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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Both Tories and UKIP go for the tactical vote in their fin

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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,186
    Indigo said:

    All well and good, but 31% of voters would back Nigel Farage’s party if they believed it could win in their constituency, thats as much as the total Tory VI

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/25/nearly-third-of-voters-prepared-to-support-ukip
    And if they did, then the other 69% of voters would most likely vote tactically to ensure they never got near power...

    That is the downside of now being the most hated mainstream party in Britain.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited November 2014
    Swiss_Bob said:

    Anyone care to give odds on some MP shouting "Marlene!" after Miliband has done the usual pre-question statement.

    A snide comment linking lovely Myleene to “powerful and dark forces” would be my guess. Here they are performing some satanic rite in front of their acolytes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kUKwLC-04g

  • Indigo said:

    I was slightly surprise to read last night that 70 times more people in Africa died this year from Malaria than did from Ebola.
    I think malaria kills more people than every other cause put together aside from old age.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Ishmael_X said:

    I am not a kipper yet - but getting closer with every post I see on here from Miss Jean Brodie - I think the kippers who do post on here are silent about that sort of thing either because they don't know about it (I didn't, and I am here farly regularly) or because they think that it goes without saying that it is disgusting.

    If you want some non-anti-muslim credentials from me, I am a passionate student of classical Arabic, which you can't be without developing some kind of affection for Islam and its (non-deluded) practitioners. All the practice sentences are along the lines of "the preacher in the garden with the book, he is truly the sincere slave of Allah".

    I would agree with that totally, especially the first sentence. As I have said before I am married to an immigrant, and she is one of the most vociferous people I know about saying the number of immigrants is getting out of hand and we need some border controls.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    Indigo said:

    Indeed.

    I don't think Farage wants to be in government, he wants to run a protest party, and ultimately get the UK out of the EU. The problem is none of the main parties support this view so he doesn't have anything to work with, and no one is going to listen to a protest party without an electorate. So they are forced to generate a whole load of policies about things that dont really interest them, so they can try and get some seats, so people will take them seriously about the things that do interest them. If we had a citizen initiated referendum system, as in say California "proposition" system, we could cut through all this crap and just get questions asked that might have popular support, but which for various reasons haven't attracted the support of a major political party.
    I would not hold California up as an example of good government. The referendum system allows the population to vote for unfunded tax cuts and/or spending increases for themselves which inevitably leads to bankruptcy.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    From that Mail piece

    Three Conservative MPs are holding ballots about European Union membership that are almost identical to those carried out by two Ukip defectors.

    All three MPs firmly denied any intention to defect. Mr Bone joked: ‘I haven’t even been invited to lunch [by Ukip].’

    Peter Bone not out to lunch ....

    Some might quibble ....

  • Anorak said:

    A snide comment linking lovely Myleene to “powerful and dark forces” would be my guess.
    Because it's not like people think Labour are already paranoid enough?

    Someone elsewhere suggested that Cameron goes with a comment on Klass War.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Paula Sherriff @paulasherriff
    If multi millionaire Myleene Klass doesn't like mansion tax perhaps she should emigrate with Sol Campbell and Griff Rhys Jones! Toodle pip!

    CCHQ Press Office @CCHQPress
    Will @labourpress be taking any action against Labour candidate who said this? http://order-order.com/2014/11/19/labour-candidate-wants-to-deport-myleene-klass/

    Labour Press Team ✔ @labourpress
    @CCHQPress do you understand the difference between deport and emigrate?
    Is that the best Labour can do?

    That we'd really rather they left but we're not going to force them, that's all OK?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Anorak said:

    A snide comment linking lovely Myleene to “powerful and dark forces” would be my guess. Here they are performing some satanic rite in front of their acolytes.
    Can someone tell me how to link to youtube without crapping up the thread? I'd appreciate it.
  • Swiss_Bob said:

    I think malaria kills more people than every other cause put together aside from old age.
    Geometrical progressions are scarier than arithmetical progressions:

    http://www.naturphilosophie.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Ebola_Worst_Case_Scenario_January2015_CDC.jpg
  • Ishmael_X said:

    I am not a kipper yet - but getting closer with every post I see on here from Miss Jean Brodie - I think the kippers who do post on here are silent about that sort of thing either because they don't know about it (I didn't, and I am here farly regularly) or because they think that it goes without saying that it is disgusting.

    If you want some non-anti-muslim credentials from me, I am a passionate student of classical Arabic, which you can't be without developing some kind of affection for Islam and its (non-deluded) practitioners. All the practice sentences are along the lines of "the preacher in the garden with the book, he is truly the sincere slave of Allah".

    Oh I know, it's just fun to wind the Kippers up they are very entertaining, every zoo should have a pair.

    In all honesty, the best conversation I've ever had about being British was with a Kipper on here a few years ago.

    I know most Kippers aren't obsessed with race or Islam.

    Richard Tyndall managed to articulate something I've been wanting to for years, but never had the ability to do so.

    He said to paraphrase, it doesn't matter where you were born, or what it says on your passport, being British is a state of mind.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Grandiose said:

    Is that the best Labour can do?

    Oh I think they can dig a bit deeper still..

    @CCHQPress: .@labourpress So anyone that speaks out against your Homes Tax should leave country? cc @jowellt,@DavidLammy,@Andrew_Adonis,@HackneyAbbott
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MrHarryCole: Labour call UKIP "BNP-lite", then defend their candidate who suggested Myleene Klass and Sol Campbell were not welcome in this country.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    I would not hold California up as an example of good government. The referendum system allows the population to vote for unfunded tax cuts and/or spending increases for themselves which inevitably leads to bankruptcy.
    The joys of democracy.. alternatively you can choose not to give the people what they want, so more an elected dictatorship.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Even the Daily Mail have a go at Reckless

    Ukip's Mark Reckless jeered for suggesting EU migrants could be deported after a 'fixed period'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2840189/Ukip-candidate-jeered-hinting-EU-arrivals-repatriated.html

    I'm making contingency plans in case of deportation from the UK under a future UKIP government. I plan to go somewhere with better weather.

  • Grandiose said:

    Paula Sherriff @paulasherriff
    If multi millionaire Myleene Klass doesn't like mansion tax perhaps she should emigrate with Sol Campbell and Griff Rhys Jones! Toodle pip!

    CCHQ Press Office @CCHQPress
    Will @labourpress be taking any action against Labour candidate who said this? http://order-order.com/2014/11/19/labour-candidate-wants-to-deport-myleene-klass/

    Labour Press Team ✔ @labourpress
    @CCHQPress do you understand the difference between deport and emigrate?
    Is that the best Labour can do?

    That we'd really rather they left but we're not going to force them, that's all OK?

    A Kipper candidate was forced to resign for saying the same thing about Lenny Henry. He used the word emigrate, although he did say to a black country, can't say I see a lot of difference.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Grandiose said:

    Paula Sherriff @paulasherriff
    If multi millionaire Myleene Klass doesn't like mansion tax perhaps she should emigrate with Sol Campbell and Griff Rhys Jones! Toodle pip!

    CCHQ Press Office @CCHQPress
    Will @labourpress be taking any action against Labour candidate who said this? http://order-order.com/2014/11/19/labour-candidate-wants-to-deport-myleene-klass/

    Labour Press Team ✔ @labourpress
    @CCHQPress do you understand the difference between deport and emigrate?
    Is that the best Labour can do?

    That we'd really rather they left but we're not going to force them, that's all OK?

    Utterly pathetic

    Russell Brand and Owen Jones will be running the Conservative party soon at this rate.. they're already stealing their lines
  • Neil said:

    I'm making contingency plans in case of deportation from the UK under a future UKIP government. I plan to go somewhere with better weather.

    Take me with you!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,186
    Grandiose said:

    Paula Sherriff @paulasherriff
    If multi millionaire Myleene Klass doesn't like mansion tax perhaps she should emigrate with Sol Campbell and Griff Rhys Jones! Toodle pip!

    CCHQ Press Office @CCHQPress
    Will @labourpress be taking any action against Labour candidate who said this? http://order-order.com/2014/11/19/labour-candidate-wants-to-deport-myleene-klass/

    Labour Press Team ✔ @labourpress
    @CCHQPress do you understand the difference between deport and emigrate?
    Is that the best Labour can do?

    That we'd really rather they left but we're not going to force them, that's all OK?

    I assume that Paula Sherriff will be personally making up the tax that these rich people do currently pay? Otherwise it will no longer be there to fund the NHS...

    Why do Labour hate the NHS so much?


  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited November 2014
    Swiss_Bob said:

    Anyone care to give odds on some MP shouting "Marlene!" after Miliband has done the usual pre-question statement.

    More ....

    Con MP - " .... and is it not the case that the Leader of the Opposition has recently shown himself to be in a class of his own. That is bottom of the Myleene Klass."

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited November 2014
    Swiss_Bob said:

    Is that the best Labour can do?

    That we'd really rather they left but we're not going to force them, that's all OK?
    A Kipper candidate was forced to resign for saying the same thing about Lenny Henry. He used the word emigrate, although he did say to a black country, can't say I see a lot of difference.Oh, come on. I like to poke Labour in the metaphorical eye as much as the next man, but the kipper was telling Lenny to go home because of the colour of his skin, whereas the Labour candidate was reacting to people saying they'd leave voluntarily if a new tax came in. Seizing on the fact that two of the people happen to have non-white parents is straw-clutching.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Roger said:

    EiT

    "Labour's tabloid pandering is going beyond the trivial and harmless and getting hard to distinguish from the Tories,"

    I think you're right. If what I heard yesterday on immigrant bashing turns out to be more than one person going off piste I'll probably waste my vote on the Greens who I have little time for but at least aren't part of the group grovelling in the gutter for the votes of Mail and Sun readers. Unfortunately too many Lib Dems have soiled themselves for ministerial trappings for my taste

    Bloody hell, if even you are struggling to vote Labour they really are going to have trouble come the election.
  • Re. Brixton. Pre war it was a fashionable stockbroker and luvvie suburb. Was declining in favour of further out by WW2 and got a pasting in the war. The numerous georgian piles were bought by buy to let landlords and turned into houses of multiple occupation rented out at bottom end of market.

    When first immigrants arrived from west indies at Waterloo from boats docking at Southampton they were put up in the Northern Line deep level air raid shelters at Clapham and Stockwell.Nearby Brixton was the nearest place with a fair bit of affordable available rented accomodation
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,183
    edited November 2014
    Anorak said:

    Can someone tell me how to link to youtube without crapping up the thread? I'd appreciate it.
    Post the link without the https://

    Like thus

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Take me with you!
    It's the pubs that will have to cease trading after I'm deported by UKIP that I feel sorry for.

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Looking for the support of the authoritarian Green Party is the last refuge of a hopeless Tory candidate.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Anorak said:

    the Labour candidate was reacting to people saying they'd leave voluntarily if a new tax came in.

    Did Myleene say she would leave to avoid the 'Mansion Tax' ?
  • Neil said:

    It's the pubs that will have to cease trading after I'm deported by UKIP that I feel sorry for.

    But getting rid of the gay EU immigrant that causes bad weather is the ultimate fantasy of some Kippers.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Swiss_Bob said:

    Is that the best Labour can do?

    That we'd really rather they left but we're not going to force them, that's all OK?
    A Kipper candidate was forced to resign for saying the same thing about Lenny Henry. He used the word emigrate, although he did say to a black country, can't say I see a lot of difference.

    Labour act as if they wouldn't mind if all sorts of "undeserving rich" decided to emigrate if they got elected, they seem to have forgotten the brain drain in the 70s with Healey's tax regime, and people were much less mobile then than they are now. One only needs to look at the exodus of well-heeled France as a result of the policies of "Flanby". Then they will look around and notice there are rather less rich people paying the taxes.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,186
    JackW said:

    More ....

    Con MP - " .... and is it not the case that the Leader of the Opposition has recently shown himself to be in a class of his own. That is bottom of the Myleene Klass."

    Klass Warrior!

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Neil said:

    I'm making contingency plans in case of deportation from the UK under a future UKIP government. I plan to go somewhere with better weather.

    Not the Republic of Ireland then.

  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    The Tories are getting so desperate their press twitter feed is starting to resemble the shrill whining of a spoiled snotty kid telling tales to teacher.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,714

    keyboard skills?
    Just as well for my own one I wasn't drinking coffee! There are actually some very active internet types in SLAB, to be fair, and one might suspect that they are reluctant to engage in public debate on a site infested with Tories, Libs and, by far worst of all, socialist-minded pro-indy Scots. The Scotsman and Graun comments pages seem more their habitat, and I recall one particularly strident specimen who, rumour had it, closed down on becoming a SLAB candidate and then a MSP, though by the nature of such things I have no idea if it is true. Shame if so because Mr Palmer has blazed an alternative and IMO rather more fruitful route.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Scott_P said:

    Did Myleene say she would leave to avoid the 'Mansion Tax' ?
    No, the other two did, and that is why Labour said maybe she might want to join them I suppose
  • Paul_Mid_BedsPaul_Mid_Beds Posts: 1,409
    edited November 2014



    Oh I know, it's just fun to wind the Kippers up they are very entertaining, every zoo should have a pair.

    In all honesty, the best conversation I've ever had about being British was with a Kipper on here a few years ago.

    I know most Kippers aren't obsessed with race or Islam.

    Richard Tyndall managed to articulate something I've been wanting to for years, but never had the ability to do so.

    He said to paraphrase, it doesn't matter where you were born, or what it says on your passport, being British is a state of mind.

    ie British is a culture not a race.

    Which is why a multi racial Britain is fine, but multi culturalism is a disaster. That dosent mean that we all have to eat fish and chips and be c of e with curries and other religions verboten, but it does mean a set of core values has to have primacy over other values.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Anorak said:

    A Kipper candidate was forced to resign for saying the same thing about Lenny Henry. He used the word emigrate, although he did say to a black country, can't say I see a lot of difference.
    Oh, come on. I like to poke Labour in the metaphorical eye as much as the next man, but the kipper was telling Lenny to go home because of the colour of his skin, whereas the Labour candidate was reacting to people saying they'd leave voluntarily if a new tax came in. Seizing on the fact that two of the people happen to have non-white parents is straw-clutching.
    Dead wrong. Henry wanted to be in a country with more black comedians, so "go to a black country" was perfectly good advice and based not on his skin colour but on his own stated -and frankly racist - preference as to the skin colour of comedians.

    My view is that the principal requirement of comedians is that they should be funny, which rules out Henry anywhere.



  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Scott_P said:

    Did Myleene say she would leave to avoid the 'Mansion Tax' ?
    No she didn't, she exercised her democratic right to speak out against a policy she disagreed with. She wouldn't exactly be the first person to speak against a policy that would disadvantage them personally, I dont know where its written that people must comment on policy only from the most pure of motives. Her heresy was being a young luvvie from a modest background, who's made a bit of money, but does lots of charity work, and therefore owed her allegiance to the Labour party daring to call bullshit on the beloved leader.
  • isam said:

    No, the other two did, and that is why Labour said maybe she might want to join them I suppose
    Telling the lovely Myleene she should sod off out of the country may not be racist but it is not a vote winner either!! Everyone loves Myleene !
  • Anorak said:

    A Kipper candidate was forced to resign for saying the same thing about Lenny Henry. He used the word emigrate, although he did say to a black country, can't say I see a lot of difference.
    Oh, come on. I like to poke Labour in the metaphorical eye as much as the next man, but the kipper was telling Lenny to go home because of the colour of his skin, whereas the Labour candidate was reacting to people saying they'd leave voluntarily if a new tax came in. Seizing on the fact that two of the people happen to have non-white parents is straw-clutching.Precisely. Although it is a little bit daft to conflate GRJ, who actually said he'd emigrate over the mansion tax, thus making him a fair target of the comment, Campbell who said he'd like to politically campaign against it, and Klass who mouthed off about it on a talk show.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,186
    Indigo said:

    A Kipper candidate was forced to resign for saying the same thing about Lenny Henry. He used the word emigrate, although he did say to a black country, can't say I see a lot of difference.
    Labour act as if they wouldn't mind if all sorts of "undeserving rich" decided to emigrate if they got elected, they seem to have forgotten the brain drain in the 70s with Healey's tax regime, and people were much less mobile then than they are now. One only needs to look at the exodus of well-heeled France as a result of the policies of "Flanby". Then they will look around and notice there are rather less rich people paying the taxes.

    What was the stat the other day - the richest 3,000 pay more tax than the poorest 9 million combined? It will be Labour's genius to cause those 3,000 to feck off - meaning the 9 million will have to be burdened.... Or wield the axe on public services more violently. Cuz they sure as hell can't borrow it like they used to.

    Toodle pip Labour, toddle pip....
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Indigo said:

    No she didn't, she exercised her democratic right to speak out against a policy she disagreed with. She wouldn't exactly be the first person to speak against a policy that would disadvantage them personally, I dont know where its written that people must comment on policy only from the most pure of motives. Her heresy was being a young luvvie from a modest background, who's made a bit of money, but does lots of charity work, and therefore owed her allegiance to the Labour party daring to call bullshit on the beloved leader.
    Myleene Klass has got pretty short shrift from most of the general public though.

    Other than the dwindling band of Tories.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @hugorifkind: So according to Mark Reckless Ukip wants to kick out migrants from the EU, unless they've come from the EU. These guys are fucking geniuses.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966


    He said to paraphrase, it doesn't matter where you were born, or what it says on your passport, being British is a state of mind.

    ie British is a culture not a race.

    Which is why a multi racial Britain is fine, but multi culturalism is a disaster. That doesn't mean that we all have to eat fish and chips and be c of e with curries and other religions verboten, but it does mean a set of core values has to have primacy over other values.

    I would like to associate myself with the comments made by my honorable colleague some moments go.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    Labour act as if they wouldn't mind if all sorts of "undeserving rich" decided to emigrate if they got elected, they seem to have forgotten the brain drain in the 70s with Healey's tax regime, and people were much less mobile then than they are now. One only needs to look at the exodus of well-heeled France as a result of the policies of "Flanby". Then they will look around and notice there are rather less rich people paying the taxes.
    What was the stat the other day - the richest 3,000 pay more tax than the poorest 9 million combined? It will be Labour's genius to cause those 3,000 to feck off - meaning the 9 million will have to be burdened.... Or wield the axe on public services more violently. Cuz they sure as hell can't borrow it like they used to.

    Toodle pip Labour, toddle pip....

    If the work is here, the tax will stay here.
  • Rafael Behr has written a very good piece in the Guardian under a really shoddily chosen headline:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/19/lesson-for-labour-rochester-ed-miliband-tax-spend

    "The Rochester result will be woven into the fashionable thesis, advanced by Conservative commentators, that Miliband is presiding over inevitable Labour decline. He is failing to capture the public imagination, it is argued, not because he is a poor evangelist for his ideas (although he is) but because the kind of party he leads is out of tune with the spirit of the age: Labour only knows how to govern by raising taxes, borrowing and spending – an approach on which voters have resolutely turned their backs.

    This Obsolete Labour theory has a counterpart on the left, which holds that unavoidable austerity is a Tory fiction to which Miliband has cravenly surrendered and that electoral salvation lies in a more thorough rejection of “neoliberal” capitalism (and the denunciation of that doctrine’s wicked “Blairite” idolaters). That view is nurtured by the apparent success of anti-austerity nationalism in formerly Labour-voting parts of Scotland, and in recent opinion poll gains by the Green party.

    So Miliband, whose party still has a slender lead in opinion polls, is said to be losing because he is wedded to the doctrines of the left, and because he is a captive of the right. Neither claim is true but the latter is more dangerous. The idea that Labour could turn things around by scrambling on to an anti-austerity barricade is as deluded as the view among fanatical Tories that their fortunes would be restored under a leader who would go the extra mile towards Ukip positions on immigration and Europe."

    "Renewing a party after a long stint in power and an electoral drubbing is a grind, as the Tories found after 1997. Even by 2010 they had not earned enough trust to win a majority. There are no short cuts for Labour; no magic portal marked “radicalism” that will carry Miliband closer to power. His critics on the left and right seem determined to write off this parliament as a waste, but the truth is more mundane. Miliband set out to solve the question of Labour’s relevance after its great defeat and got some of the way there. Now he is out of time.

    So he faces the electorate with half an answer that gives him only half a chance of getting to Downing Street. If he fails, his successor will have to solve the same problem: how to offer government as the guarantor of progress when politicians aren’t trusted. It can be done by building on Miliband’s work so far or by trashing it and starting again; which leads to the same destination but takes longer."
  • BenM said:

    The Tories are getting so desperate their press twitter feed is starting to resemble the shrill whining of a spoiled snotty kid telling tales to teacher.

    Labour can't talk - 'look teacher David Cameron won't wear this T-shirt !'
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    Indigo said:

    The joys of democracy.. alternatively you can choose not to give the people what they want, so more an elected dictatorship.
    Ask the Greeks how "democratic" a bankrupt country that has been taken over by the IMF is.
  • Courtesy of John Rentoul on twitter, a map of public debt in Europe:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2vmKf3IgAEcqgC.jpg

    It would be good to have a parallel map of deficits.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,636

    Once the faux outrage over Mark Reckless' comments has died down, will the Conservatives be prepared to admit that if they can renegotiate the free movement of people throughout the EU, then some EU citizens will have to leave once their visas expire?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Eagles,

    "You must have missed my setting up a new economically dry, not obsessed with the gays and the EU New Tory Party."

    I was with you until you mentioned the EU New Tory Party.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    BenM said:

    What was the stat the other day - the richest 3,000 pay more tax than the poorest 9 million combined? It will be Labour's genius to cause those 3,000 to feck off - meaning the 9 million will have to be burdened.... Or wield the axe on public services more violently. Cuz they sure as hell can't borrow it like they used to.

    Toodle pip Labour, toddle pip....
    If the work is here, the tax will stay here.

    No. Look at how many doctors are currently leaving medical school and going to jobs in Australia, because it pays better, and involves less hours. To the extend that my brother-in-law can't fill slots in his practise even though he has the budget. All those doctors are paying tax in Australia, not the UK, despite the jobs being here. In the mobile modern world people won't stay with the jobs if the conditions are crap, or the taxes are too high, they will go somewhere else. In the 70s we had industries crying out for high end practitioners of all sorts of technical skills, but because of the genius of Healey's taxation policies, anyone that could find a job abroad, did.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,543
    edited November 2014
    Ishmael_X said:

    Oh, come on. I like to poke Labour in the metaphorical eye as much as the next man, but the kipper was telling Lenny to go home because of the colour of his skin, whereas the Labour candidate was reacting to people saying they'd leave voluntarily if a new tax came in. Seizing on the fact that two of the people happen to have non-white parents is straw-clutching.
    Dead wrong. Henry wanted to be in a country with more black comedians, so "go to a black country" was perfectly good advice and based not on his skin colour but on his own stated -and frankly racist - preference as to the skin colour of comedians.

    My view is that the principal requirement of comedians is that they should be funny, which rules out Henry anywhere.





    He does go home to the black country though !
  • Wow, Paula Sheriff really is a nasty piece of work.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    antifrank said:

    Courtesy of John Rentoul on twitter, a map of public debt in Europe:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2vmKf3IgAEcqgC.jpg

    It would be good to have a parallel map of deficits.

    Fraser Nelson produced a bar chart.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/did-george-osborne-halve-britains-eu-bill-by-admitting-that-his-growth-is-a-mirage/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,543

    Telling the lovely Myleene she should sod off out of the country may not be racist but it is not a vote winner either!! Everyone loves Myleene !
    She regularly leaves the country, and enjoys spending time on yachts.

    I've researched this on Google extensively.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    I think there are probably more people wishing that Ed Miliband would leave the country rather than the delightful Myleene.

  • CD13 said:

    Mr Eagles,

    "You must have missed my setting up a new economically dry, not obsessed with the gays and the EU New Tory Party."

    I was with you until you mentioned the EU New Tory Party.

    It should have had a comma in there.

    Having checked with the co-founder, Scrapheap, the name is

    The economically dry, not obsessed with the gays and the EU, Tory Party.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    Mark Senior in dreamland
    Great "value loser" story though :)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,636
    isam said:

    You can see silence?

    One person made the EDL comment once didn't he? How is once "regularly"?

    And if they are regularly saying/linking this stuff, how are they being silent?
    I can't recall that I, Socrates, Richard Tyndall, Isam, Mike K, Hurst Llama, David Kendrick et al have ever agued that the EDL is the voice of voice of reason or that you "can't trust a fucking Muslim." This is just silly trolling.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,543

    It should have had a comma in there.

    Having checked with the co-founder, Scrapheap, the name is

    The economically dry, not obsessed with the gays and the EU, Tory Party.
    Leaders market:

    TSE 6-4
    Scrapheap 4-1
    Jeremy Browne 10-1
    Ken Clarke 20-1 ?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    Carnyx said:



    Just as well for my own one I wasn't drinking coffee! There are actually some very active internet types in SLAB, to be fair, and one might suspect that they are reluctant to engage in public debate on a site infested with Tories, Libs and, by far worst of all, socialist-minded pro-indy Scots. The Scotsman and Graun comments pages seem more their habitat, and I recall one particularly strident specimen who, rumour had it, closed down on becoming a SLAB candidate and then a MSP, though by the nature of such things I have no idea if it is true. Shame if so because Mr Palmer has blazed an alternative and IMO rather more fruitful route.

    Being a PPC or MP/MSP and contributing to a general blog has obvious dangers, but I don't see much point in being in politics at all if one's not prepared to engage. To be fair, the party has never been seriously bothered - very occasionally (I think twice in 20 years) it's been suggested that I could run my thoughts past someone else before publishing. I snorted derisively and heard no more of it. I'm reasonably careful not to say anything that I'd be embarrassed to see on the front page of the Mail, but then that would apply even with private conversations.


    ie British is a culture not a race.

    Which is why a multi racial Britain is fine, but multi culturalism is a disaster. That dosent mean that we all have to eat fish and chips and be c of e with curries and other religions verboten, but it does mean a set of core values has to have primacy over other values.

    Personally I think the most important British value is not having to adhere to a defined set of British values. That doesn't mean we have to like everyone else's values, merely that we don't make them illegal.

    Sure, we can work out a few that we'd probably all agree to but as soon as we move much beyond platitudes we find people who seem impeccably British but disagree. Can you define a set of British values that you are confident that you, I, SeanT, Socrates and Edmund would all agree with? And if one of us didn't, would you remove our passports, or what?

  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Indigo said:

    If the work is here, the tax will stay here.
    No. Look at how many doctors are currently leaving medical school and going to jobs in Australia, because it pays better, and involves less hours. To the extend that my brother-in-law can't fill slots in his practise even though he has the budget. All those doctors are paying tax in Australia, not the UK, despite the jobs being here. In the mobile modern world people won't stay with the jobs if the conditions are crap, or the taxes are too high, they will go somewhere else. In the 70s we had industries crying out for high end practitioners of all sorts of technical skills, but because of the genius of Healey's taxation policies, anyone that could find a job abroad, did.

    Your post proves my point.

    If the work is here, the tax will stay. A doctor flying out to Oz is doing work in Oz. Still plenty of patients in the UK last I looked.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited November 2014
    antifrank said:

    o he faces the electorate with half an answer that gives him only half a chance of getting to Downing Street. If he fails, his successor will have to solve the same problem: how to offer government as the guarantor of progress when politicians aren’t trusted. It can be done by building on Miliband’s work so far or by trashing it and starting again; which leads to the same destination but takes longer."

    It wasn't bad until the last paragraph. The key question Labour will have to decide is whether Miliband's work is actually worth saving, hanging on to ideas and nostrums that won't sail with the electorate, and polishing them for another five years before failing again, isn't going to do their party any favours.

    Milibandism with a better presenter, and a bit more polish might win the electorate over in the short term, until they realise how hollow it is. It doesn't answer the basic question concerning what a left of centre party actually does when there is no money to hand out to deserving causes, and no realistic chance of squeeze significant amounts of tax out of the country without Atlas Shrugging.

    They may feel that scrapping it, and spending the extra time on something with a solid intellectual underpinning, and purpose might be time well spent.
  • There is evidence that the British are genetically homogenous:

    These topical questions – hot potatoes in political debates ranging from potential Scottish independence to Britain’s role in the European Union – have now also been probed at the most fundamental level of all in ground-breaking research by an eminent team of Oxford researchers. The team, led by Oxford geneticist Professor Sir Walter Bodmer, has conducted a detailed and wide-ranging study of the genetic make-up of the Peoples of the British Isles (PoBI). Fascinatingly, their findings show that most people living in the British Isles are fundamentally extremely similar, genetically-speaking at least.

    http://www.oxfordtoday.ox.ac.uk/features/what-makes-british

    So whether you think the people of the British Isles are a race is more of a political question because the DNA says they are.
  • Mr. Palmer, that comes across very weak-kneed. British values could start with the belief in the legitimacy of democracy, the right to choose, and leave, whatever religious position one likes, and that all are equal under the law.

    Those might seem obvious, but consider Tower Hamlets and Rotherham and it's clear some simply do not share those most basic of civilised views.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    BenM said:

    Your post proves my point.

    If the work is here, the tax will stay. A doctor flying out to Oz is doing work in Oz. Still plenty of patients in the UK last I looked.
    And not enough doctors to see to them here, and pay tax here, because they are busy paying their taxes in Aus!
  • A Neil tearing new 'holes' in Labour on the DP.

    He must have read Dan Hodges piece on Labour stealing UKIP's policies.
  • BenM said:

    What was the stat the other day - the richest 3,000 pay more tax than the poorest 9 million combined? It will be Labour's genius to cause those 3,000 to feck off - meaning the 9 million will have to be burdened.... Or wield the axe on public services more violently. Cuz they sure as hell can't borrow it like they used to.

    Toodle pip Labour, toddle pip....
    If the work is here, the tax will stay here.

    Indeed. IF. But for these 3,000 the work is where they choose it to be in many if not most cases. The tax regime inspires that decision. Ask Hollande.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,745
    Swiss_Bob said:

    A Neil tearing new 'holes' in Labour on the DP.

    He must have read Dan Hodges piece on Labour stealing UKIP's policies.

    Which holes?

  • Which holes?

    I didn't want to be rude :-)
  • Pulpstar said:

    Leaders market:

    TSE 6-4
    Scrapheap 4-1
    Jeremy Browne 10-1
    Ken Clarke 20-1 ?
    I will not accept if nominated and will not serve if elected.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Which holes?

    Perhaps the aresholes in the Labour party mimicking Ukip immigration policies ?

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Eagles,

    "The economically dry, not obsessed with the gays and the EU, Tory Party"

    Better.

    Now you just need to work on the penultimate word.
  • Sean_F said:

    I can't recall that I, Socrates, Richard Tyndall, Isam, Mike K, Hurst Llama, David Kendrick et al have ever agued that the EDL is the voice of voice of reason or that you "can't trust a fucking Muslim." This is just silly trolling.

    I had the 'pleasure' of having all my fingers broken by some kind fellows from the NF back in the 1980s. I was no fan of them before the event. Needless to say I was no more kindly disposed towards them afterwards. I really do bow to no one in my opposition to racist hate groups like the EDL, BNP or Britain First.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited November 2014
    Patrick said:

    Indeed. IF. But for these 3,000 the work is where they choose it to be in many if not most cases. The tax regime inspires that decision. Ask Hollande.

    And not just those 3,000

    http://rt.com/news/brain-drain-britain-immigration-546/
    In addition, last year a record amount of graduates quit the UK in search of employment in more favorable job climates.

    Government statistics showed that in 2011, an average of one in 10 students looked for jobs abroad after graduating. The UK’s most successful higher education institutions were looked at in the report, including Cambridge, Durham, Exeter and Oxford.

    Director of The Emigration Group, Paul Arthur, told the Yorkshire Post “there has never been a better time to emigrate.”

    “The UK is continuing to experience a ‘brain drain’, with many Brits in professional or managerial positions emigrating to pursue careers abroad.”

    British expat John Lucas, who moved to Australia three years ago, told the English publication “he had no plans to return to England.”

    “With the 2008 global recession, the UK market was slow. But in Australia the market is still booming and there remains a great deal of opportunity for a construction business,” the 32-year-old said.
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited November 2014
    Sean_F said:

    Once the faux outrage over Mark Reckless' comments has died down, will the Conservatives be prepared to admit that if they can renegotiate the free movement of people throughout the EU, then some EU citizens will have to leave once their visas expire?

    The problem is that EU citizens, in the exercise of their Treaty rights, do not need a permit or leave to remain. Once here, they are effectively treated as having indefinite leave to remain (ILR) (with additional rights such as the right to vote in local and European Parliamentary elections). To subject them to a time-limited visa, after a renegotiation or exit, would be tantamount to converting a non-EU citizen's ILR into leave to remain for a fixed time or a work permit. It is therefore a retrospective limitation of legal rights, and should be frowned upon by those who support the rule of law.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2014
    Swiss Bob

    What is 'extrememly similar'? All humans share 99.something% of their DNA. We are 99.0% the same as chimps, 65% banana, more than 50% with amoeba apparently. Did they look at French DNA - I'm sure the results would be exactly the same (99.something% not 50%!). But just look at how different they are!.
  • New Thread
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,046
    edited November 2014
    Mr. Patrick, indeed, all know Yorkshiremen have the blood of Vikings in their veins.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    dr_spyn said:

    Looking for the support of the authoritarian Green Party is the last refuge of a hopeless Tory candidate.

    Once upon a time the notion of the Left tacitly supporting a hard right ex Tory (now masquerading under a Ukip banner) would have been anathema. Now for short term tactical advantage Labour fail to put in proper resources into fighting this seat effectively on the basis my enemy's enemy is my friend. So what is precisely wrong with Tolhurst asking for support from wavering Green voters (and others who might not want a Ukip MP representing Rochester)?

    As for your little dig it is true Tolhurst is politically inexperienced at this level. However it appears both the Tories political enemies and sadly some of the intellectual and social snobs on here and elsewhere have pigeon holed her as as inarticulate and aggressive but the majority of what she has to say has just been good common sense and suggests she might make a diligent local MP. Her tweets a while back on Gaza show another side of her as someone who is clearly compassionate and a free thinker even though on that issue I happen to disagree with her. It has also become clear from this campaign she is a hard worker and committed. We actually need more people like Kelly in parliament representing the three main parties - maybe then the disinterested public might relate more to the political process.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Patrick said:

    Swiss Bob

    What is 'extrememly similar'? All humans share 99.something% of their DNA. We are 99.0% the same as chimps, 65% banana, more than 50% with amoeba apparently. Did they look at French DNA - I'm sure the results would be exactly the same (99.something% not 50%!). But just look at how different they are!.

    I was about to say the same thing!
  • Sean_F said:


    Once the faux outrage over Mark Reckless' comments has died down, will the Conservatives be prepared to admit that if they can renegotiate the free movement of people throughout the EU, then some EU citizens will have to leave once their visas expire?

    The real issue is that as time moves on, UKIP will become more vulnerable to these events as the loose approach to policy making by Farage is put under scrutiny. Of course this all takes time and UKIP may not suffer the downsides from this until after the GE. Reckless thinks he has the intelligence to know what all UKIPs policies are..... But it is a puzzle how anyone can consider joining UKIP, when its policy positions are in a constant state of change and subject to which side of the bed (or whose) that Farage gets out of. Are they really socialists on the NHS or Thatcherites? No one really knows.
  • Re. Brixton. Pre war it was a fashionable stockbroker and luvvie suburb. Was declining in favour of further out by WW2 and got a pasting in the war. The numerous georgian piles were bought by buy to let landlords and turned into houses of multiple occupation rented out at bottom end of market.

    When first immigrants arrived from west indies at Waterloo from boats docking at Southampton they were put up in the Northern Line deep level air raid shelters at Clapham and Stockwell.Nearby Brixton was the nearest place with a fair bit of affordable available rented accomodation

    Tilbury. And wasn't it the Labour Exchange that was in Brixton? Details I know.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,045
    edited November 2014
    Just heard the news leading with Recklass suggesting repatriating someone or other. I wonder whether this will win him votes in Rochester or lose them?

    As I said on the other thread having heard Cameron proposing taking citizenship away from those fighting in Syria I suspect it's been researched and found to be a winner

    I think Cameron's policy is more dangerous because it's so arbitrary. At least Recklass could work out some rules that might apply accross bthe board.

    What would Cameron suggest for UK citizens fighting for Israel or for the official Syrian opposition or in Africa and does it make a difference whether you are on the side of the government of the country or against it? Is a medic for ISIS better or worse than a fighter for the Free Syrian Army.......Who decides who loses their citizenship?

    In other words like so much that Cameron suggests a load of bollocks....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,639
    Grandiose said:

    Paula Sherriff @paulasherriff
    If multi millionaire Myleene Klass doesn't like mansion tax perhaps she should emigrate with Sol Campbell and Griff Rhys Jones! Toodle pip!

    CCHQ Press Office @CCHQPress
    Will @labourpress be taking any action against Labour candidate who said this? http://order-order.com/2014/11/19/labour-candidate-wants-to-deport-myleene-klass/

    Labour Press Team ✔ @labourpress
    @CCHQPress do you understand the difference between deport and emigrate?
    Is that the best Labour can do?

    That we'd really rather they left but we're not going to force them, that's all OK?

    perfect riposte to a thick Tory who obviously has no clue how to read a sentence or understand basics.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,639
    Scott_P said:

    @MrHarryCole: Labour call UKIP "BNP-lite", then defend their candidate who suggested Myleene Klass and Sol Campbell were not welcome in this country.

    another thick Tory missing the point
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,639
    Scott_P said:

    Did Myleene say she would leave to avoid the 'Mansion Tax' ?
    He merely pointed out she could avoid paying it by sodding off with her millions
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,639

    Is that the best Labour can do?

    That we'd really rather they left but we're not going to force them, that's all OK?
    I assume that Paula Sherriff will be personally making up the tax that these rich people do currently pay? Otherwise it will no longer be there to fund the NHS...

    Why do Labour hate the NHS so much?




    For sure they will be paying buttons, other than to accountants.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,639

    Telling the lovely Myleene she should sod off out of the country may not be racist but it is not a vote winner either!! Everyone loves Myleene !
    Oh no they don't
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Pulpstar said:

    Dead wrong. Henry wanted to be in a country with more black comedians, so "go to a black country" was perfectly good advice and based not on his skin colour but on his own stated -and frankly racist - preference as to the skin colour of comedians.

    My view is that the principal requirement of comedians is that they should be funny, which rules out Henry anywhere.



    He does go home to the black country though !

    To paraphrase the late Bob Monkhouse.

    When Lenny Henry stated that he wanted to be a leading coloured comedian, people laughed at him.

    Well they're not laughing now.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited November 2014
    .
This discussion has been closed.