale of the Tories.
I'm angry Cyclefree. I've never in my 49 years seen a regime that is as nepotistic, as sucky up to big corporate money, and as interested in furthering it's own agenda at the expense of supporting services that make a difference to ordinary people as this one. Public agencies have being neutered and cowed, corporate buddies are being given free rein. I'm no fan of Labour either but by God I like the Tories a damn sight less.
surprised that Labour supporters on here don't feel the same or somehow think that with that background they have the moral high ground over the Tories.
But...but Labour are just..better, even when the same issues apply! (In this case I do not know enough to make a judgement is worse).
Why, next you will be saying that cuts from a Labour government, on to those affected, will feel the same as Tory cuts!
"1. If you are a foreign citizen who has never lived in the UK (Stefano Pessina) you are avoiding UK tax. I imagine the Italian authorities must be furious that all those British people living in the UK are also avoiding Italian taxes."
I think you are confusing your stories. He's the hedge fund owner of Boots who decided to lecture Ed on what his tax policy should be. Ed quite rightly in my opinion said if you want to pay UK tax fine otherwise f*ck of and discuss Swiss tax.
I'm not confusing anything. See my post below.
You are the one who's confused. Pessina does not live in Switzerland.
Still if only those who pay UK tax are allowed to comment on British politics then there are going to be a lot of people living in the UK who won't be allowed to comment either, quite a few of them Labour supporters.
Is Labour's policy now "No representation without taxation."
I'm angry Cyclefree. I've never in my 49 years seen a regime that is as nepotistic, as sucky up to big corporate money, and as interested in furthering it's own agenda at the expense of supporting services that make a difference to ordinary people as this one. Public agencies have being neutered and cowed, corporate buddies are being given free rein. I'm no fan of Labour either but by God I like the Tories a damn sight less.
Regarding your last paragraph, I'm right with you waving a placard on the first bit, but you totally lose me with your public agencies bit. Neutered and cowed? The teaching unions that decided they didn't like the Education Secretary so got rid of him? The bloated Saint NHS and its insatiable appetite for public funds in return for starving the elderly to death?
The antidote to mega corporations isn't mega state institutions and mega regulations. They are actually very comfortable bedfellows. The antidote is small businesses. Less regulation. People and families with control over their lives. That's what we should be arguing for.
My views are possibly somewhat coloured by being an environmentalist. The environment being one area where it could be argued regulation is vital.
The big question tonight is that as the Whisleblower has stated categorically on Sky News that he e mailed and telephoned HMRC in 2008 who knew and what action was taken by HMRC then
Comments
What's the problem?
@politicshome: Tomorrow's Telegraph front page: 'Tory donor: I'll sue over Miliband's 'dodgy' slur' http://t.co/mgPlJzfQV5
ZERO POUNDS AND ZERO PENCE
has traded on Lab Majority at 20 or bigger on Betfair
there was £3 at 19.5 if that gets you excited
So you have all been talking about nothing happening for the last couple of hours or so
'Frankly it's wrong that smug plutocrats like Fink can make 3 million quid donations - one can only assume for the purchase of power and influence. Wrong, wrong, wrong again and still wrong.'
But when smug plutocrats were giving millions to New Labour it was absolutely fine.
Cut the crap.
Which means you, infact, ARE the PBHodges!!!!!!!
1. If you are a foreign citizen who has never lived in the UK (Stefano Pessina) you are avoiding UK tax. I imagine the Italian authorities must be furious that all those British people living in the UK are also avoiding Italian taxes.
2. If you go and work in another country and have a bank account there you are avoiding UK tax. Presumably all those foreigners coming here to work are also avoiding tax in their home countries.
3. If you are rich you must not donate to a political party. No doubt they will be repaying tomorrow all those loans they have received from rich people.
Labour are coming across as nasty and ignorant. Their rage against the Tories on tax - while it may be politically effective - seems much like Caliban, raging against the nastiness in their own party, given the way they sucked up to the rich when in power, their failure to take any steps at all to close loopholes and pursue tax evaders and their decision to hit the very poorest in society with the 100% increase in the tax rate paid by the lowest paid.
As ye sow , so shall ye reap.
You thought the Tories were not dodgy tax avoiders? Fink again
There has only been £6957 traded on Labour majority since the market opened.. and in reality its actually half that because each pound traded is doubled in the figures
"Betting on: Lab Majority
Total matched on this event: £45,438
Betting summary - Volume: £6,957
Last price matched: 16.00 "
Why did you edit my quote? I said no money had traded at bigger than 20... and it hasn't
But the country would go down the tubes at the same time.
It smacks to me of desperation.
Must have been a factor, no?
" A Labour spokesman said: "There are serious allegations in The Guardian about Lord Fink including his complex arrangements to minimise tax.
"He still has not justified the reasons why he made these arrangements. He should do so. "
Does this count as repeating the allegations outside of Parliamentary privilege?
January is the crossover month and February will be the pulling away month. Beware the Valentines Day Polling masacre for Labour.
BASILISCIOUS!!!!
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by one: CON 32%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%
How do you think this sort of behaviour will go down with some industry chief in a foreign country wondering whether or not to invest in Britain under a Labour government? Invest in Britain and risk the British Prime Minister accusing you of being a crook. Yes - that should go down well.
I'm not sure that is his intention.
2. Non Dom is no more than a mechanism for enabling tax avoidance. They don't have this BS in the US.
3. Labour have never been recipients of individual donations on the scale of the Tories.
I'm angry Cyclefree. I've never in my 49 years seen a regime that is as nepotistic, as sucky up to big corporate money, and as interested in furthering it's own agenda at the expense of supporting services that make a difference to ordinary people as this one. Public agencies have being neutered and cowed, corporate buddies are being given free rein. I'm no fan of Labour either but by God I like the Tories a damn sight less.
"1. If you are a foreign citizen who has never lived in the UK (Stefano Pessina) you are avoiding UK tax. I imagine the Italian authorities must be furious that all those British people living in the UK are also avoiding Italian taxes."
I think you are confusing your stories. He's the hedge fund owner of Boots who decided to lecture Ed on what his tax policy should be. Ed quite rightly in my opinion said if you want to pay UK tax fine otherwise f*ck of and discuss Swiss tax.
This is how this will play out. We will get days and days, if not weeks and weeks of people analysing the likes of Fink's financial affairs, who said what when, with barely a mention of the £2 million outstanding loan to Labour from a guy on the list plus the other names.
Another good example, Ashcroft, painted as the most evil non-dom tax dodging donor going, years of research trying to get him in some way, when Labour had plenty of their own, no interest.
It is as almost some PB lefties have forgotten that it was only a few years ago a serving Labour Prime Minister was questioned by the police over his donors and their donations, sorry loans.
Still he was no David Lloyd George. Liberals eh, worst out of the lot of them.
Fortunately for Labour my vote will neither matter in May (as I live in a safe seat), nor do they need to win in the sort of seat I live in, but even if you are totally correct about how bad this government is, if they tried pushing that line on me I'd switch off as I just cannot see them as such bogeymen. I think Labour will win anyway, but I certainly hope you are wrong if somehow Cameron gets back in!
Whether or not you like Pessina, he controls a very large UK employer, he has the right to say how he thinks a future Labour government will affect his businesses in the UK. And Labour would do well to listen for once.
The antidote to mega corporations isn't mega state institutions and mega regulations. They are actually very comfortable bedfellows. The antidote is small businesses. Less regulation. People and families with control over their lives. That's what we should be arguing for.
Night.
Labour has been on 29% in two out of the last three MORI polls...
Great entertainment though, only right here on PB.
tim was much better...
Fantastic special effects
No 2 has nothing to do with non-doms. It's about people who go abroad to work there and while there pay tax in that country and have bank accounts there. Lots of people do this.
But since you raised non-doms doubtless you are aware that the amount that has to be paid by those registering as non-doms has been increased by this government.
On no. 3 given the well know difficulties Labour had over cash for peerages, Bernie Ecclestone and the rest they are hardly in a position to throw stones. The only Prime Minister to be questioned under caution by the police is a Labour Prime Minister. I find that shameful and am surprised that Labour supporters on here don't feel the same or somehow think that with that background they have the moral high ground over the Tories.
Re your more general point, it was Labour who sucked up to corporates such as RBS and entered into a Faustian pact with big money. It was Labour who increased the tax on the poorest by 100%. Just ponder that for a moment. And Labour MPs cheered that when it was announced in the House because they were too stupid to understand what they had done. Or if they did understand they didn't care because they thought it stuffed the Tories. I was - and remain - pretty angry about that.
By contrast, the tax paid by those very same poorest has been reduced under this government.
And, frankly, I have no confidence that Labour would not reverse those changes were they to be in government.
Labour supporters do have a tendency to be remarkably blind about the motes in their own party's eyes. Labour's self-righteousness comes across as sickening, frankly.
No money has ever traded at those prices
So how am I wrong??
I get the impression you don't know what you're talking about
Also, getting a non dom tax avoider living in Monaco to head criticism of Labour's tax policy was indeed strange. Ed probably couldn't believe his luck. Quite rightly, he told him to f**k off !
Btw Casino - have you noticed how a Lab/SNP deal is becoming increasingly talked about .... perhaps not as "foolhardy" a bet as you suggested .... now a 6/1 shot, compared with my 25/1 bet.
Good trading bet for you. But it'll never happen.
Some things in life you just don't need to do, and can pride yourself on being a better class of human scumbag because you said 'no, thanks'. Those things include mixing/injecting crack and heroin snowballs in a central London phonebox, not cheating on your girlfriend with her friend while she's gone to the shops, stopping at pint number 4 every time and not going to see this film, even under pretense of 'xyz is making me go and see it'. I may not have managed the other three but god dammit, 25% win is better than 0% - I'm seeing this one through to the end.
Utterly disgraceful coverage.
Why, next you will be saying that cuts from a Labour government, on to those affected, will feel the same as Tory cuts!
You are the one who's confused. Pessina does not live in Switzerland.
Still if only those who pay UK tax are allowed to comment on British politics then there are going to be a lot of people living in the UK who won't be allowed to comment either, quite a few of them Labour supporters.
Is Labour's policy now "No representation without taxation."