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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Real worrying thing for LAB about the Ashcroft Scottish pol

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  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    Meanwhile, some scaremongering crap from America:

    Rand Paul was more forthright. “The state doesn’t own your children,” he said, adding that he had deliberately spread out the vaccinations of his own children so they didn’t receive too many at one time. He said he had “heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines”. But he offered no details.

    [this one is a couple of days old - may already have been discussed]

    The point he's making - rightly or wrongly - is that parents should be allowed to make up their own minds.

    The correlation, causation mix up is genuinely scary, mind.
    Do a bit of research, you might end up a lot less certain.
    Out of interest, do you believe Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?
    Listen, I'm not saying [totally off-the-wall nutso conspiracy theory], I'm just saying there are a lot of unanswered questions.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    In case of a Labour recovery am on Dundee West at 33-1 there for them.

    Where did you find that? Ladbrokes are quoting 5/1 on Labour for Dundee West.
    Clueless Corals
    Thanks. Now 7/2 - worse than Ladbrokes!
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    It's not enough to say we will not be PC, because it is not PC that causes abuse and never has been.

    An excellent analysis, Southam, Fury at the perps is useless. The key is to isolate those in authority who allowed this to happen and find out why they allowed it to happen
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    rcs1000 said:

    surbiton said:

    Financier said:

    So looking at the Ladbroke's odds for each seat, at present:

    SNP: 41 (+35)
    LAB: 14 (-27)
    LD: 3 (-8)
    CONS: 1 (0)

    Will the GE be +/- 10% of this?

    Finally, the constituency odds are lining up with Scotland UNS swings. Which is the third Lib Dem seat ? Roxburgh ?
    Presumably that or Lord Thurso's
    Save the Viscount !! :smile:

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    Meanwhile, some scaremongering crap from America:

    Rand Paul was more forthright. “The state doesn’t own your children,” he said, adding that he had deliberately spread out the vaccinations of his own children so they didn’t receive too many at one time. He said he had “heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines”. But he offered no details.

    [this one is a couple of days old - may already have been discussed]

    The point he's making - rightly or wrongly - is that parents should be allowed to make up their own minds.

    The correlation, causation mix up is genuinely scary, mind.
    Do a bit of research, you might end up a lot less certain.
    Out of interest, do you believe Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?
    Listen, I'm not saying [totally off-the-wall nutso conspiracy theory], I'm just saying there are a lot of unanswered questions.
    Do go on.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2015

    Anorak said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    Meanwhile, some scaremongering crap from America:

    Rand Paul was more forthright. “The state doesn’t own your children,” he said, adding that he had deliberately spread out the vaccinations of his own children so they didn’t receive too many at one time. He said he had “heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines”. But he offered no details.

    [this one is a couple of days old - may already have been discussed]

    The point he's making - rightly or wrongly - is that parents should be allowed to make up their own minds.

    The correlation, causation mix up is genuinely scary, mind.
    Do a bit of research, you might end up a lot less certain.
    I have three young children. I did the research. They are all vaccinated. You need to look at the expertise and credibility on each side of the argument. The health profession vs. Mrs Jim Carrey is not an even match.
    If your case was strong, I don't see why you would need to create a straw man. Rand Paul's children are also vaccinated according to the text you posted.
    He had the vaccines spread out (causing more pain to his kids, and delaying immunity when they were most vulnerable) because of ill-informed fear. His behaviour was caused by the toxic atmosphere whipped up by the vaxxers, the same atmosphere currently [indirectly] causing a measles outbreak in California 15 years after the disease was declared 'practically eradicted' in the United States.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,843
    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    Meanwhile, some scaremongering crap from America:

    Rand Paul was more forthright. “The state doesn’t own your children,” he said, adding that he had deliberately spread out the vaccinations of his own children so they didn’t receive too many at one time. He said he had “heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines”. But he offered no details.

    [this one is a couple of days old - may already have been discussed]

    The point he's making - rightly or wrongly - is that parents should be allowed to make up their own minds.

    The correlation, causation mix up is genuinely scary, mind.
    Do a bit of research, you might end up a lot less certain.
    Out of interest, do you believe Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?
    I haven't been told.anything to the contrary, so yes. But I'm not emotionally invested in it. If someone provides me with substantial data indicating a different course of events, I will consider it without prejudice.

  • Critics of Sarah Champion will be pleased to see she is active on the matter of child abuse.

    I read on her website of her innovative campaign :

    "Sarah has become the first foster Mum of a teddy bear called Mistoffelees. The bear represents victims of child abuse; a companion of a child who has seen and experienced what the victim went through. The idea is for Mistoffolees to be handed around Westminster, with each politician having pictures taken with him and writing a message in his accompanying book to show their support against child abuse."


    She has been a tireless campaigner on behalf of abuse victims.

    She was a major contributor to a report on sex abuse of children across the UK which was published in April 2014. If the authorities are to make any progress in investigating these matters it will be due in no small measure to the likes of SC.

    I think the teddy bear idea is one of those fund-raising things that help to raise awareness, as well as funds. It worked for BLISS, for example. But does it matter, as long as the job gets done?
  • TOPPING said:

    Socrates - Don't talk about Rotherham or grooming going forward.

    Again, you've accused people of being guilty of crimes, that they weren't found being guilty of, they were found guilty of other crimes.

    Your comments are likely to get Mike into trouble.

    Everyone else - Tone it down - The spam trap is now set to automatically anyone who swears, including those who use asterikses.

    No asterikses? What about Vitalstatistix? Can we mention him?
    It is all very gaulling.....
    We're also discussing whether bad jokes should result in instant moderation!
    Will Kipper be mixed up with pb Kipper tie joke?


  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,040

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    Meanwhile, some scaremongering crap from America:

    Rand Paul was more forthright. “The state doesn’t own your children,” he said, adding that he had deliberately spread out the vaccinations of his own children so they didn’t receive too many at one time. He said he had “heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines”. But he offered no details.

    [this one is a couple of days old - may already have been discussed]

    The point he's making - rightly or wrongly - is that parents should be allowed to make up their own minds.

    The correlation, causation mix up is genuinely scary, mind.
    Do a bit of research, you might end up a lot less certain.
    Out of interest, do you believe Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?
    I haven't been told.anything to the contrary, so yes. But I'm not emotionally invested in it. If someone provides me with substantial data indicating a different course of events, I will consider it without prejudice.

    Just FYI, the flag waving is not evidence against the moon landings ;)
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2015

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    Meanwhile, some scaremongering crap from America:

    Rand Paul was more forthright. “The state doesn’t own your children,” he said, adding that he had deliberately spread out the vaccinations of his own children so they didn’t receive too many at one time. He said he had “heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines”. But he offered no details.

    [this one is a couple of days old - may already have been discussed]

    The point he's making - rightly or wrongly - is that parents should be allowed to make up their own minds.

    The correlation, causation mix up is genuinely scary, mind.
    Do a bit of research, you might end up a lot less certain.
    Out of interest, do you believe Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?
    I haven't been told.anything to the contrary, so yes. But I'm not emotionally invested in it. If someone provides me with substantial data indicating a different course of events, I will consider it without prejudice.
    Here you go. Some thought-provoking stuff. http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicapollo.html
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,630
    edited February 2015

    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    Meanwhile, some scaremongering crap from America:

    Rand Paul was more forthright. “The state doesn’t own your children,” he said, adding that he had deliberately spread out the vaccinations of his own children so they didn’t receive too many at one time. He said he had “heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines”. But he offered no details.

    [this one is a couple of days old - may already have been discussed]

    The point he's making - rightly or wrongly - is that parents should be allowed to make up their own minds.

    The correlation, causation mix up is genuinely scary, mind.
    Do a bit of research, you might end up a lot less certain.
    It's really terribly simple. The Yokohama study clearly demonstrated there is no correlation between autism and MMR.

    Once that study - covering 300,000 children - showed no link, all discussion should henceforth stop. (See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15877763)

    Essentially, the Yokohama precinct in Japan ceased giving the MMR jab for four years, instead giving single, spaced out, vaccines.

    The autism rate in Yokohama was then compared to that of Japan as a whole.

    There was no difference.

    MMR does not not cause autism.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Neil said:

    Sean_F said:


    WRT the electoral earthquake that's impending in Scotland, the only equivalents that I can think of are the rise of the Irish Parliamentary Party (outside Ulster) in 1885/86, and its disappearance in 1918.

    Those parallels (and it's hard to avoid them) dont bode particularly well for future of the Union. Time to occupy the north-east corner of Scotland! Is there anything valuable there?

    Shetland? You bet!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,040
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    Meanwhile, some scaremongering crap from America:

    Rand Paul was more forthright. “The state doesn’t own your children,” he said, adding that he had deliberately spread out the vaccinations of his own children so they didn’t receive too many at one time. He said he had “heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines”. But he offered no details.

    [this one is a couple of days old - may already have been discussed]

    The point he's making - rightly or wrongly - is that parents should be allowed to make up their own minds.

    The correlation, causation mix up is genuinely scary, mind.
    Do a bit of research, you might end up a lot less certain.
    It's really terribly simple. The Yokohama study clearly demonstrated there is no correlation between autism and MMR.

    Once that study - covering 300,000 children - demonstrates no link. (See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15877763)

    Essentially, the Yokohama precinct in Japan ceased giving the MMR jab for four years, instead giving single, spaced out, vaccines.

    The autism rate in Yokohama was then compared to that of Japan as a whole.

    There was no difference.

    MMR does not not cause autism.
    Tin foil hat moment -
    MMR does not cause autism in kids from Yokohama. ;)
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited February 2015
    Peter the Punter,

    Greetings ! I have long admired your posts !

    However, I don't agree with you about Mistoffelees the Bear. I am afraid this looks like a photo-opportunity for politicians -- and an extremely misjudged one at that.

    There is no mention of fund-raising on her website & twitter feed ; it seems the role of Mistoffelees the Bear is to raise awareness.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2015
    Coral match bet

    SNP vs Lib Dems

    SNP 1/12
    LD 10/1
    Tie 11/1

    5/6 UKIP over 4.5 prob a bet... middle and arbs available

    5/6 UKIP to bt Plaid?
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    Meanwhile, some scaremongering crap from America:

    Rand Paul was more forthright. “The state doesn’t own your children,” he said, adding that he had deliberately spread out the vaccinations of his own children so they didn’t receive too many at one time. He said he had “heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines”. But he offered no details.

    [this one is a couple of days old - may already have been discussed]

    The correlation, causation mix up is genuinely scary, mind.
    There is no such mix up. I think you mean "post hoc, ergo propter hoc", but you are still just plain wrong. We know that smoking causes cancer because Doll listed enough cases of people who smoked, then got cancer (and the converse) - that is still much the strongest evidence we have for that proposition. It is also lucky that for instance Edward Jenner and John Snow thought that some cases of a, then b might profitably be examined a bit more closely.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    Meanwhile, some scaremongering crap from America:

    Rand Paul was more forthright. “The state doesn’t own your children,” he said, adding that he had deliberately spread out the vaccinations of his own children so they didn’t receive too many at one time. He said he had “heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines”. But he offered no details.

    [this one is a couple of days old - may already have been discussed]

    The point he's making - rightly or wrongly - is that parents should be allowed to make up their own minds.

    The correlation, causation mix up is genuinely scary, mind.
    Do a bit of research, you might end up a lot less certain.
    It's really terribly simple. The Yokohama study clearly demonstrated there is no correlation between autism and MMR.

    Once that study - covering 300,000 children - showed no link, all discussion should henceforth stop. (See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15877763)

    Essentially, the Yokohama precinct in Japan ceased giving the MMR jab for four years, instead giving single, spaced out, vaccines.

    The autism rate in Yokohama was then compared to that of Japan as a whole.

    There was no difference.

    MMR does not not cause autism.
    Yeah, but who FUNDED that study. BIG PHARMA, that's who. No surprise it came to that conclusion. My aunt Bessie's hairdresser's friend knew someone whos kid got autism ONE DAY after a jab. Coincidence - I think not!!! Just follow the money, and it all makes sense.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TOPPING said:

    Socrates - Don't talk about Rotherham or grooming going forward.

    Again, you've accused people of being guilty of crimes, that they weren't found being guilty of, they were found guilty of other crimes.

    Your comments are likely to get Mike into trouble.

    Everyone else - Tone it down - The spam trap is now set to automatically anyone who swears, including those who use asterikses.

    No asterikses? What about Vitalstatistix? Can we mention him?
    To Getafix may be? But I wouldn't unless you want a Cacaphonix of complaints. The Moderator is just a Dogmatix Obelix in you path
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    Peter the Punter,

    Greetings ! I have long admired your posts !

    However, I don't agree with you about Mistoffelees the Bear. I am afraid this looks like a photo-opportunity for politicians -- and an extremely misjudged one at that.

    There is no mention of fund-raising on her website & twitter feed ; it seems the role of Mistoffelees the Bear is to raise awareness.

    I know it might not sound important but Mr Mistoffelees is the name of TS Eliot's creation - the cat who makes things disappear. Not exactly the right message for this sort of campaign...
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Pulpstar said:

    Seriously considering helping the UKIP effort in Rother Valley.

    On my doorstep (I'm not in the constituency though)

    I will be donating to the Rotherham UKIP campaign fund and possibly going up there to help canvas.

    Sadly, I do not think anything will be done with Labour in control there. Despite being a Kipper I would rather anyone but Labour wins that seat. It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it.

    Apparently Mark Reckless was screamed at in the HoC by a Labour MP and various other MPs took to Twitter to claim he was scoring cheap political points. Labour made it a political issue when they turned a blind eye to the mass rape of children in the name of "community relations" and "political correctness".

  • Completely off topic. Does anybody know what the symbol before the £ sign means - £700
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,040
    Anorak said:

    Yeah, but who FUNDED that study. BIG PHARMA, that's who. No surprise it came to that conclusion. My aunt Bessie's hairdresser's friend knew someone whos kid got autism ONE DAY after a jab. Coincidence - I think not!!! Just follow the money, and it all makes sense.

    Checkmate!
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171


    Out of interest, do you believe Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?

    I haven't been told.anything to the contrary, so yes. But I'm not emotionally invested in it. If someone provides me with substantial data indicating a different course of events, I will consider it without prejudice.



    I am one of those loonies who doesn't bellieve he did. What could man do in 1972 that man cannot do know from a technological standpoint. Answer :Leave earths orbit. Does anyone else not think thats a bit weird. The highest the space shuttle ever got to was 380 miles yet in 1969 man went 250,000 miles to the moon, landed and orbitted the moon at the same time, then blasted off from the moon, docked with an orbitting craft going at 20000 mph and flew home. This was in a machine made of silver foil and with less computer power than a ZX Spectrum.

    If we tried to go back to the moon now despite the extraordinairy advances in technology it would take us at least 15 years yet in the sixties America did it 8. I cannot understand this. Its easy for us to get into earths orbit why is it not easy for us to fly to the moon. I mean we have the plans of the machines that did it in 1969.

    Take the formula one testing today. These machines are amazing. Compare them to the machines used in 1969. Yet we cannot go to the moon anymore. It makes no sense. We can fly an unmanned ship to Mars no problem but we cant fly a manned ship to the moon.

    I am often laughed at for my views but I am quite an logical person and in the words of Spock..............
  • Critics of Sarah Champion will be pleased to see she is active on the matter of child abuse.

    I read on her website of her innovative campaign :

    "Sarah has become the first foster Mum of a teddy bear called Mistoffelees. The bear represents victims of child abuse; a companion of a child who has seen and experienced what the victim went through. The idea is for Mistoffolees to be handed around Westminster, with each politician having pictures taken with him and writing a message in his accompanying book to show their support against child abuse."


    She has been a tireless campaigner on behalf of abuse victims.

    She was a major contributor to a report on sex abuse of children across the UK which was published in April 2014. If the authorities are to make any progress in investigating these matters it will be due in no small measure to the likes of SC.

    I think the teddy bear idea is one of those fund-raising things that help to raise awareness, as well as funds. It worked for BLISS, for example. But does it matter, as long as the job gets done?

    Spot on.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,040

    Completely off topic. Does anybody know what the symbol before the £ sign means - £700

    Nothing obvious here

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Â

    Looks like a formatting bug?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Labour seats

    Coral ou 272.5 5/6
    Unibet ou 287.5 11/13
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    isam said:

    Coral match bet

    SNP vs Lib Dems

    SNP 1/12
    LD 10/1
    Tie 11/1

    5/6 UKIP over 4.5 prob a bet... middle and arbs available

    5/6 UKIP to bt Plaid?

    10-1 Lib Dem is humoungous.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2015

    Completely off topic. Does anybody know what the symbol before the £ sign means - £700

    Formatting bug. Means nothing.
    http://www.dannicholson.co.uk/2011/10/31/html-displaying-apound-instead-of-pound/
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    MP_SE said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Seriously considering helping the UKIP effort in Rother Valley.

    On my doorstep (I'm not in the constituency though)

    I will be donating to the Rotherham UKIP campaign fund and possibly going up there to help canvas.

    Sadly, I do not think anything will be done with Labour in control there. Despite being a Kipper I would rather anyone but Labour wins that seat. It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it.

    Apparently Mark Reckless was screamed at in the HoC by a Labour MP and various other MPs took to Twitter to claim he was scoring cheap political points. Labour made it a political issue when they turned a blind eye to the mass rape of children in the name of "community relations" and "political correctness".

    Be careful, this site doesn't tolerate too much mention of it either... kippers mentioning the atrocities in Rotherham turns the Conservatives on here into Ken Livingstone
  • @MPSE

    "It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it. "

    You are kidding, aren't you?

    Here's the summary.

    http://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/media_centre/press_releases.htm?ref=96525

    And if you have time,read the whole report.
  • isam said:

    MP_SE said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Seriously considering helping the UKIP effort in Rother Valley.

    On my doorstep (I'm not in the constituency though)

    I will be donating to the Rotherham UKIP campaign fund and possibly going up there to help canvas.

    Sadly, I do not think anything will be done with Labour in control there. Despite being a Kipper I would rather anyone but Labour wins that seat. It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it.

    Apparently Mark Reckless was screamed at in the HoC by a Labour MP and various other MPs took to Twitter to claim he was scoring cheap political points. Labour made it a political issue when they turned a blind eye to the mass rape of children in the name of "community relations" and "political correctness".

    Be careful, this site doesn't tolerate too much mention of it either... kippers mentioning the atrocities in Rotherham turns the Conservatives on here into Ken Livingstone
    rubbish.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Completely off topic. Does anybody know what the symbol before the £ sign means - £700


    I've seen something like that when the text is in UTF-8 format, but the page is not set to show as that.

  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Ishmael_X said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    Meanwhile, some scaremongering crap from America:

    Rand Paul was more forthright. “The state doesn’t own your children,” he said, adding that he had deliberately spread out the vaccinations of his own children so they didn’t receive too many at one time. He said he had “heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines”. But he offered no details.

    [this one is a couple of days old - may already have been discussed]

    The correlation, causation mix up is genuinely scary, mind.
    There is no such mix up. I think you mean "post hoc, ergo propter hoc", but you are still just plain wrong. We know that smoking causes cancer because Doll listed enough cases of people who smoked, then got cancer (and the converse) - that is still much the strongest evidence we have for that proposition. It is also lucky that for instance Edward Jenner and John Snow thought that some cases of a, then b might profitably be examined a bit more closely.

    People can and do draw an unjustified causal conclusion from correlation, but in my experience it's at least as common nowadays for people to misuse "correlation does not equal causation" where it really doesn't apply.

    Actually, I'm not sure if this is what rcs1000 meant, but there actually is one aspect of the vaccination scare to which that could be applied- age. Vaccines are applied at a certain age, and certain diseases can start showing symptoms in particular age ranges too. That's a common cause which could cause a correlation.
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Anorak - brain damage in children from the flu jab - so things happen. I knew a woman who thought her children were affected by mmr, her boys did not speak until they were five, but seemed normal before.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    MP_SE said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Seriously considering helping the UKIP effort in Rother Valley.

    On my doorstep (I'm not in the constituency though)

    I will be donating to the Rotherham UKIP campaign fund and possibly going up there to help canvas.

    Sadly, I do not think anything will be done with Labour in control there. Despite being a Kipper I would rather anyone but Labour wins that seat. It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it.

    Apparently Mark Reckless was screamed at in the HoC by a Labour MP and various other MPs took to Twitter to claim he was scoring cheap political points. Labour made it a political issue when they turned a blind eye to the mass rape of children in the name of "community relations" and "political correctness".

    Be careful, this site doesn't tolerate too much mention of it either... kippers mentioning the atrocities in Rotherham turns the Conservatives on here into Ken Livingstone
    rubbish.
    Oh.. I thought Socrates had been stopped mentioning it and Mr Jones barred from the sitte for mentioning it?

    Earlier on @TheWatcher had a pop at UKIP for saying it was Muslims doing the child abusing in Rotherham

    Stop me when something I said isn't true...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Coral match bet

    SNP vs Lib Dems

    SNP 1/12
    LD 10/1
    Tie 11/1

    5/6 UKIP over 4.5 prob a bet... middle and arbs available

    5/6 UKIP to bt Plaid?

    10-1 Lib Dem is humoungous.
    I tried to back the Ladbrokes EVS SNP last week and they cut it to 10/11 don't think I got on!!
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    MP_SE said:

    It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it.

    I am often surprised by the views that various pbc-ers hold but this one has well and truly gasted my flabber.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    PAW said:

    Anorak - I knew a woman who thought her children were affected by mmr, her boys did not speak until they were five, but seemed normal before.

    Nice anecdote. Means nothing.

    (it meant a great deal to the woman involved, obviously, but as a piece of evidence it's utterly worthless)
  • In an effort to be funny Coral have overpriced the latter two options:

    Scottish Conservative MPs v Pandas

    Number of Pandas in Scotland on Election Day 1/25
    Tie 10/1
    Number of Constituencies won in Scotland by the Conservatives 25/1 now 18/1, still value

    Plus you get the chance that the pandas die.

    "Those Pandas you sold me, they won't mate. They just walk around, eating, and not mating. You sold me... queer Pandas. I want my money back."
    We certainly don't want to hear the pitter-patter of panda paws before 7 May. Queer pandas are alright.
    As Jasper Carrott said, the pandas can't sleep at night because of all the rabbits outside their cage shouting "Easy! Easy! .."
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    edited February 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    Meanwhile, some scaremongering crap from America:

    Rand Paul was more forthright. “The state doesn’t own your children,” he said, adding that he had deliberately spread out the vaccinations of his own children so they didn’t receive too many at one time. He said he had “heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines”. But he offered no details.

    [this one is a couple of days old - may already have been discussed]

    The point he's making - rightly or wrongly - is that parents should be allowed to make up their own minds.

    The correlation, causation mix up is genuinely scary, mind.
    Do a bit of research, you might end up a lot less certain.
    It's really terribly simple. The Yokohama study clearly demonstrated there is no correlation between autism and MMR.

    Once that study - covering 300,000 children - showed no link, all discussion should henceforth stop. (See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15877763)

    Essentially, the Yokohama precinct in Japan ceased giving the MMR jab for four years, instead giving single, spaced out, vaccines.

    The autism rate in Yokohama was then compared to that of Japan as a whole.

    There was no difference.

    MMR does not not cause autism.
    It is not as terribly simple as you think it is. You write as if you thought "the MMR jab" is the same thing in Japan, the UK and the USA. It isn't. And Paul didn't say MMR causes autism, he said "vaccines" (not MMR) cause "profound mental disorders" - an expression not limited to, and on most views not even including, autism - so what force does your Yokohama study have against him?

    I have no axe to grind here, I MMRed my children and they turned out no weirder than the control sample, but if you are going in for patronising nitpicking, for goodness sake get it right.
  • Peter the Punter,

    Greetings ! I have long admired your posts !

    However, I don't agree with you about Mistoffelees the Bear. I am afraid this looks like a photo-opportunity for politicians -- and an extremely misjudged one at that.

    There is no mention of fund-raising on her website & twitter feed ; it seems the role of Mistoffelees the Bear is to raise awareness.

    So it's a photo-opportunity - who gives a stuff? There's a bit more at stake here than a few egos.

    There are many people working to help the victims of sex abuse, and bring their abusers to justice. They include people from all parties and a wide range of professions. Sc is just one of them. She can take all the photo-ops she likes.

    And so can all those who are helping in this very important task.

    (And don't patronise me. It makes me mad!)
  • Do Betfair Sportsbook have a market on Glasgow North, or have I missed it?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    What I found surprising about the Rand Paul / immunisation thing (and said so at the time so apologies for repeating myself) was that Chris Christie came out with similar comments. Will the non-crazy wing of the GOP please stand up?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Anorak said:



    Also, more nurses. Can't have enough of them. Ever.

    In what sense?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2015
    currystar said:



    Out of interest, do you believe Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?

    @currystar
    "I am one of those loonies who doesn't bellieve he did. What could man do in 1972 that man cannot do know from a technological standpoint. Answer :Leave earths orbit. Does anyone else not think thats a bit weird. The highest the space shuttle ever got to was 380 miles yet in 1969 man went 250,000 miles to the moon, landed and orbitted the moon at the same time, then blasted off from the moon, docked with an orbitting craft going at 20000 mph and flew home. This was in a machine made of silver foil and with less computer power than a ZX Spectrum.

    If we tried to go back to the moon now despite the extraordinairy advances in technology it would take us at least 15 years yet in the sixties America did it 8. I cannot understand this. Its easy for us to get into earths orbit why is it not easy for us to fly to the moon. I mean we have the plans of the machines that did it in 1969.

    Take the formula one testing today. These machines are amazing. Compare them to the machines used in 1969. Yet we cannot go to the moon anymore. It makes no sense. We can fly an unmanned ship to Mars no problem but we cant fly a manned ship to the moon.

    I am often laughed at for my views but I am quite an logical person and in the words of Spock.............. "

    My answer to the above:

    Since we are veering into conspiracy theory, the answer is yes humans did go to the moon.

    And as to technological development, you forget than during war periods or cold war periods, government investment in technology and industrial development is always huge, which results in a boost to technological development.
    Here look at the cold war effect on the NASA budget:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA

    The computers we use are the direct descendants of the apollo command module computer, with out the cold war there would have been no space race and no modern computers or modern electronics in general.

    Today in an era of peace between major powers investment in technology and industry has slumped and the Economist is moaning about the stagnation of technological progress causing productivity to stagnate in the west.

    As to when humans will go back to the moon the answer is pretty obvious: As soon as the chinese government decides to do so, the americans and the russians will follow in the second space race.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Charles said:

    Anorak said:



    Also, more nurses. Can't have enough of them. Ever.

    In what sense?
    The sarcastic one I think.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited February 2015
    Neil said:

    What I found surprising about the Rand Paul / immunisation thing (and said so at the time so apologies for repeating myself) was that Chris Christie came out with similar comments. Will the non-crazy wing of the GOP please stand up?

    The non-crazy wing pretty much starts and ends with Jeb Bush at this point.

    Edit: John Kasich too, to be fair.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Charles said:

    Anorak said:



    Also, more nurses. Can't have enough of them. Ever.

    In what sense?
    Been visiting www.xxx-nurses-in-vinyl.com again, have you? Naughty.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,630
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Coral match bet

    SNP vs Lib Dems

    SNP 1/12
    LD 10/1
    Tie 11/1

    5/6 UKIP over 4.5 prob a bet... middle and arbs available

    5/6 UKIP to bt Plaid?

    10-1 Lib Dem is humoungous.
    You're being offered 10-1 that the SNP<->Labour swing moves just 3 or 4% between the election and now. That may happen, although it's unlikely. Still, I'd reckon it's a greater than 10% chance, and therefore 10-1 is cracking odds, especially given how small the swings back need to be for Labour to hold some of their Glasgow seats.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2015
    isam said:

    isam said:

    MP_SE said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Seriously considering helping the UKIP effort in Rother Valley.

    On my doorstep (I'm not in the constituency though)

    I will be donating to the Rotherham UKIP campaign fund and possibly going up there to help canvas.

    Sadly, I do not think anything will be done with Labour in control there. Despite being a Kipper I would rather anyone but Labour wins that seat. It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it.

    Apparently Mark Reckless was screamed at in the HoC by a Labour MP and various other MPs took to Twitter to claim he was scoring cheap political points. Labour made it a political issue when they turned a blind eye to the mass rape of children in the name of "community relations" and "political correctness".

    Be careful, this site doesn't tolerate too much mention of it either... kippers mentioning the atrocities in Rotherham turns the Conservatives on here into Ken Livingstone
    rubbish.
    Oh.. I thought Socrates had been stopped mentioning it and Mr Jones barred from the sitte for mentioning it?

    Earlier on @TheWatcher had a pop at UKIP for saying it was Muslims doing the child abusing in Rotherham

    Stop me when something I said isn't true...
    No, I had a pop at politicians who wish to make political capital out of such heinous acts. Get it right.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Sean_F said:

    surbiton said:

    Financier said:

    So looking at the Ladbroke's odds for each seat, at present:

    SNP: 41 (+35)
    LAB: 14 (-27)
    LD: 3 (-8)
    CONS: 1 (0)

    Will the GE be +/- 10% of this?

    Finally, the constituency odds are lining up with Scotland UNS swings. Which is the third Lib Dem seat ? Roxburgh ?
    If the Lib Dems hold three, I should think it would be Orkney & Shetland, Ross, Cromarty & Skye, and Caithness & Sutherland.
    Applying the Gordon swing to other Scottish Lib Dem Scottish seats would see the Lib Dems holding O and S , R C and S and Berwickshire with Fife NE almost tied at 35/34 SNP/LD . Dunbarton East would be almost a 3 way tie 32/29/29 . Caithness . Aberdeenshire West and Edinburgh West are not lost causes if incumbency can reduce the SNP boost .
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Coral match bet

    SNP vs Lib Dems

    SNP 1/12
    LD 10/1
    Tie 11/1

    5/6 UKIP over 4.5 prob a bet... middle and arbs available

    5/6 UKIP to bt Plaid?

    10-1 Lib Dem is humoungous.
    You're being offered 10-1 that the SNP<->Labour swing moves just 3 or 4% between the election and now. That may happen, although it's unlikely. Still, I'd reckon it's a greater than 10% chance, and therefore 10-1 is cracking odds, especially given how small the swings back need to be for Labour to hold some of their Glasgow seats.

    The Lib Dems could prove stickier than shit too.
  • Critics of Sarah Champion will be pleased to see she is active on the matter of child abuse.

    I read on her website of her innovative campaign :

    "Sarah has become the first foster Mum of a teddy bear called Mistoffelees. The bear represents victims of child abuse; a companion of a child who has seen and experienced what the victim went through. The idea is for Mistoffolees to be handed around Westminster, with each politician having pictures taken with him and writing a message in his accompanying book to show their support against child abuse."


    She has been a tireless campaigner on behalf of abuse victims.
    She was a major contributor to a report on sex abuse of children across the UK which was published in April 2014. If the authorities are to make any progress in investigating these matters it will be due in no small measure to the likes of SC.
    Peter she lived in Rotherham from 2008 to the present working for a childrens hospice in Rotherham. Could you share with us what she had to say about child abuse prior to being elected in November 2012?

    Her work with Barnados started in November 2013. "In 2010, (in Rotherham) five men of Pakistani heritage were found guilty of a series of sexual offences against girls as young as twelve."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
  • Amazing! BBC 6 o'clock news no mention of Labour re Rotherham.
  • currystar said:

    If we tried to go back to the moon now despite the extraordinairy advances in technology it would take us at least 15 years yet in the sixties America did it 8. I cannot understand this. Its easy for us to get into earths orbit why is it not easy for us to fly to the moon. I mean we have the plans of the machines that did it in 1969.

    My understanding is that the plans for the Saturn V rockets have been destroyed. This upsets the people who would like to use them to send people to Mars.

    I think, if we really wanted to, we could put a man on the Moon within five years - but there's no urgency to do so. Back in the 60s, with the superpower competition at the time, it was felt to be incredibly important for US prestige to get there before the Russians did, and so the required effort was made.

    Consider also how long it is taking for Britain to build and commission a pair of carriers for the Navy, and the time and expense required for the same during WWII. I'm fairly confident that the WWII era carrier wouldn't stand much of a chance in an engagement with the ones being built now, though.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    MP_SE said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Seriously considering helping the UKIP effort in Rother Valley.

    On my doorstep (I'm not in the constituency though)

    I will be donating to the Rotherham UKIP campaign fund and possibly going up there to help canvas.

    Sadly, I do not think anything will be done with Labour in control there. Despite being a Kipper I would rather anyone but Labour wins that seat. It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it.

    Apparently Mark Reckless was screamed at in the HoC by a Labour MP and various other MPs took to Twitter to claim he was scoring cheap political points. Labour made it a political issue when they turned a blind eye to the mass rape of children in the name of "community relations" and "political correctness".

    Be careful, this site doesn't tolerate too much mention of it either... kippers mentioning the atrocities in Rotherham turns the Conservatives on here into Ken Livingstone
    rubbish.
    Oh.. I thought Socrates had been stopped mentioning it and Mr Jones barred from the sitte for mentioning it?

    Earlier on @TheWatcher had a pop at UKIP for saying it was Muslims doing the child abusing in Rotherham

    Stop me when something I said isn't true...
    No, I had a pop at politicians who wish to make political capital out of such heinous acts. Get it right.
    So how could Farage answer a question on it without making political capital out of it...no matter what he said, if he mentioned the naughty "M word" you would have a pop at him.

    That attitude is why no one mentioned it while it was happening, that why the kids got raped
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Anorak said:

    PAW said:

    Anorak - I knew a woman who thought her children were affected by mmr, her boys did not speak until they were five, but seemed normal before.

    Nice anecdote. Means nothing.

    (it meant a great deal to the woman involved, obviously, but as a piece of evidence it's utterly worthless)
    No, it is a fallacy propounded by those who have got about 75% of the way to understanding the benefits of controlled medical trials, that the existence of those trials renders anecdotes worthless. For a start, you generally trial something on the basis of case studies or clinical observations (in other words, anecdotes).

    "I knew a woman who thought her children were affected by thalidomide, her boys had no arms" - would those words spoken in 1965 be "utterly worthless" as a piece of evidence?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2015
    Ishmael_X said:

    Anorak said:

    PAW said:

    Anorak - I knew a woman who thought her children were affected by mmr, her boys did not speak until they were five, but seemed normal before.

    Nice anecdote. Means nothing.

    (it meant a great deal to the woman involved, obviously, but as a piece of evidence it's utterly worthless)
    No, it is a fallacy propounded by those who have got about 75% of the way to understanding the benefits of controlled medical trials, that the existence of those trials renders anecdotes worthless. For a start, you generally trial something on the basis of case studies or clinical observations (in other words, anecdotes).

    "I knew a woman who thought her children were affected by thalidomide, her boys had no arms" - would those words spoken in 1965 be "utterly worthless" as a piece of evidence?
    Right, I get that. MMR is the most studied vaccine under the sun. It has collected a bazzillion anecdotes and skip-fulls of evidence, conducted countless studies and metastudies and firmly concluded there is no link between MMR and impairment of mental function/development in children.

    In that context, PAW's anecdote "I know a woman who thought her children were affected by MMR", is worthless. Utterly and totally so.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited February 2015

    @MPSE

    "It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it. "

    You are kidding, aren't you?

    Here's the summary.

    http://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/media_centre/press_releases.htm?ref=96525

    And if you have time,read the whole report.

    I may have missed something but I didn't find any mention of Rotherham in the report. Would you be able to provide the page numbers which make reference to CSE in Rotherham? I am sure in time we will have a better idea of who knew what and when.
  • The 9 minute 6pm BBC1 News report into Rotherham never mentioned the word "Labour" in the whole of that period. Truly appalling bias favouring the Labour party.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Anorak said:

    Charles said:

    Anorak said:



    Also, more nurses. Can't have enough of them. Ever.

    In what sense?
    Been visiting www.xxx-nurses-in-vinyl.com again, have you? Naughty.
    I didn't know that site. Thanks for the link ;)
  • rcs1000 said:

    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    Socrates - Don't talk about Rotherham or grooming going forward.

    Again, you've accused people of being guilty of crimes, that they weren't found being guilty of, they were found guilty of other crimes.

    Your comments are likely to get Mike into trouble.

    Everyone else - Tone it down - The spam trap is now set to automatically anyone who swears, including those who use asterikses.

    Do you mean that no one is allowed to mention the Rotherham case from now on. I thought you and your dad were for Je suis Charlie? Now you are banning discussion?
    PBModerator is TheScreamingEagles, not rcs1000.
    Nooooo???!
    Apparently I'm wrong on at lest this occasion, but it's my understanding PBModerator is sometimes the account used by TSE.

    However, I would like to know from whoever is using the account right now the minimum on how long my ban on discussing the biggest scandal in British politics for decades will last for. It seems like a huge restriction on free discussion when I have always done my best to respect the rules of the site, and to retract claims when I have overstepped. I don't believe Mike is put at any real risk for my comments if I continue to act in such a way.
    The biggest scandal in British politics in all time is going to be the Westminster Paedophile Ring. It will make Rotherham look like a sideshow - in terms of the depravity of the acts (as far as I'm aware no murders were alleged in Rotherham, and in terms of the extent of the cover-up.

    There will be a lot of new Jimmy Saville's, and it won't be pretty.
    When I was in my very early 20s, and a university activist, I met a handful of older Tory MPs who I found decidedly creepy. I won't say any more than that (and I wonder if even that's too much) but I felt uncomfortable in their presence. I also heard stories but just didn't believe them.

    But nothing like that. Shocking doesn't come close. I don't want to believe it but I'm not sure anything surprise me anymore.
    I must say I was also very sceptical. Not any more.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Completely off topic but if the SLAB cull really does happen then Labour will lose their best pension spokesperson / minister of the last 20 years or so. Someone who has a comparable grasp of the brief as Steve Webb which is no mean feat. I cant imagine he thought he'd be in a fight for his political life just 12 months ago though.
  • MP_SE said:

    @MPSE

    "It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it. "

    You are kidding, aren't you?

    Here's the summary.

    http://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/media_centre/press_releases.htm?ref=96525

    And if you have time,read the whole report.

    I may have missed something but I didn't find any mention of Rotherham in the report. Would you be able to provide the page numbers which make reference to CSE in Rotherham. I am sure in time we will have a better idea of who knew what and when.
    I also asked for evidence of where she said something prior to her becoming an MP in November 2012. But she seems to have lived there for 4 years and not left a trace on this.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    No we Khan't?

    @JoeMurphyLondon: Oooh - @DavidLammy on @margarethodge i/v: "Margaret a great friend...huge amount to offer...work closely in coming months" Double-oooh
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Scott_P said:

    No we Khan't?

    @JoeMurphyLondon: Oooh - @DavidLammy on @margarethodge i/v: "Margaret a great friend...huge amount to offer...work closely in coming months" Double-oooh

    Khan't is spelled with a 'u'?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    No we Khan't?

    I quite like David Lammy. Not the brightest tool in the box, but a good hearted guy, in my view
  • MP_SE said:

    @MPSE

    "It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it. "

    You are kidding, aren't you?

    Here's the summary.

    http://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/media_centre/press_releases.htm?ref=96525

    And if you have time,read the whole report.

    I may have missed something but I didn't find any mention of Rotherham in the report. Would you be able to provide the page numbers which make reference to CSE in Rotherham? I am sure in time we will have a better idea of who knew what and when.
    Rotherham is just a part of the bigger picture. Here's the link to the report:

    www.barnardos.org.uk_cse_parliamentary_inquiry_report-2.pdf

  • MP_SE said:

    @MPSE

    "It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it. "

    You are kidding, aren't you?

    Here's the summary.

    http://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/media_centre/press_releases.htm?ref=96525

    And if you have time,read the whole report.

    I may have missed something but I didn't find any mention of Rotherham in the report. Would you be able to provide the page numbers which make reference to CSE in Rotherham. I am sure in time we will have a better idea of who knew what and when.
    I also asked for evidence of where she said something prior to her becoming an MP in November 2012. But she seems to have lived there for 4 years and not left a trace on this.

    She entered public life when she became a Labour candidate.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    BREAKING NEWS: Reports say that a Jordan airstrike killed 56 including ISIS leader 'Prince of Nineveh' pic.twitter.com/BTumeijJAG

    — Jewish Feed (@JewishFeed) February 4, 2015
  • MP_SE said:

    @MPSE

    "It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it. "

    You are kidding, aren't you?

    Here's the summary.

    http://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/media_centre/press_releases.htm?ref=96525

    And if you have time,read the whole report.

    I may have missed something but I didn't find any mention of Rotherham in the report. Would you be able to provide the page numbers which make reference to CSE in Rotherham. I am sure in time we will have a better idea of who knew what and when.
    I also asked for evidence of where she said something prior to her becoming an MP in November 2012. But she seems to have lived there for 4 years and not left a trace on this.
    How do you know what she did and didn't do?

    She's campaigning now, along with many others. They're getting results. What's your problem?
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Looks like a Commonwealth judge is going to lead the child abuse inquiry. I seem to recall suggesting this a while back!

    http://www.bmrb.co.uk/ ;)
    Not sure how that's relevant, but i'll bite:

    Use the BMRB, Sunil!
    BMRB - It's a blank site, mwh-hahaha!! :)
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    City A.M. ‏@CityAM 13m13 minutes ago
    Bus strikes are scheduled for tomorrow. Here's everything you need to know http://dlvr.it/8NypqL
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    edited February 2015
    Speedy said:

    currystar said:



    Out of interest, do you believe Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?

    @currystar
    "I am one of those loonies who doesn't bellieve he did. What could man do in 1972 that man cannot do know from a technological standpoint. Answer :Leave earths orbit. Does anyone else not think thats a bit weird. The highest the space shuttle ever got to was 380 miles yet in 1969 man went 250,000 miles to the moon, landed and orbitted the moon at the same time, then blasted off from the moon, docked with an orbitting craft going at 20000 mph and flew home. This was in a machine made of silver foil and with less computer power than a ZX Spectrum.

    If we tried to go back to the moon now despite the extraordinairy advances in technology it would take us at least 15 years yet in the sixties America did it 8. I cannot understand this. Its easy for us to get into earths orbit why is it not easy for us to fly to the moon. I mean we have the plans of the machines that did it in 1969.

    Take the formula one testing today. These machines are amazing. Compare them to the machines used in 1969. Yet we cannot go to the moon anymore. It makes no sense. We can fly an unmanned ship to Mars no problem but we cant fly a manned ship to the moon.

    I am often laughed at for my views but I am quite an logical person and in the words of Spock.............. "

    My answer to the above:

    Since we are veering into conspiracy theory, the answer is yes humans did go to the moon.

    And as to technological development, you forget than during war periods or cold war periods, government investment in technology and industrial development is always huge, which results in a boost to technological development.
    Here look at the cold war effect on the NASA budget:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA

    The computers we use are the direct descendants of the apollo command module computer, with out the cold war there would have been no space race and no modern computers or modern electronics in general.

    Today in an era of peace between major powers investment in technology and industry has slumped and the Economist is moaning about the stagnation of technological progress causing productivity to stagnate in the west.

    As to when humans will go back to the moon the answer is pretty obvious: As soon as the chinese government decides to do so, the americans and the russians will follow in the second space race.



    Met a Russian cosmonaut. Saw many weird and wonderful things in space, the Soviet authorities told him firmly not to talk about what he saw.
  • MP_SE said:

    @MPSE

    "It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it. "

    You are kidding, aren't you?

    Here's the summary.

    http://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/media_centre/press_releases.htm?ref=96525

    And if you have time,read the whole report.

    I may have missed something but I didn't find any mention of Rotherham in the report. Would you be able to provide the page numbers which make reference to CSE in Rotherham. I am sure in time we will have a better idea of who knew what and when.
    I also asked for evidence of where she said something prior to her becoming an MP in November 2012. But she seems to have lived there for 4 years and not left a trace on this.
    How do you know what she did and didn't do?

    She's campaigning now, along with many others. They're getting results. What's your problem?

    It seems as if she is actually doing a hell of a lot more than most. It would be interesting to see what initiatives UKIP has undertaken in this area. I am pretty sure we did not hear much from them on this subject until the full story broke last year, so I am not sure why they expect others to have been involved a lot longer and in a lot more detail.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    20 new SNP selections have just been announced, (courtesy of Angus Robertson's Twitter feed):

    Aberdeen North: Kirsty Blackman.
    Aberdeen South: Callum McCaig.
    Argyll & Bute: Brendan O'Hara.
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh & Selkirk: Calum Kerr.
    Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale & Tweeddale: Emma Harper.
    East Kilbride: Lisa Cameron.
    Edinburgh North & Leith: Deidre Brock.
    Glasgow North East: Anne McLaughlin.
    Glenrothes: Peter Grant.
    Dunfermline & West Fife: Doug Chapman.
    Inverclyde: Ronnie Cowan.
    Lanark & Hamilton East: Angela Crawley.
    Midlothian: Owen Thompson.
    Motherwell & Wishaw: Marion Fellows.
    North Ayrshire & Arran: Patricia Gibson.
    Linlithgow & East Falkirk: Martyn Day.
    Paisley & Renfrewshire North: Gavin Newlands.
    Paisley & Renfrewshire South: Mhairi Black.
    West Dunbartonshire: Martin Docherty.
    West Aberdeenshire & Kincardine: Stu Donaldson.

    https://twitter.com/moraymp
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AndyJS said:

    20 new SNP selections have just been announced, (courtesy of Angus Robertson's Twitter feed):

    Aberdeen North: Kirsty Blackman.
    Aberdeen South: Callum McCaig.
    Argyll & Bute: Brendan O'Hara.
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh & Selkirk: Calum Kerr.
    Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale & Tweeddale: Emma Harper.
    East Kilbride: Lisa Cameron.
    Edinburgh North & Leith: Deidre Brock.
    Glasgow North East: Anne McLaughlin.
    Glenrothes: Peter Grant.
    Dunfermline & West Fife: Doug Chapman.
    Inverclyde: Ronnie Cowan.
    Lanark & Hamilton East: Angela Crawley.
    Midlothian: Owen Thompson.
    Motherwell & Wishaw: Marion Fellows.
    North Ayrshire & Arran: Patricia Gibson.
    Linlithgow & East Falkirk: Martyn Day.
    Paisley & Renfrewshire North: Gavin Newlands.
    Paisley & Renfrewshire South: Mhairi Black.
    West Dunbartonshire: Martin Docherty.
    West Aberdeenshire & Kincardine: Stu Donaldson.

    https://twitter.com/moraymp

    How many of them will be MPs in a few months?!
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited February 2015

    MP_SE said:

    @MPSE

    "It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it. "

    You are kidding, aren't you?

    Here's the summary.

    http://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/media_centre/press_releases.htm?ref=96525

    And if you have time,read the whole report.

    I may have missed something but I didn't find any mention of Rotherham in the report. Would you be able to provide the page numbers which make reference to CSE in Rotherham? I am sure in time we will have a better idea of who knew what and when.
    Rotherham is just a part of the bigger picture. Here's the link to the report:

    www.barnardos.org.uk_cse_parliamentary_inquiry_report-2.pdf

    One of the issues raised in the by-election which Sarah Champion won, was the failure to protect young girls in Rotherham from child abuse. This was in 2012 so what has she been doing in her constituency since then? Has she kickstarted any initiatives or tried to raise public awareness on the issues facing her constituents? As I understand it the organisation Risky Business was declined council support and did not re-open recently despite everything that has occurred. I will take back my comments if wrong.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    MP_SE said:

    @MPSE

    "It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it. "

    You are kidding, aren't you?

    Here's the summary.

    http://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/media_centre/press_releases.htm?ref=96525

    And if you have time,read the whole report.

    I may have missed something but I didn't find any mention of Rotherham in the report. Would you be able to provide the page numbers which make reference to CSE in Rotherham. I am sure in time we will have a better idea of who knew what and when.
    I also asked for evidence of where she said something prior to her becoming an MP in November 2012. But she seems to have lived there for 4 years and not left a trace on this.
    How do you know what she did and didn't do?

    She's campaigning now, along with many others. They're getting results. What's your problem?

    It seems as if she is actually doing a hell of a lot more than most.
    I had a quick look on her entry at "They Work for You". It's very impressive (and that doesnt include the report PtP linked to). Posters trying to use this as political capital against her are stooping incredibly low.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    MP_SE said:

    This was in 2012 so what has she been doing in her constituency since then?

    Why dont you just google it?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    FalseFlag said:

    Met a Russian cosmonaut. Saw many weird and wonderful things in space, the Soviet authorities told him firmly not to talk about what he saw.

    During FSB training, I assume.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Around 80% IMO.
    Neil said:

    AndyJS said:

    20 new SNP selections have just been announced, (courtesy of Angus Robertson's Twitter feed):

    Aberdeen North: Kirsty Blackman.
    Aberdeen South: Callum McCaig.
    Argyll & Bute: Brendan O'Hara.
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh & Selkirk: Calum Kerr.
    Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale & Tweeddale: Emma Harper.
    East Kilbride: Lisa Cameron.
    Edinburgh North & Leith: Deidre Brock.
    Glasgow North East: Anne McLaughlin.
    Glenrothes: Peter Grant.
    Dunfermline & West Fife: Doug Chapman.
    Inverclyde: Ronnie Cowan.
    Lanark & Hamilton East: Angela Crawley.
    Midlothian: Owen Thompson.
    Motherwell & Wishaw: Marion Fellows.
    North Ayrshire & Arran: Patricia Gibson.
    Linlithgow & East Falkirk: Martyn Day.
    Paisley & Renfrewshire North: Gavin Newlands.
    Paisley & Renfrewshire South: Mhairi Black.
    West Dunbartonshire: Martin Docherty.
    West Aberdeenshire & Kincardine: Stu Donaldson.

    https://twitter.com/moraymp

    How many of them will be MPs in a few months?!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2015

    MP_SE said:

    @MPSE

    "It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it. "

    You are kidding, aren't you?

    Here's the summary.

    http://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/media_centre/press_releases.htm?ref=96525

    And if you have time,read the whole report.

    I may have missed something but I didn't find any mention of Rotherham in the report. Would you be able to provide the page numbers which make reference to CSE in Rotherham. I am sure in time we will have a better idea of who knew what and when.
    I also asked for evidence of where she said something prior to her becoming an MP in November 2012. But she seems to have lived there for 4 years and not left a trace on this.
    How do you know what she did and didn't do?

    She's campaigning now, along with many others. They're getting results. What's your problem?

    It seems as if she is actually doing a hell of a lot more than most. It would be interesting to see what initiatives UKIP has undertaken in this area. I am pretty sure we did not hear much from them on this subject until the full story broke last year, so I am not sure why they expect others to have been involved a lot longer and in a lot more detail.


    Eh? Maybe UKIP didn't know the extent of it until the full story broke last year?

    Nick Griffin mentioned it in 2005.. he got put in court for inciting racial hatred.. might have put people off mentioning it, especially if they get called racist all the time anyway

    Social workers that tried to do something were sent on diversity courses, while UKIP members were banned from fostering children by Rotherham council for being UKIP supporters

    Labour were the ones that covered it up so that's probably why they weren't doing much about it
  • MP_SE said:

    @MPSE

    "It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it. "

    You are kidding, aren't you?

    Here's the summary.

    http://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/media_centre/press_releases.htm?ref=96525

    And if you have time,read the whole report.

    I may have missed something but I didn't find any mention of Rotherham in the report. Would you be able to provide the page numbers which make reference to CSE in Rotherham. I am sure in time we will have a better idea of who knew what and when.
    I also asked for evidence of where she said something prior to her becoming an MP in November 2012. But she seems to have lived there for 4 years and not left a trace on this.
    She entered public life when she became a Labour candidate.
    (and in response to PtP) OK, how about showing one leaflet from her by election campaign that shows her concern for the problem of abuse in Rotherham?
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    edited February 2015
    Speedy said:

    currystar said:



    Out of interest, do you believe Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?

    @currystar
    "I am one of those loonies who doesn't bellieve he did. What could man do in 1972 that man cannot do know from a technological standpoint. Answer :Leave earths orbit. Does anyone else not think thats a bit weird. ...

    If we tried to go back to the moon now despite the extraordinairy advances in technology it would take us at least 15 years yet in the sixties America did it 8. I cannot understand this. Its easy for us to get into earths orbit why is it not easy for us to fly to the moon. I mean we have the plans of the machines that did it in 1969.

    I am often laughed at for my views but I am quite an logical person and in the words of Spock..............
    "

    My answer to the above:

    Since we are veering into conspiracy theory, the answer is yes humans did go to the moon.

    And as to technological development, you forget than during war periods or cold war periods, government investment in technology and industrial development is always huge, which results in a boost to technological development.
    Here look at the cold war effect on the NASA budget:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA

    ...

    As to when humans will go back to the moon the answer is pretty obvious: As soon as the chinese government decides to do so, the americans and the russians will follow in the second space race.

    EDIT (Flightpath comments...)
    Of course we went to the moon - several times and at huge expense and for little return. It was a great scientific but not economic success.
    The cost of sending a huge rocket out of the earth's gravity into orbit with a tiny payload, 3 men and a bit of kit is enormous. The USA went down something of a dead end with advanced 'technology' (ie Spaceshuttle) which was not as reusable and far from as reliable as intended.
    The returns are better in earth orbit ie the space station.
    We are not going to the moon because there is no point - the cost of going to the moon in a meaningful way would be truly enormous and is waiting for better technology than Saturn V and chemical rockets.
    As a world we will have to be much much more wealthy and unified to start real space exploration.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    edited February 2015
    FalseFlag said:

    Speedy said:

    currystar said:



    Out of interest, do you believe Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?

    @currystar
    "I am one of those loonies who doesn't bellieve he did. What could man do in 1972 that man cannot do know from a technological standpoint. Answer :Leave earths orbit. Does anyone else not think thats a bit weird. The highest the space shuttle ever got to was 380 miles yet in 1969 man went 250,000 miles to the moon, landed and orbitted the moon at the same time, then blasted off from the moon, docked with an orbitting craft going at 20000 mph and flew home. This was in a machine made of silver foil and with less computer power than a ZX Spectrum.

    If we tried to go back to the moon now despite the extraordinairy advances in technology it would take us at least 15 years yet in the sixties America did it 8. I cannot understand this. Its easy for us to get into earths orbit why is it not easy for us to fly to the moon. I mean we have the plans of the machines that did it in 1969.

    Take the formula one testing today. These machines are amazing. Compare them to the machines used in 1969. Yet we cannot go to the moon anymore. It makes no sense. We can fly an unmanned ship to Mars no problem but we cant fly a manned ship to the moon.

    I am often laughed at for my views but I am quite an logical person and in the words of Spock.............. "

    My answer to the above:

    Since we are veering into conspiracy theory, the answer is yes humans did go to the moon.

    And as to technological development, you forget than during war periods or cold war periods, government investment in technology and industrial development is always huge, which results in a boost to technological development.
    Here look at the cold war effect on the NASA budget:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA

    The computers we use are the direct descendants of the apollo command module computer, with out the cold war there would have been no space race and no modern computers or modern electronics in general.

    Today in an era of peace between major powers investment in technology and industry has slumped and the Economist is moaning about the stagnation of technological progress causing productivity to stagnate in the west.

    As to when humans will go back to the moon the answer is pretty obvious: As soon as the chinese government decides to do so, the americans and the russians will follow in the second space race.
    Met a Russian cosmonaut. Saw many weird and wonderful things in space, the Soviet authorities told him firmly not to talk about what he saw.
    Have the USA yet seeded the moon with the discarded hardware "evidence" of the faked landings? If not it's going to be a major "let's all laugh at America" moment when the second wave of the space race finds nothing there.

  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Neil said:

    MP_SE said:

    This was in 2012 so what has she been doing in her constituency since then?

    Why dont you just google it?
    I cannot find anything. Maybe someone knows something I don't?

  • MP_SE said:

    @MPSE

    "It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it. "

    You are kidding, aren't you?

    Here's the summary.

    http://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/media_centre/press_releases.htm?ref=96525

    And if you have time,read the whole report.

    I may have missed something but I didn't find any mention of Rotherham in the report. Would you be able to provide the page numbers which make reference to CSE in Rotherham. I am sure in time we will have a better idea of who knew what and when.
    I also asked for evidence of where she said something prior to her becoming an MP in November 2012. But she seems to have lived there for 4 years and not left a trace on this.
    How do you know what she did and didn't do?

    She's campaigning now, along with many others. They're getting results. What's your problem?

    It seems as if she is actually doing a hell of a lot more than most. It would be interesting to see what initiatives UKIP has undertaken in this area. I am pretty sure we did not hear much from them on this subject until the full story broke last year, so I am not sure why they expect others to have been involved a lot longer and in a lot more detail.

    Rotherham, that will be the place where the disgraced Thacker and the Labour council took foster kids off a couple because they were UKIP members. They were more concerned with their pathetic PC agenda than the welfare of the children.

    Hopefully now UKIP are giving the voters there an alternative to the PC madness that has claimed 1,400 child victims.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Redcar is one of the few nailed-on Labour gains at GE2015. Maybe they want to change that...
    dr_spyn said:
  • isam said:

    MP_SE said:

    @MPSE

    "It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it. "

    You are kidding, aren't you?

    Here's the summary.

    http://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/media_centre/press_releases.htm?ref=96525

    And if you have time,read the whole report.

    I may have missed something but I didn't find any mention of Rotherham in the report. Would you be able to provide the page numbers which make reference to CSE in Rotherham. I am sure in time we will have a better idea of who knew what and when.
    I also asked for evidence of where she said something prior to her becoming an MP in November 2012. But she seems to have lived there for 4 years and not left a trace on this.
    How do you know what she did and didn't do?

    She's campaigning now, along with many others. They're getting results. What's your problem?

    It seems as if she is actually doing a hell of a lot more than most. It would be interesting to see what initiatives UKIP has undertaken in this area. I am pretty sure we did not hear much from them on this subject until the full story broke last year, so I am not sure why they expect others to have been involved a lot longer and in a lot more detail.


    Eh? Maybe UKIP didn't know the extent of it until the full story broke last year?

    Nick Griffin mentioned it in 2005.. he got put in court for inciting racial hatred.. might have put people off mentioning it, especially if they get called racist all the time anyway

    Social workers that tried to do something were sent on diversity courses, while UKIP members were banned from fostering children by Rotherham council for being UKIP supporters

    Labour were the ones that covered it up so that's probably why they weren't doing much about it

    What is UKIP doing now? What are its policies? How does it believe sexual abuse of children can be minimised?

    I accept all your points about Labour. But what is UKIP doing beyond - understandably - pointing the finger?

    If Nick Griffin had not been so focused on white supremacy, anti-Semitism and other forms of race-based politics he may have been taken more seriously. Tragically, it was an avowed racist who did first speak out on this and because of his track record of incitement he was ignored.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    The victims - vulnerable, inarticulate, socially awkward, poorly educated, sometimes aggressive because they have learned that is the only way to get attention, sometimes totally meek because they just want to hide away from the world, often from broken homes - are seen as a "problem", and what they say is discounted or they are seen to have deserved what they got. It's easier than having to investigate and do anything about it. Look at any child abuse scandal from any decade and it is the same. Children who say they have been abused are either not believed or they are ignored. Those who want to abuse children, and such people have also existed in large numbers for hundreds of years, take advantage of this.

    In Rotherham and other places the abusers also took advantage of the poisonous culture built up around political correctness. They knew that this would protect them from scrutiny - either because people were genuinely (and wrongly) concerned not to offend perceived cultural sensitivities or, just as often (if not more so), because it gave people an excuse not to get involved. That's the perniciousness of politically correct culture - like data protection, like health and safety, it is a catch-all that gets people off the hook. And the left is responsible for it. There is just no getting round it. We took something that had its roots in the right place and let it become all-pervasive: a shield for the wicked, the indifferent and the lazy to hide behind. That is to our shame and we should admit it.

    However, if we just see this as a case of PC gone mad we will not solve anything, because child abusers will use whatever tools they can. If it's not PC, if it's not indifference, it will be something else. We need to look at how children arrive at a place that makes them vulnerable to sexual predators in the first place and we need to tackle those things head on. That may mean early intervention, it will probably mean more money spent on social care and training, it will require close monitoring in schools, as well as detailed oversight of the police and agencies.

    Of course, Labour will get a battering over this and that is absolutely as it should be. My guess, though, is that similar things will have happened in one form or another in Tory shires and in LibDem university towns. Child abuse is not new, it is not limited and it is not restricted to certain ethnicities or religions. So, while politicians will rightly condemn what has happened and will legitimately attack their opponents, also listen to what they have to say about future prevention. It's not enough to say we will not be PC, because it is not PC that causes abuse and never has been.

    An excellent post SO.

  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Ishmael_X said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Speedy said:

    currystar said:



    Out of interest, do you believe Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?

    @currystar
    "I am one of those loonies who doesn't bellieve he did. What could man do in 1972 that man cannot do know from a technological standpoint. Answer :Leave earths orbit. Does anyone else not think thats a bit weird. The highest the space shuttle ever got to was 380 miles yet in 1969 man went 250,000 miles to the moon, landed and orbitted the moon at the same time, then blasted off from the moon, docked with an orbitting craft going at 20000 mph and flew home. This was in a machine made of silver foil and with less computer power than a ZX Spectrum.


    My answer to the above:

    Since we are veering into conspiracy theory, the answer is yes humans did go to the moon.

    And as to technological development, you forget than during war periods or cold war periods, government investment in technology and industrial development is always huge, which results in a boost to technological development.
    Here look at the cold war effect on the NASA budget:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA

    The computers we use are the direct descendants of the apollo command module computer, with out the cold war there would have been no space race and no modern computers or modern electronics in general.

    Today in an era of peace between major powers investment in technology and industry has slumped and the Economist is moaning about the stagnation of technological progress causing productivity to stagnate in the west.

    As to when humans will go back to the moon the answer is pretty obvious: As soon as the chinese government decides to do so, the americans and the russians will follow in the second space race.
    Met a Russian cosmonaut. Saw many weird and wonderful things in space, the Soviet authorities told him firmly not to talk about what he saw.
    Have the USA yet seeded the moon with the discarded hardware "evidence" of the faked landings? If not it's going to be a major "let's all laugh at America" moment when the second wave of the space race finds nothing there.

    http://www.universetoday.com/113359/what-does-the-apollo-11-landing-site-look-like-today/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_evidence_for_Apollo_Moon_landings
  • Ishmael_X said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Met a Russian cosmonaut. Saw many weird and wonderful things in space, the Soviet authorities told him firmly not to talk about what he saw.

    Have the USA yet seeded the moon with the discarded hardware "evidence" of the faked landings? If not it's going to be a major "let's all laugh at America" moment when the second wave of the space race finds nothing there.
    Causes a bit of a quandary for the conspiracy theorists, that one. What evidence would they be able to rely on that the "second" wave had actually been to the Moon to find that the Apollo missions hadn't?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    London news reporting that by 2021, congestion on London's road will increase by 20%.

    Just how much more immigration can we take?
  • Neil said:

    MP_SE said:

    @MPSE

    "It is disgusting to see Sarah Champion finally bothering to do something about it. "

    You are kidding, aren't you?

    Here's the summary.

    http://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/media_centre/press_releases.htm?ref=96525

    And if you have time,read the whole report.

    I may have missed something but I didn't find any mention of Rotherham in the report. Would you be able to provide the page numbers which make reference to CSE in Rotherham. I am sure in time we will have a better idea of who knew what and when.
    I also asked for evidence of where she said something prior to her becoming an MP in November 2012. But she seems to have lived there for 4 years and not left a trace on this.
    How do you know what she did and didn't do?

    She's campaigning now, along with many others. They're getting results. What's your problem?

    It seems as if she is actually doing a hell of a lot more than most.
    I had a quick look on her entry at "They Work for You". It's very impressive (and that doesnt include the report PtP linked to). Posters trying to use this as political capital against her are stooping incredibly low.

    Indeed. You'd have thought that the best way to get to grips with the sexual abuse of children in this country is to encourage all people of goodwill in all parties to work together to find solutions. Sarah Champion has clearly demonstrated she is one of those.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited February 2015
    Robert Kimbell ‏@RedHotSquirrel 13m13 minutes ago
    #Labour in #Redcar in meltdown as ten councillors resign from the party. http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/watch-council-leader-tears-up-8580437 … #Teesside

    When this happens to UKIP, there is a big fuss made by all on main stream party supporters on PB that UKIP is a joke, well the joke is truly on Labour today.

    1. Scotland
    2. Rotherham
    3. Redcar
  • So who is the one person certain to vote Lib Dem in Motherwell?

    http://livingonwords.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/so-who-is-one-person-certain-to-vote.html
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Socrates said:

    London news reporting that by 2021, congestion on London's road will increase by 20%.

    Just how much more immigration can we take?

    If you moved out we could take one more.
This discussion has been closed.