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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Methinks that Dave has made a mistake on the TV debates

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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    The Scottish debate should include SNP and exclude UKIP. UKIP aren't really a major party up in Scotland.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Cameron is proving himself a weak leader by cynically using the Greens to avoid the scrutiny of the debates.The broadcasters are in favour and all the other political parties are too.The public support the Greens in this as it does look unfair,like the BBC's obsession with Farage rather than Lucas in programmes like QT.Right wing bias from the beeb continually.
    Cameron is totally isolated.He must be frit.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    ZenPagan said:

    A few months back the argument being expounded was that UKIP shouldn't be in the debates due to not being classed as a major party by ofcom. Same people that were arguing that are now the ones arguing the greens should be in even though they are not classed as a major party by the same OFCOM they set so much store by before.

    I can't see why anyone could possibly think they are pursuing a partisan agenda on this.

    I wish we could get hold of some of the quotes.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    isam said:

    welshowl said:

    isam said:

    Anyone on PB think it's correct that the Greens be excluded from the debates? If so, on what basis?

    If UKIP were averaging around 5% in the polls with 1 MP and v little hope of getting any more, while the Greens had 2 MPS, 15% in the polls, were favs in 5 seats/spread price of 7.5-9.5, and had won the last national election, I would hand on heart be saying the Greens had to be in the debates and UKIP should stop complaining
    And the SNP are at about 3% (UK wide) but are favourites in somewhere from 10-40 seats depending on who is doing the talking.

    The point is that the landscape is now very diverse and a long way from two party politics of yore, but that all of the Libs, UKIP, the Greens, and the SNP, have strengths and weaknesses that could reasonably exclude or include them. Fairness from where I'm sat says exclude them all ( bonkers in my view given the Libs are in Govt) or include the lot.
    Well if there was one on Scottish TV then by all means get the SNP in place of UKIP I suppose

    But I cant see an argument for including the Greens really, no offence to them
    I think there was a Welsh ( and Scottish as far as I know) debate in 2010, and was a pointless damp squib. It's just not the main event and everyone knows it. Says it all I'm not even 100% sure it happened!

    I think there's arguments of varying force for and against them all except the "big two". Hence some sort of 5/6 then maybe 3 then 2 makes a degree of sense, but I can see getting agreement is very tough.
  • BlueberryBlueberry Posts: 408
    This made me smile - Charia Hebdo on ebay: http://tinyurl.com/ppzqujn
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    ZenPagan said:

    A few months back the argument being expounded was that UKIP shouldn't be in the debates due to not being classed as a major party by ofcom. Same people that were arguing that are now the ones arguing the greens should be in even though they are not classed as a major party by the same OFCOM they set so much store by before.

    I can't see why anyone could possibly think they are pursuing a partisan agenda on this.

    Yes indeed v good point
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,704
    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    I think the empty chair treatment is the most proper in this occasion, let the other leaders have a debate, if the PM doesn't come have an empty chair in his place.

    No, have an actor in the chicken suit, representing Cameron. He acts as the comic relief.
    Last election, we had an actor in a chicken suit following Cameron around on campaign, acting as the comic relief.

    Not sure Cameron saw the funny side.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited January 2015
    The extent of the indignant kippers on here shows just how bad a position this is for Cameron to have set out ... in their eyes.

    As for the reds and yellows their similar moral outrage just confirms this is the worst fate to befall Cammo since his resignation after Coulson's conviction.

    Oh, hang on.


  • GIN1138 said:

    Speedy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Doubt it will make much difference either way to be honest.

    Miliband, Farage and Clegg can huff and puff all they like but ultimately I don't think many people will care about this.

    (I want to see TV debates personally)

    if the other leaders agree to debate without Cameron the impact of that can be catastrophic for the Tories.
    He will either be forced to participate and get humiliated or refuse to participate and get humiliated.
    I don't think the TV channels would dare...

    As Cameron would boycott all the debates, one debate would be just Ed debating himself. TV gold!

    Ed would still manage to lose it.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Cameron is proving himself a weak leader by cynically using the Greens to avoid the scrutiny of the debates.The broadcasters are in favour and all the other political parties are too.The public support the Greens in this as it does look unfair,like the BBC's obsession with Farage rather than Lucas in programmes like QT.Right wing bias from the beeb continually.
    Cameron is totally isolated.He must be frit.

    Yes. The fact that the BBC are reporting that Cameron is using the Greens as an excuse has really done him over. It's clearly just weakness on his part.

    What a disappointment he has been as Prime Minister. I really supported his initial election as leader, but he's been a failure in so many ways. A failure on the EU. A failure on immigration. A failure on civil liberties. And now a failure in being a weak leader. If you're trying to avoid defending your own record in front of your opponents, then you do look pretty pathetic.
  • Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    I think the empty chair treatment is the most proper in this occasion, let the other leaders have a debate, if the PM doesn't come have an empty chair in his place.

    No, have an actor in the chicken suit, representing Cameron. He acts as the comic relief.
    Last election, we had an actor in a chicken suit following Cameron around on campaign, acting as the comic relief.

    Not sure Cameron saw the funny side.
    Will the Elvis impersonator be hanging out with Nige or Ed?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 14m14 minutes ago
    One thing revealed tonight: four broadcasters and three of four parties are willing to sign up to existing debate plan. Conservatives say no
  • Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 14m14 minutes ago
    One thing revealed tonight: four broadcasters and three of four parties are willing to sign up to existing debate plan. Conservatives say no

    three of five/six/seven/eight parties more like?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    I think the empty chair treatment is the most proper in this occasion, let the other leaders have a debate, if the PM doesn't come have an empty chair in his place.

    No, have an actor in the chicken suit, representing Cameron. He acts as the comic relief.
    Last election, we had an actor in a chicken suit following Cameron around on campaign, acting as the comic relief.

    Not sure Cameron saw the funny side.
    Will the Elvis impersonator be hanging out with Nige or Ed?

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    I think the empty chair treatment is the most proper in this occasion, let the other leaders have a debate, if the PM doesn't come have an empty chair in his place.

    No, have an actor in the chicken suit, representing Cameron. He acts as the comic relief.
    Last election, we had an actor in a chicken suit following Cameron around on campaign, acting as the comic relief.

    Not sure Cameron saw the funny side.
    Will the Elvis impersonator be hanging out with Nige or Ed?
    Suspicious minds?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,346

    Mr. Carnyx, after Scottish Labour's comedy stylings this week perhaps you could say the same about the reds.

    It's inconsistent to segregate yourself to one part of the UK and then demand a UK stage.

    But that is what Labour and, above all, the Tories do. They don't stand in Northern Ireland, never mind have seats thee, and the Tories are almost extinct in Scotland as far as MPs go.

  • O/T I have just been VI'd by YouGov
    A lot of additional questions based on the events in Paris yesterday.
    Plus one on what the right threshold of IHT should be.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Speedy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Doubt it will make much difference either way to be honest.

    Miliband, Farage and Clegg can huff and puff all they like but ultimately I don't think many people will care about this.

    (I want to see TV debates personally)

    if the other leaders agree to debate without Cameron the impact of that can be catastrophic for the Tories.
    He will either be forced to participate and get humiliated or refuse to participate and get humiliated.
    I don't think the TV channels would dare...

    Quite right. Moreover the other three wouldn't do it without Cameron. Too much to lose from their respective perspectives:

    Farage. Outnumbered by two metropolitan liberals who'd ceaselessly pound him with the race card.

    Clegg. Outnumbered by two tyros who have the luxury of never having needed to make the difficult decisions of government.

    Miliband. Dedicated his entire leadership to getting at the Tories and Dave. Would have b*gger all to say to the other two.
  • welshowl said:

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    I think the empty chair treatment is the most proper in this occasion, let the other leaders have a debate, if the PM doesn't come have an empty chair in his place.

    No, have an actor in the chicken suit, representing Cameron. He acts as the comic relief.
    Last election, we had an actor in a chicken suit following Cameron around on campaign, acting as the comic relief.

    Not sure Cameron saw the funny side.
    Will the Elvis impersonator be hanging out with Nige or Ed?

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    I think the empty chair treatment is the most proper in this occasion, let the other leaders have a debate, if the PM doesn't come have an empty chair in his place.

    No, have an actor in the chicken suit, representing Cameron. He acts as the comic relief.
    Last election, we had an actor in a chicken suit following Cameron around on campaign, acting as the comic relief.

    Not sure Cameron saw the funny side.
    Will the Elvis impersonator be hanging out with Nige or Ed?
    Suspicious minds?
    More likely in the ghetto surely?
  • O/T I have just been VI'd by YouGov
    A lot of additional questions based on the events in Paris yesterday.
    Plus one on what the right threshold of IHT should be.

    I hope you said £50. Think of we poor IFA's needing the work.

    Thank you.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    john l Jones UKIP ‏@jlj21964 4m4 minutes ago
    How dare David Cameron attack Nigel Farage for telling the truth about multiculturalism - Breitbart http://bit.ly/1KptDC3 via @BreitbartNew
  • 102 UKIP seats.....

    Truly the spead bet offers the road to financial glory for the surging kippers if money is put where mouth is.
  • Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    I think the empty chair treatment is the most proper in this occasion, let the other leaders have a debate, if the PM doesn't come have an empty chair in his place.

    No, have an actor in the chicken suit, representing Cameron. He acts as the comic relief.
    Last election, we had an actor in a chicken suit following Cameron around on campaign, acting as the comic relief.

    Not sure Cameron saw the funny side.
    Will the Elvis impersonator be hanging out with Nige or Ed?
    A little less conversation?

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,346

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    calum said:

    The SNP are wading in with their take on this:

    http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2015/jan/snp-pms-tv-debate-comments

    The SNP's likely exclusion from the national debates will likely result in them being one of the winners. Interestingly, I wonder how many English seats the SNP would need field candidates in before they would be considered a "major party"?

    It's remarkable how un-Unionist the Unionists can be when it comes to trying to exclude their opponents on any excuse whatsoever.


    Perhaps that is sometimes so, but in this particular instance, it seems perfectly reasonable, and I have no doubt the SNP have no real problem with it either. Complaining about it is as much as they would have wanted or needed out of this situation.
    The SNP took the broadcasters to court the last time they were excluded. I'm not sure that anything has changed tto change that.
    English law is not equivalent to Scots. Go knuckle-drag in your lickle parish and leave the grown-ups (English) alone ysmf!
    I am aware of that small detail. However, another important small detail is that English law is not applicable over the whole of the UK, either. So that argument won't wash, unless you want to apply the Scottish Rising treatment.*

    *1820s. When English law was imposed on Scotland to try and get at some political dissidents, as Scots law didn't allow for treason etc. So we saw laws of Edward III of England applied in a Scottish court, with the resulting shambles that one might expect (in both senses of the word).

  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    Apologies for being late to the party.

    Cameron's stance cannot be defended. It's a strategic blunder at the moment. It could become a catastrophic one if the debates go ahead without him, which they may well if he sticks to his line.

    There's no way in the world the Greens will be invited for all sorts of reasons, which not having read the thread but knowing the PBC community, will no doubt have already have been rehearsed. So either he sticks to his self-spiked guns while everyone else points theirs at him, or he U-turns, or he gets lucky and the debates don't go ahead. But the other three have every incentive in the world to make sure they do if they believe Cameron won't turn up.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Jesus. Cameron is now climbing down on EU immigration, even relative to his last climb down:

    It's telling that Cameron specifically numbered the policies, because there was a rather significant one he left out – blocking EU workers from coming to the UK unless they had a job offer.

    http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/01/08/angela-merkel-is-saving-the-british-economy

    So we've got from a points system, to an emergency brake, to blocking just those without jobs, to not even that. Weak, weak, weak.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,704
    Socrates said:

    Cameron is proving himself a weak leader by cynically using the Greens to avoid the scrutiny of the debates.The broadcasters are in favour and all the other political parties are too.The public support the Greens in this as it does look unfair,like the BBC's obsession with Farage rather than Lucas in programmes like QT.Right wing bias from the beeb continually.
    Cameron is totally isolated.He must be frit.

    Yes. The fact that the BBC are reporting that Cameron is using the Greens as an excuse has really done him over. It's clearly just weakness on his part.

    What a disappointment he has been as Prime Minister. I really supported his initial election as leader, but he's been a failure in so many ways. A failure on the EU. A failure on immigration. A failure on civil liberties. And now a failure in being a weak leader. If you're trying to avoid defending your own record in front of your opponents, then you do look pretty pathetic.
    I first took interest in him in the Boris Johnson Spectator article in 2002, I backed his 'Change to Win' campaign before it had officially launched, I campaigned for him, I voted for him and I even argued round one Tory PPC - who was a friend of David Davis - to vote for him.

    To be a little self-centred for a second, I feel entitled to feel let down and angry.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    welshowl said:

    isam said:

    welshowl said:

    isam said:

    Anyone on PB think it's correct that the Greens be excluded from the debates? If so, on what basis?

    If UKIP were averaging around 5% in the polls with 1 MP and v little hope of getting any more, while the Greens had 2 MPS, 15% in the polls, were favs in 5 seats/spread price of 7.5-9.5, and had won the last national election, I would hand on heart be saying the Greens had to be in the debates and UKIP should stop complaining
    And the SNP are at about 3% (UK wide) but are favourites in somewhere from 10-40 seats depending on who is doing the talking.

    The point is that the landscape is now very diverse and a long way from two party politics of yore, but that all of the Libs, UKIP, the Greens, and the SNP, have strengths and weaknesses that could reasonably exclude or include them. Fairness from where I'm sat says exclude them all ( bonkers in my view given the Libs are in Govt) or include the lot.
    Well if there was one on Scottish TV then by all means get the SNP in place of UKIP I suppose

    But I cant see an argument for including the Greens really, no offence to them
    I think there was a Welsh ( and Scottish as far as I know) debate in 2010, and was a pointless damp squib. It's just not the main event and everyone knows it. Says it all I'm not even 100% sure it happened!

    I think there's arguments of varying force for and against them all except the "big two". Hence some sort of 5/6 then maybe 3 then 2 makes a degree of sense, but I can see getting agreement is very tough.
    I don't think a Scottish debate would be a damp squib this time. It would be as good if not better than the UK one

    Sturgeon/Miliband/Cameron/Clegg.. why not?
  • Socrates said:

    Cameron is proving himself a weak leader by cynically using the Greens to avoid the scrutiny of the debates.The broadcasters are in favour and all the other political parties are too.The public support the Greens in this as it does look unfair,like the BBC's obsession with Farage rather than Lucas in programmes like QT.Right wing bias from the beeb continually.
    Cameron is totally isolated.He must be frit.

    Yes. The fact that the BBC are reporting that Cameron is using the Greens as an excuse has really done him over. It's clearly just weakness on his part.

    What a disappointment he has been as Prime Minister. I really supported his initial election as leader, but he's been a failure in so many ways. A failure on the EU. A failure on immigration. A failure on civil liberties. And now a failure in being a weak leader. If you're trying to avoid defending your own record in front of your opponents, then you do look pretty pathetic.
    Sob... If Cameron were to read that it would be like a dagger to his heart! (Of course, this has nothing to do with the expectation that your man Nige would have wiped the floor with Dave - now dashed.)
  • Socrates said:

    Jesus. Cameron is now climbing down on EU immigration, even relative to his last climb down:

    It's telling that Cameron specifically numbered the policies, because there was a rather significant one he left out – blocking EU workers from coming to the UK unless they had a job offer.

    http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/01/08/angela-merkel-is-saving-the-british-economy

    So we've got from a points system, to an emergency brake, to blocking just those without jobs, to not even that. Weak, weak, weak.

    When considering your name for here and elsewhere, did you find Buster Bloodvessel had already been taken?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Jeremy Hunt didn't visit Whittington today, warned about protests. Can it be SOS for health is now too scared to visit hospitals?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2015
    Old Avery LP was doubting UKIP should get major status if polling less than 10%... Lord knows what he/she would make of the Greens on 5%.. I doubt he/she would hold fire

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/337452/#Comment_337452

    Whatever happened to him/her?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    I think the empty chair treatment is the most proper in this occasion, let the other leaders have a debate, if the PM doesn't come have an empty chair in his place.

    No, have an actor in the chicken suit, representing Cameron. He acts as the comic relief.
    Last election, we had an actor in a chicken suit following Cameron around on campaign, acting as the comic relief.

    Not sure Cameron saw the funny side.
    Will the Elvis impersonator be hanging out with Nige or Ed?
    A little less conversation?

    Hearbreak Hotel?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    ITV News ‏@itvnews 4h4 hours ago
    Nigel Farage calls PM a 'chicken running scared' after he rules out taking part in TV debates http://www.itv.com/news/story/2015-01-08/david-cameron-rules-out-tv-debates-in-current-format/

    UKIP Preston retweeted
    The Sun ‏@TheSunNewspaper 6h6 hours ago
    Merkel snuffs out hope of UK regaining control of its borders: http://sunpl.us/6010avuu
  • If Cameron doesn't appear there won't be a debate. The rest will just look silly with an empty chair. If Ed can't debate Cameron he will see no point in being savaged by Farage.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    I think the empty chair treatment is the most proper in this occasion, let the other leaders have a debate, if the PM doesn't come have an empty chair in his place.

    No, have an actor in the chicken suit, representing Cameron. He acts as the comic relief.
    Last election, we had an actor in a chicken suit following Cameron around on campaign, acting as the comic relief.

    Not sure Cameron saw the funny side.
    Will the Elvis impersonator be hanging out with Nige or Ed?
    A little less conversation?

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    I think the empty chair treatment is the most proper in this occasion, let the other leaders have a debate, if the PM doesn't come have an empty chair in his place.

    No, have an actor in the chicken suit, representing Cameron. He acts as the comic relief.
    Last election, we had an actor in a chicken suit following Cameron around on campaign, acting as the comic relief.

    Not sure Cameron saw the funny side.
    Will the Elvis impersonator be hanging out with Nige or Ed?
    A little less conversation?

    In terms of the debates " it's now or never " would seem apt.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    Old Avery LP was doubting UKIP should get major status if polling less than 10%

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/337452/#Comment_337452

    Whatever happened to him/her?

    I think he had a sex change...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Jesus. Cameron is now climbing down on EU immigration, even relative to his last climb down:

    It's telling that Cameron specifically numbered the policies, because there was a rather significant one he left out – blocking EU workers from coming to the UK unless they had a job offer.

    http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/01/08/angela-merkel-is-saving-the-british-economy

    So we've got from a points system, to an emergency brake, to blocking just those without jobs, to not even that. Weak, weak, weak.

    When considering your name for here and elsewhere, did you find Buster Bloodvessel had already been taken?
    I guess this is why Cameron had to run from the debates with his tail between his legs. You Tories can't defend the record so have to change the subject to personal insults. What a sad decline for a once great party.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited January 2015
    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Jesus. Cameron is now climbing down on EU immigration, even relative to his last climb down:

    It's telling that Cameron specifically numbered the policies, because there was a rather significant one he left out – blocking EU workers from coming to the UK unless they had a job offer.

    http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/01/08/angela-merkel-is-saving-the-british-economy

    So we've got from a points system, to an emergency brake, to blocking just those without jobs, to not even that. Weak, weak, weak.

    When considering your name for here and elsewhere, did you find Buster Bloodvessel had already been taken?
    I guess this is why Cameron had to run from the debates with his tail between his legs. You Tories can't defend the record so have to change the subject to personal insults. What a sad decline for a once great party.
    not really. i was smiling in a cuddly way when I posted that... but the response sort of made my point!
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    #tbt The brilliant Cox & Forkum on Cartoon Jihad cowards in 2006. It never ends==> http://t.co/ED68kvbr3b pic.twitter.com/5oVjjMc6Sw

    — Michelle Malkin (@michellemalkin) January 8, 2015
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Old Avery LP was doubting UKIP should get major status if polling less than 10%

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/337452/#Comment_337452

    Whatever happened to him/her?

    I think he had a sex change...
    I've had an "edit" too!!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,222

    Farage. Outnumbered by two metropolitan liberals who'd ceaselessly pound him with the race card.

    I suspect Farage would relish the chance to debate without Cameron. He could continually remind the viewers that Cameron didn't dare show his face and suggest that if you don't like what Miliband and Clegg have to offer then the only party to vote for is Ukip.

  • Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    I think the empty chair treatment is the most proper in this occasion, let the other leaders have a debate, if the PM doesn't come have an empty chair in his place.

    No, have an actor in the chicken suit, representing Cameron. He acts as the comic relief.
    Last election, we had an actor in a chicken suit following Cameron around on campaign, acting as the comic relief.

    Not sure Cameron saw the funny side.
    Will the Elvis impersonator be hanging out with Nige or Ed?
    A little less conversation?

    Hearbreak Hotel?
    Don't be cruel

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,704

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    I think the empty chair treatment is the most proper in this occasion, let the other leaders have a debate, if the PM doesn't come have an empty chair in his place.

    No, have an actor in the chicken suit, representing Cameron. He acts as the comic relief.
    Last election, we had an actor in a chicken suit following Cameron around on campaign, acting as the comic relief.

    Not sure Cameron saw the funny side.
    Will the Elvis impersonator be hanging out with Nige or Ed?
    Good question. I do hope he makes a return.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    If Cameron doesn't appear there won't be a debate. The rest will just look silly with an empty chair. If Ed can't debate Cameron he will see no point in being savaged by Farage.

    Only one person would look stupid in that scenario

    Take your blinkers off and read what fellow PB Tories like David Herdson think
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Jesus. Cameron is now climbing down on EU immigration, even relative to his last climb down:

    It's telling that Cameron specifically numbered the policies, because there was a rather significant one he left out – blocking EU workers from coming to the UK unless they had a job offer.

    http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/01/08/angela-merkel-is-saving-the-british-economy

    So we've got from a points system, to an emergency brake, to blocking just those without jobs, to not even that. Weak, weak, weak.

    When considering your name for here and elsewhere, did you find Buster Bloodvessel had already been taken?
    I guess this is why Cameron had to run from the debates with his tail between his legs. You Tories can't defend the record so have to change the subject to personal insults. What a sad decline for a once great party.
    not really. i was smiling in a cuddly way when I posted that... but the response sort of made my point!
    I posted in sadness rather than anger. ;)
  • welshowl said:

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    I think the empty chair treatment is the most proper in this occasion, let the other leaders have a debate, if the PM doesn't come have an empty chair in his place.

    No, have an actor in the chicken suit, representing Cameron. He acts as the comic relief.
    Last election, we had an actor in a chicken suit following Cameron around on campaign, acting as the comic relief.

    Not sure Cameron saw the funny side.
    Will the Elvis impersonator be hanging out with Nige or Ed?
    A little less conversation?

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    I think the empty chair treatment is the most proper in this occasion, let the other leaders have a debate, if the PM doesn't come have an empty chair in his place.

    No, have an actor in the chicken suit, representing Cameron. He acts as the comic relief.
    Last election, we had an actor in a chicken suit following Cameron around on campaign, acting as the comic relief.

    Not sure Cameron saw the funny side.
    Will the Elvis impersonator be hanging out with Nige or Ed?
    A little less conversation?

    In terms of the debates " it's now or never " would seem apt.
    He'll be 'All shook up'

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    As I'm sure others have noted, it is at least faintly amusing to have the Greens be in agreement with Cameron about something. They must be stunned rigid.
  • Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Jesus. Cameron is now climbing down on EU immigration, even relative to his last climb down:

    It's telling that Cameron specifically numbered the policies, because there was a rather significant one he left out – blocking EU workers from coming to the UK unless they had a job offer.

    http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/01/08/angela-merkel-is-saving-the-british-economy

    So we've got from a points system, to an emergency brake, to blocking just those without jobs, to not even that. Weak, weak, weak.

    When considering your name for here and elsewhere, did you find Buster Bloodvessel had already been taken?
    I guess this is why Cameron had to run from the debates with his tail between his legs. You Tories can't defend the record so have to change the subject to personal insults. What a sad decline for a once great party.
    not really. i was smiling in a cuddly way when I posted that... but the response sort of made my point!
    I posted in sadness rather than anger. ;)
    show off...

  • If Cameron doesn't appear there won't be a debate. The rest will just look silly with an empty chair. If Ed can't debate Cameron he will see no point in being savaged by Farage.

    Only one person would look stupid in that scenario

    Take your blinkers off and read what fellow PB Tories like David Herdson think
    No Big john, there is absolutely no upside for Ed if Cam doesn't want to play. Far more likely no debate than an empty chair.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    GIN1138 said:

    Speedy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Doubt it will make much difference either way to be honest.

    Miliband, Farage and Clegg can huff and puff all they like but ultimately I don't think many people will care about this.

    (I want to see TV debates personally)

    if the other leaders agree to debate without Cameron the impact of that can be catastrophic for the Tories.
    He will either be forced to participate and get humiliated or refuse to participate and get humiliated.
    I don't think the TV channels would dare...

    Quite right. Moreover the other three wouldn't do it without Cameron. Too much to lose from their respective perspectives:

    Farage. Outnumbered by two metropolitan liberals who'd ceaselessly pound him with the race card.

    Clegg. Outnumbered by two tyros who have the luxury of never having needed to make the difficult decisions of government.

    Miliband. Dedicated his entire leadership to getting at the Tories and Dave. Would have b*gger all to say to the other two.
    The downside you suggest for Farage would not be a downside.. Clegg tried it and lost miserably.. you really think having Ed as back up is going to help?
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Good move by dave.

    1. It reminds people of the Vote Blue go Green.
    2. Shows Dave sticks up for the little guys.
    3.Demonstrates he is a man of principle.
    4.Shows the people, he stands up against the main stream media.
    5.The Public are saved an hour of their time , having to listen to
    Tom Bradby, Adam Boulton and a Dimbleby pretending how important TV debates are.
    6.The public see less of the main politicians.
    7. None of the public's favourite programmes , will have to be changed.
    8.A spin room will no longer be required to tell us who won.
    9 Dave can save a sun bed session before each debate.
    10 Dave can not be accused that it is only white middle aged men allowed to debate.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    If the Greens were to participate in the debates, they could create a new record: A party in the debates ended with zero seats. UKIP has a far better chance to return , at least, 1 MP.

    Having said that, I expect Lucas to win.
  • tlg86 said:

    Farage. Outnumbered by two metropolitan liberals who'd ceaselessly pound him with the race card.

    I suspect Farage would relish the chance to debate without Cameron. He could continually remind the viewers that Cameron didn't dare show his face and suggest that if you don't like what Miliband and Clegg have to offer then the only party to vote for is Ukip.

    You might be right! But that's even more reason for Clegg and Miliband to pull the plug too - it would be even more humiliating for them if they partook and it still turned into the Farage Show. (In those circumstances Dave would look a statesman of Olympian proportions whose profoundly good judgement made him steer clear of the circus.)
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Might ed have to defend his position to debate without the greens?
  • surbiton said:

    If the Greens were to participate in the debates, they could create a new record: A party in the debates ended with zero seats. UKIP has a far better chance to return , at least, 1 MP.

    Having said that, I expect Lucas to win.

    102 vs 1

    You heard it hear first....
  • JPJ2JPJ2 Posts: 380
    Ok-So the electorate of England are not to be bored by having to listen to the SNP who may nonetheless may have 30 plus MPs and may be the third largest party in the UK after GE 2015.

    BUT those living in Scotland can be bored by UKIP which is declared NOT to be a major party in Scotland.

    What a farce!
  • tlg86 said:

    Farage. Outnumbered by two metropolitan liberals who'd ceaselessly pound him with the race card.

    I suspect Farage would relish the chance to debate without Cameron. He could continually remind the viewers that Cameron didn't dare show his face and suggest that if you don't like what Miliband and Clegg have to offer then the only party to vote for is Ukip.

    You might be right! But that's even more reason for Clegg and Miliband to pull the plug too - it would be even more humiliating for them if they partook and it still turned into the Farage Show. (In those circumstances Dave would look a statesman of Olympian proportions whose profoundly good judgement made him steer clear of the circus.)
    Indeed, and thats why its not going to happen.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Yorkcity said:

    Good move by dave.

    1. It reminds people of the Vote Blue go Green.
    2. Shows Dave sticks up for the little guys.
    3.Demonstrates he is a man of principle.
    4.Shows the people, he stands up against the main stream media.
    5.The Public are saved an hour of their time , having to listen to
    Tom Bradby, Adam Boulton and a Dimbleby pretending how important TV debates are.
    6.The public see less of the main politicians.
    7. None of the public's favourite programmes , will have to be changed.
    8.A spin room will no longer be required to tell us who won.
    9 Dave can save a sun bed session before each debate.
    10 Dave can not be accused that it is only white middle aged men allowed to debate.

    22 million watched in 2010
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    taffys said:

    Might ed have to defend his position to debate without the greens?

    Only if someone asks him the question...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2015
    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    "David is courageous" "is a man of principle" "would look like a statesman"

    It's all rather reminiscent of Comical Ali. "There are no American tanks in Baghdad."
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Speedy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Doubt it will make much difference either way to be honest.

    Miliband, Farage and Clegg can huff and puff all they like but ultimately I don't think many people will care about this.

    (I want to see TV debates personally)

    if the other leaders agree to debate without Cameron the impact of that can be catastrophic for the Tories.
    He will either be forced to participate and get humiliated or refuse to participate and get humiliated.
    I don't think the TV channels would dare...

    Quite right. Moreover the other three wouldn't do it without Cameron. Too much to lose from their respective perspectives:

    Farage. Outnumbered by two metropolitan liberals who'd ceaselessly pound him with the race card.

    Clegg. Outnumbered by two tyros who have the luxury of never having needed to make the difficult decisions of government.

    Miliband. Dedicated his entire leadership to getting at the Tories and Dave. Would have b*gger all to say to the other two.
    The downside you suggest for Farage would not be a downside.. Clegg tried it and lost miserably.. you really think having Ed as back up is going to help?
    Clegg would do better against Farage in a wide ranging debate , which was not just about Europe.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,222

    tlg86 said:

    Farage. Outnumbered by two metropolitan liberals who'd ceaselessly pound him with the race card.

    I suspect Farage would relish the chance to debate without Cameron. He could continually remind the viewers that Cameron didn't dare show his face and suggest that if you don't like what Miliband and Clegg have to offer then the only party to vote for is Ukip.

    You might be right! But that's even more reason for Clegg and Miliband to pull the plug too - it would be even more humiliating for them if they partook and it still turned into the Farage Show. (In those circumstances Dave would look a statesman of Olympian proportions whose profoundly good judgement made him steer clear of the circus.)
    True. I guess what this is going to come down to is a calculation by all sides about who will take the blame for the debates not happening and if that actually matters. I thought after last time that the genie was out of the bottle and that there was no going back, but now I'm not so sure.

    The public might not care, but they don't set the news agenda. The media might get very angry and keep it in the news for some time and after a while the voters will make up their mind as to who they blame for the debates not happening.

    Right now I think Cameron has made a mistake. I don't know why he felt the need to say anything about this subject at the present time.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
  • isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Speedy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Doubt it will make much difference either way to be honest.

    Miliband, Farage and Clegg can huff and puff all they like but ultimately I don't think many people will care about this.

    (I want to see TV debates personally)

    if the other leaders agree to debate without Cameron the impact of that can be catastrophic for the Tories.
    He will either be forced to participate and get humiliated or refuse to participate and get humiliated.
    I don't think the TV channels would dare...

    Quite right. Moreover the other three wouldn't do it without Cameron. Too much to lose from their respective perspectives:

    Farage. Outnumbered by two metropolitan liberals who'd ceaselessly pound him with the race card.

    Clegg. Outnumbered by two tyros who have the luxury of never having needed to make the difficult decisions of government.

    Miliband. Dedicated his entire leadership to getting at the Tories and Dave. Would have b*gger all to say to the other two.
    The downside you suggest for Farage would not be a downside.. Clegg tried it and lost miserably.. you really think having Ed as back up is going to help?
    I think we can all agree on the following:

    Clegg and Miliband want Farage there because he will mainly hammer Cameron.

    If Cameron's not there Farage will hammer them.

    Cameron won't be there.

    Clegg and Miliband won't want to be hammered by Farage.

    Let's call the whole thing off.
  • Cameron is doing absolutely the right thing for absolutely the wrong reasons. Ofcom is doing absolutely the wrong thing for absolutely the right reasons.

    The Greens do deserve to be there though or else it'll just be the Lab/Con/Kip party with a few side remarks from Clegg.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,567
    kle4 said:

    As I'm sure others have noted, it is at least faintly amusing to have the Greens be in agreement with Cameron about something. They must be stunned rigid.

    Not at all - in my patch, the Tories and Greens are working closely together. The Tories want to encourage the Green vote for obvious reasons; the Greens get the benefit of the much larger Tory email reach, and they both bash Labour councillors and say nice things about each others' statesmanlike concern. It's entertaining to watch, in a House of Cards sort of way..

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Cameron is doing absolutely the right thing for absolutely the wrong reasons. Ofcom is doing absolutely the wrong thing for absolutely the right reasons.

    The Greens do deserve to be there though or else it'll just be the Lab/Con/Kip party with a few side remarks from Clegg.

    Maybe Cameron should have said he wasn't taking part without giving a particular reason, because mentioning the Greens doesn't seem to have been well received.
  • tlg86 said:

    Farage. Outnumbered by two metropolitan liberals who'd ceaselessly pound him with the race card.

    I suspect Farage would relish the chance to debate without Cameron. He could continually remind the viewers that Cameron didn't dare show his face and suggest that if you don't like what Miliband and Clegg have to offer then the only party to vote for is Ukip.

    I think it's true of all of them. Why would they bother to tear chunks out of each other when they could tear chunks out of all of their primary electoral enemy, who would be represented by an empty chair? Clegg's mainly fighting Tory facing seats, Ed needs those Tory marginals and despite his northern inroads Farage's best hopes are Tory seats. Yes, they'd knock each other about a bit but every answer would contain either a gag about the empty chair or be indignant at Dave's absence. Lots of "Ed/Nick/Nigel and I disagree on this profoundly, but at least we do agree that we have to have the debate and give you the choice."
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    Not going to be me...

    I was in Islington yesterday on a date.. not gonna get a 2nd one.. She said I talked too much. and incredibly I didn't mention politics once!
  • Let's be clear on one thing. The leaders of all parties are only interested in one thing concerning the debates, and that is how appearing, or not, affects them. It's not about democracy, or principles, or doing the right thing. It's politics, pure and simple.
    Everything at the minute is all about jockeying for position and horse trading. It's not worth getting worked up about.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    Not going to be me...

    I was in Islington yesterday on a date.. not gonna get a 2nd one.. She said I talked too much. and incredibly I didn't mention politics once!
    Perhaps you shouldn't have worn three flags. Islington girls find that a bit much.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Farage. Outnumbered by two metropolitan liberals who'd ceaselessly pound him with the race card.

    I suspect Farage would relish the chance to debate without Cameron. He could continually remind the viewers that Cameron didn't dare show his face and suggest that if you don't like what Miliband and Clegg have to offer then the only party to vote for is Ukip.

    You might be right! But that's even more reason for Clegg and Miliband to pull the plug too - it would be even more humiliating for them if they partook and it still turned into the Farage Show. (In those circumstances Dave would look a statesman of Olympian proportions whose profoundly good judgement made him steer clear of the circus.)
    True. I guess what this is going to come down to is a calculation by all sides about who will take the blame for the debates not happening and if that actually matters. I thought after last time that the genie was out of the bottle and that there was no going back, but now I'm not so sure.

    The public might not care, but they don't set the news agenda. The media might get very angry and keep it in the news for some time and after a while the voters will make up their mind as to who they blame for the debates not happening.

    Right now I think Cameron has made a mistake. I don't know why he felt the need to say anything about this subject at the present time.

    Possibly because I think he's on record that the debates should be before the campaign proper as it drained life from it last time ( in his view ). Given this is his negotiating pitch to get the debate terms changed time is getting short, as in his view he wants the terms reset and the debates happening in about March/early April. Clearly Ofcom were the catalyst.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Meanwhile in Sri Lanka, a key Presidential election is taking place.

    Is time up for the corrupt war criminal, Rajapaske?

    #PresPollSL
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    Not going to be me...

    I was in Islington yesterday on a date.. not gonna get a 2nd one.. She said I talked too much. and incredibly I didn't mention politics once!
    Was it with Thornberry :D ?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,704
    edited January 2015
    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    Not going to be me...

    I was in Islington yesterday on a date.. not gonna get a 2nd one.. She said I talked too much. and incredibly I didn't mention politics once!
    So you were at an Islington selection, of sorts.
  • antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    I hope it's not me!
  • Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    Not going to be me...

    I was in Islington yesterday on a date.. not gonna get a 2nd one.. She said I talked too much. and incredibly I didn't mention politics once!
    Was it with Thornberry :D ?
    She'd clearly never seen the like of our isam,
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    Not going to be me...

    I was in Islington yesterday on a date.. not gonna get a 2nd one.. She said I talked too much. and incredibly I didn't mention politics once!
    So you were at an Islington selection, of sorts.
    Yes! & was not selected!
  • I had 605 emails in my inbox to try and knock down this evening after the holiday break back-up - 2 1/4 hours on and I'm down to 589.

    Curse you PB kippers!!
  • tlg86 said:

    Farage. Outnumbered by two metropolitan liberals who'd ceaselessly pound him with the race card.

    I suspect Farage would relish the chance to debate without Cameron. He could continually remind the viewers that Cameron didn't dare show his face and suggest that if you don't like what Miliband and Clegg have to offer then the only party to vote for is Ukip.

    I think it's true of all of them. Why would they bother to tear chunks out of each other when they could tear chunks out of all of their primary electoral enemy, who would be represented by an empty chair? Clegg's mainly fighting Tory facing seats, Ed needs those Tory marginals and despite his northern inroads Farage's best hopes are Tory seats. Yes, they'd knock each other about a bit but every answer would contain either a gag about the empty chair or be indignant at Dave's absence. Lots of "Ed/Nick/Nigel and I disagree on this profoundly, but at least we do agree that we have to have the debate and give you the choice."
    Well, if you're going to get Lib-Lab-Kip mercilessly ganging up on Dave anyway then far better that he's elsewhere and not having to face down the onslaught. Better to be a live coward than a dead hero.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    Not going to be me...

    I was in Islington yesterday on a date.. not gonna get a 2nd one.. She said I talked too much. and incredibly I didn't mention politics once!
    Was it with Thornberry :D ?
    If I don't get a move on, the likes of Thornbers could become an option!
  • AndyJS said:


    Maybe Cameron should have said he wasn't taking part without giving a particular reason, because mentioning the Greens doesn't seem to have been well received.

    It does, at least, give some extra publicity to the Greens and gives the general public the chance to mull over the unfairness (or fairness) of the situation. So that's a positive in my opinion.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    antifrank said:

    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    Not going to be me...

    I was in Islington yesterday on a date.. not gonna get a 2nd one.. She said I talked too much. and incredibly I didn't mention politics once!
    Perhaps you shouldn't have worn three flags. Islington girls find that a bit much.
    Beautiful area, I must say. Must be lovely to live there
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    Not going to be me...

    I was in Islington yesterday on a date.. not gonna get a 2nd one.. She said I talked too much. and incredibly I didn't mention politics once!
    Perhaps you shouldn't have worn three flags. Islington girls find that a bit much.
    Beautiful area, I must say. Must be lovely to live there
    I don't really live in what most people would call Islington. I live in what now gets called Shoreditch, with a lapdancing club at either end of my street. It's not exactly picturesque, but it's incredibly convenient for work (no I'm not a lapdancer).
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2015
    antifrank said:

    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    Not going to be me...

    I was in Islington yesterday on a date.. not gonna get a 2nd one.. She said I talked too much. and incredibly I didn't mention politics once!
    Perhaps you shouldn't have worn three flags. Islington girls find that a bit much.
    Beautiful area, I must say. Must be lovely to live there
    I don't really live in what most people would call Islington. I live in what now gets called Shoreditch, with a lapdancing club at either end of my street. It's not exactly picturesque, but it's incredibly convenient for work (no I'm not a lapdancer).
    Old Axe?

    I was in Upper St, so yeah I guess proper Islington
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Upper Street is nice. They could hardly get another estate agent on it, mind.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,704
    isam said:

    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    Not going to be me...

    I was in Islington yesterday on a date.. not gonna get a 2nd one.. She said I talked too much. and incredibly I didn't mention politics once!
    So you were at an Islington selection, of sorts.
    Yes! & was not selected!
    Try again in 5 years ;-)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    Not going to be me...

    I was in Islington yesterday on a date.. not gonna get a 2nd one.. She said I talked too much. and incredibly I didn't mention politics once!
    So you were at an Islington selection, of sorts.
    Yes! & was not selected!
    Try again in 5 years ;-)
    From a selfish POV I am hoping for two elections this year
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,038
    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    Not going to be me...

    I was in Islington yesterday on a date.. not gonna get a 2nd one.. She said I talked too much. and incredibly I didn't mention politics once!
    Surely now you have even more time to be a candidate? ;)
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Artist You mean like the 2014 Euro election results where the Greens beat the LDs?

    Do they not give different status' to the parties depending on the election in question?
    Yes, they do. UKIP already had major party status for the Euros (and went on to win).



    And genuine question Nick - aren't the Greens closer to your political beliefs than Labour? What do Labour offer you that the Greens don't?

    Labour has IMO more active interest in poverty and equality issues, which are pretty central for me. Also, in a FPTP system, I'm against splitting the left-of-centre vote.

    On topic, it'd be a pity if the debates don't happen, but it's not up to the party leaders to decide - it's for OFCOM to propose a format, the leaders to decide whether to take part, and the TV companies to decide whether to broadcast them in the light of the decisions.

    Thanks Nick. First part of answer is a good answer. Second part of answer suggests if the Greens were polling 30% in your constituency and Labour 5% you would jump to the Greens. Which is the level of loyalty to be expected from a Leftie politician. I myself detest political opportunism just to stay in power (cf 2 UKIP MPs).
    Except of course Carswell was going to win in Clacton whether he stood for UKIP or the Tories so your accusation of opportunism is just sour grapes from a loser.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2015
    I always thought the Sylvester Stallone film where he manages to evade capture despite having thousands of men looking for him was a bit unrealistic, but — if events in France are anything to go by — maybe it's not so far fetched after all.
  • I think we should give Emily Thornberry a little space just now - it's her father-in-law's funeral tomorrow. (The late Edward Nugee TD QC)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,704
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    antifrank said:

    AndyJS said:

    Two UKIP selections tonight:

    Rochdale: Masud Mohammed.
    Batley & Spen: Aleksandar Lukic.

    I'm on tenterhooks for the Islington South & Finsbury selection.
    Not going to be me...

    I was in Islington yesterday on a date.. not gonna get a 2nd one.. She said I talked too much. and incredibly I didn't mention politics once!
    So you were at an Islington selection, of sorts.
    Yes! & was not selected!
    Try again in 5 years ;-)
    From a selfish POV I am hoping for two elections this year
    Ha! Like it.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    antifrank said:

    Upper Street is nice. They could hardly get another estate agent on it, mind.

    I've been to the Almeida Theatre a couple of times.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Except of course Carswell was going to win in Clacton whether he stood for UKIP or the Tories so your accusation of opportunism is just sour grapes from a loser.

    In Tory world, candidates changing parties and exposing themselves to the public vote despite no requirement to do so are opportunists, while a leader stopping debates he is worried will hurt hum is an act of principle and courage.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    I think we should give Emily Thornberry a little space just now - it's her father-in-law's funeral tomorrow. (The late Edward Nugee TD QC)

    I had no idea that Edward Nugee had died. The man was an absolute legend: simply the cleverest man I have ever met in my entire life. This is very sad news and my thoughts are with his family.
  • Socrates said:

    Except of course Carswell was going to win in Clacton whether he stood for UKIP or the Tories so your accusation of opportunism is just sour grapes from a loser.

    In Tory world, candidates changing parties and exposing themselves to the public vote despite no requirement to do so are opportunists, while a leader stopping debates he is worried will hurt hum is an act of principle and courage.
    Since when has politics had anything to do with principle?

  • antifrank said:

    I think we should give Emily Thornberry a little space just now - it's her father-in-law's funeral tomorrow. (The late Edward Nugee TD QC)

    I had no idea that Edward Nugee had died. The man was an absolute legend: simply the cleverest man I have ever met in my entire life. This is very sad news and my thoughts are with his family.
    My cousin Ted. 4 high achieving sons, including a Major-General and a knight of the realm. A very lovely man and he will be missed.
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