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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Survation/UNITE poll has CON holding onto Stockton S wh

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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,030

    Two Conservative MPs are considering jumping ship to Nigel Farage’s party if it wins the Rochester and Strood byelection, Ukip candidate Mark Reckless said on Wednesday.

    Reckless, the former Tory MP whose defection triggered the contest, made the claim on the eve of a vote likely to return him as Ukip’s second MP. Further defections would be likely to prompt a crisis in Downing Street about the haemorrhaging of the Tory vote six months before the general election, and potentially a move on David Cameron’s leadership.

    Reckless, the clear favourite to win, said: “During the campaign I have spoken with two Conservative MPs about the possibility of their moving over and I think they will want to see what the result is before making any decisions. One of them I had discussions with by telephone and the other I met in an undisclosed location, not in the constituency. It is a very individual decision. And I feed back to Nigel [Farage] on those conversations.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/19/two-tory-mps-defect-ukip-wins-rochester-reckless

    I hear their codenames are "pig" and "dog". ;)
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,588
    felix said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    For the benefit of any under-informed southerners, Stockton South is actually very nice, and contains the small towns of Yarm (typical pleasant North Yorkshire market town, albeith with improbably rowdy weekend nightlife), Eaglescliffe, Egglescliffe (small country towns), Ingleby Barwick (massive post 1980 private housing development: nice enough if you like that sort of thing I suppose) and Thornaby. The latter is the only area which could reasonably be called working class, though far from uniformly. This is generally a pretty comfortable neck of the woods. If this constituency was anywhere south of the Trent it would be returning cofortable conservative majorities most of the time. The fact that it is even marginal show how strong Labour are in the North East.
    All that said, a pretty poor survey for Labour. If they can't even change enough minds in Stockton South to nudge it over the line they'll be falling short elsewhere too. This isn't the working class north which popular wisdom would have us believe finds Ed's rather cerebral blend of socialism so unpalatable.

    Excuse my ignorance, but how does it relate to Stockton, held by 'Super Mac' in 1940s?
    Harold Macmillan's Stockton was more akin to the modern Stockton North, and a much less likely Conservative seat. Stockton-on-Tees is a pleasant enough town and has some nice suburbs, but is in general not the sort of place you'd expect to incline to the Conservative Party.
    Not sure I'd agree there. Apart from Hexham it's probably the nearest to a strongly M/C area in the North-East. If the polls do creep back much further I would expect Wharton to hold Stockton south.
    Felix, I think we're at cross-purposes. My original point was that Stockton South was very M/C, my second point, in reply to rottenborough, that Stockton North - which is similar to Macmillan's old constituency - is not particularly M/C. Socially it's probably a long way above Middlesbrough, say, but a long way off Stockton South.
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    RobD said:

    Two Conservative MPs are considering jumping ship to Nigel Farage’s party if it wins the Rochester and Strood byelection, Ukip candidate Mark Reckless said on Wednesday.

    Reckless, the former Tory MP whose defection triggered the contest, made the claim on the eve of a vote likely to return him as Ukip’s second MP. Further defections would be likely to prompt a crisis in Downing Street about the haemorrhaging of the Tory vote six months before the general election, and potentially a move on David Cameron’s leadership.

    Reckless, the clear favourite to win, said: “During the campaign I have spoken with two Conservative MPs about the possibility of their moving over and I think they will want to see what the result is before making any decisions. One of them I had discussions with by telephone and the other I met in an undisclosed location, not in the constituency. It is a very individual decision. And I feed back to Nigel [Farage] on those conversations.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/19/two-tory-mps-defect-ukip-wins-rochester-reckless

    I hear their codenames are "pig" and "dog". ;)
    No, their code names are "Hicks" and "Johnson"

    You get a prize if you get the reference.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    If the Tories land within 5 or 6 of UKIP tomorrow, Reckless and Carswell will be wondering what the hell they have done.

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Carswell and Reckless are a similar age, from a roughly similar background, etc, which leads one to believe the two potential defectors will also be from the same general category. In other words, older MPs like Roger Gale and Gordon Henderson are perhaps unlikely to jump ship. Also I can't see any female Tories making the move.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RobD said:

    Two Conservative MPs are considering jumping ship to Nigel Farage’s party if it wins the Rochester and Strood byelection, Ukip candidate Mark Reckless said on Wednesday.

    Reckless, the former Tory MP whose defection triggered the contest, made the claim on the eve of a vote likely to return him as Ukip’s second MP. Further defections would be likely to prompt a crisis in Downing Street about the haemorrhaging of the Tory vote six months before the general election, and potentially a move on David Cameron’s leadership.

    Reckless, the clear favourite to win, said: “During the campaign I have spoken with two Conservative MPs about the possibility of their moving over and I think they will want to see what the result is before making any decisions. One of them I had discussions with by telephone and the other I met in an undisclosed location, not in the constituency. It is a very individual decision. And I feed back to Nigel [Farage] on those conversations.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/19/two-tory-mps-defect-ukip-wins-rochester-reckless

    I hear their codenames are "pig" and "dog". ;)
    So can we assume that at least one of them isn't Jewish?
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    TSE please tell Stig Abell to stop wasting time tweeting pictures of some fat dyed blond non-entity and get on with releasing our daily YouGov!!
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    chestnut said:

    If the Tories land within 5 or 6 of UKIP tomorrow, Reckless and Carswell will be wondering what the hell they have done.

    If
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    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    I don't know what to make of this Stockton poll. Obviously it's really good news for us Tories but 1. it's an individual constituency poll 2. there's no past weighting and 3. it's Lord Ashcroft.

    I think we'd need to see a whole load more polls, but some signs of cautious optimism. To be holding on in November, when most people are miserable, six months out is good.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,137
    chestnut said:

    If the Tories land within 5 or 6 of UKIP tomorrow, Reckless and Carswell will be wondering what the hell they have done.

    Carswell at least seems like he would have a good shot at retaining his seat at the GE, a better chance than Reckless at any rate, and temperamentally he seems like he'd be more suited to be a big fish in a small pond anyway, notwithstanding his comments on the Tories at the moment which are over the top in the fashion of the newly converted, however little sense it makes for him to be so derisive of colleagues he was fine with a year ago.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    weejonnie said:

    chestnut said:

    If the Tories land within 5 or 6 of UKIP tomorrow, Reckless and Carswell will be wondering what the hell they have done.

    If
    Is that 5 or 6% or 5,000 or 6,000? Just seeking clarification.
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    From the Times.....

    Tories will be further unsettled by news that Peter Bone, the ardent Eurosceptic, will tonight (Thursday) join the Ukip team in a debate at the Cambridge Union.
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    Petrol is cheap again, so you'd expect a boost for the government parties.

    By falling in price by about 8p per litre or 6.5% over the past 6 months - hardly a bargain basement fire sale is it?

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    it's Lord Ashcroft.

    Is it not UNITE?
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    BBC news london

    School in East London that was rated outstanding has been put into special measures for failing to safeguard it's pupils leading to danger of radicalisation

    I'm sure you can work out where it is and who is suspected
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    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2014

    Two Conservative MPs are considering jumping ship to Nigel Farage’s party if it wins the Rochester and Strood byelection, Ukip candidate Mark Reckless said on Wednesday.

    Reckless has clearly invented this story to drum up support for tomorrow. It's the equivalent of trolling.

    It suggests he can't hold his nerve, or it's tighter than we thought.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,030

    From the Times.....

    Tories will be further unsettled by news that Peter Bone, the ardent Eurosceptic, will tonight (Thursday) join the Ukip team in a debate at the Cambridge Union.

    The clue is in the name...."bone"....
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,030

    Petrol is cheap again, so you'd expect a boost for the government parties.

    By falling in price by about 8p per litre or 6.5% over the past 6 months - hardly a bargain basement fire sale is it?

    The last fire sale of petrol didn't end well.....


    ...i'll get me coat.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    From the Times.....

    Tories will be further unsettled by news that Peter Bone, the ardent Eurosceptic, will tonight (Thursday) join the Ukip team in a debate at the Cambridge Union.

    What a great name for a porn actor - particularly an ardent one
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories back in front with one point lead: CON 34%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 14%, GRN 6%
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    I don't know what to make of this Stockton poll. Obviously it's really good news for us Tories but 1. it's an individual constituency poll 2. there's no past weighting and 3. it's Lord Ashcroft.

    I think we'd need to see a whole load more polls, but some signs of cautious optimism. To be holding on in November, when most people are miserable, six months out is good.

    It is a poll by Survation......
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,760
    edited November 2014
    We have crossover.


    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories back in front with one point lead: CON 34%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 14%, GRN 6%
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    We have crossover.


    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories back in front with one point lead: CON 34%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 14%, GRN 6%

    Tipping point.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Hurrah, YouGov returns to the blues. The bean counters at YouGov will be getting dizzy at this daily yo-yoing.

    Just spotted Survation now following me on Twitter. Better stop being overly rude about their polling accuracy.
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    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376

    I don't know what to make of this Stockton poll. Obviously it's really good news for us Tories but 1. it's an individual constituency poll 2. there's no past weighting and 3. it's Lord Ashcroft.

    I think we'd need to see a whole load more polls, but some signs of cautious optimism. To be holding on in November, when most people are miserable, six months out is good.

    It is a poll by Survation......
    Ooops. Good job I didn't have a go at him this time then. My points stand.

    However, much more interesting is Reckless's invented story. I've been around the block enough times to smell bullshit 100 miles away upwind, and this one is bs. The question then is 'why?' There are two explanations:

    Either Reckless is a wet who can't hold his nerve
    Or It's squeaky bum time

    It could be a bit of both. What it isn't is a true story.
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    Two Conservative MPs are considering jumping ship to Nigel Farage’s party if it wins the Rochester and Strood byelection, Ukip candidate Mark Reckless said on Wednesday.

    Reckless, the former Tory MP whose defection triggered the contest, made the claim on the eve of a vote likely to return him as Ukip’s second MP. Further defections would be likely to prompt a crisis in Downing Street about the haemorrhaging of the Tory vote six months before the general election, and potentially a move on David Cameron’s leadership.

    Reckless, the clear favourite to win, said: “During the campaign I have spoken with two Conservative MPs about the possibility of their moving over and I think they will want to see what the result is before making any decisions. One of them I had discussions with by telephone and the other I met in an undisclosed location, not in the constituency. It is a very individual decision. And I feed back to Nigel [Farage] on those conversations.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/19/two-tory-mps-defect-ukip-wins-rochester-reckless

    IMHO if it's public, it's not happening.

    If Reckless is saying that then although these Tory MPs are sympathetic, and have considered it in the past, they've now got cold feet and not planning to do so before the election.

    They are just being polite to him.
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    Tonight's YouGov poll might just deter any further Tory would-be UKIP defectors.
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    We have crossover.


    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories back in front with one point lead: CON 34%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 14%, GRN 6%

    What? Again?

    If sven jnr does join the kipperoonies then I think I'll survive the sadness and melancholy
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,571
    The Tories in the lead with the Lib Dems on 7 and UKIP on 14. Weird. Not particularly unusual of late but just weird. The lefty vote is more consolidated than it has been for a generation and the righty vote more split and the Tories are in the lead. Weird.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    We have crossover.


    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories back in front with one point lead: CON 34%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 14%, GRN 6%

    How long for though,a UKIP by election win and more tory defections.
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    I'm disappointed in you thickos for not knowing the codename Johnson and Hicks is all about.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,295
    AndyJS said:

    Carswell and Reckless are a similar age, from a roughly similar background, etc, which leads one to believe the two potential defectors will also be from the same general category. In other words, older MPs like Roger Gale and Gordon Henderson are perhaps unlikely to jump ship. Also I can't see any female Tories making the move.

    What about the lovely lady from Luton?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2014
    chestnut said:

    If the Tories land within 5 or 6 of UKIP tomorrow, Reckless and Carswell will be wondering what the hell they have done.

    Is that an attempt at spin? Any type of loss would be a catastrophe for the Tories.
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    RobD said:

    From the Times.....

    Tories will be further unsettled by news that Peter Bone, the ardent Eurosceptic, will tonight (Thursday) join the Ukip team in a debate at the Cambridge Union.

    The clue is in the name...."bone"....
    You don't get much "bone" in a university debating union.

    Well, I didn't at Bristol anyway.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    I see the 34% Tory score is its highest since 23rd October.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    I'm disappointed in you thickos for not knowing the codename Johnson and Hicks is all about.

    http://www.johnsonhicks.com/

    Now who's a thicko :-)
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    RobD said:

    From the Times.....

    Tories will be further unsettled by news that Peter Bone, the ardent Eurosceptic, will tonight (Thursday) join the Ukip team in a debate at the Cambridge Union.

    The clue is in the name...."bone"....
    You don't get much "bone" in a university debating union.

    Well, I didn't at Bristol anyway.
    You needed some of my chat up lines.
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    Tim_B said:

    I'm disappointed in you thickos for not knowing the codename Johnson and Hicks is all about.

    http://www.johnsonhicks.com/

    Now who's a thicko :-)
    Not the correct answer.
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    AndyJS said:

    chestnut said:

    If the Tories land within 5 or 6 of UKIP tomorrow, Reckless and Carswell will be wondering what the hell they have done.

    Is that an attempt at spin? Any type of loss would be a catastrophe for the Tories.
    Do you think a 2-3% loss by the Tories would be a catastrophe?

    I don't. A 18-point loss, yes. A loss will lead the news cycle no matter what happens. But this is pretty much priced in now.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    if reckless wins , the joy will be limitless when the treacherous pigdog (cf TSE) loses in May 2015. No point in saying ED is fecked..its there for all to see. the momentum isn't with Ed.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    RobD said:

    From the Times.....

    Tories will be further unsettled by news that Peter Bone, the ardent Eurosceptic, will tonight (Thursday) join the Ukip team in a debate at the Cambridge Union.

    The clue is in the name...."bone"....
    You don't get much "bone" in a university debating union.

    Well, I didn't at Bristol anyway.
    Isn't a debating union the classic definition of oral intercourse?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Kippers scoring 19% with YG in mid October seems not to have been continued.
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    RobD said:

    From the Times.....

    Tories will be further unsettled by news that Peter Bone, the ardent Eurosceptic, will tonight (Thursday) join the Ukip team in a debate at the Cambridge Union.

    The clue is in the name...."bone"....
    You don't get much "bone" in a university debating union.

    Well, I didn't at Bristol anyway.
    You needed some of my chat up lines.
    My problem was I tried to debate with them on a 1:1 afterwards too. I'd have had more success with Dapper Laughs' technique.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Jacqui Smith and Iain Dale doing papers on Sky News. Poor woman is not wearing well.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,137
    AndyJS said:

    chestnut said:

    If the Tories land within 5 or 6 of UKIP tomorrow, Reckless and Carswell will be wondering what the hell they have done.

    Is that an attempt at spin? Any type of loss would be a catastrophe for the Tories.
    It is spin, but some catastrophes are worse than others. Some disasters are survivable, some aren't. A loss in the range of 5-6 would probably give some actual hope until the next disaster hits, rather than just false bravado in the event of a larger loss.
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    RobD said:

    From the Times.....

    Tories will be further unsettled by news that Peter Bone, the ardent Eurosceptic, will tonight (Thursday) join the Ukip team in a debate at the Cambridge Union.

    The clue is in the name...."bone"....
    You don't get much "bone" in a university debating union.

    Well, I didn't at Bristol anyway.
    You needed some of my chat up lines.
    My problem was I tried to debate with them on a 1:1 afterwards too. I'd have had more success with Dapper Laughs' technique.
    I make Dapper Laughs look subtle.
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    Tim_B said:

    RobD said:

    From the Times.....

    Tories will be further unsettled by news that Peter Bone, the ardent Eurosceptic, will tonight (Thursday) join the Ukip team in a debate at the Cambridge Union.

    The clue is in the name...."bone"....
    You don't get much "bone" in a university debating union.

    Well, I didn't at Bristol anyway.
    Isn't a debating union the classic definition of oral intercourse?
    It was more timed oral masturbation, to be honest.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Kippers are a spent force.. they have had their day.. Everyone knows what their game is.. Reckless let the cat out of the bag. Dave will be proved right with his description of them..
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    RobD said:

    From the Times.....

    Tories will be further unsettled by news that Peter Bone, the ardent Eurosceptic, will tonight (Thursday) join the Ukip team in a debate at the Cambridge Union.

    The clue is in the name...."bone"....
    You don't get much "bone" in a university debating union.

    Well, I didn't at Bristol anyway.
    You needed some of my chat up lines.
    My problem was I tried to debate with them on a 1:1 afterwards too. I'd have had more success with Dapper Laughs' technique.
    I make Dapper Laughs look subtle.
    Argh, if only I'd known you then.
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    We have crossover.


    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories back in front with one point lead: CON 34%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 14%, GRN 6%

    Must be an outlier :)
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    You can't believe a word Reckless says - he lied and lied and lied.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,760
    edited November 2014
    The magic number for the Tories in Rochester is UKIP winning by 12% or fewer.

    Will prove Lord Ashcroft right and give the comfort that the traitorous Pigdog is going to be out on his arse next May.
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    Kippers are a spent force.. they have had their day.. Everyone knows what their game is.. Reckless let the cat out of the bag. Dave will be proved right with his description of them..

    Welcome Kenneth QC
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    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    AndyJS said:

    chestnut said:

    If the Tories land within 5 or 6 of UKIP tomorrow, Reckless and Carswell will be wondering what the hell they have done.

    Is that an attempt at spin? Any type of loss would be a catastrophe for the Tories.
    Lol

    'Catastrophe' is rather over-spun there Andy. It won't be great, but the whole world and it's dog expects Reckless to win tomorrow. Therefore the scale is of some significance. Over 10% margin will very satisfactory for UKIP. Single figures less so. If the Conservatives are within 5-6% they will be pretty happy and some of the news leads will be 'but it was closer than some suggested,' which is what I'm getting from the Reckless nonsense tonight.

    Nevertheless, the whole lot will soon be forgotten either way. Christmas is coming.
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    We have crossover.


    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories back in front with one point lead: CON 34%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 14%, GRN 6%

    How long for though,a UKIP by election win and more tory defections.
    The previous tory defections and carswell's win put no dent whatever in the tory yougov scores.

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,760
    edited November 2014

    RobD said:

    From the Times.....

    Tories will be further unsettled by news that Peter Bone, the ardent Eurosceptic, will tonight (Thursday) join the Ukip team in a debate at the Cambridge Union.

    The clue is in the name...."bone"....
    You don't get much "bone" in a university debating union.

    Well, I didn't at Bristol anyway.
    You needed some of my chat up lines.
    My problem was I tried to debate with them on a 1:1 afterwards too. I'd have had more success with Dapper Laughs' technique.
    I make Dapper Laughs look subtle.
    Argh, if only I'd known you then.
    Remind me on Friday to show/tell you my fingers chat up line.

    It is one that has to be done in person.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    chestnut said:

    If the Tories land within 5 or 6 of UKIP tomorrow, Reckless and Carswell will be wondering what the hell they have done.

    Hahaha that is brilliant
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    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376

    Jacqui Smith and Iain Dale doing papers on Sky News. Poor woman is not wearing well.

    Jacqui's okay though.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    TGOHF said:

    You can't believe a word Reckless says - he lied and lied and lied.

    You can believe him about repatriation.. its very BNP>
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    RobD said:

    From the Times.....

    Tories will be further unsettled by news that Peter Bone, the ardent Eurosceptic, will tonight (Thursday) join the Ukip team in a debate at the Cambridge Union.

    The clue is in the name...."bone"....
    You don't get much "bone" in a university debating union.

    Well, I didn't at Bristol anyway.
    Isn't a debating union the classic definition of oral intercourse?
    It was more timed oral masturbation, to be honest.
    Remember what IBM stands for - intercourse beats masturbation
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    The magic number for the Tories in Rochester is UKIP winning by 12% or fewer.

    Will prove Lord Ashcroft right and give the comfort that the traitorous Pigdog is going to be out on his arse next May.

    He got 20k+ votes in 2010 - let's see how many gets tomorrow.
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    RobD said:

    From the Times.....

    Tories will be further unsettled by news that Peter Bone, the ardent Eurosceptic, will tonight (Thursday) join the Ukip team in a debate at the Cambridge Union.

    The clue is in the name...."bone"....
    You don't get much "bone" in a university debating union.

    Well, I didn't at Bristol anyway.
    You needed some of my chat up lines.
    My problem was I tried to debate with them on a 1:1 afterwards too. I'd have had more success with Dapper Laughs' technique.
    I make Dapper Laughs look subtle.
    Argh, if only I'd known you then.
    Remind me on Friday to show/tell you my fingers chat up line.

    It is one that has to be done in person.
    I look forward to it.

    Right, must hit the sack. Night 'all.
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Ukip really do have a women problem, here and elsewhere.
    AndyJS said:

    Also I can't see any female Tories making the move.

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2014



    AndyJS said:

    chestnut said:

    If the Tories land within 5 or 6 of UKIP tomorrow, Reckless and Carswell will be wondering what the hell they have done.

    Is that an attempt at spin? Any type of loss would be a catastrophe for the Tories.
    Lol

    'Catastrophe' is rather over-spun there Andy. It won't be great, but the whole world and it's dog expects Reckless to win tomorrow. Therefore the scale is of some significance. Over 10% margin will very satisfactory for UKIP. Single figures less so. If the Conservatives are within 5-6% they will be pretty happy and some of the news leads will be 'but it was closer than some suggested,' which is what I'm getting from the Reckless nonsense tonight.

    Nevertheless, the whole lot will soon be forgotten either way. Christmas is coming.
    What matters is not the expectation, but the result itself IMO.

    If you're going to lose an election you always thought you'd win, suddenly telling everyone you've lost a few days beforehand doesn't work on anyone except the very naive.
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    RobD said:

    From the Times.....

    Tories will be further unsettled by news that Peter Bone, the ardent Eurosceptic, will tonight (Thursday) join the Ukip team in a debate at the Cambridge Union.

    The clue is in the name...."bone"....
    You don't get much "bone" in a university debating union.

    Well, I didn't at Bristol anyway.
    You needed some of my chat up lines.
    TSE is the Julien Blanc of PB!
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    Unprecedented, a Kipper whining and moaning

    @Nigel_Farage

    Of course an entire day of news coverage dedicated to a hustings comment. Barely anything on the heinous European Arrest Warrant vote today.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Why losing Rochester to Ukip is a total catastrophe for the Tories

    Defeat in Kent this week would be a major disaster for the Conservatives - because it would convince UKIP that they could claim victory in similar seats across the country"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11238734/Why-losing-Rochester-is-a-total-catastrophe-for-the-Tories.html
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    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    AndyJS said:



    AndyJS said:

    chestnut said:

    If the Tories land within 5 or 6 of UKIP tomorrow, Reckless and Carswell will be wondering what the hell they have done.

    Is that an attempt at spin? Any type of loss would be a catastrophe for the Tories.
    Lol

    'Catastrophe' is rather over-spun there Andy. It won't be great, but the whole world and it's dog expects Reckless to win tomorrow. Therefore the scale is of some significance. Over 10% margin will very satisfactory for UKIP. Single figures less so. If the Conservatives are within 5-6% they will be pretty happy and some of the news leads will be 'but it was closer than some suggested,' which is what I'm getting from the Reckless nonsense tonight.

    Nevertheless, the whole lot will soon be forgotten either way. Christmas is coming.


    If you're going to lose an election you always thought you'd win,
    I don't know a single Conservative who always thought we'd win.
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    "Why losing Rochester to Ukip is a total catastrophe for the Tories

    Defeat in Kent this week would be a major disaster for the Conservatives - because it would convince UKIP that they could claim victory in similar seats across the country"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11238734/Why-losing-Rochester-is-a-total-catastrophe-for-the-Tories.html

    UKIP need to win a seat where their winning candidate hasn't defected/wasn't already the incumbent.
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Its a desperate diversion, he is trying to stop the other Reckless story gaining any more traction in the news on the eve of the by-election.

    I don't know what to make of this Stockton poll. Obviously it's really good news for us Tories but 1. it's an individual constituency poll 2. there's no past weighting and 3. it's Lord Ashcroft.

    I think we'd need to see a whole load more polls, but some signs of cautious optimism. To be holding on in November, when most people are miserable, six months out is good.

    It is a poll by Survation......
    Ooops. Good job I didn't have a go at him this time then. My points stand.

    However, much more interesting is Reckless's invented story. I've been around the block enough times to smell bullshit 100 miles away upwind, and this one is bs. The question then is 'why?' There are two explanations:

    Either Reckless is a wet who can't hold his nerve
    Or It's squeaky bum time

    It could be a bit of both. What it isn't is a true story.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    UKIP 14 on YG.

    Lowest since?
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    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376

    The magic number for the Tories in Rochester is UKIP winning by 12% or fewer.

    Will prove Lord Ashcroft right and give the comfort that the traitorous Pigdog is going to be out on his arse next May.

    What will prove him right TSE? Under 12% isn't what his poll said.

    I'm interested especially in his Labour share, which he has over-stated in every single poll to date. Remember his latest poll gives:

    44% UKIP
    32% Con
    17% Lab
    3% LibDem
  • Options

    The magic number for the Tories in Rochester is UKIP winning by 12% or fewer.

    Will prove Lord Ashcroft right and give the comfort that the traitorous Pigdog is going to be out on his arse next May.

    According to you the Tories were throwing the kitchen sink at it, and you were so disgusted with Reckless you were out campaigning against him.

    Now the magic number is losing by 12%, what a useless, gutless bunch of wankers you are
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    AndyJS said:

    "Why losing Rochester to Ukip is a total catastrophe for the Tories

    Defeat in Kent this week would be a major disaster for the Conservatives - because it would convince UKIP that they could claim victory in similar seats across the country"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11238734/Why-losing-Rochester-is-a-total-catastrophe-for-the-Tories.html

    UKIP need to win a seat where their winning candidate hasn't defected/wasn't already the incumbent.
    There is a chance to win it back in 6 months - that's sooner than the next Sindy ref...
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,137

    Unprecedented, a Kipper whining and moaning

    @Nigel_Farage

    Of course an entire day of news coverage dedicated to a hustings comment. Barely anything on the heinous European Arrest Warrant vote today.

    I am sure he would be equally outraged were there to be such focus on the comments of an opponent of his on the same day as something more substantive occurring.
  • Options
    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    fitalass said:

    Its a desperate diversion, he is trying to stop the other Reckless story gaining any more traction in the news on the eve of the by-election.

    I don't know what to make of this Stockton poll. Obviously it's really good news for us Tories but 1. it's an individual constituency poll 2. there's no past weighting and 3. it's Lord Ashcroft.

    I think we'd need to see a whole load more polls, but some signs of cautious optimism. To be holding on in November, when most people are miserable, six months out is good.

    It is a poll by Survation......
    Ooops. Good job I didn't have a go at him this time then. My points stand.

    However, much more interesting is Reckless's invented story. I've been around the block enough times to smell bullshit 100 miles away upwind, and this one is bs. The question then is 'why?' There are two explanations:

    Either Reckless is a wet who can't hold his nerve
    Or It's squeaky bum time

    It could be a bit of both. What it isn't is a true story.
    Oooh. What other story? About him?
  • Options
    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    The way the Tories are still gunning for this
    http://order-order.com/2014/11/19/tories-attack-ukip-plans-to-privatise-the-nhs/

    and Reckless's made-up story

    … suggests to me this is a bit closer than UKIP fancied.

    They will still win, but could be in single figures.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    AndyJS said:

    Is that an attempt at spin? Any type of loss would be a catastrophe for the Tories.

    No, it isn't.

    A narrow loss implies a Tory regain in 2015 and a sign that the Clacton effect isn't being replicated.

    Reckless has six months life in him, Carswell is Dougie-No-Mates from May.
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    chestnut said:

    UKIP 14 on YG.

    Lowest since?

    They last hit 14% with YouGov on the 8th of October
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    chestnut said:

    UKIP 14 on YG.

    Lowest since?

    Indeed they have lost a quarter of their support in a month. Single figures by May is likely.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Tonight's YouGov poll might just deter any further Tory would-be UKIP defectors.

    All the MSM and pollsters are on UKIPs case tonight. Well thats only to be expected. And as usual UKIP will only grow stronger.

    The amount of PB Lab/Lib/Con bile directed at UKIP tonight on this thread is an object lesson in hatred, pure and simple.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,137

    AndyJS said:

    "Why losing Rochester to Ukip is a total catastrophe for the Tories

    Defeat in Kent this week would be a major disaster for the Conservatives - because it would convince UKIP that they could claim victory in similar seats across the country"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11238734/Why-losing-Rochester-is-a-total-catastrophe-for-the-Tories.html

    UKIP need to win a seat where their winning candidate hasn't defected/wasn't already the incumbent.
    That would be helpful, although I do have some sympathy with UKIP frustration at being seen as a proper main party - even though it is false frustration as they have no wish to be regarded in the same ranks as the others - as the barrier of things they apparently 'need' seems to get pushed back every time. They need to win the Euros, they need to consistently do well at by-elections and maintain their place in the polls, they need to win a by-election, they need a Labour defection, they need a non-incumbent win.

    Having two MPs going in to next May is well beyond what they probably thought they'd get, and sets them up well to show their vote need not be wasted, and so a better chance of maximising their national vote, but really anything else in their favour they get between now and then is just a bonus.
  • Options

    The magic number for the Tories in Rochester is UKIP winning by 12% or fewer.

    Will prove Lord Ashcroft right and give the comfort that the traitorous Pigdog is going to be out on his arse next May.

    According to you the Tories were throwing the kitchen sink at it, and you were so disgusted with Reckless you were out campaigning against him.

    Now the magic number is losing by 12%, what a useless, gutless bunch of wankers you are
    This is what I love about Kippers, abusive little chaps.

    You lot are so angry, no wonder you are so frustrated, explains why you lot are so dull in bed.
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Farage announcing the by-election result already, and before a vote has been cast....
    Twitter
    Sun Politics @Sun_Politics · 25m 25 minutes ago
    Farage: Cocky Cam has cost Tories by-election victory: http://bit.ly/11iIDPK

    Unprecedented, a Kipper whining and moaning

    @Nigel_Farage

    Of course an entire day of news coverage dedicated to a hustings comment. Barely anything on the heinous European Arrest Warrant vote today.

  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    isam said:

    BBC news london

    School in East London that was rated outstanding has been put into special measures for failing to safeguard it's pupils leading to danger of radicalisation

    I'm sure you can work out where it is and who is suspected

    Why not drop the coded speak and spell out your final solution for anyone who doesnt meet your stabdards.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    MikeK said:

    Tonight's YouGov poll might just deter any further Tory would-be UKIP defectors.

    All the MSM and pollsters are on UKIPs case tonight. Well thats only to be expected. And as usual UKIP will only grow stronger.

    The amount of PB Lab/Lib/Con bile directed at UKIP tonight on this thread is an object lesson in hatred, pure and simple.
    its nothing in comparison to the racist UKIP.. who knows what they will do to perfectly ordinary citizens of the EU who have a right to be here.. It all sounds very 1933.
  • Options
    MikeK said:

    Tonight's YouGov poll might just deter any further Tory would-be UKIP defectors.

    All the MSM and pollsters are on UKIPs case tonight. Well thats only to be expected. And as usual UKIP will only grow stronger.

    The amount of PB Lab/Lib/Con bile directed at UKIP tonight on this thread is an object lesson in hatred, pure and simple.
    Bile eh?

    Only one person has called other people on here wankers, and it ain't a Lab/Lib/Con.

    Poor Kippers, always make idiots of themselves without any help from anyone else.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,137
    edited November 2014
    MikeK said:

    Tonight's YouGov poll might just deter any further Tory would-be UKIP defectors.

    All the MSM and pollsters are on UKIPs case tonight. Well thats only to be expected. And as usual UKIP will only grow stronger.

    The amount of PB Lab/Lib/Con bile directed at UKIP tonight on this thread is an object lesson in hatred, pure and simple.
    There are other emotions at play too too. I for one make no secret that I want UKIP to win plenty of MPs and see their rise as a good thing for politics, but that doesn't stop me from agreeing with those who say UKIP play up their status as derided outsiders (and yes, I know it is not without some foundation, although it has become increasingly less true) to a silly degree and their spokespeople far too often whinge like they are competing for medals in it.
    I don't dispute it works, but it's so expected and generic each time it really seems no different than any other political party and their inept, lazy spinners, and yet UKIP are trying to appear different.

    In that, they are completely like the others - ascribing standard political behaviours only to their opponents as though they were distinctly partisan behaviours.
  • Options
    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited November 2014

    I don't know what to make of this Stockton poll. Obviously it's really good news for us Tories but 1. it's an individual constituency poll 2. there's no past weighting and 3. it's Lord Ashcroft.

    I think we'd need to see a whole load more polls, but some signs of cautious optimism. To be holding on in November, when most people are miserable, six months out is good.

    It is a poll by Survation......
    Ooops. Good job I didn't have a go at him this time then. My points stand.

    However, much more interesting is Reckless's invented story. I've been around the block enough times to smell bullshit 100 miles away upwind, and this one is bs. The question then is 'why?' There are two explanations:

    Either Reckless is a wet who can't hold his nerve
    Or It's squeaky bum time

    It could be a bit of both. What it isn't is a true story.
    Reckless strikes one as being a complete tool. Is he a fantasist as well?

    Rochester deserves better. Anywhere deserves better.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Why don't we have NightHawk threads these days?

    I enjoy going through those links saying it's the anniversary of the battle of Cannae, Prince Philip's bath night etc.

    I appreciate it takes time to prepare stuff like that.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    fitalass said:

    Farage announcing the by-election result already, and before a vote has been cast....
    Twitter
    Sun Politics @Sun_Politics · 25m 25 minutes ago
    Farage: Cocky Cam has cost Tories by-election victory: http://bit.ly/11iIDPK

    How could "Cocky Cam" cost the Tories a win if UKIP are really 10-15 points ahead?

    Is Nige tacitly implying it's much closer than that?
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    Tim_B said:

    Why don't we have NightHawk threads these days?

    I enjoy going through those links saying it's the anniversary of the battle of Cannae, Prince Philip's bath night etc.

    I appreciate it takes time to prepare stuff like that.

    I think there's been three or four nighthawks since August.

    Politics has got really interesting again, first with the indyref, then with conference season, then this by-election.

    I expect it will be like this between now and May.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:

    Tonight's YouGov poll might just deter any further Tory would-be UKIP defectors.

    All the MSM and pollsters are on UKIPs case tonight. Well thats only to be expected. And as usual UKIP will only grow stronger.

    The amount of PB Lab/Lib/Con bile directed at UKIP tonight on this thread is an object lesson in hatred, pure and simple.
    its nothing in comparison to the racist UKIP.. who knows what they will do to perfectly ordinary citizens of the EU who have a right to be here.. It all sounds very 1933.
    Are you always completely bonkers @SquareRoot?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,137
    edited November 2014
    Tim_B said:

    Why don't we have NightHawk threads these days?

    I enjoy going through those links saying it's the anniversary of the battle of Cannae, Prince Philip's bath night etc.

    I appreciate it takes time to prepare stuff like that.

    Wikipedia is indeed a great friend there.

    It is apparently the 1378th anniversary of The Battle of al-Qādisiyyah between the Rashidun Caliphate and the Sasanian Empire, which resulted in the Islamic conquest of Persia. How might history have turned had things gone the other way?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_al-Qādisiyyah

    I had at least heard of the Sasanian Empire before looking at that page, which is something.

    Also the anniversary of the opening of the Council of Clermont which ended with the call to the first Crusade.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,934
    Cameron backs the #bedroomtax but not the #mansiontax. If you’ve got big money you’ve a friend in this PM; if not, he couldn’t care less.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,137

    Cameron backs the #bedroomtax but not the #mansiontax. If you’ve got big money you’ve a friend in this PM; if not, he couldn’t care less.

    Is it ok for me to support both of those taxes, or am I just ideologically confused I wonder?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    kle4 said:

    Is it ok for me to support both of those taxes, or am I just ideologically confused I wonder?

    One of them is not a tax, so you clearly are confused
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Cameron backs the #bedroomtax but not the #mansiontax. If you’ve got big money you’ve a friend in this PM; if not, he couldn’t care less.

    not seen the bedroom questions on my tax return - is that new ?
  • Options
    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    Cameron backs the #bedroomtax but not the #mansiontax. If you’ve got big money you’ve a friend in this PM; if not, he couldn’t care less.

    He must like you, the amount of money in your pension pot makes you significantly better of than the majority of people in England. You don't seem very appreciative.
This discussion has been closed.