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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The ComRes marginals’ poll would be a lot more valuable if

SystemSystem Posts: 12,214
edited November 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The ComRes marginals’ poll would be a lot more valuable if there had been a 2 stage voting question

I was tied up last night when the ComRes/ITV online marginals poll was published as well as the latest YouGov which has the Tories back with a 1% lead.

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited November 2014
    Hah!

    edit: how did I beat @RobD when he announced the new thread on the last one?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033
    Charles said:

    Hah!

    edit: how did I beat @RobD when he announced the new thread on the last one?

    Where's the fun in being first all the time ;)
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    Funny how things change. Last week there was talk of an Tory polling collapse - now they're back in the lead with YG. The message seems to be to cut down on the hyperbole until clear patterns emerge.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2014
    felix said:

    Funny how things change. Last week there was talk of an Tory polling collapse - now they're back in the lead with YG. The message seems to be to cut down on the hyperbole until clear patterns emerge.

    Yep. But I don't think our advice is about to be heeded.

    This would apply at any time but late November through January are not great times for polling anyway. People are not thinking politics.

    I'd like to see a weekly polling round up instead of this breathless, panicky, reaction to every poll that risks seeing pb.com blown hither and thither at the slightest sub-sample. A greater degree of circumspection and watching trends would enhance us.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited November 2014
    Will we get the monthly ComRes/Independent poll today too?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    Hah!

    edit: how did I beat @RobD when he announced the new thread on the last one?

    Where's the fun in being first all the time ;)
    I suppose your partner might get grumpy after a while ;)

    As an aside, I'm planning to be in SF 12-15 January. It's a crazy time of year, but are you up for a drink?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    felix said:

    Funny how things change. Last week there was talk of an Tory polling collapse - now they're back in the lead with YG. The message seems to be to cut down on the hyperbole until clear patterns emerge.

    Yep. But I don't think our advice is about to be heeded.

    This would apply at any time but late November through January are not great times for polling anyway. People are not thinking politics.

    I'd like to see a weekly polling round up instead of this breathless, panicky, reaction to every poll that risks seeing pb.com blown hither and thither at the slightest sub-sample.
    While I do agree that OGH is over-interpreting polls & over-reliant on Ashcroft, it must be challenging to come up with interesting threads every day.

    Aschroft, at least, provides a large volume of data
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    felix said:

    Funny how things change. Last week there was talk of an Tory polling collapse - now they're back in the lead with YG. The message seems to be to cut down on the hyperbole until clear patterns emerge.

    There is a clear pattern. Declining Labour VI, stagnant Conservative VI, rising UKIP VI!

    http://electionsetc.com/2014/10/24/after-a-year-of-forecasting-whats-changed/
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/11256612/Juncker-will-have-a-difficult-job-waking-Europe-from-its-torpor.html
    At its heart is a new £15bn fund to raise private cash in the capital markets which will then be invested in £250bn of infrastructure projects.Although only a small proportion will come directly from EU funds, taxpayers would underwrite the risk. Given the scale of the Eurozone’s problems, this is a drop in the bucket. Moreover, it is a characteristically clunky, dirigiste approach made necessary by the fact that national governments are constrained through their membership of the single currency from taking their own fiscal and monetary measures.
    What could possibly go wrong, seems the EU has learned nothing from "subprime"
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    Hah!

    edit: how did I beat @RobD when he announced the new thread on the last one?

    Where's the fun in being first all the time ;)
    I suppose your partner might get grumpy after a while ;)

    As an aside, I'm planning to be in SF 12-15 January. It's a crazy time of year, but are you up for a drink?
    Unfortunately, I think I'm going to be in Seattle that week following a meeting I'm going to there, and then I head down to Chile for a few weeks. I'm not sure why I pay rent on my apartment really! Raincheck?
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    FPT

    hucks67 said:

    Current economics. This link to a blog is well worth reading.

    http://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/understanding-george-osborne.html?spref=tw

    Charles replied:

    But a very once sided view.

    The most interesting problem, IMHO, is the crowding out effect that I believe exists in parts of the UK.

    @Charles

    I agree - he omits balance of payments, omits productivity, omits effects of immigration, omits changing employment patterns, omits effects of global wage levels and omits rise of far East technology.

    This is an economic blog for fellow academia which is in effect a political blog and should be ignored for what it is.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    Hah!

    edit: how did I beat @RobD when he announced the new thread on the last one?

    Where's the fun in being first all the time ;)
    I suppose your partner might get grumpy after a while ;)

    As an aside, I'm planning to be in SF 12-15 January. It's a crazy time of year, but are you up for a drink?
    Unfortunately, I think I'm going to be in Seattle that week following a meeting I'm going to there, and then I head down to Chile for a few weeks. I'm not sure why I pay rent on my apartment really! Raincheck?
    Sure - am in SF every year in the second full week.

    Let me know if you are in SoCal at all - I am there from mid December through the New Year
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited November 2014
    Financier said:

    @Charles
    I agree - he omits balance of payments, omits productivity, omits effects of immigration, omits changing employment patterns, omits effects of global wage levels and omits rise of far East technology.

    This is an economic blog for fellow academia which is in effect a political blog and should be ignored for what it is.

    He also rather crucially omits that Osborne is a) in a coalition, and b) wants his party to get re-elected! Osborne conspicuously wants to cut more than he has, he just cant figure out how to do it without Clegg vetoing it, or trashing their election chances completely.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited November 2014
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/540523/Britain-pay-34bn-to-fill-EU-Black-Hole
    The staggering amount will push our EU contributions to above £13billion a year over the next six years – the equivalent to an extra £3,000 per household between now and 2020.

    According to the European Court of Auditors, David Cameron will be legally obliged to make up a share of the EU’s £259billion shortfall by the end of the decade.
    Will he manage to make it look like we will only be paying half this time :) How the hell can anyone get their accounts so wrong as to be almost 260 BILLION pounds wrong ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    Hah!

    edit: how did I beat @RobD when he announced the new thread on the last one?

    Where's the fun in being first all the time ;)
    I suppose your partner might get grumpy after a while ;)

    As an aside, I'm planning to be in SF 12-15 January. It's a crazy time of year, but are you up for a drink?
    Unfortunately, I think I'm going to be in Seattle that week following a meeting I'm going to there, and then I head down to Chile for a few weeks. I'm not sure why I pay rent on my apartment really! Raincheck?
    Sure - am in SF every year in the second full week.

    Let me know if you are in SoCal at all - I am there from mid December through the New Year
    No plans as it stands, but if I do head down (it'll most likely be to UCLA if I do) I'll let you know.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Financier said:

    FPT

    This is an economic blog for fellow academia which is in effect a political blog and should be ignored for what it is.

    Nah, I think you have it 100% the wrong way round.

    This is a *political* blog, for laymen, dressed up as an economic blog
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited November 2014
    felix said:

    Funny how things change. Last week there was talk of an Tory polling collapse - now they're back in the lead with YG. The message seems to be to cut down on the hyperbole until clear patterns emerge.

    But where's the fun in that - twas ever so.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    felix said:

    Funny how things change. Last week there was talk of an Tory polling collapse - now they're back in the lead with YG. The message seems to be to cut down on the hyperbole until clear patterns emerge.

    I certainly expected Rochester to have some impact upon the polls, but this doesn't seem to have happened.

    The only significant recent trend is that Labour lost support following their conference, and have not regained it, whereas the Tories gained support but have not maintained it.

    http://www.mediafire.com/view/2zwt71e758vtimh/YouGov polls 12 months to 27 November 2014.jpg#
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/11256657/Private-schools-only-look-after-their-own.html

    More "private schools are naughty and wicked" rantings from Dr The Hon Tristam Hunt
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461
    Indigo said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/11256612/Juncker-will-have-a-difficult-job-waking-Europe-from-its-torpor.html

    At its heart is a new £15bn fund to raise private cash in the capital markets which will then be invested in £250bn of infrastructure projects.Although only a small proportion will come directly from EU funds, taxpayers would underwrite the risk. Given the scale of the Eurozone’s problems, this is a drop in the bucket. Moreover, it is a characteristically clunky, dirigiste approach made necessary by the fact that national governments are constrained through their membership of the single currency from taking their own fiscal and monetary measures.
    What could possibly go wrong, seems the EU has learned nothing from "subprime"

    It does seem as if the EU and Eurozone are actively striving to fail. It seems that the only way that its malaise can be fixed is through much stronger integration and central control.

    That's something I don't want the UK to be part of, and as the EU is incapable of having two speeds, I'm sadly starting to tip off the fence towards BOO. The only problem is I'm not particularly fond of the inhabitants lurking in the unkempt long grass on that side of the fence ...
  • Indigo said:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/540523/Britain-pay-34bn-to-fill-EU-Black-Hole

    The staggering amount will push our EU contributions to above £13billion a year over the next six years – the equivalent to an extra £3,000 per household between now and 2020.

    According to the European Court of Auditors, David Cameron will be legally obliged to make up a share of the EU’s £259billion shortfall by the end of the decade.
    Will he manage to make it look like we will only be paying half this time :) How the hell can anyone get their accounts so wrong as to be almost 260 BILLION pounds wrong ?

    Ask Alistair Darling.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    edited November 2014

    felix said:

    Funny how things change. Last week there was talk of an Tory polling collapse - now they're back in the lead with YG. The message seems to be to cut down on the hyperbole until clear patterns emerge.

    I'd like to see a weekly polling round up instead of this breathless, panicky, reaction to every poll that risks seeing pb.com blown hither and thither at the slightest sub-sample.
    You are still fairly new around these parts aren't you :-)

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited November 2014

    That's something I don't want the UK to be part of, and as the EU is incapable of having two speeds, I'm sadly starting to tip off the fence towards BOO. The only problem is I'm not particularly fond of the inhabitants lurking in the unkempt long grass on that side of the fence ...

    If Cameron loses the next election I would be highly surprised if the lawn on that side of the fence wasn't freshly mowed, and the BoO side of the fence given a fresh new lick of blue paint. The next Tory leader won't want to do a deal with UKIP, he/she will just want to move onto their turf and steal a chunk of their voters with a fresh new shiney BoO Tory party. Well, unless they pick Boris, then they are stuffed and Nige will point at 5 years of Labour euro-idiocy come 2020 and win enough MPs to really matter.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    fitalass said:

    @Carnyx is spinning like a windmill in a full blown gale when he suggests either a sea-change in Scottish Politics, or that the National is somehow not uncritical of the SNP either! This newspaper is about as balanced as Carynyx's favourite SNP site 'Wings over Scotland' or the journalist Ian McWhirter, who he often tries to portray as 'balanced' in the Indy Referendum!!
    Twitter
    Iain Macwhirter @iainmacwhirter · Nov 23
    immensely excited about first new Scottish daily paper in twenty years. The National. Out tomorrow. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/tomorrow-the-national-a-new-daily-paper-for-scotland.25941314

    Mr Eugenides @Mr_Eugenides · 4h 4 hours ago
    @ScotNational: Just finished issue number 4 … And here it is . ” >Yep. Looks like an SNP press officer’s wet dream.

    Severin Carrell @severincarrell · Nov 24
    The National launch day review: a McPravda for Scotland’s separatists? asks @libby_brooks http://gu.com/p/43tvk/tw @ScotNational #indyref

    And from a Yes supporter........
    Alasdair Bremner @ADBremner · Nov 25
    I can see why @ScotNational is targeting Yes base, to establish itself, but it probably doesn't need to do it so full on as it is.

    Carnyx said:

    dr_spyn said:

    @Carnyx Found an Egg Jim Murphy Facebook community, I am pleased to report that his non support for Palestine may result in some more broken eggs.

    I couldn't possibly comment - definitely not my fight or my pooch therein. But, like his relatively right wing policies (till yesterday, as far as tax is concerned), it may be to do with the demographics of his constituency.

    Of course, Mr Salmond will be blamed (again) for any eggs ...

    In other news, the new Scottish newspaper The National is being printed with twice the print un and seems to be about third best selling in Scotland. Another indication of a sea-change in Scottish politics, and it's not uncritical of the SNP either.
    FPT:

    You don't say if you have bought and read it. With the recent exception of the Sunday Herald, 100% of the media in Scotland is pro-union, certainly in news coverage. Anything is an improvement on that. And we'll see how the National settles down. Much of its apparent pro-indy slant is sheer contrast with the other papers - for instance an "X Accused" headline which wasn't about the SNP.

    But you are missing the real point - which is that the news companies are beginning to realise that they have to shift.

    And I notice that like many on the No side you are equating the SNP with other Yes campaigners such as Wings. They are not the same and if you think they are you are missing some very important subtleties. And Wings is very useful because of the way in which he links to other sites and sources, above all the ones he doesn't agree with. When I post him here it's as much for that as for anything else.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Indigo said:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/540523/Britain-pay-34bn-to-fill-EU-Black-Hole

    The staggering amount will push our EU contributions to above £13billion a year over the next six years – the equivalent to an extra £3,000 per household between now and 2020.

    According to the European Court of Auditors, David Cameron will be legally obliged to make up a share of the EU’s £259billion shortfall by the end of the decade.
    Will he manage to make it look like we will only be paying half this time :) How the hell can anyone get their accounts so wrong as to be almost 260 BILLION pounds wrong ?

    Quite simple for an organisation whose accounts have not passed the auditors red pen for years and years.

    A combination of consistently ignored fraud, massive inefficiency and total lack of competence. Also so now structured that the executive is running the show instead of the members. Like Oliver Twist they just ask for more and more each year. Unlike Oliver Twist they are all on huge salaries, expenses and pensions. It is a self-feeding frenzy that has become ridiculous.

    Cameron should ignore all requests for extra funding, until the EU puts their own house in economic order and reduces costs to be compatible with the economic times.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Indigo said:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/540523/Britain-pay-34bn-to-fill-EU-Black-Hole

    The staggering amount will push our EU contributions to above £13billion a year over the next six years – the equivalent to an extra £3,000 per household between now and 2020.

    According to the European Court of Auditors, David Cameron will be legally obliged to make up a share of the EU’s £259billion shortfall by the end of the decade.
    Will he manage to make it look like we will only be paying half this time :) How the hell can anyone get their accounts so wrong as to be almost 260 BILLION pounds wrong ?

    Presumably it will be around six billion a year after the rebate. It's still a ludicrous amount, and shows how Cameron's deal to "cap" the budget was nothing of the sort. They just spend what they want and hand us the bill afterwards.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2014
    The UK will eventually break up. Giving Scotland full tax powers is not going to be comaptible, in the end, with union. A Neverendum will lead to another vote. The English will tire of paying for Scots prescriptions and students. I'm afraid that Labour opened Pandora's Box on this one with devolution and we can't put things back the way they were. Perhaps a deeply federal UK with a full English Parliament would keep things hanging together at the UK level for a while. But I suspect only for a while.

    And this is a tragedy for Scotland - as they'll need a currency.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Morning all and on thread poor Mike has had over 12 hours of ribbing for his silly Tory collapse in England thread on Monday.

    We now have a UNS of around 4 to 4.5% (subject to Ashcroft blowing that away later today in one direction or the other) from Con to Lab whereas a couple of months ago it was 5.5% and in the summer 6.5%. Last night I was looking at old YouGov polls and the one which struck me was in October 2012 when it was a Lab lead of 14% Lab 45 Con 31.

    Today SLAB is realising that the SNP and Tories have outflanked them over Scotland. Once again Gordon Brown, saviour of the universe has basically fecked his own party with his scheming and the promise! What happens to SLAB if in Scotland people who support the Union support the Unionist party i.e. the Tories and those who don't support the SNP? Next May is looking like it could get very bloody for SLAB.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    OT

    It is interesting to read BritvIc's (soft drinks) annual statement for 2014 (http://www.britvic.com/media-centre/financial-news/2014/26-11-2014.aspx).

    With a large UK market share and seeing increasing retail price competition in the UK, they are expanding their push into USA, India and Australia and gaining useful market share. Whilst they have operations in Ireland and France, their international focus in now outside of the EU.

    It seems to be shame that many other British companies are not following this example, and even moreso that our Europhile politicians do not see that there are more opportunities outside the EU than inside it.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    missed out a comma in last comment! "those who don't, support the SNP?"
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Times Red Box poll: 55% want "more redistribution"; specifically, 71% want the minimum wage increased, and 54% want the top rate of income tax to be 50% or higher. On the other hand, only 23% want higher benefits and 46% want lower benefits.

    Mostly this is just "I want other people to pay more" but the 71% on the minimum wage (which most people don't get) is different - combined with the low support for "benefits", this probably reflects a general mood that working should pay more at the lower rates and not working should pay less.

    Not commenting on any of that - just interesting to see the mood.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Income tax decided in Scotland... so are Scottish MPs going to be able to vote on English income tax?

    If only someone with a wiffle stick and lacey sleeves had predicted this.

    Mr. Patrick, an English Parliament is the only rational option at this stage. Otherwise we have a divided Westminster Parliament (either Scottish MPs get unfair powers or they vote on very little) and continue the march towards separation.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Indigo said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/11256657/Private-schools-only-look-after-their-own.html

    More "private schools are naughty and wicked" rantings from Dr The Hon Tristam Hunt

    Businesses (even non-profit organisations) look after their clients.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Morning all and on thread poor Mike has had over 12 hours of ribbing for his silly Tory collapse in England thread on Monday.

    We now have a UNS of around 4 to 4.5% (subject to Ashcroft blowing that away later today in one direction or the other) from Con to Lab whereas a couple of months ago it was 5.5% and in the summer 6.5%. Last night I was looking at old YouGov polls and the one which struck me was in October 2012 when it was a Lab lead of 14% Lab 45 Con 31.

    Today SLAB is realising that the SNP and Tories have outflanked them over Scotland. Once again Gordon Brown, saviour of the universe has basically fecked his own party with his scheming and the promise! What happens to SLAB if in Scotland people who support the Union support the Unionist party i.e. the Tories and those who don't support the SNP? Next May is looking like it could get very bloody for SLAB.

    Tories to get 55% in Scotland is perhaps one of your bolder predictions!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Morning all and on thread poor Mike has had over 12 hours of ribbing for his silly Tory collapse in England thread on Monday.

    We now have a UNS of around 4 to 4.5% (subject to Ashcroft blowing that away later today in one direction or the other) from Con to Lab whereas a couple of months ago it was 5.5% and in the summer 6.5%. Last night I was looking at old YouGov polls and the one which struck me was in October 2012 when it was a Lab lead of 14% Lab 45 Con 31.

    Today SLAB is realising that the SNP and Tories have outflanked them over Scotland. Once again Gordon Brown, saviour of the universe has basically fecked his own party with his scheming and the promise! What happens to SLAB if in Scotland people who support the Union support the Unionist party i.e. the Tories and those who don't support the SNP? Next May is looking like it could get very bloody for SLAB.

    Well, well. To think how I was derided when I pointed out that the Unionists were refighting indyref and that Scottish politics was polarising between SNP and Tories!

  • Charles said:

    felix said:

    Funny how things change. Last week there was talk of an Tory polling collapse - now they're back in the lead with YG. The message seems to be to cut down on the hyperbole until clear patterns emerge.

    Yep. But I don't think our advice is about to be heeded.

    This would apply at any time but late November through January are not great times for polling anyway. People are not thinking politics.

    I'd like to see a weekly polling round up instead of this breathless, panicky, reaction to every poll that risks seeing pb.com blown hither and thither at the slightest sub-sample.
    While I do agree that OGH is over-interpreting polls & over-reliant on Ashcroft, it must be challenging to come up with interesting threads every day.

    Aschroft, at least, provides a large volume of data
    I think that may be a tad unfair. This is after all a betting site and the polls can move the betting odds - even if, as audreyanne points out 98% of the country is not paying attention and only next spring will start engaging with the question of who will run the country post-May - then we may see some more meaningful moves in the polling - as it is, a result from Lab Maj to Con min can be easily extrapolated from today's polling. 'Tory collapse' (UKIP) and 'Labour collapse' (Miliband/SNP) could also easily be inferred from where we are today.......of course, we could get both.....or neither (small party squeeze/choosing PM)
  • Trading update....

    As some may recall my investments in specialist annuity providers has been one of my more unsuccessful punts, at one stage down £10k.... having averaged down, I am on the cusp of break-even again in one of the stocks and only £2k down in the other.

    At this rate a decent profit seems assured in 2072...
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    More "too-clever-by-half"-isms from George

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/autumn-statement/11256784/George-Osbornes-gimmicks-prove-he-is-a-true-disciple-of-Gordon-Brown.html
    Now Mr Osborne is forcing through another meaningless Commons vote. This one concerns the deficit. If I was Mr Osborne, and had missed as many deficit targets as he has, I might have chosen to keep quiet, but I am not. On Tuesday the Chancellor ordered his team of spinners round the press gallery with news that next Wednesday’s Autumn Statement will contain proposals for a new law: Britain’s colossal structural deficit will be eliminated by 2017-18.

    But this time the Chancellor is taking a gamble. It is such a large gamble that I wonder if he has considered it carefully enough in advance. With barely five months till election day, Mr Miliband is struggling. He has now been given a first-class opportunity to dig his way out of his political grave by calling George Osborne’s bluff and voting against the government.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    Good news for Mr Wilders I imagine.
  • Mr. Indigo, that Osborne move is complete idiocy. For a start, we can't know what the global economic picture will look like. If the eurozone falls into the sea then the idea it won't affect us dramatically is nonsense. I also loathe this modern moronic tendency to legislate for future policy targets. Parliaments cannot bind their successors, yet this is what appears to be attempted. Not only that, it's more government by legislating for headlines rather than just bloody governing.

    Mr. Scrapheap, glad to hear you are no longer as exposed as you once were.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Charles said:

    Indigo said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/11256657/Private-schools-only-look-after-their-own.html

    More "private schools are naughty and wicked" rantings from Dr The Hon Tristam Hunt

    Businesses (even non-profit organisations) look after their clients.
    Yes, seems to come as shock to him though... mind you, its not hard to see why, private school, oxbridge, academia, little bit of the telly, few books, then into politics... real world where you have clients and have to make money, what's that?!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821

    Morning all and on thread poor Mike has had over 12 hours of ribbing for his silly Tory collapse in England thread on Monday.

    We now have a UNS of around 4 to 4.5% (subject to Ashcroft blowing that away later today in one direction or the other) from Con to Lab whereas a couple of months ago it was 5.5% and in the summer 6.5%. Last night I was looking at old YouGov polls and the one which struck me was in October 2012 when it was a Lab lead of 14% Lab 45 Con 31.

    Today SLAB is realising that the SNP and Tories have outflanked them over Scotland. Once again Gordon Brown, saviour of the universe has basically fecked his own party with his scheming and the promise! What happens to SLAB if in Scotland people who support the Union support the Unionist party i.e. the Tories and those who don't support the SNP? Next May is looking like it could get very bloody for SLAB.

    But the today's Conservative Party is not a fit repository for those votes. It's too loathed, and this will skew the contest in favour of the SNP. We need the Murdo Fraser solution of a seperate Scottish party, preferrably renamed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Financier said:

    FPT

    hucks67 said:

    Current economics. This link to a blog is well worth reading.

    http://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/understanding-george-osborne.html?spref=tw

    Charles replied:

    But a very once sided view.

    The most interesting problem, IMHO, is the crowding out effect that I believe exists in parts of the UK.

    @Charles

    I agree - he omits balance of payments, omits productivity, omits effects of immigration, omits changing employment patterns, omits effects of global wage levels and omits rise of far East technology.

    This is an economic blog for fellow academia which is in effect a political blog and should be ignored for what it is.

    There is nevertheless a significant and learned view that the UK shouldn't have adopted austerity in 2010 because fears of the markets were overblown (this often, of course, with 20:20 hindsight) and we need only look towards the US, likewise a currency-issuing economy, to see that an expansionary fiscal policy was or might have been the right course.

    My observations:

    1) in 2010 there were very real fears about markets' reaction to fiscal profligacy (not to say the fears were either well- or unfounded but they were real). I can understand how an incoming chancellor would have shied away from immediate "investment" for fear that he would be the CoE that brought significant downgrade to the UK gilt market.

    2) In that article Simon Wren-Lewis ascribes a political motivation to GO in wanting to shrink the state but doesn't accept the equal possibility of political motivation for Lab wanting to expand it. Where GO and the Cons might see a smaller state as more desirable (I agree with them), in the same way might does EdB and Lab (they almost certainly do) see a larger public sector as a "better" social and economic model which is of course a political desire.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Brent Crude dipped below $76 - will the OPEC meeting make any difference to the oil price?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    Morning all and on thread poor Mike has had over 12 hours of ribbing for his silly Tory collapse in England thread on Monday.

    We now have a UNS of around 4 to 4.5% (subject to Ashcroft blowing that away later today in one direction or the other) from Con to Lab whereas a couple of months ago it was 5.5% and in the summer 6.5%. Last night I was looking at old YouGov polls and the one which struck me was in October 2012 when it was a Lab lead of 14% Lab 45 Con 31.

    Today SLAB is realising that the SNP and Tories have outflanked them over Scotland. Once again Gordon Brown, saviour of the universe has basically fecked his own party with his scheming and the promise! What happens to SLAB if in Scotland people who support the Union support the Unionist party i.e. the Tories and those who don't support the SNP? Next May is looking like it could get very bloody for SLAB.

    So, how many seats do you think the Tories will win in Scotland. I say 0 (zero), you say?

    Nutter...
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited November 2014

    Mr. Indigo, that Osborne move is complete idiocy. For a start, we can't know what the global economic picture will look like. If the eurozone falls into the sea then the idea it won't affect us dramatically is nonsense. I also loathe this modern moronic tendency to legislate for future policy targets. Parliaments cannot bind their successors, yet this is what appears to be attempted. Not only that, it's more government by legislating for headlines rather than just bloody governing..

    Mr Dancer, is not even that virtuous, I dont believe he is trying to bind them, its legislating to embarrass his successors, either by voting against it now, which will look bad, or having to overturn it on the floor of the house if they win, which will look worse. As the article says, if Ed grows a pair and votes against it, it might all blow up in Osborne's face.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited November 2014
    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Financier said:

    OT

    It is interesting to read BritvIc's (soft drinks) annual statement for 2014 (http://www.britvic.com/media-centre/financial-news/2014/26-11-2014.aspx).

    With a large UK market share and seeing increasing retail price competition in the UK, they are expanding their push into USA, India and Australia and gaining useful market share. Whilst they have operations in Ireland and France, their international focus in now outside of the EU.

    It seems to be shame that many other British companies are not following this example, and even moreso that our Europhile politicians do not see that there are more opportunities outside the EU than inside it.

    We'd encourage a lot more people to do it if we left the EU and negotiated our own trade agreements with these countries, which could reduce tariff and non-tariff barriers.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,951
    edited November 2014
    Whilst English votes for English laws is not enough, if Miliband opposes even that he might end up getting hammered in England, as well as Scotland. Cameron should bring forth a vote prior to the election.

    It could even be a rare opportunity for Clegg to emerge with some credit, if he backed the measure.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Palmer, what's your view on whether (if Scotland gains income tax powers) Scottish MPs should be able to vote on English income tax?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
    The Dutch have made the same mistakes we have. Their mentality of "tolerance" has been applied even to those that are intolerant and not integrating. The result is segregation socially, and now, apparently, politically. Will the left be happy with themselves when we have an Islamist parliamentary party in the UK, supporting bans on abortion, the revocation of gay marriage, and second class status for women? Left-wingers usually claim it's just a matter of time, and integration will happen. Well, please show me one example of a country that has had a large Muslim minority and has successfully integrated them fully, or even mostly.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
    They already have in Tower Hamlets.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Socrates said:

    Financier said:

    OT

    It is interesting to read BritvIc's (soft drinks) annual statement for 2014 (http://www.britvic.com/media-centre/financial-news/2014/26-11-2014.aspx).

    With a large UK market share and seeing increasing retail price competition in the UK, they are expanding their push into USA, India and Australia and gaining useful market share. Whilst they have operations in Ireland and France, their international focus in now outside of the EU.

    It seems to be shame that many other British companies are not following this example, and even moreso that our Europhile politicians do not see that there are more opportunities outside the EU than inside it.

    We'd encourage a lot more people to do it if we left the EU and negotiated our own trade agreements with these countries, which could reduce tariff and non-tariff barriers.
    I suspect it's more a question of doing both or neither. I remember when I was an MP going to see the management of a major local firm and asking them about their export strategy in Europe - did they think the Euro was helpful or harmful? They looked at each other and shrugged - "We aren't really focused on the export market". Not outside the EU, not inside the EU, they apparently just weren't bothered.

    A couple of years later, they were taken over by a venture capital firm with the explicit goal of opening up foreign markets. The general tendency at the time was to think that venture capital takeovers were Bad Things, but I thought it might be a classic example of a dozily-managed company that might benefit from a shake-up. Not every capitalist move is a bad thing!
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    The problem that LibLabCon are having is that they are the ones continuously embracing the most outdated 1950s thing of all: the dream of European integration. It was a very time-specific concept as a reaction to the previous decade, in a world where only North America and Europe were the economic engines of the world and where the failures of dirigiste protectionism hadn't fully come to light.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Tragic news regarding Phil Hughes. It's hard to believe he has died.

    He will be remembered fondly in cricket. On his test debut the owner of the pub in his local village said he'd give out a certain amount of free beer for every run he scored and he went out there - aged just 19 or 20 I think, I remember watching it - and made a big century against the South Africans.

    He was a player who put test cricket first too, choosing not to play T20 in order to work on his technique and become a great test cricketer. He would've been back in the test side next week.

    It's a very, very sad day for sport.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.

    I wonder if UK Labour would still be son keen on importing voters if that came to pass?
  • Nice little piece here from Al Beeb on immigration from Romania and Bulgaria.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30222812

    Life is full of ironies. The Romanian immigrant in the profile was met at the airport by two MPs. Keith Vaz (the man is everywhere) and none other than Mr Mark Reckless!

    Does his current boss know about this?
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    Charles said:

    felix said:

    Funny how things change. Last week there was talk of an Tory polling collapse - now they're back in the lead with YG. The message seems to be to cut down on the hyperbole until clear patterns emerge.


    I'd like to see a weekly polling round up instead of this breathless, panicky, reaction to every poll that risks seeing pb.com blown hither and thither at the slightest sub-sample.
    While I do agree that OGH is over-interpreting polls & over-reliant on Ashcroft, it must be challenging to come up with interesting threads every day.

    Aschroft, at least, provides a large volume of data
    That's very true. Whilst accepting that this is a betting site, we could have some more threads on political news which might have an impact. I'm not necessarily suggesting we head down the Guido route, but there are newsworthy items beyond just polls. However, I'm not really taking a pop at Mike. It's a minor handbag wave, that's all. This site remains my favourite and he and others do a truly great job.
    Gadfly said:

    felix said:

    Funny how things change. Last week there was talk of an Tory polling collapse - now they're back in the lead with YG. The message seems to be to cut down on the hyperbole until clear patterns emerge.

    I certainly expected Rochester to have some impact upon the polls, but this doesn't seem to have happened.

    The only significant recent trend is that Labour lost support following their conference, and have not regained it, whereas the Tories gained support but have not maintained it.

    http://www.mediafire.com/view/2zwt71e758vtimh/YouGov polls 12 months to 27 November 2014.jpg#
    I think that's about right, which is why it's so good to take a step back. Very little has changed. The Conservatives have nudged up by millimetres. UKIP have slid back a little. Labour have slid further.
    Gadfly said:

    felix said:

    Funny how things change. Last week there was talk of an Tory polling collapse - now they're back in the lead with YG. The message seems to be to cut down on the hyperbole until clear patterns emerge.

    I'd like to see a weekly polling round up instead of this breathless, panicky, reaction to every poll that risks seeing pb.com blown hither and thither at the slightest sub-sample.
    You are still fairly new around these parts aren't you :-)

    Would it matter if I were?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
    The Dutch have made the same mistakes we have. Their mentality of "tolerance" has been applied even to those that are intolerant and not integrating. The result is segregation socially, and now, apparently, politically. Will the left be happy with themselves when we have an Islamist parliamentary party in the UK, supporting bans on abortion, the revocation of gay marriage, and second class status for women? Left-wingers usually claim it's just a matter of time, and integration will happen. Well, please show me one example of a country that has had a large Muslim minority and has successfully integrated them fully, or even mostly.
    I'm afraid that the only things Politically/Religiously* organised Muslims want is total separation for themselves, first; then later, total control of the body politic that they inhabit.

    And I'm amazed and not a little bewildered that other normally good and sane people just don't get it.

    *Politically/Religiously = in Islam there is no difference.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461

    Socrates said:

    Financier said:

    OT

    It is interesting to read BritvIc's (soft drinks) annual statement for 2014 (http://www.britvic.com/media-centre/financial-news/2014/26-11-2014.aspx).

    With a large UK market share and seeing increasing retail price competition in the UK, they are expanding their push into USA, India and Australia and gaining useful market share. Whilst they have operations in Ireland and France, their international focus in now outside of the EU.

    It seems to be shame that many other British companies are not following this example, and even moreso that our Europhile politicians do not see that there are more opportunities outside the EU than inside it.

    We'd encourage a lot more people to do it if we left the EU and negotiated our own trade agreements with these countries, which could reduce tariff and non-tariff barriers.
    I suspect it's more a question of doing both or neither. I remember when I was an MP going to see the management of a major local firm and asking them about their export strategy in Europe - did they think the Euro was helpful or harmful? They looked at each other and shrugged - "We aren't really focused on the export market". Not outside the EU, not inside the EU, they apparently just weren't bothered.

    A couple of years later, they were taken over by a venture capital firm with the explicit goal of opening up foreign markets. The general tendency at the time was to think that venture capital takeovers were Bad Things, but I thought it might be a classic example of a dozily-managed company that might benefit from a shake-up. Not every capitalist move is a bad thing!
    Why was the company necessarily dozily-managed? Expansions into foreign markets isn't exactly risk-free, and perhaps they decided further expansion wasn't worth the risk for them. The VC's probably felt very differently, especially with their access to capital.

    There might have been very good reasons why they didn't want to risk massive exposure to export markets.

    Of course you, as an MP, knew the business and their model intimately enough to call them dozy ...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Ninoinoz said:

    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
    They already have in Tower Hamlets.
    Indeed - and they are doing what they can to make permanent that political fiefdom: rigging the electoral system with postal and proxy voting fraud, and building up Islamist schools teaching reactionary things about women and gays. UKIP want to stop this sort of thing and the mainstream parties want a softly-softly approach, yet supposedly its UKIP that's against modernisation!
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
    The Dutch have made the same mistakes we have. Their mentality of "tolerance" has been applied even to those that are intolerant and not integrating. The result is segregation socially, and now, apparently, politically. Will the left be happy with themselves when we have an Islamist parliamentary party in the UK, supporting bans on abortion, the revocation of gay marriage, and second class status for women? Left-wingers usually claim it's just a matter of time, and integration will happen. Well, please show me one example of a country that has had a large Muslim minority and has successfully integrated them fully, or even mostly.
    Ban on abortion? Revocation of gay "marriage"?

    Where do I put my cross on the ballot paper?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Can we deduce from the lack of outrage from Nats that they are reasonably satisfied with the Smith Commission ?

    Remember it would never happen - just like the referendum....
  • Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
    The Dutch have made the same mistakes we have. Their mentality of "tolerance" has been applied even to those that are intolerant and not integrating. The result is segregation socially, and now, apparently, politically. Will the left be happy with themselves when we have an Islamist parliamentary party in the UK, supporting bans on abortion, the revocation of gay marriage, and second class status for women? Left-wingers usually claim it's just a matter of time, and integration will happen. Well, please show me one example of a country that has had a large Muslim minority and has successfully integrated them fully, or even mostly.
    USA?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Ninoinoz said:

    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
    The Dutch have made the same mistakes we have. Their mentality of "tolerance" has been applied even to those that are intolerant and not integrating. The result is segregation socially, and now, apparently, politically. Will the left be happy with themselves when we have an Islamist parliamentary party in the UK, supporting bans on abortion, the revocation of gay marriage, and second class status for women? Left-wingers usually claim it's just a matter of time, and integration will happen. Well, please show me one example of a country that has had a large Muslim minority and has successfully integrated them fully, or even mostly.
    Ban on abortion? Revocation of gay "marriage"?

    Where do I put my cross on the ballot paper?
    You're clearly more sympathetic to reactionary Islamism than I am. I'm more of a fan of classical liberalism, the greatest thing Britain gave the world.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2014
    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
    The Dutch have made the same mistakes we have. Their mentality of "tolerance" has been applied even to those that are intolerant and not integrating. The result is segregation socially, and now, apparently, politically. Will the left be happy with themselves when we have an Islamist parliamentary party in the UK, supporting bans on abortion, the revocation of gay marriage, and second class status for women? Left-wingers usually claim it's just a matter of time, and integration will happen. Well, please show me one example of a country that has had a large Muslim minority and has successfully integrated them fully, or even mostly.
    I'm afraid that the only things Politically/Religiously* organised Muslims want is total separation for themselves, first; then later, total control of the body politic that they inhabit.

    And I'm amazed and not a little bewildered that other normally good and sane people just don't get it.

    *Politically/Religiously = in Islam there is no difference.
    I'm afraid that's ignorant nonsense. I could rip your argument to shreds on several counts, but you could start learning from your comment 'Muslims want,' as if the followers are a homogenous lump rather than a disparate faith comprising many cultures and countries. Even a political analysis will show you how 'Muslim' is fighting 'Muslim' in a kaleidoscope of contradiction. I wonder if you have ever really studied Islam. Do you even know that 80% of Muslims are non-Arabic?

    I have many Muslim friends, most of whom are British Muslims, who would not identify themselves with your remarks and who do not see themselves as political. They follow the prescribed prayers and try to lead good lives, whilst loving this country. That there are a significantly vocal minority, sometimes in positions of leadership, is equally beyond dispute.

    I could go on but there's not much point. My hopes of educating some of the right-wingers on pb.com about Islam are very slim.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    If the marginals are polling at 39% Lab, 31% Con, then you'd expect a convincing Labour majority overall.

    With an 18% UKIP showing too, could we expect the decimation of the Tory Party to a rump and an undeserved Labour landslide?

    Either way, the Tories and DC are toast. Ed Miliband will be our next PM, and possibly for far longer than anyone ever conceived possible.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited November 2014
    Financier said:

    Brent Crude dipped below $76 - will the OPEC meeting make any difference to the oil price?

    £48.21 equivalent.

    Should be some pump supermarket price wars soon.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
    The Dutch have made the same mistakes we have. Their mentality of "tolerance" has been applied even to those that are intolerant and not integrating. The result is segregation socially, and now, apparently, politically. Will the left be happy with themselves when we have an Islamist parliamentary party in the UK, supporting bans on abortion, the revocation of gay marriage, and second class status for women? Left-wingers usually claim it's just a matter of time, and integration will happen. Well, please show me one example of a country that has had a large Muslim minority and has successfully integrated them fully, or even mostly.
    USA?
    Muslims in the US represent 0.8% of the population.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    Socrates said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
    They already have in Tower Hamlets.
    Indeed - and they are doing what they can to make permanent that political fiefdom: rigging the electoral system with postal and proxy voting fraud, and building up Islamist schools teaching reactionary things about women and gays. UKIP want to stop this sort of thing and the mainstream parties want a softly-softly approach, yet supposedly its UKIP that's against modernisation!
    Well, Labour have happily connived in the postal vote fraud - delighted that has come back to bite them.

    As for Islamic schools, they are free to found them as the other religions are and free to practise and promulgate their religion within them.

    UKIP won't do anything about them, there are simply too many religious members in that party. However, Grammar schools will mitigate their growth.
  • Ninoinoz said:

    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
    The Dutch have made the same mistakes we have. Their mentality of "tolerance" has been applied even to those that are intolerant and not integrating. The result is segregation socially, and now, apparently, politically. Will the left be happy with themselves when we have an Islamist parliamentary party in the UK, supporting bans on abortion, the revocation of gay marriage, and second class status for women? Left-wingers usually claim it's just a matter of time, and integration will happen. Well, please show me one example of a country that has had a large Muslim minority and has successfully integrated them fully, or even mostly.
    Ban on abortion? Revocation of gay "marriage"?

    Where do I put my cross on the ballot paper?
    A perfect example of how extremist Christians criticising extremist Muslims is laughable. I look forward to the day when neither religion has any sway over British politics.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited November 2014
    Viz. The Government's disgraceful decision to privatise the East Coast rail line - is there any way that this can be 'filibustered'?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    murali_s said:

    Viz. The Government's disgraceful decision to privatise East Coast rail line - is there any way that this can be 'filibustered'?

    Why - it sounds great news -more services first direct trains to Huddersfield from KX.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    The one big Muslim community in the USA is in Dearbon, Michigan. Here's how they responded to a pro-Christianity march there:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnJBW49afzg#t=136
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited November 2014

    If the marginals are polling at 39% Lab, 31% Con, then you'd expect a convincing Labour majority overall.

    With an 18% UKIP showing too, could we expect the decimation of the Tory Party to a rump and an undeserved Labour landslide?

    Either way, the Tories and DC are toast. Ed Miliband will be our next PM, and possibly for far longer than anyone ever conceived possible.

    Lab are 1% behind in yougov poll with 6 months of polling deterioration to come.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Another Cameron and Tory lie exposed:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/27/immigration-eu-figures-uk-impossible-target-teresa-may

    But then Cammo's morning motto must be to tell at least ten lies before breakfast. :)
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312

    Ninoinoz said:

    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
    The Dutch have made the same mistakes we have. Their mentality of "tolerance" has been applied even to those that are intolerant and not integrating. The result is segregation socially, and now, apparently, politically. Will the left be happy with themselves when we have an Islamist parliamentary party in the UK, supporting bans on abortion, the revocation of gay marriage, and second class status for women? Left-wingers usually claim it's just a matter of time, and integration will happen. Well, please show me one example of a country that has had a large Muslim minority and has successfully integrated them fully, or even mostly.
    Ban on abortion? Revocation of gay "marriage"?

    Where do I put my cross on the ballot paper?
    A perfect example of how extremist Christians criticising extremist Muslims is laughable. I look forward to the day when neither religion has any sway over British politics.
    Look forward all you want, the demographics are remorseless.

    Also, it would help if the political parties actually had a political ideology, rather than vote for me because "I would be rather good at it".
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    260,000 net migration in year to June 2014. Up from 182,000 prior.

    Great for the economy.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    MikeK said:

    Another Cameron and Tory lie exposed:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/27/immigration-eu-figures-uk-impossible-target-teresa-may

    But then Cammo's morning motto must be to tell at least ten lies before breakfast. :)

    Are you sure ? Kippers are easily confused..


    http://www.charlotteahenry.com/nigel-farages-local-party-mistake-westminster-cathedral-for-a-mosque/

    "Nigel Farage’s local party mistake Westminster Cathedral for a mosque"
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    murali_s said:

    Viz. The Government's disgraceful decision to privatise the East Coast rail line - is there any way that this can be 'filibustered'?

    It was privatised 20 years ago, so your ship has sailed!

    For the past 5 years we've had the farce of a Government owned "private" company running the franchise on an emergency basis. I don't know whether there's any truth in the RMT claims that this has produced £1bn a year for public coffers, that sounds very dodgy to me, but it cannot be said to be a "privatisation" or "sell off".
  • One of the biggest days for politics in England. The devolution of income tax to Scotland is probably a materstroke by Cameron. No more can Labour use Scottish MPs to vote through a 50% tax rate. For the Scots they face a Hobsons choice. If they put through a 50% tax rate then many top rate income tax payers, including myself, will just switch their residency to England. However if they set the rates low then they will have to cut welfare.

    I suggest that the Tories will probably win 2 or 3 MPs in Scotland. The SNP have moved to the left and UKIP are no major force leaving areas such as Pentlands a prime target. It may be a good time for Jim Murphy to become a MSP as he may lose his seat as well to the Tories as his Labour vote defects to the SNP.
  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 664
    edited November 2014
    I also see the Lib Dems keeping the majority of their Scottish seats.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
    The Dutch have made the same mistakes we have. Their mentality of "tolerance" has been applied even to those that are intolerant and not integrating. The result is segregation socially, and now, apparently, politically. Will the left be happy with themselves when we have an Islamist parliamentary party in the UK, supporting bans on abortion, the revocation of gay marriage, and second class status for women? Left-wingers usually claim it's just a matter of time, and integration will happen. Well, please show me one example of a country that has had a large Muslim minority and has successfully integrated them fully, or even mostly.
    I'm afraid that the only things Politically/Religiously* organised Muslims want is total separation for themselves, first; then later, total control of the body politic that they inhabit.

    And I'm amazed and not a little bewildered that other normally good and sane people just don't get it.

    *Politically/Religiously = in Islam there is no difference.
    I'm afraid that's ignorant nonsense. I could rip your argument to shreds on several counts, but you could start learning from your comment 'Muslims want,' as if the followers are a homogenous lump rather than a disparate faith comprising many cultures and countries. Even a political analysis will show you how 'Muslim' is fighting 'Muslim' in a kaleidoscope of contradiction. I wonder if you have ever really studied Islam. Do you even know that 80% of Muslims are non-Arabic?

    I have many Muslim friends, most of whom are British Muslims, who would not identify themselves with your remarks and who do not see themselves as political. They follow the prescribed prayers and try to lead good lives, whilst loving this country. That there are a significantly vocal minority, sometimes in positions of leadership, is equally beyond dispute.

    I could go on but there's not much point. My hopes of educating some of the right-wingers on pb.com about Islam are very slim.
    But, you do seem to have a very rose-tinted view of Islam.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Douglas Fraser ‏@BBCDouglasF 3m3 minutes ago
    No 10 promises plans for English votes on English laws before Christmas: @BBCNormanS, saying Smith deal "hugely difficult" for Ed Miliband

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Scotland should set its own income tax:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-30223348

    Fine. As long as Scots MPs don't vote on English income tax.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    TGOHF said:

    Douglas Fraser ‏@BBCDouglasF 3m3 minutes ago
    No 10 promises plans for English votes on English laws before Christmas: @BBCNormanS, saying Smith deal "hugely difficult" for Ed Miliband

    What if Labour agrees ?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    A new Islamist political party has been founded in the Netherlands, splitting from the Labour Party:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4910/the-netherlands-newest-accomplishment

    The muslims in Holland now feel strong enough to to come out of hiding from under their Labour Party blanket. The same will probably happen here in a year or two. The Respect party was something of an attempt to make a mass muslim centred party here in the UK, but has so far failed to tempt muslims embedded in other parties to participate.
    The Dutch have made the same mistakes we have. Their mentality of "tolerance" has been applied even to those that are intolerant and not integrating. The result is segregation socially, and now, apparently, politically. Will the left be happy with themselves when we have an Islamist parliamentary party in the UK, supporting bans on abortion, the revocation of gay marriage, and second class status for women? Left-wingers usually claim it's just a matter of time, and integration will happen. Well, please show me one example of a country that has had a large Muslim minority and has successfully integrated them fully, or even mostly.
    I'm afraid that the only things Politically/Religiously* organised Muslims want is total separation for themselves, first; then later, total control of the body politic that they inhabit.

    And I'm amazed and not a little bewildered that other normally good and sane people just don't get it.

    *Politically/Religiously = in Islam there is no difference.
    I'm afraid that's ignorant nonsense. I could rip your argument to shreds on several counts, but you could start learning from your comment 'Muslims want,' as if the followers are a homogenous lump rather than a disparate faith comprising many cultures and countries. Even a political analysis will show you how 'Muslim' is fighting 'Muslim' in a kaleidoscope of contradiction. I wonder if you have ever really studied Islam. Do you even know that 80% of Muslims are non-Arabic?

    I have many Muslim friends, most of whom are British Muslims, who would not identify themselves with your remarks and who do not see themselves as political. They follow the prescribed prayers and try to lead good lives, whilst loving this country. That there are a significantly vocal minority, sometimes in positions of leadership, is equally beyond dispute.

    I could go on but there's not much point. My hopes of educating some of the right-wingers on pb.com about Islam are very slim.
    As is your want @audreyanne you failed to read my post properly: I'm talking about organised militant Islam and the way it acts.

    I'm sure that there are plenty of individually fine muslims around.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Net migration higher than when government came to office.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Net Migration levels now above than under Labour.

    Remember the "No Buts, No ifs" pledge.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    edited November 2014
    Socrates said:

    Scotland should set its own income tax:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-30223348

    Fine. As long as Scots MPs don't vote on English income tax.

    But they have to. Because London retains control of allowances. [Edit: if it happens.]

    I know. I don't understand it either.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Theresa May suppressing immigration reports until after the next election:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-buried-bad-news-immigration-report-9885734.html
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    One of the biggest days for politics in England. The devolution of income tax to Scotland is probably a materstroke by Cameron. No more can Labour use Scottish MPs to vote through a 50% tax rate. For the Scots they face a Hobsons choice. If they put through a 50% tax rate then many top rate income tax payers, including myself, will just switch their residency to England. However if they set the rates low then they will have to cut welfare.

    I suggest that the Tories will probably win 2 or 3 MPs in Scotland. The SNP have moved to the left and UKIP are no major force leaving areas such as Pentlands a prime target. It may be a good time for Jim Murphy to become a MSP as he may lose his seat as well to the Tories as his Labour vote defects to the SNP.

    I also see the Lib Dems keeping the majority of their Scottish seats.

    Murphy losing his seat... TO THE TORIES

    I'd like some of what you're smoking.
  • TGOHF said:

    Can we deduce from the lack of outrage from Nats that they are reasonably satisfied with the Smith Commission ?

    Remember it would never happen - just like the referendum....

    Seriously? You know the Nats never miss an opportunity to feel hard done by....

    Nicola sturgeon re-tweeted: .@JohnSwinney tells @BBCNews new powers welcome but agreement doesn't fulfill the expectations of the people of Scotland #smithcommission

    Blair Mcdougall tweeted: Sadly predictable response from SNP that today's powers don't meet the vow simply not credible. These powers far exceed it and they know it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    The problem is that "modernisation" could never have appealed to more than a small niche of the electorate. Had the Conservatives' 33% remained with them, then this extra sliver of votes might have just got them over the finishing line, but lots of them defected to UKIP.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    @Hamiltonace Are you in favour of marijuana legalisation ?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    edited November 2014

    One of the biggest days for politics in England. The devolution of income tax to Scotland is probably a materstroke by Cameron. No more can Labour use Scottish MPs to vote through a 50% tax rate. For the Scots they face a Hobsons choice. If they put through a 50% tax rate then many top rate income tax payers, including myself, will just switch their residency to England. However if they set the rates low then they will have to cut welfare.

    I suggest that the Tories will probably win 2 or 3 MPs in Scotland. The SNP have moved to the left and UKIP are no major force leaving areas such as Pentlands a prime target. It may be a good time for Jim Murphy to become a MSP as he may lose his seat as well to the Tories as his Labour vote defects to the SNP.

    And as he has proclaimed his intention to tax at least some of his Tory voters at 50% (not however at current levels of 40%, as I understand it: but that detail ay have been lost in the headline war when he or his allies seemingly mobilised media friends earlier this week).

    Edit: BUT he has to survive one more year as an MP, unless some MSP throws in the towel. Yet most Labour MSPs are List MSPs and no use for that, and the few who won constituency seats are not to be lightly thrown away (as well as losing their leaving benefits if they resign early).

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    BenM said:

    260,000 net migration in year to June 2014. Up from 182,000 prior.

    Great for the economy.

    So, you're saying the economy is in good shape, after all?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Net migration now UP after four years of Theresa May. What a useless minister she is.

    Cameron's big EU speech needs to advocate a points system for EU immigration. The fallback option of an emergency brake isn't going to be enough.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Carnyx said:

    Socrates said:

    Scotland should set its own income tax:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-30223348

    Fine. As long as Scots MPs don't vote on English income tax.

    But they have to. Because London retains control of allowances. [Edit: if it happens.]

    I know. I don't understand it either.

    "if it happens"

    Of course not - remember Cameron would never allow an Indy ref...

    There must be a name for such a syndrome...
This discussion has been closed.