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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Methinks that Dave has made a mistake on the TV debates

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  • AndyJS said:

    I always thought the Sylvester Stallone film where he manages to evade capture despite having thousands of men looking for him was a bit unrealistic, but — if events in France are anything to go by — maybe it's not so far fetched after all.

    It is beyond belief they haven't been tracked yet, what are they, the European Hide and Seek champions?

    It is so ridiculous I am not sure we are being told the truth, though I have no conspiracy as to why, just astonishment they are still at large.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,038

    AndyJS said:

    I always thought the Sylvester Stallone film where he manages to evade capture despite having thousands of men looking for him was a bit unrealistic, but — if events in France are anything to go by — maybe it's not so far fetched after all.

    It is beyond belief they haven't been tracked yet, what are they, the European Hide and Seek champions?

    It is so ridiculous I am not sure we are being told the truth, though I have no conspiracy as to why, just astonishment they are still at large.
    The forest they were in sounded quite big, it extended into Belgium, if I remember correctly. I am sure they are trying their best, as any Frenchman(woman) would want to find these guys.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @nigel4england
    A forest the size of Paris takes a while to search.
  • antifrank said:

    I think we should give Emily Thornberry a little space just now - it's her father-in-law's funeral tomorrow. (The late Edward Nugee TD QC)

    I had no idea that Edward Nugee had died. The man was an absolute legend: simply the cleverest man I have ever met in my entire life. This is very sad news and my thoughts are with his family.
    My cousin Ted. 4 high achieving sons, including a Major-General and a knight of the realm. A very lovely man and he will be missed.
    I never met him, but I did know someone who spoke very highly of him.

    Condolences to you and his family.
  • RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    I always thought the Sylvester Stallone film where he manages to evade capture despite having thousands of men looking for him was a bit unrealistic, but — if events in France are anything to go by — maybe it's not so far fetched after all.

    It is beyond belief they haven't been tracked yet, what are they, the European Hide and Seek champions?

    It is so ridiculous I am not sure we are being told the truth, though I have no conspiracy as to why, just astonishment they are still at large.
    The forest they were in sounded quite big, it extended into Belgium, if I remember correctly. I am sure they are trying their best, as any Frenchman(woman) would want to find these guys.
    I'm sure they are too, but how were they allowed to get that far?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Apologies for being late to the party.

    Cameron's stance cannot be defended. It's a strategic blunder at the moment. It could become a catastrophic one if the debates go ahead without him, which they may well if he sticks to his line.

    There's no way in the world the Greens will be invited for all sorts of reasons, which not having read the thread but knowing the PBC community, will no doubt have already have been rehearsed. So either he sticks to his self-spiked guns while everyone else points theirs at him, or he U-turns, or he gets lucky and the debates don't go ahead. But the other three have every incentive in the world to make sure they do if they believe Cameron won't turn up.


    As a non-Tory I would tend to the view that, if the Broadcasters were to respond with an empty chair, they could legitimately be accused of serious bias to the extent that they had not treated Cameron in the same way that they had treated Blair, Major, Thatcher and Wilson.
    Personally I cannot abide X-Factor politics and really hope the debates are scuppered. The electorate at large – I suspect – will not give a toss one way or another particularly when reminded of all the earlier Prime Ministers who turned them down.

  • Pegida planning a march in Manchester, not comfortable with this as I can't see it ending well
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,704
    The editor of the Independent is at least honest:

    "I felt a duty to readers, I felt a duty to the dead, I felt a duty to journalism and I also felt a duty to my staff," Amol Rajan, editor of the Independent, told BBC Radio. "And I think it would have been too much of a risk to unilaterally decide in Britain to be the only newspaper that went ahead and published."

    The Guardian Media Group has donated £100k to Charlie Hebdo to ensure it's not silenced. Better than nothing, and laudable to do so, but that sort of feels a bit like paying others to fight the battles they're too scared to fight:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-30722098

    Stephen Fry has balls:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/stephen-fry-calls-on-the-worlds-media-to-publish-charlie-hebdo-cartoons-9965449.html

    So does the Huffington Post:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/charlie-hebdo-cartoons-paris-french-newspaper-shooting_n_6429552.html

    The Evening Standard managed to surpass itself tonight:

    "Would any British institution broadcast even a dispassionate and historically valid critique of the prophet of Islam? It remains a potentially risky move.

    It would be foolish and wrong for any of us to seek to demonstrate our independence of mind by gratuitously giving offence to Muslims."

    The first paragraph explains the real reasons it's failed to republish them, the second is its excuse. It's penultimate sentence basically admits it doesn't have the courage to do what Charlie Hebdo do:

    "We have the utmost sympathy with the city and huge admiration for the independence of spirit of Charlie Hebdo. We can only raise our pens to salute its courage and hope it continues."

    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-london-stands-shoulder-to-shoulder-with-paris-9964925.html
  • justin124 said:

    Apologies for being late to the party.

    Cameron's stance cannot be defended. It's a strategic blunder at the moment. It could become a catastrophic one if the debates go ahead without him, which they may well if he sticks to his line.

    There's no way in the world the Greens will be invited for all sorts of reasons, which not having read the thread but knowing the PBC community, will no doubt have already have been rehearsed. So either he sticks to his self-spiked guns while everyone else points theirs at him, or he U-turns, or he gets lucky and the debates don't go ahead. But the other three have every incentive in the world to make sure they do if they believe Cameron won't turn up.


    As a non-Tory I would tend to the view that, if the Broadcasters were to respond with an empty chair, they could legitimately be accused of serious bias to the extent that they had not treated Cameron in the same way that they had treated Blair, Major, Thatcher and Wilson.
    Personally I cannot abide X-Factor politics and really hope the debates are scuppered. The electorate at large – I suspect – will not give a toss one way or another particularly when reminded of all the earlier Prime Ministers who turned them down.

    Without Cam, Milliband has no incentive to turn up. Thats why the empty chair is an empty threat. It won't happen.

  • Pegida planning a march in Manchester, not comfortable with this as I can't see it ending well

    Bloody foreigners coming over here, telling us what to do.
  • Blimey - Gordon Taylor has compared Ched Evans to the families of the Hillsborough disaster.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,704

    AndyJS said:

    I always thought the Sylvester Stallone film where he manages to evade capture despite having thousands of men looking for him was a bit unrealistic, but — if events in France are anything to go by — maybe it's not so far fetched after all.

    It is beyond belief they haven't been tracked yet, what are they, the European Hide and Seek champions?

    It is so ridiculous I am not sure we are being told the truth, though I have no conspiracy as to why, just astonishment they are still at large.
    The competency of the French security services must really start to be called into question, now.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Pegida planning a march in Manchester, not comfortable with this as I can't see it ending well

    Bloody foreigners coming over here, telling us what to do.
    The same people who manned the Christmas market?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?
  • Blimey - Gordon Taylor has compared Ched Evans to the families of the Hillsborough disaster.

    The £650,000 gambling addict?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
  • Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    Is that Muhammad from Rotherham or Muhammad from Oxford?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,704
    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    We both know the answer to that, sadly. The bravest broadcaster I can think of is Ch4 Dispatches. But even they would baulk at this.

    Right, must head off for the night. Goodnight all.
  • Blimey - Gordon Taylor has compared Ched Evans to the families of the Hillsborough disaster.

    The £650,000 gambling addict?
    The one and the same.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    AndyJS said:

    I always thought the Sylvester Stallone film where he manages to evade capture despite having thousands of men looking for him was a bit unrealistic, but — if events in France are anything to go by — maybe it's not so far fetched after all.

    It is beyond belief they haven't been tracked yet, what are they, the European Hide and Seek champions?

    It is so ridiculous I am not sure we are being told the truth, though I have no conspiracy as to why, just astonishment they are still at large.
    The competency of the French security services must really start to be called into question, now.
    I'd let them do their job. Bear in mind these guys almost certainly have a degree of military style training, planning, are armed with RPG's and automatic weapons and a huge amount of ruthlessness. The French cops are trying to protect people and capture these guys ( to try to find out if there are others in any cell?) not simply kill them one suspects.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,704
    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Just saw Natalie Bennett on TV. God, I think they might help Labour if they were in the debates.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Maybe they actually don't believe it would be the right thing to do, and are using the "scared" explanation as an excuse.
  • Socrates said:

    Just saw Natalie Bennett on TV. God, I think they might help Labour if they were in the debates.

    I've heard her a few times on the radio and agreed she sounds dreadful. I think her Australian accent also counts against her; I don't want to be lectured on the way forward for Britain by a hippie Aussie.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    Socrates said:

    Just saw Natalie Bennett on TV. God, I think they might help Labour if they were in the debates.

    I've heard her a few times on the radio and agreed she sounds dreadful. I think her Australian accent also counts against her; I don't want to be lectured on the way forward for Britain by a hippie Aussie.
    Oh she's dreadful sure, but that's not the point.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Common sense. Probably don't want to inflame the situation, and give some local nutjob an excuse to go loco here.
  • @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour and Tories tied: CON 33%, LAB 33%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%, GRN 7%
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    antifrank said:

    After yesterday's travesty of an article in the FT on the French terrorist attack, it redeems itself with a very fine piece indeed today on the same subject:

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6ddff0c2-95c4-11e4-a390-00144feabdc0.html?siteedition=uk#axzz3OFcf0JZN

    For those without paywall access, a couple of highlights:

    "Across the world, and certainly across Twitter, people are showing solidarity with the murdered journalists of satirical French magazine Charlie Hebdo, proclaiming in black and white that they too share the values that got the cartoonists killed. Emotionally and morally I am entirely with that collective display — but actually I and almost all those declaring their solidarity are not Charlie because we simply do not have their courage."

    "It is an easy thing to proclaim solidarity after their murder and it is heartwarming to see such a collective response. But in the end — like so many other examples of hashtag activism, like #bringbackourgirls campaign over kidnapped Nigerian schoolchildren — it will not make a difference, except to make us feel better. Some took to the streets but most of those declaring themselves to be Charlie did so from the safety of a social media account. I don’t criticise them for wanting to do this; I just don’t think most of us have earned the right.

    Many, if not most, journalists would self-censor; they would draw back from publishing images that they know would seriously endanger themselves or their organisation — and after this week’s events one can hardly blame them. Companies have a duty of care to their staff and people have a duty of care to themselves and their families.

    There is also a reasonable desire not to give unnecessary offence; but it would be dishonest for most writers and cartoonists to claim they would as willingly mock the Prophet Mohammed as they would Jesus."

    "Every year dozens of journalists are killed and many more injured reporting from the most dangerous places in the world, exposing brutality, war crimes and injustice...

    But the rest of us, like me, who sit safely in an office in western Europe — or all those in other professions who would never contemplate taking the kind of risks those French journalists took daily — we are not Charlie. We are just glad that someone had the courage to be."

    Just brilliant antifrank. Thanks for that.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Common sense. Probably don't want to inflame the situation, and give some local nutjob an excuse to go loco here.
    I agree.. I am not saying free speech should be denied, but why... how can I put it...

    Throw a match on to gunpowder?
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    isam said:

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Common sense. Probably don't want to inflame the situation, and give some local nutjob an excuse to go loco here.
    I agree.. I am not saying free speech should be denied, but why... how can I put it...

    Throw a match on to gunpowder?
    Perhaps we should just put away the gunpowder ?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723

    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour and Tories tied: CON 33%, LAB 33%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%, GRN 7%

    So UKIP on 13% again - 2nd time this week - lowest since October.

    Far too soon to call any trend but, so far, week 1 of Jan is encouraging for Con.

    Also note no NHS impact.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,567

    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour and Tories tied: CON 33%, LAB 33%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%, GRN 7%

    The deadlock continues, with none of the recent events shifting voting intention outside MOE. As I've said before, I think most people have basically decided, and the result is going to be +/- 2 of this for the main parties.

    Which does, I concede to PtP, make NOM looks more likely than not.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,963
    edited January 2015
    MikeL said:

    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour and Tories tied: CON 33%, LAB 33%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%, GRN 7%

    So UKIP on 13% again - 2nd time this week - lowest since October.

    Far too soon to call any trend but, so far, week 1 of Jan is encouraging for Con.

    Also note no NHS impact.
    Nick Palmer and I have come up with a new rule, we won't read too much into one poll, but three polls from at least one different pollster/phone pollster. So all eyes on Populus in the morning.

    Ben Page said in the past the NHS problem doesn't shift VI and as Andrew Hawkins on ComRes says, the polling shows Dave is more trusted on the NHS than Ed.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    isam said:

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Common sense. Probably don't want to inflame the situation, and give some local nutjob an excuse to go loco here.
    I agree.. I am not saying free speech should be denied, but why... how can I put it...

    Throw a match on to gunpowder?
    Indeed. There's free speech, and there's outright shit stirring and deliberate provocation.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour and Tories tied: CON 33%, LAB 33%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%, GRN 7%

    It does look as though the small upturn in Labour's lead before Christmas was a blip.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    Socrates said:

    Just saw Natalie Bennett on TV. God, I think they might help Labour if they were in the debates.

    I've heard her a few times on the radio and agreed she sounds dreadful. I think her Australian accent also counts against her; I don't want to be lectured on the way forward for Britain by a hippie Aussie.
    We sent Julia Gillard over there so it's only fair.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    isam said:

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Common sense. Probably don't want to inflame the situation, and give some local nutjob an excuse to go loco here.
    I agree.. I am not saying free speech should be denied, but why... how can I put it...

    Throw a match on to gunpowder?
    Perhaps we should just put away the gunpowder ?
    Now is precisely not the time to indulge in self-censorship.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    This seat came out as an outside chance of a UKIP gain using my Heath Robinson model

    11/2 not massive though

    "Andrew Turner, the Conservative MP from the Isle of Wight, is fighting an attempt to oust him before the general election amid a “toxic” row over his unusual personal life.

    Local Tories fear they will lose the seat after Mr Turner became the laughing stock of the island when his “dominant” secretary and fiancée of 17 years left him for his adviser - but kept his home.

    Following the split, Mr Turner, who was described as “weak” in an employment tribunal, moved out to live with another local Conservative.

    Meanwhile, Carole Dennett, his “fiery” former partner, remained in the couple’s taxpayer-funded five-bedroom home with her new lover, Nick Finney, an aide to Mr Turner who was in the process of divorcing his wife"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11334299/MP-battling-to-save-seat-in-toxic-Tory-rebellion-after-fiancee-moves-in-with-his-aide.html

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/isle-of-wight/winning-party
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Does anyone know Dan Hodges address so I can send him three white feathers?
  • Sean_F said:

    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour and Tories tied: CON 33%, LAB 33%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%, GRN 7%

    It does look as though the small upturn in Labour's lead before Christmas was a blip.

    It does, I found it amusing that Labour supporters were cheering a 3/4% lead, especially in light of the events in North Britain.
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    There's plenty of time for the polls to move before the GE and whilst NOM is probable it's by no means certain. The A&E "crisis" does not seem to have had much impact, yet, and it does look like some Labour supporters celebrating it, a not very edifying episode, was premature.
  • Julia Hartley-Brewer, just saying...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    weejonnie said:

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Does anyone know Dan Hodges address so I can send him three white feathers?
    Well, I'd think twice about putting my neck on the line, too.

    And, quite possibly, they'd be breaching the 2006 Act if they did republish the cartoons.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Julia Hartley-Brewer, just saying...

    I'm in the red corner tonight for luscious Liz Kendall!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    You don't have to approve of the cartoons to disapprove of the murder.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,038

    Sean_F said:

    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour and Tories tied: CON 33%, LAB 33%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%, GRN 7%

    It does look as though the small upturn in Labour's lead before Christmas was a blip.

    It does, I found it amusing that Labour supporters were cheering a 3/4% lead, especially in light of the events in North Britain.
    And UKIP are trending downward, very slowly. But probably due to lack of exposure, as opposed to something more fundamental.
  • AndyJS said:

    I always thought the Sylvester Stallone film where he manages to evade capture despite having thousands of men looking for him was a bit unrealistic, but — if events in France are anything to go by — maybe it's not so far fetched after all.

    It is beyond belief they haven't been tracked yet, what are they, the European Hide and Seek champions?

    It is so ridiculous I am not sure we are being told the truth, though I have no conspiracy as to why, just astonishment they are still at large.
    Better get the cops that collared Raoul Moat in only 7 days.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    The BBC, appeasers of Islamists:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B63LQYlIYAA9LT1.jpg
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Emily Maitlis looking very embarrassed with political incorrect comments being made by the French grandee she's interviewing in Paris.
  • The ICM poll looked an outlier last month so every chance of a nice spirit raising outcome this month for we blues at least in terms of the likely movements!
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    "Indeed. There's free speech, and there's outright shit stirring and deliberate provocation."

    For me the line is between outright shit stirring and incitement to violence. While outright shit stirring may be offensive, it has to be allowed; incitement to violence must not. And in order to test that it is still allowed, it has to be done from time to time. In that regard, whatever you think of the wisdom of some of Charlie Hebdo's cartoons, they were doing the West a huge service that most of us, and our political leaders at the forefront, were too cowardly to perform.

    There is a wonderful turn of phrase used by a French commentator today - Alain Finkielkraut: "People are homesick at home", because "France [is] changing to the point of no longer being recognizable". Mutatis mutandi for the UK and most of Western Europe.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited January 2015
    Sean_F said:

    weejonnie said:

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Does anyone know Dan Hodges address so I can send him three white feathers?
    Well, I'd think twice about putting my neck on the line, too.

    And, quite possibly, they'd be breaching the 2006 Act if they did republish the cartoons.

    Thanks to Rowan Atkinson and the Lords, I believe the 2006 Act was changed so insulting the religion is fine as long as you don't insult it's followers. Still terrible appeasement of course, but it gives you some scope. I've been trolling jihadi sympathisers on Twitter for the last two days giving ISIS, Islam and Muhammad the stick they deserve, including retweeting various cartoons, and have yet to have the plod give me any warnings.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Sean_F said:

    weejonnie said:

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Does anyone know Dan Hodges address so I can send him three white feathers?
    Well, I'd think twice about putting my neck on the line, too.

    And, quite possibly, they'd be breaching the 2006 Act if they did republish the cartoons.

    If I was a newspaper editor, I'd think more than twice about my duty of care towards all the other staff on my paper. The one's lower down the food chain with families and dependents who would never have the 'luxury' of armed police bodyguards.


  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    isam said:

    This seat came out as an outside chance of a UKIP gain using my Heath Robinson model

    11/2 not massive though

    "Andrew Turner, the Conservative MP from the Isle of Wight, is fighting an attempt to oust him before the general election amid a “toxic” row over his unusual personal life.

    Local Tories fear they will lose the seat after Mr Turner became the laughing stock of the island when his “dominant” secretary and fiancée of 17 years left him for his adviser - but kept his home.

    Following the split, Mr Turner, who was described as “weak” in an employment tribunal, moved out to live with another local Conservative.

    Meanwhile, Carole Dennett, his “fiery” former partner, remained in the couple’s taxpayer-funded five-bedroom home with her new lover, Nick Finney, an aide to Mr Turner who was in the process of divorcing his wife"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11334299/MP-battling-to-save-seat-in-toxic-Tory-rebellion-after-fiancee-moves-in-with-his-aide.html

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/isle-of-wight/winning-party

    So, another UKIP gain ? Lib Dems nowhere.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited January 2015
    Socrates said:

    Sean_F said:

    weejonnie said:

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Does anyone know Dan Hodges address so I can send him three white feathers?
    Well, I'd think twice about putting my neck on the line, too.

    And, quite possibly, they'd be breaching the 2006 Act if they did republish the cartoons.

    Thanks to Rowan Atkinson and the Lords, I believe the 2006 Act was changed so insulting the religion is fine as long as you don't insult it's followers. Still terrible appeasement of course, but it gives you some scope. I've been trolling jihadi sympathisers on Twitter for the last two days giving ISIS, Islam and Muhammad the stick they deserve, including retweeting various cartoons, and have yet to have the plod give me any warnings.
    You're part of the problem, inflaming instead of calming these idiots down.
  • The ICM poll looked an outlier last month so every chance of a nice spirit raising outcome this month for we blues at least in terms of the likely movements!

    No, it'll show UKIP on course for 102 MPs
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,038

    The ICM poll looked an outlier last month so every chance of a nice spirit raising outcome this month for we blues at least in terms of the likely movements!

    No, it'll show UKIP on course for 102 MPs
    Tipping point?
  • Julia Hartley-Brewer, just saying...

    I'm in the red corner tonight for luscious Liz Kendall!
    Much prefer the milf filth, am I allowed to say that?
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    justin124 said:

    Apologies for being late to the party.

    Cameron's stance cannot be defended. It's a strategic blunder at the moment. It could become a catastrophic one if the debates go ahead without him, which they may well if he sticks to his line.

    There's no way in the world the Greens will be invited for all sorts of reasons, which not having read the thread but knowing the PBC community, will no doubt have already have been rehearsed. So either he sticks to his self-spiked guns while everyone else points theirs at him, or he U-turns, or he gets lucky and the debates don't go ahead. But the other three have every incentive in the world to make sure they do if they believe Cameron won't turn up.


    As a non-Tory I would tend to the view that, if the Broadcasters were to respond with an empty chair, they could legitimately be accused of serious bias to the extent that they had not treated Cameron in the same way that they had treated Blair, Major, Thatcher and Wilson.
    Personally I cannot abide X-Factor politics and really hope the debates are scuppered. The electorate at large – I suspect – will not give a toss one way or another particularly when reminded of all the earlier Prime Ministers who turned them down.

    Without Cam, Milliband has no incentive to turn up. Thats why the empty chair is an empty threat. It won't happen.

    Agreed - I never thought I would see the Tories allied with the Greens, and LibLab and UKIP on the other side. Total hypicrosy from Cameron to be all for the debates 5 years ago, and now his pathetic weakling position today.
  • RobD said:

    The ICM poll looked an outlier last month so every chance of a nice spirit raising outcome this month for we blues at least in terms of the likely movements!

    No, it'll show UKIP on course for 102 MPs
    Tipping point?
    Topping point for some.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    surbiton said:

    isam said:

    This seat came out as an outside chance of a UKIP gain using my Heath Robinson model

    11/2 not massive though

    "Andrew Turner, the Conservative MP from the Isle of Wight, is fighting an attempt to oust him before the general election amid a “toxic” row over his unusual personal life.

    Local Tories fear they will lose the seat after Mr Turner became the laughing stock of the island when his “dominant” secretary and fiancée of 17 years left him for his adviser - but kept his home.

    Following the split, Mr Turner, who was described as “weak” in an employment tribunal, moved out to live with another local Conservative.

    Meanwhile, Carole Dennett, his “fiery” former partner, remained in the couple’s taxpayer-funded five-bedroom home with her new lover, Nick Finney, an aide to Mr Turner who was in the process of divorcing his wife"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11334299/MP-battling-to-save-seat-in-toxic-Tory-rebellion-after-fiancee-moves-in-with-his-aide.html

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/isle-of-wight/winning-party

    So, another UKIP gain ? Lib Dems nowhere.
    Well the betting is

    1/12 Con
    11/2 Kip
    50/1 LD
    100/1 Lab

    So I guess it is a two horse race? As I said, my system made it a marginal chance when I worked it out 18 months ago, but 11/2 suggests there are local factors in evidence too, before this story broke

    11/2 prob a bet to lay back nearer the time
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Socrates said:

    The BBC, appeasers of Islamists:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B63LQYlIYAA9LT1.jpg

    Not even the images on this page?

    http://www.godweb.org/mohammedpaintings.htm
  • Julia Hartley-Brewer, just saying...

    I'm in the red corner tonight for luscious Liz Kendall!
    Much prefer the milf filth, am I allowed to say that?
    I introduced several PBers to the term MILF.

    Including one who didn't know what it meant and googled it in front of relatives.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    isam said:

    This seat came out as an outside chance of a UKIP gain using my Heath Robinson model

    11/2 not massive though

    "Andrew Turner, the Conservative MP from the Isle of Wight, is fighting an attempt to oust him before the general election amid a “toxic” row over his unusual personal life.

    Local Tories fear they will lose the seat after Mr Turner became the laughing stock of the island when his “dominant” secretary and fiancée of 17 years left him for his adviser - but kept his home.

    Following the split, Mr Turner, who was described as “weak” in an employment tribunal, moved out to live with another local Conservative.

    Meanwhile, Carole Dennett, his “fiery” former partner, remained in the couple’s taxpayer-funded five-bedroom home with her new lover, Nick Finney, an aide to Mr Turner who was in the process of divorcing his wife"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11334299/MP-battling-to-save-seat-in-toxic-Tory-rebellion-after-fiancee-moves-in-with-his-aide.html

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/isle-of-wight/winning-party

    It'll be all Wight on the Night for the Tories in my opinion. Better opportunities backing the SNP in the central belt as I said a couple of nights ago!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,038

    RobD said:

    The ICM poll looked an outlier last month so every chance of a nice spirit raising outcome this month for we blues at least in terms of the likely movements!

    No, it'll show UKIP on course for 102 MPs
    Tipping point?
    Topping point for some.
    David Cameron?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    MTimT said:

    "Indeed. There's free speech, and there's outright shit stirring and deliberate provocation."

    For me the line is between outright shit stirring and incitement to violence. While outright shit stirring may be offensive, it has to be allowed; incitement to violence must not. And in order to test that it is still allowed, it has to be done from time to time. In that regard, whatever you think of the wisdom of some of Charlie Hebdo's cartoons, they were doing the West a huge service that most of us, and our political leaders at the forefront, were too cowardly to perform.

    There is a wonderful turn of phrase used by a French commentator today - Alain Finkielkraut: "People are homesick at home", because "France [is] changing to the point of no longer being recognizable". Mutatis mutandi for the UK and most of Western Europe.

    A nice turn of phrase. It's quite clear at this point that Muslim immigrants, in aggregate, are absolutely the worst at integrating relative to any other group. To stop aggravating the problem, we need to slow immigration of Muslims to a trickle at best, although I'm blase about doing this explicitly or through various policy tricks. We also need to do our best to close down Muslim schools and break up Muslim areas in our towns and cities. TSE has openly admitted that he has benefitted from growing up in a non-Muslim area than a Muslim one, and integration would happen far faster if that happens. I know this all sounds radical, but if we don't do this, we're still going to have these problems in 2115.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,384
    Odd that Question Time doesn't have anybody representing the coalition today?
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    isam said:

    surbiton said:

    isam said:

    This seat came out as an outside chance of a UKIP gain using my Heath Robinson model

    11/2 not massive though

    "Andrew Turner, the Conservative MP from the Isle of Wight, is fighting an attempt to oust him before the general election amid a “toxic” row over his unusual personal life.

    Local Tories fear they will lose the seat after Mr Turner became the laughing stock of the island when his “dominant” secretary and fiancée of 17 years left him for his adviser - but kept his home.

    Following the split, Mr Turner, who was described as “weak” in an employment tribunal, moved out to live with another local Conservative.

    Meanwhile, Carole Dennett, his “fiery” former partner, remained in the couple’s taxpayer-funded five-bedroom home with her new lover, Nick Finney, an aide to Mr Turner who was in the process of divorcing his wife"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11334299/MP-battling-to-save-seat-in-toxic-Tory-rebellion-after-fiancee-moves-in-with-his-aide.html

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/isle-of-wight/winning-party

    So, another UKIP gain ? Lib Dems nowhere.
    Well the betting is

    1/12 Con
    11/2 Kip
    50/1 LD
    100/1 Lab

    So I guess it is a two horse race? As I said, my system made it a marginal chance when I worked it out 18 months ago, but 11/2 suggests there are local factors in evidence too, before this story broke

    11/2 prob a bet to lay back nearer the time
    I remember Andrew Turner gaining it from the LibDems in 2001 as one of the last declarations of that election - not that anyone but us complete political anoraks was interested at that state of proceedings with another Labour landslide! How the Lib Dem vote has melted away there over the past 14 years. Heck, even Mrs Thatcher couldn't win the seat after personally visiting the seat in her landslide win in 1983.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "neck on the line"

    "topping point"

    Is this a theme developing?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    surbiton said:

    isam said:

    This seat came out as an outside chance of a UKIP gain using my Heath Robinson model

    11/2 not massive though

    "Andrew Turner, the Conservative MP from the Isle of Wight, is fighting an attempt to oust him before the general election amid a “toxic” row over his unusual personal life.

    Local Tories fear they will lose the seat after Mr Turner became the laughing stock of the island when his “dominant” secretary and fiancée of 17 years left him for his adviser - but kept his home.

    Following the split, Mr Turner, who was described as “weak” in an employment tribunal, moved out to live with another local Conservative.

    Meanwhile, Carole Dennett, his “fiery” former partner, remained in the couple’s taxpayer-funded five-bedroom home with her new lover, Nick Finney, an aide to Mr Turner who was in the process of divorcing his wife"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11334299/MP-battling-to-save-seat-in-toxic-Tory-rebellion-after-fiancee-moves-in-with-his-aide.html

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/isle-of-wight/winning-party

    So, another UKIP gain ? Lib Dems nowhere.
    Well the betting is

    1/12 Con
    11/2 Kip
    50/1 LD
    100/1 Lab

    So I guess it is a two horse race? As I said, my system made it a marginal chance when I worked it out 18 months ago, but 11/2 suggests there are local factors in evidence too, before this story broke

    11/2 prob a bet to lay back nearer the time
    I know the IOW, as I have some cousins there. The Isle has some interesting local politics, with a number of interesting local issues.

    It is quite distinct from the mainland, but I would not think fertile UKIP territory.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Disappointing polls for Labour so far this month. Need to be at least 5 points ahead but only on average 1 point ahead. Squeaky bum time.

    The news has been Labour friendly this week - will it reflect in the polls going forward?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    Sean_F said:

    weejonnie said:

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Does anyone know Dan Hodges address so I can send him three white feathers?
    Well, I'd think twice about putting my neck on the line, too.

    And, quite possibly, they'd be breaching the 2006 Act if they did republish the cartoons.

    If I was a newspaper editor, I'd think more than twice about my duty of care towards all the other staff on my paper. The one's lower down the food chain with families and dependents who would never have the 'luxury' of armed police bodyguards.


    I'm not claiming that my view is in any way admirable. I'm just not criticising people who take a similar view to me.

    People who are prepared to tell these lunatics what they think of them deserve high praise.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    MikeL said:

    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour and Tories tied: CON 33%, LAB 33%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%, GRN 7%

    So UKIP on 13% again - 2nd time this week - lowest since October.

    Far too soon to call any trend but, so far, week 1 of Jan is encouraging for Con.

    Also note no NHS impact.
    You more Ukip get promoted the lower they trend. Their Toxic reputation is seeping slowly into the fibre of the nation.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,038
    AndyJS said:

    "neck on the line"

    "topping point"

    Is this a theme developing?

    PBers often fail at being funny? ;)
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    murali_s said:

    Disappointing polls for Labour so far this month. Need to be at least 5 points ahead but only on average 1 point ahead. Squeaky bum time.

    The news has been Labour friendly this week - will it reflect in the polls going forward?

    Lets see what other pollsters say, YouGov have had constant crossovers/level polls since October.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    TGOHF said:

    MikeL said:

    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour and Tories tied: CON 33%, LAB 33%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%, GRN 7%

    So UKIP on 13% again - 2nd time this week - lowest since October.

    Far too soon to call any trend but, so far, week 1 of Jan is encouraging for Con.

    Also note no NHS impact.
    You more Ukip get promoted the lower they trend. Their Toxic reputation is seeping slowly into the fibre of the nation.
    We get told by Cameroons about once a fortnight that UKIP are in decline. Still, I suppose you have to keep whistling.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    surbiton said:

    isam said:

    This seat came out as an outside chance of a UKIP gain using my Heath Robinson model

    11/2 not massive though

    "Andrew Turner, the Conservative MP from the Isle of Wight, is fighting an attempt to oust him before the general election amid a “toxic” row over his unusual personal life.

    Local Tories fear they will lose the seat after Mr Turner became the laughing stock of the island when his “dominant” secretary and fiancée of 17 years left him for his adviser - but kept his home.

    Following the split, Mr Turner, who was described as “weak” in an employment tribunal, moved out to live with another local Conservative.

    Meanwhile, Carole Dennett, his “fiery” former partner, remained in the couple’s taxpayer-funded five-bedroom home with her new lover, Nick Finney, an aide to Mr Turner who was in the process of divorcing his wife"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11334299/MP-battling-to-save-seat-in-toxic-Tory-rebellion-after-fiancee-moves-in-with-his-aide.html

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/isle-of-wight/winning-party

    So, another UKIP gain ? Lib Dems nowhere.
    Well the betting is

    1/12 Con
    11/2 Kip
    50/1 LD
    100/1 Lab

    So I guess it is a two horse race? As I said, my system made it a marginal chance when I worked it out 18 months ago, but 11/2 suggests there are local factors in evidence too, before this story broke

    11/2 prob a bet to lay back nearer the time
    I know the IOW, as I have some cousins there. The Isle has some interesting local politics, with a number of interesting local issues.

    It is quite distinct from the mainland, but I would not think fertile UKIP territory.
    No real opinion, just saying when I did the stats they came out as an outside chance.. and this story prob helps

    Here are the results from last time

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Wight_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections_in_the_2010s
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited January 2015
    Socrates said:

    Sean_F said:

    weejonnie said:

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Does anyone know Dan Hodges address so I can send him three white feathers?
    Well, I'd think twice about putting my neck on the line, too.

    And, quite possibly, they'd be breaching the 2006 Act if they did republish the cartoons.

    Thanks to Rowan Atkinson and the Lords, I believe the 2006 Act was changed so insulting the religion is fine as long as you don't insult it's followers. Still terrible appeasement of course, but it gives you some scope. I've been trolling jihadi sympathisers on Twitter for the last two days giving ISIS, Islam and Muhammad the stick they deserve, including retweeting various cartoons, and have yet to have the plod give me any warnings.
    What harm has Muhammad done to you ? He has been dead for almost 1400 years !
  • This is the week YouGov started prompting UKIP and twice this week they've hit 3 month lows
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    weejonnie said:

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Does anyone know Dan Hodges address so I can send him three white feathers?
    Well, I'd think twice about putting my neck on the line, too.

    And, quite possibly, they'd be breaching the 2006 Act if they did republish the cartoons.

    If I was a newspaper editor, I'd think more than twice about my duty of care towards all the other staff on my paper. The one's lower down the food chain with families and dependents who would never have the 'luxury' of armed police bodyguards.


    I'm not claiming that my view is in any way admirable. I'm just not criticising people who take a similar view to me.

    People who are prepared to tell these lunatics what they think of them deserve high praise.

    I usually don't publish personal details on here, but I worked for a newspaper that published the Jutland Post images at the time. The decision was made above my pay grade, but I strongly backed the editor's decision in a very heated editorial meeting. Looking back, I don't really think my own safety crossed my mind, but I'd like to think I'd make the same decision again.
  • RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    "neck on the line"

    "topping point"

    Is this a theme developing?

    PBers often fail at being funny? ;)
    Is my attempt to turn PB into Carry on don't lose your head.

    Citizen Camembert vs the Black Fingernail
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    This is the week YouGov started prompting UKIP and twice this week they've hit 3 month lows

    The barrage of negativity is hitting home - do you really want a Kipper as your MP ? There is a lag but they are now deeply passé.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Julia Hartley-Brewer, just saying...

    I'm in the red corner tonight for luscious Liz Kendall!
    Much prefer the milf filth, am I allowed to say that?
    Liz Kendall having a great QT. Passionate and feisty!

    I would like her as next Labour leader, still good odds.

  • TGOHF said:

    This is the week YouGov started prompting UKIP and twice this week they've hit 3 month lows

    The barrage of negativity is hitting home - do you really want a Kipper as your MP ? There is a lag but they are now deeply passé.
    Maybe.

    Is interesting, ComRes started prompting for UKIP and it didn't lead to a boost but the first pollster to prompt for UKIP, survation generally has the highest score for UKIP, although that maybe more down to Survation's general methodology.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    So did Islington South UKIP select a candidate tonight?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    TGOHF said:

    This is the week YouGov started prompting UKIP and twice this week they've hit 3 month lows

    The barrage of negativity is hitting home - do you really want a Kipper as your MP ? There is a lag but they are now deeply passé.
    They're still strong enough that Cameron the Cowardly is running away. And the Tories on here sound like the fawning minstrel.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    justin124 said:

    Apologies for being late to the party.

    Cameron's stance cannot be defended. It's a strategic blunder at the moment. It could become a catastrophic one if the debates go ahead without him, which they may well if he sticks to his line.

    There's no way in the world the Greens will be invited for all sorts of reasons, which not having read the thread but knowing the PBC community, will no doubt have already have been rehearsed. So either he sticks to his self-spiked guns while everyone else points theirs at him, or he U-turns, or he gets lucky and the debates don't go ahead. But the other three have every incentive in the world to make sure they do if they believe Cameron won't turn up.


    As a non-Tory I would tend to the view that, if the Broadcasters were to respond with an empty chair, they could legitimately be accused of serious bias to the extent that they had not treated Cameron in the same way that they had treated Blair, Major, Thatcher and Wilson.
    Personally I cannot abide X-Factor politics and really hope the debates are scuppered. The electorate at large – I suspect – will not give a toss one way or another particularly when reminded of all the earlier Prime Ministers who turned them down.

    I disagree. The broadcasters like debates precisely because they *do* like X Factor contests. They will do what they can to make sure they happen. They threatened to empty chair any leader who turned down an invite in 2010 and could do so again. The precedent is there from the Euro elections (admittedly, that was before the election period but it's worth remembering that the rules effectively state that a party that turns down a reasonable opportunity to respond or participate is still counted as having been included for purposes of coverage time).

    As for Ed, he will have dodged a bullet if Cameron doesn't turn up. Yes, Farage will lob some verbal grenades in his direction but any absent leader will be the target of all those who are there for the very simple reason that they can't respond. In a 4-way debate, Miliband may well be Farage's main target but in a 3-way one the dynamics would be totally different.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Isle of Wight is definitely a candidate for an under the radar UKIP win IMO.
    isam said:

    This seat came out as an outside chance of a UKIP gain using my Heath Robinson model

    11/2 not massive though

    "Andrew Turner, the Conservative MP from the Isle of Wight, is fighting an attempt to oust him before the general election amid a “toxic” row over his unusual personal life.

    Local Tories fear they will lose the seat after Mr Turner became the laughing stock of the island when his “dominant” secretary and fiancée of 17 years left him for his adviser - but kept his home.

    Following the split, Mr Turner, who was described as “weak” in an employment tribunal, moved out to live with another local Conservative.

    Meanwhile, Carole Dennett, his “fiery” former partner, remained in the couple’s taxpayer-funded five-bedroom home with her new lover, Nick Finney, an aide to Mr Turner who was in the process of divorcing his wife"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11334299/MP-battling-to-save-seat-in-toxic-Tory-rebellion-after-fiancee-moves-in-with-his-aide.html

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/isle-of-wight/winning-party

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2015

    Julia Hartley-Brewer, just saying...

    I'm in the red corner tonight for luscious Liz Kendall!
    Much prefer the milf filth, am I allowed to say that?
    Liz Kendall having a great QT. Passionate and feisty!

    I would like her as next Labour leader, still good odds.

    She thinks people that come out of prison should never be able to earn the money they did before they went in

    Hartley -Brewer speaking absolute sense on the Ched Evans issue
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Socrates said:

    Sean_F said:

    weejonnie said:

    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    @Casino_Royale

    Would any British media outlet even be prepared to write that Muhammad had sexual relations with a child under 10?

    If newspapers in France, Germany, Holland and Denmark have the balls to print the cartoons, why not British newspapers?
    They're too scared, lack the courage to do so, and have said as much.
    Does anyone know Dan Hodges address so I can send him three white feathers?
    Well, I'd think twice about putting my neck on the line, too.

    And, quite possibly, they'd be breaching the 2006 Act if they did republish the cartoons.

    Thanks to Rowan Atkinson and the Lords, I believe the 2006 Act was changed so insulting the religion is fine as long as you don't insult it's followers. Still terrible appeasement of course, but it gives you some scope. I've been trolling jihadi sympathisers on Twitter for the last two days giving ISIS, Islam and Muhammad the stick they deserve, including retweeting various cartoons, and have yet to have the plod give me any warnings.
    You're part of the problem, inflaming instead of calming these idiots down.
    On the contrary, I think you ilk of appeasement is the real problem. We've pussy-footed around Saudi Arabia's intolerance for its oil for so long we've forgotten what we stand for. The problem with 'reasonable people' like yourself is that you end up tolerating the intolerant while throwing the tolerant in jail for being irresponsible towards the intolerant.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    Those BBC guidelines are a disgrace. They have simply internalised a Muslim taboo and are inflicting it on the rest of us.

    I do not consider Mohammed a prophet and do not want him described as such. It is not a fact. The most the BBC should say is that Muslims believe him to be a prophet.

    Utterly shameful by the BBC.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    Julia Hartley-Brewer, just saying...

    I'm in the red corner tonight for luscious Liz Kendall!
    Much prefer the milf filth, am I allowed to say that?
    Liz Kendall having a great QT. Passionate and feisty!

    I would like her as next Labour leader, still good odds.

    She thinks people that come out of prison should never be able to earn the money they did before they went in

    Hartley -Brewer speaking absolute sense on the Ched Evans issue
    David Davis backing Liz.

    I agree there are many professions (including my own) that are impossible for convicted rapists. If he is exonerated on appeal then it is a different matter.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    For murali and all the other AGW apologists on here, the following copious amounts of snow are not being reported in the mainstream media:

    http://iceagenow.info/2015/01/snow-event-century-british-columbia/

    http://iceagenow.info/2015/01/dangerously-cold/

    http://iceagenow.info/2015/01/snow-jerusalem-damascus-lebanon-turkey-athens-algeria-videos/

    Given the position of the jet stream at the moment, we're getting all the mild south-westerlies off the Atlantic, but on the long southern reach of the jet stream British Columbia, much of the north and east of the US and the middle east are getting record amounts of snow.

    I very much hope that we see a lot of snowfall here in February and March when long term forecasts are predicting it, and it would be good to see the Met Office and the government who slavishly rely on Met Office forecasts be made to look like the fools they are.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Iain Dale says that he won't vote for Cameron if he ducks the debates.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Socrates said:

    Iain Dale says that he won't vote for Cameron if he ducks the debates.

    Terrible strategic error by Dave. The genie came out of the bottle by having debates for the 2010 election. There's no going back to the dark ages pre 2010 now, otherwise you'll look totally foolish.
  • Edin_RokzEdin_Rokz Posts: 516
    Socrates said:

    MTimT said:

    "Indeed. There's free speech, and there's outright shit stirring and deliberate provocation."

    For me the line is between outright shit stirring and incitement to violence. While outright shit stirring may be offensive, it has to be allowed; incitement to violence must not. And in order to test that it is still allowed, it has to be done from time to time. In that regard, whatever you think of the wisdom of some of Charlie Hebdo's cartoons, they were doing the West a huge service that most of us, and our political leaders at the forefront, were too cowardly to perform.

    There is a wonderful turn of phrase used by a French commentator today - Alain Finkielkraut: "People are homesick at home", because "France [is] changing to the point of no longer being recognizable". Mutatis mutandi for the UK and most of Western Europe.

    A nice turn of phrase. It's quite clear at this point that Muslim immigrants, in aggregate, are absolutely the worst at integrating relative to any other group. To stop aggravating the problem, we need to slow immigration of Muslims to a trickle at best, although I'm blase about doing this explicitly or through various policy tricks. We also need to do our best to close down Muslim schools and break up Muslim areas in our towns and cities. TSE has openly admitted that he has benefited from growing up in a non-Muslim area than a Muslim one, and integration would happen far faster if that happens. I know this all sounds radical, but if we don't do this, we're still going to have these problems in 2115.
    Interesting, but where do you want it to stop? Do we ban Satanists, Moonies or Wee Free's because they believe in something we don't?

    Unfortunately, there will be a minority of the human species who will become radicalised in some form or other. We have had people who were prepared to cause damage and death to "protect" innocent animal lives as well as others who were prepared to kill for political beliefs such as the Red Brigade, ETA and PIRA (and many others).

    France has had it's problems with Corsica (plus some numpties in Provence) and the OAS (plus the French version of ETA) which is why their paramilitary police are out in force today. When will you ever see heavily armed UK police walking behind a armoured personnel carrier type vehicle to a potential war zone as I saw on the BBC today from France?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    hunchman said:

    Socrates said:

    Iain Dale says that he won't vote for Cameron if he ducks the debates.

    Terrible strategic error by Dave. The genie came out of the bottle by having debates for the 2010 election. There's no going back to the dark ages pre 2010 now, otherwise you'll look totally foolish.
    A large part of why Hagan lost in North Carolina is that she missed the last debate. Tillis went and they continued the debate with an empty chair for Hagan. The result was a double whammy - Tillis got a one hour free infomercial, and Hagan looked silly.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,038
    hunchman said:

    Socrates said:

    Iain Dale says that he won't vote for Cameron if he ducks the debates.

    Terrible strategic error by Dave. The genie came out of the bottle by having debates for the 2010 election. There's no going back to the dark ages pre 2010 now, otherwise you'll look totally foolish.
    Agreed. Shouldn't have agreed to it if he wasn't 100% okay with having them forever more.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Julia Hartley-Brewer, just saying...

    I'm in the red corner tonight for luscious Liz Kendall!
    Much prefer the milf filth, am I allowed to say that?
    Liz Kendall having a great QT. Passionate and feisty!

    I would like her as next Labour leader, still good odds.

    She thinks people that come out of prison should never be able to earn the money they did before they went in

    Hartley -Brewer speaking absolute sense on the Ched Evans issue
    David Davis backing Liz.

    I agree there are many professions (including my own) that are impossible for convicted rapists. If he is exonerated on appeal then it is a different matter.
    Doctors, teachers, people who work with children.. I can see your point

    But being a 3rd division footballer?

    It's bullshit.. and the fact that the main campaigner is a Mike Tyson fangirl just makes it worse

    I'd back him to be cleared on appeal at quite a short price, but really that shouldn't matter.

    He has been released, he isn't a danger to anyone while he is working in his chosen profession, he isn't a world class superstar that kids aspire to be either

    He probably will be role model for some warped types now, he will end up a martyr in my opinion
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