Terrible news from France. There are far too many Muslims in the world, even in the West, that can't seem to handle any criticism of Muhammed.
And God knows the warmongering paedophile deserves criticism.
Awful news. The right reaction should involve a defiant defence of free speech, backed by armed protection (where appropriate) to such publications in future.
Sadly, I doubt that will happen in this case. What will happen instead is quiet (or not so quiet) encouragement by the government to not be so controversial in future, a lot of handwringing and a further rise in support for the FN.
I hope that media publications around the world stand in solidarity with Charlie Hebdo by publishing factual criticism of Muhammad.
I hope those sanctimonious idiots calling all those regular Germans marching against rising Islamism in Europe Nazis now apologise.
Don't hold your breath.
Tom Newton Dunn retweeted a suggestion that the The Sun should put Charlie Hebdo's last tweet on their front page tomorrow
Must be tempting to phone in sick if you work there
Since none of the British press had the balls to publish the Jyllens-Posten cartoons (and their exact content was surely of substantial legitimate public interest, never mind journalistic value) then I won't be holding my breath.
It's pretty clear why the press does not have the balls - as you put it - to publish this material. You can if you wish to, though.
I believe its because we have a government which neither values nor defends free speech. See Levinson and Police Scotland.
Press regulation is not devolved, so you are muddling your governments. As for Police Scotland, they are merely enforcing the law and trying to stop misery being heaped on victims of recent disasters. If they were d4iven to suicide through lack of police action on trolls, you'd presumably complain, or is that all right? It has astounded me how few people on PB actually considered what the tweets in question were - attacking some very vulnerable people.
Mr. Royale, Telegraph's pixellated the cover, so we already have self-censorship from at least one paper.
If politicians don't lead a strong defence of freedom of speech and the press don't show courage in the face of great danger then the terrorist scum will be emboldened and those with genuine concerns will have no choice but to abandon mainstream politics as mainstream politics will have abandoned them.
Mind you, that's easy to write when one's not a politician or a journalist.
Rape was largely unheard of in Scandinavia until recent years. Who is responsible for all those?
A weird claim. See e.g. http://www.dst.dk/da/Statistik/Publikationer/VisPub.aspx?cid=019019 for the actual statistics for Denmark. Rape offences reported have been virtually constant since 2003 (table 1.1.02 in the linked report), at between 2000 and 3000 a year. They believe that this includes an increased willingness to report the offence, though it's still under-reported compared with other crimes.
I'm guessing FalseFlag was referring to earlier than that: for example the 50s, 60s, 70s.
I was living there in the 60s and 70s. It was regarded as a significant issue, not least because of under-reporting. FalseFlag is simply ill-informed about it. (I admit I've no idea about the 50s!)
Kim Willsher @kimwillsher1- #CharlieHebdo. It was press day at the magazine so all important staff were there. Now 10 assassinated along with 2 police officers.
. There is widespread misogyny, homophobia, sectarianism, scepticism of democracy, opposition to free speech and opposition to religious freedom among pretty much every Muslim population in the world.....
I suspect the population of the world's most populous Muslim nation, Indonesia, would disagree......like all countries they have their share of nutters - but most of what you ascribe to them is simply untrue......after centuries of oppression under Christian colonialism and Western "domino theory ism" they are quite attached to democracy - and unlike almost all their neighbours, no one knows who will win the next election.....
Rape was largely unheard of in Scandinavia until recent years. Who is responsible for all those?
A weird claim. See e.g. http://www.dst.dk/da/Statistik/Publikationer/VisPub.aspx?cid=019019 for the actual statistics for Denmark. Rape offences reported have been virtually constant since 2003 (table 1.1.02 in the linked report), at between 2000 and 3000 a year. They believe that this includes an increased willingness to report the offence, though it's still under-reported compared with other crimes.
I'm guessing FalseFlag was referring to earlier than that: for example the 50s, 60s, 70s.
I was living there in the 60s and 70s. It was regarded as a significant issue, not least because of under-reporting. FalseFlag is simply ill-informed about it. (I admit I've no idea about the 50s!)
I don't normally agree with you indeed I'm usually quite critical. But when you say 'Ill informed' I think you are being positively saintly as well as being very kind.
Out of genuine interest - why do you see this new attack as especially different from others in the past or those yet to come? What has this one changed?
Terrible news from France. There are far too many Muslims in the world, even in the West, that can't seem to handle any criticism of Muhammed.
And God knows the warmongering paedophile deserves criticism.
Awful news. The right reaction should involve a defiant defence of free speech, backed by armed protection (where appropriate) to such publications in future.
Sadly, I doubt that will happen in this case. What will happen instead is quiet (or not so quiet) encouragement by the government to not be so controversial in future, a lot of handwringing and a further rise in support for the FN.
I hope that media publications around the world stand in solidarity with Charlie Hebdo by publishing factual criticism of Muhammad.
I hope those sanctimonious idiots calling all those regular Germans marching against rising Islamism in Europe Nazis now apologise.
Don't hold your breath.
Tom Newton Dunn retweeted a suggestion that the The Sun should put Charlie Hebdo's last tweet on their front page tomorrow
Must be tempting to phone in sick if you work there
Since none of the British press had the balls to publish the Jyllens-Posten cartoons (and their exact content was surely of substantial legitimate public interest, never mind journalistic value) then I won't be holding my breath.
It's pretty clear why the press does not have the balls - as you put it - to publish this material. You can if you wish to, though.
I believe its because we have a government which neither values nor defends free speech. See Levinson and Police Scotland.
Press regulation is not devolved, so you are muddling your governments. As for Police Scotland, they are merely enforcing the law and trying to stop misery being heaped on victims of recent disasters. If they were d4iven to suicide through lack of police action on trolls, you'd presumably complain, or is that all right? It has astounded me how few people on PB actually considered what the tweets in question were - attacking some very vulnerable people.
Terrible news from France. There are far too many Muslims in the world, even in the West, that can't seem to handle any criticism of Muhammed.
And God knows the warmongering paedophile deserves criticism.
Awful news. The right reaction should involve a defiant defence of free speech, backed by armed protection (where appropriate) to such publications in future.
Sadly, I doubt that will happen in this case. What will happen instead is quiet (or not so quiet) encouragement by the government to not be so controversial in future, a lot of handwringing and a further rise in support for the FN.
I hope that media publications around the world stand in solidarity with Charlie Hebdo by publishing factual criticism of Muhammad.
I hope those sanctimonious idiots calling all those regular Germans marching against rising Islamism in Europe Nazis now apologise.
Don't hold your breath.
Tom Newton Dunn retweeted a suggestion that the The Sun should put Charlie Hebdo's last tweet on their front page tomorrow
Must be tempting to phone in sick if you work there
Since none of the British press had the balls to publish the Jyllens-Posten cartoons (and their exact content was surely of substantial legitimate public interest, never mind journalistic value) then I won't be holding my breath.
It's pretty clear why the press does not have the balls - as you put it - to publish this material. You can if you wish to, though.
I believe its because we have a government which neither values nor defends free speech. See Levinson and Police Scotland.
Press regulation is not devolved, so you are muddling your governments. As for Police Scotland, they are merely enforcing the law and trying to stop misery being heaped on victims of recent disasters. If they were d4iven to suicide through lack of police action on trolls, you'd presumably complain, or is that all right? It has astounded me how few people on PB actually considered what the tweets in question were - attacking some very vulnerable people.
Just this week leading politicians in Germany, including Merkel herself, accused those marching against Islamism as being racist.
The whole governing class of Europe needs to come crashing down. Muslims need to stop being covered for. There is widespread misogyny, homophobia, sectarianism, scepticism of democracy, opposition to free speech and opposition to religious freedom among pretty much every Muslim population in the world, including in this country. All the social democrats, liberals and moderate conservatives know this, but they're never willing to say it. It's pathetic.
So what's the solution? Stop all immigration from Moslem countries, you will say; but what about the Moslems who are already here? It sounds like today's French murderers were born in the country; as were most (all?) of the ones who committed the London atrocities in 2005.
What's the chance Marine Le Pen wins the next presidential election now?
Best price is 7/1.
Wow. I might have some of that, if I didn't think it was in bad taste to bet on it today.
I think it's pretty poor value myself.
Fair enough. I rate her higher than a 12.5% chance myself.
What happened when her dad was in the running for president? "Chirac had one of the biggest landslides in the history of French politics, winning over 82% of the vote."
That was then, and that was him. Times have changed. They may change even more.
Out of genuine interest - why do you see this new attack as especially different from others in the past or those yet to come? What has this one changed?
The apparent 'professionalism' of those involved. Look at the footage - they've trained to kill. It's not a lone wolf amateur driving into pedestrians in Tours, or someone stabbing a policeman in Lyon.
Mr. Royale, Telegraph's pixellated the cover, so we already have self-censorship from at least one paper.
If politicians don't lead a strong defence of freedom of speech and the press don't show courage in the face of great danger then the terrorist scum will be emboldened and those with genuine concerns will have no choice but to abandon mainstream politics as mainstream politics will have abandoned them.
Mind you, that's easy to write when one's not a politician or a journalist.
Quite. I find these attacks terrifying. I'm just as scared, and filled with fear, as anyone else.
It feels hard to talk about anything else with the French massacre in the background, but I had an interesting email from a constituent about some specifically Scottish reasons (many related to the sheer distances) behind some of the independence surge. I thought it was worth reproducing here, just for interest. Some of the issues arise in rural England too.
I was in Scotland in the week before the independence referendum, so I was assailed by posters and lobbyists on the streets, and I have been meaning ever since to write to you about what I saw and was told.
I was right on the West Coast, and up there the grievances with the UK seemed to fall into two classes:
A feeling that they were being treated unfairly compared to England, and particularly to London and the South-East. A problem that the present Government's policies bite more harshly in the Highlands and Islands.
For examples of the first category:
London gets CrossRail; Tobermory gets a ferry landing which can't be used at low spring-tides. (Two successive ferries were cancelled on the day I was there, four hours' delay for those trying to use it.) The M1 is widened to 4 or even 5 lanes in each direction; Scotland still endures that abomination the "A-class road, single-track with passing places". Kent commuters get HS1 and Javelin trains; Oban can't even have a connection off the northbound Caledonian Sleeper. (For some arcane reason there is a connection southbound.)
When Mr. and Mrs. MacDougall's youngest son leaves home (because there are no local jobs, another grouse) his parents lose their housing benefit (the so-called "bedroom tax"). For his parents there is no maisonette around the corner, nor tower-block down the road. So they not only have to leave their home in the sense of the house where they have raised a family, but they also have to leave their community. Everybody in the village knows that Hamish was a hard-working man combining crofting with fishing until he had an accident. Now he can do neither, so everybody regards him as "disabled" - everybody except a DWP civil servant in far-off Inveraray who says he could still do a sedentary job such as supermarket check-out operator, regardless of the fact that the nearest supermarket is 10 miles away and only has 3 tills anyway. There is some sort of rule that says an unemployed person can be put under sanctions if they turn down a job which is within a certain distance from their home. (I think it's 25 miles, but I'm not sure.) That may make sense in the Home Counties, but not if you live in a village where the first bus doesn't leave until 10am. In Oban the #1 bus runs from one housing-estate into the centre of town, past the supermarkets and out to another estate; it looked to be well-filled. In the evening the same buses driven by the same drivers run the same route, but now it's #901. Why? Because it's now operated under council subsidy. The bus operator claims that the evening services are not remunerative, and that competition law forbids them cross-subsidising unremunerative services from profitable ones. On the other hand, the council is barred from operating the profitable daytime services. I'm surprised to find that this one still applies - it was illustrated with a cartoon featuring Lloyd George so maybe it's an historic grievance! Many Scottish crofters would like to buy the land they farm. Some of the land-owners would like to sell, so they can invest in something more profitable than rented farm-land. But ... much of the land is owned by shoots of various noble families, of greater or lesser degree, and the land is "entailed" - that is, it cannot be sold but has to be handed down intact from one generation of title-holders to the next. Attempts at breaking this rule have been passed by the Commons but stopped by "English Tory peers".
Terrible news from France. There are far too many Muslims in the world, even in the West, that can't seem to handle any criticism of Muhammed.
And God knows the warmongering paedophile deserves criticism.
Awful news. The right reaction should involve a defiant defence of free speech, backed by armed protection (where appropriate) to such publications in future.
Sadly, I doubt that will happen in this case. What will happen instead is quiet (or not so quiet) encouragement by the government to not be so controversial in future, a lot of handwringing and a further rise in support for the FN.
I hope that media publications around the world stand in solidarity with Charlie Hebdo by publishing factual criticism of Muhammad.
I hope those sanctimonious idiots calling all those regular Germans marching against rising Islamism in Europe Nazis now apologise.
Don't hold your breath.
Tom Newton Dunn retweeted a suggestion that the The Sun should put Charlie Hebdo's last tweet on their front page tomorrow
Must be tempting to phone in sick if you work there
Since none of the British press had the balls to publish the Jyllens-Posten cartoons (and their exact content was surely of substantial legitimate public interest, never mind journalistic value) then I won't be holding my breath.
It's pretty clear why the press does not have the balls - as you put it - to publish this material. You can if you wish to, though.
I believe its because we have a government which neither values nor defends free speech. See Levinson and Police Scotland.
Press regulation is not devolved, so you are muddling your governments. As for Police Scotland, they are merely enforcing the law and trying to stop misery being heaped on victims of recent disasters. If they were d4iven to suicide through lack of police action on trolls, you'd presumably complain, or is that all right? It has astounded me how few people on PB actually considered what the tweets in question were - attacking some very vulnerable people.
. There is widespread misogyny, homophobia, sectarianism, scepticism of democracy, opposition to free speech and opposition to religious freedom among pretty much every Muslim population in the world.....
I suspect the population of the world's most populous Muslim nation, Indonesia, would disagree......like all countries they have their share of nutters - but most of what you ascribe to them is simply untrue......after centuries of oppression under Christian colonialism and Western "domino theory ism" they are quite attached to democracy - and unlike almost all their neighbours, no one knows who will win the next election.....
That a pretty recent development, between 1977 and 1997 the same party won the election there every year because the regime fixed things so they always got at least 60% of the vote, so it was a defacto single party state. Proper democracy only appeared there in the last ten years once they finally got the military out of their elected bodies.
Mr. Royale, Telegraph's pixellated the cover, so we already have self-censorship from at least one paper.
If politicians don't lead a strong defence of freedom of speech and the press don't show courage in the face of great danger then the terrorist scum will be emboldened and those with genuine concerns will have no choice but to abandon mainstream politics as mainstream politics will have abandoned them.
Mind you, that's easy to write when one's not a politician or a journalist.
You undermine your point with the last sentence. I do not see how governments are to blame for what the press choose to do or not do. Terrorism exist because of govt actions - although its a moot 'chicken and egg' point which came first. Newspapers and free speech are not the cause of terrorism. France is a secular society and its govt have thus politically acted to reduce religious influence. 2 policemen are dead protecting this particular newspaper.
"...there lies the certainty of violence on a scale which can only adequately be described as civil war"
All you are doing is showing how wrong Powell was and how foolish he was to succumb to exaggeration. Civil War is a terrible thing and neither here or in France are we remotely near that. In your dreams may be.
Video of the attack is on the geenstijl website. Very graphic.
That's an understatement.
Seriously that's horrendously graphic. I didn't even click play. The still frame was enough for me to close that site.
They didn't buy those guns in the back of a pub. Hardcore terrorists.
Correct and they did not just kill out of some sense of revenge. They certainly killed out of ignorance and fanaticism, but as with the murder of Lee Rigby they kill to provoke a response which is what they need to feed their bigotry. The response should be the rule of law. Anyone who wants to become as mindless as the terrorists (eg by promoting bonkers lies about rape in Scandinavia as a way of feeding hysteria) are just fools.
Comments
I also expect those same editorials to side-step calls to republish the cartoons uncensored on grounds of 'responsibility'.
That say any not ones in connection with a particular crime or event.
If politicians don't lead a strong defence of freedom of speech and the press don't show courage in the face of great danger then the terrorist scum will be emboldened and those with genuine concerns will have no choice but to abandon mainstream politics as mainstream politics will have abandoned them.
Mind you, that's easy to write when one's not a politician or a journalist.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/Several-terrorist-attacks-thwarted-in-recent-weeks-French-president-Francois-Hollande/articleshow/45794359.cms
Don't blame the journalist. Blame the governments that allow them to be intimidated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA8nABHLQQA
Bless
12:46
Le Monde reports that children are being evacuated from schools in 11th arrondissement.
Kim Willsher @kimwillsher1- #CharlieHebdo. It was press day at the magazine so all important staff were there. Now 10 assassinated along with 2 police officers.
Chr8st on a bike.
The cartoonists were very well known, well respected.
I was in Scotland in the week before the independence referendum, so I was assailed by posters and lobbyists on the streets, and I have been meaning ever since to write to you about what I saw and was told.
I was right on the West Coast, and up there the grievances with the UK seemed to fall into two classes:
A feeling that they were being treated unfairly compared to England, and particularly to London and the South-East.
A problem that the present Government's policies bite more harshly in the Highlands and Islands.
For examples of the first category:
London gets CrossRail; Tobermory gets a ferry landing which can't be used at low spring-tides. (Two successive ferries were cancelled on the day I was there, four hours' delay for those trying to use it.)
The M1 is widened to 4 or even 5 lanes in each direction; Scotland still endures that abomination the "A-class road, single-track with passing places".
Kent commuters get HS1 and Javelin trains; Oban can't even have a connection off the northbound Caledonian Sleeper. (For some arcane reason there is a connection southbound.)
(continued)
Of the second:
When Mr. and Mrs. MacDougall's youngest son leaves home (because there are no local jobs, another grouse) his parents lose their housing benefit (the so-called "bedroom tax"). For his parents there is no maisonette around the corner, nor tower-block down the road. So they not only have to leave their home in the sense of the house where they have raised a family, but they also have to leave their community.
Everybody in the village knows that Hamish was a hard-working man combining crofting with fishing until he had an accident. Now he can do neither, so everybody regards him as "disabled" - everybody except a DWP civil servant in far-off Inveraray who says he could still do a sedentary job such as supermarket check-out operator, regardless of the fact that the nearest supermarket is 10 miles away and only has 3 tills anyway.
There is some sort of rule that says an unemployed person can be put under sanctions if they turn down a job which is within a certain distance from their home. (I think it's 25 miles, but I'm not sure.) That may make sense in the Home Counties, but not if you live in a village where the first bus doesn't leave until 10am.
In Oban the #1 bus runs from one housing-estate into the centre of town, past the supermarkets and out to another estate; it looked to be well-filled. In the evening the same buses driven by the same drivers run the same route, but now it's #901. Why? Because it's now operated under council subsidy. The bus operator claims that the evening services are not remunerative, and that competition law forbids them cross-subsidising unremunerative services from profitable ones. On the other hand, the council is barred from operating the profitable daytime services.
I'm surprised to find that this one still applies - it was illustrated with a cartoon featuring Lloyd George so maybe it's an historic grievance! Many Scottish crofters would like to buy the land they farm. Some of the land-owners would like to sell, so they can invest in something more profitable than rented farm-land. But ... much of the land is owned by shoots of various noble families, of greater or lesser degree, and the land is "entailed" - that is, it cannot be sold but has to be handed down intact from one generation of title-holders to the next. Attempts at breaking this rule have been passed by the Commons but stopped by "English Tory peers".
I do not see how governments are to blame for what the press choose to do or not do.
Terrorism exist because of govt actions - although its a moot 'chicken and egg' point which came first. Newspapers and free speech are not the cause of terrorism.
France is a secular society and its govt have thus politically acted to reduce religious influence. 2 policemen are dead protecting this particular newspaper.
The response should be the rule of law. Anyone who wants to become as mindless as the terrorists (eg by promoting bonkers lies about rape in Scandinavia as a way of feeding hysteria) are just fools.