I'm sure it is heresy to say this to cricket lovers but could they not look at making the ball less lethal. I accept fully the need for sport to involve risk but...
We are supposed to show understanding and empathy to help rehabilitate hardened criminals, but someone who voted for a political party that you don't like should be ostracised permanently
If you want the bad smell to stop following your party around, then yes.
According to your logic, Labour are supposed to tell ex-communists, ex-Respect, ex-Socialist Labour Party supporters that they don't want their votes.
It's an idea, I suppose.
You're being disingenuous. Nick Griffin is not an ordinary voter who may [or not] have seen the true light of UKIP. And you know it.
I finally saw the true light of David Cameron's Conservatives and felt I had no choice but to change my vote to UKIP.
Do you think this sort of 'UKIP = BNP light' nonsense is in any way convincing to other disillusioned Tories who are also considering a similar switch?
I think the correct phrase should be BNP lite not light ... and yes.
In that case, expect further defectors.
I think further defectors are possible but not as a result of Nick Griffin's endorsement. I would be amazed if the UKIP leadership do anything but deplore his support. They are not quite that stupid.
That wasn't my point. It's the pathetic attempts by Conservative Party supporters to paint UKIP as extremists and on the far-right that's idiotic.
It doesn't convince a single waverer but it can drive them closer to the exit door by denigrating perfectly reasonable positions that many natural conservatives share.
If the Conservative Party is terminally moribund how come it got 37% of the vote at the last GE, a higher percentage than Blair got in 2005. Something does not compute.
Blair in a similar situation got 42%. The Tories are in long term decline. UKIP is the future.
I think it matters enormously. A party that crashes to votes of under 5% in 500 constituencies runs the risk of going the same way as the Liberals after 1929. Every successive election sees more seats being lost, as MPs retire, and other parties can pour resources into the remaining seats.
The Conservatives lost 2,000 Councillors in a single night in 1995 as well as half the Parliamentary strength in 1997 but recovered on both counts.
I don't think the Conservatives have ever recovered from 1997. They spent a decade bumbling along ~31%. Failed to get a majority when Labour were reduced to 29%, and now seem to be on for a <30% result in 2015.</p>
1997 and 2001 shattered the Conservatives' intellectual self-confidence.
That's so true. It's a terminally moribund party.
Rofl - How often do posters on here get over-excited by a few bad polls or even, in the case of the Tories a few years out of office. If you had any real sense of the history of the party you would know you're talking b******s. The reason it has endured longer than the rest is because of it's ability to evolve.
That's a telling response. Are you actually rolling on the floor laughing about that, or are you actually secretly a little bit worried that might be true but, because you can't substantiate why it isn't, you're resorting to throwing your toys out of the pram instead?
Errr no - when UKIP has survived RCE 1829, RoCL 1846, HR in Ireland 1870-1922, H/L Reform 1911, etc., etc., then maybe you will have a point worth making.
We are supposed to show understanding and empathy to help rehabilitate hardened criminals, but someone who voted for a political party that you don't like should be ostracised permanently
If you want the bad smell to stop following your party around, then yes.
According to your logic, Labour are supposed to tell ex-communists, ex-Respect, ex-Socialist Labour Party supporters that they don't want their votes.
It's an idea, I suppose.
You're being disingenuous. Nick Griffin is not an ordinary voter who may [or not] have seen the true light of UKIP. And you know it.
I finally saw the true light of David Cameron's Conservatives and felt I had no choice but to change my vote to UKIP.
Do you think this sort of 'UKIP = BNP light' nonsense is in any way convincing to other disillusioned Tories who are also considering a similar switch?
I think the correct phrase should be BNP lite not light ... and yes.
In that case, expect further defectors.
I'm sorry you can no longer support the Conservative Party (ditto Sean Fear) but you must understand that the policies required to regain your allegiance would likely mean that rather more voters and current Tory supporters (including me) would be repelled.
Meanwhile, as you yourself have commented while wrestling with your decision, a vote for UKIP in most seats (albeit not yours) will assist Labour and Ed Miliband as PM, resulting in no chance whatever of a referendum on leaving the EU.
Which party are white racists most likely to vote for at the election next year?
Great question.
Which party are paedophiles most likely to vote for in the next election?
Well, you started it.
I don't know about the paedophiles. I don't think they're a large enough group of the population for their political views to be worth considering. Or that their political views will be related to their paedophilia.
Racists, on the other hand, have been generally attracted to the BNP or similar parties in the past (or from Labour's insinuations any party to the right of them).
I know that you know that the answer to my question is the party that you support, which is why you avoided answering it.
"The British National party has called on its supporters to give their second-preference votes in the London mayoral election to the Conservative candidate, Boris Johnson."
Suits TSE right for playing the endorsement game. If being endorsed by Nick Griffin is a political crime (as per TSE) what does that say about Boris Johnson?
Lesson that TSE needs to learn: You can't control who endorses you. Even you could be endorsed by Nick Griffin one day.
And doesn't Boris have a history of using racially derogatory words such as 'picaninnies' and 'watermelon' ?
I'm sure that the PB Tories will now line up and condemn Boris as a racist who gets the support of racists.
Or perhaps we could all find something to discuss more constructively.
What were the issues/arguments that caused your views to change? My views have changed a lot over the years: I used to be much more of an arrogant "us, the educated elite, know best" type, and I've found that smart people have just as many prejudices and unthought-through opinions as the guy down the pub. I thus now hear out working class concerns a lot more. On the other hand, the more I've learnt about history, the more I've appreciated how unique a historical accident liberal democracy is, and I've become a lot more strong-minded about the protections that are part of that.
As for the Greens, they seem to me that they would be too economically left-wing for you. If you were once a Tory, presumably on economic grounds, I can't quite understand how you can side with a party that believes in zero growth.
Thanks for the reply and sorry for the delay in replying back. I went into town, had my tea, watched a bit of TV etc.
Anyway, it's not easy to point to any particular single arguments that have caused my views to change - but I suppose some of it is to do with the people I mix with. I grew up on a small dairy farm and,although I'm university educated with a BSc in Agriculture I've never really worked in a graduate level job. I chose to leave the agriculture industry and have been working on the shop floor of a window/door factory for the past 10 years. Obviously that's a more left-wing environment than farming is and, being part of it has influenced me to see the world in a different way.
Also a key moment was my parents emigrating to France in 2000. I saw what a huge difference that made to their quality of life and health and well being - like me they were escaping the farming industry. They spent the final 12 years of their working lives in the tourism sector in France before returning to the UK upon their retirement two years ago. I feel very strongly that everyone and anyone (so long as they are law abiding) should have the right to live wherever they wish to live. It did my parents so much good to move to another country. So anything that cuts across freedom of movement angers me - hence my vitriolic reaction to Cameron's speech.
You're probably correct that the Greens are more economically left-wing than I still am - but we all have our special touchstone issues which influence our votes more than others. I'm sure there are things you dislike about UKIP but the things that attract you to UKIP are more important to you? For me it's environmental issues which top my list ahead of all others when choosing how to vote. I feel as let down by the " Vote Blue Go Green" stuff the Conservatives put out last time as you feel let down by their EU and immigration policies. What you and I have in common is that we've both been let down by the Conservatives on our respective key issues.
Mr Sarkozy has already started talking about repatriating powers from the EU, so whether or not Ms Le Pen wins, she is moving the debate to more of an anti-EU position.
We are supposed to show understanding and empathy to help rehabilitate hardened criminals, but someone who voted for a political party that you don't like should be ostracised permanently
If you want the bad smell to stop following your party around, then yes.
According to your logic, Labour are supposed to tell ex-communists, ex-Respect, ex-Socialist Labour Party supporters that they don't want their votes.
It's an idea, I suppose.
You're being disingenuous. Nick Griffin is not an ordinary voter who may [or not] have seen the true light of UKIP. And you know it.
I finally saw the true light of David Cameron's Conservatives and felt I had no choice but to change my vote to UKIP.
Do you think this sort of 'UKIP = BNP light' nonsense is in any way convincing to other disillusioned Tories who are also considering a similar switch?
I think the correct phrase should be BNP lite not light ... and yes.
In that case, expect further defectors.
I'm sorry you can no longer support the Conservative Party (ditto Sean Fear) but you must understand that the policies required to regain your allegiance would likely mean that rather more voters and current Tory supporters (including me) would be repelled.
Meanwhile, as you yourself have commented while wrestling with your decision, a vote for UKIP in most seats (albeit not yours) will assist Labour and Ed Miliband as PM, resulting in no chance whatever of a referendum on leaving the EU.
Comments
Yowzers
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3o2KGXIUAABmzo.jpg
LibLabCon: Covering up paedophile scandals right, left and centre.
UKIP: Attacking the paedophile cover-ups at every opportunity.
It doesn't convince a single waverer but it can drive them closer to the exit door by denigrating perfectly reasonable positions that many natural conservatives share.
Accuse them of being racist
Good luck! I'm off out
Meanwhile, as you yourself have commented while wrestling with your decision, a vote for UKIP in most seats (albeit not yours) will assist Labour and Ed Miliband as PM, resulting in no chance whatever of a referendum on leaving the EU.
Racists, on the other hand, have been generally attracted to the BNP or similar parties in the past (or from Labour's insinuations any party to the right of them).
I know that you know that the answer to my question is the party that you support, which is why you avoided answering it.
I'm sure that the PB Tories will now line up and condemn Boris as a racist who gets the support of racists.
Or perhaps we could all find something to discuss more constructively.
Thanks for the reply and sorry for the delay in replying back. I went into town, had my tea, watched a bit of TV etc.
Anyway, it's not easy to point to any particular single arguments that have caused my views to change - but I suppose some of it is to do with the people I mix with. I grew up on a small dairy farm and,although I'm university educated with a BSc in Agriculture I've never really worked in a graduate level job. I chose to leave the agriculture industry and have been working on the shop floor of a window/door factory for the past 10 years. Obviously that's a more left-wing environment than farming is and, being part of it has influenced me to see the world in a different way.
Also a key moment was my parents emigrating to France in 2000. I saw what a huge difference that made to their quality of life and health and well being - like me they were escaping the farming industry. They spent the final 12 years of their working lives in the tourism sector in France before returning to the UK upon their retirement two years ago. I feel very strongly that everyone and anyone (so long as they are law abiding) should have the right to live wherever they wish to live. It did my parents so much good to move to another country. So anything that cuts across freedom of movement angers me - hence my vitriolic reaction to Cameron's speech.
You're probably correct that the Greens are more economically left-wing than I still am - but we all have our special touchstone issues which influence our votes more than others. I'm sure there are things you dislike about UKIP but the things that attract you to UKIP are more important to you? For me it's environmental issues which top my list ahead of all others when choosing how to vote. I feel as let down by the " Vote Blue Go Green" stuff the Conservatives put out last time as you feel let down by their EU and immigration policies. What you and I have in common is that we've both been let down by the Conservatives on our respective key issues.