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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ed Miliband could be in trouble in Doncaster

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  • For those of a nervous, excitable, irascible or irrational disposition, I recommend looking at random at some of the PB archives on the right, for the period November 2009-May 2010.

    During the Cleggasm, I remember some Lib Dems talking about Witney being a Lib Dem gain.
    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/28/how-do-the-old-firm-respond-to-this/

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/27/tonights-polls/

    Even better:

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/27/could-the-lds-get-most-seats-with-36pc/
    I've clicked on the links, but can't see any comments. In fact, it says "no comments".

    I'm on Safari. Am I doing something wrong? Is it the browser, or are the comments no longer available?
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    @FrankBooth‌ & @HYUFD‌

    But No was going to win anyway (one panicky poll aside), and most of those were going to vote NO before any vow.

    How many of those don't want SNP to get carried away?

  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Has anyone placed a bet on Ludogorets vs Liverpool?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    AndyJS said:

    Ed would have to be on less than 40% to be in serious trouble which seems a bit unlikely given that he polled 47% in 2010.

    I agree, UKIP could score 35% in Doncaster North and still Ed wins.
    However if they score 35% in Doncaster North, what about other seats in the area?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2014

    For those of a nervous, excitable, irascible or irrational disposition, I recommend looking at random at some of the PB archives on the right, for the period November 2009-May 2010.

    During the Cleggasm, I remember some Lib Dems talking about Witney being a Lib Dem gain.
    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/28/how-do-the-old-firm-respond-to-this/

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/27/tonights-polls/

    Even better:

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/27/could-the-lds-get-most-seats-with-36pc/
    I've clicked on the links, but can't see any comments. In fact, it says "no comments".

    I'm on Safari. Am I doing something wrong? Is it the browser, or are the comments no longer available?
    Comments no longer available. The only way to get them is to go to an archive like the WayBack machine.

    However, to get an idea of the hysteria, the articles suffice!
  • On topic, Ed will win. Decapitation strategies of main party leaders almost never work. His profile and name recognition will be up, and people like to think their local MP could be Prime Minister, and that'll be enough to see him through. Not to mention the fact that Tory and UKIP voters are more mutually exclusive than people tend to think.

    The advantage is that a strong challenge will be a distraction, and will force him to (some degree) personally fight a ground war in Doncaster, when he should be out across the country rallying the troops and the voters.

    Decapitation strategies tend not to work when they're seen as such i.e. a party looking to play games in which the local electorate have to take on the role of their pawns. It's a different matter if the challenge to the prominent member is an organic one that's genuinely grown within the constituency. In that case, UKIP's best option would be to ensure their candidate was well funded and supported but without making anything of it on a larger stage. Flagging it up to the national press, for example, that Miliband was a target would - as you rightly say - be counterproductive.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    For those of a nervous, excitable, irascible or irrational disposition, I recommend looking at random at some of the PB archives on the right, for the period November 2009-May 2010.

    During the Cleggasm, I remember some Lib Dems talking about Witney being a Lib Dem gain.
    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/28/how-do-the-old-firm-respond-to-this/

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/27/tonights-polls/

    Even better:

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/27/could-the-lds-get-most-seats-with-36pc/
    I've clicked on the links, but can't see any comments. In fact, it says "no comments".

    I'm on Safari. Am I doing something wrong? Is it the browser, or are the comments no longer available?</blockquote


    Are you doing something wrong ?

    well.... I think you are meant to look at all the animals ? Or that's my understanding of what safaris are all about
    ;-)

    ( impressed though you are looking at PB when down in a bush. )
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Speedy said:

    Has anyone placed a bet on Ludogorets vs Liverpool?

    Avoided it as Liverpool can only be relied upon to be unreliable.

    Comfortable treble on the two Madrids plus Juve.
  • For those of a nervous, excitable, irascible or irrational disposition, I recommend looking at random at some of the PB archives on the right, for the period November 2009-May 2010.

    During the Cleggasm, I remember some Lib Dems talking about Witney being a Lib Dem gain.
    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/28/how-do-the-old-firm-respond-to-this/

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/27/tonights-polls/

    Even better:

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/27/could-the-lds-get-most-seats-with-36pc/
    I've clicked on the links, but can't see any comments. In fact, it says "no comments".

    I'm on Safari. Am I doing something wrong? Is it the browser, or are the comments no longer available?
    Comments no longer available. The only way to get them is to go to an archive like the WayBack machine.

    However, to get an idea of the hysteria, the articles suffice!
    Boo!!!! Bring back the archived comments, I say! (agree about the thread headers, but the comments would make a hell of a read)

    This is an interesting one too: http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/05/15/so-is-it-going-to-be-a-miliband/#vanilla-comments
  • Moses_ said:

    For those of a nervous, excitable, irascible or irrational disposition, I recommend looking at random at some of the PB archives on the right, for the period November 2009-May 2010.

    During the Cleggasm, I remember some Lib Dems talking about Witney being a Lib Dem gain.
    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/28/how-do-the-old-firm-respond-to-this/

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/27/tonights-polls/

    Even better:

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/27/could-the-lds-get-most-seats-with-36pc/
    I've clicked on the links, but can't see any comments. In fact, it says "no comments".

    I'm on Safari. Am I doing something wrong? Is it the browser, or are the comments no longer available?
    Very droll, Moses!

    Right, chores before bedtime. Goodnight all.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    chestnut said:


    Scotland To Get Full Income Tax Powers

    http://news.sky.com/story/1380950/scotland-to-get-full-income-tax-powers


    I wonder how many NO voters didn't want the SNP to have any more powers? They must be pretty annoyed right now, after all they won right?

    What does this mean for England?



    Or more to the point should as a consequence the English reduce the amount of us subsidy that Gets paid into Scotland.?

    *takes cover ready for incoming *
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Oh dear poor old Ed


  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,378
    It would be very funny if Miliband lost his seat's but Labour had most seats/majority.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    MegaLolz

    what he said :-)
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    Moses_ said:

    For those of a nervous, excitable, irascible or irrational disposition, I recommend looking at random at some of the PB archives on the right, for the period November 2009-May 2010.

    During the Cleggasm, I remember some Lib Dems talking about Witney being a Lib Dem gain.
    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/28/how-do-the-old-firm-respond-to-this/

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/27/tonights-polls/

    Even better:

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/27/could-the-lds-get-most-seats-with-36pc/
    I've clicked on the links, but can't see any comments. In fact, it says "no comments".

    I'm on Safari. Am I doing something wrong? Is it the browser, or are the comments no longer available?
    Very droll, Moses!

    Right, chores before bedtime. Goodnight all.
    Sorry
    The old ones are always the worse

    I'll get me own coat
  • Re: Doncaster north… The first part of the Ashcroft tweet isn’t surprising at all – Sophie Brodie polled 21% for the Conservatives in 2010, compared with 4.3% for UKIP’s Liz Andrews, so on a uniform swing it’s no surprise that UKIP are second. But a big two party leader being defeated in their own seat? It hasn’t happened since Arthur Henderson (Labour) lost Burnley in the Tory landslide in 1931.

    A couple of things jump out from the 2010 result. Firstly, Miliband took 47.3% of the vote in 2010, so in order to be vulnerable to tactical voting, he must by definition still be under 50% and probably a few points below it. So becoming Labour leader hasn’t helped him outperform the party, in fact the opposite seems to be the case. He may well even be polling a lower vote share than at the last election.

    Secondly, the BNP and English Democrats between them managed a 12% share in 2010. UKIP seems to have been effective at taking votes from far-right parties, so it might have done so here. David Herdson posted about this here on PB six months ago, along with some local factors which could be relevant.

    It’s also worth noting that Tory voters aren’t known for voting tactically. Would the opportunity to decapitate Labour change that? We might not know until May, but tomorrow we’ll at least have some idea how much tactical voting would be needed.

    http://www.ncpolitics.uk/2014/11/marginals-update-plus-doncaster-north.html
  • Best Prices - Doncaster North (Ed Miliband majority = 10,909)

    Lab 1/50 (PP)
    UKIP 16/1 (Hills)
    Con 50/1
    100 bar
  • I see Ms Sturgeon is all set to demonstrate how much damage the politics of envy can do to an economy:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30193791

    I particularly enjoyed the attack on Scotland's very successful grouse-shooting businesses. Quite what other uses she envisages for grouse moors will be amusing to see.

    Ah! The Grice, Wot! Shoot Em! The Glorious 12th Wot! And the eagles, buzzards, falcons, kestrels at any other time Wot! Great Sport!

    Of course the Grice Shoot'n came in to being once the wool market collapsed and all the cheviots ended up as stew. And what was there before the Cheviots? Oh yes, people, subsistence farming.

    They were kept in servitude to maintain the lairds in good standing in the clubs and brothels of London.

    The rights and wrongs of the Clearances are, and have been, disputed for long enough.

    It could be seen as the cause and effect of the retaliation after the 1745 rebellion which extended well into the 19th century.

    But, back to the grouse. Unless you have access to a grouse shoot by knowing the land owner, it will cost well over £2000 a day, plus the cost of the travel, clothes, guns, cartridges, hire of keeper and dogs and you will only get to keep a brace. The rest will be going to the hotel and restaurant trade.

    And the real laugh, they still make a massive financial loss but give a great deal of "face" to the owner, which could of course be a reason for being seen as very successful.
  • This brings a new twist to JackW's occasional refrain that "Ed Miliband Will Not Be Prime Minister".

    What happens to the Labour leadership rulebook if the party scrapes a majority, but Ed Miliband is unseated in Doncaster North?

    Fun times.
  • For those of a nervous, excitable, irascible or irrational disposition, I recommend looking at random at some of the PB archives on the right, for the period November 2009-May 2010.

    During the Cleggasm, I remember some Lib Dems talking about Witney being a Lib Dem gain.
    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/28/how-do-the-old-firm-respond-to-this/

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/27/tonights-polls/

    Even better:

    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/27/could-the-lds-get-most-seats-with-36pc/
    Yes, the Lib Dems gain Witney thing was set in motion by tim, from some bogus polling figures that appeared on Twitter.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,378

    This brings a new twist to JackW's occasional refrain that "Ed Miliband Will Not Be Prime Minister".

    What happens to the Labour leadership rulebook if the party scrapes a majority, but Ed Miliband is unseated in Doncaster North?

    Fun times.

    Send for David? :D

  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited November 2014
    Just when you thought it could not get any worse then Labour come up with this comment......


    Daily Telegraph


    Scottish MPs 'to vote on English taxes' after devolution deal

    The parties reach a deal to transfer a swathe of new tax and spending powers to the Scottish Parliament but Labour insiders say

    "Scottish MPs will retain full voting rights on Westminster Budgets"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11256771/Scottish-MPs-to-vote-on-English-taxes-after-devolution-deal.html


    I forecast a riot.
  • Shadsy has removed all his Scottish seat prices. Again.

    The SNP are now FAV for East Dunbartonshire at Paddy Power. I got on when we were at 80/1 in May. Made two subsequent punts at 33/1. Now 5/4.

    East Dunbartonshire - Result 2010

    LD (Jo Swinson) 18,551
    Lab 16,367
    Con 7,431
    SNP 5,054
    UKIP 545

    Current PP prices:

    SNP 5/4
    Lab 6/4
    LD 9/4
    100 bar
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    So there exists the possibility, however faint, that Labour could win a majority but its leader lose his seat at the same time. An amusing possibility, and it would be interesting to see how they react, especially as a Labour government not led by Miliband seems to be what people would prefer, and would he have the strength to maintain leadership and get someone else to stand down for him to win and get back in the Commons and so on.

    How long has it been that an entrenched party insider gifted a safe seat after years in the back offices has actually lost though? I know Balls came close.
  • dr_spyn said:

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1m1 minute ago
    Latest ComRes/itv poll of marginals suggests that LAB still strong
    Con 31% (+1)
    Lab 39% (-2)
    LD 7% (+1)
    UKIP 18% (+1)

    But getting weaker.
  • The fine print of Nicola's proposed reform of Scots inheritance law is a ticking time-bomb under the country's landed nobility. One wonders what the owner of the Balmoral estate thinks of this.

    - "... the simple logic of the Scottish Government's policy here... extending legal rights to land is more than just a technicality. It strikes at the heart of the legal system of succession which is instrumental in upholding and maintaining landownership in its current form."

    http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.se/2014/11/the-buggers-are-out-to-get-us.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,889
    ScottP/Mark Hopkins Polls showed Scots wanted devomax but not independence, ultimately that is what they got
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    dr_spyn said:

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1m1 minute ago
    Latest ComRes/itv poll of marginals suggests that LAB still strong
    Con 31% (+1)
    Lab 39% (-2)
    LD 7% (+1)
    UKIP 18% (+1)

    But getting weaker.
    Wasn't Kinnock some 20 points or so ahead etc etc but still then lost?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2014
    I'm trying hard to think of a downside for England of having ideologically-driven lefty loons driving wealth out of Scotland into England, and leaving Scotland to pay its own bills out of what's left, but I'm struggling.
  • Moses_ said:

    Just when you thought it could not get any worse then Labour come up with this comment......


    Daily Telegraph


    Scottish MPs 'to vote on English taxes' after devolution deal

    The parties reach a deal to transfer a swathe of new tax and spending powers to the Scottish Parliament but Labour insiders say

    "Scottish MPs will retain full voting rights on Westminster Budgets"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11256771/Scottish-MPs-to-vote-on-English-taxes-after-devolution-deal.html


    I forecast a riot.

    Laugh a minute.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,063

    Best Prices - Doncaster North (Ed Miliband majority = 10,909)

    Lab 1/50 (PP)
    UKIP 16/1 (Hills)
    Con 50/1
    100 bar

    Nice to see you back on here Stuart. Are there any odds on a Labour win but Ed Miliband not being PM?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Moses_ said:

    Just when you thought it could not get any worse then Labour come up with this comment......

    Scottish MPs 'to vote on English taxes' after devolution deal

    The parties reach a deal to transfer a swathe of new tax and spending powers to the Scottish Parliament but Labour insiders say

    "Scottish MPs will retain full voting rights on Westminster Budgets"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11256771/Scottish-MPs-to-vote-on-English-taxes-after-devolution-deal.html

    I forecast a riot.

    Their positions on so many things are utterly astonishing.

    They have been brushed aside with their objections to Scotland having income tax control, and there is no way that England will put up with them.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Bloody nats

    SNP MSP Christine Grahame has explained why she would consider standing for the party over the border in Berwick-Upon-Tweed at the next general election.

    She said she believed the area had "much in common" with her Scottish Parliament constituency of Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale.

    Ms Grahame added it would be up to her party's national executive to decide whether to take the idea forward.

    She said it was a "fairly serious proposal" on her part.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-30217248

    National party, must be in leader debates.
  • MaxPB said:

    Best Prices - Doncaster North (Ed Miliband majority = 10,909)

    Lab 1/50 (PP)
    UKIP 16/1 (Hills)
    Con 50/1
    100 bar

    Nice to see you back on here Stuart. Are there any odds on a Labour win but Ed Miliband not being PM?
    Thanks Max!

    Not that I am aware of., However, Paddy Power and Unibet have a "PM after GE" market:

    Miliband 4/5
    Cameron EVS
    Johnson 9/1
    May 15/1
    Cooper 16/1
    33 bar

    So, the best-priced LAB contender after Miliband is Yvette Cooper.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Alistair said:

    National party, must be in leader debates.

    If there is one thing that will absolutely guarantee a Tory government, it is SNP politicians talking to England.
  • While it seems unlikely Ed Miliband will lose his Doncaster seat in 2015 it just adds to the continuing negative narrative that seems to be building day by day, and with 6 months to go that is a lot of days
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    dr_spyn said:

    Smith Commission - proposal for tax raising powers extended in Scotland. Would be like giving alcoholics keys to a drink cabinet. Sturgeon looks likely to push income & corporation tax rates up rather than down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30220017

    But problem passed on to next UK government post 2015 election.

    Scotland isn't going to get Corporation tax. It's going to get the cosmetic, ludicrous and damaging 'control' over Income tax.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Criticise Ed the Dud, and you're an Anti Semite? Smacks of desperation.
    doesn't it just
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Moses_ said:

    Just when you thought it could not get any worse then Labour come up with this comment......


    Daily Telegraph


    Scottish MPs 'to vote on English taxes' after devolution deal

    The parties reach a deal to transfer a swathe of new tax and spending powers to the Scottish Parliament but Labour insiders say

    "Scottish MPs will retain full voting rights on Westminster Budgets"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11256771/Scottish-MPs-to-vote-on-English-taxes-after-devolution-deal.html


    I forecast a riot.

    Laugh a minute.
    Is it a 'Boom' or a 'Tipping Point'?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937

    MaxPB said:

    Best Prices - Doncaster North (Ed Miliband majority = 10,909)

    Lab 1/50 (PP)
    UKIP 16/1 (Hills)
    Con 50/1
    100 bar

    Nice to see you back on here Stuart. Are there any odds on a Labour win but Ed Miliband not being PM?
    Thanks Max!

    Not that I am aware of., However, Paddy Power and Unibet have a "PM after GE" market:

    Miliband 4/5
    Cameron EVS
    Johnson 9/1
    May 15/1
    Cooper 16/1
    33 bar

    So, the best-priced LAB contender after Miliband is Yvette Cooper.
    Wot? No Harriet Haman? Surely, as Deputy Labour Leader......
  • Shadsy cuts his price yet again on the SNP getting more MPs than the struggling SLABbers:

    Ladbrokes - Most Scottish seats?

    SNP 1/2 (from EVS two days ago)
    Lab 6/4 (from 8/11 two days ago)
    UKIP 200/1
    Con 200/1

    (Just a tiny detail, but is is extremely rare for Shadsy to price no-hopers at longer that 100/1. The Scottish Conservative brand is so fatally crippled that even the normal floor is simply too high.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited November 2014

    While it seems unlikely Ed Miliband will lose his Doncaster seat in 2015 it just adds to the continuing negative narrative that seems to be building day by day, and with 6 months to go that is a lot of days

    True enough, but to win the Tories need to improve their polling further, not just have Labour decline, and particularly where it counts, that isn't happening it would seem.

    At least 2015 might end up proving that people vote for a party, not a PM, and diminish the strength of party leaders, for good and ill.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited November 2014
    @Mr_Eugenides: “@ScotNational: Just finished issue number 4 … And here it is . http://t.co/9erBxuM2TB” >Yep. Looks like an SNP press officer’s wet dream.

    Interesting take on it here

    http://www.scottishreview.net/KennethRoy190.shtml

    @Mr_Eugenides: Hilariously, since Monday The National has quietly added Shetland to the map of Scotland on its masthead. Mustn’t forget the oil!
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    Moses_ said:

    Just when you thought it could not get any worse then Labour come up with this comment......


    Daily Telegraph


    Scottish MPs 'to vote on English taxes' after devolution deal

    The parties reach a deal to transfer a swathe of new tax and spending powers to the Scottish Parliament but Labour insiders say

    "Scottish MPs will retain full voting rights on Westminster Budgets"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11256771/Scottish-MPs-to-vote-on-English-taxes-after-devolution-deal.html


    I forecast a riot.

    I do sometimes wonder if the Labour Party is just a great big joke that has yet to be rumbled. They can't seriously intend to go into a general election with that millstone hanging around their neck?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,566

    ...with 6 months to go that is a lot of days

    You're expecting a second election on May 26 2015?
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited November 2014

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    No, as I've said the Westminster model convention is that he would remain as PM outside of the Commons [and get one bite at the cherry to get back in via a by-election].
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,889
    RichardN Albeit the SNP are committed to cutting corporation tax
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Making a move?

    @JohnRentoul: "I'd like to see tax at the lowest levels possible... I didn’t go into politics to tax people" @ChukaUmunna LBC https://t.co/8cDoVFkSsp

    Explicitly campaigning against "pointing at things and taxing them"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    RodCrosby said:

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    No, as I've said the Westminster model convention is that he would remain as PM outside of the Commons [and get one bite at the cherry to get back in via a by-election].
    That is the convention, but could there not be an adjustment as a result of his weakness as a result? That is, even though technically he could be PM and get back in via a by-election, would the party want him back, having him just be humiliated even as they as a group triumphed? Perhaps he would not bother, or be convinced not to bother.
  • MaxPB said:

    Best Prices - Doncaster North (Ed Miliband majority = 10,909)

    Lab 1/50 (PP)
    UKIP 16/1 (Hills)
    Con 50/1
    100 bar

    Nice to see you back on here Stuart. Are there any odds on a Labour win but Ed Miliband not being PM?
    Thanks Max!

    Not that I am aware of., However, Paddy Power and Unibet have a "PM after GE" market:

    Miliband 4/5
    Cameron EVS
    Johnson 9/1
    May 15/1
    Cooper 16/1
    33 bar

    So, the best-priced LAB contender after Miliband is Yvette Cooper.
    Wot? No Harriet Haman? Surely, as Deputy Labour Leader......
    Harman is 80/1 to be the next PM (BetVictor). Feel free to get on! Not sure I fancy a ride on that particular old nag.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    RodCrosby said:

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    No, as I've said the Westminster model convention is that he would remain as PM outside of the Commons [and get one bite at the cherry to get back in via a by-election].
    Riiiiiiight...... Wouldn't be farcical at all then.

    PMQ's would be fun. LotO could shout them out a Westminster window, and Ed could stand on Palace Green, shouting his answers back.....


  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    kle4 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    No, as I've said the Westminster model convention is that he would remain as PM outside of the Commons [and get one bite at the cherry to get back in via a by-election].
    That is the convention, but could there not be an adjustment as a result of his weakness as a result? That is, even though technically he could be PM and get back in via a by-election, would the party want him back, having him just be humiliated even as they as a group triumphed? Perhaps he would not bother, or be convinced not to bother.
    It's not the party, but HM Queen who would give him his commission...
    [The Labour party rules make it virtually impossible to depose a sitting PM, in any case]
  • glw said:

    Moses_ said:

    Just when you thought it could not get any worse then Labour come up with this comment......


    Daily Telegraph


    Scottish MPs 'to vote on English taxes' after devolution deal

    The parties reach a deal to transfer a swathe of new tax and spending powers to the Scottish Parliament but Labour insiders say

    "Scottish MPs will retain full voting rights on Westminster Budgets"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11256771/Scottish-MPs-to-vote-on-English-taxes-after-devolution-deal.html


    I forecast a riot.

    I do sometimes wonder if the Labour Party is just a great big joke that has yet to be rumbled. They can't seriously intend to go into a general election with that millstone hanging around their neck?

    Of course, in the real world all the parties have signed up to it, given that this is a cross-party agreement.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited November 2014
    RodCrosby said:

    kle4 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    No, as I've said the Westminster model convention is that he would remain as PM outside of the Commons [and get one bite at the cherry to get back in via a by-election].
    That is the convention, but could there not be an adjustment as a result of his weakness as a result? That is, even though technically he could be PM and get back in via a by-election, would the party want him back, having him just be humiliated even as they as a group triumphed? Perhaps he would not bother, or be convinced not to bother.
    It's not the party, but HM Queen who would give him his commission...
    [The Labour party rules make it virtually impossible to depose a sitting PM, in any case]
    Yes I know she would give him his commission, but as the idea is pretty fixed that the PM will sit in the Commons, an idea that was not fixed in convention until it was tested whether the alternative would now be acceptable, and he would get another not of the cherry to get back in via a by-election as you put it. If his own party quietly makes it known they don't see the benefit of that, that in effect that in the circumstances they found themselves in they think a new leader will be needed, and he were to decide not to try to get back in the Commons, wouldn't the convention have been amended yet further, and would the Queen be advised to appoint someone else until it was clear who would best be able to command a majority, that is to say whoever Labour ended up picking? That's how these conventions develop after all, a new situation demanding a new approach or what is technically permissable running against what has been deemed politically acceptable.

    Whatever the Labour party rules, since we are merely speaking of a hypothetical and unlikely scenario, if they simply refused to have anyone stand down so Ed could fight a by-election, and made that be known somehow right away, it could well be Ed was never granted a commission by the Queen - she doesn't have to appoint someone the next day or anything - so he would not have to be formally deposed as PM as he would never have been PM.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited November 2014

    RodCrosby said:

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    No, as I've said the Westminster model convention is that he would remain as PM outside of the Commons [and get one bite at the cherry to get back in via a by-election].
    Riiiiiiight...... Wouldn't be farcical at all then.

    PMQ's would be fun. LotO could shout them out a Westminster window, and Ed could stand on Palace Green, shouting his answers back.....


    Don't think that's possible. As I recollect Parliament outlawed protests on Palace or Parliament green .

    He could of course use video conferencing or as a last resort semaphore
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Of course, in the real world all the parties have signed up to it, given that this is a cross-party agreement.

    At least two parties think EV4EL is the balancing requirement.

  • 'Scottish Labour in despair'
    ... Shadow cabinet member: “If the Tories win next year that’s it now, it’s [Scotland’s] gone … It is very frightening.”

    Labour MP, former minister: “We walked straight into the trap … I don’t see how we win a second referendum.”

    Me: “I keep looking for a Scottish Labour MP who doesn’t think this is a complete disaster.”

    Scottish Labour MP: “Well you’d better keep looking … I can’t see any point in carrying on with this (job) now.”

    Shadow cabinet member: “We had no choice, we were boxed in … But yeah, it could be the end.”

    Labour MP: “I don’t see how this doesn’t lead to independence …. I just can’t see it going anywhere else.”

    Former Labour whip: “We have been completely and utterly out-manoeuvred.”

    The Smith Commission announces its findings tomorrow morning.
    http://blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-on-politics/scottish-labour-despair/29709#sthash.F3Y4MNMp.dpuf
  • It is the perception by the general public who are not interested in politics at present but see the news headlines daily about Ed Miliband that will have an increasing negative influence for him and is bound to effect their voting intention in the polling booths. Also the real test will become more apparent when we turn into 2015 and to that end the polls at present are most unlikely to be even near May 2015 result. 'A week is a long time in politics '
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,378
    YouGov get's later...
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    'Scottish Labour in despair'

    ... Shadow cabinet member: “If the Tories win next year that’s it now, it’s [Scotland’s] gone … It is very frightening.”

    Labour MP, former minister: “We walked straight into the trap … I don’t see how we win a second referendum.”

    Me: “I keep looking for a Scottish Labour MP who doesn’t think this is a complete disaster.”

    Scottish Labour MP: “Well you’d better keep looking … I can’t see any point in carrying on with this (job) now.”

    Shadow cabinet member: “We had no choice, we were boxed in … But yeah, it could be the end.”

    Labour MP: “I don’t see how this doesn’t lead to independence …. I just can’t see it going anywhere else.”

    Former Labour whip: “We have been completely and utterly out-manoeuvred.”

    The Smith Commission announces its findings tomorrow morning.
    http://blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-on-politics/scottish-labour-despair/29709#sthash.F3Y4MNMp.dpuf

    What is your prediction for what will happen in Scotland in May?
  • GIN1138 said:

    It would be very funny if Miliband lost his seat's but Labour had most seats/majority.

    It would be superb.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    The signs have been there all year for those prepared to look at things with an open mind...

    This from January

    "If Doncaster North is Miliband-land, it doesn’t feel much like it. The Labour vote here collapsed from 34,000 in 1992 to 19,000 in 2010. In Doncaster's three seats, Labour has lost 40,000 votes since 1992.

    Graham is nearing retirement age and has “always been Labour”. No longer. “I don't vote for them any more – I think they've let us down.” All politicians “p*ss in the same pot – they’re all being tarred now by the same brush because they've been fiddling bucks. They’re just getting an 11 per cent pay rise? I’ve had a four per cent pay rise in five years and I work 55 hours a week.”

    In this year’s European elections, Graham will cast his ballot for Ukip. “I’m not Conservative – I couldn’t vote Conservative – and they’re the only party left.” Anti-Tory feeling – a quarter of all Northerners don’t know anyone who votes Conservatives – has extended to the Liberal Democrats as a result of the Coalition and cuts. This leaves Ukip ready to pounce on those who are fed up with Labour."

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timwigmore/100254439/why-labour-should-be-terrified-of-ukip-2/
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954

    glw said:

    Moses_ said:

    Just when you thought it could not get any worse then Labour come up with this comment......


    Daily Telegraph


    Scottish MPs 'to vote on English taxes' after devolution deal

    The parties reach a deal to transfer a swathe of new tax and spending powers to the Scottish Parliament but Labour insiders say

    "Scottish MPs will retain full voting rights on Westminster Budgets"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11256771/Scottish-MPs-to-vote-on-English-taxes-after-devolution-deal.html


    I forecast a riot.

    I do sometimes wonder if the Labour Party is just a great big joke that has yet to be rumbled. They can't seriously intend to go into a general election with that millstone hanging around their neck?

    Of course, in the real world all the parties have signed up to it, given that this is a cross-party agreement.

    Labour didn't want a change to MPs voting rights, the Tories did but didn't get their way. This will be rightly pinned on to the Labour Party.
  • chestnut said:

    Of course, in the real world all the parties have signed up to it, given that this is a cross-party agreement.

    At least two parties think EV4EL is the balancing requirement.

    Don't confuse the idiot, it's late.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,149
    edited November 2014

    RodCrosby said:

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    No, as I've said the Westminster model convention is that he would remain as PM outside of the Commons [and get one bite at the cherry to get back in via a by-election].
    Riiiiiiight...... Wouldn't be farcical at all then.

    PMQ's would be fun. LotO could shout them out a Westminster window, and Ed could stand on Palace Green, shouting his answers back.....


    Of course if Murphy wins the SLab leadership, a similar scenario would obtain at Holyrood FMQs with him as the LotO (though I'm sure the MSM would do their best to give Jim a platform).
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I'm trying hard to think of a downside for England of having ideologically-driven lefty loons driving wealth out of Scotland into England, and leaving Scotland to pay its own bills out of what's left, but I'm struggling.

    An influx of immigrants antagonising the English Yeomanry?
  • chestnut said:

    Of course, in the real world all the parties have signed up to it, given that this is a cross-party agreement.

    At least two parties think EV4EL is the balancing requirement.

    But all the parties have agreed that all MPs will vote on the UK budget, which - of course - is as it should be.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories take one point lead, Lib Dems drop to fifth: CON 33%, LAB 32%, LD 6%, UKIP 16%, GRN 7%
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,961
    edited November 2014
    EpicLolz, again

    @Sun_Politics

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories take one point lead, Lib Dems drop to fifth: CON 33%, LAB 32%, LD 6%, UKIP 16%, GRN 7%
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Evening all, although decapitation campaigns never work as we saw with the LibDem efforts against top Tories in 2005 (who all substantially increased their majorities), IF Ed loses his Doncaster seat and IF Labour wins the GE, it would be incredibly funny if not a single Labour MP offered to retire to make way for Ed in a by-election or if one could be found, if Ed then duly lost the by-election.
  • ...with 6 months to go that is a lot of days

    You're expecting a second election on May 26 2015?
    Who knows Nick !!!!!!
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    If he Labour leader goes under in Doncaster, Labour are heading into Lib Dem territory.

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories take one point lead, Lib Dems drop to fifth: CON 33%, LAB 32%, LD 6%, UKIP 16%, GRN 7%
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Hurrah!! Blues back on top
    CON - 33% (+1)
    LAB - 32% (-1)
    UKIP - 16% (-)
    GRN - 7% (+1)
    LDEM - 6% (-1)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,378
    edited November 2014
    WOW You guys are fast!
  • RodCrosby said:

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    No, as I've said the Westminster model convention is that he would remain as PM outside of the Commons [and get one bite at the cherry to get back in via a by-election].
    He wouldn't be 'remaining as PM' though. He'd have to be appointed as PM while outside the Commons, which I'm not sure is something the country, parliament or his party would accept. I'd also be wary about putting too much weight on conventions that are based either outside Britain or from 50 years and more ago.

    In such circumstances, a great deal would depend on the political strength of the individual in question. Miliband's is so weak that providing the Labour shadow cabinet could unite around an individual, they could mount an effective palace coup, which would have wide support and could easily be ratified by the NEC. After all, as you say yourself, HMQ gives her commission to someone to form a government based on who is most likely to be able to do so. There is no need for that person to be a party leader and on rare occasions in the past, they have not been.
  • The "Tory collapse in England" gathers momentum according to YouGov!
  • RodCrosby said:

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    No, as I've said the Westminster model convention is that he would remain as PM outside of the Commons [and get one bite at the cherry to get back in via a by-election].

    Most likely, surely, is that Ed will finally twig he's not wanted as Labour leader and will resign.

  • Paging Neil, another poll showing the Greens outpolling the Lib Dems.

    I'm going to be generous, and extend the early settlement discount offer until the 31st of December 2014
  • Danny565 said:

    'Scottish Labour in despair'

    ... Shadow cabinet member: “If the Tories win next year that’s it now, it’s [Scotland’s] gone … It is very frightening.”

    Labour MP, former minister: “We walked straight into the trap … I don’t see how we win a second referendum.”

    Me: “I keep looking for a Scottish Labour MP who doesn’t think this is a complete disaster.”

    Scottish Labour MP: “Well you’d better keep looking … I can’t see any point in carrying on with this (job) now.”

    Shadow cabinet member: “We had no choice, we were boxed in … But yeah, it could be the end.”

    Labour MP: “I don’t see how this doesn’t lead to independence …. I just can’t see it going anywhere else.”

    Former Labour whip: “We have been completely and utterly out-manoeuvred.”

    The Smith Commission announces its findings tomorrow morning.
    http://blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-on-politics/scottish-labour-despair/29709#sthash.F3Y4MNMp.dpuf
    What is your prediction for what will happen in Scotland in May?

    Don't know. Don't care.

    What I do predict is that I will now see my country regaining her sovereignty within my lifetime. I have never been able to say that before. And boy oh boy oh boy, it feels good! Really, really good!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Moses_ said:

    RodCrosby said:

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    No, as I've said the Westminster model convention is that he would remain as PM outside of the Commons [and get one bite at the cherry to get back in via a by-election].
    Riiiiiiight...... Wouldn't be farcical at all then.

    PMQ's would be fun. LotO could shout them out a Westminster window, and Ed could stand on Palace Green, shouting his answers back.....


    Don't think that's possible. As I recollect Parliament outlawed protests on Palace or Parliament green .

    He could of course use video conferencing or as a last resort semaphore
    Semaphore - lol!!

  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Labour ahead in 3 of the last 9 Yougovs.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    isam said:

    The signs have been there all year for those prepared to look at things with an open mind...

    This from January

    "If Doncaster North is Miliband-land, it doesn’t feel much like it. The Labour vote here collapsed from 34,000 in 1992 to 19,000 in 2010. In Doncaster's three seats, Labour has lost 40,000 votes since 1992.

    Graham is nearing retirement age and has “always been Labour”. No longer. “I don't vote for them any more – I think they've let us down.” All politicians “p*ss in the same pot – they’re all being tarred now by the same brush because they've been fiddling bucks. They’re just getting an 11 per cent pay rise? I’ve had a four per cent pay rise in five years and I work 55 hours a week.”

    In this year’s European elections, Graham will cast his ballot for Ukip. “I’m not Conservative – I couldn’t vote Conservative – and they’re the only party left.” Anti-Tory feeling – a quarter of all Northerners don’t know anyone who votes Conservatives – has extended to the Liberal Democrats as a result of the Coalition and cuts. This leaves Ukip ready to pounce on those who are fed up with Labour."

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timwigmore/100254439/why-labour-should-be-terrified-of-ukip-2/


    I wonder how a "None of the above Democratic Peoples Popular Party" (NOTAPPP) would fair in such a scenario?
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915

    Danny565 said:

    'Scottish Labour in despair'

    ... Shadow cabinet member: “If the Tories win next year that’s it now, it’s [Scotland’s] gone … It is very frightening.”

    Labour MP, former minister: “We walked straight into the trap … I don’t see how we win a second referendum.”

    Me: “I keep looking for a Scottish Labour MP who doesn’t think this is a complete disaster.”

    Scottish Labour MP: “Well you’d better keep looking … I can’t see any point in carrying on with this (job) now.”

    Shadow cabinet member: “We had no choice, we were boxed in … But yeah, it could be the end.”

    Labour MP: “I don’t see how this doesn’t lead to independence …. I just can’t see it going anywhere else.”

    Former Labour whip: “We have been completely and utterly out-manoeuvred.”

    The Smith Commission announces its findings tomorrow morning.
    http://blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-on-politics/scottish-labour-despair/29709#sthash.F3Y4MNMp.dpuf
    What is your prediction for what will happen in Scotland in May?
    Don't know. Don't care.

    What I do predict is that I will now see my country regaining her sovereignty within my lifetime. I have never been able to say that before. And boy oh boy oh boy, it feels good! Really, really good!


    Stuart, Sweden gained its independence centuries ago :)
  • HYUFD said:

    RichardN Albeit the SNP are committed to cutting corporation tax

    Given where oil prices are, in reality that might not be possible if Scotland were independent. What was the basis for the SNP's economic prospectus for iScotland? £110 a barrel, wasn't it?

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    "Britain's benefits system is being abused to fund terrorism, a senior police officer has warned.

    Terri Nicholson, from the Metropolitan Police’s counter-terrorism command unit, said that taxpayers’ money was being claimed fraudulently and used by terrorists in countries such as Iraq and Syria.

    She said there had been “a number of cases” recently of terrorists making fraudulent student loan claims to fund their activities"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11256882/Jihadists-funded-by-welfare-benefits-senior-police-officer-warns.html
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Evening all, although decapitation campaigns never work as we saw with the LibDem efforts against top Tories in 2005 (who all substantially increased their majorities), IF Ed loses his Doncaster seat and IF Labour wins the GE, it would be incredibly funny if not a single Labour MP offered to retire to make way for Ed in a by-election or if one could be found, if Ed then duly lost the by-election.

    Not quite true as the Lib Dems did win Westmorland in 2005
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,378
    Look at the numbers here under "Con Lead"

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/yougov-voting-intention

    Something significant has happened since 1st October, IMO.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    "Home Secretary Theresa May buried criticism of Britain’s asylum system by delaying and manipulating the publication of independent inspection reports, the head of the Government’s immigration watchdog has warned MPs.

    In a letter to the Public Accounts Committee, John Vine reveals that the Home Secretary is currently sitting on five reports believed to be critical of the Government, one of which was completed five months ago.

    Mr Vine, the chief inspector of borders and immigration, warns the MPs that the failure to publish his reports in a “timely” manner is “reducing their impact” and has “compromised” the independence of his role.

    His letter, which comes just months after he announced he was stepping down early, raises serious questions about the extent to which Ms May’s is attempting to control critical stories about immigration in the run up to the election. It will also fuel suspicions that the Tories are unwilling to allow the publication of critical reports"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11256823/Theresa-May-delayed-critical-reports-on-immigration.html
  • GIN1138 said:

    Look at the numbers here under "Con Lead"

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/yougov-voting-intention

    Something significant has happened since 1st October, IMO.

    The first of October was when Dave made his conference speech.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Danny565 said:

    'Scottish Labour in despair'

    ... Shadow cabinet member: “If the Tories win next year that’s it now, it’s [Scotland’s] gone … It is very frightening.”

    Labour MP, former minister: “We walked straight into the trap … I don’t see how we win a second referendum.”

    Me: “I keep looking for a Scottish Labour MP who doesn’t think this is a complete disaster.”

    Scottish Labour MP: “Well you’d better keep looking … I can’t see any point in carrying on with this (job) now.”

    Shadow cabinet member: “We had no choice, we were boxed in … But yeah, it could be the end.”

    Labour MP: “I don’t see how this doesn’t lead to independence …. I just can’t see it going anywhere else.”

    Former Labour whip: “We have been completely and utterly out-manoeuvred.”

    The Smith Commission announces its findings tomorrow morning.
    http://blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-on-politics/scottish-labour-despair/29709#sthash.F3Y4MNMp.dpuf
    What is your prediction for what will happen in Scotland in May?
    Don't know. Don't care.

    What I do predict is that I will now see my country regaining her sovereignty within my lifetime. I have never been able to say that before. And boy oh boy oh boy, it feels good! Really, really good!


    How long are you planning on living for?
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915

    Evening all, although decapitation campaigns never work as we saw with the LibDem efforts against top Tories in 2005 (who all substantially increased their majorities), IF Ed loses his Doncaster seat and IF Labour wins the GE, it would be incredibly funny if not a single Labour MP offered to retire to make way for Ed in a by-election or if one could be found, if Ed then duly lost the by-election.

    Not quite true as the Lib Dems did win Westmorland in 2005
    Mark I don't remember Tim Collins being a decapitation target. On the other hand Oliver Letwin, Michael Howard, Theresa May and several others were express targets and saw a leap in their majorities.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    RodCrosby said:

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    No, as I've said the Westminster model convention is that he would remain as PM outside of the Commons [and get one bite at the cherry to get back in via a by-election].

    Most likely, surely, is that Ed will finally twig he's not wanted as Labour leader and will resign.

    I really wish the polls would get out of this horrible limbo, with numbers which are nowhere near good enough for Labour to win, yet also not quite bad enough to finally force Ed to go. If Labour fall decisively behind in the polls by Xmas, I still think Ed might decide to quit himself.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited November 2014

    The "Tory collapse in England" gathers momentum according to YouGov!

    Steve - I have a sneaking suspicion that you're going to keep trotting out that quote at every available opportunity!
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    Danny565 said:

    'Scottish Labour in despair'

    ... Shadow cabinet member: “If the Tories win next year that’s it now, it’s [Scotland’s] gone … It is very frightening.”

    Labour MP, former minister: “We walked straight into the trap … I don’t see how we win a second referendum.”

    Me: “I keep looking for a Scottish Labour MP who doesn’t think this is a complete disaster.”

    Scottish Labour MP: “Well you’d better keep looking … I can’t see any point in carrying on with this (job) now.”

    Shadow cabinet member: “We had no choice, we were boxed in … But yeah, it could be the end.”

    Labour MP: “I don’t see how this doesn’t lead to independence …. I just can’t see it going anywhere else.”

    Former Labour whip: “We have been completely and utterly out-manoeuvred.”

    The Smith Commission announces its findings tomorrow morning.
    http://blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-on-politics/scottish-labour-despair/29709#sthash.F3Y4MNMp.dpuf
    What is your prediction for what will happen in Scotland in May?
    Don't know. Don't care.

    What I do predict is that I will now see my country regaining her sovereignty within my lifetime. I have never been able to say that before. And boy oh boy oh boy, it feels good! Really, really good!


    Yes you have an outstanding record on Scottish voting intention.
  • glw said:

    glw said:

    Moses_ said:

    Just when you thought it could not get any worse then Labour come up with this comment......


    Daily Telegraph


    Scottish MPs 'to vote on English taxes' after devolution deal

    The parties reach a deal to transfer a swathe of new tax and spending powers to the Scottish Parliament but Labour insiders say

    "Scottish MPs will retain full voting rights on Westminster Budgets"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11256771/Scottish-MPs-to-vote-on-English-taxes-after-devolution-deal.html


    I forecast a riot.

    I do sometimes wonder if the Labour Party is just a great big joke that has yet to be rumbled. They can't seriously intend to go into a general election with that millstone hanging around their neck?

    Of course, in the real world all the parties have signed up to it, given that this is a cross-party agreement.

    Labour didn't want a change to MPs voting rights, the Tories did but didn't get their way. This will be rightly pinned on to the Labour Party.

    All the parties have agreed all UK MPs will get to vote on the UK budget. It's hardly revolutionary. If the Tories did not like it they could have blocked it.

  • Btw - where's SeanT these days?
  • Btw - where's SeanT these days?

    He's in Australia, for work related reasons.

    The git.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Evening all, although decapitation campaigns never work as we saw with the LibDem efforts against top Tories in 2005 (who all substantially increased their majorities), IF Ed loses his Doncaster seat and IF Labour wins the GE, it would be incredibly funny if not a single Labour MP offered to retire to make way for Ed in a by-election or if one could be found, if Ed then duly lost the by-election.

    Not quite true as the Lib Dems did win Westmorland in 2005
    Mark I don't remember Tim Collins being a decapitation target. On the other hand Oliver Letwin, Michael Howard, Theresa May and several others were express targets and saw a leap in their majorities.
    Your memory is as bad as your forecasting , Collins was one of the 5 targets .
  • Danny565 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    So, let me get this right: Ed loses his seat while Labour win the election - that gives us Prime Minister Harriet Harman? At least until the Labour Conference in September - when they vote for a new Prime Minister??

    No, as I've said the Westminster model convention is that he would remain as PM outside of the Commons [and get one bite at the cherry to get back in via a by-election].

    Most likely, surely, is that Ed will finally twig he's not wanted as Labour leader and will resign.

    I really wish the polls would get out of this horrible limbo, with numbers which are nowhere near good enough for Labour to win, yet also not quite bad enough to finally force Ed to go. If Labour fall decisively behind in the polls by Xmas, I still think Ed might decide to quit himself.

    I used to think that. But recent events indicate he is a tone deaf moron with no self-awareness. He'll cling, Brown-like to his position, incapable of understanding the damage he is doing.

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