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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some relief for LAB/Ed with ComRes online as lead moves up

SystemSystem Posts: 11,706
edited November 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some relief for LAB/Ed with ComRes online as lead moves up to 4%

The findings from the poll that I’ve highlighted in the chart are on perceptions of Dave which I think get to the heart of the challenges for both leaders. People can’t imagine Ed at Number 10 while Dave is not seen as someone who stand up for working people. Also the perception is that a CON government will cut a lot more than a LAB one.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    Everyone knows Ipsos-Mori is the gold standard.
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    Did ComRes fully prompt for UKIP this time or not at all?
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    ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    Oh goody, the Magic Kingdom, sorry Baxter, says this means a 120 seat majority for Labour.

    Personally, I´d rather trust the Tooth Fairy.
  • Options
    Itajai said:

    Oh goody, the Magic Kingdom, sorry Baxter, says this means a 120 seat majority for Labour.

    Personally, I´d rather trust the Tooth Fairy.

    When I Baxter this, it returns a Lab maj of 44
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Comres for the Sunday Mirror and Sunday Indy is always labour friendly.

    They overstated the Lab-Tory gap by 5.5 at the Euros.

  • Options
    Hmm, they did prompt for UKIP

    If there were a General Election / UK General Election (for Scotland) tomorrow, would you vote Conservative, Labour, Liberal Democrat, UKIP or for some other party?

    http://comres.co.uk/polls/SM_IoS_Voting_Intention_tables_November_2014.pdf
  • Options

    Swiss_Bob said:

    kle4 said:

    Swiss_Bob said:

    Swiss_Bob said:

    The Rochester poster is interesting.

    A casual voter may not have noticed how this Oxford PPE pointscorer was their Con MP so recently.

    Talk about people in glasshouses throwing stones. I wonder if the Tories will be deploying similar posters in places like Witney at the coming GE lol.
    Both sound pretty repellent to me. I would vote for neither.
    But it's fun seeing the Tories trying for the class war vote, innit?

    Nominations closed in our borough council by-election (Dec 11) on Friday. No LibDem candidate, even though they got 20% there last time. It's the safest Tory ward (Toton) but UKIP (who initiated the by-election) and Labour are having a go. Lots of local issues - HS2 was going to be sited here, but now probably isn't and 500 houses are being built on the Green Belt.

    Which party's fault is it we need so much new housing?

    Let me guess, is it the party that let tens of millions of immigrants into the country?
    Tens Of Millions ? - Now come on . Exaggeration to such a degree just makes you look an idiot .
    Shall we do some basic maths.

    You tell me what you think the current UK population is bearing in mind there's no census anymore and people were not required to complete the last one and didn't in large numbers.
    Tens of millions 'large numbers'? That's not credible.
    Feel free to answer the question I asked Mr Senior, then the maths lesson can begin.
    Come on , be a man , own up to gross exaggeration or give us some detailed data to back up your ludicrous assertion .
    Calm down. I wanted you to give me and confirm figures otherwise what's the point.

    If you accept the 300k per year emigration we are back to 52 million versus 62 million.

    That's ten million. Forget the replacement rate, it's negative or if it's not today it has been for decades past.

    Now I'm using your 2010 census figure, one known to be inaccurate. This leads to one wondering why the UK Govt doesn't want an accurate population figure.

    Published numbers by supermarkets and utility providers have estimated the current UK population somewhere between 70-80 million. You might disagree with those numbers but they are not mine.

    That's tens of millions without having to exaggerate anything using the best numbers available.


  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Itajai said:

    Oh goody, the Magic Kingdom, sorry Baxter, says this means a 120 seat majority for Labour.

    Personally, I´d rather trust the Tooth Fairy.

    When I Baxter this, it returns a Lab maj of 44
    Knock off 20 seats for their likely meltdown in Scotland.
  • Options

    Hmm, they did prompt for UKIP

    If there were a General Election / UK General Election (for Scotland) tomorrow, would you vote Conservative, Labour, Liberal Democrat, UKIP or for some other party?

    http://comres.co.uk/polls/SM_IoS_Voting_Intention_tables_November_2014.pdf

    Definitely fading if they prompted for UKIP.
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    chestnut said:

    Comres for the Sunday Mirror and Sunday Indy is always labour friendly.

    They overstated the Lab-Tory gap by 5.5 at the Euros.

    They got the Lab share largely spot on.

    It was that they hysterically over estimated UKIP and misunderestimated the Tories.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited November 2014
    Comres overstated Labour by 1.6 and understated Tory by 3.9

    They overstated the kippers by 5.5, agreed.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,071
    Isn't about time we heard from the LibDems again about the advantages of staying in the EU?
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    do you take "working people" in this question to mean the working class or people in employment? taking it literally i'd assume the latter, but what proportion of respondents think like that?
  • Options
    Which of the following actors do you think would be best to play each Party leader in a film?

    Miliband wins as Mr Bean (Atkinson) on 27%.

    As someone here once said. Ed Miliband will never be Prime Minister.
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    ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    Or IS Millipede Mr Bean?
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    I can imagine Ed Miliband as Prime Minister

    E+W : 22%
    Scotland: 10%

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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited November 2014

    Hmm, they did prompt for UKIP

    If there were a General Election / UK General Election (for Scotland) tomorrow, would you vote Conservative, Labour, Liberal Democrat, UKIP or for some other party?

    http://comres.co.uk/polls/SM_IoS_Voting_Intention_tables_November_2014.pdf

    Edit

    Ignore previous.

    "We have decided to include UKIP as a prompted option in both our telephone and online polling, alongside the Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat parties.

    The rise in support for UKIP means that it has outpolled the (prompted) Liberal Democrats in every ComRes poll since February 2013. In our continuing drive for accuracy, we constantly review our methodology and test it. Last month we published an experiment using a split sample (prompted and unprompted).

    We have also analysed other data, as a result of which we have adjusted weights and filters based on past voting behaviour, party identification and current voting intention. We will continue to review our methodology regularly."

    http://www.comres.co.uk/poll/1319/sunday-mirror-independent-on-sunday-november-2014-poll.htm
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    Poll data as comedy?

    Miliband is converting the undecideds.

    I can imagine Ed Miliband as Prime Minister:

    Agree 20% (-5), Disagree 59% (+6), Don't knows 21% (-1)
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Twitter
    Andrew Hawkins ‏@Andrew_ComRes now13 seconds ago
    44% of 2010 Labour voters 'can imagine Ed M as PM' (ComRes/IoS/S Mirror)
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    chestnut said:

    I can imagine Ed Miliband as Prime Minister

    E+W : 22%
    Scotland: 10%

    Ouch!

    That is going to hurt. Will the revolver be handed to Ed by a Scot?

  • Options
    Ed is strolling to a big victory. He has been on our screens a good deal recently and Labour's lead has increased. Only the panic stricken Labour MPs don't seem to realize this.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Anthony Wells:
    "ComRes’s press release suggests they have also tweaked their weightings this month. I’ll update with details once they are confirmed, but looking through the tables nothing jumps out at me so it is probably relatively minor."

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9063
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Vacancy at Survation:

    "Survation are currently recruiting for a Junior Data & Statistics Analyst for our busy and growing research department."

    http://survation.com/survation-are-recruiting-a-junior-data-statistics-analyst/
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    Ed is strolling to a big victory. He has been on our screens a good deal recently and Labour's lead has increased. Only the panic stricken Labour MPs don't seem to realize this.

    And tractor production is at an all time high!
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Swiss_Bob said:

    Which of the following actors do you think would be best to play each Party leader in a film?

    Miliband wins as Mr Bean (Atkinson) on 27%.

    As someone here once said. Ed Miliband will never be Prime Minister.

    Source please ....

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    Ed is strolling to a big victory. He has been on our screens a good deal recently and Labour's lead has increased. Only the panic stricken Labour MPs don't seem to realize this.

    A very bold claim to make in view of Labour's declining lead in the polling averages.
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    When you see four brand new red tractors coming along the road, it makes you think though.
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    Where's that Mr Senior gone, not long ago he was demanding an answer to my 'ludicrous assertion'.

    Now I've given him an answer he's done a runner.
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    When you see four brand new red tractors coming along the road, it makes you think though.

    Only if you ignore the blue tractors on the same road.

    You know the three other pollsters who this week have the Tories ahead.
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    woody662woody662 Posts: 255
    Com Res doing the usual Sir Humphrey trick with their questions to get the story the Mirror want.

    I filled in a yougov earlier this week which was such an obvious push poll n behalf of Gatwick, it was unbelievable.

    'the reputable ones don't but there aren't many of those'
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    Isn't about time we heard from the LibDems again about the advantages of staying in the EU?

    The CBI have already made the case.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Swiss_Bob said:

    Where's that Mr Senior gone, not long ago he was demanding an answer to my 'ludicrous assertion'.

    Now I've given him an answer he's done a runner.

    He's probably having a nap after taking his medication.
  • Options
    Caroline Flack, that is all.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    ConservativeHome quotes John Major's very good point on UK renegotiation of EU immigration:

    “I hear it said by eminent Europeans that freedom of movement is sacrosanct. It is one of the four freedoms set out in the founding Treaty. The argument is that if we tamper with freedom of movement, the other freedoms will fall. I understand that view but it has a flaw. Twenty five years after the Single European Act, the other founding freedoms are not fully honoured by the EU. Not one of them. If freedom of movement is immutable, when will member states complete the Single Market? When will they end closed shops and protectionism, and open their markets to British services – especially our professional services? When will they fully integrate capital markets? Or the energy market? Or digital? Need I go on? If these had been implemented in full, then Britain’s case on free movement would be weakened. But they are not.”

    Cameron mustn't back down on this. His office has floated a strong option of a points system, and a weak option of an emergency brake, and says they'll release proposals by the end of the year. If this turns out to be another "we will not let matters rest there" like the fiasco in response to the Lisbon Treaty, then Cameron really will be selling out the British people for no good reason. We pay for a tenth of the EU budget, so we should have leverage. If the EU refuses it will be only out of pure obstinacy in refusing the UK's concerns. Cameron can not back down purely because the other nations are pig-headed.
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    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited November 2014
    woody662 said:

    Com Res doing the usual Sir Humphrey trick with their questions to get the story the Mirror want.

    I filled in a yougov earlier this week which was such an obvious push poll n behalf of Gatwick, it was unbelievable.

    'the reputable ones don't but there aren't many of those'

    As a matter of interest what exactly was ComRes' key VI question?
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    GeoffM said:

    Swiss_Bob said:

    Where's that Mr Senior gone, not long ago he was demanding an answer to my 'ludicrous assertion'.

    Now I've given him an answer he's done a runner.

    He's probably having a nap after taking his medication.
    Nope he is just about to take part in a bridge tourney on Bridge Club Live
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    GeoffM said:

    Swiss_Bob said:

    Where's that Mr Senior gone, not long ago he was demanding an answer to my 'ludicrous assertion'.

    Now I've given him an answer he's done a runner.

    He's probably having a nap after taking his medication.
    Nope he is just about to take part in a bridge tourney on Bridge Club Live
    Funny, you were desperate to shoot me down in flames not long ago.

    Tumbleweed. . . . .
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Dutch MPs from across the political spectrum have called for more research into the attitudes of young Dutch Turks to the Islamic State, after a poll of 300 showed 80% saw nothing wrong in jihad, or holy war, against non-believers.

    http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2014/11/young-dutch-turks-radical-views-worry-mps-call-for-more-research.php/
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Evening all and after Comedy Resolutions polling, what can we expect other than the weekly YouGov. Is ComRes aiming to get within 5% of the actual result next May I wonder?
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Swiss_Bob said:

    GeoffM said:

    Swiss_Bob said:

    Where's that Mr Senior gone, not long ago he was demanding an answer to my 'ludicrous assertion'.

    Now I've given him an answer he's done a runner.

    He's probably having a nap after taking his medication.
    Nope he is just about to take part in a bridge tourney on Bridge Club Live
    Funny, you were desperate to shoot me down in flames not long ago.

    Tumbleweed. . . . .
    The numbers you are quoting are drivel . The 300,000 annual emigration includes people who were immigrants in previous years . Now go off and make up some more fantasy figures
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    Andrew Hawkins ‏@Andrew_ComRes

    Was Ed M right to give money to the street beggar? 38% yes 29% no (ComRes/IoS/SMirror)
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Here's another chart that shows how the UK gets excluded from political power in the EU:

    http://i.imgur.com/uGlrLO2.png
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    Andrew Hawkins ‏@Andrew_ComRes

    Was Ed M right to give money to the street beggar? 38% yes 29% no (ComRes/IoS/SMirror)

    Surely the most appropriate and apposite question would have been:
    Was Ed Miliband right to give a 2p coin to the street beggar?
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341


    Was Ed Miliband right to give a 2p coin to the street beggar?

    Who was a 14 year old Romanian.
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    Swiss_Bob said:

    GeoffM said:

    Swiss_Bob said:

    Where's that Mr Senior gone, not long ago he was demanding an answer to my 'ludicrous assertion'.

    Now I've given him an answer he's done a runner.

    He's probably having a nap after taking his medication.
    Nope he is just about to take part in a bridge tourney on Bridge Club Live
    Funny, you were desperate to shoot me down in flames not long ago.

    Tumbleweed. . . . .
    The numbers you are quoting are drivel . The 300,000 annual emigration includes people who were immigrants in previous years . Now go off and make up some more fantasy figures
    Here's a sample of the report I based my numbers on:

    "It is the statistic that dare not speak its name, though eventually it must. It has huge ramifications for the civil and political life of this country, the health of the equity markets and, most immediately, the residential property market. So don't forget you read it here first: the population of the UK is presently somewhere between 77 and 80 million."

    and

    My sources for the above statement are good, but scared of admitting the truth for fear of incurring the wrath of Whitehall. It's like the best way of monitoring illegal drug consumption: forget the pious statements from ministers – the foolproof method is to sample our water and the effluent in it. That's easily the best way of monitoring what the nation has been consuming.

    and

    I have a second, respectable, source. A major, non-commercial agricultural institution reckons there are 77 million of us in the UK. Again, its reckoning is based on what we eat.

    That faint background noise you're hearing as you read this is the sound of everyone slithering off the record. Why? In political terms, standing behind these figures would be to toss a hand grenade into a vat of gasoline. People would be hounded out of a job for scaremongering.


    and

    If the true numbers were revealed, the Little Englanders and xenophobes would come out in force about the evils of immigration. But that's what made America great in the 19th century, and it's a driving force of our economy right now. It's also anti-inflationary.

    David Buik, a money manager with broker BGC Partners, was talking of "one million Eastern Europeans unaccounted for in London" on television last week. I suspect he's right if somewhat conservative in his estimate. How many do you see working in the construction industry and waiting at tables?


    So my numbers are based on more than 'ludicrous assertion' while your argument is nothing but assertion and bile.

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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2014
    The only methodological difference is that now Comres prompts for UKIP, but the result is strikingly the same for all parties, it's like the prompting doesn't do a difference at all.
    Perhaps the impact of prompting is overstated, if it was just a UKIP thing then the other parties wouldn't have scored almost the exact same percentages.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @Swiss_Bob

    I'm one to campaign against mass immigration more than anything, but the Office for National Statistics - which is independent from government - has far more data at it's disposal to calculate these things than any private company looking through the lens of one industry.
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    ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    Socrates said:

    Dutch MPs from across the political spectrum have called for more research into the attitudes of young Dutch Turks to the Islamic State, after a poll of 300 showed 80% saw nothing wrong in jihad, or holy war, against non-believers.

    http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2014/11/young-dutch-turks-radical-views-worry-mps-call-for-more-research.php/


    Bet they regret not having nationality based on jus sanguinis.

    Were they imported into NL to provide vote fodder for the PvdA?
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Isn't about time we heard from the LibDems again about the advantages of staying in the EU?

    The CBI have already made the case.
    Like they did on the European single currency?
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    I wonder how long it will be until a quick witted photo journalist catches Ed Bland or Justine buying trainers in their local branch of Sports Direct. Maybe the good folks at Newcastle Utd will have a view on Ed's comments.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    I missed this from a couple weeks ago:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/28/china-summit-lse-eu-idUSL5N0SN5FG20141028

    Britain leaving the European Union (EU) would not harm London's ability to compete as a global financial centre, but could threaten the bloc's ability to attract investors, the chief executive of the London Stock Exchange said on Tuesday.
  • Options
    Socrates said:

    Here's another chart that shows how the UK gets excluded from political power in the EU:

    http://i.imgur.com/uGlrLO2.png

    It isn't extraordinarily surprising that we were "excluded from political power" in the European Economic Community between 1957 and 1973, given that we were not, in fact, a member of it.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    I wonder how long it will be until a quick witted photo journalist catches Ed Bland or Justine buying trainers in their local branch of Sports Direct. Maybe the good folks at Newcastle Utd will have a view on Ed's comments.

    ?
    I haven't seen a politician buying trainers, ever, not in any country in the world.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Speedy said:

    I wonder how long it will be until a quick witted photo journalist catches Ed Bland or Justine buying trainers in their local branch of Sports Direct. Maybe the good folks at Newcastle Utd will have a view on Ed's comments.

    ?
    I haven't seen a politician buying trainers, ever, not in any country in the world.
    Spend a lot of time looking for politicians buying trainers in many countries do you Speedy? I suppose it beats plane or train spotting.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Socrates said:

    I missed this from a couple weeks ago:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/28/china-summit-lse-eu-idUSL5N0SN5FG20141028

    Britain leaving the European Union (EU) would not harm London's ability to compete as a global financial centre, but could threaten the bloc's ability to attract investors, the chief executive of the London Stock Exchange said on Tuesday.

    That's for a UKIP poster.
    Every time someone says "we have to stay in the EU because the City will be replaced by Frankfurt blah blah blah" you can point at that article.
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    Socrates said:

    @Swiss_Bob

    I'm one to campaign against mass immigration more than anything, but the Office for National Statistics - which is independent from government - has far more data at it's disposal to calculate these things than any private company looking through the lens of one industry.

    Do you believe the ONS figure of 64 million for the UK population?
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    I wonder how long it will be until a quick witted photo journalist catches Ed Bland or Justine buying trainers in their local branch of Sports Direct. Maybe the good folks at Newcastle Utd will have a view on Ed's comments.

    ?
    I haven't seen a politician buying trainers, ever, not in any country in the world.
    Spend a lot of time looking for politicians buying trainers in many countries do you Speedy? I suppose it beats plane or train spotting.
    Have you ever seen a photo of a politician buying trainers?
    I haven't.
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    Caroline Flack, that is all.

    Me too.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Swiss_Bob said:

    Socrates said:

    @Swiss_Bob

    I'm one to campaign against mass immigration more than anything, but the Office for National Statistics - which is independent from government - has far more data at it's disposal to calculate these things than any private company looking through the lens of one industry.

    Do you believe the ONS figure of 64 million for the UK population?
    I think it's the best estimate we have.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    There was this rare sighting of a lesser spotted Brown Gordon heaving his way round St James's Park.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1226069/At-Gordon-Brown-runs-election-early-morning-jog-round-park.html

    Did he ever repeat the stunt?
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @dr_spyn
    It's about as rare as a Cameron on a bicycle (with limo following behind)
  • Options
    We will lose Rochester and Strood byelection, admits senior Conservative

    Tory cabinet source says Ukip will win and the Conservative party’s best hope is to ‘keep defeat to single digits’

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/15/rochester-strood-ukip-conservatives-admit-defeat
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    Speedy said:

    I wonder how long it will be until a quick witted photo journalist catches Ed Bland or Justine buying trainers in their local branch of Sports Direct. Maybe the good folks at Newcastle Utd will have a view on Ed's comments.

    ?
    I haven't seen a politician buying trainers, ever, not in any country in the world.
    You need to come to Sevenoaks: "MEETING the deputy prime minister could be a red-letter day for some Sevenoaks residents – but not for one of the town's longest-serving postmen.

    Eric Lowes, who has worked the High Street for more than 12 years, failed to recognise Nick Clegg when the politician approached him for some shopping advice on Saturday.

    The 65-year-old was doing his rounds when Mr Clegg asked him where was best to buy sports gear.

    Mr Lowes said: "A man said he wanted to buy a ping-pong ball and some trainers for his son".

    Read more: http://www.courier.co.uk/Eric-fails-recognise-Nick-Clegg-street/story-12748067-detail/story.html#ixzz3JAnGgd4w

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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    dr_spyn said:

    There was this rare sighting of a lesser spotted Brown Gordon heaving his way round St James's Park.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1226069/At-Gordon-Brown-runs-election-early-morning-jog-round-park.html

    Did he ever repeat the stunt?

    Another imported american stunt.
    Was Jimmy Carter the first one who started the presidential jogging tradition?
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Smarmeron said:

    @dr_spyn
    It's about as rare as a Cameron on a bicycle (with limo following behind)

    And about as believable.

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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TheScreamingEagles
    A lot of voters seem intent on showing the conservatives a "single digit"?
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Here's another chart that shows how the UK gets excluded from political power in the EU:

    http://i.imgur.com/uGlrLO2.png

    It isn't extraordinarily surprising that we were "excluded from political power" in the European Economic Community between 1957 and 1973, given that we were not, in fact, a member of it.
    Except that the majority of EU institutions were not created until after 1973.
  • Options

    I wonder how long it will be until a quick witted photo journalist catches Ed Bland or Justine buying trainers in their local branch of Sports Direct. Maybe the good folks at Newcastle Utd will have a view on Ed's comments.

    Surely the question is, what do the zero-hour employees at Sports Direct think? Are zero hours better than none?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2014

    We will lose Rochester and Strood byelection, admits senior Conservative

    Tory cabinet source says Ukip will win and the Conservative party’s best hope is to ‘keep defeat to single digits’

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/15/rochester-strood-ukip-conservatives-admit-defeat

    I'm sure Tories in Rochester are over the moon about this. Just what they need to encourage the footsoldiers to get out the vote on Thursday.
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    Socrates said:

    ConservativeHome quotes John Major's very good point on UK renegotiation of EU immigration:

    “I hear it said by eminent Europeans that freedom of movement is sacrosanct. It is one of the four freedoms set out in the founding Treaty. The argument is that if we tamper with freedom of movement, the other freedoms will fall. I understand that view but it has a flaw. Twenty five years after the Single European Act, the other founding freedoms are not fully honoured by the EU. Not one of them. If freedom of movement is immutable, when will member states complete the Single Market? When will they end closed shops and protectionism, and open their markets to British services – especially our professional services? When will they fully integrate capital markets? Or the energy market? Or digital? Need I go on? If these had been implemented in full, then Britain’s case on free movement would be weakened. But they are not.”

    Cameron mustn't back down on this. His office has floated a strong option of a points system, and a weak option of an emergency brake, and says they'll release proposals by the end of the year. If this turns out to be another "we will not let matters rest there" like the fiasco in response to the Lisbon Treaty, then Cameron really will be selling out the British people for no good reason. We pay for a tenth of the EU budget, so we should have leverage. If the EU refuses it will be only out of pure obstinacy in refusing the UK's concerns. Cameron can not back down purely because the other nations are pig-headed.

    I agree with Major, and Socrates, on all of this.

    Are there any Tories who don't?
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    AndyJS said:

    We will lose Rochester and Strood byelection, admits senior Conservative

    Tory cabinet source says Ukip will win and the Conservative party’s best hope is to ‘keep defeat to single digits’

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/15/rochester-strood-ukip-conservatives-admit-defeat

    I'm sure Tories in Rochester are over the moon about this. Just what they need to encourage the footsoldiers to get out the vote in Thursday.
    It is expectations management.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2014
    AndyJS said:

    We will lose Rochester and Strood byelection, admits senior Conservative

    Tory cabinet source says Ukip will win and the Conservative party’s best hope is to ‘keep defeat to single digits’

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/15/rochester-strood-ukip-conservatives-admit-defeat

    I'm sure Tories in Rochester are over the moon about this. Just what they need to encourage the footsoldiers to get out the vote on Thursday.
    True, a Tory capitulation might impact the result, though only marginally. The hit on turnout might be bigger.

    Looking at turnout, the weather in Rochester looks to be clear on Thursday, temperature around 10 degrees with a southern wind.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    LucyJones said:

    Speedy said:

    I wonder how long it will be until a quick witted photo journalist catches Ed Bland or Justine buying trainers in their local branch of Sports Direct. Maybe the good folks at Newcastle Utd will have a view on Ed's comments.

    ?
    I haven't seen a politician buying trainers, ever, not in any country in the world.
    You need to come to Sevenoaks: "MEETING the deputy prime minister could be a red-letter day for some Sevenoaks residents – but not for one of the town's longest-serving postmen.

    Eric Lowes, who has worked the High Street for more than 12 years, failed to recognise Nick Clegg when the politician approached him for some shopping advice on Saturday.

    The 65-year-old was doing his rounds when Mr Clegg asked him where was best to buy sports gear.

    Mr Lowes said: "A man said he wanted to buy a ping-pong ball and some trainers for his son".

    Read more: http://www.courier.co.uk/Eric-fails-recognise-Nick-Clegg-street/story-12748067-detail/story.html#ixzz3JAnGgd4w

    Clegg is easy to recognise. He's the one on fire with nobody pissing on him.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    AndyJS said:



    I'm sure Tories in Rochester are over the moon about this. Just what they need to encourage the footsoldiers to get out the vote on Thursday.


    "Our vote is holding up OK. We are at 30%, maybe even 33%. It is not bad. Ukip are in the 40s. But Labour have absolutely capitulated and collapsed in a seat that they held until 2010. There are at least as many questions for Ed Miliband as for us. We are fairly relaxed about the whole thing, as I think it is priced in at this stage"

    Imagine a UKIP win by 40-35, which is conceivable, but Labour on 15 or so.

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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    ConservativeHome quotes John Major's very good point on UK renegotiation of EU immigration:

    “I hear it said by eminent Europeans that freedom of movement is sacrosanct. It is one of the four freedoms set out in the founding Treaty. The argument is that if we tamper with freedom of movement, the other freedoms will fall. I understand that view but it has a flaw. Twenty five years after the Single European Act, the other founding freedoms are not fully honoured by the EU. Not one of them. If freedom of movement is immutable, when will member states complete the Single Market? When will they end closed shops and protectionism, and open their markets to British services – especially our professional services? When will they fully integrate capital markets? Or the energy market? Or digital? Need I go on? If these had been implemented in full, then Britain’s case on free movement would be weakened. But they are not.”

    Cameron mustn't back down on this. His office has floated a strong option of a points system, and a weak option of an emergency brake, and says they'll release proposals by the end of the year. If this turns out to be another "we will not let matters rest there" like the fiasco in response to the Lisbon Treaty, then Cameron really will be selling out the British people for no good reason. We pay for a tenth of the EU budget, so we should have leverage. If the EU refuses it will be only out of pure obstinacy in refusing the UK's concerns. Cameron can not back down purely because the other nations are pig-headed.

    I agree with Major, and Socrates, on all of this.

    Are there any Tories who don't?
    I get the impression that there are the Conservatives that agree, and the Conservatives that are awaiting what to be told to believe by No 10 when they release the proposals in December.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Socrates said:

    ConservativeHome quotes John Major's very good point on UK renegotiation of EU immigration:

    “I hear it said by eminent Europeans that freedom of movement is sacrosanct. It is one of the four freedoms set out in the founding Treaty. The argument is that if we tamper with freedom of movement, the other freedoms will fall. I understand that view but it has a flaw. Twenty five years after the Single European Act, the other founding freedoms are not fully honoured by the EU. Not one of them. If freedom of movement is immutable, when will member states complete the Single Market? When will they end closed shops and protectionism, and open their markets to British services – especially our professional services? When will they fully integrate capital markets? Or the energy market? Or digital? Need I go on? If these had been implemented in full, then Britain’s case on free movement would be weakened. But they are not.”

    Cameron mustn't back down on this. His office has floated a strong option of a points system, and a weak option of an emergency brake, and says they'll release proposals by the end of the year. If this turns out to be another "we will not let matters rest there" like the fiasco in response to the Lisbon Treaty, then Cameron really will be selling out the British people for no good reason. We pay for a tenth of the EU budget, so we should have leverage. If the EU refuses it will be only out of pure obstinacy in refusing the UK's concerns. Cameron can not back down purely because the other nations are pig-headed.

    I agree with Major, and Socrates, on all of this.

    Are there any Tories who don't?

    Ken Clarke?

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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915

    I wonder how long it will be until a quick witted photo journalist catches Ed Bland or Justine buying trainers in their local branch of Sports Direct. Maybe the good folks at Newcastle Utd will have a view on Ed's comments.

    Surely the question is, what do the zero-hour employees at Sports Direct think? Are zero hours better than none?
    In my experience a great many people on zero hours contracts work as many hours as they are available. In a shop like Sports Direct, most of the zero hours staff will be students who work evenings and weekends.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    AndyJS said:

    We will lose Rochester and Strood byelection, admits senior Conservative

    Tory cabinet source says Ukip will win and the Conservative party’s best hope is to ‘keep defeat to single digits’

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/15/rochester-strood-ukip-conservatives-admit-defeat

    I'm sure Tories in Rochester are over the moon about this. Just what they need to encourage the footsoldiers to get out the vote on Thursday.
    Some senior Tory MPs should be taken aside by the PM and Chief Whip and told to shut the fcuk up and concentrate on helping the party win a majority in May. Party workers get really sick of self-indulgent MPs who undo much of their hard work.
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    Socrates said:

    ConservativeHome quotes John Major's very good point on UK renegotiation of EU immigration:

    “I hear it said by eminent Europeans that freedom of movement is sacrosanct. It is one of the four freedoms set out in the founding Treaty. The argument is that if we tamper with freedom of movement, the other freedoms will fall. I understand that view but it has a flaw. Twenty five years after the Single European Act, the other founding freedoms are not fully honoured by the EU. Not one of them. If freedom of movement is immutable, when will member states complete the Single Market? When will they end closed shops and protectionism, and open their markets to British services – especially our professional services? When will they fully integrate capital markets? Or the energy market? Or digital? Need I go on? If these had been implemented in full, then Britain’s case on free movement would be weakened. But they are not.”

    Cameron mustn't back down on this. His office has floated a strong option of a points system, and a weak option of an emergency brake, and says they'll release proposals by the end of the year. If this turns out to be another "we will not let matters rest there" like the fiasco in response to the Lisbon Treaty, then Cameron really will be selling out the British people for no good reason. We pay for a tenth of the EU budget, so we should have leverage. If the EU refuses it will be only out of pure obstinacy in refusing the UK's concerns. Cameron can not back down purely because the other nations are pig-headed.

    I agree with Major, and Socrates, on all of this.

    Are there any Tories who don't?

    Ken Clarke?

    I'd be interested to see Richard Nabavi's response to it
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    AndyJS said:

    We will lose Rochester and Strood byelection, admits senior Conservative

    Tory cabinet source says Ukip will win and the Conservative party’s best hope is to ‘keep defeat to single digits’

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/15/rochester-strood-ukip-conservatives-admit-defeat

    I'm sure Tories in Rochester are over the moon about this. Just what they need to encourage the footsoldiers to get out the vote on Thursday.
    Some senior Tory MPs should be taken aside by the PM and Chief Whip and told to shut the fcuk up and concentrate on helping the party win a majority in May. Party workers get really sick of self-indulgent MPs who undo much of their hard work.
    So which self-indulgent MPs did you get sick of?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    chestnut said:

    AndyJS said:



    I'm sure Tories in Rochester are over the moon about this. Just what they need to encourage the footsoldiers to get out the vote on Thursday.


    "Our vote is holding up OK. We are at 30%, maybe even 33%. It is not bad. Ukip are in the 40s. But Labour have absolutely capitulated and collapsed in a seat that they held until 2010. There are at least as many questions for Ed Miliband as for us. We are fairly relaxed about the whole thing, as I think it is priced in at this stage"

    Imagine a UKIP win by 40-35, which is conceivable, but Labour on 15 or so.

    That would have been the result IMO if the Tories had selected a better candidate (nothing to do with her being a woman, by the way). It'll be at least 45-32 I think.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,403

    We will lose Rochester and Strood byelection, admits senior Conservative

    Tory cabinet source says Ukip will win and the Conservative party’s best hope is to ‘keep defeat to single digits’

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/15/rochester-strood-ukip-conservatives-admit-defeat

    As long as they keep it to 4.2% give or take 0.04% something will have been achieved.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    We will lose Rochester and Strood byelection, admits senior Conservative

    Tory cabinet source says Ukip will win and the Conservative party’s best hope is to ‘keep defeat to single digits’

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/15/rochester-strood-ukip-conservatives-admit-defeat

    I'm sure Tories in Rochester are over the moon about this. Just what they need to encourage the footsoldiers to get out the vote on Thursday.
    Some senior Tory MPs should be taken aside by the PM and Chief Whip and told to shut the fcuk up and concentrate on helping the party win a majority in May. Party workers get really sick of self-indulgent MPs who undo much of their hard work.
    It's interesting IMO how the Tories managed to convince themselves, while ensconsed in Birmingham bars, that they would win in Rochester - seemingly without any supporting evidence whatsoever.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    We will lose Rochester and Strood byelection, admits senior Conservative

    Tory cabinet source says Ukip will win and the Conservative party’s best hope is to ‘keep defeat to single digits’

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/15/rochester-strood-ukip-conservatives-admit-defeat

    I'm sure Tories in Rochester are over the moon about this. Just what they need to encourage the footsoldiers to get out the vote on Thursday.
    Some senior Tory MPs should be taken aside by the PM and Chief Whip and told to shut the fcuk up and concentrate on helping the party win a majority in May. Party workers get really sick of self-indulgent MPs who undo much of their hard work.
    So which self-indulgent MPs did you get sick of?
    Speedy as you are no Tory, the last thing I am going to do is share such information with you. Let's just say that in 40 years there have been a fair few.
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    Socrates said:

    Except that the majority of EU institutions were not created until after 1973.

    Which institutions are you referring to? It is indeed an outrage that thus far there has been no British President of the European Central Bank.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    We will lose Rochester and Strood byelection, admits senior Conservative

    Tory cabinet source says Ukip will win and the Conservative party’s best hope is to ‘keep defeat to single digits’

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/15/rochester-strood-ukip-conservatives-admit-defeat

    I'm sure Tories in Rochester are over the moon about this. Just what they need to encourage the footsoldiers to get out the vote on Thursday.
    True, a Tory capitulation might impact the result, though only marginally. The hit on turnout might be bigger.

    Looking at turnout, the weather in Rochester looks to be clear on Thursday, temperature around 10 degrees with a southern wind.
    Although I'm interested in the weather on polling day, I'm not sure there has ever been any research showing that weather conditions have any impact at all on voters' propensity to vote.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Well I leave you tonight with Rand Paul trying to juggle climate change to get the green vote while not losing the Tea party vote for the 2016 race:
    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/224285-rand-paul-may-get-bill-mahers-vote

    He came out good.
    Goodnight.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    ComRes 15 November 2013: Con 29%, Lab 35%, LD 10%, UKIP 17%

    ComRes 15 December 2012: Con 28%, Lab 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 14%

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#2013
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    Socrates said:

    ConservativeHome quotes John Major's very good point on UK renegotiation of EU immigration:

    “I hear it said by eminent Europeans that freedom of movement is sacrosanct. It is one of the four freedoms set out in the founding Treaty. The argument is that if we tamper with freedom of movement, the other freedoms will fall. I understand that view but it has a flaw. Twenty five years after the Single European Act, the other founding freedoms are not fully honoured by the EU. Not one of them. If freedom of movement is immutable, when will member states complete the Single Market? When will they end closed shops and protectionism, and open their markets to British services – especially our professional services? When will they fully integrate capital markets? Or the energy market? Or digital? Need I go on? If these had been implemented in full, then Britain’s case on free movement would be weakened. But they are not.”

    Cameron mustn't back down on this. His office has floated a strong option of a points system, and a weak option of an emergency brake, and says they'll release proposals by the end of the year. If this turns out to be another "we will not let matters rest there" like the fiasco in response to the Lisbon Treaty, then Cameron really will be selling out the British people for no good reason. We pay for a tenth of the EU budget, so we should have leverage. If the EU refuses it will be only out of pure obstinacy in refusing the UK's concerns. Cameron can not back down purely because the other nations are pig-headed.

    I agree with Major, and Socrates, on all of this.

    Are there any Tories who don't?
    Why aren't Tories agreeing with me on this?

    I can understand why they wouldn't want to agree with Socrates, as he's a kipper and we've an election against them this week, but what John Major's saying is surely spot on.

    Or if not, why not?
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited November 2014
    Yougov

    LAB - 33% (+1)
    CON - 31% (-2)
    UKIP - 18% (+3)
    LDEM - 7% (-1)
    GRN - 5% (-1)
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    chestnut said:

    LAB - 33% (+1)
    CON - 31% (-2)
    UKIP - 18% (+3)
    LDEM - 7% (-1)
    GRN - 5% (-1)

    YouGov?
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2014

    chestnut said:

    LAB - 33% (+1)
    CON - 31% (-2)
    UKIP - 18% (+3)
    LDEM - 7% (-1)
    GRN - 5% (-1)

    YouGov?
    Yeap yougov.
    A 2 point lead for Labour and UKIP looking high for the weekend.
    Goodnight.
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    saddosaddo Posts: 534
    Praise the pollster. Ed is saved tonight. His speech has awoken the nation from its false consciousness. We are all Socialists. Sports Direct will cease trading next week after a week of zero zero sales as we all move our sporting purchases to Intersport.

    20000 happy comrades will rejoice as they are freed from wage slavery of the evil Mike Ashley and live a life of freedom on the state.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    YouGov?

    Yes.

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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251

    AndyJS said:

    We will lose Rochester and Strood byelection, admits senior Conservative

    Tory cabinet source says Ukip will win and the Conservative party’s best hope is to ‘keep defeat to single digits’

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/15/rochester-strood-ukip-conservatives-admit-defeat

    I'm sure Tories in Rochester are over the moon about this. Just what they need to encourage the footsoldiers to get out the vote on Thursday.
    Some senior Tory MPs should be taken aside by the PM and Chief Whip and told to shut the fcuk up and concentrate on helping the party win a majority in May. Party workers get really sick of self-indulgent MPs who undo much of their hard work.
    Couldn't agree more. Trouble is these days even cabinet ministers can't keep their traps shut. Expectations management should be left until after the polls close and before the delaration. Incidentally I'm still confident the Ukip maj will be less than 10% as unlike Andy I think Tolhurst is actually gaining some traction in boosting the Tory vote at the margins. I know in a way it's cheapskate to blame Labour but this afternoon on Rochester High Street there was no evidence of them at all whereas Ukipers in particular and Tories were out and about. Labour had no posters, stickers, party workers although it is possible a few might have been on the anti fascist march - basically for tactical reasons they are happy to let Ukip mop up their vote so as to inflict maximum damage on the Tories.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    18% is good for UKIP with YouGov.
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    @NickPalmer‌

    What's your opinion on zero hours contracts, given that they're used by your party?

    Do you think they're bad, and so your party is also bad?

    Do you think they're ok, so your leader is wrong?

    Or do you have a third way of explaining it, such as you think they're bad but your party can be exempted in some way, so that you can continue to cling to your extremely shaky looking principles?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    We will lose Rochester and Strood byelection, admits senior Conservative

    Tory cabinet source says Ukip will win and the Conservative party’s best hope is to ‘keep defeat to single digits’

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/15/rochester-strood-ukip-conservatives-admit-defeat

    I'm sure Tories in Rochester are over the moon about this. Just what they need to encourage the footsoldiers to get out the vote on Thursday.
    Some senior Tory MPs should be taken aside by the PM and Chief Whip and told to shut the fcuk up and concentrate on helping the party win a majority in May. Party workers get really sick of self-indulgent MPs who undo much of their hard work.
    So which self-indulgent MPs did you get sick of?
    Speedy as you are no Tory, the last thing I am going to do is share such information with you. Let's just say that in 40 years there have been a fair few.
    Which party do you support Easterross? Sorry, I ought to know by know.
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    Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 45s45 seconds ago

    Miliband bounce back in YouGov poll tonight for Sunday Times. Labour leads 33-30.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,019
    I note the discussion below concerning the UK census. The discussion was between MarkSenior, Swiss_Bob, kle4, foxinsoxuk, Paul_Mid_Beds and it is difficult to tell who said what, but the gist was:

    "...bearing in mind there's no census anymore and people were not required to complete the last one and didn't in large numbers....Now I'm using your 2010 census figure, one known to be inaccurate. This leads to one wondering why the UK Govt doesn't want an accurate population figure...published numbers by supermarkets and utility providers have estimated the current UK population somewhere between 70-80 million"

    This paragraph contains many misapprehensions. Dealing with them requires more than one post, so I'll spread this response over several posts. So let's start...
This discussion has been closed.