"That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either. "
Only a Tory would find that effective in the same way a non Tory would find a mug shot of Cameron and 'Five More Years' (or any variation thereof) effective
It's a brutal personal attack on someone who is widely thought to be not up to the job. The Conservatives are going to make Ed Miliband's abysmal public image a centrepiece of their campaign. I expect this is just a warm-up.
To answer Old King Cole's point: I don't think Alex Salmond is particularly unpopular in England. But the idea is that Ed Miliband will be duped by a smarter operator.
Hmmm. I thought the Tories were bringing in the bogeyman who almost took Scotland out the Union. If your message isn't clear .......
"That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either. "
Only a Tory would find that effective in the same way a non Tory would find a mug shot of Cameron and 'Five More Years' (or any variation thereof) effective
It's a brutal personal attack on someone who is widely thought to be not up to the job. The Conservatives are going to make Ed Miliband's abysmal public image a centrepiece of their campaign. I expect this is just a warm-up.
To answer Old King Cole's point: I don't think Alex Salmond is particularly unpopular in England. But the idea is that Ed Miliband will be duped by a smarter operator.
Hmmm. I thought the Tories were bringing in the bogeyman who almost took Scotland out the Union. If your message isn't clear .......
The message is very clear: it's that Ed Miliband is crap. Though as Tissue Price says, they won't put it in exactly those words.
The Lib Dems won't challenge the debate format. A bad debate format is better than no debates for the Lib Dems. The debates are one of the few possible game-changers that they have.
Not sure about that..Just recall what happened when Clegg took on Farage..he was soundly spanked. Best maybe to keep hos head down and the LDs keep him off their leaflets.
What a strange take Mike has come up with. It's obviously not Cameron who might be tempted to refuse the invitation. Out of Miliband, Farage, Clegg and Cameron, the happiest with the proposed new format is Cameron.
The losers in this are the Lib Dems & Farage. Oh and Ed probably isn't too happy about the exposure given to the left wing alternatives.
The massive winners are Plaid. Lucky buggers.
Of course, this analysis starts from the premise of the initial debate proposal, in which Cameron was a massive loser. In net terms he still is, compared to no debates at all, but I don't think that was ever a massive runner, notwithstanding any legal impediment.
Sure. The debates, in some form, were always going to happen. Dave's strategy had to be;
A ) Minimise UKIP's exposure B ) Boost the SNP/Greens/Plaid
He's played his hand well so far.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am definitely not a tory. I've only voted tory once, when they had the least worst candidate in the ridiculous PCC election.
The losers in this are the Lib Dems & Farage. Oh and Ed probably isn't too happy about the exposure given to the left wing alternatives.
The massive winners are Plaid. Lucky buggers.
Of course, this analysis starts from the premise of the initial debate proposal, in which Cameron was a massive loser. In net terms he still is, compared to no debates at all, but I don't think that was ever a massive runner, notwithstanding any legal impediment.
Sure. The debates, in some form, were always going to happen. Dave's strategy had to be;
A ) Minimise UKIP's exposure B ) Boost the SNP/Greens/Plaid
He's played his hand well so far.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am definitely not a tory. I've only voted tory once, when they had the least worst candidate in the ridiculous PCC election.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
Quite. Not sure if it will fill any authentic Unionists with joy though.
Why not. I don't think many unionists support the SNP?
Er, d'ye think that poster will discourage Scots from voting SNP, or the reverse?
Authentic Unionists speak.
alexmassie @alexmassie 1 hr1 hour ago An immensely stupid Tory poster. Encouraging SNP votes is a short-term - but hugely expensive - political plan.
Chris Deerin @chrisdeerin 37m37 minutes ago @montie@NickCohen4@alexmassie yep, and it all pushes us further apart. This is not a unionist strategy, it is an independence strategy
What a strange take Mike has come up with. It's obviously not Cameron who might be tempted to refuse the invitation. Out of Miliband, Farage, Clegg and Cameron, the happiest with the proposed new format is Cameron.
Hardly, Cameron is the only one threatening to flounce so far.
The Lib Dems won't challenge the debate format. A bad debate format is better than no debates for the Lib Dems. The debates are one of the few possible game-changers that they have.
Not sure about that..Just recall what happened when Clegg took on Farage..he was soundly spanked. Best maybe to keep hos head down and the LDs keep him off their leaflets.
Nah, UKIP is a gift to the Lib Dems. Clegg is at his absolute best when he's arguing liberal principles. It goes down well, especially with women in the university/middle classy seats that the LD's are trying to hold.
What a strange take Mike has come up with. It's obviously not Cameron who might be tempted to refuse the invitation. Out of Miliband, Farage, Clegg and Cameron, the happiest with the proposed new format is Cameron.
Ed won't want this and is hoping Cam will refuse first.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
Quite. Not sure if it will fill any authentic Unionists with joy though.
Why not. I don't think many unionists support the SNP?
Er, d'ye think that poster will discourage Scots from voting SNP, or the reverse?
Authentic Unionists speak.
alexmassie @alexmassie 1 hr1 hour ago An immensely stupid Tory poster. Encouraging SNP votes is a short-term - but hugely expensive - political plan.
Chris Deerin @chrisdeerin 37m37 minutes ago @montie@NickCohen4@alexmassie yep, and it all pushes us further apart. This is not a unionist strategy, it is an independence strategy
Except that the IndyRef caused a huge change in English attitudes. We're just fed up of appeasing you Scots any more. If you're part of the UK, you're part of the UK. We're not going to go easy on unpopular politicians because of the constant fear you'll leave.
Let me have men about me that are fat, Sleek-headed men and such as sleep a-nights. Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look. He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous.
Perhaps The Tories will re-use David Low - 'Someone is taking someone for a walk'.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
Quite. Not sure if it will fill any authentic Unionists with joy though.
Why not. I don't think many unionists support the SNP?
Er, d'ye think that poster will discourage Scots from voting SNP, or the reverse?
Authentic Unionists speak.
alexmassie @alexmassie 1 hr1 hour ago An immensely stupid Tory poster. Encouraging SNP votes is a short-term - but hugely expensive - political plan.
Chris Deerin @chrisdeerin 37m37 minutes ago @montie@NickCohen4@alexmassie yep, and it all pushes us further apart. This is not a unionist strategy, it is an independence strategy
I'm clearly a moron because I can't see how that is encouraging SNP votes, or are you saying that SLab voters may be swayed by the description of Ed as 'your worst nightmare'. And anyway, is it even being shown in Scotland?
Not something I say often, but well done Ruth Davidson.
Ruth Davidson MSP @RuthDavidsonMSP 53m53 minutes ago Flying flags at half mast on gov buildings for the death of Saudi king is a steaming pile of nonsense. That is all.
Hardly, Cameron is the only one threatening to flounce so far.
Cameron held his nerve and called the others' bluff (and in the process got them to write letters, in identical terms, agreeing that they'd accept whoever the broadcasters proposed, so they now have no wriggle room). In public he said he thought it only fair that the Greens should be invited. The Greens have been invited. To make it even better, Ed's now going to have Nicola's teeth round his ankles.
And this is somehow bad news for Cameron, and evidence that he screwed up?
What a strange take Mike has come up with. It's obviously not Cameron who might be tempted to refuse the invitation. Out of Miliband, Farage, Clegg and Cameron, the happiest with the proposed new format is Cameron.
Ed won't want this and is hoping Cam will refuse first.
Like Nick Clegg, Ed Miliband needs the debates to have a chance of changing public perceptions of him. This format is far worse for him than the previous model but still better than not having debates at all.
David Cameron remains the person with most to lose from the debates, but he should accept these now. The dangers of the final head-to-head with Ed Miliband are compensated for by the very decent chance that Ed Miliband may find himself pulled in four different progressive directions in the first two debates.
"It's a brutal personal attack on someone who is widely thought to be not up to the job. The Conservatives are going to make Ed Miliband's abysmal public image a centrepiece of their campaign. I expect this is just a warm-up."
I happen to think the Tories are going to get a majority. Everything in the world that could be going well for them at the moment is going well.
The only chink of light for Labour that I can see is Cameron's arrogance and poor judgement. Showing a picture of his opponent in an attempt to ridicule him feeds the idea of a Bullingdon Boy doing what Bullingdon Boys do.
If he had no positive message then scrape the barrel. Any distraction would do . But as he has it's folly and what's more if this election comes down to who can most effectively ridicule their opponent and I was Cameron I wouldn't be feeling confident.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
How unpopular is Salmond in England? I would have thought he could be seen as a shrewd operator who might rein in some of Labour's wilder ideas. And he has experience of being a very significant part of an effective government!
What we're not seeing here is balanced discussion of whether the SNP policies might actually appeal to the English as useful models for their own polity. Not that it is much use to the SNP, admittedly.
What a strange take Mike has come up with. It's obviously not Cameron who might be tempted to refuse the invitation. Out of Miliband, Farage, Clegg and Cameron, the happiest with the proposed new format is Cameron.
Well EIC agreed to take part straight away yesterday.
Dave is deciding if he can find another excuse or prevaricating isn't he?
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
How unpopular is Salmond in England? I would have thought he could be seen as a shrewd operator who might rein in some of Labour's wilder ideas. And he has experience of being a very significant part of an effective government!
What we're not seeing here is balanced discussion of whether the SNP policies might actually appeal to the English as useful models for their own polity. Not that it is much use to the SNP, admittedly.
I imagine we'll be hearing the list of concessions the SNP want as a price of propping up a Labour government. Should be enough to make some people pretty irked at the SNP's amazing ability to extract powers from Westminster.
What a strange take Mike has come up with. It's obviously not Cameron who might be tempted to refuse the invitation. Out of Miliband, Farage, Clegg and Cameron, the happiest with the proposed new format is Cameron.
Well EIC agreed to take part straight away yesterday.
Dave is deciding if he can find another excuse or prevaricating isn't he?
Don't be silly, of course he's not. He's trying not to seem too embarrasingly delighted with the new proposals, which are even better than he could have hoped for.
Hardly, Cameron is the only one threatening to flounce so far.
Cameron held his nerve and called the others' bluff (and in the process got them to write letters, in identical terms, agreeing that they'd accept whoever the broadcasters proposed, so they now have no wriggle room). In public he said he thought it only fair that the Greens should be invited. The Greens have been invited. To make it even better, Ed's now going to have Nicola's teeth round his ankles.
And this is somehow bad news for Cameron, and evidence that he screwed up?
What planet are people living on?
Cameron is playing games. A tactician, not a leader or a statesman.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
How unpopular is Salmond in England? I would have thought he could be seen as a shrewd operator who might rein in some of Labour's wilder ideas. And he has experience of being a very significant part of an effective government!
What we're not seeing here is balanced discussion of whether the SNP policies might actually appeal to the English as useful models for their own polity. Not that it is much use to the SNP, admittedly.
I imagine we'll be hearing the list of concessions the SNP want as a price of propping up a Labour government. Should be enough to make some people pretty irked at the SNP's amazing ability to extract powers from Westminster.
Cameron is playing games. A tactician, not a leader or a statesman.
Playing the political game (and winning this round). What on earth else do you expect a politician to do? The debates are all about jostling for advantage.
Not something I say often, but well done Ruth Davidson.
Ruth Davidson MSP @RuthDavidsonMSP 53m53 minutes ago Flying flags at half mast on gov buildings for the death of Saudi king is a steaming pile of nonsense. That is all.
This the same person who has been so gleeful about the oil price cut?
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
Quite. Not sure if it will fill any authentic Unionists with joy though.
Why not. I don't think many unionists support the SNP?
Er, d'ye think that poster will discourage Scots from voting SNP, or the reverse?
Authentic Unionists speak.
alexmassie @alexmassie 1 hr1 hour ago An immensely stupid Tory poster. Encouraging SNP votes is a short-term - but hugely expensive - political plan.
Chris Deerin @chrisdeerin 37m37 minutes ago @montie@NickCohen4@alexmassie yep, and it all pushes us further apart. This is not a unionist strategy, it is an independence strategy
I'm clearly a moron because I can't see how that is encouraging SNP votes, or are you saying that SLab voters may be swayed by the description of Ed as 'your worst nightmare'. And anyway, is it even being shown in Scotland?
Is it even being shown anywhere?
Posters are basically viral now. I assume it's not much more sophisticated than someone in head office loading up photoshop, pressing ctrl+P then renting a roving billboard for a couple of hours to find the nearest TV news crew.
Probably costs about £100 all in. The internet does the rest.
Hardly, Cameron is the only one threatening to flounce so far.
Cameron held his nerve and called the others' bluff (and in the process got them to write letters, in identical terms, agreeing that they'd accept whoever the broadcasters proposed, so they now have no wriggle room). In public he said he thought it only fair that the Greens should be invited. The Greens have been invited. To make it even better, Ed's now going to have Nicola's teeth round his ankles.
And this is somehow bad news for Cameron, and evidence that he screwed up?
What planet are people living on?
Cameron is playing games. A tactician, not a leader or a statesman.
Hardly, Cameron is the only one threatening to flounce so far.
Cameron held his nerve and called the others' bluff (and in the process got them to write letters, in identical terms, agreeing that they'd accept whoever the broadcasters proposed, so they now have no wriggle room). In public he said he thought it only fair that the Greens should be invited. The Greens have been invited. To make it even better, Ed's now going to have Nicola's teeth round his ankles.
And this is somehow bad news for Cameron, and evidence that he screwed up?
What planet are people living on?
Cameron is playing games. A tactician, not a leader or a statesman.
So Cameron has negotiated well? And Miliband has somehow ended up with a far worse outcome? No further questions, Your Honour.
Hardly, Cameron is the only one threatening to flounce so far.
Cameron held his nerve and called the others' bluff (and in the process got them to write letters, in identical terms, agreeing that they'd accept whoever the broadcasters proposed, so they now have no wriggle room). In public he said he thought it only fair that the Greens should be invited. The Greens have been invited. To make it even better, Ed's now going to have Nicola's teeth round his ankles.
And this is somehow bad news for Cameron, and evidence that he screwed up?
What planet are people living on?
Cameron is playing games. A tactician, not a leader or a statesman.
It's possible to be statesmanlike about the format of TV debates?
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
Quite. Not sure if it will fill any authentic Unionists with joy though.
Why not. I don't think many unionists support the SNP?
Er, d'ye think that poster will discourage Scots from voting SNP, or the reverse?
Authentic Unionists speak.
alexmassie @alexmassie 1 hr1 hour ago An immensely stupid Tory poster. Encouraging SNP votes is a short-term - but hugely expensive - political plan.
Chris Deerin @chrisdeerin 37m37 minutes ago @montie@NickCohen4@alexmassie yep, and it all pushes us further apart. This is not a unionist strategy, it is an independence strategy
I'm clearly a moron because I can't see how that is encouraging SNP votes, or are you saying that SLab voters may be swayed by the description of Ed as 'your worst nightmare'. And anyway, is it even being shown in Scotland?
'This poster reminds us of this. Sure, it’s aimed at English voters but it will leach into Scotland too. And here it tells Scots to vote for the Nationalists. Let us count some of the ways in which it does so: 1. Vote SNP and they’ll be in government! 2. We, the Conservatives, are afraid of the SNP. (Subliminal message to Scots: so you know what to do, don’t you?) 3. And most importantly, it frames the election as a battle between Scotland and England in which the latter is menaced by the former. It pits the two largest parts of the Union against one another. Which, of course, is exactly how the SNP likes it; precisely how the SNP sees the election – and the future of Britain – too.'
Apart from anything else, polling in Scotland shows a governing arrangement between Labour & the SNP is the preferred GE outcome. Man (or woman) on Possil omnibus sees poster, scratches head and wonders what's the best way to get that to happen.
Mr. Jonathan, tactics win battles. Being good at tactics isn't a bad thing. Strategy, logistics and diplomacy also matter, of course, but it's no bad thing being skilled (or seeking to be skilled) at tactics.
Hmm. I still dislike the broadcasters trying to be the tail that wags the dog. There are questions over Northern Irish parties as well, and Clegg must be livid with the situation.
Cameron isn't the only leader with a decision to make.
Agree. re the broadcasters.
That said, I genuinely can't think what the best situation would be. Cam, EdM, Nick, Farage is probably it, which the broadcasters came up with.
Although it benefits him and the Cons, in the light of the farce that "the debates" is becoming, I believe Cam/Lynton misplayed this.
Cameron's team are doing fine. They've got the debates including three Labour competitors, and the only downside is incredibly minor damage for looking like they want to duck them, which everyone will have forgotten about in a week.
As mentioned to @Morris_Dancer I believe he has tactically played a blinder. For himself. And I suppose that was the aim.
But I think that he has caused mayhem and diminished the democratic process by politicking.
I would be interested to know the ideal line-up as determined by PB consensus, should such a think exist.
I think: Cam, EdM, Nige, Nick.
I don't see any ideal line-up. The current proposal is as good a practical suggestion as we're likely to get. But it is very generous to the Greens in particular, and to a lesser extent Plaid Cymru.
Ynys Mons is my tip for Plaid - 2/1 at Ladbrokes and it was 12/5 yesterday with Hills.
They have a very good chance of taking the seat from Labour IMHO.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
Quite. Not sure if it will fill any authentic Unionists with joy though.
Why not. I don't think many unionists support the SNP?
Er, d'ye think that poster will discourage Scots from voting SNP, or the reverse?
Authentic Unionists speak.
alexmassie @alexmassie 1 hr1 hour ago An immensely stupid Tory poster. Encouraging SNP votes is a short-term - but hugely expensive - political plan.
Chris Deerin @chrisdeerin 37m37 minutes ago @montie@NickCohen4@alexmassie yep, and it all pushes us further apart. This is not a unionist strategy, it is an independence strategy
I'm clearly a moron because I can't see how that is encouraging SNP votes, or are you saying that SLab voters may be swayed by the description of Ed as 'your worst nightmare'. And anyway, is it even being shown in Scotland?
'This poster reminds us of this. Sure, it’s aimed at English voters but it will leach into Scotland too. And here it tells Scots to vote for the Nationalists. Let us count some of the ways in which it does so: 1. Vote SNP and they’ll be in government! 2. We, the Conservatives, are afraid of the SNP. (Subliminal message to Scots: so you know what to do, don’t you?) 3. And most importantly, it frames the election as a battle between Scotland and England in which the latter is menaced by the former. It pits the two largest parts of the Union against one another. Which, of course, is exactly how the SNP likes it; precisely how the SNP sees the election – and the future of Britain – too.'
Apart from anything else, polling in Scotland shows a governing arrangement between Labour & the SNP is the preferred GE outcome. Man on Possil omnibus sees poster, scratches head and wonders what's the best way to get that to happen.
Fair points, but will the man on the Possil omnibus see the poster? He'd need bloody good eyesight!
I know Farage may not be an MP but at least he is standing to be one... sturgeon isn't even doing that is she?
Sorry if I'm wrong but if she isn't running to be an mp then prob Salmond should be in debates not her
I'd have thought it was up to the Party. Nicola is leader, someone else is leader in Westminster, I understand Eck may be leading their GE campaign. Could be any, really. Sturgeon would be entirely eligible to be a cabinet minister in the event of the SNP being in government.
Not something I say often, but well done Ruth Davidson.
Ruth Davidson MSP @RuthDavidsonMSP 53m53 minutes ago Flying flags at half mast on gov buildings for the death of Saudi king is a steaming pile of nonsense. That is all.
This the same person who has been so gleeful about the oil price cut?
You have to leven the brickbats with the occasional bouquet.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
How unpopular is Salmond in England? I would have thought he could be seen as a shrewd operator who might rein in some of Labour's wilder ideas. And he has experience of being a very significant part of an effective government!
What we're not seeing here is balanced discussion of whether the SNP policies might actually appeal to the English as useful models for their own polity. Not that it is much use to the SNP, admittedly.
I imagine we'll be hearing the list of concessions the SNP want as a price of propping up a Labour government. Should be enough to make some people pretty irked at the SNP's amazing ability to extract powers from Westminster.
No, you misunderstand me: if the SNP can do X and Y, and they are popular, then this raises the question of why they are not done in England as well (and you can only argue Barnett consequentials favouring the Scots so far, especially as this was because of population density and rural areas in the first place). An example is the smoking ban in enclosed public places; another is the rationalisation of the stamp duty. Right now we've had a reduction of drink driving limits from 80 units to 50 - which has obviously been so low key in its reception that I've noticed PBers completely unaware it has happened (they'll need to be careful when driving over the border).
The question of who should take place in the debates is now, I think, settled - the acceptance of the various parties is now just a formality, IMO. I don't think the dates are likely to change either, although Cameron did want them earlier. The next question is the order in which they should take place. I haven't given much thought to that aspect, but I expect the parties have.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
How unpopular is Salmond in England? I would have thought he could be seen as a shrewd operator who might rein in some of Labour's wilder ideas. And he has experience of being a very significant part of an effective government!
What we're not seeing here is balanced discussion of whether the SNP policies might actually appeal to the English as useful models for their own polity. Not that it is much use to the SNP, admittedly.
I imagine we'll be hearing the list of concessions the SNP want as a price of propping up a Labour government. Should be enough to make some people pretty irked at the SNP's amazing ability to extract powers from Westminster.
How about Eck as the Sec of State for Energy?
Scotland Secretary, surely? He can have fun twiddling his thumbs given the number of powers his department will have lost in recent years!
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
How unpopular is Salmond in England? I would have thought he could be seen as a shrewd operator who might rein in some of Labour's wilder ideas. And he has experience of being a very significant part of an effective government!
What we're not seeing here is balanced discussion of whether the SNP policies might actually appeal to the English as useful models for their own polity. Not that it is much use to the SNP, admittedly.
LOL
the english could allow themselves to be annexed by Scotland, have their wealth confiscated by Edinburgh and their children made slaves on Burns Night and still wee wifey would come back and say it was a poor deal, she demands more and english craveness disrespects the people of Scotland.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
How unpopular is Salmond in England? I would have thought he could be seen as a shrewd operator who might rein in some of Labour's wilder ideas. And he has experience of being a very significant part of an effective government!
What we're not seeing here is balanced discussion of whether the SNP policies might actually appeal to the English as useful models for their own polity. Not that it is much use to the SNP, admittedly.
LOL
the english could allow themselves to be annexed by Scotland, have their wealth confiscated by Edinburgh and their children made slaves on Burns Night and still wee wifey would come back and say it was a poor deal, she demands more and english craveness disrespects the people of Scotland.
Mr. Jonathan, tactics win battles. Being good at tactics isn't a bad thing. Strategy, logistics and diplomacy also matter, of course, but it's no bad thing being skilled (or seeking to be skilled) at tactics.
Strategy = long-term plans.
Tactics = short-term goals.
You need both; neither one nor the other is "bad".
Not something I say often, but well done Ruth Davidson.
Ruth Davidson MSP @RuthDavidsonMSP 53m53 minutes ago Flying flags at half mast on gov buildings for the death of Saudi king is a steaming pile of nonsense. That is all.
This the same person who has been so gleeful about the oil price cut?
You have to leven the brickbats with the occasional bouquet.
Oh, absolutely, especially if there is some s***e to put on the roses. Still, it sure makes a change.
Hmm. I still dislike the broadcasters trying to be the tail that wags the dog. There are questions over Northern Irish parties as well, and Clegg must be livid with the situation.
Cameron isn't the only leader with a decision to make.
Agree. re the broadcasters.
That said, I genuinely can't think what the best situation would be. Cam, EdM, Nick, Farage is probably it, which the broadcasters came up with.
Although it benefits him and the Cons, in the light of the farce that "the debates" is becoming, I believe Cam/Lynton misplayed this.
Cameron's team are doing fine. They've got the debates including three Labour competitors, and the only downside is incredibly minor damage for looking like they want to duck them, which everyone will have forgotten about in a week.
As mentioned to @Morris_Dancer I believe he has tactically played a blinder. For himself. And I suppose that was the aim.
But I think that he has caused mayhem and diminished the democratic process by politicking.
I would be interested to know the ideal line-up as determined by PB consensus, should such a think exist.
I think: Cam, EdM, Nige, Nick.
I don't see any ideal line-up. The current proposal is as good a practical suggestion as we're likely to get. But it is very generous to the Greens in particular, and to a lesser extent Plaid Cymru.
Ynys Mons is my tip for Plaid - 2/1 at Ladbrokes and it was 12/5 yesterday with Hills.
They have a very good chance of taking the seat from Labour IMHO.
Plaid are worth a look in ceredigion, also.
A chunk of the cleggtastic 2010 lib dem voters have now graduated from the university and been replaced by tuition-fee-paying undergrads.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
How unpopular is Salmond in England? I would have thought he could be seen as a shrewd operator who might rein in some of Labour's wilder ideas. And he has experience of being a very significant part of an effective government!
What we're not seeing here is balanced discussion of whether the SNP policies might actually appeal to the English as useful models for their own polity. Not that it is much use to the SNP, admittedly.
LOL
the english could allow themselves to be annexed by Scotland, have their wealth confiscated by Edinburgh and their children made slaves on Burns Night and still wee wifey would come back and say it was a poor deal, she demands more and english craveness disrespects the people of Scotland.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
Quite. Not sure if it will fill any authentic Unionists with joy though.
Why not. I don't think many unionists support the SNP?
Er, d'ye think that poster will discourage Scots from voting SNP, or the reverse?
Authentic Unionists speak.
alexmassie @alexmassie 1 hr1 hour ago An immensely stupid Tory poster. Encouraging SNP votes is a short-term - but hugely expensive - political plan.
Chris Deerin @chrisdeerin 37m37 minutes ago @montie@NickCohen4@alexmassie yep, and it all pushes us further apart. This is not a unionist strategy, it is an independence strategy
I'm clearly a moron because I can't see how that is encouraging SNP votes, or are you saying that SLab voters may be swayed by the description of Ed as 'your worst nightmare'. And anyway, is it even being shown in Scotland?
'This poster reminds us of this. Sure, it’s aimed at English voters but it will leach into Scotland too. And here it tells Scots to vote for the Nationalists. Let us count some of the ways in which it does so: 1. Vote SNP and they’ll be in government! 2. We, the Conservatives, are afraid of the SNP. (Subliminal message to Scots: so you know what to do, don’t you?) 3. And most importantly, it frames the election as a battle between Scotland and England in which the latter is menaced by the former. It pits the two largest parts of the Union against one another. Which, of course, is exactly how the SNP likes it; precisely how the SNP sees the election – and the future of Britain – too.'
Apart from anything else, polling in Scotland shows a governing arrangement between Labour & the SNP is the preferred GE outcome. Man on Possil omnibus sees poster, scratches head and wonders what's the best way to get that to happen.
Fair points, but will the man on the Possil omnibus see the poster? He'd need bloody good eyesight!
The electronic media revolution has even reached Possil, though smartphones tend more towards the pizza and blow home-delivery end of the market.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
Quite. Not sure if it will fill any authentic Unionists with joy though.
Why not. I don't think many unionists support the SNP?
Er, d'ye think that poster will discourage Scots from voting SNP, or the reverse?
Authentic Unionists speak.
alexmassie @alexmassie 1 hr1 hour ago An immensely stupid Tory poster. Encouraging SNP votes is a short-term - but hugely expensive - political plan.
Chris Deerin @chrisdeerin 37m37 minutes ago @montie@NickCohen4@alexmassie yep, and it all pushes us further apart. This is not a unionist strategy, it is an independence strategy
I'm clearly a moron because I can't see how that is encouraging SNP votes, or are you saying that SLab voters may be swayed by the description of Ed as 'your worst nightmare'. And anyway, is it even being shown in Scotland?
'This poster reminds us of this. Sure, it’s aimed at English voters but it will leach into Scotland too. And here it tells Scots to vote for the Nationalists. Let us count some of the ways in which it does so: 1. Vote SNP and they’ll be in government! 2. We, the Conservatives, are afraid of the SNP. (Subliminal message to Scots: so you know what to do, don’t you?) 3. And most importantly, it frames the election as a battle between Scotland and England in which the latter is menaced by the former. It pits the two largest parts of the Union against one another. Which, of course, is exactly how the SNP likes it; precisely how the SNP sees the election – and the future of Britain – too.'
Apart from anything else, polling in Scotland shows a governing arrangement between Labour & the SNP is the preferred GE outcome. Man (or woman) on Possil omnibus sees poster, scratches head and wonders what's the best way to get that to happen.
Very interesting piece. Massie is by far the most interesting rightwinger commenting [edit] in Scottish matters and if he is talking that way ...
Good. Cameron needs to stop playing games and get on with it.
Has ed said he will turn up? I'm not sure he's agreed to the new format.
Yes, he's said he will debate with whoever the TV companies decide to invite.
Last I heard labour where preparing a response so you have a link to any official acceptance?
Per Guido:
Tory statement:
“These new proposals are being considered as part of the ongoing discussions about the debates.”
And Labour:
“We will debate anyone the broadcasters choose to invite and we are pleased to see the clear proposal to have three debates all in the general election campaign. The broadcasters have obviously made a very significant move to adopt wholesale the Prime Minister’s proposals and it surely now not possible for him to maintain his opposition to participating in these debates. We relish the opportunity for Ed Miliband to take on David Cameron directly in a head to head debate.”
"We will debate WITH anyone the broadcasters choose to invite"
Hmm. I still dislike the broadcasters trying to be the tail that wags the dog. There are questions over Northern Irish parties as well, and Clegg must be livid with the situation.
Cameron isn't the only leader with a decision to make.
Agree. re the broadcasters.
That said, I genuinely can't think what the best situation would be. Cam, EdM, Nick, Farage is probably it, which the broadcasters came up with.
Although it benefits him and the Cons, in the light of the farce that "the debates" is becoming, I believe Cam/Lynton misplayed this.
Cameron's team are doing fine. They've got the debates including three Labour competitors, and the only downside is incredibly minor damage for looking like they want to duck them, which everyone will have forgotten about in a week.
As mentioned to @Morris_Dancer I believe he has tactically played a blinder. For himself. And I suppose that was the aim.
But I think that he has caused mayhem and diminished the democratic process by politicking.
I would be interested to know the ideal line-up as determined by PB consensus, should such a think exist.
I think: Cam, EdM, Nige, Nick.
I don't see any ideal line-up. The current proposal is as good a practical suggestion as we're likely to get. But it is very generous to the Greens in particular, and to a lesser extent Plaid Cymru.
Ynys Mons is my tip for Plaid - 2/1 at Ladbrokes and it was 12/5 yesterday with Hills.
They have a very good chance of taking the seat from Labour IMHO.
Plaid are worth a look in ceredigion, also.
A chunk of the cleggtastic 2010 lib dem voters have now graduated from the university and been replaced by tuition-fee-paying undergrads.
It's a LD/Plaid seat with the others nowhere.
Worth a look, but given the solid Lib Dem majority to overhaul there I'm not tempted at 5/4.
Mike you've made a massive biased assumption here. Word on the vine is that Labour are not certain to agree to these terms.
I don't think he's making bias assumptions. It's exactly how I would have worded the thread.
Of course you would but on this occasion Smithson has lied and should alter it.
They have not threatened to empty chair Cameron , they have threatened to empty chair any leader who declines to participate. Look again at the wording.
The reason this is important is that there are some inside rumours that EdM may decline.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
How unpopular is Salmond in England? I would have thought he could be seen as a shrewd operator who might rein in some of Labour's wilder ideas. And he has experience of being a very significant part of an effective government!
What we're not seeing here is balanced discussion of whether the SNP policies might actually appeal to the English as useful models for their own polity. Not that it is much use to the SNP, admittedly.
LOL
the english could allow themselves to be annexed by Scotland, have their wealth confiscated by Edinburgh and their children made slaves on Burns Night and still wee wifey would come back and say it was a poor deal, she demands more and english craveness disrespects the people of Scotland.
See my reply to RobD.
That's what made me laugh.
Why am I not surprised? But it's strange, for instance, that stamp duty is reformed by London just two months after the SNP get the right to deal with it and sort it out at last.
Hmm. I still dislike the broadcasters trying to be the tail that wags the dog. There are questions over Northern Irish parties as well, and Clegg must be livid with the situation.
Cameron isn't the only leader with a decision to make.
Agree. re the broadcasters.
That said, I genuinely can't think what the best situation would be. Cam, EdM, Nick, Farage is probably it, which the broadcasters came up with.
Although it benefits him and the Cons, in the light of the farce that "the debates" is becoming, I believe Cam/Lynton misplayed this.
Cameron's team are doing fine. They've got the debates including three Labour competitors, and the only downside is incredibly minor damage for looking like they want to duck them, which everyone will have forgotten about in a week.
As mentioned to @Morris_Dancer I believe he has tactically played a blinder. For himself. And I suppose that was the aim.
But I think that he has caused mayhem and diminished the democratic process by politicking.
I would be interested to know the ideal line-up as determined by PB consensus, should such a think exist.
I think: Cam, EdM, Nige, Nick.
I don't see any ideal line-up. The current proposal is as good a practical suggestion as we're likely to get. But it is very generous to the Greens in particular, and to a lesser extent Plaid Cymru.
Ynys Mons is my tip for Plaid - 2/1 at Ladbrokes and it was 12/5 yesterday with Hills.
They have a very good chance of taking the seat from Labour IMHO.
Plaid are worth a look in ceredigion, also.
A chunk of the cleggtastic 2010 lib dem voters have now graduated from the university and been replaced by tuition-fee-paying undergrads.
It's a LD/Plaid seat with the others nowhere.
Worth a look, but given the solid Lib Dem majority to overhaul there I'm not tempted at 5/4.
13-8 at Hills, but that majority is enourmous indeed. I'll stick with the Yns Mons bet.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
Quite. Not sure if it will fill any authentic Unionists with joy though.
Why not. I don't think many unionists support the SNP?
Er, d'ye think that poster will discourage Scots from voting SNP, or the reverse?
Authentic Unionists speak.
alexmassie @alexmassie 1 hr1 hour ago An immensely stupid Tory poster. Encouraging SNP votes is a short-term - but hugely expensive - political plan.
Chris Deerin @chrisdeerin 37m37 minutes ago @montie@NickCohen4@alexmassie yep, and it all pushes us further apart. This is not a unionist strategy, it is an independence strategy
I'm clearly a moron because I can't see how that is encouraging SNP votes, or are you saying that SLab voters may be swayed by the description of Ed as 'your worst nightmare'. And anyway, is it even being shown in Scotland?
'This poster reminds us of this. Sure, it’s aimed at English voters but it will leach into Scotland too. And here it tells Scots to vote for the Nationalists. Let us count some of the ways in which it does so: 1. Vote SNP and they’ll be in government! 2. We, the Conservatives, are afraid of the SNP. (Subliminal message to Scots: so you know what to do, don’t you?) 3. And most importantly, it frames the election as a battle between Scotland and England in which the latter is menaced by the former. It pits the two largest parts of the Union against one another. Which, of course, is exactly how the SNP likes it; precisely how the SNP sees the election – and the future of Britain – too.'
Apart from anything else, polling in Scotland shows a governing arrangement between Labour & the SNP is the preferred GE outcome. Man on Possil omnibus sees poster, scratches head and wonders what's the best way to get that to happen.
Fair points, but will the man on the Possil omnibus see the poster? He'd need bloody good eyesight!
The electronic media revolution has even reached Possil, though smartphones tend more towards the pizza and blow home-delivery end of the market.
"the english could allow themselves to be annexed by Scotland, have their wealth confiscated by Edinburgh and their children made slaves on Burns Night and still wee wifey would come back and say it was a poor deal, she demands more and english craveness disrespects the people of Scotland."
In a word she's crap. What the rest of the UK have started to pick up on already will take the Scots a little longer. The rather twee tartan jacket should have given them a clue.
Hmm. I still dislike the broadcasters trying to be the tail that wags the dog. There are questions over Northern Irish parties as well, and Clegg must be livid with the situation.
Cameron isn't the only leader with a decision to make.
Agree. re the broadcasters.
That said, I genuinely can't think what the best situation would be. Cam, EdM, Nick, Farage is probably it, which the broadcasters came up with.
Although it benefits him and the Cons, in the light of the farce that "the debates" is becoming, I believe Cam/Lynton misplayed this.
Cameron's team are doing fine. They've got the debates including three Labour competitors, and the only downside is incredibly minor damage for looking like they want to duck them, which everyone will have forgotten about in a week.
As mentioned to @Morris_Dancer I believe he has tactically played a blinder. For himself. And I suppose that was the aim.
But I think that he has caused mayhem and diminished the democratic process by politicking.
I would be interested to know the ideal line-up as determined by PB consensus, should such a think exist.
I think: Cam, EdM, Nige, Nick.
I don't see any ideal line-up. The current proposal is as good a practical suggestion as we're likely to get. But it is very generous to the Greens in particular, and to a lesser extent Plaid Cymru.
Ynys Mons is my tip for Plaid - 2/1 at Ladbrokes and it was 12/5 yesterday with Hills.
They have a very good chance of taking the seat from Labour IMHO.
Plaid are worth a look in ceredigion, also.
A chunk of the cleggtastic 2010 lib dem voters have now graduated from the university and been replaced by tuition-fee-paying undergrads.
It's a LD/Plaid seat with the others nowhere.
Suggested those two yesterday. Very easy PC win in the Yns Mon Assembly by-election in 2013.
That is brutally effective from the Conservative viewpoint. I very much doubt that the SNP will be too upset by it either.
How unpopular is Salmond in England? I would have thought he could be seen as a shrewd operator who might rein in some of Labour's wilder ideas. And he has experience of being a very significant part of an effective government!
What we're not seeing here is balanced discussion of whether the SNP policies might actually appeal to the English as useful models for their own polity. Not that it is much use to the SNP, admittedly.
LOL
the english could allow themselves to be annexed by Scotland, have their wealth confiscated by Edinburgh and their children made slaves on Burns Night and still wee wifey would come back and say it was a poor deal, she demands more and english craveness disrespects the people of Scotland.
See my reply to RobD.
That's what made me laugh.
Why am I not surprised? But it's strange, for instance, that stamp duty is reformed by London just two months after the SNP get the right to deal with it and sort it out at last.
Oh I have no problem with regional experimentation, It's one of the big benefits of federalism things get tried out, crap ones dropped and good one taken on. It's the idea of a benevolent SNP helping their neighbours which stretches credulity.
"Coalition Specials - When Will David Cameron Leave The Post Of Prime Minister?"
2016 or later @ 13/8
If you combine that with the 11/10 on Ed Miliband being next Prime Minister, that's a near arb for a 16% rate of return in a year. Of course, you get skewered if there's a very messy hung Parliament and David Cameron gets replaced with an internal Conservative rival or there is an internal coup within the Labour party.
Not something I say often, but well done Ruth Davidson.
Ruth Davidson MSP @RuthDavidsonMSP 53m53 minutes ago Flying flags at half mast on gov buildings for the death of Saudi king is a steaming pile of nonsense. That is all.
This the same person who has been so gleeful about the oil price cut?
So are you saying the oil price cut is bad for the UK? Or Europe? Or hard-working ordinary Scots? Or just the SNP?
Mike you've made a massive biased assumption here. Word on the vine is that Labour are not certain to agree to these terms.
I don't think he's making bias assumptions. It's exactly how I would have worded the thread.
Of course you would but on this occasion Smithson has lied and should alter it.
They have not threatened to empty chair Cameron , they have threatened to empty chair any leader who declines to participate. Look again at the wording.
The reason this is important is that there are some inside rumours that EdM may decline.
It's not a lie - they have threatened to empty chair Cameron (alongside threatening others as well).
However it is very selective and misleading reporting.
But OGH has been entirely wrong about the debates all the way through.
"Coalition Specials - When Will David Cameron Leave The Post Of Prime Minister?"
2016 or later @ 13/8
If you combine that with the 11/10 on Ed Miliband being next Prime Minister, that's a near arb for a 16% rate of return in a year. Of course, you get skewered if there's a very messy hung Parliament and David Cameron gets replaced with an internal Conservative rival or there is an internal coup within the Labour party.
I made a special lunchtime trip to William Hills when they had this at 7-2, should have put more than £35 on mind ^_~
Good. Cameron needs to stop playing games and get on with it.
Has ed said he will turn up? I'm not sure he's agreed to the new format.
Yes, he's said he will debate with whoever the TV companies decide to invite.
Last I heard labour where preparing a response so you have a link to any official acceptance?
Per Guido:
Tory statement:
“These new proposals are being considered as part of the ongoing discussions about the debates.”
And Labour:
“We will debate anyone the broadcasters choose to invite and we are pleased to see the clear proposal to have three debates all in the general election campaign. The broadcasters have obviously made a very significant move to adopt wholesale the Prime Minister’s proposals and it surely now not possible for him to maintain his opposition to participating in these debates. We relish the opportunity for Ed Miliband to take on David Cameron directly in a head to head debate.”
"We will debate WITH anyone the broadcasters choose to invite"
Global standard English doesn't use the with.
That's debate-able
Dave: "I'll debate Ed Miliband!" Moderator: "With whom, Prime Minister?"
"the english could allow themselves to be annexed by Scotland, have their wealth confiscated by Edinburgh and their children made slaves on Burns Night and still wee wifey would come back and say it was a poor deal, she demands more and english craveness disrespects the people of Scotland."
In a word she's crap. What the rest of the UK have started to pick up on already will take the Scots a little longer. The rather twee tartan jacket should have given them a clue.
I still reckon she's the long lost daughter of Janette Krankie.
"Coalition Specials - When Will David Cameron Leave The Post Of Prime Minister?"
2016 or later @ 13/8
If you combine that with the 11/10 on Ed Miliband being next Prime Minister, that's a near arb for a 16% rate of return in a year. Of course, you get skewered if there's a very messy hung Parliament and David Cameron gets replaced with an internal Conservative rival or there is an internal coup within the Labour party.
What price anyone other than DC/EM leading the government formed after the G.E.? [I appreciate this is a slightly different q.]
Mike you've made a massive biased assumption here. Word on the vine is that Labour are not certain to agree to these terms.
I don't think he's making bias assumptions. It's exactly how I would have worded the thread.
Of course you would but on this occasion Smithson has lied and should alter it.
They have not threatened to empty chair Cameron , they have threatened to empty chair any leader who declines to participate. Look again at the wording.
The reason this is important is that there are some inside rumours that EdM may decline.
However it is very selective and misleading reporting.
But OGH has been entirely wrong about the debates all the way through.
Yep, and like the good Liberal Democrat that he is he won't ever admit to being wrong about it
The reason it reads like a lie is that it isn't the wording of the statement: Cameron isn't mentioned. The fact that 'I understand' Labour are far from certain to agree to these terms makes this important. Well, if you think pb.com is important, that is.
Mr. Jonathan, tactics win battles. Being good at tactics isn't a bad thing. Strategy, logistics and diplomacy also matter, of course, but it's no bad thing being skilled (or seeking to be skilled) at tactics.
Strategy = long-term plans.
Tactics = short-term goals.
You need both; neither one nor the other is "bad".
Sun Zi in the Art of War: 'Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory, tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.'
This is certainly right. The Wehrmacht / Waffen SS were brilliant at tactics - their units regularly outfought the allies. But their strategy regularly sucked (expend all your energy taking a militarily useless Stalingrad, the Mortain counter-attack, etc).
"Coalition Specials - When Will David Cameron Leave The Post Of Prime Minister?"
2016 or later @ 13/8
If you combine that with the 11/10 on Ed Miliband being next Prime Minister, that's a near arb for a 16% rate of return in a year. Of course, you get skewered if there's a very messy hung Parliament and David Cameron gets replaced with an internal Conservative rival or there is an internal coup within the Labour party.
What price anyone other than DC/EM leading the government formed after the G.E.? [I appreciate this is a slightly different q.]
Seeing as the only party that is actually winning at the moment is restricted to 61 seats, more or less zero.
If the SNP had "ENP" branches (Or some such) and Plaid were surging like they are or w/e, it'd be a live possibility.
Actually, the broadcasters have not threatened to empty-chair anyone. They have said that the debates will take place with those leaders who do accept the invitation, which is a very different thing. Admittedly this is probably academic, since I'm sure they will all accept.
Mike you've made a massive biased assumption here. Word on the vine is that Labour are not certain to agree to these terms.
I don't think he's making bias assumptions. It's exactly how I would have worded the thread.
Of course you would but on this occasion Smithson has lied and should alter it.
They have not threatened to empty chair Cameron , they have threatened to empty chair any leader who declines to participate. Look again at the wording.
The reason this is important is that there are some inside rumours that EdM may decline.
Cameron declined the last broadcaster debate proposal. The broadcasters are now making it clear here what will happen if he does so again on their revised proposal.
"Coalition Specials - When Will David Cameron Leave The Post Of Prime Minister?"
2016 or later @ 13/8
If you combine that with the 11/10 on Ed Miliband being next Prime Minister, that's a near arb for a 16% rate of return in a year. Of course, you get skewered if there's a very messy hung Parliament and David Cameron gets replaced with an internal Conservative rival or there is an internal coup within the Labour party.
What price anyone other than DC/EM leading the government formed after the G.E.? [I appreciate this is a slightly different q.]
Seeing as the only party that is actually winning at the moment is restricted to 61 seats, more or less zero.
If the SNP had "ENP" branches (Or some such) and Plaid were surging like they are or w/e, it'd be a live possibility.
Nothing stopping the SNP standing in the rest of the UK, it could make it a more interesting election if they did, then they'd be guaranteed a place in the TV debates.
Comments
If your message isn't clear .......
Best maybe to keep hos head down and the LDs keep him off their leaflets.
A ) Minimise UKIP's exposure
B ) Boost the SNP/Greens/Plaid
He's played his hand well so far.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am definitely not a tory. I've only voted tory once, when they had the least worst candidate in the ridiculous PCC election.
Authentic Unionists speak.
alexmassie @alexmassie 1 hr1 hour ago
An immensely stupid Tory poster. Encouraging SNP votes is a short-term - but hugely expensive - political plan.
Chris Deerin @chrisdeerin 37m37 minutes ago
@montie @NickCohen4 @alexmassie yep, and it all pushes us further apart. This is not a unionist strategy, it is an independence strategy
Chris Deerin @chrisdeerin · 51 mins 51 minutes ago
@alexmassie @montie everything's completely f*cked
That's why.
http://metro.co.uk/2015/01/08/charlie-hebdo-nick-cleggs-incredible-take-down-of-lbc-caller-who-blamed-west-for-attack-5013934/
Sleek-headed men and such as sleep a-nights.
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look.
He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous.
Perhaps The Tories will re-use David Low - 'Someone is taking someone for a walk'.
Ruth Davidson MSP @RuthDavidsonMSP 53m53 minutes ago
Flying flags at half mast on gov buildings for the death of Saudi king is a steaming pile of nonsense. That is all.
And this is somehow bad news for Cameron, and evidence that he screwed up?
What planet are people living on?
Yes but Ed Miliband would, that's the point of the poster, isn't it??
Conservatives, the party that isnt going to get intimidated by a bunch of braying nats
David Cameron remains the person with most to lose from the debates, but he should accept these now. The dangers of the final head-to-head with Ed Miliband are compensated for by the very decent chance that Ed Miliband may find himself pulled in four different progressive directions in the first two debates.
"It's a brutal personal attack on someone who is widely thought to be not up to the job. The Conservatives are going to make Ed Miliband's abysmal public image a centrepiece of their campaign. I expect this is just a warm-up."
I happen to think the Tories are going to get a majority. Everything in the world that could be going well for them at the moment is going well.
The only chink of light for Labour that I can see is Cameron's arrogance and poor judgement. Showing a picture of his opponent in an attempt to ridicule him feeds the idea of a Bullingdon Boy doing what Bullingdon Boys do.
If he had no positive message then scrape the barrel. Any distraction would do . But as he has it's folly and what's more if this election comes down to who can most effectively ridicule their opponent and I was Cameron I wouldn't be feeling confident.
Dave is deciding if he can find another excuse or prevaricating isn't he?
A tweeter has also inquired why Mr M seems to have put on weight on the right of the picture (the one that actually doesn't look like Kenny Dodd).
Posters are basically viral now. I assume it's not much more sophisticated than someone in head office loading up photoshop, pressing ctrl+P then renting a roving billboard for a couple of hours to find the nearest TV news crew.
Probably costs about £100 all in. The internet does the rest.
Sorry if I'm wrong but if she isn't running to be an mp then prob Salmond should be in debates not her
1. Vote SNP and they’ll be in government!
2. We, the Conservatives, are afraid of the SNP. (Subliminal message to Scots: so you know what to do, don’t you?)
3. And most importantly, it frames the election as a battle between Scotland and England in which the latter is menaced by the former. It pits the two largest parts of the Union against one another. Which, of course, is exactly how the SNP likes it; precisely how the SNP sees the election – and the future of Britain – too.'
http://tinyurl.com/nvtaftt
Apart from anything else, polling in Scotland shows a governing arrangement between Labour & the SNP is the preferred GE outcome. Man (or woman) on Possil omnibus sees poster, scratches head and wonders what's the best way to get that to happen.
Mr. Jonathan, tactics win battles. Being good at tactics isn't a bad thing. Strategy, logistics and diplomacy also matter, of course, but it's no bad thing being skilled (or seeking to be skilled) at tactics.
They have a very good chance of taking the seat from Labour IMHO.
It's a leader's debate. If the SNP are represented, then it has to be her.
the english could allow themselves to be annexed by Scotland, have their wealth confiscated by Edinburgh and their children made slaves on Burns Night and still wee wifey would come back and say it was a poor deal, she demands more and english craveness disrespects the people of Scotland.
Strategy = long-term plans.
Tactics = short-term goals.
You need both; neither one nor the other is "bad".
Daniel Hannan @DanHannanMEP
@stephenkb I win if six seats or more, you if five or fewer.
On Tory seats in Scotland!
A chunk of the cleggtastic 2010 lib dem voters have now graduated from the university and been replaced by tuition-fee-paying undergrads.
It's a LD/Plaid seat with the others nowhere.
Mr. Hopkins, indeed.
They have not threatened to empty chair Cameron , they have threatened to empty chair any leader who declines to participate. Look again at the wording.
The reason this is important is that there are some inside rumours that EdM may decline.
"Coalition Specials - When Will David Cameron Leave The Post Of Prime Minister?"
2016 or later @ 13/8
In a word she's crap. What the rest of the UK have started to pick up on already will take the Scots a little longer. The rather twee tartan jacket should have given them a clue.
If she isn't standing to be an MP she should not be in the debates
However it is very selective and misleading reporting.
But OGH has been entirely wrong about the debates all the way through.
Edit. Sorry; just checked, and she is standing.
Dave: "I'll debate Ed Miliband!"
Moderator: "With whom, Prime Minister?"
EDIT: Just seen AntiFrank's post, she is... so pas de probleme
The reason it reads like a lie is that it isn't the wording of the statement: Cameron isn't mentioned. The fact that 'I understand' Labour are far from certain to agree to these terms makes this important. Well, if you think pb.com is important, that is.
This is certainly right. The Wehrmacht / Waffen SS were brilliant at tactics - their units regularly outfought the allies. But their strategy regularly sucked (expend all your energy taking a militarily useless Stalingrad, the Mortain counter-attack, etc).
If the SNP had "ENP" branches (Or some such) and Plaid were surging like they are or w/e, it'd be a live possibility.
This current Green party surge seems a bit like David Icke - sounds good until they have to say what they're really thinking.
The debates may not be universally good for the "secondary" leaders.
Surprising....
It's a pretty clear to me.