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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The week’s Local By-Election Results : Gains for SNP, UKIP

SystemSystem Posts: 12,214
edited November 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The week’s Local By-Election Results : Gains for SNP, UKIP and CON

East Riding of Yorkshire
Bridlington Central and Old Town
Result: UKIP 401 (31%), Conservative 352 (27%), Dealtry (Independent) 217 (17%), Dixon (Independent) 214 (16%), Tate (Independent) 116 (9%)
UKIP GAIN from Social Democrat with a majority of 49 (4%)
Total Independent vote: 547 (42%)

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    Luckyguy Typical Sugar comment, though he is clearly more of a Brown than a Miliband man
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Sky News
    Jeremy Paxman Rules Out Mayor Of London Bid
    The University Challenge host says he would not stand as Conservative candidate for the role - "for all the eclairs in Paris".


    What a shame would have been fun to see Paxo on the rough end of a political interview
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    edited November 2014
    Another week of perfectly respectable local polling for the Tories bar Aberdeenshire. Where is the evidence of the Labour lead beloved of Populus and the other dodgy pollsters?

    Ukip will be happy as well.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    I distinctly remember Sugar ca 1990 being anything but pro-Labour.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    I think the Aberdeenshire result is skewed by the STV system used for by elections. A better guide would be to see 1st preference vote split. Same for Midlothian.
  • Should that be Asfordby in Melton ?

    If it is its the place where the last coal mine was dug in the UK.


  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    In the HIllingdon ward in 2010 on the same day as the GE Labour were ahead by 1%. Yesterday they were ahead by 1%.

    http://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/article/19791/Charville-ward-results-2010
  • With usual warnings about anecdotes, the comments I've heard during the last day about Mitchell have been universally taking pleasure at his humiliation. Even from those who know the full story about the police misconduct.

    Politicians are not popular.

    This may lead to a general lowering of incumbency votes.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    edited November 2014
    HYUFD said:

    Luckyguy Typical Sugar comment, though he is clearly more of a Brown than a Miliband man

    I'm not a big Sugar fan. I like the straight-talking Barrow boy style, but the actual content coming out of the mouth is pish. I appreciate he made his money, and well done to him, but fuck ups like the 'emailer phone' demonstrate no nous whatsoever these days.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2014
    NOM has dropped to 1.43 from 1.50 earlier today:

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/market?marketId=1.101416490
  • Norm said:

    Another week of perfectly respectable local polling for the Tories bar Aberdeenshire. Where is the evidence of the Labour lead beloved of Populus and the other dodgy pollsters?

    Ukip will be happy as well.

    Please don't call any pollster "dodgy". They are applying their methodology and you simply cannot compare 30% turnout local elections when you are selecting a councillor with general elections. If you could then I would have been elected an MP in 1992.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    Itajai said:

    I distinctly remember Sugar ca 1990 being anything but pro-Labour.

    Interesting how his political evolution from Thatcher's boy to Labour luvvie has mirrored his faltering business fortunes.
  • All votes listed in STV elections ARE first preference and all changes in vote share are on first preferences in 2012
  • With usual warnings about anecdotes, the comments I've heard during the last day about Mitchell have been universally taking pleasure at his humiliation. Even from those who know the full story about the police misconduct.

    Politicians are not popular.

    This may lead to a general lowering of incumbency votes.

    Except that the alternative to one career politician is invariably another career politician.
  • Itajai said:

    In the HIllingdon ward in 2010 on the same day as the GE Labour were ahead by 1%. Yesterday they were ahead by 1%.

    http://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/article/19791/Charville-ward-results-2010

    The Uxbridge area has been on a long term drift towards the Conservatives - IIRC Labour won the constituency in 1966 but not in 1997, the only such in all London. In some ways comparable to how Romford and Hornchurch on the other edge of London has swung to the right

    By comparison the Hayes area to the south has moved massively towards Labour.

    There are various demographic influences on these changes but I don't know enough about Charville to know how they might apply there.
  • With usual warnings about anecdotes, the comments I've heard during the last day about Mitchell have been universally taking pleasure at his humiliation. Even from those who know the full story about the police misconduct.

    Politicians are not popular.

    This may lead to a general lowering of incumbency votes.

    Mitchell is a classic case of "I'm an MP so superior to you". Total arrogance in his approach to the police and in his libel suit..

    See also Emily Thornberry as a "I'm sneering at white trash who have patriotic feelings".

    Our MPs are supposed to represent us plebs in Parliament. It would appear at least two thinks we are inferior beings to their rich and propertied selves.

    (It's as moronic and short sighted as the French aristocracy in the days of Louis X1V "let them eat cake" stuff.)

    I am not by any means a UKIP supporter but their comments about Westminster elites ring strangely true.

    See also Michael Portillo who got treated as he deserved in 1997..(and I suggest became a nicer person afterwards)




  • With usual warnings about anecdotes, the comments I've heard during the last day about Mitchell have been universally taking pleasure at his humiliation. Even from those who know the full story about the police misconduct.

    Politicians are not popular.

    This may lead to a general lowering of incumbency votes.

    Except that the alternative to one career politician is invariably another career politician.
    True and I'm sure much of the dislike will quickly transfer onto the next person elected.

    But I think its going to be easier for the next one to be elected in the first place.

  • Whilst living in Hemsworth did you ever sample the joys of South Elmsall ?

    This Mirror story helps explain the Labour to UKIP swing in the Yorkshire mining areas:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/next-christmas-jobs-offered-polish-4709994

    Though the Mirror do manage to put an anti-Conservative slant on it.
  • Norm said:

    Another week of perfectly respectable local polling for the Tories bar Aberdeenshire. Where is the evidence of the Labour lead beloved of Populus and the other dodgy pollsters?

    Ukip will be happy as well.

    Please don't call any pollster "dodgy". They are applying their methodology and you simply cannot compare 30% turnout local elections when you are selecting a councillor with general elections. If you could then I would have been elected an MP in 1992.
    Unless we see a "Great Convergence" in the opinion polling then one or other of the pollsters are going to be left looking a bit silly, as per Angus Reid at GE2010. Populus are definitely out on something of a limb at the moment, but perhaps they will be vindicated?

    This huge spread does do one thing worthy of note. It allows partisans on either side to find a poll to reassure them. Other people's confirmation bias is a rich vein of opportunity for the astute political gambler who can keep a level head.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    edited November 2014

    Itajai said:

    In the HIllingdon ward in 2010 on the same day as the GE Labour were ahead by 1%. Yesterday they were ahead by 1%.

    http://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/article/19791/Charville-ward-results-2010

    The Uxbridge area has been on a long term drift towards the Conservatives - IIRC Labour won the constituency in 1966 but not in 1997, the only such in all London. In some ways comparable to how Romford and Hornchurch on the other edge of London has swung to the right

    By comparison the Hayes area to the south has moved massively towards Labour.

    There are various demographic influences on these changes but I don't know enough about Charville to know how they might apply there.
    And the Tories won the 1997 by election.

    This ward is in Hayes which I suspect has a far higher ethnic population than it used to 25 years ago. Ealing has moved strongly Labour in the last 5 years and this has been balanced somewhat by HIllingdon moving Tory. Like in Havering possibly because of white flight.

    BTW what happened to the excellent election-map website. The new dumbed down version run by the OS is pretty rubbish. How do I even get ward names?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033
    The new Tebbit test:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11262132/Lord-Tebbit-announces-new-cricket-test-for-EU-countries.html
    In an interview with BBC Newsnight, Lord Tebbit said: "Well one test I would use is to ask them on which side their fathers or grandfathers or whatever fought in the Second World War. And so you'll find that the Poles and the Czechs and the Slovaks were all on the right side. And so that's a pretty good test isn’t it? Perhaps we'll even manage to teach them to play cricket over the years."
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Some parts of Uxbridge are drifting to Labour these days due to an increasing EM population.
  • Norm said:

    Another week of perfectly respectable local polling for the Tories bar Aberdeenshire. Where is the evidence of the Labour lead beloved of Populus and the other dodgy pollsters?

    Ukip will be happy as well.

    Please don't call any pollster "dodgy". They are applying their methodology and you simply cannot compare 30% turnout local elections when you are selecting a councillor with general elections. If you could then I would have been elected an MP in 1992.
    Mike

    There was some talk in the media immediately after the 1992 election that Trevor Skeet would get a peerage and so free up the constituency for Chris Patton to return to parliament in a byelection to be held at the same time as the May local elections.

    Was any of this discussed in the constituency ?

    IIRC Trevor Skeet was not universally popular among his constituency party.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    AndyJS said:

    Some parts of Uxbridge are drifting to Labour these days due to an increasing EM population.

    Uxbridge, or the Hayes area of Hillingdon?

    And now you know why Labour are so keen to import voters.
  • Norm said:

    Another week of perfectly respectable local polling for the Tories bar Aberdeenshire. Where is the evidence of the Labour lead beloved of Populus and the other dodgy pollsters?

    Ukip will be happy as well.

    Please don't call any pollster "dodgy". They are applying their methodology and you simply cannot compare 30% turnout local elections when you are selecting a councillor with general elections. If you could then I would have been elected an MP in 1992.
    Unless we see a "Great Convergence" in the opinion polling then one or other of the pollsters are going to be left looking a bit silly, as per Angus Reid at GE2010. Populus are definitely out on something of a limb at the moment, but perhaps they will be vindicated?

    This huge spread does do one thing worthy of note. It allows partisans on either side to find a poll to reassure them. Other people's confirmation bias is a rich vein of opportunity for the astute political gambler who can keep a level head.
    In broad terms online pollsters produces higher aggregates for CON/LAB than the phone firms.

    I can't work out what's driving the Populus figures although not so long ago they were one of the most pro-CON firms.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,989
    Evening all :)

    A few random thoughts on the day - terrible news about Philip Hughes.

    The great Cameron speech on immigration - well, yes but I'm tempted to say "so what ?". It's not a speech which will outflank UKIP in any sense but it's probably about as far as Cameron feels Europe will let him go at this time. The recent court ruling relating to EU citizens not being able to claim benefits in Germany has been a huge help.

    I do find the idea of stopping citizens of new EU countries coming here to work until their economies "have converged more closely" laughable. No one applied that rigour when the times were good and we needed cheap skilled labour to keep the boom going. Indeed, I've long argued that admitting the former Communist countries of Eastern Europe to the EU after 1989 was less about economics than politics.

    I'm also curious that those who get so animated in the defence of "British culture" have nothing to say about the latest import of Americana - "Black Friday". Do we need it - does it show the great British public in a positive light and are the likes of Tesco and the rest going to stump up for the extra Police costs they have caused ?
  • With usual warnings about anecdotes, the comments I've heard during the last day about Mitchell have been universally taking pleasure at his humiliation. Even from those who know the full story about the police misconduct.

    Politicians are not popular.

    This may lead to a general lowering of incumbency votes.

    Mitchell is a classic case of "I'm an MP so superior to you". Total arrogance in his approach to the police and in his libel suit..

    See also Emily Thornberry as a "I'm sneering at white trash who have patriotic feelings".

    Our MPs are supposed to represent us plebs in Parliament. It would appear at least two thinks we are inferior beings to their rich and propertied selves.

    (It's as moronic and short sighted as the French aristocracy in the days of Louis X1V "let them eat cake" stuff.)

    I am not by any means a UKIP supporter but their comments about Westminster elites ring strangely true.

    See also Michael Portillo who got treated as he deserved in 1997..(and I suggest became a nicer person afterwards)




    Its good to see you back after a few years away.

    I always wonder if some posters who disappear have died without anyone online knowing.
  • With usual warnings about anecdotes, the comments I've heard during the last day about Mitchell have been universally taking pleasure at his humiliation. Even from those who know the full story about the police misconduct.

    Politicians are not popular.

    This may lead to a general lowering of incumbency votes.

    Mitchell is a classic case of "I'm an MP so superior to you". Total arrogance in his approach to the police and in his libel suit..

    See also Emily Thornberry as a "I'm sneering at white trash who have patriotic feelings".

    Our MPs are supposed to represent us plebs in Parliament. It would appear at least two thinks we are inferior beings to their rich and propertied selves.

    (It's as moronic and short sighted as the French aristocracy in the days of Louis X1V "let them eat cake" stuff.)

    I am not by any means a UKIP supporter but their comments about Westminster elites ring strangely true.

    See also Michael Portillo who got treated as he deserved in 1997..(and I suggest became a nicer person afterwards)




    David Mellor also in the news recently. May have to travel by bus in the future.
  • stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm also curious that those who get so animated in the defence of "British culture" have nothing to say about the latest import of Americana - "Black Friday". Do we need it - does it show the great British public in a positive light and are the likes of Tesco and the rest going to stump up for the extra Police costs they have caused ?

    Totally agree there.

    Its not as if we need anymore encouragement to buy imported consumer tat.

    And I'm baffled as to why the supermarkets are encouraging it. Last week they were aspiring to go upmarket with posh wines and whole serrano hams and now they're selling TVs at a loss to brawling chavs in the middle of the night. Very sophisticated.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    A few random thoughts on the day - terrible news about Philip Hughes.

    The great Cameron speech on immigration - well, yes but I'm tempted to say "so what ?". It's not a speech which will outflank UKIP in any sense but it's probably about as far as Cameron feels Europe will let him go at this time. The recent court ruling relating to EU citizens not being able to claim benefits in Germany has been a huge help.

    I do find the idea of stopping citizens of new EU countries coming here to work until their economies "have converged more closely" laughable. No one applied that rigour when the times were good and we needed cheap skilled labour to keep the boom going. Indeed, I've long argued that admitting the former Communist countries of Eastern Europe to the EU after 1989 was less about economics than politics.

    I'm also curious that those who get so animated in the defence of "British culture" have nothing to say about the latest import of Americana - "Black Friday". Do we need it - does it show the great British public in a positive light and are the likes of Tesco and the rest going to stump up for the extra Police costs they have caused ?

    Wonder what Emily Thornberry would have made of Black Friday
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Itajai said:

    AndyJS said:

    Some parts of Uxbridge are drifting to Labour these days due to an increasing EM population.

    Uxbridge, or the Hayes area of Hillingdon?

    And now you know why Labour are so keen to import voters.
    Those parts of Uxbridge closest to Hayes.

    Even Ruislip and Northwood are not as Tory as they used to be, relative to the national result.
  • SandraMSandraM Posts: 206
    edited November 2014
    Regarding arrogant MPs and arrogant ex-MPs, my mother lives in Wareham where David ("Do you know who I am, cabbie?) Mellor grew up. I've heard several anecdotes about how he was obnoxious and full of himself as a schoolboy, so one thing you can say about Mellor is that he wasn't spoilt by power - he was always like that.
  • Norm said:

    Another week of perfectly respectable local polling for the Tories bar Aberdeenshire. Where is the evidence of the Labour lead beloved of Populus and the other dodgy pollsters?

    Ukip will be happy as well.

    Please don't call any pollster "dodgy". They are applying their methodology and you simply cannot compare 30% turnout local elections when you are selecting a councillor with general elections. If you could then I would have been elected an MP in 1992.
    Unless we see a "Great Convergence" in the opinion polling then one or other of the pollsters are going to be left looking a bit silly, as per Angus Reid at GE2010. Populus are definitely out on something of a limb at the moment, but perhaps they will be vindicated?

    This huge spread does do one thing worthy of note. It allows partisans on either side to find a poll to reassure them. Other people's confirmation bias is a rich vein of opportunity for the astute political gambler who can keep a level head.
    In broad terms online pollsters produces higher aggregates for CON/LAB than the phone firms.

    I can't work out what's driving the Populus figures although not so long ago they were one of the most pro-CON firms.

    In one sense, they still are the most Con firm; the average poll scores for Con in October were:

    Populus - 33.4
    YouGov - 32.2
    ICM - 31.0
    Survation - 31.0
    ComRes - 30.5
    Opinium - 30.5
    Mori - 30.0
    Ashcroft - 29.8

    Obviously, these aren't directly comparable as some firms only carried out one poll - and did so at different times of the month - while others published many. That said, and probably coincidentally, those who polled most are at the extreme end of the range above, which isn't what you'd expect from natural statistical variation.

    The striking thing about Populus is how high their combined Con+Lab scores are: their October average being 69.2, compared with just 60.8 for Ashcroft and more than 3% more than any other pollster. They may be right but they're out on a limb.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,989
    Itajai said:


    Wonder what Emily Thornberry would have made of Black Friday

    Well, I can't answer that and I'm sure you're not making any comparison. The points I would make about "Black Friday" are first that it's an imported piece of American culture (same as "Prom Nights"). We have a proud British culture and don't need this constant Americanisation of our lives.

    Second, the good honest British tradition of clawing your neighbour's eyes out for a bargain has a place - it's called Boxing Day. We don't need to have it twice in the same year.

    Third, it illustrates the degree to which we are still wedded to conspicuous consumption yet tainted with the sure-footed knowledge that we are getting a bargain. As we fight for that heavily-discounted gadget without which our lives would no longer be complete, do we ever wonder why the store is selling them at that price and, given the obvious demand, why they couldn't sell them at that price all the time ?

    It's all about "the triumph of the deal" - my gadget is £150 cheaper than it was last week - I've got to get it NOW before the price goes up and I'll stand outside a packed Tesco's and fight complete strangers for it.

    And some claim there are no values left (well, only the heavily discounted ones).

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited November 2014
    AndyJS said:

    Some parts of Uxbridge are drifting to Labour these days due to an increasing EM population.

    For a moment there I thought you meant Ed SMiliband was replicating!

    Urgh!


  • [David, w]hilst living in Hemsworth did you ever sample the joys of South Elmsall ?

    This Mirror story helps explain the Labour to UKIP swing in the Yorkshire mining areas:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/next-christmas-jobs-offered-polish-4709994

    Though the Mirror do manage to put an anti-Conservative slant on it.

    I don't know South Elmsall all that well though I did visit briefly a couple of times. There isn't really anything in that article that surprises me much though.
  • HYUFD said:

    Luckyguy Typical Sugar comment, though he is clearly more of a Brown than a Miliband man

    I'm not a big Sugar fan. I like the straight-talking Barrow boy style, but the actual content coming out of the mouth is pish. I appreciate he made his money, and well done to him, but fuck ups like the 'emailer phone' demonstrate no nous whatsoever these days.
    And yet most of us do now carry phones that send email. An idea ahead of its time, perhaps? On that theme, many of the dot com boom failures are now part of everyday life -- technology has caught up with those early graphics-heavy animated designs that rendered websites unusable at the turn of the millenium.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited November 2014
    stodge said:

    Itajai said:


    Wonder what Emily Thornberry would have made of Black Friday

    Well, I can't answer that and I'm sure you're not making any comparison. The points I would make about "Black Friday" are first that it's an imported piece of American culture (same as "Prom Nights"). We have a proud British culture and don't need this constant Americanisation of our lives.

    Second, the good honest British tradition of clawing your neighbour's eyes out for a bargain has a place - it's called Boxing Day. We don't need to have it twice in the same year.

    Third, it illustrates the degree to which we are still wedded to conspicuous consumption yet tainted with the sure-footed knowledge that we are getting a bargain. As we fight for that heavily-discounted gadget without which our lives would no longer be complete, do we ever wonder why the store is selling them at that price and, given the obvious demand, why they couldn't sell them at that price all the time ?

    It's all about "the triumph of the deal" - my gadget is £150 cheaper than it was last week - I've got to get it NOW before the price goes up and I'll stand outside a packed Tesco's and fight complete strangers for it.

    And some claim there are no values left (well, only the heavily discounted ones).

    Perhaps the discounted sale goods could be placed in an colossal arena, with seating for 100,000 people, would be bargain hunters could be armed with axes, spears and swords.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033
    dr_spyn said:

    stodge said:

    Itajai said:


    Wonder what Emily Thornberry would have made of Black Friday

    Well, I can't answer that and I'm sure you're not making any comparison. The points I would make about "Black Friday" are first that it's an imported piece of American culture (same as "Prom Nights"). We have a proud British culture and don't need this constant Americanisation of our lives.

    Second, the good honest British tradition of clawing your neighbour's eyes out for a bargain has a place - it's called Boxing Day. We don't need to have it twice in the same year.

    Third, it illustrates the degree to which we are still wedded to conspicuous consumption yet tainted with the sure-footed knowledge that we are getting a bargain. As we fight for that heavily-discounted gadget without which our lives would no longer be complete, do we ever wonder why the store is selling them at that price and, given the obvious demand, why they couldn't sell them at that price all the time ?

    It's all about "the triumph of the deal" - my gadget is £150 cheaper than it was last week - I've got to get it NOW before the price goes up and I'll stand outside a packed Tesco's and fight complete strangers for it.

    And some claim there are no values left (well, only the heavily discounted ones).

    Perhaps the discounted sale goods could be placed in an colossal arena, with seating for 100,000 people, would be bargain hunters could be armed with axes, spears and swords.

    and the Queen gives thumbs up/down indication of whether or not the bargain hunters can keep what they have fought for.
  • RobD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    stodge said:

    Itajai said:


    Wonder what Emily Thornberry would have made of Black Friday

    Well, I can't answer that and I'm sure you're not making any comparison. The points I would make about "Black Friday" are first that it's an imported piece of American culture (same as "Prom Nights"). We have a proud British culture and don't need this constant Americanisation of our lives.

    Second, the good honest British tradition of clawing your neighbour's eyes out for a bargain has a place - it's called Boxing Day. We don't need to have it twice in the same year.

    Third, it illustrates the degree to which we are still wedded to conspicuous consumption yet tainted with the sure-footed knowledge that we are getting a bargain. As we fight for that heavily-discounted gadget without which our lives would no longer be complete, do we ever wonder why the store is selling them at that price and, given the obvious demand, why they couldn't sell them at that price all the time ?

    It's all about "the triumph of the deal" - my gadget is £150 cheaper than it was last week - I've got to get it NOW before the price goes up and I'll stand outside a packed Tesco's and fight complete strangers for it.

    And some claim there are no values left (well, only the heavily discounted ones).

    Perhaps the discounted sale goods could be placed in an colossal arena, with seating for 100,000 people, would be bargain hunters could be armed with axes, spears and swords.

    and the Queen gives thumbs up/down indication of whether or not the bargain hunters can keep what they have fought for.
    Turn Black Friday into something more like The Hunger Games.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    RobD said:

    The new Tebbit test:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11262132/Lord-Tebbit-announces-new-cricket-test-for-EU-countries.html

    In an interview with BBC Newsnight, Lord Tebbit said: "Well one test I would use is to ask them on which side their fathers or grandfathers or whatever fought in the Second World War. And so you'll find that the Poles and the Czechs and the Slovaks were all on the right side. And so that's a pretty good test isn’t it? Perhaps we'll even manage to teach them to play cricket over the years."
    Where did Mr T learn his history? Or did it end in 1485? He needs to read up about the Slovak Fast Corps, for one thing: e.g.

    http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IPr7nqR0M9AC&pg=PA6&lpg=PA6&dq=slovak+fast+corps&source=bl&ots=slF9A3PVGs&sig=NTCuBAOoP2FTRsDyPoJhrA7fok8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=weZ4VNu5PMbZar3ZgbgG&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=slovak fast corps&f=false

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    RobD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    stodge said:

    Itajai said:


    Wonder what Emily Thornberry would have made of Black Friday

    Well, I can't answer that and I'm sure you're not making any comparison. The points I would make about "Black Friday" are first that it's an imported piece of American culture (same as "Prom Nights"). We have a proud British culture and don't need this constant Americanisation of our lives.

    Second, the good honest British tradition of clawing your neighbour's eyes out for a bargain has a place - it's called Boxing Day. We don't need to have it twice in the same year.

    Third, it illustrates the degree to which we are still wedded to conspicuous consumption yet tainted with the sure-footed knowledge that we are getting a bargain. As we fight for that heavily-discounted gadget without which our lives would no longer be complete, do we ever wonder why the store is selling them at that price and, given the obvious demand, why they couldn't sell them at that price all the time ?

    It's all about "the triumph of the deal" - my gadget is £150 cheaper than it was last week - I've got to get it NOW before the price goes up and I'll stand outside a packed Tesco's and fight complete strangers for it.

    And some claim there are no values left (well, only the heavily discounted ones).

    Perhaps the discounted sale goods could be placed in an colossal arena, with seating for 100,000 people, would be bargain hunters could be armed with axes, spears and swords.

    and the Queen gives thumbs up/down indication of whether or not the bargain hunters can keep what they have fought for.
    Turn Black Friday into something more like The Hunger Games.
    Release the hounds...

  • dr_spyn said:

    RobD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    stodge said:

    Itajai said:


    Wonder what Emily Thornberry would have made of Black Friday

    Well, I can't answer that and I'm sure you're not making any comparison. The points I would make about "Black Friday" are first that it's an imported piece of American culture (same as "Prom Nights"). We have a proud British culture and don't need this constant Americanisation of our lives.

    Second, the good honest British tradition of clawing your neighbour's eyes out for a bargain has a place - it's called Boxing Day. We don't need to have it twice in the same year.

    Third, it illustrates the degree to which we are still wedded to conspicuous consumption yet tainted with the sure-footed knowledge that we are getting a bargain. As we fight for that heavily-discounted gadget without which our lives would no longer be complete, do we ever wonder why the store is selling them at that price and, given the obvious demand, why they couldn't sell them at that price all the time ?

    It's all about "the triumph of the deal" - my gadget is £150 cheaper than it was last week - I've got to get it NOW before the price goes up and I'll stand outside a packed Tesco's and fight complete strangers for it.

    And some claim there are no values left (well, only the heavily discounted ones).

    Perhaps the discounted sale goods could be placed in an colossal arena, with seating for 100,000 people, would be bargain hunters could be armed with axes, spears and swords.

    and the Queen gives thumbs up/down indication of whether or not the bargain hunters can keep what they have fought for.
    Turn Black Friday into something more like The Hunger Games.
    Release the hounds...

    May the odds ever be in your favour.
  • ROFL - BBC posted proof that the licence fee

    a) Doesn't need inflationary increases
    b) Should be halved at a minimum.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3jNgMzCEAEGJa3.jpg
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033

    ROFL - BBC posted proof that the licence fee

    a) Doesn't need inflationary increases
    b) Should be halved at a minimum.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3jNgMzCEAEGJa3.jpg

    Or that it should have been halved 20 years ago ;)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    RobD said:

    The new Tebbit test:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11262132/Lord-Tebbit-announces-new-cricket-test-for-EU-countries.html

    In an interview with BBC Newsnight, Lord Tebbit said: "Well one test I would use is to ask them on which side their fathers or grandfathers or whatever fought in the Second World War. And so you'll find that the Poles and the Czechs and the Slovaks were all on the right side. And so that's a pretty good test isn’t it? Perhaps we'll even manage to teach them to play cricket over the years."
    Seems a bit of an odd test. It would hardly be my fault if my grandfathers fought on the wrong side.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Brent crude closes at $70
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    stodge said:

    Itajai said:


    Wonder what Emily Thornberry would have made of Black Friday

    Well, I can't answer that and I'm sure you're not making any comparison. The points I would make about "Black Friday" are first that it's an imported piece of American culture (same as "Prom Nights"). We have a proud British culture and don't need this constant Americanisation of our lives.

    Second, the good honest British tradition of clawing your neighbour's eyes out for a bargain has a place - it's called Boxing Day. We don't need to have it twice in the same year.

    Third, it illustrates the degree to which we are still wedded to conspicuous consumption yet tainted with the sure-footed knowledge that we are getting a bargain. As we fight for that heavily-discounted gadget without which our lives would no longer be complete, do we ever wonder why the store is selling them at that price and, given the obvious demand, why they couldn't sell them at that price all the time ?

    It's all about "the triumph of the deal" - my gadget is £150 cheaper than it was last week - I've got to get it NOW before the price goes up and I'll stand outside a packed Tesco's and fight complete strangers for it.

    And some claim there are no values left (well, only the heavily discounted ones).

    I lived in the States for five years in the Seventies, and we rather took to Thanksgiving as a holiday.

    It is a rather glorified harvest festival, but a Turkey dinner with pumpkin pie and all the family getting together is a rather nice celebration. Much like Christmas without the commercialism.

    My family kept it up for a few years after our return.

    Those early colonials saw themselves as Englishmen abroad, and so Thankgiving has its roots in English Puritan traditions.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    edited November 2014
    dr_spyn said:

    stodge said:

    Itajai said:


    Wonder what Emily Thornberry would have made of Black Friday

    Well, I can't answer that and I'm sure you're not making any comparison. The points I would make about "Black Friday" are first that it's an imported piece of American culture (same as "Prom Nights"). We have a proud British culture and don't need this constant Americanisation of our lives.

    Second, the good honest British tradition of clawing your neighbour's eyes out for a bargain has a place - it's called Boxing Day. We don't need to have it twice in the same year.

    Third, it illustrates the degree to which we are still wedded to conspicuous consumption yet tainted with the sure-footed knowledge that we are getting a bargain. As we fight for that heavily-discounted gadget without which our lives would no longer be complete, do we ever wonder why the store is selling them at that price and, given the obvious demand, why they couldn't sell them at that price all the time ?

    It's all about "the triumph of the deal" - my gadget is £150 cheaper than it was last week - I've got to get it NOW before the price goes up and I'll stand outside a packed Tesco's and fight complete strangers for it.

    And some claim there are no values left (well, only the heavily discounted ones).

    Perhaps the discounted sale goods could be placed in an colossal arena, with seating for 100,000 people, would be bargain hunters could be armed with axes, spears and swords.

    The Hunger Games, except Panem is Asda/Argos/Tesco etc...

    Edit - already been said!

    The coverage of people treading on their fellow citizens to get to a discount LCD TV chilled me. What has society become? Disgusting and vile, is what it's become.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    KentRising
    "The coverage of people treading on their fellow citizens to get to a discount LCD TV chilled me. What has society become? Disgusting and vile, is what it's become."

    Selfish and greedy, just as the god fearing right always wanted.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916



    [David, w]hilst living in Hemsworth did you ever sample the joys of South Elmsall ?

    This Mirror story helps explain the Labour to UKIP swing in the Yorkshire mining areas:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/next-christmas-jobs-offered-polish-4709994

    Though the Mirror do manage to put an anti-Conservative slant on it.

    I don't know South Elmsall all that well though I did visit briefly a couple of times. There isn't really anything in that article that surprises me much though.
    The Mirror story shows how uncompetitive the UK has become globally and how we have paid ourselves too much for years.

    It also reveals the major errors of the EU, how our benefit system is a disincentive for many to be employed.

    Also many employers know that often a Polish worker has a better work ethic, is more reliable ad more likely to get out of bed on time.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Smarmeron said:

    KentRising
    "The coverage of people treading on their fellow citizens to get to a discount LCD TV chilled me. What has society become? Disgusting and vile, is what it's become."

    Selfish and greedy, just as the god fearing right always wanted.

    People have always been selfish and greedy, especially the plebs. its the only way they can enjoy themselves.
  • Financier said:

    Brent crude closes at $70

    Broken, sleazy Brent Crude on the slide?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2014
    Apparently Nigeria is going to go bankrupt as a result of Brent crude being at $70 or less. Saudis won't be popular in the country.
  • Why isn't there an Asian Friday or a White Friday?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,989


    I lived in the States for five years in the Seventies, and we rather took to Thanksgiving as a holiday.

    It is a rather glorified harvest festival, but a Turkey dinner with pumpkin pie and all the family getting together is a rather nice celebration. Much like Christmas without the commercialism.

    My family kept it up for a few years after our return.

    Those early colonials saw themselves as Englishmen abroad, and so Thankgiving has its roots in English Puritan traditions.

    Apparently the "commercialism" is no more delayed than it is at Christmas. For Boxing Day, read Black Friday. A day of "a nice celebration" followed by urban warfare at the shopping centre.

    Ho hum...

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033

    Why isn't there an Asian Friday or a White Friday?

    What about black Welsh disabled woman trades unionist Friday?
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    RobD said:

    Why isn't there an Asian Friday or a White Friday?

    What about black Welsh disabled woman trades unionist Friday?
    You jest but I'd be surprised if the EU hasn't created such a day.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808
    Troup on Aberdeenshire: etc.

    And there was I beginning to believe those true believers on here predicting the great Con resurgence in Scotland. Moniker? Easter? Scott?
  • We need to send all these bloody obnoxious foreign imports back. There's no place in our culture for Black Friday, Halloween, School Prom Nights, or the ludicrously named American "football" desecrating hallowed English turf!
  • AndyJS said:

    Apparently Nigeria is going to go bankrupt as a result of Brent crude being at $70 or less. Saudis won't be popular in the country.

    That's not the least of their worries:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-30250950
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The Mitchell verdict in full. Happy reading.

    http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2014/4015.html
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Apparently Nigeria is going to go bankrupt as a result of Brent crude being at $70 or less. Saudis won't be popular in the country.

    That's not the least of their worries:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-30250950
    Mmm, they love Islam so much that they blow up a mosque. Makes sense, as Richard Dawkins might say.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808
    Financier said:



    The Mirror story shows how uncompetitive the UK has become globally and how we have paid ourselves too much for years.

    Does that include you too, Financier?

    Or are you worth it?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Financier said:

    Brent crude closes at $70

    Good news for energy importers - us, China, Europe. Bad news for the Middle East, Canada, Australia
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Financier said:



    [David, w]hilst living in Hemsworth did you ever sample the joys of South Elmsall ?

    This Mirror story helps explain the Labour to UKIP swing in the Yorkshire mining areas:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/next-christmas-jobs-offered-polish-4709994

    Though the Mirror do manage to put an anti-Conservative slant on it.

    I don't know South Elmsall all that well though I did visit briefly a couple of times. There isn't really anything in that article that surprises me much though.
    The Mirror story shows how uncompetitive the UK has become globally and how we have paid ourselves too much for years.

    It also reveals the major errors of the EU, how our benefit system is a disincentive for many to be employed.

    Also many employers know that often a Polish worker has a better work ethic, is more reliable ad more likely to get out of bed on time.
    Poland has less than half the GDP per capita than Britain. If you pay more you will get a higher standard of British worker. Good anecdote in a Farewell to Alms about the superiority of British to Polish workers.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Re Tebbitt test, given we've been at war with practically everyone at some point, that means we should simply... Hate all foreigners!
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    rcs1000 said:

    Financier said:

    Brent crude closes at $70

    Good news for energy importers - us, China, Europe. Bad news for the Middle East, Canada, Australia
    And Scotland - or rather a putative independent Scotland. As it is its the UK that takes the straion as we produce oil. I guess on balance though we can be pleased that oil price is lower. There are lower revenues but lower inflation and wider spending power. For the UK the oil industey is not a one man band.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    RobD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    stodge said:

    Itajai said:


    Wonder what Emily Thornberry would have made of Black Friday

    Well, I can't answer that and I'm sure you're not making any comparison. The points I would make about "Black Friday" are first that it's an imported piece of American culture (same as "Prom Nights"). We have a proud British culture and don't need this constant Americanisation of our lives.

    Second, the good honest British tradition of clawing your neighbour's eyes out for a bargain has a place - it's called Boxing Day. We don't need to have it twice in the same year.

    Third, it illustrates the degree to which we are still wedded to conspicuous consumption yet tainted with the sure-footed knowledge that we are getting a bargain. As we fight for that heavily-discounted gadget without which our lives would no longer be complete, do we ever wonder why the store is selling them at that price and, given the obvious demand, why they couldn't sell them at that price all the time ?

    It's all about "the triumph of the deal" - my gadget is £150 cheaper than it was last week - I've got to get it NOW before the price goes up and I'll stand outside a packed Tesco's and fight complete strangers for it.

    And some claim there are no values left (well, only the heavily discounted ones).

    Perhaps the discounted sale goods could be placed in an colossal arena, with seating for 100,000 people, would be bargain hunters could be armed with axes, spears and swords.

    and the Queen gives thumbs up/down indication of whether or not the bargain hunters can keep what they have fought for.
    Turn Black Friday into something more like The Hunger Games.
    Already been done. Venue was the Metrocentre this afternoon.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808
    rcs1000 said:

    Financier said:

    Brent crude closes at $70

    Good news for energy importers - us, China, Europe. Bad news for the Middle East, Canada, Australia
    Won't it be great when it filters through to our petrol and domestic utility costs... Oh, wait....
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    stodge said:


    I lived in the States for five years in the Seventies, and we rather took to Thanksgiving as a holiday.

    It is a rather glorified harvest festival, but a Turkey dinner with pumpkin pie and all the family getting together is a rather nice celebration. Much like Christmas without the commercialism.

    My family kept it up for a few years after our return.

    Those early colonials saw themselves as Englishmen abroad, and so Thankgiving has its roots in English Puritan traditions.

    Apparently the "commercialism" is no more delayed than it is at Christmas. For Boxing Day, read Black Friday. A day of "a nice celebration" followed by urban warfare at the shopping centre.

    Ho hum...

    It was a rather uncommercial festival 35 years ago. It may be different now.

    Smarmeron said:

    KentRising
    "The coverage of people treading on their fellow citizens to get to a discount LCD TV chilled me. What has society become? Disgusting and vile, is what it's become."

    Selfish and greedy, just as the god fearing right always wanted.

    People have always been selfish and greedy, especially the plebs. its the only way they can enjoy themselves.
    Socialism and Communism are as much materialistic philosophies as Capitalism. All of these are focussed on generating or distributing material goods.

    We need to lift our eyes in thanksgiving for a non-materialist philosophy.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    rcs1000 said:

    Financier said:

    Brent crude closes at $70

    Good news for energy importers - us, China, Europe. Bad news for the Middle East, Canada, Australia
    Given that Canadian fracking is one of the causes of the dropping price, it's a bit ironic if they're losing out.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    FalseFlag said:

    Financier said:



    [David, w]hilst living in Hemsworth did you ever sample the joys of South Elmsall ?

    This Mirror story helps explain the Labour to UKIP swing in the Yorkshire mining areas:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/next-christmas-jobs-offered-polish-4709994

    Though the Mirror do manage to put an anti-Conservative slant on it.

    I don't know South Elmsall all that well though I did visit briefly a couple of times. There isn't really anything in that article that surprises me much though.
    The Mirror story shows how uncompetitive the UK has become globally and how we have paid ourselves too much for years.

    It also reveals the major errors of the EU, how our benefit system is a disincentive for many to be employed.

    Also many employers know that often a Polish worker has a better work ethic, is more reliable ad more likely to get out of bed on time.
    Poland has less than half the GDP per capita than Britain. If you pay more you will get a higher standard of British worker. Good anecdote in a Farewell to Alms about the superiority of British to Polish workers.
    err that is a fallacy, you can only pay more if the standard of worker is better trained/more productive, more money wont make an employee better skilled, it'll make him lazier.. mor cash for doing nothing more.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    FalseFlag said:

    Financier said:



    [David, w]hilst living in Hemsworth did you ever sample the joys of South Elmsall ?

    This Mirror story helps explain the Labour to UKIP swing in the Yorkshire mining areas:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/next-christmas-jobs-offered-polish-4709994

    Though the Mirror do manage to put an anti-Conservative slant on it.

    I don't know South Elmsall all that well though I did visit briefly a couple of times. There isn't really anything in that article that surprises me much though.
    The Mirror story shows how uncompetitive the UK has become globally and how we have paid ourselves too much for years.

    It also reveals the major errors of the EU, how our benefit system is a disincentive for many to be employed.

    Also many employers know that often a Polish worker has a better work ethic, is more reliable ad more likely to get out of bed on time.
    Poland has less than half the GDP per capita than Britain. If you pay more you will get a higher standard of British worker. Good anecdote in a Farewell to Alms about the superiority of British to Polish workers.
    So, the simple problem is that British companies pay too little?

    But if what you were saying was true, then the British companies that paid more, and got these (otherwise unemployed) British workers, would be out competing other companies.

    Capitalism would work, and those companies who foolishly hired Poles would go out of business.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    AndyJS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Financier said:

    Brent crude closes at $70

    Good news for energy importers - us, China, Europe. Bad news for the Middle East, Canada, Australia
    Given that Canadian fracking is one of the causes of the dropping price, it's a bit ironic if they're losing out.
    Yes, but Canada has lots of expensive traditional oil production, and high capex, high opex oil sands too.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    rcs1000 said:

    Financier said:

    Brent crude closes at $70

    Good news for energy importers - us, China, Europe. Bad news for the Middle East, Canada, Australia
    Won't it be great when it filters through to our petrol and domestic utility costs... Oh, wait....
    Prices have come down about 10p a litre since July, they will come down a little more in the next few weeks, I'm sure. The weak pound ,and high taxes, means they are unlikely to fall too far.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited November 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    Re Tebbitt test, given we've been at war with practically everyone at some point, that means we should simply... Hate all foreigners!

    Except the Potuguese?

    In defence of Tebbitt (!); he was a pilot and like many other airmen of his generation was very grateful for the airmen of the Polish and Czechoslovakian airforces who were essential to the Battle of Britain.

    I am glad to have Poles and Czechs as countrymen, they are fine people who integrate well.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808



    rcs1000 said:

    Re Tebbitt test, given we've been at war with practically everyone at some point, that means we should simply... Hate all foreigners!

    Except the Potuguese?

    In defence of Tebbitt (!); he was a pilot and like many other airmen of his generation was very grateful for the airmen of the Polish and Czechoslovakian airforces who were essential to the Battle of Britain.

    I am glad to have Poles and Czechs as countrymen, they are fine people who integrate well.
    I am a regular visitor to Czecho and what a fantastic country it is: great beer, attractive countryside and friendly people. The only mystery is why they would want to come here.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    The new Tebbit test:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11262132/Lord-Tebbit-announces-new-cricket-test-for-EU-countries.html

    In an interview with BBC Newsnight, Lord Tebbit said: "Well one test I would use is to ask them on which side their fathers or grandfathers or whatever fought in the Second World War. And so you'll find that the Poles and the Czechs and the Slovaks were all on the right side. And so that's a pretty good test isn’t it? Perhaps we'll even manage to teach them to play cricket over the years."
    Seems a bit of an odd test. It would hardly be my fault if my grandfathers fought on the wrong side.

    It's an absurd test but since Germany Italy and Austria are not the nations 'sending' their migrants and that Russia and the former constituents of the USSR were also on our side then I assume Tebbit is happy to receive immigrants from the former Soviet states and Warsaw Pact countries.
    In terms of economics of course it hardly matters if the immigrant comes from Poland or Germany or Romania, but again we must assume Tebbit thus accepts the economics of it.

    Its also good to see Tebbit expects and values the notion of absorbing immigrants into our culture
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808
    Tomorrow it's the Hennessy at Newbury: Always a great race, with Irish raider Djakadam currently heading the betting. Whilst he could have plenty in hand, it's a big ask of a 5 year old to win one of the most competitive staying handicaps of the season and there might just be a bit of value elsewhere:

    Phillip Hobbs has been in fine form and saddles Fingal Bay. Having had an injury a couple of seasons ago he's still unexposed as a chaser and has many of the credentials - likes soft, will stay - to run well here. A sporting bet at around 8-1.

    Monbeg Dude looks attractively weighted. A horse with a big engine, his weakness is his tendency to clout a couple on the way round. As a Welsh National winner a test of stamina is right up his street and I've had a few quid ew at 20-1. If he were to jump well he should be thereabouts and in my view the booking of Paul Moloney is a positive.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    The new Tebbit test:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11262132/Lord-Tebbit-announces-new-cricket-test-for-EU-countries.html

    In an interview with BBC Newsnight, Lord Tebbit said: "Well one test I would use is to ask them on which side their fathers or grandfathers or whatever fought in the Second World War. And so you'll find that the Poles and the Czechs and the Slovaks were all on the right side. And so that's a pretty good test isn’t it? Perhaps we'll even manage to teach them to play cricket over the years."
    Seems a bit of an odd test. It would hardly be my fault if my grandfathers fought on the wrong side.
    It's an absurd test but since Germany Italy and Austria are not the nations 'sending' their migrants and that Russia and the former constituents of the USSR were also on our side then I assume Tebbit is happy to receive immigrants from the former Soviet states and Warsaw Pact countries.
    In terms of economics of course it hardly matters if the immigrant comes from Poland or Germany or Romania, but again we must assume Tebbit thus accepts the economics of it.

    Its also good to see Tebbit expects and values the notion of absorbing immigrants into our culture

    He calls it the "sins of my fathers, test"
  • Tomorrow it's the Hennessy at Newbury: Always a great race, with Irish raider Djakadam currently heading the betting. Whilst he could have plenty in hand, it's a big ask of a 5 year old to win one of the most competitive staying handicaps of the season and there might just be a bit of value elsewhere:

    Phillip Hobbs has been in fine form and saddles Fingal Bay. Having had an injury a couple of seasons ago he's still unexposed as a chaser and has many of the credentials - likes soft, will stay - to run well here. A sporting bet at around 8-1.

    Monbeg Dude looks attractively weighted. A horse with a big engine, his weakness is his tendency to clout a couple on the way round. As a Welsh National winner a test of stamina is right up his street and I've had a few quid ew at 20-1. If he were to jump well he should be thereabouts and in my view the booking of Paul Moloney is a positive.

    The booking of Paul Moloney is always a positive.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Financier said:



    [David, w]hilst living in Hemsworth did you ever sample the joys of South Elmsall ?

    This Mirror story helps explain the Labour to UKIP swing in the Yorkshire mining areas:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/next-christmas-jobs-offered-polish-4709994

    Though the Mirror do manage to put an anti-Conservative slant on it.

    I don't know South Elmsall all that well though I did visit briefly a couple of times. There isn't really anything in that article that surprises me much though.
    The Mirror story shows how uncompetitive the UK has become globally and how we have paid ourselves too much for years.

    It also reveals the major errors of the EU, how our benefit system is a disincentive for many to be employed.

    Also many employers know that often a Polish worker has a better work ethic, is more reliable ad more likely to get out of bed on time.
    Poland has less than half the GDP per capita than Britain. If you pay more you will get a higher standard of British worker. Good anecdote in a Farewell to Alms about the superiority of British to Polish workers.
    So, the simple problem is that British companies pay too little?

    But if what you were saying was true, then the British companies that paid more, and got these (otherwise unemployed) British workers, would be out competing other companies.

    Capitalism would work, and those companies who foolishly hired Poles would go out of business.

    Quite the opposite, a comparable standard British worker requires a higher wage. Of course the real solution is to bring back slavery.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    another richard - ''now they're selling TVs at a loss to brawling chavs in the middle of the night.''
    Now you have to be careful, only chosen BBC comedy game show participants can use such clever post modern sub-irony in their remarks and certainly not to policemen.

    The real sub-irony is that the target of the mass hysteria (and its useful to be reminded that it does exist) is the wide screen TV when in fact there is absolutely zero worth watching on it.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2014
    Just as a bit of a joke, I put £2 on New Zealand with Betfair yesterday in their Test Match vs Pakistan. I haven't been following it but I'm now being offered a cashout of £30, so things must have moved in New Zealand's favour a fair bit.

    http://www.betfair.com/exchange/cricket/event?id=27284275
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    The new Tebbit test:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11262132/Lord-Tebbit-announces-new-cricket-test-for-EU-countries.html

    In an interview with BBC Newsnight, Lord Tebbit said: "Well one test I would use is to ask them on which side their fathers or grandfathers or whatever fought in the Second World War. And so you'll find that the Poles and the Czechs and the Slovaks were all on the right side. And so that's a pretty good test isn’t it? Perhaps we'll even manage to teach them to play cricket over the years."
    Seems a bit of an odd test. It would hardly be my fault if my grandfathers fought on the wrong side.
    It's an absurd test but since Germany Italy and Austria are not the nations 'sending' their migrants and that Russia and the former constituents of the USSR were also on our side then I assume Tebbit is happy to receive immigrants from the former Soviet states and Warsaw Pact countries.
    In terms of economics of course it hardly matters if the immigrant comes from Poland or Germany or Romania, but again we must assume Tebbit thus accepts the economics of it.

    Its also good to see Tebbit expects and values the notion of absorbing immigrants into our culture
    He calls it the "sins of my fathers, test"

    His original cricket test made sense, but this one is plain bonkers.
  • I need to get my Tebbit Chip updated :)
  • AndyJS said:

    Just as a bit of a joke, I put £2 on New Zealand with Betfair yesterday in their Test Match vs Pakistan. I haven't been following it but I'm now being offered a cashout of £30, so things must have moved in New Zealand's favour a fair bit.

    http://www.betfair.com/exchange/cricket/event?id=27284275

    You must always bet against Pakistan.

    You get two chances of winning - one that they are genuinely beaten and the other that they throw it anyway.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Financier said:

    Brent crude closes at $70

    Good news for energy importers - us, China, Europe. Bad news for the Middle East, Canada, Australia
    Won't it be great when it filters through to our petrol and domestic utility costs... Oh, wait....
    There is a problem that a number of the energy intermediaries are going to face over the next few months. A lot of the oil companies managed to sell future oil production six months ago at values way above the current price. There are millions of barrels of oil that have been sold on to the market which have not yet been delivered and which the energy companies paid over $100 a barrel for. They have to pay that price even though the oil price has now dropped to $70 a barrel.

    Of course they deserve no sympathy as they were playing a game betting that the price would stay high or even increase with all the turmoil in the middle east and they guessed wrong./

    I expect they are going to have a very uncomfortable time over the next few months.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    The new Tebbit test:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11262132/Lord-Tebbit-announces-new-cricket-test-for-EU-countries.html

    In an interview with BBC Newsnight, Lord Tebbit said: "Well one test I would use is to ask them on which side their fathers or grandfathers or whatever fought in the Second World War. And so you'll find that the Poles and the Czechs and the Slovaks were all on the right side. And so that's a pretty good test isn’t it? Perhaps we'll even manage to teach them to play cricket over the years."
    Seems a bit of an odd test. It would hardly be my fault if my grandfathers fought on the wrong side.
    It's an absurd test but since Germany Italy and Austria are not the nations 'sending' their migrants and that Russia and the former constituents of the USSR were also on our side then I assume Tebbit is happy to receive immigrants from the former Soviet states and Warsaw Pact countries.
    In terms of economics of course it hardly matters if the immigrant comes from Poland or Germany or Romania, but again we must assume Tebbit thus accepts the economics of it.

    Its also good to see Tebbit expects and values the notion of absorbing immigrants into our culture

    The countries that he mentioned were not merely allied with us. Their men fought in British uniforms alongside Commonwealth countries.

    My grandfather worked with a lot of Polish miners after the war. He was very happy with them as friends. Their descendants are indistinguishable from other Brits apart from unspellable names.

    If only other migrant communities that arrived a decade or two later were so well integrated!

  • kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    The new Tebbit test:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11262132/Lord-Tebbit-announces-new-cricket-test-for-EU-countries.html

    In an interview with BBC Newsnight, Lord Tebbit said: "Well one test I would use is to ask them on which side their fathers or grandfathers or whatever fought in the Second World War. And so you'll find that the Poles and the Czechs and the Slovaks were all on the right side. And so that's a pretty good test isn’t it? Perhaps we'll even manage to teach them to play cricket over the years."
    Seems a bit of an odd test. It would hardly be my fault if my grandfathers fought on the wrong side.
    It's an absurd test but since Germany Italy and Austria are not the nations 'sending' their migrants and that Russia and the former constituents of the USSR were also on our side then I assume Tebbit is happy to receive immigrants from the former Soviet states and Warsaw Pact countries.
    In terms of economics of course it hardly matters if the immigrant comes from Poland or Germany or Romania, but again we must assume Tebbit thus accepts the economics of it.

    Its also good to see Tebbit expects and values the notion of absorbing immigrants into our culture

    Although amusingly it does mean that he's now presumably backing unlimited Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigration?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Financier said:



    [David, w]hilst living in Hemsworth did you ever sample the joys of South Elmsall ?

    This Mirror story helps explain the Labour to UKIP swing in the Yorkshire mining areas:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/next-christmas-jobs-offered-polish-4709994

    Though the Mirror do manage to put an anti-Conservative slant on it.

    I don't know South Elmsall all that well though I did visit briefly a couple of times. There isn't really anything in that article that surprises me much though.
    The Mirror story shows how uncompetitive the UK has become globally and how we have paid ourselves too much for years.

    It also reveals the major errors of the EU, how our benefit system is a disincentive for many to be employed.

    Also many employers know that often a Polish worker has a better work ethic, is more reliable ad more likely to get out of bed on time.
    Poland has less than half the GDP per capita than Britain. If you pay more you will get a higher standard of British worker. Good anecdote in a Farewell to Alms about the superiority of British to Polish workers.
    So, the simple problem is that British companies pay too little?

    But if what you were saying was true, then the British companies that paid more, and got these (otherwise unemployed) British workers, would be out competing other companies.

    Capitalism would work, and those companies who foolishly hired Poles would go out of business.

    Quite the opposite, a comparable standard British worker requires a higher wage. Of course the real solution is to bring back slavery.
    So, you're saying that British firms are acting rationally, as Polish workers sometimes offer better value for money?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    rcs1000 said:

    Financier said:

    Brent crude closes at $70

    Good news for energy importers - us, China, Europe. Bad news for the Middle East, Canada, Australia
    Won't it be great when it filters through to our petrol and domestic utility costs... Oh, wait....
    There is a problem that a number of the energy intermediaries are going to face over the next few months. A lot of the oil companies managed to sell future oil production six months ago at values way above the current price. There are millions of barrels of oil that have been sold on to the market which have not yet been delivered and which the energy companies paid over $100 a barrel for. They have to pay that price even though the oil price has now dropped to $70 a barrel.

    Of course they deserve no sympathy as they were playing a game betting that the price would stay high or even increase with all the turmoil in the middle east and they guessed wrong./

    I expect they are going to have a very uncomfortable time over the next few months.
    While that's true of the utilities, most petrol retailers (Shell, etc.) don't forward by their oil.

    I met the guy who runs Shell's petrol station network in the UK a few years ago on a trip to Qatar. Nice chap, runs a multi billion pound chain of shops. His business card bore the title "Manager, Shell Retail"
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    No polls?
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Itajai said:

    I distinctly remember Sugar ca 1990 being anything but pro-Labour.

    Interesting how his political evolution from Thatcher's boy to Labour luvvie has mirrored his faltering business fortunes.
    Ach zo mien fuhrer. Zees ees unt eenterasstink ideeya off zee booziness feelur. Das Kapitalist zells the failink booziness fur zee heaps of Euros to zee nituntwittens unt zen, ya? zee halfwitgenstein he buys all zee bildinks he cun lay zee hans on for the meereist pfenninks unt zen rents for das zilly money. Propertyschmopeerty eh?
    Vat a dumpenkopfff sucker iss diss Zucker. Such luck zat he now has ze billion of ze dollars.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    We need to send all these bloody obnoxious foreign imports back. There's no place in our culture for Black Friday, Halloween, School Prom Nights, or the ludicrously named American "football" desecrating hallowed English turf!

    Football, in all its forms, is called football because its played on foot, rather than on horseback. It's thus perfectly sensibly named - just as much as rugby football, for example.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited November 2014
    Transfers from Midlothian East

    LD: 16 to Lab, 13 to Greens, 11 to Con, 10 to SNP, 9 to Ind
    Greens: 73 to SNP, 42 to Ind, 33 to Lab, 17 to Con (SNP takes the lead by 14 votes)
    Con: 100 to Lab, 83 to Ind, 27 to SNP
    Ind: 239 to Lab, 229 to SNP


  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Financier said:

    Brent crude closes at $70

    Good news for energy importers - us, China, Europe. Bad news for the Middle East, Canada, Australia
    Won't it be great when it filters through to our petrol and domestic utility costs... Oh, wait....
    There is a problem that a number of the energy intermediaries are going to face over the next few months. A lot of the oil companies managed to sell future oil production six months ago at values way above the current price. There are millions of barrels of oil that have been sold on to the market which have not yet been delivered and which the energy companies paid over $100 a barrel for. They have to pay that price even though the oil price has now dropped to $70 a barrel.

    Of course they deserve no sympathy as they were playing a game betting that the price would stay high or even increase with all the turmoil in the middle east and they guessed wrong./

    I expect they are going to have a very uncomfortable time over the next few months.
    While that's true of the utilities, most petrol retailers (Shell, etc.) don't forward by their oil.

    I met the guy who runs Shell's petrol station network in the UK a few years ago on a trip to Qatar. Nice chap, runs a multi billion pound chain of shops. His business card bore the title "Manager, Shell Retail"
    Those in trouble are the refineries
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2014
    RodCrosby said:

    No polls?

    Not so far it seems.

    I'm wondering whether to cash out on my Betfair overall majority bet. Is NOM really going to go any lower than 1.43?
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    edited November 2014
    Socrates said:

    We need to send all these bloody obnoxious foreign imports back. There's no place in our culture for Black Friday, Halloween, School Prom Nights, or the ludicrously named American "football" desecrating hallowed English turf!

    Football, in all its forms, is called football because its played on foot, rather than on horseback. It's thus perfectly sensibly named - just as much as rugby football, for example.
    My dear boy the true etymology of the word 'football' comes from the ancient French-Norman, 'fatbill', which loosely translates as 'kick the peasant', a popular pastime of the semi detached castle owners of the time. Eventually the peasant would inevitably become decapitated, or 'plebed' in the French-Norman, and the rest as they say is history.
This discussion has been closed.