Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On a day when a poll had the CON+LAB aggregate at its lowes

2

Comments

  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    DavidL said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Tories and Labour tied - CON 32%, LAB 32%, LD 8%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    Does anyone believe that so many random samples can really produce as many ties as we have had recently? Even if the parties are really tied there just should be more random variation.

    The adjustments made by the pollsters have taken all the fun out of this (Lord A excepted of course).
    I've suggested to a few pollsters they start publishing their headline figures to one decimal place.

    They've said that would imply a level of precision that doesn't exist.

    In that case, perhaps they should round them to the nearest 10% :wink:
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    DavidL said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Tories and Labour tied - CON 32%, LAB 32%, LD 8%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    Does anyone believe that so many random samples can really produce as many ties as we have had recently? Even if the parties are really tied there just should be more random variation.

    The adjustments made by the pollsters have taken all the fun out of this (Lord A excepted of course).
    Lab led in 5 of the last 6 YouGov polls before tonight.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Love it.

    A *grisly embrace* - marvellous, just marvellous.
    AndyJS said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Tories and Labour tied - CON 32%, LAB 32%, LD 8%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    The grisly embrace continues.
  • DavidL said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Tories and Labour tied - CON 32%, LAB 32%, LD 8%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    Does anyone believe that so many random samples can really produce as many ties as we have had recently? Even if the parties are really tied there just should be more random variation.

    The adjustments made by the pollsters have taken all the fun out of this (Lord A excepted of course).
    I've suggested to a few pollsters they start publishing their headline figures to one decimal place.

    They've said that would imply a level of precision that doesn't exist.

    In that case, perhaps they should round them to the nearest 10% :wink:
    I calculate ELBOW in my Excel to 2 d.p., but always Tweet the figures to 1 d.p.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    edited January 2015
    AndyJS said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Tories and Labour tied - CON 32%, LAB 32%, LD 8%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    The grisly embrace continues.
    ''to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee.''
    (and thats just what Dimbleby thinks of Brillo - so roll on the election!)
  • Danny565 said:

    Rather odd Newsnight piece at the moment...

    Looks like they're going forwards in time to Election Night.
  • DavidL said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Tories and Labour tied - CON 32%, LAB 32%, LD 8%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    Does anyone believe that so many random samples can really produce as many ties as we have had recently? Even if the parties are really tied there just should be more random variation.

    The adjustments made by the pollsters have taken all the fun out of this (Lord A excepted of course).
    I've suggested to a few pollsters they start publishing their headline figures to one decimal place.

    They've said that would imply a level of precision that doesn't exist.

    In that case, perhaps they should round them to the nearest 10% :wink:
    They don't listen to me.

    They refused to start polling with this preamble

    "Who will you vote for, the brilliant Tory party led by the wonderful David Cameron, Labour led by Ed Miliband who stabs his own brother in the back, the Nick Clegg led Lib Dems, The Fruitcakes, racists and loonies led by Farage, the Green Fascists, or someone else"
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    Rod, you've been told by Mike Smithson not to discuss the holocaust.

    Be precise. No-one was singled out. The ban applied universally.

    It's an odd prohibition (imho), but if you're going to apply it, do so consistently.
  • A good day for the Tories in today's polls - perhaps they are set to edge ahead at last, or are they once again flattering to deceive?

    How so a good day? Dead heat with Labour.
  • AndyJS said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Tories and Labour tied - CON 32%, LAB 32%, LD 8%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    The grisly embrace continues.
    ''to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee.''
    (and thats just what Dimbleby thinks of Brillo - so roll on the election!)
    Melville was paraphrasing Khan Noonien Singh in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan :)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Is anyone else sad enough to have a Wiki Random Article bookmark?

    The Guinness Book Of Records was my favourite book as a kid - I knew it back to front bar the Games & Pastimes section. And read it every night in bed. Horizon was my favourite TV prog too. Along with The World About Us and Survival. I also watched BBC2 Open University progs too at 6am on a Sunday.

    Do you have a nerdier primary school anecdote?!

    SeanT said:

    Mr. T, would he? I could be wrong, but I thought Hitler decided against using chemical weapons, even though they were stockpiled and could have been deployed.

    I'd welcome a link. The idea that Hitler exercised moral restraint is quite delicious. He was happy to kill anyone, anywhere, anyhow, if it furthered his cause, and - therefore - the cause of the German people.

    He may have preferred to slaughter subhumans (Jews, Slavs, Gypsies) over decadent Judaised Aryan cousins (English, French, most Americans) but he was still quite eager to slaughter all of them, if necessary. As far as I know.

    There is some evidence that the Nazis used poison gas against the Soviets in the Crimea in 1942 at Sevastapol and Kherson.

    I suspect that Hitler (and other psychos) avoided gas is that gas does not work well in war of movement, as the equipment for protection and decontamination prevents mobility. The main reason Gas has not been used much is that it is a pretty poor weapon.
    I think you hit the nail on the head. Even in WW1 it had its limitations. We found it useful to suppress artillery batteries once we could hit them by map reference. But once movement returned in the last 100 days then it was less useful.
    German (Waffen SS) restraint did not stop them murdering British prisoners even in May 1940.
    Hitlers only restraint was in not putting his signature to any of it all.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_John_Harvey
  • Plato said:

    Is anyone else sad enough to have a Wiki Random Article bookmark?

    The Guinness Book Of Records was my favourite book as a kid - I knew it back to front bar the Games & Pastimes section. And read it every night in bed. Horizon was my favourite TV prog too. Along with The World About Us and Survival. I also watched BBC2 Open University progs too at 6am on a Sunday.

    Do you have a nerdier primary school anecdote?!

    SeanT said:

    Mr. T, would he? I could be wrong, but I thought Hitler decided against using chemical weapons, even though they were stockpiled and could have been deployed.

    I'd welcome a link. The idea that Hitler exercised moral restraint is quite delicious. He was happy to kill anyone, anywhere, anyhow, if it furthered his cause, and - therefore - the cause of the German people.

    He may have preferred to slaughter subhumans (Jews, Slavs, Gypsies) over decadent Judaised Aryan cousins (English, French, most Americans) but he was still quite eager to slaughter all of them, if necessary. As far as I know.

    There is some evidence that the Nazis used poison gas against the Soviets in the Crimea in 1942 at Sevastapol and Kherson.

    I suspect that Hitler (and other psychos) avoided gas is that gas does not work well in war of movement, as the equipment for protection and decontamination prevents mobility. The main reason Gas has not been used much is that it is a pretty poor weapon.
    I think you hit the nail on the head. Even in WW1 it had its limitations. We found it useful to suppress artillery batteries once we could hit them by map reference. But once movement returned in the last 100 days then it was less useful.
    German (Waffen SS) restraint did not stop them murdering British prisoners even in May 1940.
    Hitlers only restraint was in not putting his signature to any of it all.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_John_Harvey
    Random? I quoted that article because it was the Allies' only use of gas during WW2 (albeit unintentional!).

    I'm sad enough to check and update the list of Opinion Polling for the 2015 United Kingdom General Election :)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    MikeL said:

    DavidL said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Tories and Labour tied - CON 32%, LAB 32%, LD 8%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    Does anyone believe that so many random samples can really produce as many ties as we have had recently? Even if the parties are really tied there just should be more random variation.

    The adjustments made by the pollsters have taken all the fun out of this (Lord A excepted of course).
    Lab led in 5 of the last 6 YouGov polls before tonight.
    Sorry if I expressed myself badly. It is not so much the ties as the lack of movement. Lord A's polls may be "bouncy" but Yougovs have the elasticity of the proverbial dead cat. I just cannot believe that random samples of 1000 or so could produce such similar results.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723

    A good day for the Tories in today's polls - perhaps they are set to edge ahead at last, or are they once again flattering to deceive?

    How so a good day? Dead heat with Labour.
    Prior to today, the average Lab lead has been in the region of 1.5%.

    Three polls today - average dead heat as you say - so that's an improvement.

    Only three polls of course - could easily just be random variation. But three polls average dead heat is a lot better than three polls with an average Lab lead of 3% - which would be the opposite compared to the recent average of 1.5% Lab lead.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I can go for months without in a Puritanical phase - and frankly it's boring and long. I'd rather die sooner and plonked, than virtuous and sober.

    Virtuous is someone elses opinion than my own life. Why play to their audience? Most peculiar.
    DavidL said:

    Plato said:

    I apparently exceed the national average of Belarus - most amusing. Find out yours.

    I'm not embarrassed by it - be it, own it, love it is my motto.

    bbc.co.uk/news/health-30500372

    SeanT said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Fenster said:

    @SeanT & Sean F

    Beevor makes the point (I think in the notes) that the Russians were a bit pissed off at such attention being brought to their raping and torturing, but that the book should almost be seen as a to Stalingrad, in which Beevor is equally as unforgiving in his account of Nazi atrocities.

    Regarding the jockeying for power, yep, quite bizarre. The chancellery is literally being bombed to smithereens and Bormann, Himmler and Goring are more interested in petty jealousies than they are the death of their country. Sean must be right about the drugs. They must've been on some good shit.

    Himmler comes out as a peculiarly alien entity. Driving past emaciated, injured soldiers in his open backed Mercedes without even acknowledging them. Having just organised a meeting with a Jew (a Jew! The irony) to broker a peace deal with the Americans which would put him in power. Bananas.

    I want whatever he was jacking.

    Is it Beevor who has the mind-boggling story that the Germans decided to leave stocks of drink intact as they retreated before the Russians because it would make them more mellow and peaceable?

    In my quite extensive experience, a Russian with access to vodka is a happier person than a Russian without.

    My GF is the same with cannabis. It medicates.

    And I confess I am probably the same with red wine.

    *pops cork*
    I can claim to be a Kuwaiti at the moment (without the money of course) having been dry since 1st January.

    I am sorry to report absolutely no benefits from my abstinence whatsoever. It has certainly made eating duller and quite possibly me as well.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    DavidL said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Tories and Labour tied - CON 32%, LAB 32%, LD 8%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    Does anyone believe that so many random samples can really produce as many ties as we have had recently? Even if the parties are really tied there just should be more random variation.

    The adjustments made by the pollsters have taken all the fun out of this (Lord A excepted of course).
    I've suggested to a few pollsters they start publishing their headline figures to one decimal place.

    They've said that would imply a level of precision that doesn't exist.
    It would make poll of polls more accurate though.
  • If UKIP had followed my advice and gone anti-fracking, anti-GMOs, anti-glyphosate
    and pro- healthy environment, they'd be heading for parity with the majors, but as pro-
    fracking, pro-GMO and pro-glyphosate, they're over before they've started.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,123
    edited January 2015
    DavidL said:

    MikeL said:

    DavidL said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Tories and Labour tied - CON 32%, LAB 32%, LD 8%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    Does anyone believe that so many random samples can really produce as many ties as we have had recently? Even if the parties are really tied there just should be more random variation.

    The adjustments made by the pollsters have taken all the fun out of this (Lord A excepted of course).
    Lab led in 5 of the last 6 YouGov polls before tonight.
    Sorry if I expressed myself badly. It is not so much the ties as the lack of movement. Lord A's polls may be "bouncy" but Yougovs have the elasticity of the proverbial dead cat. I just cannot believe that random samples of 1000 or so could produce such similar results.
    Super-ELBOWs for each calendar month since September:
    	          Lab	Con	UKIP	LD	Green
    September 35.67 31.71 15.18 7.58 4.73
    October 33.80 31.99 16.10 7.68 4.91
    November 33.23 31.47 16.58 7.41 5.49
    December 33.68 31.95 15.54 7.38 6.02
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    On a cheerful note, its only 30,000,000 seconds give or take a few seconds till I draw my Co pension....
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Bah! I love Random Wiki. I've learned so many useless facts of interest to no one.

    Plato said:

    Is anyone else sad enough to have a Wiki Random Article bookmark?

    The Guinness Book Of Records was my favourite book as a kid - I knew it back to front bar the Games & Pastimes section. And read it every night in bed. Horizon was my favourite TV prog too. Along with The World About Us and Survival. I also watched BBC2 Open University progs too at 6am on a Sunday.

    Do you have a nerdier primary school anecdote?!

    SeanT said:

    Mr. T, would he? I could be wrong, but I thought Hitler decided against using chemical weapons, even though they were stockpiled and could have been deployed.

    I'd welcome a link. The idea that Hitler exercised moral restraint is quite delicious. He was happy to kill anyone, anywhere, anyhow, if it furthered his cause, and - therefore - the cause of the German people.

    He may have preferred to slaughter subhumans (Jews, Slavs, Gypsies) over decadent Judaised Aryan cousins (English, French, most Americans) but he was still quite eager to slaughter all of them, if necessary. As far as I know.

    There is some evidence that the Nazis used poison gas against the Soviets in the Crimea in 1942 at Sevastapol and Kherson.

    I suspect that Hitler (and other psychos) avoided gas is that gas does not work well in war of movement, as the equipment for protection and decontamination prevents mobility. The main reason Gas has not been used much is that it is a pretty poor weapon.
    I think you hit the nail on the head. Even in WW1 it had its limitations. We found it useful to suppress artillery batteries once we could hit them by map reference. But once movement returned in the last 100 days then it was less useful.
    German (Waffen SS) restraint did not stop them murdering British prisoners even in May 1940.
    Hitlers only restraint was in not putting his signature to any of it all.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_John_Harvey
    Random? I quoted that article because it was the Allies' only use of gas during WW2 (albeit unintentional!).

    I'm sad enough to check and update the list of Opinion Polling for the 2015 United Kingdom General Election :)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    Plato said:

    I can go for months without in a Puritanical phase - and frankly it's boring and long. I'd rather die sooner and plonked, than virtuous and sober.

    Virtuous is someone elses opinion than my own life. Why play to their audience? Most peculiar.

    DavidL said:

    Plato said:

    I apparently exceed the national average of Belarus - most amusing. Find out yours.

    I'm not embarrassed by it - be it, own it, love it is my motto.

    bbc.co.uk/news/health-30500372

    SeanT said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Fenster said:

    @SeanT & Sean F

    Beevor makes the point (I think in the notes) that the Russians were a bit pissed off at such attention being brought to their raping and torturing, but that the book should almost be seen as a to Stalingrad, in which Beevor is equally as unforgiving in his account of Nazi atrocities.

    Regarding the jockeying for power, yep, quite bizarre. The chancellery is literally being bombed to smithereens and Bormann, Himmler and Goring are more interested in petty jealousies than they are the death of their country. Sean must be right about the drugs. They must've been on some good shit.

    Himmler comes out as a peculiarly alien entity. Driving past emaciated, injured soldiers in his open backed Mercedes without even acknowledging them. Having just organised a meeting with a Jew (a Jew! The irony) to broker a peace deal with the Americans which would put him in power. Bananas.

    I want whatever he was jacking.

    Is it Beevor who has the mind-boggling story that the Germans decided to leave stocks of drink intact as they retreated before the Russians because it would make them more mellow and peaceable?

    In my quite extensive experience, a Russian with access to vodka is a happier person than a Russian without.

    My GF is the same with cannabis. It medicates.

    And I confess I am probably the same with red wine.

    *pops cork*
    I can claim to be a Kuwaiti at the moment (without the money of course) having been dry since 1st January.

    I am sorry to report absolutely no benefits from my abstinence whatsoever. It has certainly made eating duller and quite possibly me as well.
    Boredom is by far the biggest problem but having committed myself to it at the start of the month I kinda feel the need to get to the end (with the exception of Burns Night of course) if only to prove to myself that I can. Won't be in a rush to repeat the experiment though.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Miss Plato, I'm just a poor boy... I need no sympathy.

    Mr. 565, what's going on?

    I haven't paid huge amounts of attention, but I'm surprised that the Epistle of Eric has provoked a so-called 'backlash'.
  • Rod, you've been told by Mike Smithson not to discuss the holocaust.

    Apologies. I think I unintentionally triggered that one.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I don't think "grisly embrace" referring to the two main parties was my original idea. It was probably in the papers in recent months.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    On a cheerful note, its only 30,000,000 seconds give or take a few seconds till I draw my Co pension....

    Oh go on --- defer it!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    DavidL said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Tories and Labour tied - CON 32%, LAB 32%, LD 8%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    Does anyone believe that so many random samples can really produce as many ties as we have had recently? Even if the parties are really tied there just should be more random variation.

    The adjustments made by the pollsters have taken all the fun out of this (Lord A excepted of course).
    I've suggested to a few pollsters they start publishing their headline figures to one decimal place.

    They've said that would imply a level of precision that doesn't exist.
    Reporting to 3SF would perhaps decrease accuracy, or at least exact agreement, but it should enhance the mathematical possibility of detecting change.

    I have a mathematical proof of this somewhere!

    @AndyJS

    Great candidate spreadsheet! The LDs have not yet selected a candidate for any of the three Leicester seats, or Leics NW or Loughborough.

    Those betting on LD% may well take note. Not putting up candidates will significantly pull down the national percentage.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. Gage, I'm not so sure. Fracking hasn't really been on the agenda, it's been the economy, the NHS and security/terrorism.
  • Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Tories and Labour tied - CON 32%, LAB 32%, LD 8%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    Does anyone believe that so many random samples can really produce as many ties as we have had recently? Even if the parties are really tied there just should be more random variation.

    The adjustments made by the pollsters have taken all the fun out of this (Lord A excepted of course).
    I've suggested to a few pollsters they start publishing their headline figures to one decimal place.

    They've said that would imply a level of precision that doesn't exist.
    It would make poll of polls more accurate though.
    I always look at the tables to calculate ELBOW, if only to check the figures in the tables match the published values (occasionally they do NOT!).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,514
    edited January 2015
    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    What an embarrassing attempt at journalism:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu

    Twice as many EU migrants claim benefits here as Brits in the EU, and this is reported as "Thousands of Britons claiming benefits in the EU". It was the same with the study that showed immigration cost the UK £117bn, and they reported a subset where the numbers were favourable.

    God, the pro-EU types are a joke. Completely devoid of facts.

    Reading that dreck was a revelation for me. It felt like the desperate, warped flailing of a dying newspaper hoping to titillate its remaining readers with some ludicrously perverted dribble, clearly bearing no relation to the facts. In other words, it felt like reading the Daily Express.

    It was the first time I've ever felt sorry for Guardian.

    I can see why editor Rusbridger is leaving next year, I can also see the stats:

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/oct/10/abc-figures-show-papers-efforts-to-stem-circulation-decline

    The Guardian isn't just in decline, it is dying. Its readership has halved in six years (and the decline has accelerated since Oct 2014), and the paper will essentially be gone by 2020, when it will become an online phenomenon, and just a more annoying version of Huffpo, about which no one cares.

    Oh, poor Polly.

    Even more annoyingly for the Groaniad, in the last few months the Times has added readers and seems to be making a success of its paywall. That's gotta hurt.

    Murdoch!

    Newsnight is going the same way, it is more Guardian than the Guardian. Today's edition has literally had every person doing reports current or former Guardian, even guests from the Guardian, and the most right wing person they have had on (for balance) Lord Mandelson.

    Echo chamber doesn't even come close to it...more like kinda of weak lefty whining. No sign of those classic interview ripping chunks of all and sundry.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited January 2015
    You are too graceful - take the credit for it! :smiley:

    EDIT Since your TOTP channel has been thwarted - do you have playlists instead? I've a few hundred tracks from TOTP era if you'd like them - and a couple of thousand others either side. I'm always collecting stuff so if you'd like them - I can post/share them with you.
    AndyJS said:

    I don't think "grisly embrace" referring to the two main parties was my original idea. It was probably in the papers in recent months.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020

    On a cheerful note, its only 30,000,000 seconds give or take a few seconds till I draw my Co pension....


    The now retired procurator fiscal in Perth used to have a calendar on his wall where every day he scored off another towards his retirement. He was quite proud of this and showed it to visitors like me.

    As a means of leading and inspiring his team it was almost unique in my experience but they may well have had a matching calendar themselves, just in case he missed a day.
  • Ah, pleased to see that Ratty is back. I hadn't dared ask what had happened to him..
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020

    Ah, pleased to see that Ratty is back. I hadn't dared ask what had happened to him..

    I think the consensus is that he isn't and that it is a bird.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    SeanT said:

    fpt for Charles

    I read Beevor's Berlin on my first ever visit to Berlin. An amazing literary/personal experience. Highly recommended,

    As for the "being descended from William the Conqueror" or whatever crapola, of course we are all descended from him, or we can trace a cousinage thereto.

    We are all part of the great chain of being. I was physically linked to my mother by my umbilical cord, as was my sister (and my two daughters to their mothers). Those mothers were in turn physically linked to their mothers (and, thereby, their brothers, fathers, nephews, at a remove).

    Unless you believe in the (discredited) theory of multiple origins of humanity, we can, therefore, ALL physically trace a flesh-and-blood link to Julius Caesar, the Krankies, Moses, the main members of the Leeds United squad in 1975, Buddha, King David, Father Gapon, Mike Smithson, Jesus Christ, the emperor Montezuma, Gary Lineker's uncle, Genghis Khan, Lord Byron, Adam and Eve, the Prophet Mohammad, the principal musicians in Led Zeppelin, my mad great uncle David "froggy" Skewes, and Napoleon.

    Aristocracy is merely a byproduct of literacy: being able to TRACE one's lineage on paper, thus proving descent. But we are all DESCENDANTS.

    For anyone who cares I am actually descended (and can prove this) from the Emperor Napoleon himself, through his only surviving son (illegitimate but recognised) and various other interesting people. A wonderful historical irony two centuries after Waterloo!

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    Ah, pleased to see that Ratty is back. I hadn't dared ask what had happened to him..

    He's headed off to Syria.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Like R5 and Richard Bacon as he *interviews* his friends from the Guardian, hosts his show from their offices and launches into yet another attack on The Mail.

    I do find it entertaining. He honestly asked one contributor if lamb and mutton both came from sheep. Himbo sums him up completely.

    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    What an embarrassing attempt at journalism:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu

    Twice as many EU migrants claim benefits here as Brits in the EU, and this is reported as "Thousands of Britons claiming benefits in the EU". It was the same with the study that showed immigration cost the UK £117bn, and they reported a subset where the numbers were favourable.

    God, the pro-EU types are a joke. Completely devoid of facts.

    Reading that dreck was a revelation for me. It felt like the desperate, warped flailing of a dying newspaper hoping to titillate its remaining readers with some ludicrously perverted dribble, clearly bearing no relation to the facts. In other words, it felt like reading the Daily Express.

    It was the first time I've ever felt sorry for Guardian.

    I can see why editor Rusbridger is leaving next year, I can also see the stats:

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/oct/10/abc-figures-show-papers-efforts-to-stem-circulation-decline

    The Guardian isn't just in decline, it is dying. Its readership has halved in six years (and the decline has accelerated since Oct 2014), and the paper will essentially be gone by 2020, when it will become an online phenomenon, and just a more annoying version of Huffpo, about which no one cares.

    Oh, poor Polly.

    Even more annoyingly for the Groaniad, in the last few months the Times has added readers and seems to be making a success of its paywall. That's gotta hurt.

    Murdoch!

    Newsnight is going the same way, it is more Guardian than the Guardian. Today's edition has literally had every person doing reports current or former Guardian, even guests from the Guardian, and the most right wing person they have had on (for balance) Lord Mandelson.

    Echo chamber doesn't even come close to it...more like kinda of weak lefty whining. No sign of those classic interview ripping chunks of all and sundry.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    *jealous face*

    I hope you are taller.
    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    fpt for Charles

    I read Beevor's Berlin on my first ever visit to Berlin. An amazing literary/personal experience. Highly recommended,

    As for the "being descended from William the Conqueror" or whatever crapola, of course we are all descended from him, or we can trace a cousinage thereto.

    We are all part of the great chain of being. I was physically linked to my mother by my umbilical cord, as was my sister (and my two daughters to their mothers). Those mothers were in turn physically linked to their mothers (and, thereby, their brothers, fathers, nephews, at a remove).

    Unless you believe in the (discredited) theory of multiple origins of humanity, we can, therefore, ALL physically trace a flesh-and-blood link to Julius Caesar, the Krankies, Moses, the main members of the Leeds United squad in 1975, Buddha, King David, Father Gapon, Mike Smithson, Jesus Christ, the emperor Montezuma, Gary Lineker's uncle, Genghis Khan, Lord Byron, Adam and Eve, the Prophet Mohammad, the principal musicians in Led Zeppelin, my mad great uncle David "froggy" Skewes, and Napoleon.

    Aristocracy is merely a byproduct of literacy: being able to TRACE one's lineage on paper, thus proving descent. But we are all DESCENDANTS.

    For anyone who cares I am actually descended (and can prove this) from the Emperor Napoleon himself, through his only surviving son (illegitimate but recognised) and various other interesting people. A wonderful historical irony two centuries after Waterloo!

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).
  • DavidL said:

    Ah, pleased to see that Ratty is back. I hadn't dared ask what had happened to him..

    I think the consensus is that he isn't and that it is a bird.
    Damn, I was going to vote for him.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    DavidL said:

    On a cheerful note, its only 30,000,000 seconds give or take a few seconds till I draw my Co pension....


    The now retired procurator fiscal in Perth used to have a calendar on his wall where every day he scored off another towards his retirement. He was quite proud of this and showed it to visitors like me.

    As a means of leading and inspiring his team it was almost unique in my experience but they may well have had a matching calendar themselves, just in case he missed a day.
    Two wise things.. and wise things that have been said to me..

    My mother , don't wish the day to come quickly, it will come soon enough, you are dead a long time. So true
    Time passes in miles per hour equivalent to your age.. So true too

    At Forte's there was an Accountant who had a calendar and he tore off a page a day, retired got his pension as was dead in a couple of months (point one refers)
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    DavidL said:

    Plato said:

    I can go for months without in a Puritanical phase - and frankly it's boring and long. I'd rather die sooner and plonked, than virtuous and sober.

    Virtuous is someone elses opinion than my own life. Why play to their audience? Most peculiar.

    DavidL said:

    Plato said:

    I apparently exceed the national average of Belarus - most amusing. Find out yours.

    I'm not embarrassed by it - be it, own it, love it is my motto.

    bbc.co.uk/news/health-30500372

    SeanT said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Fenster said:

    @SeanT & Sean F

    Beevor makes the point (I think in the notes) that the Russians were a bit pissed off at such attention being brought to their raping and torturing, but that the book should almost be seen as a to Stalingrad, in which Beevor is equally as unforgiving in his account of Nazi atrocities.

    Regarding the jockeying for power, yep, quite bizarre. The chancellery is literally being bombed to smithereens and Bormann, Himmler and Goring are more interested in petty jealousies than they are the death of their country. Sean must be right about the drugs. They must've been on some good shit.

    Himmler comes out as a peculiarly alien entity. Driving past emaciated, injured soldiers in his open backed Mercedes without even acknowledging them. Having just organised a meeting with a Jew (a Jew! The irony) to broker a peace deal with the Americans which would put him in power. Bananas.

    I want whatever he was jacking.

    Is it Beevor who has the mind-boggling story that the Germans decided to leave stocks of drink intact as they retreated before the Russians because it would make them more mellow and peaceable?

    In my quite extensive experience, a Russian with access to vodka is a happier person than a Russian without.

    My GF is the same with cannabis. It medicates.

    And I confess I am probably the same with red wine.

    *pops cork*
    I can claim to be a Kuwaiti at the moment (without the money of course) having been dry since 1st January.

    I am sorry to report absolutely no benefits from my abstinence whatsoever. It has certainly made eating duller and quite possibly me as well.
    Boredom is by far the biggest problem but having committed myself to it at the start of the month I kinda feel the need to get to the end (with the exception of Burns Night of course) if only to prove to myself that I can. Won't be in a rush to repeat the experiment though.
    One benefit is, when you start boozing again, you can achieve a pleasant level of squiffiness with less alchohol, and therefore (I guess) less bodily damage. and better for the wallet too
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Gillray was the granddaddy of them all...
    http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portraitLarge/mw63324/Evacuation-of-Malta-Napoleon-Bonaparte-Henry-Addington-1st-Viscount-Sidmouth

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/11441#.VL2Tn0esV8E
    http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2009/dec/15/james-gillray-cartoons-ministry-justice
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    DavidL said:

    MikeL said:

    DavidL said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Tories and Labour tied - CON 32%, LAB 32%, LD 8%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    Does anyone believe that so many random samples can really produce as many ties as we have had recently? Even if the parties are really tied there just should be more random variation.

    The adjustments made by the pollsters have taken all the fun out of this (Lord A excepted of course).
    Lab led in 5 of the last 6 YouGov polls before tonight.
    Sorry if I expressed myself badly. It is not so much the ties as the lack of movement. Lord A's polls may be "bouncy" but Yougovs have the elasticity of the proverbial dead cat. I just cannot believe that random samples of 1000 or so could produce such similar results.
    I guess they're not entriely random though- what's the total size of the panel? Presumably people will be surveyed more than once- and most people don't change allegiance very often?

    (not to mention the arbitrary and ad hoc nature of the adjustments....)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Miss Plato, my hopes are crushed!

    I just checked on Wikipedia. Reportedly he was 5'6", average for the period.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited January 2015
    Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    I'm 5'10", but if you tickle me, I stretch to 6'1"...
  • Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Is it true that women who wear heels have an inferiority complex? :)
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    The dastardly French had bigger inches than we did. Thats why you see all those dents on cars in Paris.
  • "Apparently anyone earning £20K a year is automatically a member of the global 1%."

    1% of the world is about 70 million people. £20k sounds extremely low. I'd imagine that there are 70m people earning more than that in the US alone (app 20% of the US population).

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Dr. Prasannan, heels were originally worn by men as formal attire. I was doing some research for steampunk world-building fairly recently. Women wore them initially to look more masculine.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    "More surprisingly, Adolf Hitler too refrained from the use of chemical weapons in war"

    http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21584397-how-whole-class-weaponry-came-be-seen-indecent-shadow-ypres

    SeanT said:

    Mr. T, would he? I could be wrong, but I thought Hitler decided against using chemical weapons, even though they were stockpiled and could have been deployed.

    I'd welcome a link. The idea that Hitler exercised moral restraint is quite delicious. He was happy to kill anyone, anywhere, anyhow, if it furthered his cause, and - therefore - the cause of the German people.

    He may have preferred to slaughter subhumans (Jews, Slavs, Gypsies) over decadent Judaised Aryan cousins (English, French, most Americans) but he was still quite eager to slaughter all of them, if necessary. As far as I know.

    Hmm. I'm still unconvinced (though thanks for the link!). I am pretty sure Hitler would have happily used chem weapons against anyone if he believed it assisted his war aims (i.e. win the war). He was quite keen, for instance, to send new and unprecedented secret weapons, like the V2, hurtling into civilian London. Why baulk at a bit of mustard on top?

    More likely, he felt he could win the war, at first, without using them (and risking nasty retaliation), and then, when he was losing, the weapons were irrelevant (because they weren't that effective in total war).
    I wonder if this is just one of those decisions based upon personal experience rather than some sort of logic. I assume that having fought in WW1 he had been exposed first hand to the effects of chemical weapons and perhaps he differentiated between them and other non conventional weapons. Mind you, worth remembering that whilst he may have baulked at using them on enemy troops or civilians he had no such qualms about their use in concentration camps.
    IIRC I read somewhere that at the start of the war the allies sent a message to Germany stating that if the Germans tried to use gas then they would be met with a withering counterattack (the wind, remember, comes from the West generally).

    The Germans (who had them) thought we had nerve gases (sarin etc) and that our response would be with them. At the time we didn't - but the Germans didn't know that!

    I dread to think what would have happened if they had realised.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Well, quite.

    And, yes, Plato, I am tall.

    I have known who all my ancestors are on both sides of my family going back to the 17th/18th centuries are - which must be unusual. Even rarer I have land deeds relating to land in Ireland from before the 1801 Act of Union. One of my aims this year is to pull all the various family material together, for my own interest if no-one else's.

  • weejonnie said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    "More surprisingly, Adolf Hitler too refrained from the use of chemical weapons in war"

    http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21584397-how-whole-class-weaponry-came-be-seen-indecent-shadow-ypres

    SeanT said:

    Mr. T, would he? I could be wrong, but I thought Hitler decided against using chemical weapons, even though they were stockpiled and could have been deployed.

    I'd welcome a link. The idea that Hitler exercised moral restraint is quite delicious. He was happy to kill anyone, anywhere, anyhow, if it furthered his cause, and - therefore - the cause of the German people.

    He may have preferred to slaughter subhumans (Jews, Slavs, Gypsies) over decadent Judaised Aryan cousins (English, French, most Americans) but he was still quite eager to slaughter all of them, if necessary. As far as I know.

    Hmm. I'm still unconvinced (though thanks for the link!). I am pretty sure Hitler would have happily used chem weapons against anyone if he believed it assisted his war aims (i.e. win the war). He was quite keen, for instance, to send new and unprecedented secret weapons, like the V2, hurtling into civilian London. Why baulk at a bit of mustard on top?

    More likely, he felt he could win the war, at first, without using them (and risking nasty retaliation), and then, when he was losing, the weapons were irrelevant (because they weren't that effective in total war).
    I wonder if this is just one of those decisions based upon personal experience rather than some sort of logic. I assume that having fought in WW1 he had been exposed first hand to the effects of chemical weapons and perhaps he differentiated between them and other non conventional weapons. Mind you, worth remembering that whilst he may have baulked at using them on enemy troops or civilians he had no such qualms about their use in concentration camps.
    IIRC I read somewhere that at the start of the war the allies sent a message to Germany stating that if the Germans tried to use gas then they would be met with a withering counterattack (the wind, remember, comes from the West generally).

    The Germans (who had them) thought we had nerve gases (sarin etc) and that our response would be with them. At the time we didn't - but the Germans didn't know that!

    I dread to think what would have happened if they had realised.
    Google "SS John Harvey"
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    Willie Z said:

    "Apparently anyone earning £20K a year is automatically a member of the global 1%."

    1% of the world is about 70 million people. £20k sounds extremely low. I'd imagine that there are 70m people earning more than that in the US alone (app 20% of the US population).

    I think it is £20K net but I agree it still sounds low.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Becoming a temporarily cheaper date really isn't worth it IMO. I noticed I got plonked on much less for a few days - but frankly, it didn't equalise the dullness of it all.

    I enjoy life on full throttle. And the anesthetic of it too - it's not everyones cup of tea = that's cool too. I'm very philosophical about it, that makes some others feel weird. So do lots of other topics. I refuse to comply with them here too.

    Very straightforward.

    DavidL said:

    Plato said:

    I can go for months without in a Puritanical phase - and frankly it's boring and long. I'd rather die sooner and plonked, than virtuous and sober.

    Virtuous is someone elses opinion than my own life. Why play to their audience? Most peculiar.

    DavidL said:

    Plato said:

    I apparently exceed the national average of Belarus - most amusing. Find out yours.

    I'm not embarrassed by it - be it, own it, love it is my motto.

    bbc.co.uk/news/health-30500372

    SeanT said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Fenster said:

    @SeanT & Sean F

    snip

    Himmler comes out as a peculiarly alien entity. Driving past emaciated, injured soldiers in his open backed Mercedes without even acknowledging them. Having just organised a meeting with a Jew (a Jew! The irony) to broker a peace deal with the Americans which would put him in power. Bananas.

    I want whatever he was jacking.

    Is it Beevor who has the mind-boggling story that the Germans decided to leave stocks of drink intact as they retreated before the Russians because it would make them more mellow and peaceable?

    In my quite extensive experience, a Russian with access to vodka is a happier person than a Russian without.

    My GF is the same with cannabis. It medicates.

    And I confess I am probably the same with red wine.

    *pops cork*
    I can claim to be a Kuwaiti at the moment (without the money of course) having been dry since 1st January.

    I am sorry to report absolutely no benefits from my abstinence whatsoever. It has certainly made eating duller and quite possibly me as well.
    Boredom is by far the biggest problem but having committed myself to it at the start of the month I kinda feel the need to get to the end (with the exception of Burns Night of course) if only to prove to myself that I can. Won't be in a rush to repeat the experiment though.
    One benefit is, when you start boozing again, you can achieve a pleasant level of squiffiness with less alchohol, and therefore (I guess) less bodily damage. and better for the wallet too
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020

    DavidL said:

    On a cheerful note, its only 30,000,000 seconds give or take a few seconds till I draw my Co pension....


    The now retired procurator fiscal in Perth used to have a calendar on his wall where every day he scored off another towards his retirement. He was quite proud of this and showed it to visitors like me.

    As a means of leading and inspiring his team it was almost unique in my experience but they may well have had a matching calendar themselves, just in case he missed a day.
    Two wise things.. and wise things that have been said to me..

    My mother , don't wish the day to come quickly, it will come soon enough, you are dead a long time. So true
    Time passes in miles per hour equivalent to your age.. So true too

    At Forte's there was an Accountant who had a calendar and he tore off a page a day, retired got his pension as was dead in a couple of months (point one refers)
    Wise words indeed.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Ha! I've a tendency to narcissism so everything is about me... the men in my life have the problem - not moi :smile:

    Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Is it true that women who wear heels have an inferiority complex? :)
  • Plato said:

    Ha! I've a tendency to narcissism so everything is about me... the men in my life have the problem - not moi :smile:

    Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Is it true that women who wear heels have an inferiority complex? :)
    I'm only 5ft 7 myself :)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Your writing is 6'6.

    Miss Plato, my hopes are crushed!

    I just checked on Wikipedia. Reportedly he was 5'6", average for the period.

  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Plato said:

    Becoming a temporarily cheaper date really isn't worth it IMO. I noticed I got plonked on much less for a few days - but frankly, it didn't equalise the dullness of it all.

    I enjoy life on full throttle. And the anesthetic of it too - it's not everyones cup of tea = that's cool too. I'm very philosophical about it, that makes some others feel weird. So do lots of other topics. I refuse to comply with them here too.

    Very straightforward.

    DavidL said:

    Plato said:

    I can go for months without in a Puritanical phase - and frankly it's boring and long. I'd rather die sooner and plonked, than virtuous and sober.

    Virtuous is someone elses opinion than my own life. Why play to their audience? Most peculiar.

    DavidL said:

    Plato said:

    I apparently exceed the national average of Belarus - most amusing. Find out yours.

    I'm not embarrassed by it - be it, own it, love it is my motto.

    bbc.co.uk/news/health-30500372

    SeanT said:



    In my quite extensive experience, a Russian with access to vodka is a happier person than a Russian without.

    My GF is the same with cannabis. It medicates.

    And I confess I am probably the same with red wine.

    *pops cork*

    I can claim to be a Kuwaiti at the moment (without the money of course) having been dry since 1st January.

    I am sorry to report absolutely no benefits from my abstinence whatsoever. It has certainly made eating duller and quite possibly me as well.
    Boredom is by far the biggest problem but having committed myself to it at the start of the month I kinda feel the need to get to the end (with the exception of Burns Night of course) if only to prove to myself that I can. Won't be in a rush to repeat the experiment though.
    One benefit is, when you start boozing again, you can achieve a pleasant level of squiffiness with less alchohol, and therefore (I guess) less bodily damage. and better for the wallet too
    I wasn't recommending it as a course of action. Merely seeing the positives in a non-ideal situation.

    I am a "glass half-full" (of booze) person!
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    LOL

    PB can be very funny at times.
    RodCrosby said:

    Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    I'm 5'10", but if you tickle me, I stretch to 6'1"...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    edited January 2015
    Right, I'm off to bed with Julius Caesar. Goodnight, everyone.

    Edited extra bit: you're too kind, Miss Plato. Hope you enjoy Sir Edric, who also rather likes a drink.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Cuban heels on the right guy are just marvellously sexy. It says dancer and sexy and alpha male all in one.

    On the wrong guy - it says OMG.

    Dr. Prasannan, heels were originally worn by men as formal attire. I was doing some research for steampunk world-building fairly recently. Women wore them initially to look more masculine.

  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    I can report that the price of gasoline (petrol to most of you) is now $1.69 per gallon at Costco. It's dropping like a stone and by next week should be at or less than the equivalent of a pound a gallon - even for a UK gallon.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Plato said:

    Your writing is 6'6.

    Miss Plato, my hopes are crushed!

    I just checked on Wikipedia. Reportedly he was 5'6", average for the period.

    As Mae West said "Let's forget the six feet and concentrate on the 6 inches :-)
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Tim_B said:

    Plato said:

    Your writing is 6'6.

    Miss Plato, my hopes are crushed!

    I just checked on Wikipedia. Reportedly he was 5'6", average for the period.

    As Mae West said "Let's forget the six feet and concentrate on the 6 inches :-)
    Some people are just so... disproportionate.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    And BTW
    Napoleon was lucky. Look at what poor Hitler had to suffer at the hands of British lyricists.
  • Air raid warden Hodges regularly took Napoleon's name in vain :)
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RodCrosby said:

    Tim_B said:

    Plato said:

    Your writing is 6'6.

    Miss Plato, my hopes are crushed!

    I just checked on Wikipedia. Reportedly he was 5'6", average for the period.

    As Mae West said "Let's forget the six feet and concentrate on the 6 inches :-)
    Some people are just so... disproportionate.
    There's a daily program on CNN called Out Front.

    It's sponsored by Cialis.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Sex with someone of a similar height is good IME. Something I didn't expect - maybe my statistical experience is too small to make a conclusion.

    Good luck finding the right person for you.

    Plato said:

    Ha! I've a tendency to narcissism so everything is about me... the men in my life have the problem - not moi :smile:

    Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Is it true that women who wear heels have an inferiority complex? :)
    I'm only 5ft 7 myself :)
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    The Times - (£)
    ''Terrorist suspects, criminals and illegal immigrants will be barred from using human rights as a “get out of jail free” card under a Tory bill of rights being prepared for the general election. A draft bill drawn up by senior Conservative lawyers will stop “family life” grounds being used to avoid deportation from Britain. It will also state that British judges can ignore rulings by the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, which outlaw bans on prisoner voting and the police being members of a trade union, and restrict whole-life jail terms on killers. ''
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Ha! Do send more Heidi pix
    Tim_B said:

    Plato said:

    Your writing is 6'6.

    Miss Plato, my hopes are crushed!

    I just checked on Wikipedia. Reportedly he was 5'6", average for the period.

    As Mae West said "Let's forget the six feet and concentrate on the 6 inches :-)
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Plato said:

    Sex with someone of a similar height is good IME. Something I didn't expect - maybe my statistical experience is too small to make a conclusion.

    Good luck finding the right person for you.

    Plato said:

    Ha! I've a tendency to narcissism so everything is about me... the men in my life have the problem - not moi :smile:

    Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Is it true that women who wear heels have an inferiority complex? :)
    I'm only 5ft 7 myself :)
    I'm 6 feet - do we need to talk? :-)
  • Plato said:

    Sex with someone of a similar height is good IME. Something I didn't expect - maybe my statistical experience is too small to make a conclusion.

    Good luck finding the right person for you.

    Plato said:

    Ha! I've a tendency to narcissism so everything is about me... the men in my life have the problem - not moi :smile:

    Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Is it true that women who wear heels have an inferiority complex? :)
    I'm only 5ft 7 myself :)
    Aww.. thanks! You too, assuming your single?

    #PBSingles :)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Ace = vote winner from me

    The Times - (£)
    ''Terrorist suspects, criminals and illegal immigrants will be barred from using human rights as a “get out of jail free” card under a Tory bill of rights being prepared for the general election. A draft bill drawn up by senior Conservative lawyers will stop “family life” grounds being used to avoid deportation from Britain. It will also state that British judges can ignore rulings by the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, which outlaw bans on prisoner voting and the police being members of a trade union, and restrict whole-life jail terms on killers. ''
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Golly! Should we tell Heidi or your wife first? The principle lady in your life should give her consent...
    Tim_B said:

    Plato said:

    Sex with someone of a similar height is good IME. Something I didn't expect - maybe my statistical experience is too small to make a conclusion.

    Good luck finding the right person for you.

    Plato said:

    Ha! I've a tendency to narcissism so everything is about me... the men in my life have the problem - not moi :smile:

    Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Is it true that women who wear heels have an inferiority complex? :)
    I'm only 5ft 7 myself :)
    I'm 6 feet - do we need to talk? :-)
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited January 2015

    The Times - (£)
    ''Terrorist suspects, criminals and illegal immigrants will be barred from using human rights as a “get out of jail free” card under a Tory bill of rights being prepared for the general election. A draft bill drawn up by senior Conservative lawyers will stop “family life” grounds being used to avoid deportation from Britain. It will also state that British judges can ignore rulings by the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, which outlaw bans on prisoner voting and the police being members of a trade union, and restrict whole-life jail terms on killers. ''
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/

    This is outrageous - Britain wants to control its own laws! Hard to fault that.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Tim_B said:

    Plato said:

    Your writing is 6'6.

    Miss Plato, my hopes are crushed!

    I just checked on Wikipedia. Reportedly he was 5'6", average for the period.

    As Mae West said "Let's forget the six feet and concentrate on the 6 inches :-)
    ''Is that a quote in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?''

    By the way, as I pointed out earlier the French had different 'inches' (Mae West inches?) to us. So the measurements are still shrouded in controversy (and possibly cuban heels). Where is the metric system when you need it.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Plato said:

    Golly! Should we tell Heidi or your wife first? The principle lady in your life should give her consent...

    Tim_B said:

    Plato said:

    Sex with someone of a similar height is good IME. Something I didn't expect - maybe my statistical experience is too small to make a conclusion.

    Good luck finding the right person for you.

    Plato said:

    Ha! I've a tendency to narcissism so everything is about me... the men in my life have the problem - not moi :smile:

    Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Is it true that women who wear heels have an inferiority complex? :)
    I'm only 5ft 7 myself :)
    I'm 6 feet - do we need to talk? :-)
    We live apart, remember - I'm sure it's not a problem :-) As long as you make a fuss of Heidi and give her bics she'll love you forever
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Plato said:

    Your writing is 6'6.

    Miss Plato, my hopes are crushed!

    I just checked on Wikipedia. Reportedly he was 5'6", average for the period.

    As Mae West said "Let's forget the six feet and concentrate on the 6 inches :-)
    ''Is that a quote in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?''

    By the way, as I pointed out earlier the French had different 'inches' (Mae West inches?) to us. So the measurements are still shrouded in controversy (and possibly cuban heels). Where is the metric system when you need it.
    In part of the Beagle spacecraft?
  • We're discussing Plato's sex life again - oh dear.

    And I came here for intelligent discussion... Bring back tim - all is forgiven...
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    A very sensible arrangement. My kitties like to watch. Is that a problem?
    Tim_B said:

    Plato said:

    Golly! Should we tell Heidi or your wife first? The principle lady in your life should give her consent...

    Tim_B said:

    Plato said:

    Sex with someone of a similar height is good IME. Something I didn't expect - maybe my statistical experience is too small to make a conclusion.

    Good luck finding the right person for you.

    Plato said:

    Ha! I've a tendency to narcissism so everything is about me... the men in my life have the problem - not moi :smile:

    Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Is it true that women who wear heels have an inferiority complex? :)
    I'm only 5ft 7 myself :)
    I'm 6 feet - do we need to talk? :-)
    We live apart, remember - I'm sure it's not a problem :-) As long as you make a fuss of Heidi and give her bics she'll love you forever
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    That's me out then.
    Plato said:

    Sex with someone of a similar height is good IME. Something I didn't expect - maybe my statistical experience is too small to make a conclusion.

    Good luck finding the right person for you.

    Plato said:

    Ha! I've a tendency to narcissism so everything is about me... the men in my life have the problem - not moi :smile:

    Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Is it true that women who wear heels have an inferiority complex? :)
    I'm only 5ft 7 myself :)
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Plato said:

    A very sensible arrangement. My kitties like to watch. Is that a problem?

    Tim_B said:

    Plato said:

    Golly! Should we tell Heidi or your wife first? The principle lady in your life should give her consent...

    Tim_B said:

    Plato said:

    Sex with someone of a similar height is good IME. Something I didn't expect - maybe my statistical experience is too small to make a conclusion.

    Good luck finding the right person for you.

    Plato said:

    Ha! I've a tendency to narcissism so everything is about me... the men in my life have the problem - not moi :smile:

    Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Is it true that women who wear heels have an inferiority complex? :)
    I'm only 5ft 7 myself :)
    I'm 6 feet - do we need to talk? :-)
    We live apart, remember - I'm sure it's not a problem :-) As long as you make a fuss of Heidi and give her bics she'll love you forever
    Not for me - just as long as they don't obstruct Heidi's view.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    We can discuss yours instead. Off you go.

    Really, when a bit of Up Pompeii is too much - get a life. It's 0.0001% of posts. Some of us are having fun.

    We're discussing Plato's sex life again - oh dear.

    And I came here for intelligent discussion... Bring back tim - all is forgiven...

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Bugger.
    AndyJS said:

    That's me out then.

    Plato said:

    Sex with someone of a similar height is good IME. Something I didn't expect - maybe my statistical experience is too small to make a conclusion.

    Good luck finding the right person for you.

    Plato said:

    Ha! I've a tendency to narcissism so everything is about me... the men in my life have the problem - not moi :smile:

    Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Is it true that women who wear heels have an inferiority complex? :)
    I'm only 5ft 7 myself :)
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    One of my friends got gloves for his young daughters with cat faces on both sides. I said "That's great - now everyone can put their hand into a pussy!" He couldn't stop laughing for ages.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    LOL - most amusing, chuckling here. Have to be there to get it.
    Tim_B said:

    Plato said:

    A very sensible arrangement. My kitties like to watch. Is that a problem?

    Tim_B said:

    Plato said:

    Golly! Should we tell Heidi or your wife first? The principle lady in your life should give her consent...

    Tim_B said:

    Plato said:

    Sex with someone of a similar height is good IME. Something I didn't expect - maybe my statistical experience is too small to make a conclusion.

    Good luck finding the right person for you.

    Plato said:

    Ha! I've a tendency to narcissism so everything is about me... the men in my life have the problem - not moi :smile:

    Plato said:

    How fascinating. I'm a Heightest. Unless you're at least 2" taller than me - no way can I date you. I prefer 6' taller or more. And I'm 5'7. My serious other halves were 6'4 and 6'3. I lowered myself to 5'9 once and never felt comfy in heels.

    It's a really weird thing. I can't explain it away - a guy should be taller than me.

    Miss Plato, I believe Napoleon was average height. His derision relating to shortness is due to the immensely successful mockery of British cartoonists (just one more reason we should guard this ancient freedom).

    Is it true that women who wear heels have an inferiority complex? :)
    I'm only 5ft 7 myself :)
    I'm 6 feet - do we need to talk? :-)
    We live apart, remember - I'm sure it's not a problem :-) As long as you make a fuss of Heidi and give her bics she'll love you forever
    Not for me - just as long as they don't obstruct Heidi's view.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Ha! Changing subject - has there been any serious long term Ferguson fall-out or was it another OMG!!!!!! new event that was all heat and no light?
    Tim_B said:

    One of my friends got gloves for his young daughters with cat faces on both sides. I said "That's great - now everyone can put their hand into a pussy!" He couldn't stop laughing for ages.

  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    @AndyJS - That's me out then

    Put it away before somebody sees it! :-)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2015
    I didn't know there were many Shias in Yemen but obviously there are since they're ransacking the capital:

    http://news.yahoo.com/houthis-military-battle-near-yemens-presidential-palace-053139854.html
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Plato said:

    Ha! Changing subject - has there been any serious long term Ferguson fall-out or was it another OMG!!!!!! new event that was all heat and no light?

    Tim_B said:

    One of my friends got gloves for his young daughters with cat faces on both sides. I said "That's great - now everyone can put their hand into a pussy!" He couldn't stop laughing for ages.

    Once the report came out, in which several witnesses recanted and changed their original statements, and the evidence on the ground showed that the petty thief and pot head was indeed trying to wrest the gun from Wilson sitting in his car, it was pretty obvious that Wilson killed Brown in self-defense.

    The New York case, where the obese and sick guy died in a choke hold for the heinous sin of selling loosies, (single cigarettes) is much more problematic. Even though the sergeant on the scene was a black female, this case is far more troubling. NYPD just settled this week with someone else who was put in a choke hold for $75k.

    Holder - no slouch as a race bigot himself - is still 'investigating' the Ferguson PD
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    AndyJS said:

    I didn't know there were many Shias in Yemen but obviously there are since they're ransacking the capital:

    http://news.yahoo.com/houthis-military-battle-near-yemens-presidential-palace-053139854.html

    In a perfect world Sunni and Shia would reunite and sing "I got you babe"
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The Pope's latest gaffe: "Catholics don't need to be like rabbits" when it comes to family planning.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    AndyJS said:

    The Pope's latest gaffe: "Catholics don't need to be like rabbits" when it comes to family planning.

    So not content with fish on friday, the catholic church is now saying catholics cannot eat carrots?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,399
    Tim_B said:

    The Times - (£)
    ''Terrorist suspects, criminals and illegal immigrants will be barred from using human rights as a “get out of jail free” card under a Tory bill of rights being prepared for the general election. A draft bill drawn up by senior Conservative lawyers will stop “family life” grounds being used to avoid deportation from Britain. It will also state that British judges can ignore rulings by the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, which outlaw bans on prisoner voting and the police being members of a trade union, and restrict whole-life jail terms on killers. ''
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/

    This is outrageous - Britain wants to control its own laws! Hard to fault that.
    The point is not that it wants to control its own laws. The point is it wants to control you.

    The cases mentioned (whole-life terms, prisoner votes) are symptomatic of the conflict between a state that wants to do whatever it likes to you, and a court that thinks some things should not be done. The dispute concerns punishment added arbitrarily or nonspecifically. The prisoner votes issue is that they are being denied votes as a class, the whole-life terms issue is that the terms can be varied at will by the Home Secretary. If the prisoners were denied the franchise as named individuals and the whole-life terms varied procedurally instead of by whim, then there would not be a problem. You could do it with a Private Member's Bill

    But those options are not being pursued.

    They are not being pursued because the state wants to be able to alter punishments or impose them on a class as it sees fit. It doesn't care about prisoner votes and whole-life term issues per se: it's using them as trojan horses to get you to agree that it can do whatever the hell it likes to you according to its own whims.

    I appreciate it's a minority opinion on this board, but I think this is a bad move.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Tim_B said:

    AndyJS said:

    The Pope's latest gaffe: "Catholics don't need to be like rabbits" when it comes to family planning.

    So not content with fish on friday, the catholic church is now saying catholics cannot eat carrots?
    I don't know how you think them up, lol.
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Why does an elephant have four feet?
    Six inches is not enough!
    Hahahahaha.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Without wishing to boast, I have two feet myself - and I'm not Jewish.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited January 2015
    RIP Anne Kirkbride.

    It took me back to my earliest days, when I would regularly go with my mother on the train to Manchester.

    We would frequently encounter Violet Carson on the train, who played Ena Sharples on Coronation Street. She was always nice to me.

    Coronation Street was initially commissioned for 13 pilot episodes in 1960.
This discussion has been closed.