Sam Coates Times retweeted Robin Brant@robindbrant·4 mins4 minutes ago .@ukip 'clarifies' comments from @MarkReckless at debate last night when he appeared to say migrants should be repatriated if UK leaves EU
I don't see issue, if we leave the EU then of course those in this country illegally will have to go home or be deported. The political media elite picking another fight in an area where their opinion diverges wildly from the public.
We have millions of illegals at present and how many get sent back every year?
What normally happens is we ignore them and then hand out UK passports like confetti. I note none of the top 4 in 2013 were from the EU - cannot access full data! But it'd be wacist to point this out.
We can also safely vouch the Paksitani contingent will reliably vote Labour and import their brides.
A nice example of kipper paranoia untethered to any basis in reality.
You can't seriously think there are less than 1m illegal migrants in the UK?
Even the Express (UKIP hysteria central) has used the figure of 800,000. How many millions of illegal immigrants do you think there are, and on what basis that goes beyond your fevered imagination?
There are thirteen candidates in the by-election. Tolhurst lies at the very bottom of the ballot paper, with Reckless two places above - the independent [escort] Charlotte Rose lies between them.
There are more than six billion different ways of ordering the candidates on the ballot paper, but the people of Rochester and Strood will all use a ballot paper with the candidates in alphabetical order, placing the munitions expert Mr Barker at the top of the ballot paper, just ahead of a second independent, Mr Challis and the Monster Raving Looney Party. Surely it's time to randomise the order of the candidates on the ballot paper?
As far as I can tell, the record number of deposits saved in a by-election is five [ten times]. To break this record three deposits will have to be saved by the Greens, Liberal Democrats and independent candidates or other minor parties.
Ahmed Khan was the most recent independent to save their deposit, at the South Shields by-election in 2013. Other notable saved deposits in by-elections during this Parliament include Imdad Hussain (Peace Party), at Middlesborough, 2012 and at the Rotherham by-election deposits were saved by the candidates for the BNP and Respect.
I don't think the Green Party has yet saved a deposit in a by-election during this Parliament, which possibly suggests that their vote will be one of the most uneven across the country, and that they are unlikely to challenge the Liberal Democrats in national vote share.
Next Tory MP to join UKIP market at Lads offers up Mark Pritchard at 6-1.The recent photo with Farage is circulating widely and they seem to make a happy couple.The MP has the usual headbanger profile necessary to be Ukip fodder, and R&S could persuade him to go the way of his old mate Reckless.The Wrekin is probably better territory for a Ukip than R&S.
Are UKIP prepared to say just how much the cost of the massive increase in govt bureaucracy that will be needed to issue every EU citizen in the UK with a biometric visa will require (plus dealing with the inevitable legal challenge)? What about the cost to business of having to apply for a Tier 2 visa every time they need to transfer an EU employee into the UK?
Bonus points if you identify which taxes you will raise to pay for it.
Legal challenge to where, if we have just left the EU, we are not bound by the ECJ or the ECHR
Membership of the ECHR has nothing to do with being in the EU. There will be challenges under Article 8 etc.
Incorrect. Membership of the ECHR is required by membership of the EU. We can not leave the convention while we remain a member. Thus they are intrinsically connected.
It astonishes me that UKIP think that tracking down every EU citizen in the UK, establishing how long they have lived there, obtaining their biometric details and requiring them to attend a visa interview is a serious proposition.
Even if we ignore the ones that have been here more than seven years and thus instantly qualify, and the ones that can apply to be here under other systems, I would imagine that most of the remainder are law-abiding decent people that will return to their own countries when they have no right to be here. The criminal minority are the only ones that would need to be tracked down.
Are you suggesting that "every EU citizen in the UK" is a criminal sort that will break immigration laws once they no longer have the right to be here?
It would be a lot of work.
Even the link you propose between the ECHR and EU (which, for the time being, I would argue is not quite accurate) is insufficient to answer the point, vis, leaving the EU would still leave us in the ECHR. Moreover even if we left the ECHR, we'd have the HRA, and if we abolished that, there would still be plenty of grounds of challenge that the method adopted for the task at hand was inappropriate.
I was under the impression that notwithstanding the ECHR and the HRA which UKIP proposed to resile from, courts were quite loathed to allows challenges against primarily legislation enacted as part of a government's manifesto commitment.
In a clear example of how perverted our politics is, a constituency with barely any migrants is going to be won by a Party obsessed by immigration with two runner up Parties trying to outdo it on that self same irrelevant subject.
And then the voters will complain their actual issues and problems aren't being dealt with.
You'll find lots of constituencies with no immigration obsessed by immigration. Why? Because they don't want to become a multicultural paradise. People have often come from other parts to leave the multicultural paradise (Essex/East London, Kent/SE London) and want to keep it that way. It's normally called white flight except by the BBC who refuses to recognise it. Multicultural paradises are often happy with immigration as they are peopled by immigrants and the trendy set.
Out of interest, how do you explain the large movements of white Londoners out of London to Essex, Kent and Hertfordshire before there was any mass immigration? Were they anticipating the arrival of brown people? And is it not conceivable that may people leaving London now - including immigrants and their children - may be leveraging house prices to secure much bigger, better homes in much less built-up, more attractive parts of the country?
Do we know when the movement to Essex, Kent and Herts started. How many MPs did they have prewar and after 1945. I suspect most of this growth was started after 1945. Possibly as a response to immigration.
No, actually as a response to London being bombed to pieces, slum clearance and the construction of a number of new towns and the expansion of many others. London's population declined until the 80s, when it started to rise again.
New towns were started in 1948. Coincidentally at the same time as mass immigration started - did people move there from poor areas attracting immigration? How long did it take for Brixton to become significantly non-white. The trendies might not like it but people moved out as they did not want to live next to non-whites.
They moved out because they didn't want to live in shithole slums anymore. Nothing to do with the neighbours.
Next Tory MP to join UKIP market at Lads offers up Mark Pritchard at 6-1.The recent photo with Farage is circulating widely and they seem to make a happy couple.The MP has the usual headbanger profile necessary to be Ukip fodder, and R&S could persuade him to go the way of his old mate Reckless.The Wrekin is probably better territory for a Ukip than R&S.
Possibly, but it seems doubtful given this tweet from Monday:
That will be the post-war slum clearance programs you are thinking of, when they declared large areas as unfit for human habitation and demolished and moved people out of London to better homes. The back to backs of the time were replaced by "modern" high density housing estates which ironically now have a lot of the problems of the original buildings.
Quite. Itajai appears to be imputing his own prejudices to post-war reconstruction. In doing so he reveals a slight lacuna in his knowledge. I recommend reading some of David Kynaston's excellent books on the subject and getting an education.
I don't think the Green Party has yet saved a deposit in a by-election during this Parliament, which possibly suggests that their vote will be one of the most uneven across the country, and that they are unlikely to challenge the Liberal Democrats in national vote share.
Any idea how many candidates the Greens are putting up, and where they're running them? They're taking quite a decent chunk in the national polls, presumably much of it at Lib or Lab's expense, but if the voters get to the ballot booth and find there's no Green on it presumably a lot of it will go back to L[ai]b.
"Even if we ignore the ones that have been here more than seven years and thus instantly qualify, and the ones that can apply to be here under other systems, I would imagine that most of the remainder are law-abiding decent people that will return to their own countries when they have no right to be here. The criminal minority are the only ones that would need to be tracked down.
Are you suggesting that "every EU citizen in the UK" is a criminal sort that will break immigration laws once they no longer have the right to be here? "
These people have moved to the UK under the reasonable expectation(given the laws in force at the time) that their stay would be indefinite and unrestricted. There will have to be multiple exceptions and special cases which will mean ultimately hardly anyone will have to leave, especially when the human impacts of this policy become clear. Forcing someone to leave a country or moving them to a visa regime is a significant inconvenience and imposition for these people which I suspect you have zero personal experience of. It will also impact thousands of British citizens who will be their partners, children, employers and work colleagues.
And you still haven't explained exactly how you will determine who of the millions of EU citizens living in the UK "have the right to be here" and how you will obtain the necessary information. It's a hugely expensive and complicated task that you are blithely ignoring.
Yvette climbs on the Reckless Repatriation Rumpus:"
Interesting that on PB the Tory side is a much more broad church than the Labour one. This occured to me when I read a post by Carlotta and a reply by Itajai. Can they really be happy on the same side of any fence?
Whereas there are few Libs or Labour or Green supporters whose posts make me feel uncomfortable......(Cyclefree isn't Labour or Lib Dem is he/she?)
"“Cameron and Miliband are useless,” one of them says firmly. Will Nigel Farage be better? “Oh no. Nigel doesn’t want to run the country. He just wants to shake things up a bit.” So who would run the country, then? There is a long pause that turns into a silence."
I don't think the Green Party has yet saved a deposit in a by-election during this Parliament, which possibly suggests that their vote will be one of the most uneven across the country, and that they are unlikely to challenge the Liberal Democrats in national vote share.
Any idea how many candidates the Greens are putting up, and where they're running them? They're taking quite a decent chunk in the national polls, presumably much of it at Lib or Lab's expense, but if the voters get to the ballot booth and find there's no Green on it presumably a lot of it will go back to L[ai]b.
At least three quarters of constituencies, according to Natalie Bennett at the Green party conference. That seems to be just in England & Wales though. So about 430 in England & Wales plus whatever they have in Scotland - which might be as few as one, depending on what's agreed with the SNP.
A total of 423 PB regulars and lurkers took part in last weeks competition with the vast majority, 338/85 predicting an UKiP win by an average margin of 10.56%.- How close will the ‘wisdom of the crowd’ be on this occasion?
For the summary/results and a memory recap of how you voted, use the link provided below.
Compliance with the system is likely to be far lower given that these people would have moved to the UK under the reasonable expectation(given the laws in force at the time) that their stay would be indefinite and unrestricted. There will have to be multiple exceptions and special cases which will mean ultimately hardly anyone will have to leave. Being moved to a visa regime is a significant inconvenience and imposition for these people which I suspect you have zero personal experience of. It will also impact thousands of British citizens who will be the partners, children and employers of such people.
And you still haven't explained exactly how you will determine who of the millions of EU citizens living in the UK "have the right to be here" and how you will obtain the necessary information. It's a hugely expensive and complicated task that you are blithely ignoring.
Two paragraphs and you still didn't answer my question directly. You seem to be implying that at least most of the EU immigrants are disreputable people that would break the law of a country they have been guests in. Is that correct?
As for those that don't qualify under the seven years thing, at best we will not get a referendum until 2015, and it'll likely take another two years to negotiate an exit. That would mean that it only covers people who've been here since 2010. Given the UK has had a very public debate about EU membership during this time, people coming here have done so in the full knowledge that the UK's membership and their right to be in the UK might not continue.
In terms of your last paragraph, I expect most of the people to apply for visas, either under the 7-year system or as a skilled worker or family migrant. Most of the rest will be law-abiding people who will return home. The handful that are left can be dealt with under the same situation we deal with illegal non-EU migrants: you wait for people to report them. You can add to that by very heavy fines for employers using illegal migrant labour and stamp out the demand for their work.
"I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well."
Far be it from me to support the ravings of a UKIP candidate but I'd be more impressed with Tory outrage if Cameron hadn't suggested making Muslim citizens of the UK stateless just last week. Much worse than Recklass's comment in my opinion
Given the idiocy of Tory and Labour reactions on this to date, I imagine that is likely.
UKIP should turn this question around to those parties: do they oppose or support the deportation of non-EU migrants who have come to the end of their visas?
Mr. Isam, you're over-egging the cake. A purple victory is now fully expected. Only an unexpectedly large margin would change people's views of how things stand.
Four to five points isn't a huge margin.
[For the record, I was one of those who thought that the blues would win. Right now, it seems unlikely to be the case].
Are UKIP prepared to say just how much the cost of the massive increase in govt bureaucracy that will be needed to issue every EU citizen in the UK with a biometric visa will require (plus dealing with the inevitable legal challenge)? What about the cost to business of having to apply for a Tier 2 visa every time they need to transfer an EU employee into the UK?
Bonus points if you identify which taxes you will raise to pay for it.
Legal challenge to where, if we have just left the EU, we are not bound by the ECJ or the ECHR
Membership of the ECHR has nothing to do with being in the EU. There will be challenges under Article 8 etc.
Incorrect. Membership of the ECHR is required by membership of the EU. We can not leave the convention while we remain a member. Thus they are intrinsically connected.
It astonishes me that UKIP think that tracking down every EU citizen in the UK, establishing how long they have lived there, obtaining their biometric details and requiring them to attend a visa interview is a serious proposition.
Even if we ignore the ones that have been here more than seven years and thus instantly qualify, and the ones that can apply to be here under other systems, I would imagine that most of the remainder are law-abiding decent people that will return to their own countries when they have no right to be here. The criminal minority are the only ones that would need to be tracked down.
Are you suggesting that "every EU citizen in the UK" is a criminal sort that will break immigration laws once they no longer have the right to be here?
It would be a lot of work.
Even the link you propose between the ECHR and EU (which, for the time being, I would argue is not quite accurate) is insufficient to answer the point, vis, leaving the EU would still leave us in the ECHR. Moreover even if we left the ECHR, we'd have the HRA, and if we abolished that, there would still be plenty of grounds of challenge that the method adopted for the task at hand was inappropriate.
I was under the impression that notwithstanding the ECHR and the HRA which UKIP proposed to resile from, courts were quite loathed to allows challenges against primarily legislation enacted as part of a government's manifesto commitment.
That would stretch as far as Britain's exit and the idea of requiring those currently in the UK to seek a new basis for remaining. However the devil is always in the detail: how much time do they have, what steps must they go through, what allowances must be made, what criteria are to be applied, and so forth.
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
It still baffles me that for the years I've been here there hasn't, I think, been a single Scottish Labour chap posting.
Allow me to channel The Watcher for a moment
Okay. Here we go: They're all knuckly-dragging, benefit-dependent alcoholics who, had they ever had a computer, have long-since taken it to cash converters to buy more bucky.
Next Tory MP to join UKIP market at Lads offers up Mark Pritchard at 6-1.The recent photo with Farage is circulating widely and they seem to make a happy couple.The MP has the usual headbanger profile necessary to be Ukip fodder, and R&S could persuade him to go the way of his old mate Reckless.The Wrekin is probably better territory for a Ukip than R&S.
I think that there is a surprisingly good correlation between high hospital death rates and UKIP prospects:
A total of 423 PB regulars and lurkers took part in last weeks competition with the vast majority, 338/85 predicting an UKiP win by an average margin of 10.56%.- How close will the ‘wisdom of the crowd’ be on this occasion?
For the summary/results and a memory recap of how you voted, use the link provided below.
I don't think the Green Party has yet saved a deposit in a by-election during this Parliament, which possibly suggests that their vote will be one of the most uneven across the country, and that they are unlikely to challenge the Liberal Democrats in national vote share.
Any idea how many candidates the Greens are putting up, and where they're running them? They're taking quite a decent chunk in the national polls, presumably much of it at Lib or Lab's expense, but if the voters get to the ballot booth and find there's no Green on it presumably a lot of it will go back to L[ai]b.
At least three quarters of constituencies, according to Natalie Bennett at the Green party conference. That seems to be just in England & Wales though. So about 430 in England & Wales plus whatever they have in Scotland - which might be as few as one, depending on what's agreed with the SNP.
There is also a Green Party of Northern Ireland, who stood four candidates in GE2010.
"I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well."
Far be it from me to support the ravings of a UKIP candidate but I'd be more impressed with Tory outrage if Cameron hadn't suggested making Muslim citizens of the UK stateless just last week. Much worse than Recklass's comment in my opinion
The only 'muslims' Cameron has talked about making stateless are those fighting for ISIS
Personally I don't think you can go and fight for a fanatical Islamic army that beheads people live on tv and then expect to get welcomed back to Blighty but maybe I am old fashioned!!
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
If they are his true colours now I'm guessing they have been his true colours for longer than a couple of months. If he's got fleas now, which dogs has he been lying down with for the last 20 years?
As for those that don't qualify under the seven years thing, at best we will not get a referendum until 2015, and it'll likely take another two years to negotiate an exit. That would mean that it only covers people who've been here since 2010. Given the UK has had a very public debate about EU membership during this time, people coming here have done so in the full knowledge that the UK's membership and their right to be in the UK might not continue.
This is absurd reasoning. Most people who have come here have done so on the faith of the rights granted to them by TFEU articles 20, 21 and 45, which allow them to enter and remain in the United Kingdom for an indefinite period. It is utterly unreasonable that they should have been expected to have taken into account the possibility of a future retrospective change in the law which adversely affects their rights. It is akin to saying that a man should have no objection if he was subjected to capital punishment for murder when the law provided the punishment was life imprisonment because there had been an ongoing debate about the restoration of the death penalty when he committed the crime.
It still baffles me that for the years I've been here there hasn't, I think, been a single Scottish Labour chap posting.
Quite. Disappointing not to have that side of the table covered. And statistically rather improbable when we have Scottish Tories, LDs, etc. etc. and even the odd Ulster Unionist (unless I have them on the wrong end of the ferry route). Does it imply a certain detachment on the part of SLAB?
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
If they are his true colours now I'm guessing they have been his true colours for longer than a couple of months. If he's got fleas now, which dogs has he been lying down with for the last 20 years?
I would say "better out than in" except from what I read Tolhurst is like Reckless only even less articulate.
Never mind deporting the Poles to the east for resettlement. Give me a ticket too!
Hmmm....so we recognise there is a very broad based concern among a very large numer of natives that we have immigration at a speed that the country struggles to assimilate (or not assimilate as the case may sometimes be). We are part of a block that grants unlimited rights of access among its members - thus forcing us to shut up / suck it up or to renegotiate the rules or to leave. Fair enough.
One of our political parties expresses a clear preference for 'Leave' (for a variety of perfectly sensible / honourable reasons of which immigration is only a relatively minor one). Thus far I'm fully onside.
But...that party then needs to articulate the process / mechanisms by which it would effect its policy. If we go then a large number of EU citizens here now (rightfully) will need to have their circumstances clarified. Is the policy against NEW immigration or against existing EU citizens here already? If both, then what are the proposed arrangements for the current crop of EU citizens in the UK?
UKIP simply needs to turn statements of broad intent into statements of detailed policy that we can vote for or not. Otherwise they run the Ed Miliband risk of being reasonably good at pointing the finger at things they don't like but having absolutely no properly thought through answers to any of them.
I take back all the nasty things I've said about the pig dog traitor. I'm glad a man who needs his comments on repatriation clarifying by UKIP high command is no longer in our party.
Is the correct collective noun for a group of Pig-dogs a pack or a herd?
That you cant realise that you are going to lose, and then say "oh we were always going to lose" when you previously said "I think we are going to win"
"I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well."
Far be it from me to support the ravings of a UKIP candidate but I'd be more impressed with Tory outrage if Cameron hadn't suggested making Muslim citizens of the UK stateless just last week. Much worse than Recklass's comment in my opinion
You could argue those "citizens" of the UK have made themselves stateless by beheading innocent people.
When it comes to race relations, I'll no lessons from the Labour party, the party and defenders of Phil Woolas.
It still baffles me that for the years I've been here there hasn't, I think, been a single Scottish Labour chap posting.
Allow me to channel The Watcher for a moment
Okay. Here we go: They're all knuckly-dragging, benefit-dependent alcoholics who, had they ever had a computer, have long-since taken it to cash converters to buy more bucky.
Ok. I'm regretting that post now. Meant to be in jest, but doesn't read well. Apologies to The Watcher, and anyone else offended.
A total of 423 PB regulars and lurkers took part in last weeks competition with the vast majority, 338/85 predicting an UKiP win by an average margin of 10.56%.- How close will the ‘wisdom of the crowd’ be on this occasion?
For the summary/results and a memory recap of how you voted, use the link provided below.
UKIP simply needs to turn statements of broad intent into statements of detailed policy taht we can vote for or not. Otherwise they run the Ed Miliband risk of being reasonably good at pointing the finger at things they don't like but having absolutely no properly thought through answers to any of them.
I don't think it matters. Their role this cycle is as a protest party, their detailed manifesto could say "BAH" for all the voters will care.
Mr. Isam, I changed my mind when the polling indicated a high probability of the UKIP win. I often change my mind based on evidence. I don't think that's particularly odd.
Early thoughts from many were of a Con hold, but for months now a UKIP win has been the consensus view.
As for 'you are going to lose'. I'm not a Conservative. I've posted that quite a few times.
The reaction to the Reckless comments.. what does it show?
To me it shows that supporters of parties, as much as politicians, aren't really interested in anything but power. I would guess from my time on PB that the average poster on here is more articulate and intelligent than the average bear, and so very few people can honestly think that Reckless had some evil intent of mass deportation of happy families... As many have said, it is already the policy that all three recent governing parties use for non EU migrants
But, just so their side might sneak into power on a technicality, politicians are prepared to deliberately misunderstand perfectly reasonable comments and display faux outrage, and the posters on here are no different
Then we have the ghastly justification "that's politics" when that is the opposite of politics
Just as people are pretending that losing Rochester after vowing to throw the kitchen sink at it, isn't a disaster.. we have all the comments on rcord on this very site, along with all the betting tips, and arguments made against pro UKIP betting tips.
What happened to being a gentleman and admitting defeat occasionally, rather than constant cowardly spinning?
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Funny, Kippers went ballistic when I pointed there was evidence they were thick.
I don't get upset, I get amused by the party whose supporters on here, inter alia, have accused me condoning child rape.
Kipper supporters on here, regularly say
1) The EDL are the voice of reason
2) Link tweets from accounts that say "Never trust a fucking stinking Muslim"
No wonder the public thinks UKIP is the most extreme party in the country and their candidates have more racist or offensive views than other political parties?
The Kipper silence on this sort of stuff is great to see.
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
If they are his true colours now I'm guessing they have been his true colours for longer than a couple of months. If he's got fleas now, which dogs has he been lying down with for the last 20 years?
I would say "better out than in" except from what I read Tolhurst is like Reckless only even less articulate.
Never mind deporting the Poles to the east for resettlement. Give me a ticket too!
The remaining dogs get to keep some of the fleas...
UKIP simply needs to turn statements of broad intent into statements of detailed policy that we can vote for or not. Otherwise they run the Ed Miliband risk of being reasonably good at pointing the finger at things they don't like but having absolutely no properly thought through answers to any of them.
Or we could accept the actual position that UKIP is going to get 5-10 MPs, 20 in their wildest dreams when all the stars align, and its not going to form the next government, or in any realistic scenario be a junior partner in one, so the details of its policy on immigration is completely besides the point.
No one asked any of the other minor parties for the details of their policies, most people probably dont have the faintest idea what they are, but because UKIP is making the big parties feel threatened, they blow it all over the papers as an excuse to throw some mud around. If either Dave or Ed were 15 points clear in the polls on a reliable basis, we wouldn't hear anything about UKIP policies, no one would care.
The reaction to the Reckless comments.. what does it show?
To me it shows that supporters of parties, as much as politicians, aren't really interested in anything but power. I would guess from my time on PB that the average poster on here is more articulate and intelligent than the average bear, and so very few people can honestly think that Reckless had some evil intent of mass deportation of happy families... As many have said, it is already the policy that all three recent governing parties use for non EU migrants
But, just so their side might sneak into power on a technicality, politicians are prepared to deliberately misunderstand perfectly reasonable comments and display faux outrage, and the posters on here are no different
Then we have the ghastly justification "that's politics" when that is the opposite of politics
Just as people are pretending that losing Rochester after vowing to throw the kitchen sink at it, isn't a disaster.. we have all the comments on rcord on this very site, along with all the betting tips, and arguments made against pro UKIP betting tips.
What happened to being a gentleman and admitting defeat occasionally, rather than constant cowardly spinning?
Gentlemen,when right, tend to not show off as well (something you tend to do a bit if you are honest )
"The composition of the public and private sectors changes from year to year. For example, whennew jobs are created at the lower end of the earnings distribution, or when highly-paid jobs are lost, this acts to reduce the median.
Looking only at jobs in which the employee had been in post for at least one year (thereby removing the influence of the changes in the composition of the labour market), growth rates are consistently higher. For the public sector, the annual increase inweekly earnings becomes 3.7% (compared with 1.0%) and for the private sector it becomes 4.1% (compared with 0.7%)."
Given the idiocy of Tory and Labour reactions on this to date, I imagine that is likely.
UKIP should turn this question around to those parties: do they oppose or support the deportation of non-EU migrants who have come to the end of their visas?
How long was your earlier explanation please "quite a few years" - is it 10 years?
The story is re EU migrants being sent home isn't it - which is a nice conjunction of UKIPs two policy solutions to everything - leaving the EU and controlling immigration.
Two paragraphs and you still didn't answer my question directly. You seem to be implying that at least most of the EU immigrants are disreputable people that would break the law of a country they have been guests in. Is that correct?
They might comply, or they might not. We have no idea who or where they are!
But wouldn't you say a host inviting guests in to stay for an unlimited period and then suddenly asking them to leave was also pretty "disreputable"?
As for those that don't qualify under the seven years thing, at best we will not get a referendum until 2015, and it'll likely take another two years to negotiate an exit. That would mean that it only covers people who've been here since 2010. Given the UK has had a very public debate about EU membership during this time, people coming here have done so in the full knowledge that the UK's membership and their right to be in the UK might not continue.
Not true - Europe was barely mentioned as an issue by the coalition until the Omnishambles budget in March 2012 and the associated rise of UKIP. In any case, immigration rules are (thankfully) not decided based on "what people are talking about right now"
In terms of your last paragraph, I expect most of the people to apply for visas, either under the 7-year system or as a skilled worker or family migrant. Most of the rest will be law-abiding people who will return home. The handful that are left can be dealt with under the same situation we deal with illegal non-EU migrants: you wait for people to report them. You can add to that by very heavy fines for employers using illegal migrant labour and stamp out the demand for their work.
People can't just suddenly produce paperwork proving they have lived in the country for 7 years when they have had no reason to keep it until now, so it will have to be done through checking land registrty/council tax/NI records (electoral register won't work of course.) The admin costs will be horrendous Then there's all the complicated cases of what you do about someone who has for the last 10 years (say) lived in the UK in the summer and Spain in the winter. A goldmine for immigration lawyers but incredibly expensive for everyone else.
You clearly have no experience of applying for a visa from within the UK. It takes months for visas to be processed by the Home Office, even in simple cases. You are now doubling their workload and asking millions of people to put their lives on hold for several months. Are you going to ask employers to suspend their EU employees for several months whilst their visas are processed?
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Funny, Kippers went ballistic when I pointed their was evidence they were thick.
UKIP simply needs to turn statements of broad intent into statements of detailed policy taht we can vote for or not. Otherwise they run the Ed Miliband risk of being reasonably good at pointing the finger at things they don't like but having absolutely no properly thought through answers to any of them.
I don't think it matters. Their role this cycle is as a protest party, their detailed manifesto could say "BAH" for all the voters will care.
Probably true. But UKIP face a very serious risk: Dave may win the GE and have a referendum in 2017! We saw very clearly from the Scottish fiasco that it is not enough to want to leave. You need a viable alternative spelled out - not some hopeless wishywashy fairytale that a four year old could rip to shreds. The BOO'ers (and that includes me) will lose badly if the mechanism for leaving and the structures that would then come into force are not very thoroughly and sensibly articulated. This is perfectly doable. But if all they have is 'Leave' and then someone asks about their Romanian wife and what happens to her and the only answers is: 'Err...she can stay for five years and then we'll decide'...well BOO would deserve to lose by a landslide. BOO needs very solid and competent project management. Today that is absent. Farage, Carswell, Hannan, etc - they need to learn from Eck's mistakes.
Mr. Isam, I changed my mind when the polling indicated a high probability of the UKIP win. I often change my mind based on evidence. I don't think that's particularly odd.
Early thoughts from many were of a Con hold, but for months now a UKIP win has been the consensus view.
As for 'you are going to lose'. I'm not a Conservative. I've posted that quite a few times.
Oh I wasn't talking about "you" expressly, sorry, but people in general
Even so, I would argue that "changing your mind because of new evidence" is a newspeak way of trying not to say "I was wrong in the first place"
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Funny, Kippers went ballistic when I pointed their was evidence they were thick.
@BBCLouise: Mark Reckless has clarified his comments re sending migrants back saying EU migrants already here should be issued with work permits to stay
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Funny, Kippers went ballistic when I pointed there was evidence they were thick.
I don't get upset, I get amused by the party whose supporters on here, inter alia, have accused me condoning child rape.
Kipper supporters on here, regularly say
1) The EDL are the voice of reason
2) Link tweets from accounts that say "Never trust a fucking stinking Muslim"
No wonder the public thinks UKIP is the most extreme party in the country and their candidates have more racist or offensive views than other political parties?
The Kipper silence on this sort of stuff is great to see.
You can see silence?
One person made the EDL comment once didn't he? How is once "regularly"?
And if they are regularly saying/linking this stuff, how are they being silent?
UKIP simply needs to turn statements of broad intent into statements of detailed policy taht we can vote for or not. Otherwise they run the Ed Miliband risk of being reasonably good at pointing the finger at things they don't like but having absolutely no properly thought through answers to any of them.
I don't think it matters. Their role this cycle is as a protest party, their detailed manifesto could say "BAH" for all the voters will care.
Probably true. But UKIP face a very serious risk: Dave may win the GE and have a referendum in 2017! We saw very clearly from the Scottish fiasco that it is not enough to want to leave. You need a viable alternative spelled out - not some hopeless wishywashy fairytale that a four year old could rip to shreds. The BOO'ers (and that includes me) will lose badly if the mechanism for leaving and the structures that would then come into force are not very thoroughly and sensibly articulated. This is perfectly doable. But if all they have is 'Leave' and then someone asks about their Romanian wife and what happens to her and the only answers is: 'Err...she can stay for five years and then we'll decide'...well BOO would deserve to lose by a landslide. BOO needs very solid and competent project management. Today that is absent. Farage, Carswell, Hannan, etc - they need to learn from Eck's mistakes.
They spend all their efforts attacking Cameron - an admission that a referendum can't be won ?
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Funny, Kippers went ballistic when I pointed there was evidence they were thick.
I don't get upset, I get amused by the party whose supporters on here, inter alia, have accused me condoning child rape.
Kipper supporters on here, regularly say
1) The EDL are the voice of reason
2) Link tweets from accounts that say "Never trust a fucking stinking Muslim"
No wonder the public thinks UKIP is the most extreme party in the country and their candidates have more racist or offensive views than other political parties?
The Kipper silence on this sort of stuff is great to see.
You can see silence?
One person made the EDL comment once didn't he? How is once "regularly"?
And if they are regularly saying/linking this stuff, how are they being silent?
@BBCLouise: Mark Reckless has clarified his comments re sending migrants back saying EU migrants already here should be issued with work permits to stay
so the upshot of his thinking is to have the status quo we do now but with added administration!! ermm great
@BBCNormanS: Its all kicking off in #rochester. Reckless accuses Tories of being "BNP light". Tory candidate accuses him of lieing #ouch
That's the way for the favourite to kill a story.
That's it.
I'm definitely going to go out and knock up the voters in Rochester tomorrow.
Sod going to see the Hunger Games tomorrow.
make sure it's only the Rochester ladies you knock up.
James Kirkup@jameskirkup·5 mins5 minutes ago If Ukip lose Rochester back to the Conservatives in 2015, it will be because of Ukip failure with female voters:
@BBCLouise: Mark Reckless has clarified his comments re sending migrants back saying EU migrants already here should be issued with work permits to stay
How long will it take to assess the dangerous French all over London ?
In my Ladbrokes they wont ring up to ask for a bigger bet, and say all political bets have to go on via the computer slip, ie I cant write a betting slip.. why is this?
The shop is Upminster, if you want to let them know they re allowed to take more than £60 on a 5/6 shot please do
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Funny, Kippers went ballistic when I pointed their was evidence they were thick.
That's a keeper
Gah,
1) It was auto-correct
2) I had already corrected it.
Glad to be of help in preserving it for all eternity!
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Funny, Kippers went ballistic when I pointed there was evidence they were thick.
I don't get upset, I get amused by the party whose supporters on here, inter alia, have accused me condoning child rape.
Kipper supporters on here, regularly say
1) The EDL are the voice of reason
2) Link tweets from accounts that say "Never trust a fucking stinking Muslim"
No wonder the public thinks UKIP is the most extreme party in the country and their candidates have more racist or offensive views than other political parties?
The Kipper silence on this sort of stuff is great to see.
All well and good, but 31% of voters would back Nigel Farage’s party if they believed it could win in their constituency, thats as much as the total Tory VI
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Funny, Kippers went ballistic when I pointed there was evidence they were thick.
I don't get upset, I get amused by the party whose supporters on here, inter alia, have accused me condoning child rape.
Kipper supporters on here, regularly say
1) The EDL are the voice of reason
2) Link tweets from accounts that say "Never trust a fucking stinking Muslim"
No wonder the public thinks UKIP is the most extreme party in the country and their candidates have more racist or offensive views than other political parties?
The Kipper silence on this sort of stuff is great to see.
You can see silence?
One person made the EDL comment once didn't he? How is once "regularly"?
And if they are regularly saying/linking this stuff, how are they being silent?
The silence from the other kippers.
They're too busy clinking glasses in the golf club, and chortling at the comments.
UKIP simply needs to turn statements of broad intent into statements of detailed policy taht we can vote for or not. Otherwise they run the Ed Miliband risk of being reasonably good at pointing the finger at things they don't like but having absolutely no properly thought through answers to any of them.
I don't think it matters. Their role this cycle is as a protest party, their detailed manifesto could say "BAH" for all the voters will care.
Probably true. But UKIP face a very serious risk: Dave may win the GE and have a referendum in 2017! We saw very clearly from the Scottish fiasco that it is not enough to want to leave. You need a viable alternative spelled out - not some hopeless wishywashy fairytale that a four year old could rip to shreds. The BOO'ers (and that includes me) will lose badly if the mechanism for leaving and the structures that would then come into force are not very thoroughly and sensibly articulated. This is perfectly doable. But if all they have is 'Leave' and then someone asks about their Romanian wife and what happens to her and the only answers is: 'Err...she can stay for five years and then we'll decide'...well BOO would deserve to lose by a landslide. BOO needs very solid and competent project management. Today that is absent. Farage, Carswell, Hannan, etc - they need to learn from Eck's mistakes.
They'd be better off making their platform at the time and optimizing for the referendum, rather than being stuck with a bunch of positions they took when their main goal was to win a dozen or two Westminster seats on the east coast.
Morning all and clearly if Reckless wins tomorrow it will be disappointing for we Tories. However will the narrative change very quickly if this is largely due to a collapse in the Labour vote and it going UKIP?
Nice spin but it's a bigger problem for the Cameroons than it is Labour.
In May, the Tories will still be in with a chance of taking R&S, a seat they recently held.
In May, Labour will be nowhere near taking R&S, a seat they recently held.
I believe my posting this RT, we make it 3 vs 1....
Has Carswell been tweeting again this morning about Cameron and Ozzie not being any good at politics?
Lib Dem Press Office retweeted Kevin Maguire@Kevin_Maguire·2 hrs2 hours ago Ukip may "clarify" all it likes but Mark Reckless suggesting immigrants could be repatriated is nasty Far Right politics
@BBCLouise: Mark Reckless has clarified his comments re sending migrants back saying EU migrants already here should be issued with work permits to stay
so the upshot of his thinking is to have the status quo we do now but with added administration!! ermm great
He's not the brightest spark, is he?
Rochester would be better off trying a new MP. They might end up with one with some brains.
Mr. Anorak, that's very interesting indeed. I'd heard that Jordan was Ecclestone's way of sometimes leaking certain inside information ahead of time, and got the impression the two got along fairly well.
Of course, Jordan also ran his own midfield team, which will have a bearing on his view of the current situation.
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Funny, Kippers went ballistic when I pointed their was evidence they were thick.
That's a keeper
Gah,
1) It was auto-correct
2) I had already corrected it.
Glad to be of help in preserving it for all eternity!
Auto-correct is the bane of my life.
I'm still in therapy for one error that went to my Mum over ten years ago
The text should have read
"All being well, I should be coming home tonight"
Unfortunately that's not what was sent.
So my Mum rings me, (and she is of innocent mind) and says
"What does your last text mean, it says "All being, I should be coming GOOD tonight"
You learn the hard way the that "home" often auto-corrects to "good"
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Funny, Kippers went ballistic when I pointed there was evidence they were thick.
I don't get upset, I get amused by the party whose supporters on here, inter alia, have accused me condoning child rape.
Kipper supporters on here, regularly say
1) The EDL are the voice of reason
2) Link tweets from accounts that say "Never trust a fucking stinking Muslim"
No wonder the public thinks UKIP is the most extreme party in the country and their candidates have more racist or offensive views than other political parties?
The Kipper silence on this sort of stuff is great to see.
You can see silence?
One person made the EDL comment once didn't he? How is once "regularly"?
And if they are regularly saying/linking this stuff, how are they being silent?
The silence from the other kippers.
Are you saying that unless a person actively posts that they disagree with something, that they may not have even seen, then they can legitimately be held to agree with it? You are losing the plot, old chap.
The row about Mark Reckless suggesting the repatriation of EU workers will do UKIP no harm at all, depressingly. The public aren't interested in how nasty UKIP are right now. Anything short of Nigel Farage pushing for a Kristallnacht against Muslims will be shrugged off.
They'd be better off making their platform at the time and optimizing for the referendum, rather than being stuck with a bunch of positions they took when their main goal was to win a dozen or two Westminster seats on the east coast.
Indeed.
I don't think Farage wants to be in government, he wants to run a protest party, and ultimately get the UK out of the EU. The problem is none of the main parties support this view so he doesn't have anything to work with, and no one is going to listen to a protest party without an electorate. So they are forced to generate a whole load of policies about things that dont really interest them, so they can try and get some seats, so people will take them seriously about the things that do interest them. If we had a citizen initiated referendum system, as in say California "proposition" system, we could cut through all this crap and just get questions asked that might have popular support, but which for various reasons haven't attracted the support of a major political party.
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Funny, Kippers went ballistic when I pointed there was evidence they were thick.
I don't get upset, I get amused by the party whose supporters on here, inter alia, have accused me condoning child rape.
Kipper supporters on here, regularly say
1) The EDL are the voice of reason
2) Link tweets from accounts that say "Never trust a fucking stinking Muslim"
No wonder the public thinks UKIP is the most extreme party in the country and their candidates have more racist or offensive views than other political parties?
The Kipper silence on this sort of stuff is great to see.
You can see silence?
One person made the EDL comment once didn't he? How is once "regularly"?
And if they are regularly saying/linking this stuff, how are they being silent?
The silence from the other kippers.
Are you saying that unless a person actively posts that they disagree with something, that they may not have even seen, then they can legitimately be held to agree with it? You are losing the plot, old chap.
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Funny, Kippers went ballistic when I pointed their was evidence they were thick.
That's a keeper
Gah,
1) It was auto-correct
2) I had already corrected it.
Glad to be of help in preserving it for all eternity!
Auto-correct is the bane of my life.
I'm still in therapy for one error that went to my Mum over ten years ago
The text should have read
"All being well, I should be coming home tonight"
Unfortunately that's not what was sent.
So my Mum rings me, (and she is of innocent mind) and says
"What does your last text mean, it says "All being, I should be coming GOOD tonight"
You learn the hard way the that "home" often auto-corrects to "good"
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Funny, Kippers went ballistic when I pointed there was evidence they were thick.
I don't get upset, I get amused by the party whose supporters on here, inter alia, have accused me condoning child rape.
Kipper supporters on here, regularly say
1) The EDL are the voice of reason
2) Link tweets from accounts that say "Never trust a fucking stinking Muslim"
No wonder the public thinks UKIP is the most extreme party in the country and their candidates have more racist or offensive views than other political parties?
The Kipper silence on this sort of stuff is great to see.
You can see silence?
One person made the EDL comment once didn't he? How is once "regularly"?
And if they are regularly saying/linking this stuff, how are they being silent?
The silence from the other kippers.
Are you saying that unless a person actively posts that they disagree with something, that they may not have even seen, then they can legitimately be held to agree with it? You are losing the plot, old chap.
That is not my position.
Well, what did you mean with your, "silence" from other Kippers comments?
It still baffles me that for the years I've been here there hasn't, I think, been a single Scottish Labour chap posting.
Quite. Disappointing not to have that side of the table covered. And statistically rather improbable when we have Scottish Tories, LDs, etc. etc. and even the odd Ulster Unionist (unless I have them on the wrong end of the ferry route). Does it imply a certain detachment on the part of SLAB?
Galloway saying someone else should be treated as a leper....
That should bust a few blood vessels...
I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well.
Kippers showing their true colours.
Some of the posters are thick enough to believe these sorts of comparisons. You are just trolling.
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Funny, Kippers went ballistic when I pointed there was evidence they were thick.
I don't get upset, I get amused by the party whose supporters on here, inter alia, have accused me condoning child rape.
Kipper supporters on here, regularly say
1) The EDL are the voice of reason
2) Link tweets from accounts that say "Never trust a fucking stinking Muslim"
No wonder the public thinks UKIP is the most extreme party in the country and their candidates have more racist or offensive views than other political parties?
The Kipper silence on this sort of stuff is great to see.
You can see silence?
One person made the EDL comment once didn't he? How is once "regularly"?
And if they are regularly saying/linking this stuff, how are they being silent?
The silence from the other kippers.
I am not a kipper yet - but getting closer with every post I see on here from Miss Jean Brodie - I think the kippers who do post on here are silent about that sort of thing either because they don't know about it (I didn't, and I am here farly regularly) or because they think that it goes without saying that it is disgusting.
If you want some non-anti-muslim credentials from me, I am a passionate student of classical Arabic, which you can't be without developing some kind of affection for Islam and its (non-deluded) practitioners. All the practice sentences are along the lines of "the preacher in the garden with the book, he is truly the sincere slave of Allah".
Three Conservative MPs are holding ballots about European Union membership that are almost identical to those carried out by two Ukip defectors.
Peter Bone, MP for Wellingborough, Philip Hollobone, of Kettering, and Martin Vickers, of Cleethorpes, are asking constituents whether they want to be in or out of the EU. Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless conducted similar exercises before defecting.
They are all thought to have been advised by anti-EU campaigner Chris Bruni-Lowe, who has long-standing links with Ukip.
Mr Bone said ‘private donors’ were funding his referendum and that his original leaflet was a ‘crib of the one Mark Reckless did’.
All three MPs firmly denied any intention to defect. Mr Bone joked: ‘I haven’t even been invited to lunch [by Ukip].’
Mr Vickers said there was ‘absolutely no way’ that he would switch to Ukip.
But the revelation will heighten Tory jitters ahead of Thursday's Rochester and Strood by-election.
Comments
That should bust a few blood vessels...
Even the Express (UKIP hysteria central) has used the figure of 800,000. How many millions of illegal immigrants do you think there are, and on what basis that goes beyond your fevered imagination?
There are more than six billion different ways of ordering the candidates on the ballot paper, but the people of Rochester and Strood will all use a ballot paper with the candidates in alphabetical order, placing the munitions expert Mr Barker at the top of the ballot paper, just ahead of a second independent, Mr Challis and the Monster Raving Looney Party. Surely it's time to randomise the order of the candidates on the ballot paper?
As far as I can tell, the record number of deposits saved in a by-election is five [ten times]. To break this record three deposits will have to be saved by the Greens, Liberal Democrats and independent candidates or other minor parties.
Ahmed Khan was the most recent independent to save their deposit, at the South Shields by-election in 2013. Other notable saved deposits in by-elections during this Parliament include Imdad Hussain (Peace Party), at Middlesborough, 2012 and at the Rotherham by-election deposits were saved by the candidates for the BNP and Respect.
I don't think the Green Party has yet saved a deposit in a by-election during this Parliament, which possibly suggests that their vote will be one of the most uneven across the country, and that they are unlikely to challenge the Liberal Democrats in national vote share.
Mark Pritchard @MPritchardMP · Nov 17
Good to see Cllr Steve Glover, first UKIP Mayor of Market Drayton, Shropshire - leaving UKIP and re-joining the Conservatives. Welcome home!
That will be the post-war slum clearance programs you are thinking of, when they declared large areas as unfit for human habitation and demolished and moved people out of London to better homes. The back to backs of the time were replaced by "modern" high density housing estates which ironically now have a lot of the problems of the original buildings.
Quite. Itajai appears to be imputing his own prejudices to post-war reconstruction. In doing so he reveals a slight lacuna in his knowledge. I recommend reading some of David Kynaston's excellent books on the subject and getting an education.
Are you suggesting that "every EU citizen in the UK" is a criminal sort that will break immigration laws once they no longer have the right to be here? "
These people have moved to the UK under the reasonable expectation(given the laws in force at the time) that their stay would be indefinite and unrestricted. There will have to be multiple exceptions and special cases which will mean ultimately hardly anyone will have to leave, especially when the human impacts of this policy become clear. Forcing someone to leave a country or moving them to a visa regime is a significant inconvenience and imposition for these people which I suspect you have zero personal experience of. It will also impact thousands of British citizens who will be their partners, children, employers and work colleagues.
And you still haven't explained exactly how you will determine who of the millions of EU citizens living in the UK "have the right to be here" and how you will obtain the necessary information. It's a hugely expensive and complicated task that you are blithely ignoring.
Yvette climbs on the Reckless Repatriation Rumpus:"
Interesting that on PB the Tory side is a much more broad church than the Labour one. This occured to me when I read a post by Carlotta and a reply by Itajai. Can they really be happy on the same side of any fence?
Whereas there are few Libs or Labour or Green supporters whose posts make me feel uncomfortable......(Cyclefree isn't Labour or Lib Dem is he/she?)
It still baffles me that for the years I've been here there hasn't, I think, been a single Scottish Labour chap posting.
Kippers showing their true colours.
"“Cameron and Miliband are useless,” one of them says firmly. Will Nigel Farage be better? “Oh no. Nigel doesn’t want to run the country. He just wants to shake things up a bit.” So who would run the country, then? There is a long pause that turns into a silence."
Sums up the problem with UKIP in a nutshell.
The dog growling rang a few bells too!
As for those that don't qualify under the seven years thing, at best we will not get a referendum until 2015, and it'll likely take another two years to negotiate an exit. That would mean that it only covers people who've been here since 2010. Given the UK has had a very public debate about EU membership during this time, people coming here have done so in the full knowledge that the UK's membership and their right to be in the UK might not continue.
In terms of your last paragraph, I expect most of the people to apply for visas, either under the 7-year system or as a skilled worker or family migrant. Most of the rest will be law-abiding people who will return home. The handful that are left can be dealt with under the same situation we deal with illegal non-EU migrants: you wait for people to report them. You can add to that by very heavy fines for employers using illegal migrant labour and stamp out the demand for their work.
"I expect the BNP to fully condemn Reckless' vile comments as well."
Far be it from me to support the ravings of a UKIP candidate but I'd be more impressed with Tory outrage if Cameron hadn't suggested making Muslim citizens of the UK stateless just last week. Much worse than Recklass's comment in my opinion
UKIP should turn this question around to those parties: do they oppose or support the deportation of non-EU migrants who have come to the end of their visas?
Incidentally, I don't see how you get so upset about other posters asking you to "pick a side" against Islamic extremists when you are accusing them of being racists based on something that you know to be bollocks.
Okay. Here we go: They're all knuckly-dragging, benefit-dependent alcoholics who, had they ever had a computer, have long-since taken it to cash converters to buy more bucky.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15897345
Not causation of course; but is experience of poor NHS care a marker for disenchantment with government generally?
Personally I don't think you can go and fight for a fanatical Islamic army that beheads people live on tv and then expect to get welcomed back to Blighty but maybe I am old fashioned!!
He's totally blind and an expert card trickster.
Never mind deporting the Poles to the east for resettlement. Give me a ticket too!
One of our political parties expresses a clear preference for 'Leave' (for a variety of perfectly sensible / honourable reasons of which immigration is only a relatively minor one). Thus far I'm fully onside.
But...that party then needs to articulate the process / mechanisms by which it would effect its policy. If we go then a large number of EU citizens here now (rightfully) will need to have their circumstances clarified. Is the policy against NEW immigration or against existing EU citizens here already? If both, then what are the proposed arrangements for the current crop of EU citizens in the UK?
UKIP simply needs to turn statements of broad intent into statements of detailed policy that we can vote for or not. Otherwise they run the Ed Miliband risk of being reasonably good at pointing the finger at things they don't like but having absolutely no properly thought through answers to any of them.
When it comes to race relations, I'll no lessons from the Labour party, the party and defenders of Phil Woolas.
Early thoughts from many were of a Con hold, but for months now a UKIP win has been the consensus view.
As for 'you are going to lose'. I'm not a Conservative. I've posted that quite a few times.
To me it shows that supporters of parties, as much as politicians, aren't really interested in anything but power. I would guess from my time on PB that the average poster on here is more articulate and intelligent than the average bear, and so very few people can honestly think that Reckless had some evil intent of mass deportation of happy families... As many have said, it is already the policy that all three recent governing parties use for non EU migrants
But, just so their side might sneak into power on a technicality, politicians are prepared to deliberately misunderstand perfectly reasonable comments and display faux outrage, and the posters on here are no different
Then we have the ghastly justification "that's politics" when that is the opposite of politics
Just as people are pretending that losing Rochester after vowing to throw the kitchen sink at it, isn't a disaster.. we have all the comments on rcord on this very site, along with all the betting tips, and arguments made against pro UKIP betting tips.
What happened to being a gentleman and admitting defeat occasionally, rather than constant cowardly spinning?
I don't get upset, I get amused by the party whose supporters on here, inter alia, have accused me condoning child rape.
Kipper supporters on here, regularly say
1) The EDL are the voice of reason
2) Link tweets from accounts that say "Never trust a fucking stinking Muslim"
No wonder the public thinks UKIP is the most extreme party in the country and their candidates have more racist or offensive views than other political parties?
The Kipper silence on this sort of stuff is great to see.
No one asked any of the other minor parties for the details of their policies, most people probably dont have the faintest idea what they are, but because UKIP is making the big parties feel threatened, they blow it all over the papers as an excuse to throw some mud around. If either Dave or Ed were 15 points clear in the polls on a reliable basis, we wouldn't hear anything about UKIP policies, no one would care.
I'm definitely going to go out and knock up the voters in Rochester tomorrow.
Sod going to see the Hunger Games tomorrow.
"The composition of the public and private sectors changes from year to year. For example, whennew jobs are created at the lower end of the earnings distribution, or when highly-paid jobs are lost, this acts to reduce the median.
Looking only at jobs in which the employee had been in post for at least one year (thereby removing the influence of the changes in the composition of the labour market), growth rates are consistently higher. For the public sector, the annual increase inweekly earnings becomes 3.7% (compared with 1.0%) and for the private sector it becomes 4.1% (compared with 0.7%)."
http://politicalbookie.com/2014/11/19/how-to-get-a-15000-bet-on-politics/
The story is re EU migrants being sent home isn't it - which is a nice conjunction of UKIPs two policy solutions to everything - leaving the EU and controlling immigration.
But wouldn't you say a host inviting guests in to stay for an unlimited period and then suddenly asking them to leave was also pretty "disreputable"? Not true - Europe was barely mentioned as an issue by the coalition until the Omnishambles budget in March 2012 and the associated rise of UKIP. In any case, immigration rules are (thankfully) not decided based on "what people are talking about right now" People can't just suddenly produce paperwork proving they have lived in the country for 7 years when they have had no reason to keep it until now, so it will have to be done through checking land registrty/council tax/NI records (electoral register won't work of course.) The admin costs will be horrendous Then there's all the complicated cases of what you do about someone who has for the last 10 years (say) lived in the UK in the summer and Spain in the winter. A goldmine for immigration lawyers but incredibly expensive for everyone else.
You clearly have no experience of applying for a visa from within the UK. It takes months for visas to be processed by the Home Office, even in simple cases. You are now doubling their workload and asking millions of people to put their lives on hold for several months. Are you going to ask employers to suspend their EU employees for several months whilst their visas are processed?
@George_Osborne: ONS data shows pay rising 4.1% for those in a job for more than a year, further evidence #longtermeconomicplan working but more to do
Even so, I would argue that "changing your mind because of new evidence" is a newspeak way of trying not to say "I was wrong in the first place"
1) It was auto-correct
2) I had already corrected it.
One person made the EDL comment once didn't he? How is once "regularly"?
And if they are regularly saying/linking this stuff, how are they being silent?
James Kirkup@jameskirkup·5 mins5 minutes ago
If Ukip lose Rochester back to the Conservatives in 2015, it will be because of Ukip failure with female voters:
'It is out of control. Nobody knows whether he means what he says or even knows what he is saying.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2840055/Bernie-Ecclestone-stand-Formula-One-s-ruler-says-Eddie-Jordan.html
The shop is Upminster, if you want to let them know they re allowed to take more than £60 on a 5/6 shot please do
http://www.populus.co.uk/item/When-voters-say-all-parties-are-the-same-theyre-just-complaining-that-other-voters-aren’t-sufficiently-like-them-/
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/25/nearly-third-of-voters-prepared-to-support-ukip
In May, Labour will be nowhere near taking R&S, a seat they recently held.
For whom has UKIP caused the bigger problem?
Has Carswell been tweeting again this morning about Cameron and Ozzie not being any good at politics?
Lib Dem Press Office retweeted
Kevin Maguire@Kevin_Maguire·2 hrs2 hours ago
Ukip may "clarify" all it likes but Mark Reckless suggesting immigrants could be repatriated is nasty Far Right politics
Why not campaign for Ukip as this seems to be all about immigration.
After all, why vote for the puppets (Labour and Tory) when you can vote for the puppeteer?
Rochester would be better off trying a new MP. They might end up with one with some brains.
Of course, Jordan also ran his own midfield team, which will have a bearing on his view of the current situation.
I'm still in therapy for one error that went to my Mum over ten years ago
The text should have read
"All being well, I should be coming home tonight"
Unfortunately that's not what was sent.
So my Mum rings me, (and she is of innocent mind) and says
"What does your last text mean, it says "All being, I should be coming GOOD tonight"
You learn the hard way the that "home" often auto-corrects to "good"
I don't think Farage wants to be in government, he wants to run a protest party, and ultimately get the UK out of the EU. The problem is none of the main parties support this view so he doesn't have anything to work with, and no one is going to listen to a protest party without an electorate. So they are forced to generate a whole load of policies about things that dont really interest them, so they can try and get some seats, so people will take them seriously about the things that do interest them. If we had a citizen initiated referendum system, as in say California "proposition" system, we could cut through all this crap and just get questions asked that might have popular support, but which for various reasons haven't attracted the support of a major political party.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2zJ4qiIYAEM2Lh.jpg
It appears the choice is not as narrow as decency should allow ....
Ukip's Mark Reckless jeered for suggesting EU migrants could be deported after a 'fixed period'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2840189/Ukip-candidate-jeered-hinting-EU-arrivals-repatriated.html
If you want some non-anti-muslim credentials from me, I am a passionate student of classical Arabic, which you can't be without developing some kind of affection for Islam and its (non-deluded) practitioners. All the practice sentences are along the lines of "the preacher in the garden with the book, he is truly the sincere slave of Allah".
Three Conservative MPs are holding ballots about European Union membership that are almost identical to those carried out by two Ukip defectors.
Peter Bone, MP for Wellingborough, Philip Hollobone, of Kettering, and Martin Vickers, of Cleethorpes, are asking constituents whether they want to be in or out of the EU. Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless conducted similar exercises before defecting.
They are all thought to have been advised by anti-EU campaigner Chris Bruni-Lowe, who has long-standing links with Ukip.
Mr Bone said ‘private donors’ were funding his referendum and that his original leaflet was a ‘crib of the one Mark Reckless did’.
All three MPs firmly denied any intention to defect. Mr Bone joked: ‘I haven’t even been invited to lunch [by Ukip].’
Mr Vickers said there was ‘absolutely no way’ that he would switch to Ukip.
But the revelation will heighten Tory jitters ahead of Thursday's Rochester and Strood by-election.