Sky News The Gunman in Sydney is apparently well known to Police and also local media. Channel 9 have confirmed that and stated they have been asked to keep the ID under wraps for now.
So looks like a lone nutter then....
The Islamist Standard was put up in the window. Whether it's one guy or not, he's clearly part of a broader movement.
You do talk nonsense.
Islamist standard? He's got the wrong flag. It's a Saudi one.
The Saudi flag is green, not black.
Indeed. The flag in question is effectively that, but on the wrong coloured background. Take your argument up with Frank Gardner.
Just as a stop traffic light is effectively a go traffic light, but the wrong colour.
Widespread sympathy among young Muslims in developed countries for radical Islamist groups. I haven't figured it all out, but when someone holds up a flag saying what cause they're in sympathy with, some things are pretty bloody obvious.
No, it's not bloody obvious until things have ended and an investigation is carried out, as we have seen time and time again.
I predict the person/persons responsible will be male, aged 18-35
What odds do you want to bet that I'm wrong?
"We still don't know who this man is, but images show a man in his 40s or 50s, which doesn't fit with the usual pattern of young and disaffected men who have gone off to Syria and Iraq,"
I recall the massacre in Norway when "everyone" "knew" it was "obviously" "Muslim".......
It is worth noticing the unequivocal condemnation from the various Australian Muslim groups, rather than the sort of mealy-mouthed half-disapproving triangulation bullshit that seems to be more fashionable here.
8:57pm: A coalition of Muslim groups issued a statement earlier this evening expressing their "utter shock and horror" at the scenes in Martin Place today.
"We reject any attempt to take the innocent life of any human being, or to instill fear and terror into their hearts," the statement, signed by 44 groups, says.
"Any such despicable act only serves to play into the agendas of those who seek to destroy the goodwill of the people of Australia and to further damage and ridicule the religion of Islam, and Australian Muslims throughout this country," it says.
Sky News The Gunman in Sydney is apparently well known to Police and also local media. Channel 9 have confirmed that and stated they have been asked to keep the ID under wraps for now.
So looks like a lone nutter then....
The Islamist Standard was put up in the window. Whether it's one guy or not, he's clearly part of a broader movement.
You do talk nonsense.
Islamist standard? He's got the wrong flag. It's a Saudi one.
The Saudi flag is green, not black.
Indeed. The flag in question is effectively that, but on the wrong coloured background. Take your argument up with Frank Gardner.
Just as a stop traffic light is effectively a go traffic light, but the wrong colour.
Maybe Isam should go for Basildon South. He'd be vastly better than the other three.
While that wouldn't be difficult - I'm sure Isam would be a much better candidate!
As long as he can stay off strong medication he's got a chance of doing it (surviving in place until the GE)
Alastair Campbell tweeted: Good morning @Nigel_Farage - just taken my medication, now off out to abuse anyone who looks, you know, a bit foreign, or camp
Shameful in view of what happened to the unfortunate Dr Kelly.
Nothing Farage has said or done has resulted in the death of another.
If only Ed Miliband could say the same. The policies he enacted as energy minister have made heating too expensive for old people, a number of whom have died as a result.
It was once observed that Martin McGuinness must be only the only education minister who killed children in his previous job. Miliband likewise must be the only energy minister there has ever been who killed elderly energy users by making energy too expensive for them.
I think Socrates is broadly correct. The Left, and Ed in particualr, are no friends to the basic notion of English national pride and will actively seek to supress the emergence of England as a political entity.
Of course. And you and Socrates get to decide what English national pride is, of course.
I think Socrates is broadly correct. The Left, and Ed in particualr, are no friends to the basic notion of English national pride and will actively seek to supress the emergence of England as a political entity.
Of course. And you and Socrates get to decide what English national pride is, of course.
I don't think too many English would take pride in sharing Socrate's views.
Why? Because they instinctively dislike English culture, from the flag-waving white van man to the church-attending Anglican to the middle class land-owner. Ed Miliband has been brought up in an anti-English household and now he's trying to take that philosophy into government.
Great stuff Socrates. Anyone who feels no affinity with your utterly inclusive exemplars of English culture can only dislike English culture.
Sky News The Gunman in Sydney is apparently well known to Police and also local media. Channel 9 have confirmed that and stated they have been asked to keep the ID under wraps for now.
So looks like a lone nutter then....
The Islamist Standard was put up in the window. Whether it's one guy or not, he's clearly part of a broader movement.
You do talk nonsense.
Islamist standard? He's got the wrong flag. It's a Saudi one.
The Saudi flag is green, not black.
Indeed. The flag in question is effectively that, but on the wrong coloured background. Take your argument up with Frank Gardner.
Just as a stop traffic light is effectively a go traffic light, but the wrong colour.
I recall the massacre in Norway when "everyone" "knew" it was "obviously" "Muslim".......
There are always people who "know what is going on" before the facts come out, and it's not as expected. Other incidents in recent years where the early speculation was wrong include the Boston bombings and the Washington Navy Yard shootings.
Mr. Observer, is it the feeling Miliband gets when he sees a white van?
Miliband has made an absolute fool of himself, as usual. But as someone who is English born and bred, but who is on the left, I do find Socrates's descriptions of English culture somewhat baffling, based as they are on very small minority activities.
I actually think that Socrates and Ed have the same view of what England is all about. And that both of them are spectacularly wrong.
“Today, I am announcing that the next Labour government will go further still: making it a criminal offence to undercut pay or conditions by exploiting migrant workers. We are serving notice on employers who bring workers here under duress or on false terms and pay them significantly lower wages, with worse terms and conditions. This new criminal offence will provide protection to everyone. It will help ensure that, when immigrants work here, they do not face exploitation themselves and rogue employers are stopped from undercutting the terms and conditions of everyone else.”
Working on the assumption that this is an accurate representation of his speech, he has a major issue in understanding the problem.
Where there is a rogue employer, another law or regulation is not the way to prevent them continuing as a rogue employer. To deal with the issue you deal with the rogue employer. It really is that simple. When you have dealt with the rogue employer all the issues he imagines require new laws vanish.
Are politicians really this stupid?
He is clearly peddling even more trade union inspired employment restrictions. This will mean fewer jobs for everyone.
Why? Because they instinctively dislike English culture, from the flag-waving white van man to the church-attending Anglican to the middle class land-owner. Ed Miliband has been brought up in an anti-English household and now he's trying to take that philosophy into government.
Great stuff Socrates. Anyone who feels no affinity with your utterly inclusive exemplars of English culture can only dislike English culture.
Where on Earth did you come to the conclusion that I was describing the entirety of English culture? Culture is like music - it's impossible to describe in its entirety. I was just giving examples of the breadth and depth of Labour's discomfort with it. Ultimately, no one has been able to contest my points in the long post earlier: there is a long-existing distaste for Englishness among large parts of the left, Ed Miliband was brought up in such a philosophy and buys into it deeply, and his policies reflect this distaste. His decision to not even talk about immigration in the election campaign is just the latest example.
Why? Because they instinctively dislike English culture, from the flag-waving white van man to the church-attending Anglican to the middle class land-owner. Ed Miliband has been brought up in an anti-English household and now he's trying to take that philosophy into government.
Great stuff Socrates. Anyone who feels no affinity with your utterly inclusive exemplars of English culture can only dislike English culture.
Socrates, have you ever thought that you sound just a teeny bit reactionary? I’m proud of being Britain, proud of at least some of our country’s achievments, but that doesn’t stop me wanting to see improvments. And by that I don’t mean harking back to some mythical Golden Age.
Oh, and I enjoy cricket and cheer for England. Wish I had more opportunities to do so!
TSE - I think i missed you last night so here's a re-post of what I said then:
TheScreamingEagles said: I hope you all followed me on backing Lewis Hamilton as SPOTY.
TSE - Many thanks for that profitable steer last night to back Lewis Hamilton to win SPOTY, based on a YouGov poll showing a good many more believed he would win rather than McIlroy. I've only just heard about my good fortune, having completely given up on my chances earlier this evening when the betting odds suggested that the Irishman was set to win with ease.
If I did stand in S Bas & E Thurrock do you think the Tories would insist on calling me Samuel to make me sound Jewish?
Are you suggesting that being Jewish might be problematic for the voters in that area?
Jesus. He is suggesting that the tories might think that being Jewish might be problematic for enough of the voters in that area, for it to be worth their while to make isam sound Jewish.
If you haven't posted off that Mensa application yet, save yourself the cost of the stamp.
The IllRideWithYou hashtag really does reflect well on Australia.
The Canadian response to the shooting at Parliament Hill was similarly restrained and united.
I was in Madrid during 7/7 and the aftermath.
The Spaniards were confused by the reaction of Londoners, a year earlier, Madrid had suffered their own bombings, and days later there massive peaceful protests condemning terrorism.
Whereas they saw the Brits continue on with normal, they couldn't comprehend it.
I think it is an Anglosphere thing and keep on remembering that we've blown up by a better class of bastard before.
Mehdi Hasan @mehdirhasan 9m9 minutes ago The more everyone talks about immigration, the more Ukip benefit as the issue is thrust/kept centre stage. Voters think 'Ukip have a point'.
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 8m8 minutes ago Greenwich, London @mehdirhasan The reason voters think that is because David Cameron and Ed Miliband both keep saying Ukip have got a point.
I'm, not sure quite what did for McIlroy in SPOTY ..... presumably his declaration that he would represent the ROI rather than GB in the Olympics and perhaps to a lesser extent his very public falling out with his girlfriend apparently, at least inpart, in furtherance of his career.
I'm, not sure quite what did for McIlroy in SPOTY ..... presumably his declaration that he would represent the ROI rather than GB in the Olympics and perhaps to a lesser extent his very public falling out with his girlfriend apparently, at least inpart, in furtherance of his career.
There are a lot of petrolheads. And Rory McIlroy is lower on charm than Lewis Hamilton.
TSE - I think i missed you last night so here's a re-post of what I said then:
TheScreamingEagles said: I hope you all followed me on backing Lewis Hamilton as SPOTY.
TSE - Many thanks for that profitable steer last night to back Lewis Hamilton to win SPOTY, based on a YouGov poll showing a good many more believed he would win rather than McIlroy. I've only just heard about my good fortune, having completely given up on my chances earlier this evening when the betting odds suggested that the Irishman was set to win with ease.
Huzzah.
My tip, stick some of your winnings on Felipe Massa and Valerias Bottas winning the F1 Championship.
They are currently 66/1 and 40/1
Williams did very well towards the end of the season.
I don't expect them to win, but I consider this a trading bet.
Why? Because they instinctively dislike English culture, from the flag-waving white van man to the church-attending Anglican to the middle class land-owner. Ed Miliband has been brought up in an anti-English household and now he's trying to take that philosophy into government.
Great stuff Socrates. Anyone who feels no affinity with your utterly inclusive exemplars of English culture can only dislike English culture.
Where on Earth did you come to the conclusion that I was describing the entirety of English culture? Culture is like music - it's impossible to describe in its entirety. I was just giving examples of the breadth and depth of Labour's discomfort with it. Ultimately, no one has been able to contest my points in the long post earlier: there is a long-existing distaste for Englishness among large parts of the left, Ed Miliband was brought up in such a philosophy and buys into it deeply, and his policies reflect this distaste.
There is absolutely no depth or breadth in your description. Church attending Anglicans, blokes who drive white vans and wave England flags, and landowners are very small minorities in England.
I absolutely contest your assertion. I believe there may be widespread distaste on the left for the Englishness you talk about and approve of - I certainly find it pretty narrow, unimaginative and conservative - but you do not own Englishness and do not get to define what it means.
My England is one of non-conformism, of solidarity, of standing up for the underdog and of questioning authority. England is the country that spawned the chartists, the Luddites, and the trade union and co-operative movements. The English fought enclosure, volunteered for the International Brigades. They stood against Hitler and then voted out Churchill. They treasure socialised medicine and believe the rich should pay more taxes.
My England is just as legitimate as yours and it is a place where millions of people on the left feel very comfortable.
If I did stand in S Bas & E Thurrock do you think the Tories would insist on calling me Samuel to make me sound Jewish?
Are you suggesting that being Jewish might be problematic for the voters in that area?
Criikey was just about to answer one thing and what you have said in as completely changed!
No I don't think it would be a problem at all, I have never heard any anti Semitic comments round here, or anywhere else I've been to be honest
Sorry, then it's puzzling as to why you think the Tories would want to call you 'Samuel'.
I don’t recall that when Stanley Hollowy’s Sam was told to "pick up thy musket” there was any suggestion that he was anything but dyed in the cotton Lancastrian. (I’d say dyed in the wool, but that’d be t’other side of t’ Pennines.)
Is this good or bad for Ukip? Surely having more males voters who are more likely to vote - and less likely to change their mind (snigger) - means their share of the vote is less likely to change.
Fair enough. It does feel like OGH's clutching at straws though.
Also is the uncertainty in one direction? That is, could their vote share actually be higher than the polls?
OGH seems remarkably unbiased in his reporting despite his open acknowledgement of the way he votes. Since this is a betting website, it would not be advisable to wear orange, blue, green, red or purple tinted glasses since you would end up losing money. The uncertainty could be in either direction, the question is do you want to bet on it being higher?
I'm sure when it comes to betting OGH very much leaves emotion at the door. His articles, on the other hand, continually claim that Ukip's won't do that well.
If he genuinely believes that he should put his money where is mouth is and sell Ukip on the exchange.
Personally I don't expect Ukip to do that well - certainly not in terms of seats - but Ukip won't be going away after the election, that I am certain of.
I'd be amazed if UKIP polled above 13% and won more than 5 seats, but I'd expect the party to continue its advance after the next election. By 2020, i'd expect them to be well into four figures, in terms of council seats, and have seats in the Welsh and London Assemblies.
After 2015 we may have a Labour party led by someone other than Ed. Or we may have the LibDems led by someone other than Nick. In either case I would expect UKIP to drop back below 5%. However if the coalition continues and Ed stays in place (or Labour elect someone equally uninspiring) then UKIP could flourish. That's unless their internal feuds blow them apart, as quite often happens on the right.
I can't see two thirds of UKIP's support vanishing because of leadership changes (unless Labour or Lib Dems were to adopt UKIP's policies, which is very unlikely.)
If the Conservatives shifted right and campaigned to leave the EU, then I could see UKIP's support falling away.
The NOTA would have somewhere more moderate to go. UKIP's support isn't predominantly due to their policies.
Most people who vote UKIP support leaving the EU and curbs on immigration. They're not primarily motivated by dislike of Milliband or Clegg.
I'm, not sure quite what did for McIlroy in SPOTY ..... presumably his declaration that he would represent the ROI rather than GB in the Olympics and perhaps to a lesser extent his very public falling out with his girlfriend apparently, at least inpart, in furtherance of his career.
Isn't it that there are more Formula One fans than golf fans? Nigel Mansall won the award one year for coming second, if I remember correctly.
Why? Because they instinctively dislike English culture, from the flag-waving white van man to the church-attending Anglican to the middle class land-owner. Ed Miliband has been brought up in an anti-English household and now he's trying to take that philosophy into government.
Great stuff Socrates. Anyone who feels no affinity with your utterly inclusive exemplars of English culture can only dislike English culture.
Where on Earth did you come to the conclusion that I was describing the entirety of English culture? Culture is like music - it's impossible to describe in its entirety. I was just giving examples of the breadth and depth of Labour's discomfort with it. Ultimately, no one has been able to contest my points in the long post earlier: there is a long-existing distaste for Englishness among large parts of the left, Ed Miliband was brought up in such a philosophy and buys into it deeply, and his policies reflect this distaste.
There is absolutely no depth or breadth in your description. Church attending Anglicans, blokes who drive white vans and wave England flags, and landowners are very small minorities in England.
I absolutely contest your assertion. I believe there may be widespread distaste on the left for the Englishness you talk about and approve of - I certainly find it pretty narrow, unimaginative and conservative - but you do not own Englishness and do not get to define what it means.
My England is one of non-conformism, of solidarity, of standing up for the underdog and of questioning authority. England is the country that spawned the chartists, the Luddites, and the trade union and co-operative movements. The English fought enclosure, volunteered for the International Brigades. They stood against Hitler and then voted out Churchill. They treasure socialised medicine and believe the rich should pay more taxes.
My England is just as legitimate as yours and it is a place where millions of people on the left feel very comfortable.
FFS on Lewis Hamilton winning SPOTY. All the other 9 contenders were more worhy.
Perhaps he can come home and pay some UK tax?
Good to see the true nature of UKIP being exposed. Hilarious to see how easily the facade crumbles under scrutiny and the paranoid wailing from its keyboard warriors that follows.
Are UKIP racist? Yes. Are they homophobic? Yes. Misogynist? Absolutely.
Ultimately are UKIP unfit to hold office? Of course.
If I did stand in S Bas & E Thurrock do you think the Tories would insist on calling me Samuel to make me sound Jewish?
Are you suggesting that being Jewish might be problematic for the voters in that area?
Criikey was just about to answer one thing and what you have said in as completely changed!
No I don't think it would be a problem at all, I have never heard any anti Semitic comments round here, or anywhere else I've been to be honest
Sorry, then it's puzzling as to why you think the Tories would want to call you 'Samuel'.
I don’t recall that when Stanley Hollowy’s Sam was told to "pick up thy musket” there was any suggestion that he was anything but dyed in the cotton Lancastrian. (I’d say dyed in the wool, but that’d be t’other side of t’ Pennines.)
It was the Duke of Wellington ultimately telling him to pick his musket up, so somewhen between 1790 and 1828. But he was never Samuel, the monologue is called "Sam Small" and that is how he is referred to throughout.
'Alright Duke,' said Old Sam, 'just for thee I'll oblige, And to show thee I meant no offence', So Sam picked it up, 'Gradely, lad' said the Duke, 'Right-o boys... let battle commence.'
I'm, not sure quite what did for McIlroy in SPOTY ..... presumably his declaration that he would represent the ROI rather than GB in the Olympics and perhaps to a lesser extent his very public falling out with his girlfriend apparently, at least inpart, in furtherance of his career.
F1 chaps have done badly in SPOTY, Jensen didn't win it in 2009, Nigel Mansell didn't win it when he was world champ in 1992 (though that was in an Olympic year)
I think it is those factors you mention plus the following
1) Lewis Hamilton seems a nice chap, with a nice family background, Lewis also split up with his girlfriend a couple of times because of their careers but are back together
2) Most of Rory Mac's achievements this year, weren't shown live on terrestrial TV, unlike Hamilton's achievements
3) Hamilton's achievement was in the last month, so more likely to be fresh in the memory
If I did stand in S Bas & E Thurrock do you think the Tories would insist on calling me Samuel to make me sound Jewish?
Are you suggesting that being Jewish might be problematic for the voters in that area?
Criikey was just about to answer one thing and what you have said in as completely changed!
No I don't think it would be a problem at all, I have never heard any anti Semitic comments round here, or anywhere else I've been to be honest
Sorry, then it's puzzling as to why you think the Tories would want to call you 'Samuel'.
I don’t recall that when Stanley Hollowy’s Sam was told to "pick up thy musket” there was any suggestion that he was anything but dyed in the cotton Lancastrian. (I’d say dyed in the wool, but that’d be t’other side of t’ Pennines.)
It was the Duke of Wellington ultimately telling him to pick his musket up, so somewhen between 1790 and 1828. But he was never Samuel, the monologue is called "Sam Small" and that is how he is referred to throughout.
'Alright Duke,' said Old Sam, 'just for thee I'll oblige, And to show thee I meant no offence', So Sam picked it up, 'Gradely, lad' said the Duke, 'Right-o boys... let battle commence.'
"It occurred on the evening before Waterloo” to be precise.
But you think that while our colleague might be concerned at being addressed as Samuel, there be no problem if he were referred to as Sam?
On the basis that there’d be implications in the name Rebecca but not in Becky?
I'm, not sure quite what did for McIlroy in SPOTY ..... presumably his declaration that he would represent the ROI rather than GB in the Olympics and perhaps to a lesser extent his very public falling out with his girlfriend apparently, at least inpart, in furtherance of his career.
Isn't it that there are more Formula One fans than golf fans? Nigel Mansall won the award one year for coming second, if I remember correctly.
You might be referring to 1986. I remember that well (I was a massive Nige fan as a teenager), and it was a journey culminating in the following famous clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIX-JmmmonY
A rather good bit of driving there by our Nige.
I think that also counts for this year and Hamilton: it's been a journey. He's outshone his competitors, but the result was unclear to the last moment. As well as the highs, there were lows such as the engine fire at Hungary. It was a story that played out in millions of homes in the UK over eight months.
FFS on Lewis Hamilton winning SPOTY. All the other 9 contenders were more worhy.
Perhaps he can come home and pay some UK tax?
Good to see the true nature of UKIP being exposed. Hilarious to see how easily the facade crumbles under scrutiny and the paranoid wailing from its keyboard warriors that follows.
Are UKIP racist? Yes. Are they homophobic? Yes. Misogynist? Absolutely.
Ultimately are UKIP unfit to hold office? Of course.
Would you say that UKIP are trying to "make the white folks angry"; or accusing white people of "playing divide and rule", perhaps; or having a candidate convicted for branding a gay opponent in an election as a paedophile?
Why? Because they instinctively dislike English culture, from the flag-waving white van man to the church-attending Anglican to the middle class land-owner. Ed Miliband has been brought up in an anti-English household and now he's trying to take that philosophy into government.
Great stuff Socrates. Anyone who feels no affinity with your utterly inclusive exemplars of English culture can only dislike English culture.
Where on Earth did you come to the conclusion that I was describing the entirety of English culture? Culture is like music - it's impossible to describe in its entirety. I was just giving examples of the breadth and depth of Labour's discomfort with it. Ultimately, no one has been able to contest my points in the long post earlier: there is a long-existing distaste for Englishness among large parts of the left, Ed Miliband was brought up in such a philosophy and buys into it deeply, and his policies reflect this distaste.
There is absolutely no depth or breadth in your description. Church attending Anglicans, blokes who drive white vans and wave England flags, and landowners are very small minorities in England.
I absolutely contest your assertion. I believe there may be widespread distaste on the left for the Englishness you talk about and approve of - I certainly find it pretty narrow, unimaginative and conservative - but you do not own Englishness and do not get to define what it means.
My England is one of non-conformism, of solidarity, of standing up for the underdog and of questioning authority. England is the country that spawned the chartists, the Luddites, and the trade union and co-operative movements. The English fought enclosure, volunteered for the International Brigades. They stood against Hitler and then voted out Churchill. They treasure socialised medicine and believe the rich should pay more taxes.
My England is just as legitimate as yours and it is a place where millions of people on the left feel very comfortable.
I’ll vote for that.
And do.
Am I allowed to add my vote, metaphorical as it must be? I'm a long-standing fan of Cobbett ...
There is absolutely no depth or breadth in your description. Church attending Anglicans, blokes who drive white vans and wave England flags, and landowners are very small minorities in England.
I absolutely contest your assertion. I believe there may be widespread distaste on the left for the Englishness you talk about and approve of - I certainly find it pretty narrow, unimaginative and conservative - but you do not own Englishness and do not get to define what it means.
My England is one of non-conformism, of solidarity, of standing up for the underdog and of questioning authority. England is the country that spawned the chartists, the Luddites, and the trade union and co-operative movements. The English fought enclosure, volunteered for the International Brigades. They stood against Hitler and then voted out Churchill. They treasure socialised medicine and believe the rich should pay more taxes.
My England is just as legitimate as yours and it is a place where millions of people on the left feel very comfortable.
You think there's no breadth in cultural space between middle-class landowners and flag-waving white van men? You claim mentioning millions of church attending Anglicans as an example of Englishness is illegitimate because they're "very small minorities", while then turning round and using those few hundred volunteering in the Spanish Civil War as "the English" doing it? Is the distaste shown by George Monbiot only about my supposed "type" of Englishness when he criticises "England" outright and says it's self-destructive for Scotland to be joined with it? Is it a "narrow" part of England that gets second rate status in the union when Miliband refuses to have an English parliament or English votes for English laws? Is it a "very small minority" of English people that will be discriminated against by Miliband's race-preference system, or the vast, vast majority?
The problem is you utterly mischaracterise my argument, and then go on a rant against something I haven't said. I have praised non-conformism, republicanism and Chartism, while criticising a powerful executive authority on this very site. You're arguing against a strawman. George Orwell was hardly a narrow, unimaginative conservative but even he could recognise how many of the left-wing intelligentsia hated their own country, so don't act like it's something right-wingers have made up.
Given the SPOTY reminder of the size of motorist electorate, the fall in fuel prices leading up to the general election is going to mean motorists have increased spending power and will be feeing happier with the government.
This will help the Conservatives and perhaps some Liberals get re-elected.
Man asks woman for sex may have been a scandal in the late Victorian age, but I suspect not in this age.
On the other hand its UKIP and kippers who decry the modern age. They wish we were back in the1950's where women were either Lady Docker or wore curlers and knew their place.
Man asks woman for sex may have been a scandal in the late Victorian age, but I suspect not in this age.
On the other hand its UKIP and kippers who decry the modern age. They wish we were back in the1950's where women were either Lady Docker or wore curlers and knew their place.
Even in the 1950's sexual intercourse took place between men and women, shocking as this may seem.
The problem with this bet is that he has to succeed Clegg. Zadrozny might be leader one day but Clegg would have to stay for another five years for him to be in with any chance of being well known to the membership
UKIP need a clear message to go out to the working class: Labour will not listen to your concerns on immigration, and it's their official strategy to change the subject if you bring it up.
Man asks woman for sex may have been a scandal in the late Victorian age, but I suspect not in this age.
On the other hand its UKIP and kippers who decry the modern age. They wish we were back in the1950's where women were either Lady Docker or wore curlers and knew their place.
Even in the 1950's sexual intercourse took place between men and women, shocking as this may seem.
Not in return for a package holiday. They had not been invented. At least it was usually only Guards officers who actually offered descrete accomodation in return for favours.
Man asks woman for sex may have been a scandal in the late Victorian age, but I suspect not in this age.
On the other hand its UKIP and kippers who decry the modern age. They wish we were back in the1950's where women were either Lady Docker or wore curlers and knew their place.
Even in the 1950's sexual intercourse took place between men and women, shocking as this may seem.
Anyone feel like caricaturing the Tories or Labour for a bit, I am getting bored with Flightpath's endless caricatures of kippers, although I admit he has a talent for generalising the comments and misdemeanours of one of two people to a party of 20,000 members, taking votes from a fifth of the population.
Man asks woman for sex may have been a scandal in the late Victorian age, but I suspect not in this age.
On the other hand its UKIP and kippers who decry the modern age. They wish we were back in the1950's where women were either Lady Docker or wore curlers and knew their place.
Even in the 1950's sexual intercourse took place between men and women, shocking as this may seem.
Not in return for a package holiday. They had not been invented. At least it was usually only Guards officers who actually offered descrete accomodation in return for favours.
Given the SPOTY reminder of the size of motorist electorate, the fall in fuel prices leading up to the general election is going to mean motorists have increased spending power and will be feeing happier with the government.
This will help the Conservatives and perhaps some Liberals get re-elected.
The fall in oil prices will have a wider economic effect than that. Balance of payments. Inflation. Fuel is a small component of what comes out of a barrel of oil.
Man asks woman for sex may have been a scandal in the late Victorian age, but I suspect not in this age.
On the other hand its UKIP and kippers who decry the modern age. They wish we were back in the1950's where women were either Lady Docker or wore curlers and knew their place.
Even in the 1950's sexual intercourse took place between men and women, shocking as this may seem.
Not quite as easily, at least in my circle, as it appears to do in similar circles now.
There is absolutely no depth or breadth in your description. Church attending Anglicans, blokes who drive white vans and wave England flags, and landowners are very small minorities in England.
I absolutely contest your assertion. I believe there may be widespread distaste on the left for the Englishness you talk about and approve of - I certainly find it pretty narrow, unimaginative and conservative - but you do not own Englishness and do not get to define what it means.
My England is one of non-conformism, of solidarity, of standing up for the underdog and of questioning authority. England is the country that spawned the chartists, the Luddites, and the trade union and co-operative movements. The English fought enclosure, volunteered for the International Brigades. They stood against Hitler and then voted out Churchill. They treasure socialised medicine and believe the rich should pay more taxes.
My England is just as legitimate as yours and it is a place where millions of people on the left feel very comfortable.
You think there's no breadth in cultural space between middle-class landowners and flag-waving white van men? You claim mentioning millions of church attending Anglicans as an example of Englishness is illegitimate because they're "very small minorities", while then turning round and using those few hundred volunteering in the Spanish Civil War as "the English" doing it? Is the distaste shown by George Monbiot only about my supposed "type" of Englishness when he criticises "England" outright and says it's self-destructive for Scotland to be joined with it? Is it a "narrow" part of England that gets second rate status in the union when Miliband refuses to have an English parliament or English votes for English laws? Is it a "very small minority" of English people that will be discriminated against by Miliband's race-preference system, or the vast, vast majority?
The problem is you utterly mischaracterise my argument, and then go on a rant against something I haven't said. I have praised non-conformism, republicanism and Chartism, while criticising a powerful executive authority on this very site. You're arguing against a strawman. George Orwell was hardly a narrow, unimaginative conservative but even he could recognise how many of the left-wing intelligentsia hated their own country, so don't act like it's something right-wingers have made up.
You have made it up Socrates. Disagreeing with you does not mean someone is anti-English. It means they disagree with you. Some people hate this country. George Monbiot may well be one of them. But he is not "the left". Orwell was on "the left" as are the millions who vote for left wing parties. I prefer to see them as more representative than a few self-flagellating intellectuals. If you do not, that is up to you.
Man asks woman for sex may have been a scandal in the late Victorian age, but I suspect not in this age.
On the other hand its UKIP and kippers who decry the modern age. They wish we were back in the1950's where women were either Lady Docker or wore curlers and knew their place.
Even in the 1950's sexual intercourse took place between men and women, shocking as this may seem.
Anyone feel like caricaturing the Tories or Labour for a bit, I am getting bored with Flightpath's endless caricatures of kippers, although I admit he has a talent for generalising the comments and misdemeanours of one of two people to a party of 20,000 members, taking votes from a fifth of the population.
40,000+ members now. Personally, I find the whole business of sharing intimate details of one's life on social media pretty tasteless, but others see it differently.
SPOTY - my theory, based upon the fact that it is decided by the viewers:
Golf is a tiresome game for boring old farts in shocking plus-fours. A way to ruin a good walk. It is the Nigel Farage of sporting activity and as cool as your dad's jumper.
F1 is a bit more interesting, noisy, fun, glamorous, sexy, in-yer-face and potentially dangerous.
Thus the vote was something akin to knitting vs gladiatorial combat. And Spartacus won.
Does the left hate England? I just tend to think the English are a rather unpatriotic bunch who aren't particularly fond of themselves. I don't know why and for us celts it does have its advantages. They don't lord it over us in the way an nation with a clearer identity might. This does cause problems though and I think the apathy of the left, who let's face it tend to be less concerned with identity than the right, can be problematic. George Monbiot's negativity doesn't bode well for a left that wants to change England. The English never really embraced the revolutionary left in the 20th century in the way that most other countries did. Perhaps that tends to frustrate left wing activists. Of course you could also point out to them that the English didn't embrace fascism either, but that gets forgotten. The war time experience seemed to bring bout a more unified country in which old class divisions crumbled and a sense of solidarity emerged. Sadly we seem to be going backwards on that front and I think the left resents that. Their best hope is that the modern world produces such inequalities and benefits most a small majority so the masses might reunite with each other. Struggling to at the moment though. Man United fans singing chanting 'you'll never get a job' at their Liverpool rivals suggests the working class don't know which side their bread is buttered.
You have made it up Socrates. Disagreeing with you does not mean someone is anti-English. It means they disagree with you. Some people hate this country. George Monbiot may well be one of them. But he is not "the left". Orwell was on "the left" as are the millions who vote for left wing parties. I prefer to see them as more representative than a few self-flagellating intellectuals. If you do not, that is up to you.
The problem is the current leader of the opposition and a fair few of his closest colleagues are those same self-flagellating intellectuals.
FFS on Lewis Hamilton winning SPOTY. All the other 9 contenders were more worhy.
Perhaps he can come home and pay some UK tax?
Good to see the true nature of UKIP being exposed. Hilarious to see how easily the facade crumbles under scrutiny and the paranoid wailing from its keyboard warriors that follows.
Are UKIP racist? Yes. Are they homophobic? Yes. Misogynist? Absolutely.
Ultimately are UKIP unfit to hold office? Of course.
Would you say that UKIP are trying to "make the white folks angry"; or accusing white people of "playing divide and rule", perhaps; or having a candidate convicted for branding a gay opponent in an election as a paedophile?
Both Labour and UKIP are keen to hoover up that section of the vote.
You have made it up Socrates. Disagreeing with you does not mean someone is anti-English. It means they disagree with you. Some people hate this country. George Monbiot may well be one of them. But he is not "the left". Orwell was on "the left" as are the millions who vote for left wing parties. I prefer to see them as more representative than a few self-flagellating intellectuals. If you do not, that is up to you.
The problem is the current leader of the opposition and a fair few of his closest colleagues are those same self-flagellating intellectuals.
I see no evidence of that. Again, the right does not get to decide what is or is not Englishness.
OT If you've a Kindle or similar - and love Hugo Rifkind's My Week satire, it's just £1.99 from BiteBack at the mo. I've been chortling over some great ones so far, it's like stepping back in time.
Given the SPOTY reminder of the size of motorist electorate, the fall in fuel prices leading up to the general election is going to mean motorists have increased spending power and will be feeing happier with the government.
This will help the Conservatives and perhaps some Liberals get re-elected.
The fall in oil prices will have a wider economic effect than that. Balance of payments. Inflation. Fuel is a small component of what comes out of a barrel of oil.
It's vital that Labour make sure the coalition don't get any credit for it. They should be publicising the fortuitousness of the oil price fall as much as they can. Given their current ineptness I wouldn't bet on it.
Sadly we seem to be going backwards on that front and I think the left resents that. Their best hope is that the modern world produces such inequalities and benefits most a small majority so the masses might reunite with each other. Struggling to at the moment though. Man United fans singing chanting 'you'll never get a job' at their Liverpool rivals suggests the working class don't know which side their bread is buttered.
At least in the short term the masses are going to be in for a rough ride. This country has shocking bad productivity in most "normal" jobs, and the global market is not going to be prepared to pay the sort of salaries they want much longer. That may well normalise in a generation or so, but for the next 20-30 years low skilled jobs are heading out the country. Putting the minimum wage up to say £8 will find a lot of employers deciding the work they get done per hour isn't worth £8 compared to the amount of work they could get done abroad for the same amount of money.
There are a certain number of new high skill jobs being created, but they require well educated people, almost entirely graduates, and by and large the approach of the left currently is to try and make education fair by removing educational "advantage", rather than giving it to everyone. The UK dropped from about 4th in the world education ranking 30 years ago, to about 30th now, and almost all the countries above us are Asian or Far Eastern countries.
"The Left" needs to stop thinking it terms of raising taxes and spending money, the global economy won't support it, raise the taxes much more than they are now and skills and jobs will head overseas, the left badly needs some new thinking and new solutions, not wheeling out the same tired old nostrums that worked for their fathers.
Of course you could also point out to them that the English didn't embrace fascism either, but that gets forgotten. .
Only two European countries wholly embraced Fascism more or less of their own free will, so hardly exceptional. Of course many adopted some version of it once occupied. As ever, the several hundred square miles of the Channel are a much more relevant explanation of 'English' serenity than some innate trait of national character.
Of course you could also point out to them that the English didn't embrace fascism either, but that gets forgotten. .
Only two European countries wholly embraced Fascism more or less of their own free will, so hardly exceptional. Of course many adopted some version of it once occupied. As ever, the several hundred square miles of the Channel are a much more relevant explanation of 'English' serenity than some innate trait of national character.
plenty sympathisers and if Adolf had got across he would not have been short of recruits.
Of course you could also point out to them that the English didn't embrace fascism either, but that gets forgotten. .
Only two European countries wholly embraced Fascism more or less of their own free will, so hardly exceptional. Of course many adopted some version of it once occupied. As ever, the several hundred square miles of the Channel are a much more relevant explanation of 'English' serenity than some innate trait of national character.
There was quite considerable support for Fascism in this country in the 1930's, by no means all of it crackpot.
Large parts of France supported the Germans throughout the war, and fascist tendency remain a strong factor in French Political life in many areas, not just around Vichy.
Comments
It was once observed that Martin McGuinness must be only the only education minister who killed children in his previous job. Miliband likewise must be the only energy minister there has ever been who killed elderly energy users by making energy too expensive for them.
Farage is in that respect pretty clean.
UKIP candidate offers to pay for Facebook friend's holiday 'in exchange for sex'
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/ukip-candidate-offers-pay-facebook-4808262
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B444SkbCUAEcXgp.jpg
McBride isn't amused... or maybe he is
twitter.com/DPMcBride/status/544429481747050496
twitter.com/DPMcBride/status/544429505134481408
Great stuff Socrates. Anyone who feels no affinity with your utterly inclusive exemplars of English culture can only dislike English culture.
Who will be the first Kipper to squeal "Crosby !! " ?
I actually think that Socrates and Ed have the same view of what England is all about. And that both of them are spectacularly wrong.
No I don't think it would be a problem at all, I have never heard any anti Semitic comments round here, or anywhere else I've been to be honest
Oh, and I enjoy cricket and cheer for England. Wish I had more opportunities to do so!
TheScreamingEagles said:
I hope you all followed me on backing Lewis Hamilton as SPOTY.
TSE - Many thanks for that profitable steer last night to back Lewis Hamilton to win SPOTY, based on a YouGov poll showing a good many more believed he would win rather than McIlroy.
I've only just heard about my good fortune, having completely given up on my chances earlier this evening when the betting odds suggested that the Irishman was set to win with ease.
If you haven't posted off that Mensa application yet, save yourself the cost of the stamp.
http://order-order.com/2014/12/15/mystery-of-who-taped-ukip-race-row-phone-call/
The Spaniards were confused by the reaction of Londoners, a year earlier, Madrid had suffered their own bombings, and days later there massive peaceful protests condemning terrorism.
Whereas they saw the Brits continue on with normal, they couldn't comprehend it.
I think it is an Anglosphere thing and keep on remembering that we've blown up by a better class of bastard before.
The more everyone talks about immigration, the more Ukip benefit as the issue is thrust/kept centre stage. Voters think 'Ukip have a point'.
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 8m8 minutes ago Greenwich, London
@mehdirhasan The reason voters think that is because David Cameron and Ed Miliband both keep saying Ukip have got a point.
John Rentoul @JohnRentoul 2m2 minutes ago
@DPJHodges @mehdirhasan That's because UKIP has got a point.
My tip, stick some of your winnings on Felipe Massa and Valerias Bottas winning the F1 Championship.
They are currently 66/1 and 40/1
Williams did very well towards the end of the season.
I don't expect them to win, but I consider this a trading bet.
I absolutely contest your assertion. I believe there may be widespread distaste on the left for the Englishness you talk about and approve of - I certainly find it pretty narrow, unimaginative and conservative - but you do not own Englishness and do not get to define what it means.
My England is one of non-conformism, of solidarity, of standing up for the underdog and of questioning authority. England is the country that spawned the chartists, the Luddites, and the trade union and co-operative movements. The English fought enclosure, volunteered for the International Brigades. They stood against Hitler and then voted out Churchill. They treasure socialised medicine and believe the rich should pay more taxes.
My England is just as legitimate as yours and it is a place where millions of people on the left feel very comfortable.
And do.
FFS on Lewis Hamilton winning SPOTY. All the other 9 contenders were more worhy.
Perhaps he can come home and pay some UK tax?
Good to see the true nature of UKIP being exposed. Hilarious to see how easily the facade crumbles under scrutiny and the paranoid wailing from its keyboard warriors that follows.
Are UKIP racist? Yes. Are they homophobic? Yes. Misogynist? Absolutely.
Ultimately are UKIP unfit to hold office? Of course.
'Alright Duke,' said Old Sam, 'just for thee I'll oblige,
And to show thee I meant no offence',
So Sam picked it up, 'Gradely, lad' said the Duke,
'Right-o boys... let battle commence.'
I do expect Williams to be the closest rivals, most of the time, to Mercedes. They also have better reliability.
I think it is those factors you mention plus the following
1) Lewis Hamilton seems a nice chap, with a nice family background, Lewis also split up with his girlfriend a couple of times because of their careers but are back together
2) Most of Rory Mac's achievements this year, weren't shown live on terrestrial TV, unlike Hamilton's achievements
3) Hamilton's achievement was in the last month, so more likely to be fresh in the memory
Edited extra bit: also, with whom are those Williams' odds available? They're about 2-3x as long as Ladbrokes or Betfair.
But you think that while our colleague might be concerned at being addressed as Samuel, there be no problem if he were referred to as Sam?
On the basis that there’d be implications in the name Rebecca but not in Becky?
And you can back Lewis to be SPOTY next year at 6/1
http://www.oddschecker.com/awards/sports-personality-of-the-year/winner
Massa is at 66/1 at the same bookies.
http://www.oddschecker.com/motorsport/formula-one/drivers-championship
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIX-JmmmonY
A rather good bit of driving there by our Nige.
I think that also counts for this year and Hamilton: it's been a journey. He's outshone his competitors, but the result was unclear to the last moment. As well as the highs, there were lows such as the engine fire at Hungary. It was a story that played out in millions of homes in the UK over eight months.
He's a worthy winner in my book.
PS why do quotes sometimes appear more than once - so I have to edit them if notice in time?
The problem is you utterly mischaracterise my argument, and then go on a rant against something I haven't said. I have praised non-conformism, republicanism and Chartism, while criticising a powerful executive authority on this very site. You're arguing against a strawman. George Orwell was hardly a narrow, unimaginative conservative but even he could recognise how many of the left-wing intelligentsia hated their own country, so don't act like it's something right-wingers have made up.
http://politicalbookie.com/2014/12/15/the-501-unknown-who-might-be-the-next-liberal-democrat-leader/
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/caroline-wozniackis-dig-at-rory-mcilroy-i-can-wear-high-heels-again-30443423.html
This will help the Conservatives and perhaps some Liberals get re-elected.
Don't go with Stan James, they close your account very quickly.
At least it was usually only Guards officers who actually offered descrete accomodation in return for favours.
Golf is a tiresome game for boring old farts in shocking plus-fours. A way to ruin a good walk. It is the Nigel Farage of sporting activity and as cool as your dad's jumper.
F1 is a bit more interesting, noisy, fun, glamorous, sexy, in-yer-face and potentially dangerous.
Thus the vote was something akin to knitting vs gladiatorial combat. And Spartacus won.
There are a certain number of new high skill jobs being created, but they require well educated people, almost entirely graduates, and by and large the approach of the left currently is to try and make education fair by removing educational "advantage", rather than giving it to everyone. The UK dropped from about 4th in the world education ranking 30 years ago, to about 30th now, and almost all the countries above us are Asian or Far Eastern countries.
"The Left" needs to stop thinking it terms of raising taxes and spending money, the global economy won't support it, raise the taxes much more than they are now and skills and jobs will head overseas, the left badly needs some new thinking and new solutions, not wheeling out the same tired old nostrums that worked for their fathers.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/544464914522578946
Seems the 'undecided audience' may be about as neutral as a Question Time audience.
Large parts of France supported the Germans throughout the war, and fascist tendency remain a strong factor in French Political life in many areas, not just around Vichy.