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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Night Hawks is now open

SystemSystem Posts: 12,183
edited May 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Night Hawks is now open

If you’ve always been a lurker, and have The Reflex not to post,  Nighthawks gives you an opportunity to delurk, don’t worry, you won’t become Wild Boys or Wild Girls after posting.

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    Looks like the Mercer story gets messier

    Tony Gallagher ‏@gallaghereditor 4m

    Mercer was paid £4,000 as part of a contract he believed would earn £24,000. This cash has not yet been declared.


    Tony Gallagher ‏@gallaghereditor 51s

    Mercer boasted he had persuaded 20 MPs to back his Fiji group #mercer

    Tony Gallagher ‏@gallaghereditor 1m

    Mercer offered lobbyists a security pass for the House of Commons in an apparent breach of the rules.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited May 2013
    FPT @another_moaner

    WilliamO said:

    "I largely expect Labour to win a majority and certainly most seat.." - Henry, Does that opinion take into account the economy, which is predicted to be growing by circa 2% in 2014/2015 and Ed's gormless performances he will put in at the debates? Andy Burnham it is then!

    Are we meant to be impressed by the prospect of 2% economic growth ?

    You do realise that is lower than what the Treasury still assumes the underlying trend growth is ?

    Incidentally George Osborne predicted that the budget deficit would be reduced to £37bn in 2014/5, do you think that target will be met ?


    It is relatively impressive, ar.

    In 2013 the UK is forecast (almost universally) to grow faster than any other large country in Europe, with the UK rate of growth estimated at 0.8% by the OECD (latest forecast) at the same time as the Eurozone countries are forecast to contract by -0.6%. So, the UK is forecast to grow this year at an annual rate which is 1.4% higher than its main competitors.

    Not bad in the circumstances. Especially when the deficit is being reduced at current levels of growth at a rate of £2.5 bn per month. Get fracking and we may be able to grow as fast as the US and still reduce borrowing.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    Well that's Mercer buggered

    Tony Gallagher ‏@gallaghereditor 2m

    Mercer description of young Israeli woman soldier: 'You don't look like a soldier to me. You look like a bloody Jew.'
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Three by-elections would be a laugh.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,243
    People let you in, and thank each other when driving to work - Road manners in Sheffield are generally top class. Birmingham drivers on the other hand...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,243
    All together now:

    What do we want ? Three By-Elections
    When do we want it ? As soon as the writ(s) can be passed.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,936
    @NickPalmer (or anybody else more up on these things than I am)

    If Mercer had declared his interest on behalf of this lobbying firm or their putative client would that have been ok? Is it failing to disclose his financial interest in the questions that he has apparently asked that is the problem?
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    I don't understand half of this:

    'In Brighton, Conservatives could find the answer to their Ukip worries
    The city by the sea that attracts alternative viewpoints is just the sort of place for a Tory revival'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10091644/In-Brighton-Conservatives-could-find-the-answer-to-their-Ukip-worries.html
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,962
    That departing train station mentioned in the header is hilarious!
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    I haven't followed this. Is Mercer accused of being paid to ask questions on behalf of a foreign government?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Well that's Mercer buggered

    Tony Gallagher ‏@gallaghereditor 2m

    Mercer description of young Israeli woman soldier: 'You don't look like a soldier to me. You look like a bloody Jew.'

    If true, Mercer is dead meat floating.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,544
    " Sheffield is the happiest city in Britain"

    And it's got Nick Clegg as one of it's MP's!
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    It will wear off, I'm sure.
    Carola said:

    I don't understand half of this:

    'In Brighton, Conservatives could find the answer to their Ukip worries
    The city by the sea that attracts alternative viewpoints is just the sort of place for a Tory revival'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10091644/In-Brighton-Conservatives-could-find-the-answer-to-their-Ukip-worries.html

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,936
    Y0kel said:

    I haven't followed this. Is Mercer accused of being paid to ask questions on behalf of a foreign government?

    I think so, through a lobbying agency. As I asked earlier I am not sure there is anything wrong with that provided he discloses his financial interest. Presumably he didn't.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Carola

    I fear you are in for an infestation of Greens as that Brighton by-election seems to be set for 11 July.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,936
    edited May 2013
    AveryLP said:

    FPT @another_moaner

    WilliamO said:

    "I largely expect Labour to win a majority and certainly most seat.." - Henry, Does that opinion take into account the economy, which is predicted to be growing by circa 2% in 2014/2015 and Ed's gormless performances he will put in at the debates? Andy Burnham it is then!

    Are we meant to be impressed by the prospect of 2% economic growth ?

    You do realise that is lower than what the Treasury still assumes the underlying trend growth is ?

    Incidentally George Osborne predicted that the budget deficit would be reduced to £37bn in 2014/5, do you think that target will be met ?


    It is relatively impressive, ar.

    In 2013 the UK is forecast (almost universally) to grow faster than any other large country in Europe, with the UK rate of growth estimated at 0.8% by the OECD (latest forecast) at the same time as the Eurozone countries are forecast to contract by -0.6%. So, the UK is forecast to grow this year at an annual rate which is 1.4% higher than its main competitors.

    Not bad in the circumstances. Especially when the deficit is being reduced at current levels of growth at a rate of £2.5 bn per month. Get fracking and we may be able to grow as fast as the US and still reduce borrowing.

    It is still the lack of borrowing by or lending to UK business that worries me. This is the less good news of the day: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10090899/Lending-to-UK-businesses-drops-sharply-in-April-BoE.html

    The failure to sort out our banking industry and free at least a part to be able to lend is costing us dear in terms of growth.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,412
    Carola said:

    I don't understand half of this:

    'In Brighton, Conservatives could find the answer to their Ukip worries
    The city by the sea that attracts alternative viewpoints is just the sort of place for a Tory revival'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10091644/In-Brighton-Conservatives-could-find-the-answer-to-their-Ukip-worries.html

    No. I like Graeme Archer, but Brighton and Hove are rapidly shifting into solidly left-wing territory. The city is the UK's San Francisco.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774

    " Sheffield is the happiest city in Britain"

    And it's got Nick Clegg as one of it's MP's!

    He will be my MP in three weeks time.

  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Neil said:

    @Carola

    I fear you are in for an infestation of Greens as that Brighton by-election seems to be set for 11 July.

    Oh gawd.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    DavidL said:

    Y0kel said:

    I haven't followed this. Is Mercer accused of being paid to ask questions on behalf of a foreign government?

    I think so, through a lobbying agency. As I asked earlier I am not sure there is anything wrong with that provided he discloses his financial interest. Presumably he didn't.
    We don't elect people to lobby on behalf of foreign governments for cash.

    Was never a big fan anyway, I remember criticising him on here before and getting my face ate off on the basis that since Mercer was a company commander at one time, his opinion should somehow be respected.

    He can sink.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,962
    edited May 2013
    Regarding Gove on Miliband, Boris set the standard with this 2003 description of the LibDems:

    "The Lib Dems are not just empty. They are a void within a vacuum surrounded by a vast inanition."

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,412
    tim said:

    Googling images of Israeli women soldiers I'm struggling to see Patrick Mercers point</

    Israel is famous for its women soldiers

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,543
    DavidL said:

    @NickPalmer (or anybody else more up on these things than I am)

    If Mercer had declared his interest on behalf of this lobbying firm or their putative client would that have been ok? Is it failing to disclose his financial interest in the questions that he has apparently asked that is the problem?

    That's the main allegation so far, though I see downthread there's something about a lobby pass. I forget exact rules but basically transparency is supposed to be the main thing.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,412
    Sean T, there is truth in Parris' article. It is so very easy to scapegoat others for one's own failings. But, it is so very wrong to deny that the Western ruling classes share an outlook that is inimical to the interests and values of the average Western voter.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    Does anyone know if there's been a survation poll been published?

    I've seen it trailed on here a few times in the last couple of days, but I can't see it anywhere on the internet.

    I'm assuming it hasn't been published?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,936

    DavidL said:

    @NickPalmer (or anybody else more up on these things than I am)

    If Mercer had declared his interest on behalf of this lobbying firm or their putative client would that have been ok? Is it failing to disclose his financial interest in the questions that he has apparently asked that is the problem?

    That's the main allegation so far, though I see downthread there's something about a lobby pass. I forget exact rules but basically transparency is supposed to be the main thing.
    Thanks Nick. I am not pretending or thinking that that is the extent of it or that it would be ok if it were. As YOkel says this is not why we elect MPs. Was it not Cameron who forecast that the next wave of scandals was going to come out of lobbying?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,543
    Carola said:

    I don't understand half of this:

    'In Brighton, Conservatives could find the answer to their Ukip worries
    The city by the sea that attracts alternative viewpoints is just the sort of place for a Tory revival'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10091644/In-Brighton-Conservatives-could-find-the-answer-to-their-Ukip-worries.html

    Odd article. Does he always write as if he's drunk?
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Carola said:

    I don't understand half of this:

    'In Brighton, Conservatives could find the answer to their Ukip worries
    The city by the sea that attracts alternative viewpoints is just the sort of place for a Tory revival'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10091644/In-Brighton-Conservatives-could-find-the-answer-to-their-Ukip-worries.html

    Odd article. Does he always write as if he's drunk?
    It reads, painfully, like he's trying to be groovy.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited May 2013
    DavidL said:

    AveryLP said:

    FPT @another_moaner

    WilliamO said:

    "I largely expect Labour to win a majority and certainly most seat.." - Henry, Does that opinion take into account the economy, which is predicted to be growing by circa 2% in 2014/2015 and Ed's gormless performances he will put in at the debates? Andy Burnham it is then!

    Are we meant to be impressed by the prospect of 2% economic growth ?

    You do realise that is lower than what the Treasury still assumes the underlying trend growth is ?

    Incidentally George Osborne predicted that the budget deficit would be reduced to £37bn in 2014/5, do you think that target will be met ?


    It is relatively impressive, ar.

    In 2013 the UK is forecast (almost universally) to grow faster than any other large country in Europe, with the UK rate of growth estimated at 0.8% by the OECD (latest forecast) at the same time as the Eurozone countries are forecast to contract by -0.6%. So, the UK is forecast to grow this year at an annual rate which is 1.4% higher than its main competitors.

    Not bad in the circumstances. Especially when the deficit is being reduced at current levels of growth at a rate of £2.5 bn per month. Get fracking and we may be able to grow as fast as the US and still reduce borrowing.

    It is still the lack of borrowing by or lending to UK business that worries me. This is the less good news of the day: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10090899/Lending-to-UK-businesses-drops-sharply-in-April-BoE.h

    The failure to sort out our banking industry and free at least a part to be able to lend is costing us dear in terms of growth.

    There is quite a bit of contraflow traffic around David.

    Retail Sales in both April and May have (or appear to be about to) disappoint. This can be argued away by pointing out holiday and weather mismatches in the comparator months but strong growth always makes such tinkering unnecessary. France, Germany and the US are also reporting flat consumer demand against growth expectations for this quarter so the UK seems to be following a global trend.

    On credit supply, only mortgage lending is up, with a £3 billion drop in lending to businesses last month, in spite of the Funding For Lending Schemes. This is offset by clear evidence of both household and corporate deleveraging but does indicate low confidence in future growth.

    Even the SWIFT growth forecasts for Q2 2013 (3 Forecast and 1 Nowcast) read in sequence 0.3, (0.1), 0.0 , 0.1, indicating declining expectations.

    OK, so all the above can be countered with more optimistic news (CBI consumer service stats, Oil and Gas output, improvements in manufacturing and construction growth rates etc.) but the overall picture is still distinctly choppy and uncertain.

    Still, on balance, the UK is outperforming competition in Europe and the worst expectation is a flatline Q2 rather than further retrenchment as is forecast on the continent.
  • NextNext Posts: 826

    Does anyone know if there's been a survation poll been published?

    I've seen it trailed on here a few times in the last couple of days, but I can't see it anywhere on the internet.

    I'm assuming it hasn't been published?

    There was one on May 25th.

    http://survation.com/2013/05/survation-for-the-mail-on-sunday-reaction-to-the-woolwich-incident/

    How often do they do them?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    Next said:

    Does anyone know if there's been a survation poll been published?

    I've seen it trailed on here a few times in the last couple of days, but I can't see it anywhere on the internet.

    I'm assuming it hasn't been published?

    There was one on May 25th.

    http://survation.com/2013/05/survation-for-the-mail-on-sunday-reaction-to-the-woolwich-incident/

    How often do they do them?
    Cheers, they do them irregularly, they did two in a week, last week.

    They are perilously close to having a Tory/UKIP crossover.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,685
    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean T, there is truth in Parris' article. It is so very easy to scapegoat others for one's own failings. But, it is so very wrong to deny that the Western ruling classes share an outlook that is inimical to the interests and values of the average Western voter.

    I find Parris's hysterical rejection of UKIP quite repulsive. UKIP are expressing the serious yet entirely democratic concerns of a very large proportion of the population. The only reason UKIP voters appear "extreme" is that the elite - especially in the UK - has managed to keep these people silent for decades, so the voice of these people, when heard, appears coarse and strange.

    The views of UKIPers would not appear extreme or strange in a more functional democracy, like America, which gives space to everyone, Tea Partiers and all.

    If he finds so many of his countrymen "extreme" and unpleasant, well then Parris is free to f*ck off to some country which is more to his liking.



    To be fair SeanT you have said much worse about parties you happen to dislike.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,685
    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean T, there is truth in Parris' article. It is so very easy to scapegoat others for one's own failings. But, it is so very wrong to deny that the Western ruling classes share an outlook that is inimical to the interests and values of the average Western voter.

    I find Parris's hysterical rejection of UKIP quite repulsive. UKIP are expressing the serious yet entirely democratic concerns of a very large proportion of the population. The only reason UKIP voters appear "extreme" is that the elite - especially in the UK - has managed to keep these people silent for decades, so the voice of these people, when heard, appears coarse and strange.

    The views of UKIPers would not appear extreme or strange in a more functional democracy, like America, which gives space to everyone, Tea Partiers and all.

    If he finds so many of his countrymen "extreme" and unpleasant, well then Parris is free to f*ck off to some country which is more to his liking.



    To be fair SeanT you have said much worse about parties you happen to dislike.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,243
    How blessed are we as a nation that neither Cameron nor Miliband can ever be head of State.

    God Bless you Ma'am http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2333812/Queen-visits-Lee-Rigbys-barracks-coroner-hears-soldier-identified-dental-records.html
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    AveryLP said:

    DavidL said:

    AveryLP said:

    FPT @another_moaner

    WilliamO said:

    "I largely expect Labour to win a majority and certainly most seat.." - Henry, Does that opinion take into account the economy, which is predicted to be growing by circa 2% in 2014/2015 and Ed's gormless performances he will put in at the debates? Andy Burnham it is then!

    Are we meant to be impressed by the prospect of 2% economic growth ?

    You do realise that is lower than what the Treasury still assumes the underlying trend growth is ?

    Incidentally George Osborne predicted that the budget deficit would be reduced to £37bn in 2014/5, do you think that target will be met ?


    It is relatively impressive, ar.

    In 2013 the UK is forecast (almost universally) to grow faster than any other large country in Europe, with the UK rate of growth estimated at 0.8% by the OECD (latest forecast) at the same time as the Eurozone countries are forecast to contract by -0.6%. So, the UK is forecast to grow this year at an annual rate which is 1.4% higher than its main competitors.

    Not bad in the circumstances. Especially when the deficit is being reduced at current levels of growth at a rate of £2.5 bn per month. Get fracking and we may be able to grow as fast as the US and still reduce borrowing.

    It is still the lack of borrowing by or lending to UK business that worries me. This is the less good news of the day: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10090899/Lending-to-UK-businesses-drops-sharply-in-April-BoE.h

    The failure to sort out our banking industry and free at least a part to be able to lend is costing us dear in terms of growth.

    There is quite a bit of contraflow traffic around David.

    Retail Sales in both April and May have (or appear to be about to) disappoint. This can be argued away by pointing out holiday and weather mismatches in the comparator months but strong growth always makes such tinkering unnecessary. France, Germany and the US are also reporting flat consumer demand against growth expectations for this quarter.

    On credit supply, only mortgage lending is up, with a £3 billion drop in lending to businesses last month, in spite of the Funding For Lending Schemes. This is offset by clear evidence of both household and corporate deleveraging but does indicate low confidence in future growth.

    Even the SWIFT growth forecasts for Q2 2013 (3 Forecast and 1 Nowcast) read in sequence 0.3, (0.1), 0.0 , 0.1, indicating declining expectations.

    OK, so all the above can be countered with more optimistic news (CBI consumer service stats, Oil and Gas output, improvements in manufacturing and construction growth rates etc.) but the overall picture is still distinctly choppy and uncertain.

    Still, on balance, the UK does is outperforming competition in Europe and the worst expectation is a flatline Q2 rather than further retrenchment as is forecast on the continent.
    I forgot to mention Lloyds Bank announcing today that it has been able to sell 5 billion of mortgage backed securities to US investment banks. I posted on this on the last thread. It is very encouraging news on the prospects for accelerating bank recapitalisation and restructuring. Probably the best piece of news for some time.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,412
    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean T, there is truth in Parris' article. It is so very easy to scapegoat others for one's own failings. But, it is so very wrong to deny that the Western ruling classes share an outlook that is inimical to the interests and values of the average Western voter.

    I find Parris's hysterical rejection of UKIP quite repulsive. UKIP are expressing the serious yet entirely democratic concerns of a very large proportion of the population. The only reason UKIP voters appear "extreme" is that the elite - especially in the UK - has managed to keep these people silent for decades, so the voice of these people, when heard, appears coarse and strange.

    The views of UKIPers would not appear extreme or strange in a more functional democracy, like America, which gives space to everyone, Tea Partiers and all.

    If he finds so many of his countrymen "extreme" and unpleasant, well then Parris is free to f*ck off to some country which is more to his liking

    Parris has an urge to atone for his own right-wing past.

    Lambasting UKIP as "extreme" is moronic. We should be grateful that in a typically British way, our "extreme" party is quite moderate. Extreme = Jobbik, or Golden Dawn



  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,685
    SeanT said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean T, there is truth in Parris' article. It is so very easy to scapegoat others for one's own failings. But, it is so very wrong to deny that the Western ruling classes share an outlook that is inimical to the interests and values of the average Western voter.

    I find Parris's hysterical rejection of UKIP quite repulsive. UKIP are expressing the serious yet entirely democratic concerns of a very large proportion of the population. The only reason UKIP voters appear "extreme" is that the elite - especially in the UK - has managed to keep these people silent for decades, so the voice of these people, when heard, appears coarse and strange.

    The views of UKIPers would not appear extreme or strange in a more functional democracy, like America, which gives space to everyone, Tea Partiers and all.

    If he finds so many of his countrymen "extreme" and unpleasant, well then Parris is free to f*ck off to some country which is more to his liking.



    To be fair SeanT you have said much worse about parties you happen to dislike.
    Sure, but I'm a manic depressive drunken thriller writer, who pens the odd amusing (or non amusing) blog on the Telegraph. Parris is an ex MP, a very senior Tory pundit, and one of the most respected columnists in the UK.

    His girly histrionics in response to the rise of the UKIP have been telling, flatulent, and ridiculous. He has made himself look a fool.
    Don't see much of a difference. You're both paid to talk bollocks in the dead tree press. You like to wind people up. Perhaps he does to. Apparently he's quite good at it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    Parliamentary rules explicitly ban MPs from undertaking “paid advocacy” on behalf of paying clients. Mr Mercer may also now be investigated by the police over potential offences of bribery and misconduct in a public office.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10092607/Exposed-deal-that-sank-cash-for-questions-MP-Mercer.html
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    Local authorities have started to cut their exposure to the Co-operative Bank after taking advice from independent advisers amid concerns about the health of the mutual lender.

    More than 100 councils have nearly half a billion pounds on deposit at the group, which was downgraded six notches by Moody’s this month over concerns that the bank’s capital was coming under pressure.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a10beec0-ca13-11e2-af47-00144feab7de.html#axzz2UuJEz5a9
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited May 2013
    "UKIP membership now stands at over 28,000"

    https://twitter.com/UKIP/status/340564147244769280

    EDIT
    On April 11th it was 25,000

    https://twitter.com/UKIP/status/322327897673191425
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,936
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    DavidL said:

    AveryLP said:

    FPT @another_moaner

    WilliamO said:

    "I largely expect Labour to win a majority and certainly most seat.." - Henry, Does that opinion take into account the economy, which is predicted to be growing by circa 2% in 2014/2015 and Ed's gormless performances he will put in at the debates? Andy Burnham it is then!

    Are we meant to be impressed by the prospect of 2% economic growth ?

    You do realise that is lower than what the Treasury still assumes the underlying trend growth is ?

    Incidentally George Osborne predicted that the budget deficit would be reduced to £37bn in 2014/5, do you think that target will be met ?


    It is relatively impressive, ar.

    In 2013 the UK is forecast (almost universally) to grow faster than any other large country in Europe, with the UK rate of growth estimated at 0.8% by the OECD (latest forecast) at the same time as the Eurozone countries are forecast to contract by -0.6%. So, the UK is forecast to grow this year at an annual rate which is 1.4% higher than its main competitors.

    Not bad in the circumstances. Especially when the deficit is being reduced at current levels of growth at a rate of £2.5 bn per month. Get fracking and we may be able to grow as fast as the US and still reduce borrowing.

    It is still the lack of borrowing by or lending to UK business that worries me. This is the less good news of the day: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10090899/Lending-to-UK-businesses-drops-sharply-in-April-BoE.h

    The failure to sort out our banking industry and free at least a part to be able to lend is costing us dear in terms of growth.

    There is quite a bit of contraflow traffic around David.

    Retail Sales in both April and May have (or appear to be about to) disappoint. This can be argued away by pointing out holiday and weather mismatches in the comparator months but strong growth always makes such tinkering unnecessary. France, Germany and the US are also reporting flat consumer demand against growth expectations for this quarter.

    On credit supply, only mortgage lending is up, with a £3 billion drop in lending to businesses last month, in spite of the Funding For Lending Schemes. This is offset by clear evidence of both household and corporate deleveraging but does indicate low confidence in future growth.

    Even the SWIFT growth forecasts for Q2 2013 (3 Forecast and 1 Nowcast) read in sequence 0.3, (0.1), 0.0 , 0.1, indicating declining expectations.

    OK, so all the above can be countered with more optimistic news (CBI consumer service stats, Oil and Gas output, improvements in manufacturing and construction growth rates etc.) but the overall picture is still distinctly choppy and uncertain.

    Still, on balance, the UK does is outperforming competition in Europe and the worst expectation is a flatline Q2 rather than further retrenchment as is forecast on the continent.
    I forgot to mention Lloyds Bank announcing today that it has been able to sell 5 billion of mortgage backed securities to US investment banks. I posted on this on the last thread. It is very encouraging news on the prospects for accelerating bank recapitalisation and restructuring. Probably the best piece of news for some time.

    Agreed although the Land Rover investment and the "China town" investment in London were both good news. None of these individual items are going to be enough unless b2b credit can be improved. It may be unfair to blame Vince given what was inherited but his department have not moved nearly fast enough on this.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    SeanT

    Re you Legoland experiences.

    According to this BBC article the Essex tourism industry doesn't appear to be doing so well:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22702004

    I do suspect there's a difference between working and middle class perceptions as to how well Britain is doing.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,243

    Local authorities have started to cut their exposure to the Co-operative Bank after taking advice from independent advisers amid concerns about the health of the mutual lender.

    More than 100 councils have nearly half a billion pounds on deposit at the group, which was downgraded six notches by Moody’s this month over concerns that the bank’s capital was coming under pressure.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a10beec0-ca13-11e2-af47-00144feab7de.html#axzz2UuJEz5a9

    They have lent out loads to Sheffield Wednesday, I am not surprised to hear they are in the brown stuff. If I was a council I'd be withdrawing right now - well I'd never have the money in there in the first place but thats another story.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,850
    Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. Eagles, sounds like a by-election is rather possible.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,850
    Mr. Dave, I've been replaying Dragon Age Origins today. I wonder if the Establishment = Ferelden and UKIP = the Blight?
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    " Sheffield is the happiest city in Britain"

    And it's got Nick Clegg as one of it's MP's!

    He will be my MP in three weeks time.


    You should go to his surgery (?) and ask him to write a piece for PB.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean T, there is truth in Parris' article. It is so very easy to scapegoat others for one's own failings. But, it is so very wrong to deny that the Western ruling classes share an outlook that is inimical to the interests and values of the average Western voter.

    I find Parris's hysterical rejection of UKIP quite repulsive. UKIP are expressing the serious yet entirely democratic concerns of a very large proportion of the population. The only reason UKIP voters appear "extreme" is that the elite - especially in the UK - has managed to keep these people silent for decades, so the voice of these people, when heard, appears coarse and strange.

    The views of UKIPers would not appear extreme or strange in a more functional democracy, like America, which gives space to everyone, Tea Partiers and all.

    If he finds so many of his countrymen "extreme" and unpleasant, well then Parris is free to f*ck off to some country which is more to his liking

    Parris has an urge to atone for his own right-wing past.

    Lambasting UKIP as "extreme" is moronic. We should be grateful that in a typically British way, our "extreme" party is quite moderate. Extreme = Jobbik, or Golden Dawn



    IIRC Parris has been that way for decades.

    In the 1980s he lived on benefits for a week in Newcastle for the World In Action TV show. He apparantly survived quite well but said he hadn't because he didn't want to appear arrogant.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    Pulpstar said:

    Local authorities have started to cut their exposure to the Co-operative Bank after taking advice from independent advisers amid concerns about the health of the mutual lender.

    More than 100 councils have nearly half a billion pounds on deposit at the group, which was downgraded six notches by Moody’s this month over concerns that the bank’s capital was coming under pressure.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a10beec0-ca13-11e2-af47-00144feab7de.html#axzz2UuJEz5a9

    They have lent out loads to Sheffield Wednesday, I am not surprised to hear they are in the brown stuff. If I was a council I'd be withdrawing right now - well I'd never have the money in there in the first place but thats another story.
    Didn't Milan Mandaric pay off that debt when he took over the Owls?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited May 2013

    Parliamentary rules explicitly ban MPs from undertaking “paid advocacy” on behalf of paying clients. Mr Mercer may also now be investigated by the police over potential offences of bribery and misconduct in a public office.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10092607/Exposed-deal-that-sank-cash-for-questions-MP-Mercer.html

    It was a set-up, a trap, organised directly by the BBC and the Telegraph and I wonder if Cammo had a finger in this, working from proxies of course. There was little love lost between the two. Nevertheless as an MP, Mercer should have known the rules, or if he was savvy should have suspected a rat. The small amounts offered and accepted show that Mercer wasn't in it for greed, but supposedly to help a former commonwealth country come in from the cold. He was a colonel in the Army but sadly, lacked street smarts.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean T, there is truth in Parris' article. It is so very easy to scapegoat others for one's own failings. But, it is so very wrong to deny that the Western ruling classes share an outlook that is inimical to the interests and values of the average Western voter.

    I find Parris's hysterical rejection of UKIP quite repulsive. UKIP are expressing the serious yet entirely democratic concerns of a very large proportion of the population. The only reason UKIP voters appear "extreme" is that the elite - especially in the UK - has managed to keep these people silent for decades, so the voice of these people, when heard, appears coarse and strange.

    The views of UKIPers would not appear extreme or strange in a more functional democracy, like America, which gives space to everyone, Tea Partiers and all.

    If he finds so many of his countrymen "extreme" and unpleasant, well then Parris is free to f*ck off to some country which is more to his liking.



    But Parris doesn't want to f*ck off elsewhere.

    He'd rather that many of his countrymen were f*ck off elsewhere and be replaced by people he found more amenable.

    Unfortunately these new people are often even more 'extreme and unpleasant' but as they would be immigrants Parris would regard it as impolite to mention this.
  • Gerry_ManderGerry_Mander Posts: 621
    SeanT said:

    SeanT

    Re you Legoland experiences.

    According to this BBC article the Essex tourism industry doesn't appear to be doing so well:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22702004

    I do suspect there's a difference between working and middle class perceptions as to how well Britain is doing.

    Legoland is in Surrey.
    Really?

    http://www.legoland.co.uk/Plan/Directions/

    LEGOLAND Windsor is located at
    Winkfield Road,
    Windsor,
    Berkshire,
    SL4 4AY
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    SeanT said:

    SeanT

    Re you Legoland experiences.

    According to this BBC article the Essex tourism industry doesn't appear to be doing so well:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22702004

    I do suspect there's a difference between working and middle class perceptions as to how well Britain is doing.

    Legoland is in Surrey.
    That's partly my point.

    Legoland, Surrey = middle class
    Southend funfare, Essex = working class

    The economic effects of gloablisation, immigration etc are hitting the working class far more than the middle class.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    Freggles said:

    " Sheffield is the happiest city in Britain"

    And it's got Nick Clegg as one of it's MP's!

    He will be my MP in three weeks time.


    You should go to his surgery (?) and ask him to write a piece for PB.

    What do you want the topic to be?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,243
    edited May 2013

    Pulpstar said:

    Local authorities have started to cut their exposure to the Co-operative Bank after taking advice from independent advisers amid concerns about the health of the mutual lender.

    More than 100 councils have nearly half a billion pounds on deposit at the group, which was downgraded six notches by Moody’s this month over concerns that the bank’s capital was coming under pressure.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a10beec0-ca13-11e2-af47-00144feab7de.html#axzz2UuJEz5a9

    They have lent out loads to Sheffield Wednesday, I am not surprised to hear they are in the brown stuff. If I was a council I'd be withdrawing right now - well I'd never have the money in there in the first place but thats another story.
    Didn't Milan Mandaric pay off that debt when he took over the Owls?
    Doubt he'd have paid the full amount - given he was the only show in town - paper reports seem to back this up:

    He 'struck a deal' over the £26 million debt. (Daily Telegraph) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2140465/Sheffield-Wednesday-having-hoot-MICHAEL-WALKER.html

    Mr Mandaric’s investment vehicle, UK Football Investments, will also pay £9m to reach agreement with creditors, allowing the League One club to clear its debts. (Financial Times) http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b4ef55c4-fbf0-11df-b7e9-00144feab49a.html#axzz2UuNHqXAY

    By my maths that left Coop stuck £17 million on that one. If they arranged the rest of their finances on this basis well they are heading for one place. Bust city.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    Re Patrick Mercer

    It appears to be:

    Backbencher being willing to take a few thousand from a fictional lobbying firm is unacceptable

    Prime Minister setting himself up to take a few million from JP Morgan is acceptable

    Hmmm ...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Local authorities have started to cut their exposure to the Co-operative Bank after taking advice from independent advisers amid concerns about the health of the mutual lender.

    More than 100 councils have nearly half a billion pounds on deposit at the group, which was downgraded six notches by Moody’s this month over concerns that the bank’s capital was coming under pressure.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a10beec0-ca13-11e2-af47-00144feab7de.html#axzz2UuJEz5a9

    They have lent out loads to Sheffield Wednesday, I am not surprised to hear they are in the brown stuff. If I was a council I'd be withdrawing right now - well I'd never have the money in there in the first place but thats another story.
    Didn't Milan Mandaric pay off that debt when he took over the Owls?
    He 'struck a deal' over the £26 million debt. (Daily Telegraph)

    Mr Mandaric’s investment vehicle, UK Football Investments, will also pay £9m to reach agreement with creditors, allowing the League One club to clear its debts. (Financial Times)

    By my maths that left Coop stuck £17 million on that one. If they arranged the rest of their finances on this basis well they are heading for one place. Bust city.
    Blimey.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Freggles said:

    " Sheffield is the happiest city in Britain"

    And it's got Nick Clegg as one of it's MP's!

    He will be my MP in three weeks time.


    You should go to his surgery (?) and ask him to write a piece for PB.

    Surely it is time for a "Nick is crap" thread?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    edited May 2013

    Freggles said:

    " Sheffield is the happiest city in Britain"

    And it's got Nick Clegg as one of it's MP's!

    He will be my MP in three weeks time.


    You should go to his surgery (?) and ask him to write a piece for PB.

    Surely it is time for a "Nick is crap" thread?
    Monday should see a Nick is awesome thread from me

    Tuesday should see a Nick is crap thread from me

    Edit: I did do a few Clegg is crap threads last year.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,243
    edited May 2013

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Local authorities have started to cut their exposure to the Co-operative Bank after taking advice from independent advisers amid concerns about the health of the mutual lender.

    More than 100 councils have nearly half a billion pounds on deposit at the group, which was downgraded six notches by Moody’s this month over concerns that the bank’s capital was coming under pressure.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a10beec0-ca13-11e2-af47-00144feab7de.html#axzz2UuJEz5a9

    They have lent out loads to Sheffield Wednesday, I am not surprised to hear they are in the brown stuff. If I was a council I'd be withdrawing right now - well I'd never have the money in there in the first place but thats another story.
    Didn't Milan Mandaric pay off that debt when he took over the Owls?
    He 'struck a deal' over the £26 million debt. (Daily Telegraph)

    Mr Mandaric’s investment vehicle, UK Football Investments, will also pay £9m to reach agreement with creditors, allowing the League One club to clear its debts. (Financial Times)

    By my maths that left Coop stuck £17 million on that one. If they arranged the rest of their finances on this basis well they are heading for one place. Bust city.
    Blimey.
    Of course it was excellent for Sheff Wed that the Coop did lend them the cash and that Mandaric took them over, but from a purely financial perspective I can't work out how the Coop bank didn't lose cash hand over fist on the deal.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Local authorities have started to cut their exposure to the Co-operative Bank after taking advice from independent advisers amid concerns about the health of the mutual lender.

    More than 100 councils have nearly half a billion pounds on deposit at the group, which was downgraded six notches by Moody’s this month over concerns that the bank’s capital was coming under pressure.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a10beec0-ca13-11e2-af47-00144feab7de.html#axzz2UuJEz5a9

    They have lent out loads to Sheffield Wednesday, I am not surprised to hear they are in the brown stuff. If I was a council I'd be withdrawing right now - well I'd never have the money in there in the first place but thats another story.
    Didn't Milan Mandaric pay off that debt when he took over the Owls?
    He 'struck a deal' over the £26 million debt. (Daily Telegraph)

    Mr Mandaric’s investment vehicle, UK Football Investments, will also pay £9m to reach agreement with creditors, allowing the League One club to clear its debts. (Financial Times)

    By my maths that left Coop stuck £17 million on that one. If they arranged the rest of their finances on this basis well they are heading for one place. Bust city.
    Blimey.
    Of course it was excellent for Sheff Wed that the Coop did lend them the cash and that Mandaric took them over, but from a purely financial perspective I can't work out how the Coop bank didn't lose cash hand over fist on the deal.
    Football finances scare me.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited May 2013

    SeanT said:

    SeanT

    Re you Legoland experiences.

    According to this BBC article the Essex tourism industry doesn't appear to be doing so well:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22702004

    I do suspect there's a difference between working and middle class perceptions as to how well Britain is doing.

    Legoland is in Surrey.
    That's partly my point.

    Legoland, Surrey = middle class
    Southend funfare, Essex = working class

    The economic effects of gloablisation, immigration etc are hitting the working class far more than the middle class.
    I am not denying that there is some truth in your analysis, but a bigger influence over the success of tourist ventures is developing the right product to meet and anticipate changing consumer needs.

    Legoland did this successfully. Its location was less important. It did after all replace the Windsor Safari Park which had had its day. Windsor Safari Park in turn replaced Billy Smart's Circus on the same site.

    Keeping ahead of your customers is the main route to success rather than location.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    Sean Fear

    If you'll forgive me for being nosy.

    But if you had never moved to Luton but had stayed in North London do you think your views would have remained more establishment Conservative instead of your, it seems, increasing UKIP tendancy.

    If it is personal experience that shifts the views of Conservative supporters rightwards and more anti-establishment then we could see mainstream/establishment Conservatism increasingly restricted to the most affluent parts of south eastern England in effect stockbroker Conservatism.

  • Gerry_ManderGerry_Mander Posts: 621
    edited May 2013
    AveryLP said:



    I am not denying that there is some truth in your analysis, but a bigger influence over the success of tourist ventures is developing the right product to meet and anticipate changing consumer needs.

    Legoland did this successfully. Its location was less important. It did after all replace the Windsor Safari Park which had had its day. Windsor Safari Park in turn replaced Billy Smart's Circus on the same site.

    Keeping ahead of your customers is the main route to success rather than location.

    If you're looking at entertainments, then surely Stoke-on-Trent must be the epicentre of the boom, as Alton Towers always seems to be full when I'm there.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    AveryLP said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT

    Re you Legoland experiences.

    According to this BBC article the Essex tourism industry doesn't appear to be doing so well:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22702004

    I do suspect there's a difference between working and middle class perceptions as to how well Britain is doing.

    Legoland is in Surrey.
    That's partly my point.

    Legoland, Surrey = middle class
    Southend funfare, Essex = working class

    The economic effects of gloablisation, immigration etc are hitting the working class far more than the middle class.
    I am not denying that there is some truth in your analysis, but a bigger influence over the success of tourist ventures is developing the right product to meet and anticipate changing consumer needs.

    Legoland did this successfully. Its location was less important. It did after all replace the Windsor Safari Park which had had its day. Windsor Safari Park in turn replaced Billy Smart's Circus on the same site.

    Keeping ahead of your customers is the main route to success rather than location.
    You contradict yourself there Avery. It seems that the Windsor site was/is very important for the three businesses you mentioned.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Local authorities have started to cut their exposure to the Co-operative Bank after taking advice from independent advisers amid concerns about the health of the mutual lender.

    More than 100 councils have nearly half a billion pounds on deposit at the group, which was downgraded six notches by Moody’s this month over concerns that the bank’s capital was coming under pressure.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a10beec0-ca13-11e2-af47-00144feab7de.html#axzz2UuJEz5a9

    They have lent out loads to Sheffield Wednesday, I am not surprised to hear they are in the brown stuff. If I was a council I'd be withdrawing right now - well I'd never have the money in there in the first place but thats another story.
    Didn't Milan Mandaric pay off that debt when he took over the Owls?
    He 'struck a deal' over the £26 million debt. (Daily Telegraph)

    Mr Mandaric’s investment vehicle, UK Football Investments, will also pay £9m to reach agreement with creditors, allowing the League One club to clear its debts. (Financial Times)

    By my maths that left Coop stuck £17 million on that one. If they arranged the rest of their finances on this basis well they are heading for one place. Bust city.
    Blimey.
    Of course it was excellent for Sheff Wed that the Coop did lend them the cash and that Mandaric took them over, but from a purely financial perspective I can't work out how the Coop bank didn't lose cash hand over fist on the deal.
    Football finances scare me.
    Mandaric only looks after himself. He paints himself as the saviour of the club, then refinances it and skips town before the bills come home to roost with the mugs that he sold to. It happened in Portsmouth and Leicester city. why expect it to be better in Sheffield?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT

    Re you Legoland experiences.

    According to this BBC article the Essex tourism industry doesn't appear to be doing so well:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22702004

    I do suspect there's a difference between working and middle class perceptions as to how well Britain is doing.

    Legoland is in Surrey.
    Really?

    http://www.legoland.co.uk/Plan/Directions/

    LEGOLAND Windsor is located at
    Winkfield Road,
    Windsor,
    Berkshire,-
    SL4 4AY
    Indeed - my bad!

    Though, while we are talking about the greater south east tourist economy, a few weeks ago I was at Southend Funfair in Essex (quoted in another_richard's BBC report), which is much more working class than Legoland.

    Southend was also rammed.

    I don't think there is any doubt that the entire London/SE economy long ago left recession, and is now growing at a fair lick - in fact, it is almost boisterous.

    The question, therefore, is not whether there is a dreadful working class/middle class division in southern England (there isn't, much), it is the extent to which London and its hinterland are uncoupling, economically, from the rest of the UK.
    But do you go to tourist areas outside the south-east for comprison ?

    As I've said before there's been no reduction in wealth CONSUMPTION - there's £120bn of government borrowing to support it.

    It was wealth PRODUCTION which suffered the recession.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited May 2013
    @Avery

    FPT.

    'Nigel Evans MP accused of sexual assault by fourth alleged victim' "Nigel Evans should be promoted not vilified."

    I agree that having the deputy speaker fondle this 22 year old intern's bottom while being shown round parliament by his parents should not be a matter for the police. It's character building.
    No wonder the Tories are now only recruiting from Eton
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,763
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT

    Re you Legoland experiences.

    According to this BBC article the Essex tourism industry doesn't appear to be doing so well:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22702004

    I do suspect there's a difference between working and middle class perceptions as to how well Britain is doing.

    Legoland is in Surrey.
    Really?

    http://www.legoland.co.uk/Plan/Directions/

    LEGOLAND Windsor is located at
    Winkfield Road,
    Windsor,
    Berkshire,-
    SL4 4AY
    Indeed - my bad!

    Though, while we are talking about the greater south east tourist economy, a few weeks ago I was at Southend Funfair in Essex (quoted in another_richard's BBC report), which is much more working class than Legoland.

    Southend was also rammed.

    I don't think there is any doubt that the entire London/SE economy long ago left recession, and is now growing at a fair lick - in fact, it is almost boisterous.

    The question, therefore, is not whether there is a dreadful working class/middle class division in southern England (there isn't, much), it is the extent to which London and its hinterland are uncoupling, economically, from the rest of the UK.
    Is London really booming - i.e. endogenously generating plenty of new, sustainable activity - or is it still surfing a wave of incoming money fleeing worrisome places?
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    AveryLP said:



    I am not denying that there is some truth in your analysis, but a bigger influence over the success of tourist ventures is developing the right product to meet and anticipate changing consumer needs.

    Legoland did this successfully. Its location was less important. It did after all replace the Windsor Safari Park which had had its day. Windsor Safari Park in turn replaced Billy Smart's Circus on the same site.

    Keeping ahead of your customers is the main route to success rather than location.

    If you're looking at entertainments, then surely Stoke-on-Trent must be the epicentre of the boom, as Alton Towers always seems to be full when I'm there.
    I remember it when it was a hall of mirrors and a couple of donkeys toing/froing along a strip of sand in the middle of a lawn.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    MikeK said:

    AveryLP said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT

    Re you Legoland experiences.

    According to this BBC article the Essex tourism industry doesn't appear to be doing so well:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22702004

    I do suspect there's a difference between working and middle class perceptions as to how well Britain is doing.

    Legoland is in Surrey.
    That's partly my point.

    Legoland, Surrey = middle class
    Southend funfare, Essex = working class

    The economic effects of gloablisation, immigration etc are hitting the working class far more than the middle class.
    I am not denying that there is some truth in your analysis, but a bigger influence over the success of tourist ventures is developing the right product to meet and anticipate changing consumer needs.

    Legoland did this successfully. Its location was less important. It did after all replace the Windsor Safari Park which had had its day. Windsor Safari Park in turn replaced Billy Smart's Circus on the same site.

    Keeping ahead of your customers is the main route to success rather than location.
    You contradict yourself there Avery. It seems that the Windsor site was/is very important for the three businesses you mentioned.
    Not really. Windsor Safari Park was founded in 1969 and lasted until 1992 when it went into receivership after many revamps and changes of ownership. As it was both the home and headquarters of Billy Smart's Circus from 1969 to the mid-late 1970s, the site was already set up (access roads, planning consent etc) for a tourist site. But there were long periods of inactivity between closure and reopening of the new ventures.

    It is not that easy to get to so isn't perfectly located. A combined trip including Windsor Castle was the main proposition to foreign tourists staying in London but there is not a large local tourist base in the immediate location. The Thames Valley is of course a well populated and prosperous area but people don't tend to make regular trips to such attractions.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    MikeK said:

    Parliamentary rules explicitly ban MPs from undertaking “paid advocacy” on behalf of paying clients. Mr Mercer may also now be investigated by the police over potential offences of bribery and misconduct in a public office.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10092607/Exposed-deal-that-sank-cash-for-questions-MP-Mercer.html

    It was a set-up, a trap, organised directly by the BBC and the Telegraph and I wonder if Cammo had a finger in this, working from proxies of course. There was little love lost between the two. Nevertheless as an MP, Mercer should have known the rules, or if he was savvy should have suspected a rat. The small amounts offered and accepted show that Mercer wasn't in it for greed, but supposedly to help a former commonwealth country come in from the cold. He was a colonel in the Army but sadly, lacked street smarts.

    Truly pathetic to think that Cameron had a finger in this.

  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited May 2013
    It's very interesting that those on these distinguished pages who have been laying into Matthew Parris' interesting and quite nuanced article on UKIP don't actually seem to have read it, or, if they have, they've latched on to the one word 'extremist', reacted emotionally to it, and thus have been completely blinded to what he is actually saying.

    I'm not sure he is quite right in his main arguments, but that is a slightly different point; if we're going to discuss whether he's right we need to start by not misrepresenting what he says. For a start, he does NOT dismiss the concerns which seem to motivate UKIP supporters: None of the problems [UKIP] identifies (with immigration, with EU bureaucracy, with the cost of the EU, with the ambitions of some Europeanists, with political correctness, with health-and-safety, with human rights legislation etc) are anything less than real.

    Taking the discussion on to criticising what he actually says, I'd start with his point about UKIP supporters distorting and simplifying the world, 'perceiving a range of different ills and difficulties as all proceeding from two sources'. He's right in the sense that this is often true of UKIP supporters, but where I think his argument collapses is that this fault is by no means unique to UKIP supporters. Labour supporters distort and simplify the world by blaming everything on Tories and bankers. Does that make them 'extremists'? (Read the comments in the Guardian and New Statesmen and you'll find they are seriously bonkers, at least as bonkers as the über-UKIPers who infest the Telegraph or ConHome). I dare say you could even find some Conservative supporters who simplify and distort. It's in the nature of party politics to do so, often starting with a kernel of truth which then gets elevated into a religion. I'm not convinced that this charge sticks particularly more to UKIP than to other parties, or at least to other parties who are miles away from power and who can therefore afford to simplify and distort.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,237

    Freggles said:

    " Sheffield is the happiest city in Britain"

    And it's got Nick Clegg as one of it's MP's!

    He will be my MP in three weeks time.


    You should go to his surgery (?) and ask him to write a piece for PB.

    Surely it is time for a "Nick is crap" thread?
    Monday should see a Nick is awesome thread from me

    Tuesday should see a Nick is crap thread from me

    Edit: I did do a few Clegg is crap threads last year.
    The problem with 'Nick is crap' threads is that, while a year or so ago many were of the opinion that Ed was crap (and many still feel so), that was only important because he was and is still significant, whereas poor Nick has been labouring under the yoke of being considered a joke for several years, so what matter if he is crap or not? I know there have been rumblings that he is staging something of a political recovery for himself, but I don't really buy it yet, for all I think he was hard done by early on in this parliament.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    edited May 2013
    kle4 said:

    Freggles said:

    " Sheffield is the happiest city in Britain"

    And it's got Nick Clegg as one of it's MP's!

    He will be my MP in three weeks time.


    You should go to his surgery (?) and ask him to write a piece for PB.

    Surely it is time for a "Nick is crap" thread?
    Monday should see a Nick is awesome thread from me

    Tuesday should see a Nick is crap thread from me

    Edit: I did do a few Clegg is crap threads last year.
    The problem with 'Nick is crap' threads is that, while a year or so ago many were of the opinion that Ed was crap (and many still feel so), that was only important because he was and is still significant, whereas poor Nick has been labouring under the yoke of being considered a joke for several years, so what matter if he is crap or not? I know there have been rumblings that he is staging something of a political recovery for himself, but I don't really buy it yet, for all I think he was hard done by early on in this parliament.

    The gist of the Monday piece is that, given how poorly the Lib Dems are polling, in single digits behind UKIP, the lack of leadership speculation over Clegg, is that testament to

    i) They're over the worst of it

    and/or

    ii) The Lib Dems realise Clegg is the best man to lead at the General Election.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Roger said:

    @Avery

    FPT.

    'Nigel Evans MP accused of sexual assault by fourth alleged victim' "Nigel Evans should be promoted not vilified."

    I agree that having the deputy speaker fondle this 22 year old intern's bottom while being shown round parliament by his parents should not be a matter for the police. It's character building.
    No wonder the Tories are now only recruiting from Eton

    All this retrospective investigation of exuberant sexual behaviour should be stopped in its tracks, Roger.

    Just imagine what would happen if the inquisition started to turn its attention to mid-late twentieth century public schools!

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,237
    edited May 2013

    Mr. Dave, I've been replaying Dragon Age Origins today. I wonder if the Establishment = Ferelden and UKIP = the Blight?

    Many would hope so I would warrant, a chaotic mess of evil, problematic when dealt with but still ultimately easy to handle once the major threat is defeated by civilized forces uniting together to face it down.

    Having been replaying Dragon Age 2 myself the last couple of days (talking about it several times made me need to go through it again!), I imagine UKIPers would see their position as closer to that of Establisment = Templars and UKIP = apostate mages. Mostly good people fighting against a well intentioned by thoroughly broken system designed by the Templars/Establishment, which disenfranchises a significant section of the population out of misplaced fear, even as there is some basis for being wary of them given their chaotic natures .

    I wonder who the Qunari would be in this situation. Uncompromising zealots imposing strictly defined order on the world, but fair, honest and providing certainty of purpose and ideals of sweeping away the shallow corruption and decadence of modern society, in service to a higher cause of justice and society. There is no escape from duty to the Qun.

  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413

    Sources said that voters in the focus groups had an overwhelmingly more positive view of Mr Miliband when shown the longer films.,

    So what? If you pick damaging soundbites from any politician out of context, you may well get a negative result which would be ameliorated if you heard the whole speech. You can't draw any conclusion without doing the same focus-group study on a range of different politicians.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,850
    Maybe the Qunari are those who think we should be run by Brussels, Mr. kle4?

    I think the retconning of their appearance for DA2 is a rare example of something being made better. I hope we end up with a Qunari/Tal-Vashoth companion in Inquisition.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,412
    Another Richard, funnily enough, the bit of Luton I live in is quieter and more peaceful than the bit of North London I left. A more formative experience was witnessing family members plagued by a really vicious gang culture emanating from Graham Park.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,237
    There are fairly good reasons not to allow UKIP if judging the matter on past Westminster election performance as was the case last time, but politically if they win the Euros and are still riding high in the polls, it would prove hard to make the case to the public. The others should stop being cowards and take the chance maybe, give Farage enough rope to hang himself, unless they are so unsure of their own ability to shoot down his rhetoric.

    Miliband is indeed more impressive outside of 30 second soundbites. A difficulty for him that is all most people will ever see.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,237

    kle4 said:

    Freggles said:

    " Sheffield is the happiest city in Britain"

    And it's got Nick Clegg as one of it's MP's!

    He will be my MP in three weeks time.


    You should go to his surgery (?) and ask him to write a piece for PB.

    Surely it is time for a "Nick is crap" thread?
    Monday should see a Nick is awesome thread from me

    Tuesday should see a Nick is crap thread from me

    Edit: I did do a few Clegg is crap threads last year.
    The problem with 'Nick is crap' threads is that, while a year or so ago many were of the opinion that Ed was crap (and many still feel so), that was only important because he was and is still significant, whereas poor Nick has been labouring under the yoke of being considered a joke for several years, so what matter if he is crap or not? I know there have been rumblings that he is staging something of a political recovery for himself, but I don't really buy it yet, for all I think he was hard done by early on in this parliament.

    The gist of the Monday piece is that, given how poorly the Lib Dems are polling, in single digits behind UKIP, the lack of leadership speculation over Clegg, is that testament to

    i) They're over the worst of it

    and/or

    ii) The Lib Dems realise Clegg is the best man to lead at the General Election.
    iii) (or explanatory note to ii) A change of leadership beforehand would only taint the new leader with the same brush and achieve little significant gain in the LD standing, therefore best for Clegg to do a passable job (he is not without quality) defending, then a new leader gets a clean slate with hopefully not too many losses?

    That Gove's claims were the most we'd seen in some while about Clegg's position was pretty telling though, he does seem pretty secure - I guess i) is right as they seem quite steady in the polls, although if a recovery cannot be had in Scotland that stability elsewhere is not as helpful as it could be.

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    If you go into Downing Street on Google Street View, you can see Larry, the cat to the left on the door at Number 10.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT

    Re you Legoland experiences.

    According to this BBC article the Essex tourism industry doesn't appear to be doing so well:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22702004

    I do suspect there's a difference between working and middle class perceptions as to how well Britain is doing.

    Legoland is in Surrey.
    Really?

    http://www.legoland.co.uk/Plan/Directions/

    LEGOLAND Windsor is located at
    Winkfield Road,
    Windsor,
    Berkshire,-
    SL4 4AY
    Indeed - my bad!

    Though, while we are talking about the greater south east tourist economy, a few weeks ago I was at Southend Funfair in Essex (quoted in another_richard's BBC report), which is much more working class than Legoland.

    Southend was also rammed.

    I don't think there is any doubt that the entire London/SE economy long ago left recession, and is now growing at a fair lick - in fact, it is almost boisterous.

    The question, therefore, is not whether there is a dreadful working class/middle class division in southern England (there isn't, much), it is the extent to which London and its hinterland are uncoupling, economically, from the rest of the UK.
    But do you go to tourist areas outside the south-east for comprison ?

    As I've said before there's been no reduction in wealth CONSUMPTION - there's £120bn of government borrowing to support it.

    It was wealth PRODUCTION which suffered the recession.

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT

    Re you Legoland experiences.

    According to this BBC article the Essex tourism industry doesn't appear to be doing so well:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22702004

    I do suspect there's a difference between working and middle class perceptions as to how well Britain is doing.

    Legoland is in Surrey.
    Really?

    http://www.legoland.co.uk/Plan/Directions/

    LEGOLAND Windsor is located at
    Winkfield Road,
    Windsor,
    Berkshire,-
    SL4 4AY
    Indeed - my bad!

    Though, while we are talking about the greater south east tourist economy, a few weeks ago I was at Southend Funfair in Essex (quoted in another_richard's BBC report), which is much more working class than Legoland.

    Southend was also rammed.

    I don't think there is any doubt that the entire London/SE economy long ago left recession, and is now growing at a fair lick - in fact, it is almost boisterous.

    The question, therefore, is not whether there is a dreadful working class/middle class division in southern England (there isn't, much), it is the extent to which London and its hinterland are uncoupling, economically, from the rest of the UK.
    But do you go to tourist areas outside the south-east for comprison ?

    As I've said before there's been no reduction in wealth CONSUMPTION - there's £120bn of government borrowing to support it.

    It was wealth PRODUCTION which suffered the recession.
    Inner London produces more wealth, per head, than anywhere else in Europe (maybe the world?)

    "OUT OF all the regions across the 27 members of the EU, inner London has the highest productivity per capita, figures showed yesterday."

    http://www.cityam.com/article/inner-london-eu-s-most-productive-economic-region

    DESPITE the collapse in financial services, London remains a phenomenal economic machine, generating turnover and taxes like almost nowhere else on the planet.

    If only the rest of the country was half as dynamic. But it isn't. That is what we need to fix. Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow and Birmingham will never equal London, but there's no obvious reason why they couldn't be as prosperous and productive as, say, Turin or Stockholm.
    Undoubtably there is a lot of money being made still in inner London, but how were these figures based? If a banker lives in Godalming, but works in the square mile, to which geographical area should the money be assigned? Ditto a Cornish thriller writer who writes in Thailand but publishes the literary product in London. Even a hundred miles north in Leicestershire there are workers who commute to the Smoke.

    To have a high GDP per capita you need a large amount of earnings divided by a small number of people, so defining who is in each matters. The figures are even more distorted if earnings of non-Londoners are added but the people are not.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    10 Downing Street seems to think, it will be a plus for EdM doing extended question and answer questions during a leaders' debate.
    Are they frit?

    Sources said that voters in the focus groups had an overwhelmingly more positive view of Mr Miliband when shown the longer films.,

    So what? If you pick damaging soundbites from any politician out of context, you may well get a negative result which would be ameliorated if you heard the whole speech. You can't draw any conclusion without doing the same focus-group study on a range of different politicians.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,237
    Maybe the Qunari are those who think we should be run by Brussels, Mr. kle4?

    Heh, that would explain their rigidity of thinking and absolute certainty regardless of what the world demonstrates I suppose.

    I think the retconning of their appearance for DA2 is a rare example of something being made better. I hope we end up with a Qunari/Tal-Vashoth companion in Inquisition.

    Fingers crossed. I think the Qunari are on the most interesting 'new' fantasy race idea I've seen executed in quite some while.

    I know DA2 was a bit rushed, and I was uncertain on the changing protagonists, but despite the very different styles, I quite like the idea now of the DA series being a bit like the Elder Scrolls, each game moving on to a different part of its established world, with a new character and story as part of the world and a single epic saga (in fairness, I have only played Skyrim though).
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited May 2013

    10 Downing Street seems to think, it will be a plus for EdM doing extended question and answer questions during a leaders' debate.
    Are they frit?

    I don't know if they're frit, but I suspect they are wrong.

    The best possible Tory party-political broadcast would be a long Ed Miliband speech which voters were compelled to watch.

    What they most need to do is to prevent him seeming 'new'.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    @Avery

    "All this retrospective investigation of exuberant sexual behaviour should be stopped in its tracks, Roger"

    As someone who went to school with James Hewitt it would mean shutting the farmyard gate after the horse has bolted. But I agree. I haven't any time for these witch hunts and if this 22 year old didn't want the attentions of the deputy speaker I can think of more immediate remedies than calling the police!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,237
    edited May 2013
    Quick sidebar - is the idea that UKIP draws mainly from the right really a misconception (they certainly seem to delibately appeal to the Tory right), or is it more that they have essentially maxed out the numbers they would get from the right, and given some of their core messages are cross-political, that is why only now Labour are starting to panic, as UKIP have secured/lured as many on the right as they can, and now time for the Labour centre?

    That would feel like it denigrates UKIP more than they deserve, but as much as I feel the left-right spectrum is pretty much bunkum anyway - mere labels, with ideology as mere set dressing, to justify tribalistic behaviours - it seems very strange that, apparently, UKIP are the only ones to truly be able to cut across the spectrum, gaining not from just the left of the Tories and right of Labour as with traditional 'floaters' moving back and forth, but instead drawing from hard right and centre and left.

    Even though I don't support UKIP, the idea that they have managed to shatter that mould seems too good to be true.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    AveryLP said:

    Roger said:

    @Avery

    FPT.

    'Nigel Evans MP accused of sexual assault by fourth alleged victim' "Nigel Evans should be promoted not vilified."

    I agree that having the deputy speaker fondle this 22 year old intern's bottom while being shown round parliament by his parents should not be a matter for the police. It's character building.
    No wonder the Tories are now only recruiting from Eton

    All this retrospective investigation of exuberant sexual behaviour should be stopped in its tracks, Roger.

    Just imagine what would happen if the inquisition started to turn its attention to mid-late twentieth century public schools!

    I think we need a bit more detail of what happened here. If a bit of unwanted physical sexual attention that was rebuffed is a crime then not many would pass a CRB check! I was on the receiving end of similar contact on a number of occasions, by both sexes.

    If it was repeated when the contact was clearly not wanted it starts to be more serious and sordid.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,850
    I've only played Oblivion and Skyrim, but for lore I think Dragon Age is better.

    DA2 was rushed, but DA3 definitely isn't, and from what I've heard it sounds promising. The Qunari are nice because they're more original than the staples of elves and dwarves. Plus, they're interesting because of their religious fundamentalism.

    Incidentally, DA3 is apparently pencilled in for the XBox One, so presumably it'll be on the PS4 as well. No word on the 360/PS3 yet, but I'd be slightly surprised (and considerably annoyed) if it weren't released for the PS3 as well.

    Anyway, I'm off for the night.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Sky News Paper Review suggesting that rumours are circulating in the Westminster Village that the BBC and DT have stung a Labour MP on lobbying and that the Mercer story is not the end of the matter.

    If so, who?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT

    Re you Legoland experiences.

    According to this BBC article the Essex tourism industry doesn't appear to be doing so well:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22702004

    I do suspect there's a difference between working and middle class perceptions as to how well Britain is doing.

    Legoland is in Surrey.
    Really?

    http://www.legoland.co.uk/Plan/Directions/

    LEGOLAND Windsor is located at
    Winkfield Road,
    Windsor,
    Berkshire,-
    SL4 4AY
    Indeed - my bad!

    Though, while we are talking about the greater south east tourist economy, a few weeks ago I was at Southend Funfair in Essex (quoted in another_richard's BBC report), which is much more working class than Legoland.

    Southend was also rammed.

    I don't think there is any doubt that the entire London/SE economy long ago left recession, and is now growing at a fair lick - in fact, it is almost boisterous.

    The question, therefore, is not whether there is a dreadful working class/middle class division in southern England (there isn't, much), it is the extent to which London and its hinterland are uncoupling, economically, from the rest of the UK.
    But do you go to tourist areas outside the south-east for comprison ?

    As I've said before there's been no reduction in wealth CONSUMPTION - there's £120bn of government borrowing to support it.

    It was wealth PRODUCTION which suffered the recession.

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT

    Re you Legoland experiences.

    According to this BBC article the Essex tourism industry doesn't appear to be doing so well:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22702004

    I do suspect there's a difference between working and middle class perceptions as to how well Britain is doing.

    Legoland is in Surrey.
    Really?

    http://www.legoland.co.uk/Plan/Directions/

    LEGOLAND Windsor is located at
    Winkfield Road,
    Windsor,
    Berkshire,-
    SL4 4AY
    Indeed - my bad!

    Though, while we are talking about the greater south east tourist economy, a few weeks ago I was at Southend Funfair in Essex (quoted in another_richard's BBC report), which is much more working class than Legoland.

    Southend was also rammed.

    I don't think there is any doubt that the entire London/SE economy long ago left recession, and is now growing at a fair lick - in fact, it is almost boisterous.

    The question, therefore, is not whether there is a dreadful working class/middle class division in southern England (there isn't, much), it is the extent to which London and its hinterland are uncoupling, economically, from the rest of the UK.
    But do you go to tourist areas outside the south-east for comprison ?

    As I've said before there's been no reduction in wealth CONSUMPTION - there's £120bn of government borrowing to support it.

    It was wealth PRODUCTION which suffered the recession.
    Inner London produces more wealth, per head, than anywhere else in Europe (maybe the world?)

    "OUT OF all the regions across the 27 members of the EU, inner London has the highest productivity per capita, figures showed yesterday."

    http://www.cityam.com/article/inner-london-eu-s-most-productive-economic-region

    DESPITE the collapse in financial services, London remains a phenomenal economic machine, generating turnover and taxes like almost nowhere else on the planet.

    If only the rest of the country was half as dynamic. But it isn't. That is what we need to fix. Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow and Birmingham will never equal London, but there's no obvious reason why they couldn't be as prosperous and productive as, say, Turin or Stockholm.
    But take away financial services and much of what remains in inner London is wealth consuming economic activities.

    And as I keep saying there's been no reduction in that.

    So a centre for retail and leisure is going to do well when the government is borrowing £120bn per year and spending this on consumption.

    Certainly inner London is a major tourist centre but it always has been. Is there any evidence that tourism has dramatically increased recently ?

    So what does that leave - central government, no reduction there - rich foreigners looking for somewhere safe to put themselves and their money, how long will that continue ?

    BTW I believe the most productive place per capita in Britain is Derby.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,237
    edited May 2013

    10 Downing Street seems to think, it will be a plus for EdM doing extended question and answer questions during a leaders' debate.
    Are they frit?

    I don't know if they're frit, but I suspect they are wrong.

    The best possible Tory party-political broadcast would be a long Ed Miliband speech which voters were compelled to watch.

    What they most need to do is to prevent him seeming 'new'.
    Won't be easy. He seems to have pretty mych succeeded in being seen anew (or for the first time for many) as leader as though he had no connection to the last Labour government's inner circle at all, remarkably.

    Anyway, sadly must be off. Night all.
  • I don't think there is anything surprising in Parris's rather absurd and inane stereotyping. It is typical of his ilk and one of the main reasons why UKIP are having such success. Long may the old fool carry on.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    four by-elections ftw
  • Gerry_ManderGerry_Mander Posts: 621


    BTW I believe the most productive place per capita in Britain is Derby.

    Why Derby? Please enlighten us. Is it because it is close by Alton Towers, as I mentioned earlier?
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    kle4 said:

    Quick sidebar - is the idea that UKIP draws mainly from the right really a misconception (they certainly seem to delibately appear to the Tory right), or is it more that they have essentially maxed out the numbers they would get from the right, and given some of their core messages are cross-political, that is why only now Labour are starting to panic, as UKIP have secured/lured as many on the right as they can, and now time for the Labour centre?

    That would feel like it denigrates UKIP more than they deserve, but as much as I feel the left-right spectrum is pretty much bunkum anyway - mere labels, with ideology as mere set dressing, to justify tribalistic behaviours - it seems very strange that, apparently, UKIP are the only ones to truly be able to cut across the spectrum, gaining not from just the left of the Tories and right of Labour as with traditional 'floaters' moving back and forth, but instead drawing from hard right and centre and left.

    Even though I don't support UKIP, the idea that they have managed to shatter that mould seems too good to be true.

    Globalist left
    Conservative left
    Conservative right
    Globalist right
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400


    BTW I believe the most productive place per capita in Britain is Derby.

    Why Derby? Please enlighten us. Is it because it is close by Alton Towers, as I mentioned earlier?

    Rolls-Royce
This discussion has been closed.