Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The big difference between the UNITE and Lord Ascroft Halla

2

Comments

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    Artist said:

    Pong said:

    Depsite, apparently, everything being hopeless for labour, Dave is not any more likely to remain as PM.

    Ed4PM @ 2.3-2.37 is brilliant value.

    http://t.co/LTGlpZHrDw

    From that article

    "It is possible that overall support for Ed Miliband’s party has not declined at all in England and Wales in the past year."
    A drop of 15% in Scotland is a drop of just over 1% in national voting intention. So, Labour's support has certainly declined in England and Wales over the past 12 months.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    The LibDem announcements today on tax and spending are quite interesting:

    http://www.libdems.org.uk/danny-alexander-balancing-the-books-investing-in-key-public-services

    A couple of observations, which I think should influence one's view on how the LibDems might jump in any post-election haggling:

    - Danny has won the battle over Vince.

    Are you kidding? They seem to be going for something close to a 50:50 balance between spending cuts / tax rises in closing the fiscal deficit. That seems to be closer to Vince's thinking than Danny's (it might even be to the left of whatever Labour finally offer).
    Isn't it just £8bn of additional tax compared with Osborne, i.e. peanuts? (I'm ignoring the £6bn clampdown on tax avoidance/evasion, because every man and his dog says that).
    It's a bigger difference than we will see between Labour and Tories (and it's much closer to Labour). You might call this peanuts but then we are fighting a peanut election because that's about as far apart as the three main parties will be on fiscal issues. If you are looking for a radical alternative you can always vote Green ;)

  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Is the Green leader completely bonkers. ? I have only just seen this...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32aqb167NkE
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:



    Previously, the boy got sent home for bringing The Big Book of Knowledge to school. It contained a picture of a topless woman.

    I'd have thought knowing what a topless woman looks like is an important part of a boy's education
    I think it's a school that disapproves of knowledge.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025

    The LibDem announcements today on tax and spending are quite interesting:

    http://www.libdems.org.uk/danny-alexander-balancing-the-books-investing-in-key-public-services

    A couple of observations, which I think should influence one's view on how the LibDems might jump in any post-election haggling:

    - Danny has won the battle over Vince.

    - There's nothing there which would overly scare any Tory coalition horses; we really are talking about very minor differences of overall fiscal balance.

    - The LibDems are much more realistic than Labour.

    I have been saying this for some time. In fact Danny is in many ways more realistic that Osborne in recognising that tax increases are much more likely in the next Parliament than tax cuts.

    I simply do not believe that it will be possible to close the deficit whilst ring fencing health and Education (to the extent that Cameron has). Is a country disgusted and sickened by the inquiries into CSE really going to cut spending on Social services etc in half or is there going to be a demand that we actually start looking after children in our care?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    Anorak said:

    AndyJS said:

    Thought-provoking article by Allison Pearson:

    ..
    The issue I have with articles such as this is that they are deliberately (and unnecessarily) misleading.

    For example on FGM she correctly reports the number of cases reported (which is horrific) but fails to mention that overwhelmingly these crimes were committed overseas, often many years ago. Massive effort are being made in communities up and down the UK to stop young girls being taken abroad for cutting - these efforts are led by women within those communities.

    Similarly on Rotherham, the Casey report (which I've read) finds other issues apart from the ethnicity of the perpetrators to be important as well, not least the bullying attitude of senior Cllrs and the widespread misogyny. The girls involved were regarded are partly to blame, regrettably this victim blaming continues and is not restricted to any community.

    Finally on the slaughterhouse issue she appears to complain that the actions of the slaughtermen is tolerated, but then mentions that criminal prosecutions are likely. She can't have it both ways.

    By all means write a polemic, and there is plenty to be angry about, but at least allow your argument to have some rational base.

    (No comment on Tower Hamlets, politics in East London has been like that for generations regardless of the ethnicity of those involved....)

    Two points by way of riposte:-

    1. FGM came here because we let in people from cultures where this was widespread and did the square root of sod all to make it clear that this must not happen here. On the contrary, we explicitly said that all cultures were equally valid and it was quite unfair/racist/Western imperialist/whatever to suggest that this is not - or might not be - the case. The same could be said in relation to honour killings/forced marriages etc. The stupidity of allowing such people into the country coupled with the limp-wristed refusal to be judgmental when judgment was needed is what is being criticised.

    2. Tower Hamlets is an example of community politics of a virulent kind. We cannot allow our democracy to be degraded in this way. A worrying aspect (and one which she does not touch on) is the well-documented links between the Mayor and the Islamic Forum for Europe, an extremist organisation with links to groups in Bangladesh accused of terrorism. That is a toxic mix and the infiltration of schools/local councils etc of those with an extremist agenda facilitated by the presence of communities living here as if they were still in their vastly different countries of origin is one which should worry us all.

    There are commonalities here and one commonality is a refusal by the authorities to join the dots.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2015
    [duplicate]
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2015
    Neil said:

    It's a bigger difference than we will see between Labour and Tories (and it's much closer to Labour). You might call this peanuts but then we are fighting a peanut election because that's about as far apart as the three main parties will be on fiscal issues. If you are looking for a radical alternative you can always vote Green ;)

    Well, if anyone was able to give a vaguely coherent indication of what Labour actually plans, you might be right. All we have had is a long list of spending commitments and a couple of symbolic tax increases which would raise less than peanuts, plus a statement that they'll deal with the deficit even more slowly than the coalition parties propose.

    Of course, it's certainly the case that Labour supporters expecting them to be able to prevent 'the cuts' are living in cloud-cuckoo-land, and will be severely disappointed.

  • Sean_F said:

    Artist said:

    Pong said:

    Depsite, apparently, everything being hopeless for labour, Dave is not any more likely to remain as PM.

    Ed4PM @ 2.3-2.37 is brilliant value.

    http://t.co/LTGlpZHrDw

    From that article

    "It is possible that overall support for Ed Miliband’s party has not declined at all in England and Wales in the past year."
    A drop of 15% in Scotland is a drop of just over 1% in national voting intention. So, Labour's support has certainly declined in England and Wales over the past 12 months.
    Yes, that line is wishful thinking bollocks. However combining Ed4PM & Con Most Seats is looking like a decent play.
  • Alistair said:

    SNP 6-1 is priced the same as Labour 7-0

    shadsy has persuaded me to open my wallet and I've put a small bet on both 4-3 options. I don't see why they're so long priced.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2015
    DavidL said:

    I have been saying this for some time. In fact Danny is in many ways more realistic that Osborne in recognising that tax increases are much more likely in the next Parliament than tax cuts.

    I simply do not believe that it will be possible to close the deficit whilst ring fencing health and Education (to the extent that Cameron has). Is a country disgusted and sickened by the inquiries into CSE really going to cut spending on Social services etc in half or is there going to be a demand that we actually start looking after children in our care?

    I partly agree with that, but ring-fencing health is effectively a given because the demand and costs increase inexorably and health expenditure as a proportion of GDP will therefore continue to rise in all Western nation. The Tories are proposing a freeze (i.e. cut in real terms) in education, though.

    On your last point, it's not care for children but care for the elderly which is the expensive item.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    antifrank said:

    Alistair said:

    SNP 6-1 is priced the same as Labour 7-0

    shadsy has persuaded me to open my wallet and I've put a small bet on both 4-3 options. I don't see why they're so long priced.
    4-3 ? 6-1

    What market is this ?
  • antifrank said:

    Alistair said:

    SNP 6-1 is priced the same as Labour 7-0

    shadsy has persuaded me to open my wallet and I've put a small bet on both 4-3 options. I don't see why they're so long priced.
    Partly because everyone else will be backing 7-0 & 6-1 (either way), I suspect. But you're also aiming at a fairly narrow target - but if you think that Scottish voting intention may be more or less set [which I do] then you're probably close enough to that target to justify backing those prices.
  • Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    Alistair said:

    SNP 6-1 is priced the same as Labour 7-0

    shadsy has persuaded me to open my wallet and I've put a small bet on both 4-3 options. I don't see why they're so long priced.
    4-3 ? 6-1

    What market is this ?
    https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/563323843591565312
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Anorak said:

    AndyJS said:
    I can't imagine seeing that article anywhere in the mainstream media three years ago. I can also imagine the outrage and universal condemnation which would have followed, if it had been published then.

    Lets see what happens on the twitterverse and in the wider media this time...
    The issue I have with articles such as this is that they are deliberately (and unnecessarily) misleading.

    For example on FGM she correctly reports the number of cases reported (which is horrific) but fails to mention that overwhelmingly these crimes were committed overseas, often many years ago. Massive effort are being made in communities up and down the UK to stop young girls being taken abroad for cutting - these efforts are led by women within those communities.

    Similarly on Rotherham, the Casey report (which I've read) finds other issues apart from the ethnicity of the perpetrators to be important as well, not least the bullying attitude of senior Cllrs and the widespread misogyny. The girls involved were regarded are partly to blame, regrettably this victim blaming continues and is not restricted to any community.

    Finally on the slaughterhouse issue she appears to complain that the actions of the slaughtermen is tolerated, but then mentions that criminal prosecutions are likely. She can't have it both ways.

    By all means write a polemic, and there is plenty to be angry about, but at least allow your argument to have some rational base.

    (No comment on Tower Hamlets, politics in East London has been like that for generations regardless of the ethnicity of those involved....)

    What a load of self serving bollocks.
    From you.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Shucks, thought I was about to make the quickest £5k of my life there.
  • Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    Alistair said:

    SNP 6-1 is priced the same as Labour 7-0

    shadsy has persuaded me to open my wallet and I've put a small bet on both 4-3 options. I don't see why they're so long priced.
    4-3 ? 6-1

    What market is this ?
    Glasgow seat match-up between Labour and the SNP:


    Glasgow Seats Correct Score

    SNP 7-0 5/2
    SNP 6-1 3/1
    SNP 5-2 8/1
    SNP 4-3 16/1
    Lab 4-3 20/1
    Lab 5-2 12/1
    Lab 6-1 6/1
    Lab 7-0 3/1
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    It's a bigger difference than we will see between Labour and Tories (and it's much closer to Labour). You might call this peanuts but then we are fighting a peanut election because that's about as far apart as the three main parties will be on fiscal issues. If you are looking for a radical alternative you can always vote Green ;)

    Well, if anyone was able to give a vaguely coherent indication of what Labour actually plans, you might be right. All we have had is a long list of spending commitments and a couple of symbolic tax increases which would raise less than peanuts, plus a statement that they'll deal with the deficit even more slowly than the coalition parties propose.
    We know what their fiscal targets are and what the current position is. There are some gaps such as the share of spending cuts / tax rises but overall we can compare what they currently intend to do with the Tory and Lib Dem plans and they are not hugely different.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    antifrank said:

    Alistair said:

    SNP 6-1 is priced the same as Labour 7-0

    shadsy has persuaded me to open my wallet and I've put a small bet on both 4-3 options. I don't see why they're so long priced.
    I presume he's assuming an avalanche effect either way. I'm going to have a look at my Glasgow book and work put if there is a profitable hedge there.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    In the last couple of hours another £1,000 pledged to the Green party full slate fundraiser. 2 more candidates on ballot papers.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    Alistair said:

    SNP 6-1 is priced the same as Labour 7-0

    shadsy has persuaded me to open my wallet and I've put a small bet on both 4-3 options. I don't see why they're so long priced.
    4-3 ? 6-1

    What market is this ?
    Glasgow exact seat forecast.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Smarmeron said:

    @TheWatcher
    There is an onus on our armed forces to put everything out to tender these days, and has been so since before WW1.
    (It's why we nearly ran out of artillery shells in the early days of the conflict)

    We nearly ran out of artillery shells because we did not have the capacity to manufacture them in the huge numbers modern war required.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited February 2015
    Neil said:

    In the last couple of hours another £1,000 pledged to the Green party full slate fundraiser. 2 more candidates on ballot papers.

    I think I might start a "Labour but not Ed Miliband Party" and see if I can't raise £316k.
  • @Pulpstar FPT I'm not too confident about winning on that particular bet...
  • Neil said:

    Neil said:

    It's a bigger difference than we will see between Labour and Tories (and it's much closer to Labour). You might call this peanuts but then we are fighting a peanut election because that's about as far apart as the three main parties will be on fiscal issues. If you are looking for a radical alternative you can always vote Green ;)

    Well, if anyone was able to give a vaguely coherent indication of what Labour actually plans, you might be right. All we have had is a long list of spending commitments and a couple of symbolic tax increases which would raise less than peanuts, plus a statement that they'll deal with the deficit even more slowly than the coalition parties propose.
    We know what their fiscal targets are and what the current position is. There are some gaps such as the share of spending cuts / tax rises but overall we can compare what they currently intend to do with the Tory and Lib Dem plans and they are not hugely different.
    No, they are trying the same trick as Brown and Darling did last time - claiming a headline figure for deficit reduction, without the faintest indication of how they might achieve it. Indeed their main commitments have been measures to increase the deficit. Any fool can say 'We'll cut the deficit': the important question is: what would they actually do?

    Maybe this will all be made clear between now and the election, but I'm not holding my breath.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    Alistair said:

    SNP 6-1 is priced the same as Labour 7-0

    shadsy has persuaded me to open my wallet and I've put a small bet on both 4-3 options. I don't see why they're so long priced.
    4-3 ? 6-1

    What market is this ?
    https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/563323843591565312
    Is this a market anyone other than geeks and anoraks will notice though ?

    £15 on both for me - market suspended.
  • No, they are trying the same trick as Brown and Darling did last time - claiming a headline figure for deficit reduction, without the faintest indication of how they might achieve it. Indeed their main commitments have been measures to increase the deficit. Any fool can say 'We'll cut the deficit': the important question is: what would they actually do?

    Maybe this will all be made clear between now and the election, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Presumably we can look forward for the next 5 years to charts showing how Osborne is "doing worse than Balls promised"?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,194
    Danny A can say whatever he likes about how best to go about cutting the deficit - he'll be sitting in his back garden fighting off the midges in June, not working through a spending review at the Treasury.
  • No, they are trying the same trick as Brown and Darling did last time - claiming a headline figure for deficit reduction, without the faintest indication of how they might achieve it. Indeed their main commitments have been measures to increase the deficit. Any fool can say 'We'll cut the deficit': the important question is: what would they actually do?

    Maybe this will all be made clear between now and the election, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Presumably we can look forward for the next 5 years to charts showing how Osborne is "doing worse than Balls promised"?
    I hope so, since the alternative is not going to be palatable!
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    Alistair said:

    SNP 6-1 is priced the same as Labour 7-0

    shadsy has persuaded me to open my wallet and I've put a small bet on both 4-3 options. I don't see why they're so long priced.
    4-3 ? 6-1

    What market is this ?
    https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/563323843591565312
    Is this a market anyone other than geeks and anoraks will notice though ?

    £15 on both for me - market suspended.
    I suspect shadsy will lay the 7-0 SNP to SNP supporters at some point. But right now, nearly all the markets are for geeks and anoraks. The exceptions being the big-picture national ones.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    Alistair said:

    SNP 6-1 is priced the same as Labour 7-0

    shadsy has persuaded me to open my wallet and I've put a small bet on both 4-3 options. I don't see why they're so long priced.
    4-3 ? 6-1

    What market is this ?
    https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/563323843591565312
    Is this a market anyone other than geeks and anoraks will notice though ?

    £15 on both for me - market suspended.
    I haven't got my money on yet!

    Yours and antifranks accounts are probably flaged as sharp and they auto suspend markets you both bet on regardless of the amount.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Coral's bet has been declined by "trader"

    For everyone else

    http://sports.coral.co.uk/political-specials/uk/uk-politics/general-election-2015-match-bets-2476357.html

    7-1 Lib Dems beating SNP on seats !
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    OT

    Words fail me!!

    "Non-recyclable waste collected from homes and businesses in Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire is to be sent overseas.

    Ceredigion council said the move will save both authorities £350,000 a year and create 11 jobs on Pembroke Dock.

    The rubbish will be exported to Sweden where it will be used at a power station to generate heat and electricity.

    It will be processed at sites at Pembroke Port and Lampeter to remove recyclables before being shipped."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-31137556

    Why not burn it here and generate power and heat?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Schaeuble said he had told Greece's Yanis Varoufakis it was not realistic to make electoral promises that burdened other countries, and they had "agreed to disagree". ...

    Varoufakis ... "We didn't even agree to disagree."

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/05/us-eurozone-greece-idUSKBN0L81FH20150205

    Ouch!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/next-government

    Unfortunately Corals "Any other Government" is actually "Any other majority" for which 1000-1 is too skinny.

    I was hoping they'd say "Any other government" ><

    So close.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Financier said:

    OT

    Words fail me!!

    "Non-recyclable waste collected from homes and businesses in Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire is to be sent overseas.

    Ceredigion council said the move will save both authorities £350,000 a year and create 11 jobs on Pembroke Dock.

    The rubbish will be exported to Sweden where it will be used at a power station to generate heat and electricity.

    It will be processed at sites at Pembroke Port and Lampeter to remove recyclables before being shipped."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-31137556

    Why not burn it here and generate power and heat?

    Not economical I imagine. Sweden has a lot of waste powered electricity capacity, to the extent that they consume all of Sweden's burnable waste. So they buy from abroad.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    It's a bigger difference than we will see between Labour and Tories (and it's much closer to Labour). You might call this peanuts but then we are fighting a peanut election because that's about as far apart as the three main parties will be on fiscal issues. If you are looking for a radical alternative you can always vote Green ;)

    Well, if anyone was able to give a vaguely coherent indication of what Labour actually plans, you might be right. All we have had is a long list of spending commitments and a couple of symbolic tax increases which would raise less than peanuts, plus a statement that they'll deal with the deficit even more slowly than the coalition parties propose.
    We know what their fiscal targets are and what the current position is. There are some gaps such as the share of spending cuts / tax rises but overall we can compare what they currently intend to do with the Tory and Lib Dem plans and they are not hugely different.
    No, they are trying the same trick as Brown and Darling did last time - claiming a headline figure for deficit reduction, without the faintest indication of how they might achieve it. Indeed their main commitments have been measures to increase the deficit. Any fool can say 'We'll cut the deficit': the important question is: what would they actually do?

    Maybe this will all be made clear between now and the election, but I'm not holding my breath.
    Think of their plans like this: very similar to the Tory plans to follow the last Labour government's spending plans but with some slight tweaks (similar to the Tory's "sharing the proceeds of growth" plans but in the other direction).

    I know you think that Labour are uniquely deceptive and the Tories uniquely open but they're not really. They're the same as each other.

  • Smarmeron said:

    @TheWatcher
    There is an onus on our armed forces to put everything out to tender these days, and has been so since before WW1.
    (It's why we nearly ran out of artillery shells in the early days of the conflict)

    We nearly ran out of artillery shells because we did not have the capacity to manufacture them in the huge numbers modern war required.
    Just finished Hew Strachan's The First World War [excellent] and he makes that point.

    He makes it though as part of a wider observation that the war was fought with 20th Century technology but 19th Century ideas, administration and political structures. The Generals, of course, had little idea how to fight a 'modern' war and it showed.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    To give you an idea, Shadsy is 1-2 SNP, 13-8 Lib Dems in his 3 way market with UKIP right now.

    7-1 on a straight match bet is crackers
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Financier said:

    OT

    Words fail me!!

    "Non-recyclable waste collected from homes and businesses in Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire is to be sent overseas.

    Ceredigion council said the move will save both authorities £350,000 a year and create 11 jobs on Pembroke Dock.

    The rubbish will be exported to Sweden where it will be used at a power station to generate heat and electricity.

    It will be processed at sites at Pembroke Port and Lampeter to remove recyclables before being shipped."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-31137556

    Why not burn it here and generate power and heat?

    Costs of building a power generating incinerator, local opposition, greeny nonsense courtesy of Ed Miliband at DECC? Who knows.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    antifrank said:

    @Pulpstar FPT I'm not too confident about winning on that particular bet...

    Well it was only a pound a point, I've become a bit bolder since then...
  • Labour lead 1.2% in the "part-ELBOW" for the six polls so far this week.

    Oh fo heaven's sake, Sunil, when are we going to get crossover?
    Three months to save The NHS Crossover!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Greece is appealing to Germany on grounds of "honour" not to humiliate it over debts...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    From the poll, doubt SNP will gain Glasgow NE,

    And East, North, South look safe enough SNP to me

    SW and NW could both be tight

    Central probably stays SNP whatever the weather but if Labour put in enough work isn't outside reach.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2015
    Neil said:

    Think of their plans like this: very similar to the Tory plans to follow the last Labour government's spending plans but with some slight tweaks (similar to the Tory's "sharing the proceeds of growth" plans but in the other direction).

    I know you think that Labour are uniquely deceptive and the Tories uniquely open but they're not really. They're the same as each other.

    But the example you give is completely different. Yes, prior to the crisis, the Conservatives were proposing only a gradual shift away from Labour's plans: they made that clear.

    That's completely different from the current position, where Labour (on some days of the week at least) are claiming that the Tory plans amount to ideologically motivated, unnecessary and draconian cuts which would devastate public services, whilst in their headline figures apparently proposing to do much the same, and in their specific policy announcements going in the opposite direction to their headline figures.

    To put it another way: I understand what the LibDems propose to do. It's Osborne with a bit more tax and and a bit more spending. Fair enough, that's coherent. Labour? Anyone know?
  • One for Nighthawks:

    Surgeons amputate Royal Marine's leg, Liverpool FC tattoo now reads 'You'll never walk' http://dailym.ai/1v1fQro
  • Pulpstar said:

    From the poll, doubt SNP will gain Glasgow NE,

    And East, North, South look safe enough SNP to me

    SW and NW could both be tight

    Central probably stays SNP whatever the weather but if Labour put in enough work isn't outside reach.

    Bear in mind that the polls may well understate the SNP's position, because it was compiled by reference to respondents' recall of their vote in 2010 (some respondents will be confused by the 2011 election, where far more voters opted for the SNP).

    But that looks like an accurate enough summary of the way in which the seats might swing back to Labour.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    Think of their plans like this: very similar to the Tory plans to follow the last Labour government's spending plans but with some slight tweaks (similar to the Tory's "sharing the proceeds of growth" plans but in the other direction).

    I know you think that Labour are uniquely deceptive and the Tories uniquely open but they're not really. They're the same as each other.

    But the example you give is completely different. Yes, prior to the crisis, the Conservatives were proposing only a gradual shift away from Labour's plans: they made that clear.

    That's completely different from the current position, where Labour (on some days of the week at least) are claiming that the Tory plans amount to idelogically motivated, unnecessary and draconian cuts which would devastate public services, whilst in their headline figures apparently proposing to do much the same, and in their specific policy announcements going in the opposite direction to their headline figures.
    You seem to totally understand politics when the Tories do it and then react in total disbelief and confusion when Labour do it. I dont know how I can help you with this selectivity but all will reveal itself (or not) after May.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2015
    Neil said:

    You seem to totally understand politics when the Tories do it and then react in total disbelief and confusion when Labour do it. I dont know how I can help you with this selectivity but all will reveal itself (or not) after May.

    Well, if you are claiming that Labour are being deliberately dishonest to their supporters and don't actually intend to do half the things they've said they'll do, and do intend broadly to follow Osborne's path, then, yes, that would be reassuring.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    From the poll, doubt SNP will gain Glasgow NE,

    And East, North, South look safe enough SNP to me

    SW and NW could both be tight

    Central probably stays SNP whatever the weather but if Labour put in enough work isn't outside reach.

    Bear in mind that the polls may well understate the SNP's position, because it was compiled by reference to respondents' recall of their vote in 2010 (some respondents will be confused by the 2011 election, where far more voters opted for the SNP).

    But that looks like an accurate enough summary of the way in which the seats might swing back to Labour.
    Thanks,

    I'll let my big fat Cumbernauld bet ride then, and won't hedge out of the 3-1 £50 I have on Coatbridge.

    Coatbridge coming in would be the icing on the cake.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Coral's bet has been declined by "trader"

    For everyone else

    http://sports.coral.co.uk/political-specials/uk/uk-politics/general-election-2015-match-bets-2476357.html

    7-1 Lib Dems beating SNP on seats !

    Thanks for that, I just got on before they trimmed the odds to 5/1, which still looks like value.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025

    DavidL said:

    I have been saying this for some time. In fact Danny is in many ways more realistic that Osborne in recognising that tax increases are much more likely in the next Parliament than tax cuts.

    I simply do not believe that it will be possible to close the deficit whilst ring fencing health and Education (to the extent that Cameron has). Is a country disgusted and sickened by the inquiries into CSE really going to cut spending on Social services etc in half or is there going to be a demand that we actually start looking after children in our care?

    I partly agree with that, but ring-fencing health is effectively a given because the demand and costs increase inexorably and health expenditure as a proportion of GDP will therefore continue to rise in all Western nation. The Tories are proposing a freeze (i.e. cut in real terms) in education, though.

    On your last point, it's not care for children but care for the elderly which is the expensive item.
    Well it is at the moment but that is because we have chosen to neglect children in care and to do almost nothing for them when they come out of care at 18. This cannot continue.

    On education the real spend per pupil

    I completely agree with the removal of fripperies from higher rate tax paying pensioners too. It is completely immoral to protect those whilst capping the benefits of people who have been stupid enough to have too many children. The cap is a good policy but to make it harsher (rather than simply maintaining it at the same level gradually making it harsher in real terms) it seems to me that the tories are picking on the weak and people they frankly disapprove of.

    Clearly cuts have to be made on benefits: even the Lib Dems have £4bn of cuts, but the question are what are our priorities and I personally have more sympathy with the Lib Dem position on this than Osborne's.
  • A few football bets for the remainder of the season that look reasonable, A few boys on here will be pleased to see number nine, and even as a Chelsea fan I think that is great value.

    I am on number three at 7/1
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    Guess who are going to make (manufacture) the new battle helmets for the British army................

    ................the Israelis: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2933921/British-soldiers-equipped-state-art-battle-helmets-Stormtrooper-look.html

    Is your point that they're excellent at manufacturing military hardware, which they are, or something else?

    Regardless, they're actually being made in Canada, but the contracted supplier happens to be an Israeli company.
    No. My point, for the obtuse is, why on earth can't they manufacture the helmets in Britain?
    Because better ones are obtainable elsewhere.

    The MoD has hosed billions over the years, buying overpriced and poorly engineered UK built kit in procurement projects that over ran by years, with nothing delivered, when they could have bought off the shelf for less, from overseas.

    It's good to see that someone's got the message, that British isn't necessarily best.
    Plus the US Army have been testing the same helmet - at least a similar helmet manufactured by the same company. These look to be specific helmets designed for specific front line service not standard issue. As such with a limited production run it would be very expensive to duplicate production.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    A few football bets for the remainder of the season that look reasonable, A few boys on here will be pleased to see number nine, and even as a Chelsea fan I think that is great value.

    I am on number three at 7/1

    Let me guess Man City are too long for the title ?
  • Pulpstar said:

    A few football bets for the remainder of the season that look reasonable, A few boys on here will be pleased to see number nine, and even as a Chelsea fan I think that is great value.

    I am on number three at 7/1

    Let me guess Man City are too long for the title ?
    Spurs to win the League Cup at 12/5
  • On topic, it has to be recognised that there have now been a succession of polls in Sheffield Hallam which don't exactly show Nick Clegg to be in a very good place. There comes a point where you have to acknowledge he's in a real dogfight just to get back to Parliament.

    If he doesn't and as seems almost certain now Danny Alexander doesn't, the dynamics of any post-election negotiations over the flavour of the next government are going to be radically different.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Oh If only their "Any other Government majority" market had not had the word "majority" in it, they are so clueless I reckon it was Evens whether or not it had the word majority, 1000-1 too !
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    And who can forget Preston North, 1979?

    R.J. Atkins (Con) beating R.H. Atkins (Lab) by 29 votes...

    I think there was a seat in Wales in the 1950s where all three candidates were Davies.

    Wiki has a useful note: "Ron Atkins (Labour) and Robert Atkins (Con) are two different people."
    Bit late now for Preston North...
    Ron Atkinson (UKIP) ?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    From the poll, doubt SNP will gain Glasgow NE,

    And East, North, South look safe enough SNP to me

    SW and NW could both be tight

    Central probably stays SNP whatever the weather but if Labour put in enough work isn't outside reach.

    Bear in mind that the polls may well understate the SNP's position, because it was compiled by reference to respondents' recall of their vote in 2010 (some respondents will be confused by the 2011 election, where far more voters opted for the SNP).

    But that looks like an accurate enough summary of the way in which the seats might swing back to Labour.
    Thanks,

    I'll let my big fat Cumbernauld bet ride then, and won't hedge out of the 3-1 £50 I have on Coatbridge.

    Coatbridge coming in would be the icing on the cake.
    This was 11/1 yesterday wasn't it?

    Backed Rother Valley again this morning at 8/1 w Hills..
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    antifrank said:

    On topic, it has to be recognised that there have now been a succession of polls in Sheffield Hallam which don't exactly show Nick Clegg to be in a very good place. There comes a point where you have to acknowledge he's in a real dogfight just to get back to Parliament.

    If he doesn't and as seems almost certain now Danny Alexander doesn't, the dynamics of any post-election negotiations over the flavour of the next government are going to be radically different.

    I think that is right. The remaining Lib Dems, maybe 30, will have a different profile and characteristics from the current party whether Clegg survives or not. Whether than remnant swings left or right is hard to say at this stage when it is far from clear who the survivors will be.

    One thing we can be very sure of is that even proportionately there will be significantly fewer Scots. Will they be more open to EVEL as a result?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,632
    antifrank said:

    On topic, it has to be recognised that there have now been a succession of polls in Sheffield Hallam which don't exactly show Nick Clegg to be in a very good place. There comes a point where you have to acknowledge he's in a real dogfight just to get back to Parliament.

    If he doesn't and as seems almost certain now Danny Alexander doesn't, the dynamics of any post-election negotiations over the flavour of the next government are going to be radically different.

    Only if other LibDems are elected. If there are no LibDem MPs, then there will be no negotiations with them.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,194
    For any fans of maple syrup - the Tories are edging ahead in Canadian opinion polls. End of the Trudeaugasm?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_42nd_Canadian_federal_election#mediaviewer/File:Canada_polling_since_2011_election.png
  • antifrank said:

    On topic, it has to be recognised that there have now been a succession of polls in Sheffield Hallam which don't exactly show Nick Clegg to be in a very good place. There comes a point where you have to acknowledge he's in a real dogfight just to get back to Parliament.

    If he doesn't and as seems almost certain now Danny Alexander doesn't, the dynamics of any post-election negotiations over the flavour of the next government are going to be radically different.

    You mean Cable and Farron will simply deliver the LibDem rump to Labour on a plate?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    From the poll, doubt SNP will gain Glasgow NE,

    And East, North, South look safe enough SNP to me

    SW and NW could both be tight

    Central probably stays SNP whatever the weather but if Labour put in enough work isn't outside reach.

    Bear in mind that the polls may well understate the SNP's position, because it was compiled by reference to respondents' recall of their vote in 2010 (some respondents will be confused by the 2011 election, where far more voters opted for the SNP).

    But that looks like an accurate enough summary of the way in which the seats might swing back to Labour.
    Thanks,

    I'll let my big fat Cumbernauld bet ride then, and won't hedge out of the 3-1 £50 I have on Coatbridge.

    Coatbridge coming in would be the icing on the cake.
    This was 11/1 yesterday wasn't it?

    Backed Rother Valley again this morning at 8/1 w Hills..
    Coatbridge was 3-1, Cumbernauld 5-4 when the Ashcroft poll got leaked (For the SNP)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,194

    antifrank said:

    On topic, it has to be recognised that there have now been a succession of polls in Sheffield Hallam which don't exactly show Nick Clegg to be in a very good place. There comes a point where you have to acknowledge he's in a real dogfight just to get back to Parliament.

    If he doesn't and as seems almost certain now Danny Alexander doesn't, the dynamics of any post-election negotiations over the flavour of the next government are going to be radically different.

    You mean Cable and Farron will simply deliver the LibDem rump to Labour on a plate?
    I don't think Davey would accept that without a fight.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    taffys said:

    But easier than tackling the real problem.

    The problem is too big. Same as rape of young girls. The criminality is so large we would need internment camps to properly punish all the guilty parties.

    The problem is large because we have allowed it to grow. And there are things that could be done beyond simply passing a law and wringing our hands (and the work already being done by womens' groups).

    1. Reintroduce regular inspections by school nurses of girls most at risk.
    2. On discovering a case of FGM, that girl and all other girls in the family to be made wards of court so that no decisions can be made without the court's involvement.
    3. Make this a strict liability offence i.e. the parents are guilty if their daughter suffers FGM. This does not happen without the parents knowing and wanting it. That way you don't have all the issues of getting a child to give evidence against her parents etc. The level of sanction will be mitigated to the extent the parents co-operate by giving details of who else was involved e.g. any doctors or others involved.
    4. Make it a legal duty on doctors/nurses/health visitors etc to report it to the authorities.

    You need a concerted campaign at all sort of levels to get to grips with the problem. At the moment it can easily be done, the chances of prosecution - let alone conviction - are vanishingly small. If parents realised that (a) it would be uncovered; and (b) they lose control of their children it might make some think again.




  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,632
    Cyclefree said:

    taffys said:

    But easier than tackling the real problem.

    The problem is too big. Same as rape of young girls. The criminality is so large we would need internment camps to properly punish all the guilty parties.

    The problem is large because we have allowed it to grow. And there are things that could be done beyond simply passing a law and wringing our hands (and the work already being done by womens' groups).

    1. Reintroduce regular inspections by school nurses of girls most at risk.
    2. On discovering a case of FGM, that girl and all other girls in the family to be made wards of court so that no decisions can be made without the court's involvement.
    3. Make this a strict liability offence i.e. the parents are guilty if their daughter suffers FGM. This does not happen without the parents knowing and wanting it. That way you don't have all the issues of getting a child to give evidence against her parents etc. The level of sanction will be mitigated to the extent the parents co-operate by giving details of who else was involved e.g. any doctors or others involved.
    4. Make it a legal duty on doctors/nurses/health visitors etc to report it to the authorities.

    You need a concerted campaign at all sort of levels to get to grips with the problem. At the moment it can easily be done, the chances of prosecution - let alone conviction - are vanishingly small. If parents realised that (a) it would be uncovered; and (b) they lose control of their children it might make some think again.

    Making it a requirement for doctors to report cases of FGM would solve most of the reporting problem. Also, I think you need to assume that parents are accessories to the crime of ABH.
  • DavidL said:

    antifrank said:

    On topic, it has to be recognised that there have now been a succession of polls in Sheffield Hallam which don't exactly show Nick Clegg to be in a very good place. There comes a point where you have to acknowledge he's in a real dogfight just to get back to Parliament.

    If he doesn't and as seems almost certain now Danny Alexander doesn't, the dynamics of any post-election negotiations over the flavour of the next government are going to be radically different.

    I think that is right. The remaining Lib Dems, maybe 30, will have a different profile and characteristics from the current party whether Clegg survives or not. Whether than remnant swings left or right is hard to say at this stage when it is far from clear who the survivors will be.

    One thing we can be very sure of is that even proportionately there will be significantly fewer Scots. Will they be more open to EVEL as a result?
    I feel a post coming on. Who the post-May Lib Dem MPs are is going to be vital to how negotiations for the next government pan out.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I have been saying this for some time. In fact Danny is in many ways more realistic that Osborne in recognising that tax increases are much more likely in the next Parliament than tax cuts.

    I simply do not believe that it will be possible to close the deficit whilst ring fencing health and Education (to the extent that Cameron has). Is a country disgusted and sickened by the inquiries into CSE really going to cut spending on Social services etc in half or is there going to be a demand that we actually start looking after children in our care?

    I partly agree with that, but ring-fencing health is effectively a given because the demand and costs increase inexorably and health expenditure as a proportion of GDP will therefore continue to rise in all Western nation. The Tories are proposing a freeze (i.e. cut in real terms) in education, though.

    On your last point, it's not care for children but care for the elderly which is the expensive item.
    Well it is at the moment but that is because we have chosen to neglect children in care and to do almost nothing for them when they come out of care at 18. This cannot continue.

    On education the real spend per pupil

    I completely agree with the removal of fripperies from higher rate tax paying pensioners too. It is completely immoral to protect those whilst capping the benefits of people who have been stupid enough to have too many children. The cap is a good policy but to make it harsher (rather than simply maintaining it at the same level gradually making it harsher in real terms) it seems to me that the tories are picking on the weak and people they frankly disapprove of.
    Clearly cuts have to be made on benefits: even the Lib Dems have £4bn of cuts, but the question are what are our priorities and I personally have more sympathy with the Lib Dem position on this than Osborne's.
    Are you really upset so much over 'fripperies' for better off pensioners?
    Pensioners paying the higher rate tax on their pensions are relatively few compared to everyone else. Lest we forget - that is tax they are paying. Geddit? Tax. It makes me wonder why you want to bother to pay them the state pension anyway.
    These fripperies include bus passes which need to be applied for. What else? Fuel allowance? Does Lord Sugar claim his fuel allowance? On top of this the age for the state pension is going up anyway. Just how much money is going to be saved after administration when we start discrimination against supposedly wealthy people over 68?
    How is this going to change Britain?
  • A few football bets for the remainder of the season that look reasonable, A few boys on here will be pleased to see number nine, and even as a Chelsea fan I think that is great value.

    I am on number three at 7/1

    Where do |I find these bets?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,194
    Meanwhile on Tyneside...

    "A huge investigation into sexual crimes against women and girls as young as 13 has resulted in 20 men being charged."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-31151445
  • A few football bets for the remainder of the season that look reasonable, A few boys on here will be pleased to see number nine, and even as a Chelsea fan I think that is great value.

    I am on number three at 7/1

    Where do |I find these bets?
    Sorry Peter I forgot to post the link!

    http://www.football365.com/topical-top-10/9698048/Stoke-To-Win-Cup-And-Other-Big-Bets...

    I've got Koeman at 8/1 for LMA of the Year, but they are right looking at the past winners it's an old pals act, might hedge Fat Sam
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    @Pulpstar FPT I'm not too confident about winning on that particular bet...

    Well it was only a pound a point, I've become a bit bolder since then...
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    From the poll, doubt SNP will gain Glasgow NE,

    And East, North, South look safe enough SNP to me

    SW and NW could both be tight

    Central probably stays SNP whatever the weather but if Labour put in enough work isn't outside reach.

    Bear in mind that the polls may well understate the SNP's position, because it was compiled by reference to respondents' recall of their vote in 2010 (some respondents will be confused by the 2011 election, where far more voters opted for the SNP).

    But that looks like an accurate enough summary of the way in which the seats might swing back to Labour.
    Thanks,

    I'll let my big fat Cumbernauld bet ride then, and won't hedge out of the 3-1 £50 I have on Coatbridge.

    Coatbridge coming in would be the icing on the cake.
    This was 11/1 yesterday wasn't it?

    Backed Rother Valley again this morning at 8/1 w Hills..
    Coatbridge was 3-1, Cumbernauld 5-4 when the Ashcroft poll got leaked (For the SNP)
    Sorry , I meant the Lib Dems beating the SNP was 11/1 yesterday I think w Coral
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    antifrank said:

    On topic, it has to be recognised that there have now been a succession of polls in Sheffield Hallam which don't exactly show Nick Clegg to be in a very good place. There comes a point where you have to acknowledge he's in a real dogfight just to get back to Parliament.

    If he doesn't and as seems almost certain now Danny Alexander doesn't, the dynamics of any post-election negotiations over the flavour of the next government are going to be radically different.

    You mean Cable and Farron will simply deliver the LibDem rump to Labour on a plate?
    Is Cable going to survive the election?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    About a year ago it was put to Lynne Featherstone on Newsnight that at-risk girls should be checked by doctors to establish whether they had been subjected to FGM, as they do in France. Her response was to say something like "we couldn't possibly do that". The problem is if that's the only way to tackle the problem it has to be done no matter how objectionable some people may find it. If you simply ask people, of course they're going to deny it if they know they're going to be in serious trouble.
  • The rightwing press are really running with this war between Labour and business:

    "One of Labour’s most prominent donors has described the memory lapses of Ed Miliband and Ed Balls as very embarrassing and raised concerns that such gaffes could reinforce the perception that the party cannot be trusted on the economy...

    Noon, who is well connected among the donor community, also appears to reflect many other concerns from business people who gave to the party before the 2010 election. Four other donors, speaking to the Guardian anonymously, have said they will not be donating before this election because Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are hostile to business and weak on the economy."

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/05/labour-donor-gulam-noon-miliband-balls-embarrassing-gaffes-anti-business
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    @Pulpstar FPT I'm not too confident about winning on that particular bet...

    Well it was only a pound a point, I've become a bit bolder since then...
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    From the poll, doubt SNP will gain Glasgow NE,

    And East, North, South look safe enough SNP to me

    SW and NW could both be tight

    Central probably stays SNP whatever the weather but if Labour put in enough work isn't outside reach.

    Bear in mind that the polls may well understate the SNP's position, because it was compiled by reference to respondents' recall of their vote in 2010 (some respondents will be confused by the 2011 election, where far more voters opted for the SNP).

    But that looks like an accurate enough summary of the way in which the seats might swing back to Labour.
    Thanks,

    I'll let my big fat Cumbernauld bet ride then, and won't hedge out of the 3-1 £50 I have on Coatbridge.

    Coatbridge coming in would be the icing on the cake.
    This was 11/1 yesterday wasn't it?

    Backed Rother Valley again this morning at 8/1 w Hills..
    Coatbridge was 3-1, Cumbernauld 5-4 when the Ashcroft poll got leaked (For the SNP)
    Sorry , I meant the Lib Dems beating the SNP was 11/1 yesterday I think w Coral
    Hah yes, I got on at 10s
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Are you really upset so much over 'fripperies' for better off pensioners?
    Pensioners paying the higher rate tax on their pensions are relatively few compared to everyone else. Lest we forget - that is tax they are paying. Geddit? Tax. It makes me wonder why you want to bother to pay them the state pension anyway.
    These fripperies include bus passes which need to be applied for. What else? Fuel allowance? Does Lord Sugar claim his fuel allowance? On top of this the age for the state pension is going up anyway. Just how much money is going to be saved after administration when we start discrimination against supposedly wealthy people over 68?
    How is this going to change Britain?

    The problem with pensions is probably unresolvable by any government. The inevitability of the UK's bankruptcy over pensions is probably the most important factor in my determination to get Scotland out the UK as soon as possible.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    edited February 2015

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:


    IOn your last point, it's not care for children but care for the elderly which is the expensive item.

    Well it is at the moment but that is because we have chosen to neglect children in care and to do almost nothing for them when they come out of care at 18. This cannot continue.

    Are you really upset so much over 'fripperies' for better off pensioners?
    Pensioners paying the higher rate tax on their pensions are relatively few compared to everyone else. Lest we forget - that is tax they are paying. Geddit? Tax. It makes me wonder why you want to bother to pay them the state pension anyway.
    These fripperies include bus passes which need to be applied for. What else? Fuel allowance? Does Lord Sugar claim his fuel allowance? On top of this the age for the state pension is going up anyway. Just how much money is going to be saved after administration when we start discrimination against supposedly wealthy people over 68?
    How is this going to change Britain?Are you really upset so much over 'fripperies' for better off pensioners?
    Pensioners paying the higher rate tax on their pensions are relatively few compared to everyone else. Lest we forget - that is tax they are paying. Geddit? Tax. It makes me wonder why you want to bother to pay them the state pension anyway.
    These fripperies include bus passes which need to be applied for. What else? Fuel allowance? Does Lord Sugar claim his fuel allowance? On top of this the age for the state pension is going up anyway. Just how much money is going to be saved after administration when we start discrimination against supposedly wealthy people over 68?
    How is this going to change Britain
    Well the really big one is higher rate pension tax relief for pensioners which costs £7bn a year. There is also the free TV licences etc.

    The biggest problem I can see is the triple lock on pensions. When inflation is 0.5% we simply cannot afford to increase pensions by 2.5% a year. Whoever wins the election is going to have to break another unaffordable political promise.

    The idea of poor pensioners struggling to keep warm and fed is something that belongs in the history books, and rightly so. There are significant numbers of pensioners, particularly those with public sector or final salary pensions, who are very comfortable. I don't have a problem with that but I do have a problem with them being protected to the extent that they are when times are hard and we are as a country still living so far beyond our means.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Glitter guilty on all charges: facing Life in jail...
  • Mr. Dair, that does rather ignore the rising demographic problems which also affect Scotland, the drop in bilateral trade which will harm Scotland, and the financial sector heading south.
  • " ... Labour (on some days of the week at least) are claiming that the Tory plans amount to ideologically motivated, unnecessary and draconian cuts which would devastate public services, whilst in their headline figures apparently proposing to do much the same, but in their specific policy announcements are going in the opposite direction to their headline figures."

    Well, when you put it like that.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    antifrank said:

    The rightwing press are really running with this war between Labour and business:

    "One of Labour’s most prominent donors has described the memory lapses of Ed Miliband and Ed Balls as very embarrassing and raised concerns that such gaffes could reinforce the perception that the party cannot be trusted on the economy...

    Noon, who is well connected among the donor community, also appears to reflect many other concerns from business people who gave to the party before the 2010 election. Four other donors, speaking to the Guardian anonymously, have said they will not be donating before this election because Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are hostile to business and weak on the economy."

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/05/labour-donor-gulam-noon-miliband-balls-embarrassing-gaffes-anti-business

    Nick Robinson & Andrew Neil (BBC but not lefties) pointed out yesterday that putting himself up as the man who sides against big business isn't accidental from Miliband

    He has form (Murdoch and energy companies)

    Amazes me how many people on here truly think that he is some harmless nerdy geek who doesn't know what he is doing from one day to the next. How much more ruthless, political and conniving do you have to be to knife your brothers professional career?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited February 2015

    Mr. Dair, that does rather ignore the rising demographic problems which also affect Scotland, the drop in bilateral trade which will harm Scotland, and the financial sector heading south.

    There are a few advantages Scotland would have. Yes the timebomb is ticking but it starts from a far, far better position with average LE about 4 years lower. This head start when other countries start to go bankrupt will allow some acceptance by the public to change which no politician could currently deliver (or even mention).
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    AndyJS said:

    About a year ago it was put to Lynne Featherstone on Newsnight that at-risk girls should be checked by doctors to establish whether they had been subjected to FGM, as they do in France. Her response was to say something like "we couldn't possibly do that". The problem is if that's the only way to tackle the problem it has to be done no matter how objectionable some people may find it. If you simply ask people, of course they're going to deny it if they know they're going to be in serious trouble.

    Yes - that sort of feeble response is why we have the problem. We should just do it. And face down those who object. In my book people who do - or allow this to be done - to their daughters are child abusers. I have no interest in their objections. I would rather they learnt why it must not be done and ceased of their own accord but if that does not work then we must take sterner measures.

    I don't know how someone like that - who is concerned with the relative triviality of girls oppressed by size zero models in magazines - can ignore the immeasurable suffering that these girls endure, not just at the time, but for the rest of their lives. How can someone who claims to be concerned about women, who has the chance to do something about it in politics, sleep at night?
  • RodCrosby said:

    Glitter guilty on all charges: facing Life in jail...

    Good, now for the rest of them...........
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    Another 20 charged: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-31151445

    The government is accused of doing nothing but the courts are going to grind to a halt at this rate.
  • Cyclefree said:

    AndyJS said:

    About a year ago it was put to Lynne Featherstone on Newsnight that at-risk girls should be checked by doctors to establish whether they had been subjected to FGM, as they do in France. Her response was to say something like "we couldn't possibly do that". The problem is if that's the only way to tackle the problem it has to be done no matter how objectionable some people may find it. If you simply ask people, of course they're going to deny it if they know they're going to be in serious trouble.

    Yes - that sort of feeble response is why we have the problem. We should just do it. And face down those who object. In my book people who do - or allow this to be done - to their daughters are child abusers. I have no interest in their objections. I would rather they learnt why it must not be done and ceased of their own accord but if that does not work then we must take sterner measures.

    I don't know how someone like that - who is concerned with the relative triviality of girls oppressed by size zero models in magazines - can ignore the immeasurable suffering that these girls endure, not just at the time, but for the rest of their lives. How can someone who claims to be concerned about women, who has the chance to do something about it in politics, sleep at night?
    Looks like you've got completely the wrong end of the stick.
    http://www.lynnefeatherstone.org/2014/02/join-my-campaign-to-end-fgm-in-a-generation.htm
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2015
    RodCrosby said:

    Glitter guilty on all charges: facing Life in jail...

    Rock & Roll!

    Looks like he really was the leader after all
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,632
    Financier said:
    Those numbers don't match the OECD or World Bank debt numbers at all. They show corporate and personal deleveraging in Ireland of 40% of GDP, of 30% in the UK, and 25% in Spain.

    I would also caution about including financial debt in there. If you borrow from a bank, and the bank borrows from the money markets to fund that, then your debt gets counted twice: once between you and the bank, and then once between the bank and its creditors. Ultimately though, there is only one set of 'work' that needs to be done to satisfy the debt: yours.
  • Dair said:

    Mr. Dair, that does rather ignore the rising demographic problems which also affect Scotland, the drop in bilateral trade which will harm Scotland, and the financial sector heading south.

    a far, far better position with average LE about 4 years lower.
    That's one way of looking at it........
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    Mr. Dair, that does rather ignore the rising demographic problems which also affect Scotland, the drop in bilateral trade which will harm Scotland, and the financial sector heading south.

    a far, far better position with average LE about 4 years lower.
    That's one way of looking at it........
    I guess your response means you've not been reading the posts about FGM and Rotherham.
  • antifrank said:

    On topic, it has to be recognised that there have now been a succession of polls in Sheffield Hallam which don't exactly show Nick Clegg to be in a very good place. There comes a point where you have to acknowledge he's in a real dogfight just to get back to Parliament.

    If he doesn't and as seems almost certain now Danny Alexander doesn't, the dynamics of any post-election negotiations over the flavour of the next government are going to be radically different.

    Fair point. I think Clegg has already announced his negotiation team for 2015: Danny Alexander, Steve Webb, Sal Brinton, Lynne Featherstone and David Laws.

    As long as Clegg is leader I'm not sure if matters too much whether they're in the House or not.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    RodCrosby said:

    Glitter guilty on all charges: facing Life in jail...

    Another evil pervert immigrant jailed !
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Yes - that sort of feeble response is why we have the problem.

    But you are looking at a 10-years ago solution to the problem. There are 60,000 FGM kids, right? social services would have a meltdown.

    How many Perps are there in this Asian taxi driver rape scandal?

    Our prison population might have to double. Let alone the court/police/.probation time
This discussion has been closed.