Have you never heard of the 30 years war? How many christians have killed christians in the name of christianity?
If you have to go back to the 17th Century to find an equivalent, you know you're in bad shape.
Just look on WW2 . All sides claimed God was on their side..
The Nazis and Communists certainly didn't.
Wehrmacht belt buckle motto: Gott mit uns.
And you might like to look up the gottglauebige believers.
Gott mit uns was a longstanding motto on uniforms of the Prussian Army and subsequently Imperial Germany. It's like Dieu et mon Droit on UK heraldry. Bugger all to do with the Nazis
Hardly any European immigration pre 2001, there whole flawed, http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/press-release/395, report really highlighted the difference between third world and European immigration.
European migration has been a minority post-2001, and assuming you mean the common meaning for "third world" being "developing countries", that applies to half of Europe.
What proportion of immigration was EEA for the 20 years befrore 2001, and what is the proportion post 2001? Europe is solely first and second world.
A minority in both cases.
If you're using the meaning of "third world" to mean "alignment during the Cold War", rather than income levels, how is that relevant to the contribution of their migrants? Swedish and Irish immigrants are from the third world on that basis.
Assuming that is all true (I'm not suggesting it isn't) then why would immigrants 2001-2014 deliver c.£20bn, whereas immigrants 1995-2014 take c.£110bn. This implies that those who arrived between 1995 and 2001 have taken c.£130bn (net).
Completely implausible unless some statistical chicanery has taken place.
You're correct. I just checked the data. The 1995-2011 panel is the net effect of ALL migrants, including those that came before 1995 for those years. The 2001-2011 panel included just those who arrived after 2001 for those years.
Ok, now that I can believe. The 1995 figures would includes decades of immigration from (primarily) commonwealth countries, many of whom will have been pensioners for a very long time.
Indeed.
Which is why Socrates throwing around big numbers and using them to call migration a "drain" makes him look silly.
Using the total contribution of all migrants to the UK, finding that they a drain, and using that data to call migration a drain makes me look silly? Riiiiight....
Neither of those definitions say anything above "love", or "unconditional", or "absolute"/tendentious
The definition you quote is wrong. '-phile' means 'love', not 'on balance I think it might be the lesser of two evils'.
I'm glad you feel qualified to argue with the Oxford dictionary about word definitions, I dont feel so qualified myself.
Given the increasing scepticism about the competence of Oxford educated politicians, don't you think a similar degree of doubt should be employed regarding Oxford lexicographers?
Have you never heard of the 30 years war? How many christians have killed christians in the name of christianity?
If you have to go back to the 17th Century to find an equivalent, you know you're in bad shape.
Just look on WW2 . All sides claimed God was on their side..
The Nazis and Communists certainly didn't.
I think you'll find that the Wehrmacht (Heer to be pedantic) belt buckles all had 'Gott Mit Uns' stamped on them actually.
Sure it's an old historical German Army slogan, the SS I am guessing didn't have that.
Trying to argue that the Nazis were animated by love of God and Christianity is one of the more simple-minded arguments I've come across. The 20th century will be remembered as the century of battles to the death between those death cults known as Communism, Nazism and Fascism, though Franco in Spain (and probably also Petain's France) are the dreadful exceptions.
Either way we should have learnt by now that mixing religion and politics and allowing death cults to take root in our society are not good ideas.
If the cost-benefits of the deal on the table aren't acceptable to the British people, we don't take it. This really isn't difficult.
The British people want a strong economy and jobs. They also, mostly, want a reduction in EU immigration. In the real world, those are in part contradictory aims, which have to be traded off against each other. Different people will see the trade-off differently - personally I'd put the free market in services as massively more important, others will disagree. But there's no escaping the trade-off, as the Swiss are discovering, and it is disingenuous to pretend we can have 'full control of our borders' with no downside.
I'm not saying there won't be some trade-offs and difficult choices to make. Of course there will, we all know that. Perhaps we might have to accept 80,000 a year net immigration, rather than (as some would prefer) 20,000 a year. That's for the British electorate to decide.
But I fundamentally disagree with you that a balance can't be found between open-doors free migration and a liberal approach to global trade in goods and services. That's a false choice.
Neither of those definitions say anything above "love", or "unconditional", or "absolute"/tendentious
The definition you quote is wrong. '-phile' means 'love', not 'on balance I think it might be the lesser of two evils'.
I'm glad you feel qualified to argue with the Oxford dictionary about word definitions, I dont feel so qualified myself.
Given the increasing scepticism about the competence of Oxford educated politicians, don't you think a similar degree of doubt should be employed regarding Oxford lexicographers?
noun 1. a person who admires Europe, Europeans, or the European Union adjective 2. marked by or possessing admiration for Europe, Europeans, or the European Union
So what word would you use to describe those advocating the "in" side if we had a debate, seeing that you reject the OED's definition?
I don't see the need for simplistic labels, especially ones which are misleading. There's a big difference between the position of the LibDem friends of mine whom I mentioned, whom one could reasonably characterise as 'lovers of' or 'enthusiasts for' the EU as an institution, and those who don't have any emotional attachment to or ideological enthusiasm for the EU but think that, on balance, it is in the UK's interests to remain In.
Maybe it's totally Macchiavellian! Let Scotland ramp up a debt and suffer the consequences.
Mike - this is a BIG issue. Thread worthy. SCOTLAND CAN BORROW. And they're having a 'who can be the leftiest' competion within and between parties right now. Bodes very ill. What happens when they go on the inevitable 'borrow n spend' binge? I don't think England is really up for a bailout any more. This will drive separation faster with rocket boosters.
Have you never heard of the 30 years war? How many christians have killed christians in the name of christianity?
If you have to go back to the 17th Century to find an equivalent, you know you're in bad shape.
Just look on WW2 . All sides claimed God was on their side..
The Nazis and Communists certainly didn't.
I think you'll find that the Wehrmacht (Heer to be pedantic) belt buckles all had 'Gott Mit Uns' stamped on them actually.
Sure it's an old historical German Army slogan, the SS I am guessing didn't have that.
Trying to argue that the Nazis were animated by love of God and Christianity is one of the more simple-minded arguments I've come across. The 20th century will be remembered as the century of battles to the death between those death cults known as Communism, Nazism and Fascism, though Franco in Spain (and probably also Petain's France) are the dreadful exceptions.
Either way we should have learnt by now that mixing religion and politics and allowing death cults to take root in our society are not good ideas.
Edit: I meant to say "atheistic death cults" and that Franco and Petain were the exceptions since while they were in favour of death for their enemies, they were anything but atheists.
So what word would you use to describe those advocating the "in" side if we had a debate, seeing that you reject the OED's definition?
I don't see the need for simplistic labels, especially ones which are misleading. There's a big difference between the position of the LibDem friends of mine whom I mentioned, whom one could reasonably characterise as 'lovers of' or 'enthusiasts for' the EU as an institution, and those who don't have any emotional attachment to or ideological enthusiasm for the EU but think that, on balance, it is the UK's interests to remain In.
Of course there's a difference between the extremists and the moderates in any side of any debate. But the basic difference here is those who think we should stay in the EU and those who think we should leave the EU. It is useful to have shorthand terms for each side of that. If you'd rather we use "pro-Europeans" or "Eurosupporters" over "Europhiles", then fine, but I'm going to use "Europhile" until a better term is suggested.
Neither of those definitions say anything above "love", or "unconditional", or "absolute"/tendentious
The definition you quote is wrong. '-phile' means 'love', not 'on balance I think it might be the lesser of two evils'.
I'm glad you feel qualified to argue with the Oxford dictionary about word definitions, I dont feel so qualified myself.
I feel eminently qualified, since by the definitions you quote most Europhiles are also Eurosceptics.
So what word would you use to describe those advocating the "in" side if we had a debate, seeing that you reject the OED's definition?
BOIers vs BOOers
[ugly, but reflects the nuance that those on each side are looking for - or should be looking for - the net benefit (or otherwise) rather than ignoring the fact that the EU has positives as well as negatives (or vice versa)]
Appetizer until the Ashcroft poll: Survation Camborne&Redruth: UKIP 33, CON 28, LAB 22, LD 7
After naming candidates: CON 34, UKIP 28, LAB 18, LD 13
Do UKIP have a candidate there yet ? Seems a little unfair if they kicked out Mr Evans, but haven't replaced him yet. Its pretty dubious if they have replaced him and he barely has his/her legs under the deck and no real name recognition.
Maybe it's totally Macchiavellian! Let Scotland ramp up a debt and suffer the consequences.
Mike - this is a BIG issue. Thread worthy. SCOTLAND CAN BORROW. And they're having a 'who can be the leftiest' competion within and between parties right now. Bodes very ill.
Would have been better to have Scotland be independent with their own currency, rather than buggering things up from the inside with Scottish borrowing, underwritten by the UK economy.
That said, it may give the Scottish Tories a flag of sensible economics to rally around.
A free market in services does not require the right to permanent migration: just that people can travel to the place to carry out the work contract before returning. That's perfectly consistent with project-dependent work permits. CETA is a good example of how this would work. It includes better ease of movement for labour, but not free movement.
Any form of work permit means bureaucracy, delay and uncertainty. Would the UK - for which services are massively more important than for our EU friends - really want that?
Again, it all depends on what system of bureaucracy you have. When I work in the UAE, it is a very easy process. When I work in Nigeria, it's much more problematic. In terms of the EU, we should probably have a very simple visa on arrival process for short term business visits, with applications in advance for year-long projects. Neither need be a major impediment to business.
What would be really funny is if UKIP were to lose Thanet South and win Doncaster North
Poor Farage. The man who finished third in a two horse race last time.
Be just about the best result as far as I am concerned. UKIP winning a good number of seats but Farage not being one of them would force the party to deal with the cult of personality that bobs to the surface way too often.
I imagine Farage will be comfortably ahead in Thanet South. UKIP were 2% ahead in a Ashcroft poll before Farage announced he was standing there.
That was before Repatriation Reckless' vile comments.
Tactical anti UKIP voting will see Farage out on his arse.
This vile comment?
‘Well, I think in the near term we’d have to have a transitional period, and I think we should probably allow people who are currently here to have a work permit at least for a fixed period.’
Thanet South isn't as good for Farage as some commentators seem to think; the reason he was ahead there previously was because of an even divide among support for the other parties.
So what word would you use to describe those advocating the "in" side if we had a debate, seeing that you reject the OED's definition?
I don't see the need for simplistic labels, especially ones which are misleading. There's a big difference between the position of the LibDem friends of mine whom I mentioned, whom one could reasonably characterise as 'lovers of' or 'enthusiasts for' the EU as an institution, and those who don't have any emotional attachment to or ideological enthusiasm for the EU but think that, on balance, it is in the UK's interests to remain In.
I think it's less a love of the EU, per say, and more a love of internationalism and detestation of nationalism. The same people tend to be big fans of the UN, and global forms of governance. It's a totem.
I can lose count of the number of people, who are my age/background and many are my friends, who feel the nation state is a totally obsolete and redundant concept, and even dangerous. Something to be overcome and chipped away at by any means possible, because it leads to petty mindedness, conflict, racism and war.
I don't discuss this much with them, because it drives me mad. I find it difficult not to see it as anything other than treasonous. It strikes me as ungrateful, disrespectful and destructive. The UK (or the home countries in it, if you prefer) is a wonderful and beautiful country, that has its own unique culture, heritage and values, of which we should all be very proud (without being uncritical).
I would always put our interests first, but that doesn't mean selfishly screwing over the rest of humanity just to our advantage. It's in the same way I'd prioritise friends and families over strangers, whilst wishing strangers well and helping them where i can.
Thanet South isn't as good for Farage as some commentators seem to think; the reason he was ahead there previously was because of an even divide among support for the other parties.
What would be really funny is if UKIP were to lose Thanet South and win Doncaster North
Poor Farage. The man who finished third in a two horse race last time.
Be just about the best result as far as I am concerned. UKIP winning a good number of seats but Farage not being one of them would force the party to deal with the cult of personality that bobs to the surface way too often.
I've been told that UKIP's private polling shows him winning quite easily.
I think it will be the most bet on seat at the election.
So difficult to call without Ms Sandys standing again
Appetizer until the Ashcroft poll: Survation Camborne&Redruth: UKIP 33, CON 28, LAB 22, LD 7
After naming candidates: CON 34, UKIP 28, LAB 18, LD 13
Do UKIP have a candidate there yet ?
Derek Elliot according to survation
Well they dropped the last candidate less than a month ago, so its not a big surprise this new guy doesn't have much name recognition, to the extent that it makes it almost meaningless at this stage.
I imagine Farage will be comfortably ahead in Thanet South. UKIP were 2% ahead in a Ashcroft poll before Farage announced he was standing there.
That was before Repatriation Reckless' vile comments.
Tactical anti UKIP voting will see Farage out on his arse.
This vile comment?
‘Well, I think in the near term we’d have to have a transitional period, and I think we should probably allow people who are currently here to have a work permit at least for a fixed period.’
Nasty
Almost like a sexually explicit joke at the expense of dead South African women
Maybe it's totally Macchiavellian! Let Scotland ramp up a debt and suffer the consequences.
Mike - this is a BIG issue. Thread worthy. SCOTLAND CAN BORROW. And they're having a 'who can be the leftiest' competion within and between parties right now. Bodes very ill.
Would have been better to have Scotland be independent with their own currency, rather than buggering things up from the inside with Scottish borrowing, underwritten by the UK economy.
That said, it may give the Scottish Tories a flag of sensible economics to rally around.
I can't believe they proposed it. Really. It is clearly for me the most headline worthy part of the whole Smith Commission. I hope Dave thanks them for their work and just leaves the ability to borrow out of the legislation. It is batshit crazy to let Scotland borrow independently, knowing ful lwell England will be obliged to backstop the loans. It makes final independnce a certainty in my view now. WTF were they thinking?
@LordAshcroft: My latest battleground research - plus bonus polls in Doncaster North, Sheffield Hallam and Thanet South - out today at 1pm on @ConHome
It's absolutely disgraceful that Lord Ashcroft is publishing this polling at 1:00pm. Has the man no sense of shame - What a way to spoil a decent luncheon !!
Unforgivable - Polling should by law only be published outwith reasonable munching times.
@Socrates, as you're here, can I just make one final point about the EIB and loan disbursements.
I suspect one reason why the UK was in fifth place last year is that there is simply much better credit availability in the UK than in the Eurozone. QE, as you have rightly observed, has pushed borrowing costs down for UK firms, and that will almost certainly be true for infrastructure projects too. If the EIB is offering 4.5% for 10 years for your new bridge, and a syndicated loan from private sector lenders was at 4.25%, why would you go to the EIB?
I'd also point out that loans from the EIB are hardly 'free'. The EIB was profitable throughout the GFC and Eurozone crises. The EIB borrows from the private sector and lends to infrastructure projects that meet certain criteria.
Finally, there really is no reason for the EIB to exist any more. You can make a case that - post the fall of the Berlin Wall - there was a great deal of need for infrastructure projects in Eastern Europe - and a government backed entity was needed to make cheap loans to (say) a Polish state to enable it to upgrade its water supply. That need no longer exists, and with plenty of funding available directly from banks and capital markets, the implicit subsidy the EIB recieves is unnecessary and distorts the capital allocation process.
As we are the (joint) largest shareholder in the EIB, we should be pushing for its privatization. Given it makes €2.5bn/year in profits, there is no reason why it couldn't be sold for €25bn or so, giving us a healthy (€4bn or so) profit. (And, frankly, given the budget deficits of Spain and Italy and France, you'd think they'd be up for a sale too.)
I read this article on him back in August. I am quite fascinated by enigmas, and it seems he was never given a proper chance to fulfil his talent by the selectors. Such a tragedy
Have you never heard of the 30 years war? How many christians have killed christians in the name of christianity?
If you have to go back to the 17th Century to find an equivalent, you know you're in bad shape.
Just look on WW2 . All sides claimed God was on their side..
The Nazis and Communists certainly didn't.
I think you'll find that the Wehrmacht (Heer to be pedantic) belt buckles all had 'Gott Mit Uns' stamped on them actually.
Sure it's an old historical German Army slogan, the SS I am guessing didn't have that.
Trying to argue that the Nazis were animated by love of God and Christianity is one of the more simple-minded arguments I've come across. The 20th century will be remembered as the century of battles to the death between those death cults known as Communism, Nazism and Fascism, though Franco in Spain (and probably also Petain's France) are the dreadful exceptions.
Either way we should have learnt by now that mixing religion and politics and allowing death cults to take root in our society are not good ideas.
Edit: I meant to say "atheistic death cults" and that Franco and Petain were the exceptions since while they were in favour of death for their enemies, they were anything but atheists.
But the Nazis weren't (sort of) atheists. They had smething called Godbelieving - the Gottglauebig cult.
Appetizer until the Ashcroft poll: Survation Camborne&Redruth: UKIP 33, CON 28, LAB 22, LD 7
After naming candidates: CON 34, UKIP 28, LAB 18, LD 13
Do UKIP have a candidate there yet ? Seems a little unfair if they kicked out Mr Evans, but haven't replaced him yet. Its pretty dubious if they have replaced him and he barely has his/her legs under the deck and no real name recognition.
You do know WHY Evans isn't the UKIP candidate any more, don't you?
Jailed for animal cruelty. Namely, the death of over two hundred sheep. To which he pleaded guilty a week after being selected as the UKIP candidate in Camborne and Redruth...
I imagine Farage will be comfortably ahead in Thanet South. UKIP were 2% ahead in a Ashcroft poll before Farage announced he was standing there.
That was before Repatriation Reckless' vile comments.
Tactical anti UKIP voting will see Farage out on his arse.
The problem with suggested anti-UKIP tactical voting is this:
Lab and Lib D supporters tend to hate UKIP but they also tend to hate the Tories.
In Rochester, it seems that more Lab/LD supporters were willing to vote tactically against the Tories than against UKIP. Would expect the same in S Thanet
Fourteen Somali men guilty of running Bristol child sex ring
Fourteen Somali men have been convicted of running an inner city sex ring that involved the abuse, rape and prostitution of teenage British girls, it can be reported for the first time. Victims as young as 13 were preyed upon, sexually abused and passed around the men's friends for money in Bristol.
'People tell me they have heard about Rochdale and Oxford and see it as something which happens elsewhere to other people, but it is happening in Birmingham, it's happening everywhere,'
These immigration figures are the highest compliment the UK could be paid, people voting with their feet. The surest way to collapse them is to vote in EdM's Labour and kill UK job creation.
I have a sneaking feeling Danny will narrowly survive. No evidence for this at all except that voters in recent years seem on the whole to be quite flattered by having high profile senior Cabinet ministers to represent them.
A free market in services does not require the right to permanent migration: just that people can travel to the place to carry out the work contract before returning. That's perfectly consistent with project-dependent work permits. CETA is a good example of how this would work. It includes better ease of movement for labour, but not free movement.
Any form of work permit means bureaucracy, delay and uncertainty. Would the UK - for which services are massively more important than for our EU friends - really want that?
Again, it all depends on what system of bureaucracy you have. When I work in the UAE, it is a very easy process. When I work in Nigeria, it's much more problematic. In terms of the EU, we should probably have a very simple visa on arrival process for short term business visits, with applications in advance for year-long projects. Neither need be a major impediment to business.
I would point out that only 11.5% of people in the UAE are Emititis - are you sure you want to copy their immigration controls?
Appetizer until the Ashcroft poll: Survation Camborne&Redruth: UKIP 33, CON 28, LAB 22, LD 7
After naming candidates: CON 34, UKIP 28, LAB 18, LD 13
Do UKIP have a candidate there yet ? Seems a little unfair if they kicked out Mr Evans, but haven't replaced him yet. Its pretty dubious if they have replaced him and he barely has his/her legs under the deck and no real name recognition.
You do know WHY Evans isn't the UKIP candidate any more, don't you?
Jailed for animal cruelty. Namely, the death of over two hundred sheep. To which he pleaded guilty a week after being selected as the UKIP candidate in Camborne and Redruth...
Yes, I know that. I made no judgement about Mr Evans's merits or lack there of. I was indicating that a poll which is looking at, in effect, at the name recognition value of the candidate is completely worthless when the candidate changed less than a month ago.
A free market in services does not require the right to permanent migration: just that people can travel to the place to carry out the work contract before returning. That's perfectly consistent with project-dependent work permits. CETA is a good example of how this would work. It includes better ease of movement for labour, but not free movement.
Any form of work permit means bureaucracy, delay and uncertainty. Would the UK - for which services are massively more important than for our EU friends - really want that?
Again, it all depends on what system of bureaucracy you have. When I work in the UAE, it is a very easy process. When I work in Nigeria, it's much more problematic. In terms of the EU, we should probably have a very simple visa on arrival process for short term business visits, with applications in advance for year-long projects. Neither need be a major impediment to business.
I would point out that only 11.5% of people in the UAE are Emititis - are you sure you want to copy their immigration controls?
Have you never heard of the 30 years war? How many christians have killed christians in the name of christianity?
If you have to go back to the 17th Century to find an equivalent, you know you're in bad shape.
Just look on WW2 . All sides claimed God was on their side..
The Nazis and Communists certainly didn't.
I think you'll find that the Wehrmacht (Heer to be pedantic) belt buckles all had 'Gott Mit Uns' stamped on them actually.
Sure it's an old historical German Army slogan, the SS I am guessing didn't have that.
Trying to argue that the Nazis were animated by love of God and Christianity is one of the more simple-minded arguments I've come across. The 20th century will be remembered as the century of battles to the death between those death cults known as Communism, Nazism and Fascism, though Franco in Spain (and probably also Petain's France) are the dreadful exceptions.
Either way we should have learnt by now that mixing religion and politics and allowing death cults to take root in our society are not good ideas.
Edit: I meant to say "atheistic death cults" and that Franco and Petain were the exceptions since while they were in favour of death for their enemies, they were anything but atheists.
But the Nazis weren't (sort of) atheists. They had smething called Godbelieving - the Gottglauebig cult.
Similar to the recent Eckglauebig cult seen in Northern Britain.
If UKIP vetting missed Evans' little, er, local difficulty, it does make me wonder what other horror candidates are going to crawl out the woodwork for them next spring.
Should be fun though. As "ashen-faced" Ron Knee, er, Nigel Farage has to explain away another colourful character for another news cycle....
A free market in services does not require the right to permanent migration: just that people can travel to the place to carry out the work contract before returning. That's perfectly consistent with project-dependent work permits. CETA is a good example of how this would work. It includes better ease of movement for labour, but not free movement.
Any form of work permit means bureaucracy, delay and uncertainty. Would the UK - for which services are massively more important than for our EU friends - really want that?
Again, it all depends on what system of bureaucracy you have. When I work in the UAE, it is a very easy process. When I work in Nigeria, it's much more problematic. In terms of the EU, we should probably have a very simple visa on arrival process for short term business visits, with applications in advance for year-long projects. Neither need be a major impediment to business.
I would point out that only 11.5% of people in the UAE are Emititis - are you sure you want to copy their immigration controls?
Appetizer until the Ashcroft poll: Survation Camborne&Redruth: UKIP 33, CON 28, LAB 22, LD 7
After naming candidates: CON 34, UKIP 28, LAB 18, LD 13
Do UKIP have a candidate there yet ? Seems a little unfair if they kicked out Mr Evans, but haven't replaced him yet. Its pretty dubious if they have replaced him and he barely has his/her legs under the deck and no real name recognition.
You do know WHY Evans isn't the UKIP candidate any more, don't you?
Jailed for animal cruelty. Namely, the death of over two hundred sheep. To which he pleaded guilty a week after being selected as the UKIP candidate in Camborne and Redruth...
Yes, I know that. I made no judgement about Mr Evans's merits or lack there of. I was indicating that a poll which is looking at, in effect, at the name recognition value of the candidate is completely worthless when the candidate changed less than a month ago.
Been a lot of coverage here in the south west. Not exactly done UKIP any favours...
EDIT: And I hope we can agree that his being in jail is rather a lack of merit?
Will George Osborne, as part of the legislation to deliver the Vow, accept that the UK chancellor will no longer have final control of the UK's spending and borrowing? Because that is what the Smith Commission just proposed.
I'm afraid that the only things Politically/Religiously* organised Muslims want is total separation for themselves, first; then later, total control of the body politic that they inhabit.
And I'm amazed and not a little bewildered that other normally good and sane people just don't get it.
*Politically/Religiously = in Islam there is no difference.
I'm afraid that's ignorant nonsense. I could rip your argument to shreds on several counts, but you could start learning from your comment 'Muslims want,' as if the followers are a homogenous lump rather than a disparate faith comprising many cultures and countries. Even a political analysis will show you how 'Muslim' is fighting 'Muslim' in a kaleidoscope of contradiction. I wonder if you have ever really studied Islam. Do you even know that 80% of Muslims are non-Arabic?
I have many Muslim friends, most of whom are British Muslims, who would not identify themselves with your remarks and who do not see themselves as political. They follow the prescribed prayers and try to lead good lives, whilst loving this country. That there are a significantly vocal minority, sometimes in positions of leadership, is equally beyond dispute.
I could go on but there's not much point. My hopes of educating some of the right-wingers on pb.com about Islam are very slim.
That reminded me of something that happened at my son's school yesterday
Bearing in mind the school has to date been proud of its Christian ethos (and this is made clear to any prospective student / parents).
To avoid any potential upset "the 12 days of Christmas" is now sung as "the 12 days of Winter".......
I should make abundantly clear that this is not at the request of any Muslim parent but a decision by the school staff
Still absolutely bonkers though and no doubt could lead to resentment.
Appetizer until the Ashcroft poll: Survation Camborne&Redruth: UKIP 33, CON 28, LAB 22, LD 7
After naming candidates: CON 34, UKIP 28, LAB 18, LD 13
Do UKIP have a candidate there yet ? Seems a little unfair if they kicked out Mr Evans, but haven't replaced him yet. Its pretty dubious if they have replaced him and he barely has his/her legs under the deck and no real name recognition.
You do know WHY Evans isn't the UKIP candidate any more, don't you?
Jailed for animal cruelty. Namely, the death of over two hundred sheep. To which he pleaded guilty a week after being selected as the UKIP candidate in Camborne and Redruth...
Yes, I know that. I made no judgement about Mr Evans's merits or lack there of. I was indicating that a poll which is looking at, in effect, at the name recognition value of the candidate is completely worthless when the candidate changed less than a month ago.
Been a lot of coverage here in the south west. Not exactly done UKIP any favours...
EDIT: And I hope we can agree that his being in jail is rather a lack of merit?
Obviously, but as I noted I wasn't passing judgement ;-) Since I dont live in the South West, or currently the UK I have probably been spared some of the finer details ;-)
Despite the no favours, you will notice they were substantial ahead in the party poll and only dropped behind when they were testing using the name of a candidate that doesn't exist,
Fourteen Somali men guilty of running Bristol child sex ring
Fourteen Somali men have been convicted of running an inner city sex ring that involved the abuse, rape and prostitution of teenage British girls, it can be reported for the first time. Victims as young as 13 were preyed upon, sexually abused and passed around the men's friends for money in Bristol.
'People tell me they have heard about Rochdale and Oxford and see it as something which happens elsewhere to other people, but it is happening in Birmingham, it's happening everywhere,'
Maybe, just maybe, we should have a national police investigation and inquiry?
In case you have not noticed these people have been found out arrested and convicted. There are investigations taking place, including one actually into the police. Its pretty pathetic from you pretending nothing is happening when the one thing preventing the start of a major investigation into this is the demands of the victims themselves.
Why do you say a 2/1 shot is 25% when you take out the bookies margin?
(and the same for a 5/1 shot and 10%)
Monstrous overrounds
Taking a typical constituency with such a price, Dewsbuy, you have best prices of Labour at 4/9, the Conservatives at 1/2, UKIP at 20/1, the Lib Dems at 100/1 and the Greens at 200/1. That gives an overround of 8%. I accept I got a bit overenthusiastic with my discounting!
I'm afraid that the only things Politically/Religiously* organised Muslims want is total separation for themselves, first; then later, total control of the body politic that they inhabit.
And I'm amazed and not a little bewildered that other normally good and sane people just don't get it.
*Politically/Religiously = in Islam there is no difference.
I'm afraid that's ignorant nonsense. I could rip your argument to shreds on several counts, but you could start learning from your comment 'Muslims want,' as if the followers are a homogenous lump rather than a disparate faith comprising many cultures and countries. Even a political analysis will show you how 'Muslim' is fighting 'Muslim' in a kaleidoscope of contradiction. I wonder if you have ever really studied Islam. Do you even know that 80% of Muslims are non-Arabic?
I have many Muslim friends, most of whom are British Muslims, who would not identify themselves with your remarks and who do not see themselves as political. They follow the prescribed prayers and try to lead good lives, whilst loving this country. That there are a significantly vocal minority, sometimes in positions of leadership, is equally beyond dispute.
I could go on but there's not much point. My hopes of educating some of the right-wingers on pb.com about Islam are very slim.
That reminded me of something that happened at my son's school yesterday
Bearing in mind the school has to date been proud of its Christian ethos (and this is made clear to any prospective student / parents).
To avoid any potential upset "the 12 days of Christmas" is now sung as "the 12 days of Winter".......
I should make abundantly clear that this is not at the request of any Muslim parent but a decision by the school staff
Still absolutely bonkers though and no doubt could lead to resentment.
Huzzah for Virgin, they run the West Coast franchise, and it is bloody lovely.
TSE - What are your views on HS2?
Not a fan.
I'm a frequent train user and the money can be spent better elsewhere.
A better idea would be MagLev, cutting the journey time from London to Manchester to about 40 minutes. Since they had one at Birmingham Airport from 1984 to 1995 we ought to be able to build one 30 years later.
I know I am not a neutral source, but the Daily Politics is like an open goal for UKIP.. Mark Pritchard & John O'Farrell crossing them over while Farage nods them home
I'm having a conversation with myself on this Scottish borrowing idiocy!
The BIG issue of our age is deficits and debt. The one thing our governing coalition wants to big up is Labour's apparent willingness, nay desire, to wreak their destruction on our national finances all over again. We have a welfare state we can't afford. All other policy areas are dependent on the control of tax/spend/borrow. And yet, and yet.....we are proposing to let Scotland borrow. It is insane.
Are any of the top finance / business columnists reading? Ambrose? Jeremy? Alister? Robert? Dear lord please can we put a stop to this monstrosity? This is much the most important thing in the news today. It will destroy the UK for sure.
Sturgeon still refuses to accept Scots voters decision to vote No in the Indy Referendum just two months ago, still peddling the politics of division. Twitter Scotsman @TheScotsman 3 mins3 minutes ago New powers package 'disappointing' & means 'continued Westminster rule', says Nicola Sturgeon: http://bit.ly/1vnHOQn
Jackson Carlaw MSP @JacksonMSP · 24m 24 minutes ago Bitter, brittle, boorish performance from @NicolaSturgeon . A personal low, humiliation even #smithcommission
The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
The Dutch have made the same mistakes we have. Their mentality of "tolerance" has been applied even to those that are intolerant and not integrating. The result is segregation socially, and now, apparently, politically. Will the left be happy with themselves when we have an Islamist parliamentary party in the UK, supporting bans on abortion, the revocation of gay marriage, and second class status for women? Left-wingers usually claim it's just a matter of time, and integration will happen. Well, please show me one example of a country that has had a large Muslim minority and has successfully integrated them fully, or even mostly.
Ban on abortion? Revocation of gay "marriage"?
Where do I put my cross on the ballot paper?
A perfect example of how extremist Christians criticising extremist Muslims is laughable. I look forward to the day when neither religion has any sway over British politics.
Maybe it's totally Macchiavellian! Let Scotland ramp up a debt and suffer the consequences.
Mike - this is a BIG issue. Thread worthy. SCOTLAND CAN BORROW. And they're having a 'who can be the leftiest' competion within and between parties right now. Bodes very ill.
Would have been better to have Scotland be independent with their own currency, rather than buggering things up from the inside with Scottish borrowing, underwritten by the UK economy.
That said, it may give the Scottish Tories a flag of sensible economics to rally around.
I can't believe they proposed it. Really. It is clearly for me the most headline worthy part of the whole Smith Commission. I hope Dave thanks them for their work and just leaves the ability to borrow out of the legislation. It is batshit crazy to let Scotland borrow independently, knowing ful lwell England will be obliged to backstop the loans. It makes final independnce a certainty in my view now. WTF were they thinking?
The Commission says - ''To balance this increased financial responsibility, the Parliament will be given increased borrowing powers, to be agreed with the UK Government, to support capital investment and ensure budgetary stability''
'to be agreed' . 'capital investment' . Capital projects take several years to complete so some borrowing is inevitable.
The BBC report -- ''The lynchpin of all this is what the Commission calls the fiscal framework for the new devolution, which includes a number of principles. Perhaps the most important is that at the precise moment that the new powers are devolved, Scotland's budget and the UK's budget should neither be bigger or smaller as a result of this transfer to Holyrood of new spending and taxing powers.''
The more that is devolved then the more EVEL becomes necessary. All of this is a result of the original devolution. Once the purpose of that failed and Labour were replaced by the SNP as the govt then it was inevitable that there would be more devolution. We have avoided one crisis and the latest news on the oil price fron will probably keep a return of independence damands away for some considerable time.
Comments
And you might like to look up the gottglauebige believers.
Lab Gain Hallam, and Lib Dems somehow hold Gordon :P
Either way we should have learnt by now that mixing religion and politics and allowing death cults to take root in our society are not good ideas.
I expect Clegg's name to be a bonus for the Yellows in Hallam.
But I fundamentally disagree with you that a balance can't be found between open-doors free migration and a liberal approach to global trade in goods and services. That's a false choice.
It can and it will.
Collins Dictionary http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/europhile
noun
1. a person who admires Europe, Europeans, or the European Union
adjective
2. marked by or possessing admiration for Europe, Europeans, or the European Union
Mike - this is a BIG issue. Thread worthy. SCOTLAND CAN BORROW. And they're having a 'who can be the leftiest' competion within and between parties right now. Bodes very ill. What happens when they go on the inevitable 'borrow n spend' binge? I don't think England is really up for a bailout any more. This will drive separation faster with rocket boosters.
http://parliamentarycandidates.org
"Women MPs & parliamentary candidates since 1945":
http://www.ukpolitical.info/FemaleMPs.htm
Survation Camborne&Redruth:
UKIP 33, CON 28, LAB 22, LD 7
After naming candidates:
CON 34, UKIP 28, LAB 18, LD 13
[ugly, but reflects the nuance that those on each side are looking for - or should be looking for - the net benefit (or otherwise) rather than ignoring the fact that the EU has positives as well as negatives (or vice versa)]
Traitorous pig dogs is synonomous with defectors.
How about Collaborator hyena monkeys ?
That said, it may give the Scottish Tories a flag of sensible economics to rally around.
Tactical anti UKIP voting will see Farage out on his arse.
‘Well, I think in the near term we’d have to have a transitional period, and I think we should probably allow people who are currently here to have a work permit at least for a fixed period.’
I can lose count of the number of people, who are my age/background and many are my friends, who feel the nation state is a totally obsolete and redundant concept, and even dangerous. Something to be overcome and chipped away at by any means possible, because it leads to petty mindedness, conflict, racism and war.
I don't discuss this much with them, because it drives me mad. I find it difficult not to see it as anything other than treasonous. It strikes me as ungrateful, disrespectful and destructive. The UK (or the home countries in it, if you prefer) is a wonderful and beautiful country, that has its own unique culture, heritage and values, of which we should all be very proud (without being uncritical).
I would always put our interests first, but that doesn't mean selfishly screwing over the rest of humanity just to our advantage. It's in the same way I'd prioritise friends and families over strangers, whilst wishing strangers well and helping them where i can.
I presume the promise is met tens of thousands meant 26 tens of thousands
I genuinely can't call it.
I think it will be the most bet on seat at the election.
So difficult to call without Ms Sandys standing again
Almost like a sexually explicit joke at the expense of dead South African women
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/camborne-and-redruth/winning-party
Net migration is now 16,000 higher than it was when the coalition government was formed in 2010.
Another broken promise no ifs no buts
Unforgivable - Polling should by law only be published outwith reasonable munching times.
http://labourlist.org/2014/11/8-unions-lodge-joint-complaint-to-party-over-scottish-leadership-election/
I suspect one reason why the UK was in fifth place last year is that there is simply much better credit availability in the UK than in the Eurozone. QE, as you have rightly observed, has pushed borrowing costs down for UK firms, and that will almost certainly be true for infrastructure projects too. If the EIB is offering 4.5% for 10 years for your new bridge, and a syndicated loan from private sector lenders was at 4.25%, why would you go to the EIB?
I'd also point out that loans from the EIB are hardly 'free'. The EIB was profitable throughout the GFC and Eurozone crises. The EIB borrows from the private sector and lends to infrastructure projects that meet certain criteria.
Finally, there really is no reason for the EIB to exist any more. You can make a case that - post the fall of the Berlin Wall - there was a great deal of need for infrastructure projects in Eastern Europe - and a government backed entity was needed to make cheap loans to (say) a Polish state to enable it to upgrade its water supply. That need no longer exists, and with plenty of funding available directly from banks and capital markets, the implicit subsidy the EIB recieves is unnecessary and distorts the capital allocation process.
As we are the (joint) largest shareholder in the EIB, we should be pushing for its privatization. Given it makes €2.5bn/year in profits, there is no reason why it couldn't be sold for €25bn or so, giving us a healthy (€4bn or so) profit. (And, frankly, given the budget deficits of Spain and Italy and France, you'd think they'd be up for a sale too.)
I read this article on him back in August. I am quite fascinated by enigmas, and it seems he was never given a proper chance to fulfil his talent by the selectors. Such a tragedy
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/aug/13/phil-hughes-australia-selection-cricket
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-30138337
New Camborne & Redruth UKIP candidate is Dr Robert Smith:
http://www.westbriton.co.uk/UKIP-reveal-candidate-Camborne-Redruth-Hayle-seat/story-24552111-detail/story.html
Jailed for animal cruelty. Namely, the death of over two hundred sheep. To which he pleaded guilty a week after being selected as the UKIP candidate in Camborne and Redruth...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-30138337
Lab and Lib D supporters tend to hate UKIP but they also tend to hate the Tories.
In Rochester, it seems that more Lab/LD supporters were willing to vote tactically against the Tories than against UKIP. Would expect the same in S Thanet
Fourteen Somali men guilty of running Bristol child sex ring
Fourteen Somali men have been convicted of running an inner city sex ring that involved the abuse, rape and prostitution of teenage British girls, it can be reported for the first time.
Victims as young as 13 were preyed upon, sexually abused and passed around the men's friends for money in Bristol.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11257638/Fourteen-Somali-men-guilty-of-running-Bristol-child-sex-ring.html
Reminds me of the story from Birmingham
'People tell me they have heard about Rochdale and Oxford and see it as something which happens elsewhere to other people, but it is happening in Birmingham, it's happening everywhere,'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2564678/Teenage-girl-victim-grooming-gang-raped-30-men-just-six-hours-including-father-schoolboy-son.html
Maybe, just maybe, we should have a national police investigation and inquiry?
These immigration figures are the highest compliment the UK could be paid, people voting with their feet.
The surest way to collapse them is to vote in EdM's Labour and kill UK job creation.
http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/conventional-wisdom-on-next-election.html
Should be fun though. As "ashen-faced" Ron Knee, er, Nigel Farage has to explain away another colourful character for another news cycle....
http://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/market?id=1.101416490
EDIT: And I hope we can agree that his being in jail is rather a lack of merit?
(and the same for a 5/1 shot and 10%)
I'm a frequent train user and the money can be spent better elsewhere.
Despite the no favours, you will notice they were substantial ahead in the party poll and only dropped behind when they were testing using the name of a candidate that doesn't exist,
Now that IS an overround ^_~
Must agree that the 1/3 under 19.5 UKIP seats looks quite a good bet
Since this is a family blog I will just post the short-cut to Guido http://goo.gl/moH1ID
Judas QUISLING, The Labour Party
Mike UNTRY, UKKKIP
What to do, what to do?
The BIG issue of our age is deficits and debt. The one thing our governing coalition wants to big up is Labour's apparent willingness, nay desire, to wreak their destruction on our national finances all over again. We have a welfare state we can't afford. All other policy areas are dependent on the control of tax/spend/borrow. And yet, and yet.....we are proposing to let Scotland borrow. It is insane.
Are any of the top finance / business columnists reading? Ambrose? Jeremy? Alister? Robert? Dear lord please can we put a stop to this monstrosity? This is much the most important thing in the news today. It will destroy the UK for sure.
Twitter
Scotsman @TheScotsman 3 mins3 minutes ago
New powers package 'disappointing' & means 'continued Westminster rule', says Nicola Sturgeon: http://bit.ly/1vnHOQn
Jackson Carlaw MSP @JacksonMSP · 24m 24 minutes ago
Bitter, brittle, boorish performance from @NicolaSturgeon . A personal low, humiliation even #smithcommission
In other news, it would seem that Nicola Sturgeon and her party intend to try to take Scotland back to the 1970's without the need for a time machine!
Telegraph - Nicola Sturgeon warned 'radical' land reform costs jobs
http://www.theguardian.com/uk
(See what I did there?) :-)
'to be agreed' . 'capital investment' . Capital projects take several years to complete so some borrowing is inevitable.
The BBC report -- ''The lynchpin of all this is what the Commission calls the fiscal framework for the new devolution, which includes a number of principles.
Perhaps the most important is that at the precise moment that the new powers are devolved, Scotland's budget and the UK's budget should neither be bigger or smaller as a result of this transfer to Holyrood of new spending and taxing powers.''
The more that is devolved then the more EVEL becomes necessary. All of this is a result of the original devolution. Once the purpose of that failed and Labour were replaced by the SNP as the govt then it was inevitable that there would be more devolution. We have avoided one crisis and the latest news on the oil price fron will probably keep a return of independence damands away for some considerable time.
@MShapland: Ashcroft sends out constituency polls to MPs before release - anyone panicking in Ed Milibands office right now?