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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    The legacy of the interview will be:

    a) "You can't just point at things and tax them"; and
    b) the nastiness that is emerging towards Mylene Klass
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    President Romney, Independent Scotland - yep you could be wrong!
  • Which reminds me, as I'm going to be in London on Friday and Saturday, at some point I hope to change at Baker Street

    Change at Baker Street? Into what costume?

    :)
  • felix said:

    It's a sad day when a minor celebrity can get the entire Labour machine in overdrive to dish her!

    SaveED!

    Labour need to be careful though. The last time they went ad hominem Nick Clegg garnered a fair bit of sympathy.
    I'd be more careful if I were hitching my wagon to Ms Klass - she's got a bit of form for saying slightly dim, publicity seeking things that can be demonstrated to be false, her regular Walter Mitty-esque adventures that seemed just a little too perfect tabloid fodder were rather a cause celebre for Marina Hyde for a while.

    Although yes, going out and attacking her constantly is a little unedifying, although it was initially excitable right-wingers who predictably were looking for something to call Ed Miliband an idiot over, who highlighted it before the equally predictable backlash and Twitterstorm.

    Probably best for Lab to let Mylene have her day in the sun to promote her new baby range, and move the debate on to the facts surrounding and principles which underpin the idea of a mansion tax than going after a celebrity who has in a sense already 'won' - she's got the column inches and publicity, will have thinkpieces defending and attacking her and has kept her name out there as someone for TV producers and hacks to give a call.

  • Plato said:

    And Maureen Lipman amongst others. As a set, they're very noticeable. I think they're no more worthy than AN Other, but they grab attention. It does play into the wider vote market.

    OT May I recommend Bastille for pop music. Their album Bad Blood has some super songs on it even their singer has a peculiar pitch. Things We Lost In The Firehttps://youtube.com/watch?v=MGR4U7W1dZU

    Patrick said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Thanks for that Mr Indigo; quite honestly I was more impressed by Ed that I was by her. I thought she was just being shrewish.

    Labour seems to be taking fire from luvvies & the media - who were onside during the time of St Tony. How the fuck did the Labour party end up in this position ?!
    So they've thoroughly alienated their conservative (small c) WWC traditional voters with Islington 'this is what a feminist looks like' bollocks and open-door immigration. They've alienated their Scottish heartlands by being, err, anti-Scotland. They've alienated the Blairite / sensible wing by veering left. And thus became a party with only two constituencies - luvvies and dinosaurs. Klass is one of the luvvies and they ain't happy. Mansion Tax was always going to make rich London lefty luvvies have a cow. And that leaves - Ta Da - the unions. All Ed now has to do is piss them off and he can call Bingo.
    Depeche Mode's live album "Live in Berlin" out this week!
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30100918

    As you can imagine, twitter is full of left-wingers denouncing this horrendous act.. oh wait they haven't finished with Mylene Klass yet.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    felix said:

    It's a sad day when a minor celebrity can get the entire Labour machine in overdrive to dish her!

    SaveED!

    Labour need to be careful though. The last time they went ad hominem Nick Clegg garnered a fair bit of sympathy.
    I'd be more careful if I were hitching my wagon to Ms Klass - she's got a bit of form for saying slightly dim, publicity seeking things that can be demonstrated to be false, her regular Walter Mitty-esque adventures that seemed just a little too perfect tabloid fodder were rather a cause celebre for Marina Hyde for a while.

    Although yes, going out and attacking her constantly is a little unedifying, although it was initially excitable right-wingers who predictably were looking for something to call Ed Miliband an idiot over, who highlighted it before the equally predictable backlash and Twitterstorm.

    Probably best for Lab to let Mylene have her day in the sun to promote her new baby range, and move the debate on to the facts surrounding and principles which underpin the idea of a mansion tax than going after a celebrity who has in a sense already 'won' - she's got the column inches and publicity, will have thinkpieces defending and attacking her and has kept her name out there as someone for TV producers and hacks to give a call.
    She's really irritated you, hasn't she. I can't remember a more patronising and passive-aggressive comment.
  • Which reminds me, as I'm going to be in London on Friday and Saturday, at some point I hope to change at Baker Street

    Change at Baker Street? Into what costume?

    :)
    Into my red shoes.

    Is Baker Street the only station on the London Underground where it is possible to change from the Pink Line ( Hammersmith & City ) to the Brown Line (Bakerloo)?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    edited November 2014

    Which reminds me, as I'm going to be in London on Friday and Saturday, at some point I hope to change at Baker Street

    Change at Baker Street? Into what costume?

    :)
    Into my red shoes.

    Is Baker Street the only station on the London Underground where it is possible to change from the Pink Line ( Hammersmith & City ) to the Brown Line (Bakerloo)?
    I have no idea what you mean

    **Innocent Face**

    Theorectically there's also Paddington, but as the H & C platforms 15 and 16 are structurally part of the main line Brunel station, you have to walk via that to get to the "proper" Tube station at Paddington.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    Anorak said:

    felix said:

    It's a sad day when a minor celebrity can get the entire Labour machine in overdrive to dish her!

    SaveED!

    Labour need to be careful though. The last time they went ad hominem Nick Clegg garnered a fair bit of sympathy.
    I'd be more careful if I were hitching my wagon to Ms Klass - she's got a bit of form for saying slightly dim, publicity seeking things that can be demonstrated to be false, her regular Walter Mitty-esque adventures that seemed just a little too perfect tabloid fodder were rather a cause celebre for Marina Hyde for a while.

    Although yes, going out and attacking her constantly is a little unedifying, although it was initially excitable right-wingers who predictably were looking for something to call Ed Miliband an idiot over, who highlighted it before the equally predictable backlash and Twitterstorm.

    Probably best for Lab to let Mylene have her day in the sun to promote her new baby range, and move the debate on to the facts surrounding and principles which underpin the idea of a mansion tax than going after a celebrity who has in a sense already 'won' - she's got the column inches and publicity, will have thinkpieces defending and attacking her and has kept her name out there as someone for TV producers and hacks to give a call.
    She's really irritated you, hasn't she. I can't remember a more patronising and passive-aggressive comment.
    It's really funny - they all want to do a surbiton and call her a rich b1tch but they know that's not allowed so they try to get away with calling her a bit dim:)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Just seen the Ken Livingstone nonsense on Daily Politics.. what a contemptible man he is
  • Are there fewer likely lab voters than in 2013? If so, then the gain is less than it looks, if existent. If for example, the percentage of likely lab voters was 38 in 2013 and 33 in 2014, then, according to this poll, the overall percentages of voters who are likely lab voters and who say that milliband's leadership is a reason to vote labour has gone down from 15.96 percent to 15.18 percent
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    isam said:

    Just seen the Ken Livingstone nonsense on Daily Politics.. what a contemptible man he is

    We should have a whip-round and buy him a one-way ticket to Venezuela.
  • Which reminds me, as I'm going to be in London on Friday and Saturday, at some point I hope to change at Baker Street

    Change at Baker Street? Into what costume?

    :)
    Into my red shoes.

    Is Baker Street the only station on the London Underground where it is possible to change from the Pink Line ( Hammersmith & City ) to the Brown Line (Bakerloo)?
    I have no idea what you mean

    **Innocent Face**

    Theorectically there's also Paddington, but as the H & C platforms 15 and 16 are structurally part of the main line Brunel station, you have to walk via that to get to the "proper" Tube station at Paddington.
    That doesn't count.
  • felix said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30100918

    As you can imagine, twitter is full of left-wingers denouncing this horrendous act.. oh wait they haven't finished with Mylene Klass yet.

    If Myleene were a poor WWC single mum from a Northern sink estate, this whole saga would have been a tad different.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @CarlPackman: Oh this Metro poll, good God http://t.co/zozXTzBV3K
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    isam said:

    Just seen the Ken Livingstone nonsense on Daily Politics.. what a contemptible man he is

    What did he do/say?
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    TOPPING said:

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    The legacy of the interview will be:

    a) "You can't just point at things and tax them"; and
    b) the nastiness that is emerging towards Mylene Klass
    a) Just smacks of special pleading

    b) Tory Beliebers. Don't diss their favourite pop stars or heaven help you.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    SLAb leadership election:

    Here's the full supporting nominations list:

    http://labourlist.org/2014/11/supporting-nominations-for-scottish-labour-leader-close-and-the-hustings-begin/

    Murphy with a massive lead in councilors and CLPs
  • Which reminds me, as I'm going to be in London on Friday and Saturday, at some point I hope to change at Baker Street

    Change at Baker Street? Into what costume?

    :)
    Into my red shoes.

    Is Baker Street the only station on the London Underground where it is possible to change from the Pink Line ( Hammersmith & City ) to the Brown Line (Bakerloo)?
    I have no idea what you mean

    **Innocent Face**

    Theorectically there's also Paddington, but as the H & C platforms 15 and 16 are structurally part of the main line Brunel station, you have to walk via that to get to the "proper" Tube station at Paddington.
    That doesn't count.
    Still, it's not as bad as Edgware Road. Here, the H & C and Bakerloo stations are completely and utterly separate, you have to cross the busy A40 Westway to get from one to the other.
  • TOPPING said:

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    The legacy of the interview will be:

    a) "You can't just point at things and tax them"; and
    b) the nastiness that is emerging towards Mylene Klass
    Of course you can just point at things and tax them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbQiVQuiu04 Nothig new in that ;-)
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    BenM said:

    TOPPING said:

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    The legacy of the interview will be:

    a) "You can't just point at things and tax them"; and
    b) the nastiness that is emerging towards Mylene Klass
    a) Just smacks of special pleading

    b) Tory Beliebers. Don't diss their favourite pop stars or heaven help you.
    Lot of Beliebers voting in that Metro poll. 94% backing Myleene over Ed.
  • Anorak said:

    BenM said:

    TOPPING said:

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    The legacy of the interview will be:

    a) "You can't just point at things and tax them"; and
    b) the nastiness that is emerging towards Mylene Klass
    a) Just smacks of special pleading

    b) Tory Beliebers. Don't diss their favourite pop stars or heaven help you.
    Lot of Beliebers voting in that Metro poll. 94% backing Myleene over Ed.
    A positive aspect of Filipino immigration :)
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited November 2014

    Anorak said:

    BenM said:

    TOPPING said:

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    The legacy of the interview will be:

    a) "You can't just point at things and tax them"; and
    b) the nastiness that is emerging towards Mylene Klass
    a) Just smacks of special pleading

    b) Tory Beliebers. Don't diss their favourite pop stars or heaven help you.
    Lot of Beliebers voting in that Metro poll. 94% backing Myleene over Ed.
    A positive aspect of Filipino immigration :)
    People always vote for a candidate if they're from the same ethnic background as them. As a UKIP voter of Indian(?) ethnicity, you'll be very familiar with that...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited November 2014
    @MattChorley: EXCLUSIVE: Labour to ban jobless EU migrants from claiming benefits for TWO YEARS under plan to curb welfare tourism http://t.co/1Db9QRd4f1

    @DPJHodges: Less than a week after Ed Miliband pledged not to "out Ukip, Ukip" he's gone into anti-immigrant, Ukip overdrive. http://t.co/xnevnaoPBw
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    Scott_P said:

    @MattChorley: EXCLUSIVE: Labour to ban jobless EU migrants from claiming benefits for TWO YEARS under plan to curb welfare tourism http://t.co/1Db9QRd4f1

    Is that legal under EU law? Wouldn't they have to do the same for the unemployed in the UK?

  • Woman worth an estimated 11 million pounds doesn't support a mansion tax shocker !
    Only on PB.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    What I want to know is when some smart journo will find a benefit claimant / housing benefit user living in a house subject to the Mansion Tax.
  • Anorak said:

    BenM said:

    TOPPING said:

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    The legacy of the interview will be:

    a) "You can't just point at things and tax them"; and
    b) the nastiness that is emerging towards Mylene Klass
    a) Just smacks of special pleading

    b) Tory Beliebers. Don't diss their favourite pop stars or heaven help you.
    Lot of Beliebers voting in that Metro poll. 94% backing Myleene over Ed.
    Voodoo Poll Red Alert !!
  • Which reminds me, as I'm going to be in London on Friday and Saturday, at some point I hope to change at Baker Street

    Change at Baker Street? Into what costume?

    :)
    Into my red shoes.

    Is Baker Street the only station on the London Underground where it is possible to change from the Pink Line ( Hammersmith & City ) to the Brown Line (Bakerloo)?
    Is that as rude as I think it is or is it just that I have been ruined by the internet?
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Patrick said:

    Which reminds me, as I'm going to be in London on Friday and Saturday, at some point I hope to change at Baker Street

    Change at Baker Street? Into what costume?

    :)
    Into my red shoes.

    Is Baker Street the only station on the London Underground where it is possible to change from the Pink Line ( Hammersmith & City ) to the Brown Line (Bakerloo)?
    Is that as rude as I think it is or is it just that I have been ruined by the internet?
    Yes to both
  • Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MattChorley: EXCLUSIVE: Labour to ban jobless EU migrants from claiming benefits for TWO YEARS under plan to curb welfare tourism http://t.co/1Db9QRd4f1

    Is that legal under EU law? Wouldn't they have to do the same for the unemployed in the UK?

    No - the ECJ just recently expressly OK'ed it.

    What it means is that EU countries cannot on any (non-terrorist) grounds stop an EU citizen from physically arriving. But they can block access to the welfare system. It's not immigration 'control' so much as immigration deterrence.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    edited November 2014

    Woman worth an estimated 11 million pounds doesn't support a mansion tax shocker !

    Woman whom the entire Left has come together to disparage and patronise demolishes Ed while setting up an enduring meme exposing Lab's ludicrousness.

    Non shocker.
  • Patrick said:

    Which reminds me, as I'm going to be in London on Friday and Saturday, at some point I hope to change at Baker Street

    Change at Baker Street? Into what costume?

    :)
    Into my red shoes.

    Is Baker Street the only station on the London Underground where it is possible to change from the Pink Line ( Hammersmith & City ) to the Brown Line (Bakerloo)?
    Is that as rude as I think it is or is it just that I have been ruined by the internet?
    It is a well known sexual innuendo.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Woman worth an estimated 11 million pounds doesn't support a mansion tax shocker !
    Only on PB.

    Working single Mum critical of Tax policy suggested by millionaire politician who tried not to pay IHT...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    BenM said:

    Indigo said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Labour's reply to Myleene Klass.

    "Labour's mansion tax will help to fund our NHS for the future."

    http://www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/six-things-you-need-to-know-about-labours-mansion-tax


    Labour's mansion tax will protect those who are asset-rich but cash-poor. People in high-value homes who do not have high incomes – those who do not pay the higher or top rate of tax, and earn less than £42,000 a year – will have the right to defer the mansion tax until their property changes hands.


    Which will be their excuse to get it extended below £2m.

    So we currently have Stamp Duty, Council Tax, and IHT.

    And Labour want to add another property tax, instead of dealing with the fundamental problems in the NHS.

    "You can't just point at things and tax them". If only.

    Its worse than that, imagine a couple in their early 70s, on a pension, so can't afford the tax, so it rolls up every year. They live another 15 years. When they die their estate gets hit for 45k possibly plus interest, after IHT. Its a death tax by the back door.
    Oh boo hoo.
    Imagine that they need to go into a nursing home, have to sell the house to pay for the fees and find they now have significantly less to pay for those fees because of this tax. Just try and imagine the worry that this will cause to elderly, frail, sick people.

    Labour likes to present itself as the caring party. It emotes over disabled people hurt by the bedroom tax but then treats with contempt an elderly couple worried about how a tax is going to affect their home and their source of funds to help look after them. Are they not worth your care?

    Or can we say "oh boo hoo" to the disabled because we need to raise the money and too bad if they can't have a spare room?

    Either argue that taxes are needed and everyone will have to pay or try and understand that all of us have worries and dismissing people's worries just because they're not your favourite people is an unpleasant trait, which does no credit to a party which claims to be nicer than everyone else and routinely disses its opponents as uncaring and unfeeling.

  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    I do so hope that we will be hearing soon from Joan Bakewell, Labour Peer and Patron Saint of the Luvvies.

    When the Mansion tax was a LibDem policy, she was outraged.

    "I am all for taxing the rich more. I believe the less well-off are carrying too much of the burden of current austerity. But there’s just one unintended consequence of this tax which could throw me off balance: I may have to sell my house."

    In Joan's world, someone living in a 4 million pound mansion in Primrose Hill is not rich. And by taxing the rich, she more means taxing other people still richer than herself.

    Now it is Labour Party policy, Joan must be quite conflicted. Still, I expect she will pull through.

    I'll be saving my pity for some poor 2 million pound householders.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Anorak said:

    BenM said:

    TOPPING said:

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    The legacy of the interview will be:

    a) "You can't just point at things and tax them"; and
    b) the nastiness that is emerging towards Mylene Klass
    a) Just smacks of special pleading

    b) Tory Beliebers. Don't diss their favourite pop stars or heaven help you.
    Lot of Beliebers voting in that Metro poll. 94% backing Myleene over Ed.
    Do 94% know who she is ?
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited November 2014

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    Yup. Even on the Daily Mail site, some of the top-rated comments are criticising Myleene.

    PBTories don't want to see it, but in the real world, people are sick and tired of the super-rich acting like such spoilt brats, spitting their dummies out when they're asked to make a fraction of the sacrificies that the rest of us have had to make.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,407
    Danny565 said:

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    Yup. Even on the Daily Mail site, some of the top-rated comments are criticising Myleene.

    PBTories don't want to see it, but in the real world, people are sick and tired of the super-rich acting like such spoilt brats, spitting their dummies out when they're asked to make a fraction of the sacrificies that the rest of us have had to make.
    Someone needs to do a fact check on precisely how many "little grannies" will be affected by this tax. That after all IS Mylene's concern.
  • Ed has put in a subtle Hear'say song title into one of his tweets.

    I think I like Ed even more now.

    @Ed_Miliband: Here’s why our NHS needs a mansion tax. It’s Pure and Simple. http://t.co/ol6eRj5aAW
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    Patrick said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MattChorley: EXCLUSIVE: Labour to ban jobless EU migrants from claiming benefits for TWO YEARS under plan to curb welfare tourism http://t.co/1Db9QRd4f1

    Is that legal under EU law? Wouldn't they have to do the same for the unemployed in the UK?

    No - the ECJ just recently expressly OK'ed it.

    What it means is that EU countries cannot on any (non-terrorist) grounds stop an EU citizen from physically arriving. But they can block access to the welfare system. It's not immigration 'control' so much as immigration deterrence.
    I'm not sure that's the case. As I understand it, the recent case said that the German benefit being sought was only paid to those seeking work and that as the applicant was not seeking work she could not get it. But if you have a benefit for which an EU immigrant - were he / she British - would be eligible, I don't think you can deny it to the EU citizen purely on grounds of their nationality.



  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Patrick said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MattChorley: EXCLUSIVE: Labour to ban jobless EU migrants from claiming benefits for TWO YEARS under plan to curb welfare tourism http://t.co/1Db9QRd4f1

    Is that legal under EU law? Wouldn't they have to do the same for the unemployed in the UK?

    No - the ECJ just recently expressly OK'ed it.

    What it means is that EU countries cannot on any (non-terrorist) grounds stop an EU citizen from physically arriving. But they can block access to the welfare system. It's not immigration 'control' so much as immigration deterrence.
    The ECJ ruling didn't apply to WFTC and a lot of in-work benefits through the tax system, so selling two Big Issues and claiming £550/wk is still on. I dont think Ed can stop that for two years, so he might be being economical with actualité, surely not.

    Did I just notice a few sockpuppets pop up after the Ed's got Klass issue ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,407
    edited November 2014
    Btw What is the current tax on £2m homes, my £100k one attracts around £1.1k p.a. so that's 1.1% on the council tax...

    I'd assume £2m should be around £20k p.a. ?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited November 2014
    Patrick said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MattChorley: EXCLUSIVE: Labour to ban jobless EU migrants from claiming benefits for TWO YEARS under plan to curb welfare tourism http://t.co/1Db9QRd4f1

    Is that legal under EU law? Wouldn't they have to do the same for the unemployed in the UK?

    No - the ECJ just recently expressly OK'ed it.

    What it means is that EU countries cannot on any (non-terrorist) grounds stop an EU citizen from physically arriving. But they can block access to the welfare system. It's not immigration 'control' so much as immigration deterrence.
    IIUC the decision is a bit narrower than that - the court said that:
    "A member state must ... have the possibility of refusing to grant social benefits to economically inactive union citizens who exercise their right to freedom of movement solely in order to obtain another member state's social assistance"

    http://www.dw.de/european-court-germany-can-deny-benefits-to-jobless-eu-immigrants/a-18056000
    So it's not obvious that it applies to people who are looking for work, as opposed to the classic tabloid "benefit tourist", which probably doesn't exist on the scale they make out, and even if it did may be difficult to prove in individual cases.

    We'd have to see the exact wording of what Labour are saying. They may be proposing something legal but not hugely consequential, which is getting spun as something bigger than it really is. Or they may be doing the Cameron thing of proposing something that's currently illegal and affecting to believe they're going to persuade the rest of the EU to go along with it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    edited November 2014
    philiph said:

    What I want to know is when some smart journo will find a benefit claimant / housing benefit user living in a house subject to the Mansion Tax.

    Well, we have MPs who will be able to claim their Mansion Tax back from us - the taxpayer.

    Perhaps some enterprising journalist can find all the MPs in London living in such houses and add up the amount of tax we will have to pay for them.

  • Patrick said:

    Which reminds me, as I'm going to be in London on Friday and Saturday, at some point I hope to change at Baker Street

    Change at Baker Street? Into what costume?

    :)
    Into my red shoes.

    Is Baker Street the only station on the London Underground where it is possible to change from the Pink Line ( Hammersmith & City ) to the Brown Line (Bakerloo)?
    Is that as rude as I think it is or is it just that I have been ruined by the internet?
    It is a well known sexual innuendo.
    OKeydokey! (So I am dirty minded but also not as up-to-date on smut as I thought I was. Shit I know every entry in the Profanisaurus by heart - they missed one!)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Danny565 said:

    in the real world, people are sick and tired of the super-rich acting like such spoilt brats, spitting their dummies out when they're asked to make a fraction of the sacrificies that the rest of us have had to make.

    People like Ed you mean...
  • An outstanding piece of detailed analysis of the Scottish Labour constituencies by Stephen Bush:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/11238028/Labour-faces-slaughter-in-Scotland.html

    This is essential reading for anyone betting on Scottish constituencies. He's actually been rather kind to Labour.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Danny565 said:

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    Yup. Even on the Daily Mail site, some of the top-rated comments are criticising Myleene.

    PBTories don't want to see it, but in the real world, people are sick and tired of the super-rich acting like such spoilt brats, spitting their dummies out when they're asked to make a fraction of the sacrificies that the rest of us have had to make.
    Then why didn't Ed make that point? Or was he "not allowed to"?

    As a true-blue Tory I don't have a huge problem with a mansion tax or a souped up set of council tax bands. If you are living in a £2m house then you are rich. Whatever the details.

    But the enduring point here is the utter, utter uselessness of Ed.

    And we all know why. He is not able to think on his feet, or engage like a human being. He is terrified of how his responses "will play" and of "getting it wrong", whether by offending her fans and "everyman" or being seen as patronising her.

    This is the bread and butter of politicians' lives and he should have handled it.

    But he is in being done to mode not doing mode and as such is always vulnerable to being hi-jacked. As he was so exquisitely here.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Do 94% know who she is ?

    do the other 6% know who ed miliband is?
  • Patrick said:

    Patrick said:

    Which reminds me, as I'm going to be in London on Friday and Saturday, at some point I hope to change at Baker Street

    Change at Baker Street? Into what costume?

    :)
    Into my red shoes.

    Is Baker Street the only station on the London Underground where it is possible to change from the Pink Line ( Hammersmith & City ) to the Brown Line (Bakerloo)?
    Is that as rude as I think it is or is it just that I have been ruined by the internet?
    It is a well known sexual innuendo.
    OKeydokey! (So I am dirty minded but also not as up-to-date on smut as I thought I was. Shit I know every entry in the Profanisaurus by heart - they missed one!)
    Here it is.

    The best place on the interweb for up to date innuendo and sayings

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=change at Baker Street
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Ed's London Tax.

    Another strategic master stroke.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    Danny565 said:

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    Yup. Even on the Daily Mail site, some of the top-rated comments are criticising Myleene.

    PBTories don't want to see it, but in the real world, people are sick and tired of the super-rich acting like such spoilt brats, spitting their dummies out when they're asked to make a fraction of the sacrificies that the rest of us have had to make.
    Quite. I hope Ed will announce that he will expressly make it law that any MPs living in houses above the mansion tax threshold will be forbidden from claiming it back on expenses.

    It wouldn't do, would it, for our lawmakers not to make the same sacrifices that the rest of us have to make.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Alistair said:

    SLAb leadership election:

    Here's the full supporting nominations list:

    http://labourlist.org/2014/11/supporting-nominations-for-scottish-labour-leader-close-and-the-hustings-begin/

    Murphy with a massive lead in councilors and CLPs

    Its Ed part 2 - the union stooge to win over the members and MPs.

    If only Labour wasn't so undemocratic.

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited November 2014
    Danny565 said:

    PBTories don't want to see it, but in the real world, people are sick and tired of the super-rich acting like such spoilt brats, spitting their dummies out when they're asked to make a fraction of the sacrificies that the rest of us have had to make.

    When I hear about people making sacrifices like that it sounds like #FirstWorldProblems to me.
    TOPPING said:


    And we all know why. He is not able to think on his feet, or engage like a human being. He is terrified of how his responses "will play" and of "getting it wrong", whether by offending her fans and "everyman" or being seen as patronising her.

    Such is the lot of the modern liberal politician, when your base is made of every possible type of identity politics and social justice warrior, you are terrified that every word you make might offend some section of your vote.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Oh dear - did Mylene not "check her privilege ?"
  • Anyone got a link to that Comment is Free article from a few years ago about the chap moaning that ending child benefit was evil as it meant he couldn't afford piano lessons for his kids?
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited November 2014
    TGOHF said:

    Oh dear - did Mylene not "check her privilege ?"

    She probably did, and found it was less than Ed's. Of Course Ed loses anyway being a white middle aged male, even if we leave the IHT and millionaire issues to one side.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,407
    Cyclefree said:




    Danny565 said:

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    Yup. Even on the Daily Mail site, some of the top-rated comments are criticising Myleene.

    PBTories don't want to see it, but in the real world, people are sick and tired of the super-rich acting like such spoilt brats, spitting their dummies out when they're asked to make a fraction of the sacrificies that the rest of us have had to make.
    Quite. I hope Ed will announce that he will expressly make it law that any MPs living in houses above the mansion tax threshold will be forbidden from claiming it back on expenses.

    It wouldn't do, would it, for our lawmakers not to make the same sacrifices that the rest of us have to make.

    Quite right. No it would not !
  • Anyone got a link to that Comment is Free article from a few years ago about the chap moaning that ending child benefit was evil as it meant he couldn't afford piano lessons for his kids?

    This one?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/oct/04/osborne-child-benfit-war-families
  • antifrank said:

    Anyone got a link to that Comment is Free article from a few years ago about the chap moaning that ending child benefit was evil as it meant he couldn't afford piano lessons for his kids?

    This one?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/oct/04/osborne-child-benfit-war-families
    That's the one.

    Many thanks.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    Cyclefree said:

    BenM said:

    Indigo said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Labour's reply to Myleene Klass.

    "Labour's mansion tax will help to fund our NHS for the future."

    http://www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/six-things-you-need-to-know-about-labours-mansion-tax


    Labour's mansion tax will protect those who are asset-rich but cash-poor. People in high-value homes who do not have high incomes – those who do not pay the higher or top rate of tax, and earn less than £42,000 a year – will have the right to defer the mansion tax until their property changes hands.


    Which will be their excuse to get it extended below £2m.

    So we currently have Stamp Duty, Council Tax, and IHT.

    And Labour want to add another property tax, instead of dealing with the fundamental problems in the NHS.

    "You can't just point at things and tax them". If only.

    Its worse than that, imagine a couple in their early 70s, on a pension, so can't afford the tax, so it rolls up every year. They live another 15 years. When they die their estate gets hit for 45k possibly plus interest, after IHT. Its a death tax by the back door.
    Oh boo hoo.
    Imagine that they need to go into a nursing home, have to sell the house to pay for the fees and find they now have significantly less to pay for those fees because of this tax. Just try and imagine the worry that this will cause to elderly, frail, sick people.

    Labour likes to present itself as the caring party. It emotes over disabled people hurt by the bedroom tax but then treats with contempt an elderly couple worried about how a tax is going to affect their home and their source of funds to help look after them. Are they not worth your care?

    Or can we say "oh boo hoo" to the disabled because we need to raise the money and too bad if they can't have a spare room?

    Either argue that taxes are needed and everyone will have to pay or try and understand that all of us have worries and dismissing people's worries just because they're not your favourite people is an unpleasant trait, which does no credit to a party which claims to be nicer than everyone else and routinely disses its opponents as uncaring and unfeeling.


    On here posters have suggested if you can't afford the Mansion Tax pay up and move off. You're not welcome here.

    Labour, the party of hate and envy.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    Danny565 said:

    I could be wrong, but I am not sure that very rich people attacking Ed Miliband about the mansion tax is going to play that badly for Labour.

    Yup. Even on the Daily Mail site, some of the top-rated comments are criticising Myleene.

    PBTories don't want to see it, but in the real world, people are sick and tired of the super-rich acting like such spoilt brats, spitting their dummies out when they're asked to make a fraction of the sacrificies that the rest of us have had to make.

    True.
    Just look at the Millipede brothers. Not bothering to pay the same IHT they want everyone else to pay.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046

    antifrank said:

    Anyone got a link to that Comment is Free article from a few years ago about the chap moaning that ending child benefit was evil as it meant he couldn't afford piano lessons for his kids?

    This one?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/oct/04/osborne-child-benfit-war-families
    That's the one.

    Many thanks.
    Arguably the best CiF article & comments in recent history. Nothing to do with anything on-topic but extremely enjoyable nevertheless.

    theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/20/nail-bars-slavery-trafficking-vietnam
  • Anorak said:

    felix said:

    It's a sad day when a minor celebrity can get the entire Labour machine in overdrive to dish her!

    SaveED!

    Labour need to be careful though. The last time they went ad hominem Nick Clegg garnered a fair bit of sympathy.
    I'd be more careful if I were hitching my wagon to Ms Klass - she's got a bit of form for saying slightly dim, publicity seeking things that can be demonstrated to be false, her regular Walter Mitty-esque adventures that seemed just a little too perfect tabloid fodder were rather a cause celebre for Marina Hyde for a while.

    Although yes, going out and attacking her constantly is a little unedifying, although it was initially excitable right-wingers who predictably were looking for something to call Ed Miliband an idiot over, who highlighted it before the equally predictable backlash and Twitterstorm.

    Probably best for Lab to let Mylene have her day in the sun to promote her new baby range, and move the debate on to the facts surrounding and principles which underpin the idea of a mansion tax than going after a celebrity who has in a sense already 'won' - she's got the column inches and publicity, will have thinkpieces defending and attacking her and has kept her name out there as someone for TV producers and hacks to give a call.
    She's really irritated you, hasn't she. I can't remember a more patronising and passive-aggressive comment.
    Not particularly over this, and I apologise if that came across as a bit patronising due to finding her to be a bit daft in the past, along with some other 'celebs' who pop up in the press with obviously planted stories - see umpteen other examples regardless of their politics.

    The general point being that no one really wins except Ms Klass - who's in the business of earning money by leveraging her own celebrity to earn money, something she's perfectly entitled to do. The Graun will now no doubt run a piece attacking her, The Mail praising her, Buzzfeed gently mocking her. What's certain is that she'll be talked about and probably invited back on TV, Having a fight with Mylene Klass isn't a good look, nor is agreeing with her when she says London garages are worth £2m.

    Your opinion as to whether she 'destroyed Ed', or is a spoilt rich celeb who was rude probably depends on what your political opinion was in the first place, and it looks silly to both praise her as someone who's made any sort of great political point (even The Spectator doesn't think she made an awful lot of sense, despite loathing the mansion tax) or to attack her as a vile individual, when she probably isn't, just as most people aren't even if you believe they've said something daft.


  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Pulpstar said:

    Btw What is the current tax on £2m homes, my £100k one attracts around £1.1k p.a. so that's 1.1% on the council tax...

    I'd assume £2m should be around £20k p.a. ?

    It depends on the borough, but the highest Council Tax Band for all properties in England and Wales is £320k+. It is highly likely that £2m homes are therefore paying quite a small % of their value in Council Tax, far lower than 1%.

    In Westminster (to pick a semi-random but fitting Central London borough) the tax would be £1,353.48. That's roughly 0.66%.
  • TOPPING said:

    antifrank said:

    Anyone got a link to that Comment is Free article from a few years ago about the chap moaning that ending child benefit was evil as it meant he couldn't afford piano lessons for his kids?

    This one?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/oct/04/osborne-child-benfit-war-families
    That's the one.

    Many thanks.
    Arguably the best CiF article & comments in recent history. Nothing to do with anything on-topic but extremely enjoyable nevertheless.

    theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/20/nail-bars-slavery-trafficking-vietnam
    I'm still barred from Comment is Free.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Scott_P said:

    Woman worth an estimated 11 million pounds doesn't support a mansion tax shocker !
    Only on PB.

    Working single Mum critical of Tax policy suggested by millionaire politician who tried not to pay IHT...
    As I explained at length several threads back, the Miliband family DOV had no immediate effect on any IHT payable [the bill was zero in any case]. It still has had no effect 20 years later, and only might have an effect upon the death of his mother, provided she has taken no further steps to mitigate her IHT liability.

    The Finance Act 2009 has already considerably reduced the notional benefit of the DOV in any case.

  • Itajai said:

    Cyclefree said:

    BenM said:

    Indigo said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Labour's reply to Myleene Klass.

    "Labour's mansion tax will help to fund our NHS for the future."

    http://www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/six-things-you-need-to-know-about-labours-mansion-tax


    Labour's mansion tax will protect those who are asset-rich but cash-poor. People in high-value homes who do not have high incomes – those who do not pay the higher or top rate of tax, and earn less than £42,000 a year – will have the right to defer the mansion tax until their property changes hands.


    Which will be their excuse to get it extended below £2m.

    So we currently have Stamp Duty, Council Tax, and IHT.

    And Labour want to add another property tax, instead of dealing with the fundamental problems in the NHS.

    "You can't just point at things and tax them". If only.

    Its worse than that, imagine a couple in their early 70s, on a pension, so can't afford the tax, so it rolls up every year. They live another 15 years. When they die their estate gets hit for 45k possibly plus interest, after IHT. Its a death tax by the back door.
    Oh boo hoo.
    Imagine that they need to go into a nursing home, have to sell the house to pay for the fees and find they now have significantly less to pay for those fees because of this tax. Just try and imagine the worry that this will cause to elderly, frail, sick people.

    Labour likes to present itself as the caring party. It emotes over disabled people hurt by the bedroom tax but then treats with contempt an elderly couple worried about how a tax is going to affect their home and their source of funds to help look after them. Are they not worth your care?

    Or can we say "oh boo hoo" to the disabled because we need to raise the money and too bad if they can't have a spare room?

    Either argue that taxes are needed and everyone will have to pay or try and understand that all of us have worries and dismissing people's worries just because they're not your favourite people is an unpleasant trait, which does no credit to a party which claims to be nicer than everyone else and routinely disses its opponents as uncaring and unfeeling.


    On here posters have suggested if you can't afford the Mansion Tax pay up and move off. You're not welcome here.

    Labour, the party of hate and envy.
    That's how tax works. If you drive a big car and you can't afford the tax on the petrol, you sell it and get a smaller car. Likewise council tax, etc etc etc.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,407
    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Btw What is the current tax on £2m homes, my £100k one attracts around £1.1k p.a. so that's 1.1% on the council tax...

    I'd assume £2m should be around £20k p.a. ?

    It depends on the borough, but the highest Council Tax Band for all properties in England and Wales is £320k+. It is highly likely that £2m homes are therefore paying quite a small % of their value in Council Tax, far lower than 1%.

    In Westminster (to pick a semi-random but fitting Central London borough) the tax would be £1,353.48. That's roughly 0.66%.
    One tax I could be seeing in the future - stamp duty...

    That ludicrous situation would be laughed out of court if it was proposed and the Scottish system was the de facto/jure norm.

    Almost infinite marginal rates.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited November 2014
    TOPPING said:

    antifrank said:

    Anyone got a link to that Comment is Free article from a few years ago about the chap moaning that ending child benefit was evil as it meant he couldn't afford piano lessons for his kids?

    This one?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/oct/04/osborne-child-benfit-war-families
    That's the one.

    Many thanks.
    Arguably the best CiF article & comments in recent history. Nothing to do with anything on-topic but extremely enjoyable nevertheless.

    theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/20/nail-bars-slavery-trafficking-vietnam
    The Guardian itself was highly sceptical of the numbers in this article, their follow up article ends as follows:

    "The fact is, like any illicit activity, illegal immigration is extremely hard to measure. But that should not be an excuse for using spurious sources such as private companies or conflating separate notions such as immigration, human trafficking and slavery.

    It is possible that the Sunday Times' figures are accurate. But we would suggest treating them with a dose of scepticism."

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2013/aug/21/71000-vietnamese-manicurists-hidden-in-the-uk
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    Anorak said:

    felix said:

    It's a sad day when a minor celebrity can get the entire Labour machine in overdrive to dish her!

    SaveED!

    Labour need to be careful though. The last time they went ad hominem Nick Clegg garnered a fair bit of sympathy.
    She's really irritated you, hasn't she. I can't remember a more patronising and passive-aggressive comment.
    Not particularly over this, and I apologise if that came across as a bit patronising due to finding her to be a bit daft in the past, along with some other 'celebs' who pop up in the press with obviously planted stories - see umpteen other examples regardless of their politics.

    The general point being that no one really wins except Ms Klass - who's in the business of earning money by leveraging her own celebrity to earn money, something she's perfectly entitled to do. The Graun will now no doubt run a piece attacking her, The Mail praising her, Buzzfeed gently mocking her. What's certain is that she'll be talked about and probably invited back on TV, Having a fight with Mylene Klass isn't a good look, nor is agreeing with her when she says London garages are worth £2m.

    Your opinion as to whether she 'destroyed Ed', or is a spoilt rich celeb who was rude probably depends on what your political opinion was in the first place, and it looks silly to both praise her as someone who's made any sort of great political point (even The Spectator doesn't think she made an awful lot of sense, despite loathing the mansion tax) or to attack her as a vile individual, when she probably isn't, just as most people aren't even if you believe they've said something daft.


    RodCrosby said:

    Scott_P said:

    Woman worth an estimated 11 million pounds doesn't support a mansion tax shocker !
    Only on PB.

    Working single Mum critical of Tax policy suggested by millionaire politician who tried not to pay IHT...
    As I explained at length several threads back, the Miliband family DOV had no immediate effect on any IHT payable [the bill was zero in any case]. It still has had no effect 20 years later, and only might have an effect upon the death of his mother, provided she has taken no further steps to mitigate her IHT liability.

    The Finance Act 2009 has already considerably reduced the notional benefit of the DOV in any case.

    Apologies if you've already explained this: why would you do a DoV if it didn't save you any IHT?

  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    EDIT: Apologies, apparently Westminster is actually one of the cheapest in the country. Here are some more Band H amounts:

    Kensington & Chelsea - £2133.58 (ie. 1% or so)
    City of London - £1883.58 (ie. 0.9%)
    Tower Hamlets - £2369.04 (ie. 1.2%)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    edited November 2014
    Indigo said:

    TOPPING said:

    antifrank said:

    Anyone got a link to that Comment is Free article from a few years ago about the chap moaning that ending child benefit was evil as it meant he couldn't afford piano lessons for his kids?

    This one?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/oct/04/osborne-child-benfit-war-families
    That's the one.

    Many thanks.
    Arguably the best CiF article & comments in recent history. Nothing to do with anything on-topic but extremely enjoyable nevertheless.

    theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/20/nail-bars-slavery-trafficking-vietnam
    The Guardian itself was highly sceptical of the numbers in this article, their follow up article ends as follows:

    "The fact is, like any illicit activity, illegal immigration is extremely hard to measure. But that should not be an excuse for using spurious sources such as private companies or conflating separate notions such as immigration, human trafficking and slavery.

    It is possible that the Sunday Times' figures are accurate. But we would suggest treating them with a dose of scepticism."

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2013/aug/21/71000-vietnamese-manicurists-hidden-in-the-uk
    Yep - "follow up article" after they were destroyed by common sense and the BTL commentators. An example below. Only then was there a "follow up article".

    "Since you and the author don't seem to understand percentages, here's the plain English translation: your article is claiming that one person in 637 in the UK (including children and the elderly) is a trafficked Vietnamese manicurist. Does this sound plausible to you?

    "If they are all women, then this would mean one in 315 females of all ages in the UK is a trafficked Vietnamese manicurist. And if we assume they are between fifteen and forty-five, and this age range accounts for half of females, then they would be one in about 150 females in the range. If they are all on the game, as you claim, then even if they only have one client a night, then on any given day, one British man in 300 (ages 15 to 80) pays for sex with a tired trafficked Vietnamese nail manicurist. If they each had ten clients a night, then that would be one British man in 30 paying for sex with a trafficked Vietnamese nail manicurist - each day!

    "Does this seem plausible to you. Do you really think you and the author are qualified to write about anything involving numbers if you lack even the basic arithmetical common sense needed to judge the plausibility of this story."

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I thought Hortence was OGH in disguise when things were a bit slow or he was bored. Professor was another incarnation IIRC.
    Scott_P said:

    Woman worth an estimated 11 million pounds doesn't support a mansion tax shocker !
    Only on PB.

    Working single Mum critical of Tax policy suggested by millionaire politician who tried not to pay IHT...
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    House £100,000 = tax ZERO
    House £2 million = tax £140,000

    And the people who are contributing nothing are complaining?
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited November 2014
    TOPPING said:

    "Does this seem plausible to you. Do you really think you and the author are qualified to write about anything involving numbers if you lack even the basic arithmetical common sense needed to judge the plausibility of this story."

    Awesome. Well the end of the follow-up does in so many words say "oops we ripped off an article from the Sunday Times, and without bothering to check their sources we wrote it for even more outrage and even less numeracy"

  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2014
    antifrank said:

    An outstanding piece of detailed analysis of the Scottish Labour constituencies by Stephen Bush:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/11238028/Labour-faces-slaughter-in-Scotland.html

    This is essential reading for anyone betting on Scottish constituencies. He's actually been rather kind to Labour.

    Very intersting Antifrank, thanks.

    "Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock would go down to the wire – Labour would have a lead of 167 over the SNP, who are now third, but even a small Conservative boost there would see that party come through the middle."

    If you trust this guys analysis (btw, who is he?), Ladbrokes are offering 7/2 on a coin toss.

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/ayr-carrick-and-cumnock/winning-party

    Personally I've already got a lot of exposure to a Labour meltdown in Scotland, so I'll be giving it a miss. If I hadn't then I'd probably just Buy SNP seats on SPIN @ 21 as a decent(ish) tradeoutable bet, rather than dicking around with constituencies at shortish odds.

    Obviously a lot can change between now & May, but it could also change for the worse for Labour.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,407
    chestnut said:

    House £100,000 = tax ZERO
    House £2 million = tax £140,000

    And the people who are contributing nothing are complaining?

    Scrap stamp duty, stick it all on a council tax equivalent imo.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Afternoon all and can I ask is this thread based on the Opinium poll from 9th November or is it a new one and if so what were the headline numbers?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MrSteerpike: Labour accused Howard of ‘scurrilous, right-wing, ugly tactics' in 2005 speech. Today Yvette lifted lines from it: http://t.co/mzxo7pYAS6
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Pulpstar said:

    Scrap stamp duty, stick it all on a council tax equivalent imo.

    That would clear out what's left of the ordinary folk as only those on super-high incomes would be able to afford it.

    Job done, I suppose if the aim is to cleanse London of anybody remotely ordinary and turn it into Monaco.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Pulpstar said:

    chestnut said:

    House £100,000 = tax ZERO
    House £2 million = tax £140,000

    And the people who are contributing nothing are complaining?

    Scrap stamp duty, stick it all on a council tax equivalent imo.
    Definitely. Stamp Duty is a tax on mobility, and so a tax on jobs.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    edited November 2014
    In response to EiT who said this:

    "That's how tax works. If you drive a big car and you can't afford the tax on the petrol, you sell it and get a smaller car. Likewise council tax, etc etc etc."

    In response to your question to me earlier, I think council tax has provisions for dealing with the elderly asset rich cash poor person, which deals with that particular downside. I'm not that bothered by the other downsides because anyone buying a property now should factor in things like taxes.

    You're right that people may have to sell but where I think Labour are missing the point is the (often visceral) attachment people have to their homes. They should because, after all, it's the reason why they attacked the bedroom tax - the heartlessness involved in telling a mother that she needed to move because she didn't need the bedroom in which her son, serving in Afghanistan, had grown up. Well, it can seem equally heartless to tell an 84 year old that she should sell the family home in which she's lived all her married life and raised her family and which is associated with happy memories of her late husband.

    We can all come up with such stories. What grates with Labour's approach is that some are deemed so important that a whole policy (EdM: I will abolish the bedroom tax on my first day in office) is based on them and others are utterly ignored and anyone mentioning them is dismissed as simply indulging in contemptible special pleading.


  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited November 2014
    Could Labour's new immigration policy prompt leakage to lib dems and greens?? (without winning back many kipper votes).???

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited November 2014
    Pulpstar said:

    chestnut said:

    House £100,000 = tax ZERO
    House £2 million = tax £140,000

    And the people who are contributing nothing are complaining?

    Scrap stamp duty, stick it all on a council tax equivalent imo.
    Nah, scrap council tax and stick it all on stamp duty (I am not moving).

    Just out of interest, what ever happened to the Lib Dem idea of Local Income Tax? It was probably one of the only sane ideas that they have come up with, but it died a death and I don't know why.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2014
    Quincel said:

    EDIT: Apologies, apparently Westminster is actually one of the cheapest in the country. Here are some more Band H amounts:

    Kensington & Chelsea - £2133.58 (ie. 1% or so)
    City of London - £1883.58 (ie. 0.9%)
    Tower Hamlets - £2369.04 (ie. 1.2%)

    That's ridiculous! Maybe we should have 4 or 5 more bands, including a superband for the serious mansions and just forget this Mansion Tax idiocy.
  • Afternoon all and can I ask is this thread based on the Opinium poll from 9th November or is it a new one and if so what were the headline numbers?

    The fieldwork was from Friday through to Yesterday.

    And has the Tories ahead on VI, so I think it is another crossover poll

    Con 34, Lab 33, LD 5, UKIP 18, Greens 5

    http://ourinsight.opinium.co.uk/sites/ourinsight.opinium.co.uk/files/op5032_opinium_pr_voting_reasons_-_tables_v.pdf
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Scott_P said:

    @MrSteerpike: Labour accused Howard of ‘scurrilous, right-wing, ugly tactics' in 2005 speech. Today Yvette lifted lines from it: http://t.co/mzxo7pYAS6

    They read Peter Keller in yesterday's Guardian "The proportion of Ukip voters coming from the Labour party has trebled from 7% to 23%. " and it got their attention I think.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/17/ukip-support-british-politics-voters-labour-party
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited November 2014
    Cyclefree said:

    Anorak said:

    felix said:

    It's a sad day when a minor celebrity can get the entire Labour machine in overdrive to dish her!

    SaveED!

    Labour need to be careful though. The last time they went ad hominem Nick Clegg garnered a fair bit of sympathy.
    She's really irritated you, hasn't she. I can't remember a more patronising and passive-aggressive comment.
    ...

    RodCrosby said:

    Scott_P said:

    Woman worth an estimated 11 million pounds doesn't support a mansion tax shocker !
    Only on PB.

    Working single Mum critical of Tax policy suggested by millionaire politician who tried not to pay IHT...
    As I explained at length several threads back, the Miliband family DOV had no immediate effect on any IHT payable [the bill was zero in any case]. It still has had no effect 20 years later, and only might have an effect upon the death of his mother, provided she has taken no further steps to mitigate her IHT liability.

    The Finance Act 2009 has already considerably reduced the notional benefit of the DOV in any case.

    Apologies if you've already explained this: why would you do a DoV if it didn't save you any IHT?

    Because the way the IHT rules worked in 1994. Ralph Miliband foolishly didn't make use of his Nil Rate Band in his will. He just left everything to his wife, and spousal transfers are tax-free in any case. The DOV was just a belt-and-braces attempt to make use of an entitlement he had forgotten to use.

    It had no immediate tax effects, and may still have none, depending on how Mrs Miliband has arranged her affairs in the intervening 20 years...
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Patrick said:

    Quincel said:

    EDIT: Apologies, apparently Westminster is actually one of the cheapest in the country. Here are some more Band H amounts:

    Kensington & Chelsea - £2133.58 (ie. 1% or so)
    City of London - £1883.58 (ie. 0.9%)
    Tower Hamlets - £2369.04 (ie. 1.2%)

    That's ridiculous! Maybe we should have 4 or 5 more bands, including a superband for the serious mansions and just forget this Mansion Tax idiocy.
    It does seem a simpler method to achieve the same outcome, I must say. I'm pretty bemused as to why this isn't the proposal anyway.

    Incidentally, I just realised I got my %s all wrong. £2000 isn't 1% of £2m, it's 0.1%. Revise all the %s down by 10 times.
  • Just to add to the mystery of the Vietnamese nail manicurists, out in the eastern suburbs of Berlin there's a Vietnamese shopping centre, which is basically a bunch of warehouses divided up into little Vietnamese shops. This includes loads and loads and loads of nail shop supply shops. Not shops get your nails manicured, shops where people who run shops to get your mails manicured go to buy their nail manicuring supplies. So where are the nail manicuring shops, and where are all the people with very neatly manicured nails? Capitalism is weird.
  • Nah, scrap all taxes except income tax with a flat rate and no concessions, allowances or reliefs. Then everybody would know exactly where they stood.

    Local income taxes make perfect sense. The idea died the death because nobody wins votes by proposing new forms of taxation, however sensible, and even if they do not increase the general burden of taxation.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Indigo said:
    How can it be a mansion? It's a 4 bedroom semi. A large-ish house but no mansion.
  • Blinking hell, the Tories have used the Ed Miliband/Myleene Klass thing in their latest attack on Ed.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2u_XMsCUAA3XX-.jpg
This discussion has been closed.