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  • Socrates said:



    Keith Vaz is a numpty. If a job is paid less than £30k a year (and I think he's got his numbers wrong on that anyway) you can definitely train someone up in the UK to do it.

    Not following the logic. You say that anything paid less than £30K is definitely easy to learn?

    Anecdotally, in the specific case, I talked last year to an Asian restaurant manager who said he'd made a deliberate attempt to recruit non-Asian cooks to save the hassle of getting visas - he only asked that they should have general cooking experience, and offered to train them in Asian food - but got only two applicants, who gave up after a week and a fortnight respectively. "They just found it outside their comfort zone," he said.
    The restaurant owner is obviously not paying his cooks enough money. That, or the state pays too much to people who don't work. Or perhaps the cooks took better jobs elsewhere. And if the owner can only make it work by paying peanuts then he doesn't have viable business.

    The same applies to farmers who rely on cheap imported labour to pick crops. All it shows is that the price of strawberries is too low. Put wages up, locals will do the work, charge a bit more in the shops. Sorted. If the farmer can't sell at the higher price he should use his land for something else.
  • What were the two or three most important issues in deciding on how you voted?

    57% of no voters, it was the pound

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Lord-Ashcroft-Polls-Referendum-day-poll-summary-1409191.pdf

    I'd forgotten quite how dishonest the Nats were - the second biggest reason for voting 'Yes' was the (Scottish run, Scottish controlled) NHS..... which got an extra £125 million today from Osborne......

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30297932
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Tonights YG LAB 314 CON 287 LD 18

    EICIPM
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    What are we counting as "proper" crossover? A certain number of consecutive Tory leads in a row? A lead in Sunil's ELBOW? :)
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Tonights YG LAB 314 CON 287 LD 18

    EICIPM

    According to Peter Kellner, a Tory lead would mean Tory most seats.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    All the left leaning media are focusing on the "massive" cuts programmed in by George. I kinda of wonder if he doesn't mind that. I mean we have had 4 years of those same voices telling us the world will end due to cuts and it hasn't happened. The boy that cried wolf and all that. Also, the question then becomes, well what would Labour do, given they say they will basically follow general George's plans on borrowing.

    I suspect a Miliband Govt would disappoint supporters unprepared for the reality that bankers and mansions cannot fill the ( still huge) deficit and notwithstanding some further tax rises serious cuts would still follow. Voyez Hollande mes amis.....
  • I'm on my mobile, and I can't zoom properly to view, but I reckon table 5 onwards will give a rough guide to Mr Divvie's question

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/LORD-ASHCROFT-POLLS-Post-referendum-poll-tables-Sept-2014.pdf
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456

    Tonights YG LAB 314 CON 287 LD 18

    EICIPM

    not if the snp take 40 seats from labour in scotland
  • What were the two or three most important issues in deciding on how you voted?

    57% of no voters, it was the pound

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Lord-Ashcroft-Polls-Referendum-day-poll-summary-1409191.pdf

    How many of them were among the 62% that were always going to vote no?
    Why did the others decide to vote no? Was it Salmonds smug visage? The unconvincing economics? The lack of a real defence policy? Or the lack of a viable currency?

    Personally, I think the currency was critical, but possibly you are right and the Scottish public saw through another part of Salmonds bluff and bluster.
    Your beer seems a little spittle flecked, if not tear diluted.

    You were one of the SNP imploders and 60/40ers, weren't you?
  • Danny565 said:

    What are we counting as "proper" crossover? A certain number of consecutive Tory leads in a row? A lead in Sunil's ELBOW? :)

    My own guide prior to the first crossover was Tory leads with two different phone pollsters.

    3 out of the 4 phone pollsters have shown Tory leads this year.
  • MikeL said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories take one-point lead, Lib Dems fall to fifth: CON 32%, LAB 31%, LD 6%, UKIP 17%, GRN 7%

    A handy starting point for tomorrow... will we see a bigger Tory lead than the odd 1% ones we've been seeing more and more....

    Will Bobby Sol be back up front on Saturday...

    Will Chelsea complete their usual double over Spurs in a few short weeks.

    At least one is a cert.
    If the Tories had been able to hold on to their own loyalist voter base, they'd be heading for a clear victory next year. Sadly, they preferred to insult and ignore them instead.

    Right, heading to bed now too. Goodnight.
  • AndyJS said:
    Has SeanT stopped doing his nut on twitter about this yet. Holed up in a 6* Oz resort and was losing his mind over not being able to watch UK made spanking videos (only the foreign mucky stuff).
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    What are we counting as "proper" crossover? A certain number of consecutive Tory leads in a row? A lead in Sunil's ELBOW? :)

    My own guide prior to the first crossover was Tory leads with two different phone pollsters.

    3 out of the 4 phone pollsters have shown Tory leads this year.
    But I meant what point do we "definitively" say the Tories are in the lead.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    All the left leaning media are focusing on the "massive" cuts programmed in by George. I kinda of wonder if he doesn't mind that. I mean we have had 4 years of those same voices telling us the world will end due to cuts and it hasn't happened. The boy that cried wolf and all that. Also, the question then becomes, well what would Labour do, given they say they will basically follow general George's plans on borrowing.

    After 4 years of "bankers bonuses, the 1%, mansion taxes, it's not fair" etc etc under Ed Labour are actually 6-7 points down.

    (Diminishing) Tribal loyalty and a divided right is all they are hanging on to.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Floater said:

    Speedy said:

    Socrates said:

    surbiton said:

    Socrates said:

    surbiton said:

    George claimed we were the fastest growing major economy. Does he not consider the US a major economy?

    He said third fastest growing major economy.
    Alistair said:

    ....

    Support for independence went up after his speech. At the start of the year Indy was polling at 35%.
    No currency Union was cited by many of the 55% as the reason to vote No.
    IMF ...
    ''Britain's economy is growing faster than those of every other major developed country, the International Monetary Fund has disclosed.
    Britain is expected to grow faster than countries including America, Germany, France and Canada'' (Telegraph)
    Where does Britain stand in the G20 growth table since 2010 ? They were not elected in 2013.
    You realise that government policy isn't instantaneous in its effects, right?
    A government is elected for 5 years, right ?
    Yes. I think it's entirely reasonable to judge the Coalition on their economic record from about a year into power to the time when they leave power. They should be benchmarked against other large developed countries for that period.
    The government hasn't done bad with the economy, thanks to it's u-turn in economic policy they did what Labour would have done anyway.
    And that's a point, Balls, Darling and Osborne had the same ideas and plans, the economy will be the same regardless of who's in power.
    Help me out here. If the tories did what Labour would have done (stop sniggering at the back) can you explain what Labour have been whining about?

    you seem to be saying that Labour are opportunistic little shits.
    This govt has not done what Labour would have done (at least going by their rhetoric).
    This govt has cut spending. Labours policy was to spend more. The Institute for Fiscal Studies, says that in 2010-11, there was a discretionary fiscal tightening of 1.6% of GDP, followed by 2.4%, 1.4%, 1% and a planned 0.6% this year. Over the course of the parliament the coalition will have tightened by 7% of GDP.
    The govt has made real progress in cutting the structural deficit. The International Monetary Fund say the cyclically-adjusted deficit has come down from 10.3% of gross domestic product in 2009 to 4.1% this year.

    Britain’s GDP is now 3.4% above pre-crisis levels, (Germany 3.1%), France 1.4%, Spain -5.8% and Italy -9.4%)


  • Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    What are we counting as "proper" crossover? A certain number of consecutive Tory leads in a row? A lead in Sunil's ELBOW? :)

    My own guide prior to the first crossover was Tory leads with two different phone pollsters.

    3 out of the 4 phone pollsters have shown Tory leads this year.
    But I meant what point do we "definitively" say the Tories are in the lead.
    When the UK polling report polling average has the Tories ahead?
  • Artist said:

    Alan Titchmarsh is the latest celebrity to come out against the mansion tax. (front page of Mirror)

    Excellent
    An enterprising journalist could contact all of the Blair era Labour lovies including all those musician who went to No 10 - many of whom will live in £2m houses - and ask if they still support Labour. Would make a good article for the Mail. Maybe they've already done it.
  • Actually the official crossover thing will be is when BigJohn stops posting EICIPM, and starts posting EIC
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The Swedish Democrats must be laughing after the government collapses after three months and calls another election for March:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30306992
  • THE UK government dealt a blow to the SNP’s property tax reforms today when Chancellor George Osborne unveiled a major overhaul of Stamp Duty which will offer savings to average home purchasers UK-wide.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/stamp-duty-revamp-blow-to-snp-property-tax-reforms-1-3623960

    Chortle.......
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited December 2014
    MikeL said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories take one-point lead, Lib Dems fall to fifth: CON 32%, LAB 31%, LD 6%, UKIP 17%, GRN 7%

    2-3 December 2013 YouGov was:

    Con 32%, Lab 40%, LD 9%, UKIP 12%, Green 3%

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election#2013
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    What were the two or three most important issues in deciding on how you voted?

    57% of no voters, it was the pound

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Lord-Ashcroft-Polls-Referendum-day-poll-summary-1409191.pdf

    How many of them were among the 62% that were always going to vote no?
    Why did the others decide to vote no? Was it Salmonds smug visage? The unconvincing economics? The lack of a real defence policy? Or the lack of a viable currency?

    Personally, I think the currency was critical, but possibly you are right and the Scottish public saw through another part of Salmonds bluff and bluster.
    Your beer seems a little spittle flecked, if not tear diluted.

    You were one of the SNP imploders and 60/40ers, weren't you?
    I won a fair amount of British pounds by backing the McARSE.

    We shall see how the SNP does. I think that it will struggle to hold ground in 2011.
  • Actually the official crossover thing will be is when BigJohn stops posting EICIPM, and starts posting EIC

    Correction,

    It will be when BigJohn tells us a poll is only the position now and it'll be different when it matters in May.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    MikeK said:

    1 USAGRUNT ‏@1usagrunt 1h1 hour ago
    Over 8,000 Christians massacred and 700,000 displaced by devout Muslims in Nigeria http://wp.me/p2CcQu-8WC via @TheMuslimIssue

    Or, for those who can be arsed to read 50 pages...

    http://www.crisisgroup.org/~/media/Files/africa/west-africa/nigeria/216-curbing-violence-in-nigeria-ii-the-boko-haram-insurgency.pdf
  • Actually the official crossover thing will be is when BigJohn stops posting EICIPM, and starts posting EIC

    May 8 2015 then......

  • For fans of a single data point.

    In Dec 2013, in the last full YouGov conducted before the Autumn Statement, Lab had a 12% lead (con 29, Lab 41)

    In the first YouGov poll conducted entirely after the Autumn Statement, Lab's lead was slashed to 5% (con 34, Lab 39)
  • Actually the official crossover thing will be is when BigJohn stops posting EICIPM, and starts posting EIC

    Correction,

    It will be when BigJohn tells us a poll is only the position now and it'll be different when it matters in May.
    As Lord Ashcroft keeps on telling me, a poll is a snapshot, not a prediction.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Nice to know our civil servants are busily occupied drawing up laws that no-one is going to pay any attention to, such as banning spanking and watersports videos. I'm sure millions of people will still be watching such videos in this country regardless of these ridiculous laws.
  • For fans of a single data point.

    In Dec 2013, in the last full YouGov conducted before the Autumn Statement, Lab had a 12% lead (con 29, Lab 41)

    In the first YouGov poll conducted entirely after the Autumn Statement, Lab's lead was slashed to 5% (con 34, Lab 39)

    Cons 37% Lab 29% coming then......
  • For fans of a single data point.

    In Dec 2013, in the last full YouGov conducted before the Autumn Statement, Lab had a 12% lead (con 29, Lab 41)

    In the first YouGov poll conducted entirely after the Autumn Statement, Lab's lead was slashed to 5% (con 34, Lab 39)

    Cons 37% Lab 29% coming then......
    You know, earlier on this year, after the budget, there was a bit of the boost for the Cons, a bit like last year's Autumn Statement.

    So I have this theory, the more we see of Ozzy on TV, the Tories get a boost.

    George Osborne is awesome.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @steve_hawkes: Labour are left to argue the Chancellor hasn't cut borrowing by as much as he vowed to, despite having earlier warned he was going too fast

    @iainmartin1: Risk for Labour is that sounds as though they're saying if govt had borrowed more the deficit would now be, er, lower.

    Repeat, every day until the election...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    THE UK government dealt a blow to the SNP’s property tax reforms today when Chancellor George Osborne unveiled a major overhaul of Stamp Duty which will offer savings to average home purchasers UK-wide.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/stamp-duty-revamp-blow-to-snp-property-tax-reforms-1-3623960

    Chortle.......

    PB Nats dismissed this this afternoon as a non story.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    So I have this theory, the more we see of Ozzy on TV, the Tories get a boost.

    George Osborne is awesome.

    This post sponsored by NewsSense™
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TGOHF said:

    PB Nats dismissed this this afternoon as a non story.

    Just like the sermon on the Pound, George Osborne making a speech is "great news for the SNP"...

    ...or not.
  • The sure sign for me that the Tories were starting to edge ahead has been the unmistakeable bashing they've been taking in the PB thread headings evident over the past couple of weeks.
    If you don't agree, go back and count them for yourself!
  • Pong said:

    MikeK said:

    1 USAGRUNT ‏@1usagrunt 1h1 hour ago
    Over 8,000 Christians massacred and 700,000 displaced by devout Muslims in Nigeria http://wp.me/p2CcQu-8WC via @TheMuslimIssue

    Or, for those who can be arsed to read 50 pages...

    http://www.crisisgroup.org/~/media/Files/africa/west-africa/nigeria/216-curbing-violence-in-nigeria-ii-the-boko-haram-insurgency.pdf
    I know it's a place politicians don't want to go, but I'd support any who made it easier for muslims to renounce the faith. Obviously that applies to all other faiths, but I don't think there's much problem there. I just got back from Egypt (90% muslim, 10 christian, no option to be an atheist) and am a bit shocked by the power of religion, the existence of blasphemy and the persecution of the faithless. I am guessing apostasy for UK muslims is not a cakewalk either. It should be, and it falls to politician to clear the way.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    AndyJS said:

    Nice to know our civil servants are busily occupied drawing up laws that no-one is going to pay any attention to, such as banning spanking and watersports videos. I'm sure millions of people will still be watching such videos in this country regardless of these ridiculous laws.

    Watching them isn't illegal and still won't be. It's the buying them, which is (apparently) already illegal in physical sex shops. I haven't be able to verify that...
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376

    The sure sign for me that the Tories were starting to edge ahead has been the unmistakeable bashing they've been taking in the PB thread headings evident over the past couple of weeks.
    If you don't agree, go back and count them for yourself!

    :D haha!

    Brilliant headlines from the right and centre papers tomorrow.

    The Sun has come up with a particular gem, both for Osborne and EdM.
  • Grandiose said:

    AndyJS said:

    Nice to know our civil servants are busily occupied drawing up laws that no-one is going to pay any attention to, such as banning spanking and watersports videos. I'm sure millions of people will still be watching such videos in this country regardless of these ridiculous laws.

    Watching them isn't illegal and still won't be. It's the buying them, which is (apparently) already illegal in physical sex shops. I haven't be able to verify that...
    There's a sex shop on my way to work.

    I'll go do some research tomorrow.
  • The sure sign for me that the Tories were starting to edge ahead has been the unmistakeable bashing they've been taking in the PB thread headings evident over the past couple of weeks.
    If you don't agree, go back and count them for yourself!

    Counting them all up would be another challenge for the Tories which will be hard for us to overcome.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @alstewitn: .@BBCNewsnight Laffer on the British disease: 'You tax people who work & give cash to those who don't- do I have to say the next bit?'.
  • Ex-Rotherham Labour mayor Barry Dodson charged with indecent assault of a thirteen year old.

    http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/ex-rotherham-mayor-barry-dodson-charged-with-indecent-assault-of-teenage-girl-1-6986163#.VH-V1yI6kgE.twitter

    Wonder if the trial will be done by May.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Blueberry said:

    Ex-Rotherham Labour mayor Barry Dodson charged with indecent assault of a thirteen year old.

    http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/ex-rotherham-mayor-barry-dodson-charged-with-indecent-assault-of-teenage-girl-1-6986163#.VH-V1yI6kgE.twitter

    Wonder if the trial will be done by May.

    Barry sound an unusual name for a Muslim immigrant - our Kipper friends will be confused.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376

    Actually the official crossover thing will be is when BigJohn stops posting EICIPM, and starts posting EIC

    Correction,

    It will be when BigJohn tells us a poll is only the position now and it'll be different when it matters in May.
    As Lord Ashcroft keeps on telling me, a poll is a snapshot, not a prediction.
    Weasel words. He'd get on well with Daniel off the Apprentice.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    For fans of a single data point.

    In Dec 2013, in the last full YouGov conducted before the Autumn Statement, Lab had a 12% lead (con 29, Lab 41)

    In the first YouGov poll conducted entirely after the Autumn Statement, Lab's lead was slashed to 5% (con 34, Lab 39)

    Cons 37% Lab 29% coming then......
    You know, earlier on this year, after the budget, there was a bit of the boost for the Cons, a bit like last year's Autumn Statement.

    So I have this theory, the more we see of Ozzy on TV, the Tories get a boost.

    George Osborne is awesome.
    Or it could be that generally speaking, when Osborne, is on tv Balls, is also on tv responding to him?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    @Trumpton_UKIP Is very amusing.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    saddened said:

    For fans of a single data point.

    In Dec 2013, in the last full YouGov conducted before the Autumn Statement, Lab had a 12% lead (con 29, Lab 41)

    In the first YouGov poll conducted entirely after the Autumn Statement, Lab's lead was slashed to 5% (con 34, Lab 39)

    Cons 37% Lab 29% coming then......
    You know, earlier on this year, after the budget, there was a bit of the boost for the Cons, a bit like last year's Autumn Statement.

    So I have this theory, the more we see of Ozzy on TV, the Tories get a boost.

    George Osborne is awesome.
    Or it could be that generally speaking, when Osborne, is on tv Balls, is also on tv responding to him?
    Put like that, GO is a very lucky CofE
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    TGOHF said:

    Blueberry said:

    Ex-Rotherham Labour mayor Barry Dodson charged with indecent assault of a thirteen year old.

    http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/ex-rotherham-mayor-barry-dodson-charged-with-indecent-assault-of-teenage-girl-1-6986163#.VH-V1yI6kgE.twitter

    Wonder if the trial will be done by May.

    Barry sound an unusual name for a Muslim immigrant - our Kipper friends will be confused.
    Some USA oddballs wouldn't agree with you!
  • TGOHF said:

    Blueberry said:

    Ex-Rotherham Labour mayor Barry Dodson charged with indecent assault of a thirteen year old.

    http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/ex-rotherham-mayor-barry-dodson-charged-with-indecent-assault-of-teenage-girl-1-6986163#.VH-V1yI6kgE.twitter

    Wonder if the trial will be done by May.

    Barry sound an unusual name for a Muslim immigrant - our Kipper friends will be confused.
    Denigrating kippers wasn't what sprang to my mind. Plus ca change more like.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TGOHF said:

    @Trumpton_UKIP Is very amusing.

    Very funny

    @MichaelPDeacon: I don't want to speak too soon, but I sense we may have another "shows how much you know about pike" on our hands https://t.co/rq2YntzWDM
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    TGOHF said:

    Blueberry said:

    Ex-Rotherham Labour mayor Barry Dodson charged with indecent assault of a thirteen year old.

    http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/ex-rotherham-mayor-barry-dodson-charged-with-indecent-assault-of-teenage-girl-1-6986163#.VH-V1yI6kgE.twitter

    Wonder if the trial will be done by May.

    Barry sound an unusual name for a Muslim immigrant - our Kipper friends will be confused.
    lol
  • Should the Tories win next May, they will probably be able to look back to this particular period and consider themselves very fortunate that three quite separate aspects worked together in their favour in blowing away Labour's chances:
    First the SNP's surge in the polls which will probably result in them winning between 25-30 seats at the General Election (compared with Ladbrokes' line bet of 7.5 seats just four short months ago), principally at Labour's expense.
    Second the Greens' resurgence suggesting that they are likely to win 6% - 7% of the vote in those seats they contest, again principally at Labour's expense and perhaps sufficient to precent them from otherwise winning in say 5 - 10 marginals.
    Third, the reported falling out between Danny Alexander and Vince Cable over spending cuts at this week's Cabinet, coupled with Clegg's rather petulant decision in refusing to sit next to Cameron or Osborne in the House of Commons, thereby in effect bringing the coalition to an end and in all likelihood doing the LibDems no favours come the General Election.
    All that is now needed is for UKIP to mess up big time in some way or other and the Tories might even find themselves looking at the prospect of an overall majority.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,961
    edited December 2014
    philiph said:

    TGOHF said:

    Blueberry said:

    Ex-Rotherham Labour mayor Barry Dodson charged with indecent assault of a thirteen year old.

    http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/ex-rotherham-mayor-barry-dodson-charged-with-indecent-assault-of-teenage-girl-1-6986163#.VH-V1yI6kgE.twitter

    Wonder if the trial will be done by May.

    Barry sound an unusual name for a Muslim immigrant - our Kipper friends will be confused.
    Some USA oddballs wouldn't agree with you!
    I've been watching an American TV show called Tyrant, the main character is a Muslim called Barry.

    Which is short for Bassam.

    I think it was the producers trolling those oddballs.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    philiph said:

    TGOHF said:

    Blueberry said:

    Ex-Rotherham Labour mayor Barry Dodson charged with indecent assault of a thirteen year old.

    http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/ex-rotherham-mayor-barry-dodson-charged-with-indecent-assault-of-teenage-girl-1-6986163#.VH-V1yI6kgE.twitter

    Wonder if the trial will be done by May.

    Barry sound an unusual name for a Muslim immigrant - our Kipper friends will be confused.
    Some USA oddballs wouldn't agree with you!
    Lolol. Yes put it like that :)
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited December 2014

    Third, the reported falling out between Danny Alexander and Vince Cable over spending cuts at this week's Cabinet, coupled with Clegg's rather petulant decision in refusing to sit next to Cameron or Osborne in the House of Commons

    Yes, what on earth was Nick Clegg thinking? There's a case (a very strong one, in my view) for the LibDems to be proud of their record in helping provide the stability and good economic management which has led to amazing turnaround in the UK's economic position compared with our competitors. There's an alternative strategy which the LibDems could adopt (or at least could have adopted), which is to try to win back defectors to Labour by capitalising on the irrational hatred of the Tories, and having nothing to do with the coalition. But staying in the coalition, whilst pretending it's nothing to do with the LibDems, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Doing so just at the time when the reward for getting the economy back in shape is coming into focus is utterly bizarre as a strategy. It gives them all of the downside of being in the coalition without the upside. Danny Alexander seems to understand this very obvious point, but he seems to be one of the few LibDems who does.
  • Should the Tories win next May, they will probably be able to look back to this particular period and consider themselves very fortunate that three quite separate aspects worked together in their favour in blowing away Labour's chances:
    First the SNP's surge in the polls which will probably result in them winning between 25-30 seats at the General Election (compared with Ladbrokes' line bet of 7.5 seats just four short months ago), principally at Labour's expense.
    Second the Greens' resurgence suggesting that they are likely to win 6% - 7% of the vote in those seats they contest, again principally at Labour's expense and perhaps sufficient to precent them from otherwise winning in say 5 - 10 marginals.
    Third, the reported falling out between Danny Alexander and Vince Cable over spending cuts at this week's Cabinet, coupled with Clegg's rather petulant decision in refusing to sit next to Cameron or Osborne in the House of Commons, thereby in effect bringing the coalition to an end and in all likelihood doing the LibDems no favours come the General Election.
    All that is now needed is for UKIP to mess up big time in some way or other and the Tories might even find themselves looking at the prospect of an overall majority.

    Fourth.

    Dave vs Ed at their conferences.

    It gave a lot of senior blues confidence that our boy will thrash Ed in an election campaign.

    Had to be worth a few percentage points on Election Day.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Grandiose said:

    AndyJS said:

    Nice to know our civil servants are busily occupied drawing up laws that no-one is going to pay any attention to, such as banning spanking and watersports videos. I'm sure millions of people will still be watching such videos in this country regardless of these ridiculous laws.

    Watching them isn't illegal and still won't be. It's the buying them, which is (apparently) already illegal in physical sex shops. I haven't be able to verify that...
    Every resource the police have to expend dealing with consensual adult pornography offences is of course time and money which could be devoted to tackling the truly odious stuff, ie. material which is neither adult nor consensual.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    For any weather nuts rmets.org/weather-and-climate/observing/make-barometer

    I've just bought one of these > amazon.co.uk/18cm-Storm-Glass-Barometer-Wooden/dp/B00FF8XN88/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1417649628&sr=8-15&keywords=barometers The original FitzRoy design for a storm glass from c1700 and The Beagle.
  • Actually the official crossover thing will be is when BigJohn stops posting EICIPM, and starts posting EIC

    May 8 2015 then......

    Or: DCRAGNJ (David Cameron Resigns And Gets a New Job) Sounds like a nice name from one of the eastern European Countries though ;^)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @jessbowie: According to @labourpress, Balls will appear on various media outlets tomo at 0640; 0730; 0810; 0817; 0850; 0905 & 0920 <-rather him than me
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    AndyJS said:

    Grandiose said:

    AndyJS said:

    Nice to know our civil servants are busily occupied drawing up laws that no-one is going to pay any attention to, such as banning spanking and watersports videos. I'm sure millions of people will still be watching such videos in this country regardless of these ridiculous laws.

    Watching them isn't illegal and still won't be. It's the buying them, which is (apparently) already illegal in physical sex shops. I haven't be able to verify that...
    Every resource the police have to expend dealing with consensual adult pornography offences is of course time and money which could be devoted to tackling the truly odious stuff, ie. material which is neither adult nor consensual.
    Amen to that.

    Good luck with defining consent though...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    DavidL said:

    I am slightly bemused that he was able to announce that the deficit will be lower this year than last. I really thought he was snookered on that and so did most of the analysts I read. He is several billion behind last year at the moment.

    Surely George would not have achieved some slight of hand such as some deferred payments?

    How does the 'independent' Office For Budget Responsibility fit into all this?
  • Danny565 said:

    What are we counting as "proper" crossover? A certain number of consecutive Tory leads in a row? A lead in Sunil's ELBOW? :)

    My own guide prior to the first crossover was Tory leads with two different phone pollsters.

    3 out of the 4 phone pollsters have shown Tory leads this year.
    ELBOW for week ending 23rd Nov showed a Labour lead of only 0.5% - close to crossover, but no cigar!

    A week later, this had opened up to 2.1% Lab lead.

    The first five polls so far this week (ie. excluding tonight's YG) show a 1.4% Lab lead.
  • Plato said:

    For any weather nuts rmets.org/weather-and-climate/observing/make-barometer

    I've just bought one of these > amazon.co.uk/18cm-Storm-Glass-Barometer-Wooden/dp/B00FF8XN88/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1417649628&sr=8-15&keywords=barometers The original FitzRoy design for a storm glass from c1700 and The Beagle.

    Very nice :)

    My mum and dad have a "traditional" style barometer in their hallway but although I visit most weekends, I can't remember the last time I even consulted it!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937

    Should the Tories win next May, they will probably be able to look back to this particular period and consider themselves very fortunate that three quite separate aspects worked together in their favour in blowing away Labour's chances:
    First the SNP's surge in the polls which will probably result in them winning between 25-30 seats at the General Election (compared with Ladbrokes' line bet of 7.5 seats just four short months ago), principally at Labour's expense.
    Second the Greens' resurgence suggesting that they are likely to win 6% - 7% of the vote in those seats they contest, again principally at Labour's expense and perhaps sufficient to precent them from otherwise winning in say 5 - 10 marginals.
    Third, the reported falling out between Danny Alexander and Vince Cable over spending cuts at this week's Cabinet, coupled with Clegg's rather petulant decision in refusing to sit next to Cameron or Osborne in the House of Commons, thereby in effect bringing the coalition to an end and in all likelihood doing the LibDems no favours come the General Election.
    All that is now needed is for UKIP to mess up big time in some way or other and the Tories might even find themselves looking at the prospect of an overall majority.

    Fourth.

    Dave vs Ed at their conferences.

    It gave a lot of senior blues confidence that our boy will thrash Ed in an election campaign.

    Had to be worth a few percentage points on Election Day.
    Ffith: Labour still gives no reason to vote Labour. Today shows they are absent from the field of battle on the economy.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The Swedish election may have some influence on the UK election campaign since the former is being held on 22nd March, just a few days before the start of the UK campaign.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    Second the Greens' resurgence suggesting that they are likely to win 6% - 7% of the vote in those seats they contest, again principally at Labour's expense and perhaps sufficient to precent them from otherwise winning in say 5 - 10 marginals.

    I think 6% - 7% in the seats they contest (5% ish overall) is way too high for the Green party at the GE. Indeed there is surely some comfort for Labour that the high Green polling now is squeezable in their favour by next May.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TGOHF said:

    Blueberry said:

    Ex-Rotherham Labour mayor Barry Dodson charged with indecent assault of a thirteen year old.

    http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/ex-rotherham-mayor-barry-dodson-charged-with-indecent-assault-of-teenage-girl-1-6986163#.VH-V1yI6kgE.twitter

    Wonder if the trial will be done by May.

    Barry sound an unusual name for a Muslim immigrant - our Kipper friends will be confused.
    Hmmm there's an open goal there but I'll let someone else oblige
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    Danny565 said:
    I don't think it's a coincidence that the two parties that Labour are shedding votes to are both anti-austerity. (Greens + SNP)

    Balls' stance is also shackling Labour from the policy innovation needed to excite and reunite the left as Cruddas bemoaned a couple of months ago.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Neil said:


    Second the Greens' resurgence suggesting that they are likely to win 6% - 7% of the vote in those seats they contest, again principally at Labour's expense and perhaps sufficient to precent them from otherwise winning in say 5 - 10 marginals.

    I think 6% - 7% in the seats they contest (5% ish overall) is way too high for the Green party at the GE. Indeed there is surely some comfort for Labour that the high Green polling now is squeezable in their favour by next May.
    What would you roughly predict for the Greens?

    (Aside: do you not meet even bigger "deficit-deniers" than me in the Greens?!)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Neil said:


    Second the Greens' resurgence suggesting that they are likely to win 6% - 7% of the vote in those seats they contest, again principally at Labour's expense and perhaps sufficient to precent them from otherwise winning in say 5 - 10 marginals.

    I think 6% - 7% in the seats they contest (5% ish overall) is way too high for the Green party at the GE. Indeed there is surely some comfort for Labour that the high Green polling now is squeezable in their favour by next May.
    My anecdotal evidence is not whilst Ed is in charge. He is the reason a number of my leftist chums have gone green.....

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034
    Due to a busy day at work, haven't had a chance to watch the Autumn Statement. What was the PB verdict?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Vince Cable's face today was a picture. Chewing on a hornet doesn't begin to convey his obvious displeasure at being sat on the side of the House delivering this Statement.

    I really don't know why he carries on in politics.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Danny565 said:

    Neil said:


    Second the Greens' resurgence suggesting that they are likely to win 6% - 7% of the vote in those seats they contest, again principally at Labour's expense and perhaps sufficient to precent them from otherwise winning in say 5 - 10 marginals.

    I think 6% - 7% in the seats they contest (5% ish overall) is way too high for the Green party at the GE. Indeed there is surely some comfort for Labour that the high Green polling now is squeezable in their favour by next May.
    What would you roughly predict for the Greens?

    (Aside: do you not meet even bigger "deficit-deniers" than me in the Greens?!)
    More than last time (well, standing in roughly 50% more seats so that shouldnt be hard) but less than current poll ratings (due to not standing everywhere but, more importantly, due to being squeezed in many constituencies). 3% would be perfectly acceptable. The key for the Greens isnt national vote share though - it's places in constituencies. Retaining Brighton Pavilion and taking 2 or even 3 second places would be a fantastic result regardless of national vote share.

    I can honestly say that I dont think I've ever met anyone who on the one hand sees no problem running 10%+ deficits in perpetuity but on the other hand refuses to engage with the logical consequences of such a policy (ie what it would mean to welfare recipients and others when others stopped funding those deficits).

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,889
    Andy JS The polls show little change from the general election other than a further increase in the Swedish Democrats' score to 16% and a slight decrease in the SPD score.

    The centre left become largest party but with the balance of power held by a rightwing, populist party and new elections held just months later, hope it is not an omen for next May?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Vince Cable's face today was a picture. Chewing on a hornet doesn't begin to convey his obvious displeasure at being sat on the side of the House delivering this Statement.

    I really don't know why he carries on in politics.

    Today was quite a success for the Business Secretary. Many of the arguments he has been making over the course of this Parliament were accepted. His department is an obvious winner from the Statement (eg the extension of British Business Bank schemes).

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:


    Second the Greens' resurgence suggesting that they are likely to win 6% - 7% of the vote in those seats they contest, again principally at Labour's expense and perhaps sufficient to precent them from otherwise winning in say 5 - 10 marginals.

    I think 6% - 7% in the seats they contest (5% ish overall) is way too high for the Green party at the GE. Indeed there is surely some comfort for Labour that the high Green polling now is squeezable in their favour by next May.
    My anecdotal evidence is not whilst Ed is in charge. He is the reason a number of my leftist chums have gone green.....

    Well, yes, anecdotal evidence!

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Neil said:

    Neil said:


    Second the Greens' resurgence suggesting that they are likely to win 6% - 7% of the vote in those seats they contest, again principally at Labour's expense and perhaps sufficient to precent them from otherwise winning in say 5 - 10 marginals.

    I think 6% - 7% in the seats they contest (5% ish overall) is way too high for the Green party at the GE. Indeed there is surely some comfort for Labour that the high Green polling now is squeezable in their favour by next May.
    My anecdotal evidence is not whilst Ed is in charge. He is the reason a number of my leftist chums have gone green.....

    Well, yes, anecdotal evidence!

    Neil said:

    Neil said:


    Second the Greens' resurgence suggesting that they are likely to win 6% - 7% of the vote in those seats they contest, again principally at Labour's expense and perhaps sufficient to precent them from otherwise winning in say 5 - 10 marginals.

    I think 6% - 7% in the seats they contest (5% ish overall) is way too high for the Green party at the GE. Indeed there is surely some comfort for Labour that the high Green polling now is squeezable in their favour by next May.
    My anecdotal evidence is not whilst Ed is in charge. He is the reason a number of my leftist chums have gone green.....

    Well, yes, anecdotal evidence!

    Yes, anecdotal. But life-long Labour, active Tory-haters, who find the idea of Osborne continuing in office about on a par with Ebola appearing down their street - but they are voting Green.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Neil said:

    Vince Cable's face today was a picture. Chewing on a hornet doesn't begin to convey his obvious displeasure at being sat on the side of the House delivering this Statement.

    I really don't know why he carries on in politics.

    Today was quite a success for the Business Secretary. Many of the arguments he has been making over the course of this Parliament were accepted. His department is an obvious winner from the Statement (eg the extension of British Business Bank schemes).

    Well, given that he and Danny Alexander have reportedly not spoken for weeks, maybe Danny will claim the credit for those parts of the Curate's Egg budget that the LibDem faithful (SId and Doris Bonkers) quite liked.....

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,889
    “Total public spending is now projected to fall to 35.2% of GDP by 2019-20, taking it below the previous post-war lows reached in 1957-8 and 1999-2000 to what would probably be its lowest level in 80 years”. According to the OBR, however Cable and Clegg seem to differ with Osborne on this point
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/03/autumn-statement-2014-george-osborne-spending-cuts
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    RobD said:

    Due to a busy day at work, haven't had a chance to watch the Autumn Statement. What was the PB verdict?

    You might as well have asked last night, would have got the same answer from labour and Tory loyalists as you'll get now
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Swedish PM:

    Appointed on 3rd October.
    Lost budget vote on 3rd December.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Löfven
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034
    isam said:

    RobD said:

    Due to a busy day at work, haven't had a chance to watch the Autumn Statement. What was the PB verdict?

    You might as well have asked last night, would have got the same answer from labour and Tory loyalists as you'll get now
    Then where would I get my positive reinforcement from?? ;)
  • RobD said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:

    Due to a busy day at work, haven't had a chance to watch the Autumn Statement. What was the PB verdict?

    You might as well have asked last night, would have got the same answer from labour and Tory loyalists as you'll get now
    Then where would I get my positive reinforcement from?? ;)
    It was brilliant news for the insurgents Kippers natch.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    Neil said:


    Second the Greens' resurgence suggesting that they are likely to win 6% - 7% of the vote in those seats they contest, again principally at Labour's expense and perhaps sufficient to precent them from otherwise winning in say 5 - 10 marginals.

    I think 6% - 7% in the seats they contest (5% ish overall) is way too high for the Green party at the GE. Indeed there is surely some comfort for Labour that the high Green polling now is squeezable in their favour by next May.
    My anecdotal evidence is not whilst Ed is in charge. He is the reason a number of my leftist chums have gone green.....

    Well, yes, anecdotal evidence!

    Neil said:

    Neil said:


    Second the Greens' resurgence suggesting that they are likely to win 6% - 7% of the vote in those seats they contest, again principally at Labour's expense and perhaps sufficient to precent them from otherwise winning in say 5 - 10 marginals.

    I think 6% - 7% in the seats they contest (5% ish overall) is way too high for the Green party at the GE. Indeed there is surely some comfort for Labour that the high Green polling now is squeezable in their favour by next May.
    My anecdotal evidence is not whilst Ed is in charge. He is the reason a number of my leftist chums have gone green.....

    Well, yes, anecdotal evidence!

    Yes, anecdotal. But life-long Labour, active Tory-haters, who find the idea of Osborne continuing in office about on a par with Ebola appearing down their street - but they are voting Green.

    We all love our friends. But we'd be foolish to base any political judgements on them.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:

    Due to a busy day at work, haven't had a chance to watch the Autumn Statement. What was the PB verdict?

    You might as well have asked last night, would have got the same answer from labour and Tory loyalists as you'll get now
    Then where would I get my positive reinforcement from?? ;)
    It was brilliant news for the insurgents Kippers natch.
    I'm so not with it I had to look up "natch" in the "Urban Dictionary". I assume that is a reputable source for definitions!!
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Both George Osborne and Danny Alexander will be delighted with the Scotsman front page too.
    Twitter
    Scotsman ‏@TheScotsman now39 seconds ago
    Today's Scotsman front page: Race against time to avoid SNP's tax hike http://bit.ly/1zjqPPR

    The sure sign for me that the Tories were starting to edge ahead has been the unmistakeable bashing they've been taking in the PB thread headings evident over the past couple of weeks.
    If you don't agree, go back and count them for yourself!

    :D haha!

    Brilliant headlines from the right and centre papers tomorrow.

    The Sun has come up with a particular gem, both for Osborne and EdM.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Yesterday's the National front page back fired spectacularly...
    HYUFD said:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,889
    Fitalass Indeed, some divisions emerging

    Meanwhile, Anthony Wells and UK Polling Report now officially predicting a hung Parliament with Labour just short of a majority http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

    Night!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited December 2014
    You couldn't make it up...

    Russell Brand pays £5k a month to his tax-exile landlords

    Fight the power, fight the man...what you want five grand a month to rent that pad and you want it wired to a tax haven, no problem mate. PARKLIFE....
This discussion has been closed.