Luckyguy1983/bigjohnowls Cameron and Osborne did the best they could, if some in the EU want to continue to put British voters' backs up that is their affair, the fastest growing nations in the EU are the UK and Sweden, both outside the euro, the EU needs the UK
I dont disagree that Cameron and Osborne did the best they could with deferring payment but the lie about halving the bill has unravelled, completely.
The electorate will not be fooled IMO
To be fair to Cameron and Osborne I think they were in a pretty impossible position.
But a defeat is still a defeat not a victory.
Sometimes its better to admit the impossibility of your position rather than lying about it and consequently casting doubt on everything you've said on other occasions and on other issues.
There are 4 political parties angling for superiority. Two are in coalition abd actually dealing with the issues. Just why should we believe that the other two would be magnanimous about a good deal or be honest about representing the truth. They have constantly screamed blue murder about 1.7 billion. We are paying half that. Now we are expected to blame the govt?? When, just when, did Labour or UKIP ever say that the net figure was 'only' £850 million?
"When, just when, did Labour or UKIP ever say that the net figure was 'only' £850 million?"
When did Cammo and Gids say that the net figure was 'only' £850 million? They never did and it's the old 3 shell game the Tories are playing. Well most people can see the pea and so see what liars they are. The other EU heads of state are RITILOL.
Aw man, they're bored with the Ed stories already? Come on Labour rebels, you've got to give the media to feed upon before they can become self sustaining on this sort of thing, Tory rebels know that and gave everyone plenty to chew on long ago, to much entertainment. You owe us.
This is the first time tonight that you have accepted that Cameron will pay the full amount and he's trying to mask it behind the rebate, which was Thatcher's victory not Osborne's.
He will pay the full amount, £850m. Not the £1.7bn which UKIP, Labour, the EU, and the media said was the full amount, until today.
He will pay the full amount 1.7 billion, he's trying to mask it with the rebate but doesn't fool anyone.
The cheque will read £850 million. How does that relate to paying £1.7 billion? When did anyone make clear there would be a rebate on this exceptional one off backdated payment?
The other point is that in the circumstances of the UN inspired and agreed accountancy changes and the EU deal agreed in 2000 by the then Labour govt the payment is not unreasonable. We now have a fair and reasonable implimentation.
The real problem has got lost in all this. Just how reliable are all these speculative assumptions on the black economy and are there standard ways to asses them? We base our EU payments on these somewhat fictional figures. It all sounds pretty shaky to me
Totally O/t. Two men, (neither of them Asian), have been been found guilty of sexually exploiting "vulnerable" girls in Essex, making them engage in sexual acts in return for drugs and alcohol.
This EU budget issue illustrates a wider point to me.
Almost everyone (supporters of all parties) is really only interested in partisan knockabout. Almost nobody (again all parties) is remotely close to the detail of the issue.
I suspect everyone's reaction would be identical if we were being asked to pay another £5 billion or £500 million (pre or post rebate). Almost nobody actually cares about the amount. Everyone is simply concerned with partisan knockabout.
And of course almost nobody is close enough to the numbers to have any proper understanding of the amount's significance / materiality to the nation's public finances. And in turn almost nobody cares about that anyway.
The deal is due to be finalised later this month or next. On the phone from Brussels, a commission aide told me that Osborne will
‘pay first and then get the rebate.’
This implies that Osborne will, despite his protestations, pay the full £1.7 billion – albeit with a refund to follow shortly, which Britain was always likely to receive.
Speaking on his LBC phone-in, Mr Farage said: 'We're not invited and I could say to you that personally I would like to be because this is a subject that I care very deeply about.
'But what I think is, the whole point about political representation at the Cenotaph is it's not the politician that matters, it's the voters behind the politician that matter. How dare Nigel Farage make the day of remembrance and the laying of wreaths all about him? Senior government source
'And in the last national election Ukip got 4.4 million votes and none of those people are being represented on Sunday despite the fact there are political parties with far smaller votes than that being represented.'
He added: 'Whether it's me or somebody else doesn't really matter. But I do think that we won the last election we should have had some representation on Sunday. And I think it's actually quite a snub to all the millions of people that have voted Ukip.'
Mr Farage said it was for the Government to invite him 'but I'm afraid with this as with everything else, British politics operates like a closed shop and they don't' want anyone new to get involved'.
The ironic thing is the article claims that 6 MPs are a pre-requisite for attendance yet Plaid attended in 2010 when they had only three MPs. It seems like so many other things in the.political class you have to know the right people..........
This EU budget issue illustrates a wider point to me.
Almost everyone (supporters of all parties) is really only interested in partisan knockabout. Almost nobody (again all parties) is remotely close to the detail of the issue.
I suspect everyone's reaction would be identical if we were being asked to pay another £5 billion or £500 million (pre or post rebate). Almost nobody actually cares about the amount. Everyone is simply concerned with partisan knockabout.
And of course almost nobody is close enough to the numbers to have any proper understanding of the amount's significance / materiality to the nation's public finances. And in turn almost nobody cares about that anyway.
Absolutely wrong @MikeL. I for one begrudge even one penny to the EU; besides I could do with a couple of million myself.
The BBC make it quite clear what smoke and mirrors it is in the content of their story, but they're being extraordinarily generous to the government in the headline and conclusion, saying "it depends on your point of view" whether paying exactly the same amount at a different time is a reduction or not. They're showing their Europhilia I think: trying to calm the growing euroscepticism of the country.
Sky, the FT, Bloomberg, the Guardian, the Times are not being so generous.
... No other Country is being asked for more, which would of course be the case if there was a genuine reduction in the UK bill. ...
It would mean other countries receiving less not having to pay more wouldn't it?
This EU budget issue illustrates a wider point to me.
Almost everyone (supporters of all parties) is really only interested in partisan knockabout. Almost nobody (again all parties) is remotely close to the detail of the issue.
I suspect everyone's reaction would be identical if we were being asked to pay another £5 billion or £500 million (pre or post rebate). Almost nobody actually cares about the amount. Everyone is simply concerned with partisan knockabout.
And of course almost nobody is close enough to the numbers to have any proper understanding of the amount's significance / materiality to the nation's public finances. And in turn almost nobody cares about that anyway.
Absolutely wrong @MikeL. I for one begrudge even one penny to the EU; besides I could do with a couple of million myself.
So your reaction would have been different if it had been £500m or £5bn?
Totally O/t. Two men, (neither of them Asian), have been been found guilty of sexually exploiting "vulnerable" girls in Essex, making them engage in sexual acts in return for drugs and alcohol.
Quote from current BBC Essex page.
They're being sentenced "later".
Just saying.
The point never was that this behaviour is unique to Asian men, certainly I never said that. It was that the councils covered it up because it was Asian men
PB Moderator
I can't, of course, comment on this post, but I do ask where my promised e-mail from Mike is.
Totally O/t. Two men, (neither of them Asian), have been been found guilty of sexually exploiting "vulnerable" girls in Essex, making them engage in sexual acts in return for drugs and alcohol.
Quote from current BBC Essex page.
They're being sentenced "later".
Just saying.
The point never was that this behaviour is unique to Asian men, certainly I never said that. It was that the councils covered it up because it was Asian men
PB Moderator
I can't, of course, comment on this post, but I do ask where my promised e-mail from Mike is.
Socrates, have you received yours?
Didn't get one. Why should I expect one?
PBModerator Posts: 529 October 14 Socrates - No, that comment regarding you is not acceptable.
I'll be asking Mike to email some people in the next few days on this topic.
MikeSmithson said: Interesting CON attack on Mark Reckless Is it an 'attack' when it is pointed out that Mark Reckless was previously supporting building on the site and apparently is now against building on the site? He has the opportunity to say that when the facts change he changes his mind. But have the facts changed - are the nightingales no longer on the site?
Reckless does have a history of doing the opposite what he promised the day before. Now most people can be a bit economical with the truth, but Reckless is more brazen than most. Or maybe he just forgets what he said a few days earlier? It could be a new disability?
A devastating critique from Mr Smithson. But UKIP are incredibly thin skinned. They like to dish it out with brutal ads themselves and are very free with casual smears and misrepresentations but oh dear me anyone criticism Nigel or one of his acolytes and there are howls of anguish.
This EU budget issue illustrates a wider point to me.
Almost everyone (supporters of all parties) is really only interested in partisan knockabout. Almost nobody (again all parties) is remotely close to the detail of the issue.
I suspect everyone's reaction would be identical if we were being asked to pay another £5 billion or £500 million (pre or post rebate). Almost nobody actually cares about the amount. Everyone is simply concerned with partisan knockabout.
And of course almost nobody is close enough to the numbers to have any proper understanding of the amount's significance / materiality to the nation's public finances. And in turn almost nobody cares about that anyway.
Absolutely wrong @MikeL. I for one begrudge even one penny to the EU; besides I could do with a couple of million myself.
So your reaction would have been different if it had been £500m or £5bn?
West Ham v Villa - both teams to score and West Ham to win is a reasonable double. Watch for Nolan to be named as sub alongside Carroll, then to score any-time.
The rebate being deducted off isn't the rebate off just this payment: it's obviously too high for that because the rebate is a lot less than half of our gross contribution. The rebate is €4 billion off a gross contribution of €17 billion. The rebate payment being deducted off it is part of the UK's general rebate payment off our overall contribution.
The rebate is [roughly*] half of our net contribution.
Since this extra payment by Britain does not increase the EU budget (all the money we, the Netherlands, Greece, etc pay in as part of this adjustment is paid out to other EU states) then it is reasonable to assume that we won't receive any extra EU funding, and so the net position of our contribution to the EU will change by the gross amount of the payment - and so you can reasonably apply the rebate to the gross amount of this payment.
* The rebate was two-thirds, but was then reduced by 20%, so is now 53.3%, I think.
You're incorrect. The rebate is only €4bn. Page 10 here:
I don't fully understand the details of the UK rebate - as set out on page 33 of the report you link me to - but I can see that it is a lot more complicated than comparing the figure for the rebate in one year with the net contribution in the same year.
I think I'm roughly right - but there are lots of details that make it hard for me to check.
The rebate is calculated as approximately 2/3rds of the difference between the gross and net amounts Britain pays to the EU. This is why the rebate is always calculated in arrears because no one is quite sure until after the event what the basis for the calculation will be given that it depends on how much money comes back to the UK.
MikeSmithson said: Interesting CON attack on Mark Reckless Is it an 'attack' when it is pointed out that Mark Reckless was previously supporting building on the site and apparently is now against building on the site? He has the opportunity to say that when the facts change he changes his mind. But have the facts changed - are the nightingales no longer on the site?
Reckless does have a history of doing the opposite what he promised the day before. Now most people can be a bit economical with the truth, but Reckless is more brazen than most. Or maybe he just forgets what he said a few days earlier? It could be a new disability?
A devastating critique from Mr Smithson. But UKIP are incredibly thin skinned. They like to dish it out with brutal ads themselves and are very free with casual smears and misrepresentations but oh dear me anyone criticism Nigel or one of his acolytes and there are howls of anguish.
Do you take something to induce your delusions or do they come naturally?
The rebate being deducted off isn't the rebate off just this payment: it's obviously too high for that because the rebate is a lot less than half of our gross contribution. The rebate is €4 billion off a gross contribution of €17 billion. The rebate payment being deducted off it is part of the UK's general rebate payment off our overall contribution.
The rebate is [roughly*] half of our net contribution.
Since this extra payment by Britain does not increase the EU budget (all the money we, the Netherlands, Greece, etc pay in as part of this adjustment is paid out to other EU states) then it is reasonable to assume that we won't receive any extra EU funding, and so the net position of our contribution to the EU will change by the gross amount of the payment - and so you can reasonably apply the rebate to the gross amount of this payment.
* The rebate was two-thirds, but was then reduced by 20%, so is now 53.3%, I think.
You're incorrect. The rebate is only €4bn. Page 10 here:
I don't fully understand the details of the UK rebate - as set out on page 33 of the report you link me to - but I can see that it is a lot more complicated than comparing the figure for the rebate in one year with the net contribution in the same year.
I think I'm roughly right - but there are lots of details that make it hard for me to check.
The rebate is calculated as approximately 2/3rds of the difference between the gross and net amounts Britain pays to the EU. This is why the rebate is always calculated in arrears because no one is quite sure until after the event what the basis for the calculation will be given that it depends on how much money comes back to the UK.
MikeSmithson said: Interesting CON attack on Mark Reckless Is it an 'attack' when it is pointed out that Mark Reckless was previously supporting building on the site and apparently is now against building on the site? He has the opportunity to say that when the facts change he changes his mind. But have the facts changed - are the nightingales no longer on the site?
Reckless does have a history of doing the opposite what he promised the day before. Now most people can be a bit economical with the truth, but Reckless is more brazen than most. Or maybe he just forgets what he said a few days earlier? It could be a new disability?
A devastating critique from Mr Smithson. But UKIP are incredibly thin skinned. They like to dish it out with brutal ads themselves and are very free with casual smears and misrepresentations but oh dear me anyone criticism Nigel or one of his acolytes and there are howls of anguish.
Do you take something to induce your delusions or do they come naturally?
I've been having great fun reading through the last couple of threads, and the desperate attempts of our resident ultra-Tory loyalists to defend the smoke and mirrors of the near perfect chancellor.
Dan Hannan says it how it is, and now his fellow Conservatives are telling him to go and join UKIP.
I think another Richard is correct. Cameron and Osborne were handed a problem by the previous government they could do nothing about.
We have to pay more overseas aid to the EU. We're stuck with paying them ever increasing amounts of overseas aid so long as we're a member of this hideous organisation.
MikeSmithson said: Interesting CON attack on Mark Reckless Is it an 'attack' when it is pointed out that Mark Reckless was previously supporting building on the site and apparently is now against building on the site? He has the opportunity to say that when the facts change he changes his mind. But have the facts changed - are the nightingales no longer on the site?
Reckless does have a history of doing the opposite what he promised the day before. Now most people can be a bit economical with the truth, but Reckless is more brazen than most. Or maybe he just forgets what he said a few days earlier? It could be a new disability?
A devastating critique from Mr Smithson. But UKIP are incredibly thin skinned. They like to dish it out with brutal ads themselves and are very free with casual smears and misrepresentations but oh dear me anyone criticism Nigel or one of his acolytes and there are howls of anguish.
Tell me one Tory poster on here who is as critical of Cameron or attacks him as much as I do Farage?
Only tonight both Socrates and I have criticised Farage over his support of the marine who murdered a prisoner. I and other UKIP members have made clear our dissatisfaction with him as a leader. But anyone who dares to criticise Cameron is attacked by all the Tory loyalists who get more desperate by the week in their defence of the indefensible.
All credit to the Labour posters on here like Ben M. I may not agree at all with their politics but again they are more than willing to criticise Miliband where they feel it is justified.
I am afraid the one party that stands out head and shoulders clear of the rest in their blind sycophantic protection off their leader are the Tories.
Totally O/t. Two men, (neither of them Asian), have been been found guilty of sexually exploiting "vulnerable" girls in Essex, making them engage in sexual acts in return for drugs and alcohol.
Quote from current BBC Essex page.
They're being sentenced "later".
Just saying.
The point never was that this behaviour is unique to Asian men, certainly I never said that. It was that the councils covered it up because it was Asian men
PB Moderator
I can't, of course, comment on this post, but I do ask where my promised e-mail from Mike is.
Totally O/t. Two men, (neither of them Asian), have been been found guilty of sexually exploiting "vulnerable" girls in Essex, making them engage in sexual acts in return for drugs and alcohol.
Quote from current BBC Essex page.
They're being sentenced "later".
Just saying.
The point never was that this behaviour is unique to Asian men, certainly I never said that. It was that the councils covered it up because it was Asian men
PB Moderator
I can't, of course, comment on this post, but I do ask where my promised e-mail from Mike is.
Socrates, have you received yours?
Didn't get one. Why should I expect one?
PBModerator Posts: 529 October 14 Socrates - No, that comment regarding you is not acceptable.
I'll be asking Mike to email some people in the next few days on this topic.
I presume he was emailing the poster who was being abusive about me, rather than me.
Cameron and Osborne caught telling porkies again. Not a surprise. Just add it to the list.
“Compared to a situation where the Commission was not going to table a new proposal, of course this is a victory for the UK…Given the amounts, I can understand that one wants to discuss both transparency and the calculations.” Swedish Finance Minister
The German Finance Minister did not want to talk about it at all. Its in none of their interests to talk up the result for the UK since it puts them in a bad light at home. They are all going out of their way to talk round the issue and be as obscure as possible.
MikeSmithson said: Interesting CON attack on Mark Reckless Is it an 'attack' when it is pointed out that Mark Reckless was previously supporting building on the site and apparently is now against building on the site? He has the opportunity to say that when the facts change he changes his mind. But have the facts changed - are the nightingales no longer on the site?
Reckless does have a history of doing the opposite what he promised the day before. Now most people can be a bit economical with the truth, but Reckless is more brazen than most. Or maybe he just forgets what he said a few days earlier? It could be a new disability?
A devastating critique from Mr Smithson. But UKIP are incredibly thin skinned. They like to dish it out with brutal ads themselves and are very free with casual smears and misrepresentations but oh dear me anyone criticism Nigel or one of his acolytes and there are howls of anguish.
Do you take something to induce your delusions or do they come naturally?
Can anyone advise on betting opportunities with tomorrow's Premiership matches?
I've gone for several draws on my coupon. Liverpool , Soton, Hammers and Hull games.
Thanks. I know almost nothing about football but was impressed by the amount of money it was possible to make during the World Cup by backing the outsider and then cashing out if they went ahead first.
I've been having great fun reading through the last couple of threads, and the desperate attempts of our resident ultra-Tory loyalists to defend the smoke and mirrors of the near perfect chancellor.
Dan Hannan says it how it is, and now his fellow Conservatives are telling him to go and join UKIP.
MikeSmithson said: Interesting CON attack on Mark Reckless Is it an 'attack' when it is pointed out that Mark Reckless was previously supporting building on the site and apparently is now against building on the site? He has the opportunity to say that when the facts change he changes his mind. But have the facts changed - are the nightingales no longer on the site?
Reckless does have a history of doing the opposite what he promised the day before. Now most people can be a bit economical with the truth, but Reckless is more brazen than most. Or maybe he just forgets what he said a few days earlier? It could be a new disability?
A devastating critique from Mr Smithson. But UKIP are incredibly thin skinned. They like to dish it out with brutal ads themselves and are very free with casual smears and misrepresentations but oh dear me anyone criticism Nigel or one of his acolytes and there are howls of anguish.
Tell me one Tory poster on here who is as critical of Cameron or attacks him as much as I do Farage?
Only tonight both Socrates and I have criticised Farage over his support of the marine who murdered a prisoner. I and other UKIP members have made clear our dissatisfaction with him as a leader. But anyone who dares to criticise Cameron is attacked by all the Tory loyalists who get more desperate by the week in their defence of the indefensible.
All credit to the Labour posters on here like Ben M. I may not agree at all with their politics but again they are more than willing to criticise Miliband where they feel it is justified.
I am afraid the one party that stands out head and shoulders clear of the rest in their blind sycophantic protection off their leader are the Tories.
I've been having great fun reading through the last couple of threads, and the desperate attempts of our resident ultra-Tory loyalists to defend the smoke and mirrors of the near perfect chancellor.
Dan Hannan says it how it is, and now his fellow Conservatives are telling him to go and join UKIP.
What will they do when we've all joined UKIP?
Lie and tell us only half have as half have promised to return after GE2015?
MikeSmithson said: Interesting CON attack on Mark Reckless Is it an 'attack' when it is pointed out that Mark Reckless was previously supporting building on the site and apparently is now against building on the site? He has the opportunity to say that when the facts change he changes his mind. But have the facts changed - are the nightingales no longer on the site?
Reckless does have a history of doing the opposite what he promised the day before. Now most people can be a bit economical with the truth, but Reckless is more brazen than most. Or maybe he just forgets what he said a few days earlier? It could be a new disability?
A devastating critique from Mr Smithson. But UKIP are incredibly thin skinned. They like to dish it out with brutal ads themselves and are very free with casual smears and misrepresentations but oh dear me anyone criticism Nigel or one of his acolytes and there are howls of anguish.
Tell me one Tory poster on here who is as critical of Cameron or attacks him as much as I do Farage?
Only tonight both Socrates and I have criticised Farage over his support of the marine who murdered a prisoner. I and other UKIP members have made clear our dissatisfaction with him as a leader. But anyone who dares to criticise Cameron is attacked by all the Tory loyalists who get more desperate by the week in their defence of the indefensible.
All credit to the Labour posters on here like Ben M. I may not agree at all with their politics but again they are more than willing to criticise Miliband where they feel it is justified.
I am afraid the one party that stands out head and shoulders clear of the rest in their blind sycophantic protection off their leader are the Tories.
Are you sure you don't mean the SNP?
They do rather seem to have disappeared by and large so I think the Tories still take top spot on that one.
Totally O/t. Two men, (neither of them Asian), have been been found guilty of sexually exploiting "vulnerable" girls in Essex, making them engage in sexual acts in return for drugs and alcohol.
Quote from current BBC Essex page.
They're being sentenced "later".
Just saying.
The point never was that this behaviour is unique to Asian men, certainly I never said that. It was that the councils covered it up because it was Asian men
PB Moderator
I can't, of course, comment on this post, but I do ask where my promised e-mail from Mike is.
Totally O/t. Two men, (neither of them Asian), have been been found guilty of sexually exploiting "vulnerable" girls in Essex, making them engage in sexual acts in return for drugs and alcohol.
Quote from current BBC Essex page.
They're being sentenced "later".
Just saying.
The point never was that this behaviour is unique to Asian men, certainly I never said that. It was that the councils covered it up because it was Asian men
PB Moderator
I can't, of course, comment on this post, but I do ask where my promised e-mail from Mike is.
Socrates, have you received yours?
Didn't get one. Why should I expect one?
PBModerator Posts: 529 October 14 Socrates - No, that comment regarding you is not acceptable.
I'll be asking Mike to email some people in the next few days on this topic.
I presume he was emailing the poster who was being abusive about me, rather than me.
Perhaps, but I was expecting to be e-mailed over the issue.
Speaking on his LBC phone-in, Mr Farage said: 'We're not invited and I could say to you that personally I would like to be because this is a subject that I care very deeply about.
'But what I think is, the whole point about political representation at the Cenotaph is it's not the politician that matters, it's the voters behind the politician that matter. How dare Nigel Farage make the day of remembrance and the laying of wreaths all about him? Senior government source
'And in the last national election Ukip got 4.4 million votes and none of those people are being represented on Sunday despite the fact there are political parties with far smaller votes than that being represented.'
He added: 'Whether it's me or somebody else doesn't really matter. But I do think that we won the last election we should have had some representation on Sunday. And I think it's actually quite a snub to all the millions of people that have voted Ukip.'
Mr Farage said it was for the Government to invite him 'but I'm afraid with this as with everything else, British politics operates like a closed shop and they don't' want anyone new to get involved'.
The ironic thing is the article claims that 6 MPs are a pre-requisite for attendance yet Plaid attended in 2010 when they had only three MPs. It seems like so many other things in the.political class you have to know the right people..........
Reports that Farage demanded a spot at the Cenotaph on Sunday.
What a ****
Surely Carswell should get the Kipper spot ?
Farage was on TV the other day (loudly shouting about what he and everyone at the time were calling a £1.7 billion payment). He was waring a poppy the size of which Coco the Clown would have been proud of (or Barbara Cartland). I'm surprised it did not squirt water.
Then of all the people visiting the Tower of London display - who was the only one who welled up with tears before a convenient camera?
Then he says people should be able to sell them - the Tower poppies - on ebay for £65 and £10 postage (ebay objected to the profiteering). That really makes me want to weep. It comes to something when the people who run ebay are less crass than Farage .
Matthew Parris claiming Ed's problem is that Labour has no place in the modern World
The product here is a left-of-centre political party, financed by a withering 20th-century trade union movement, in an anxious age of financial austerity, and near-universal public distrust of the efficacy of government spending.
Such is the Labour party, almost any conceivable Labour party. There’s nothing big it can say that could be said by something calling itself the Labour party. Ed Miliband is the symptom, not the problem.
And apparently David Miliband is poised to return at the drop of a hat were the right circumstances to arise
Earlier this year, a friend revealed that Mr Miliband still paid close attention to British politics, right down to the fine details: “He knows far too much about canvass returns in Stevenage than he should.”
There are plenty of his old team who would rally to his side on any return to British politics, not least those MPs who voted for him in greater numbers than for his brother.
Speaking on his LBC phone-in, Mr Farage said: 'We're not invited and I could say to you that personally I would like to be because this is a subject that I care very deeply about.
'But what I think is, the whole point about political representation at the Cenotaph is it's not the politician that matters, it's the voters behind the politician that matter. How dare Nigel Farage make the day of remembrance and the laying of wreaths all about him? Senior government source
'And in the last national election Ukip got 4.4 million votes and none of those people are being represented on Sunday despite the fact there are political parties with far smaller votes than that being represented.'
He added: 'Whether it's me or somebody else doesn't really matter. But I do think that we won the last election we should have had some representation on Sunday. And I think it's actually quite a snub to all the millions of people that have voted Ukip.'
Mr Farage said it was for the Government to invite him 'but I'm afraid with this as with everything else, British politics operates like a closed shop and they don't' want anyone new to get involved'.
The ironic thing is the article claims that 6 MPs are a pre-requisite for attendance yet Plaid attended in 2010 when they had only three MPs. It seems like so many other things in the.political class you have to know the right people..........
Reports that Farage demanded a spot at the Cenotaph on Sunday.
What a ****
Surely Carswell should get the Kipper spot ?
Farage was on TV the other day (loudly shouting about what he and everyone at the time were calling a £1.7 billion payment). He was waring a poppy the size of which Coco the Clown would have been proud of (or Barbara Cartland). I'm surprised it did not squirt water.
Then of all the people visiting the Tower of London display - who was the only one who welled up with tears before a convenient camera?
Then he says people should be able to sell them - the Tower poppies - on ebay for £65 and £10 postage (ebay objected to the profiteering). That really makes me want to weep. It comes to something when the people who run ebay are less crass than Farage .
Very pleased to see ebay have made it clear they will not allow the poppies to be sold. And Farage is again completely in the wrong on this.
Edit: The ebay statement.
‘We are not permitting resale of the limited edition Blood Swept Lands and Seas of Red ceramic poppies on eBay. ‘Any listings attempting to sell these items will be cancelled before any sale takes place. ‘Our marketplace is not an appropriate venue for the limited edition ceramic poppies in view of the significance of each individual poppy as a memorial to an individual British military fatality.’
Matthew Parris claiming Ed's problem is that Labour has no place in the modern World
The product here is a left-of-centre political party, financed by a withering 20th-century trade union movement, in an anxious age of financial austerity, and near-universal public distrust of the efficacy of government spending.
Such is the Labour party, almost any conceivable Labour party. There’s nothing big it can say that could be said by something calling itself the Labour party. Ed Miliband is the symptom, not the problem.
And apparently David Miliband is poised to return at the drop of a hat were the right circumstances to arise
Earlier this year, a friend revealed that Mr Miliband still paid close attention to British politics, right down to the fine details: “He knows far too much about canvass returns in Stevenage than he should.”
There are plenty of his old team who would rally to his side on any return to British politics, not least those MPs who voted for him in greater numbers than for his brother.
I suppose it is like the poor souls who wanted to stop clapping after Stalin gave a speech, waiting, and waiting after 10 minutes to see if anyone will move before them.
Reports that Farage demanded a spot at the Cenotaph on Sunday.
What a ****
Surely Carswell should get the Kipper spot ?
Farage was on TV the other day (loudly shouting about what he and everyone at the time were calling a £1.7 billion payment). He was waring a poppy the size of which Coco the Clown would have been proud of (or Barbara Cartland). I'm surprised it did not squirt water.
Then of all the people visiting the Tower of London display - who was the only one who welled up with tears before a convenient camera?
Then he says people should be able to sell them - the Tower poppies - on ebay for £65 and £10 postage (ebay objected to the profiteering). That really makes me want to weep. It comes to something when the people who run ebay are less crass than Farage .
Reports that Farage demanded a spot at the Cenotaph on Sunday.
What a ****
Surely Carswell should get the Kipper spot ?
Farage was on TV the other day (loudly shouting about what he and everyone at the time were calling a £1.7 billion payment). He was waring a poppy the size of which Coco the Clown would have been proud of (or Barbara Cartland). I'm surprised it did not squirt water.
Then of all the people visiting the Tower of London display - who was the only one who welled up with tears before a convenient camera?
Then he says people should be able to sell them - the Tower poppies - on ebay for £65 and £10 postage (ebay objected to the profiteering). That really makes me want to weep. It comes to something when the people who run ebay are less crass than Farage .
Very pleased to see ebay have made it clear they will not allow the poppies to be sold. And Farage is again completely in the wrong on this.
Farage seems incapable of seeing the difference between an individual obtaining a poppy from a special monument and then selling it on, which to be honest is bad enough, and a commercial orgaisation actually being willing to facilitate it.
Frankly he is more than just wrong. It displays an alien thought process.
Reports that Farage demanded a spot at the Cenotaph on Sunday.
What a ****
Surely Carswell should get the Kipper spot ?
Farage was on TV the other day (loudly shouting about what he and everyone at the time were calling a £1.7 billion payment). He was waring a poppy the size of which Coco the Clown would have been proud of (or Barbara Cartland). I'm surprised it did not squirt water.
Then of all the people visiting the Tower of London display - who was the only one who welled up with tears before a convenient camera?
Then he says people should be able to sell them - the Tower poppies - on ebay for £65 and £10 postage (ebay objected to the profiteering). That really makes me want to weep. It comes to something when the people who run ebay are less crass than Farage .
It's still a £1.7 billion payment.
You are talking about 1.7 billion when you should be complaining about Farage justifying £65. Well £75 really. Minus the rebate of nectar points.
David Herdson/TUD The Tories provided confidence and supply to the SNP from 2007-2011 at Holyrood, no reason the SNP could not do the same at Westminster
Matthew Parris claiming Ed's problem is that Labour has no place in the modern World
The product here is a left-of-centre political party, financed by a withering 20th-century trade union movement, in an anxious age of financial austerity, and near-universal public distrust of the efficacy of government spending.
Such is the Labour party, almost any conceivable Labour party. There’s nothing big it can say that could be said by something calling itself the Labour party. Ed Miliband is the symptom, not the problem.
And apparently David Miliband is poised to return at the drop of a hat were the right circumstances to arise
Earlier this year, a friend revealed that Mr Miliband still paid close attention to British politics, right down to the fine details: “He knows far too much about canvass returns in Stevenage than he should.”
There are plenty of his old team who would rally to his side on any return to British politics, not least those MPs who voted for him in greater numbers than for his brother.
Was watching a programme on BBC4, hadn't realised the music for The Star Spangled Banner was taken from a drinking song from Britain, The Anacreontic Song" (or "To Anacreon in Heaven).
Matthew Parris claiming Ed's problem is that Labour has no place in the modern World
The product here is a left-of-centre political party, financed by a withering 20th-century trade union movement, in an anxious age of financial austerity, and near-universal public distrust of the efficacy of government spending.
Such is the Labour party, almost any conceivable Labour party. There’s nothing big it can say that could be said by something calling itself the Labour party. Ed Miliband is the symptom, not the problem.
And apparently David Miliband is poised to return at the drop of a hat were the right circumstances to arise
Earlier this year, a friend revealed that Mr Miliband still paid close attention to British politics, right down to the fine details: “He knows far too much about canvass returns in Stevenage than he should.”
There are plenty of his old team who would rally to his side on any return to British politics, not least those MPs who voted for him in greater numbers than for his brother.
MikeSmithson said: Interesting CON attack on Mark Reckless Is it an 'attack' when it is pointed out that Mark Reckless was previously supporting building on the site and apparently is now against building on the site? He has the opportunity to say that when the facts change he changes his mind. But have the facts changed - are the nightingales no longer on the site?
Reckless does have a history of doing the opposite what he promised the day before. Now most people can be a bit economical with the truth, but Reckless is more brazen than most. Or maybe he just forgets what he said a few days earlier? It could be a new disability?
A devastating critique from Mr Smithson. But UKIP are incredibly thin skinned. They like to dish it out with brutal ads themselves and are very free with casual smears and misrepresentations but oh dear me anyone criticism Nigel or one of his acolytes and there are howls of anguish.
Tell me one Tory poster on here who is as critical of Cameron or attacks him as much as I do Farage?
Only tonight both Socrates and I have criticised Farage over his support of the marine who murdered a prisoner. I and other UKIP members have made clear our dissatisfaction with him as a leader. But anyone who dares to criticise Cameron is attacked by all the Tory loyalists who get more desperate by the week in their defence of the indefensible.
All credit to the Labour posters on here like Ben M. I may not agree at all with their politics but again they are more than willing to criticise Miliband where they feel it is justified.
I am afraid the one party that stands out head and shoulders clear of the rest in their blind sycophantic protection off their leader are the Tories.
As a critic of Cameron and Osborne in particular you will not find one single word of praise on here from me for this "deal". I wait to see the full details and then will decide.
I am shocked at the allegation that Farage has "demanded" a slot at the Remembrance ceremony. I hope the reports are an exageration. Political point scoring on that a few days before is just disgusting. The time to say something would be after it and after a polite confidential request in writing had been made.
I've been having great fun reading through the last couple of threads, and the desperate attempts of our resident ultra-Tory loyalists to defend the smoke and mirrors of the near perfect chancellor.
Dan Hannan says it how it is, and now his fellow Conservatives are telling him to go and join UKIP.
What will they do when we've all joined UKIP?
I certainly feel much closer to joining UKIP after the farce I've witnessed this afternoon. For 20 minutes, I thought Osborne might have secured something concrete.
Why did he bother trying to pull the wool over our eyes? Does he take us all for fools?
It would have been better to tell it how it is, and explain his own disappointment that it couldn't be better, but it was the best deal he could get from the EU. The battle would go on as part of the EU renegotiation etc.
PS. Roger Helmer, Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless were (and are) all close political and personal friends of Dan Hannan. I'm sure he still feels an affinity with them.
Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before he defects. But I think he's staying for the time being because he enjoys being inside the big tent pissing out.
Matthew Parris claiming Ed's problem is that Labour has no place in the modern World
The product here is a left-of-centre political party, financed by a withering 20th-century trade union movement, in an anxious age of financial austerity, and near-universal public distrust of the efficacy of government spending.
Such is the Labour party, almost any conceivable Labour party. There’s nothing big it can say that could be said by something calling itself the Labour party. Ed Miliband is the symptom, not the problem.
And apparently David Miliband is poised to return at the drop of a hat were the right circumstances to arise
Earlier this year, a friend revealed that Mr Miliband still paid close attention to British politics, right down to the fine details: “He knows far too much about canvass returns in Stevenage than he should.”
There are plenty of his old team who would rally to his side on any return to British politics, not least those MPs who voted for him in greater numbers than for his brother.
Its the likes of Matthew Parris that have no place in the 21st Century
The old cleavage between Labour and Conservative, Labour vs Capital has no relevance today. First Past the Post props up this system way past its sell-by date. But it will go. The rise of UKIP shows that democracy is functioning effectively, and a new system is currently emerging.
I see the wife of the 'chair' of the North Shropshire branch of UKIP who also happens to be the secretary, has started a petition for Farage to lay a wreath.
TimB Agree she is likely to lose, but her only chance is her personal record and running as far as possible from Obama and the Democrats in a red state
TimB It was a big GOP night no question, but don't forget even Reagan lost the Senate in the sixth year of his presidency.
Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before he defects. But I think he's staying for the time being because he enjoys being inside the big tent pissing out.
He says, and I believe him, that he is staying because he wants the UK to have an opportunity to leave the EU, and of course because he supports Cameron's position on most other issues.
Matthew Parris claiming Ed's problem is that Labour has no place in the modern World
The product here is a left-of-centre political party, financed by a withering 20th-century trade union movement, in an anxious age of financial austerity, and near-universal public distrust of the efficacy of government spending.
Such is the Labour party, almost any conceivable Labour party. There’s nothing big it can say that could be said by something calling itself the Labour party. Ed Miliband is the symptom, not the problem.
And apparently David Miliband is poised to return at the drop of a hat were the right circumstances to arise
Earlier this year, a friend revealed that Mr Miliband still paid close attention to British politics, right down to the fine details: “He knows far too much about canvass returns in Stevenage than he should.”
There are plenty of his old team who would rally to his side on any return to British politics, not least those MPs who voted for him in greater numbers than for his brother.
Its the likes of Matthew Parris that have no place in the 21st Century
The old cleavage between Labour and Conservative, Labour vs Capital has no relevance today. First Past the Post props up this system way past its sell-by date. But it will go. The rise of UKIP shows that democracy is functioning effectively, and a new system is currently emerging.
MikeSmithson said: Interesting CON attack on Mark Reckless Is it an 'attack' when it is pointed out that Mark Reckless was previously supporting building on the site and apparently is now against building on the site? He has the opportunity to say that when the facts change he changes his mind. But have the facts changed - are the nightingales no longer on the site?
Reckless does have a history of doing the opposite what he promised the day before. Now most people can be a bit economical with the truth, but Reckless is more brazen than most. Or maybe he just forgets what he said a few days earlier? It could be a new disability?
A devastating critique from Mr Smithson. But UKIP are incredibly thin skinned. They like to dish it out with brutal ads themselves and are very free with casual smears and misrepresentations but oh dear me anyone criticism Nigel or one of his acolytes and there are howls of anguish.
Tell me one Tory poster on here who is as critical of Cameron or attacks him as much as I do Farage?
Only tonight both Socrates and I have criticised Farage over his support of the marine who murdered a prisoner. I and other UKIP members have made clear our dissatisfaction with him as a leader. But anyone who dares to criticise Cameron is attacked by all the Tory loyalists who get more desperate by the week in their defence of the indefensible.
All credit to the Labour posters on here like Ben M. I may not agree at all with their politics but again they are more than willing to criticise Miliband where they feel it is justified.
I am afraid the one party that stands out head and shoulders clear of the rest in their blind sycophantic protection off their leader are the Tories.
As a critic of Cameron and Osborne in particular you will not find one single word of praise on here from me for this "deal". I wait to see the full details and then will decide.
I am shocked at the allegation that Farage has "demanded" a slot at the Remembrance ceremony. I hope the reports are an exageration. Political point scoring on that a few days before is just disgusting. The time to say something would be after it and after a polite confidential request in writing had been made.
I doubt you could point to a demand. What you did get was the usual dog whistle.
The Osborne deal looks pretty fair to me and given that not one opposition spokesman or media hack ever assured anybody that the demand was for 'only' £850 mil then I think Osborne is entitled to paint it as he did.
The GOP are still spending big there and she's probably toast after Tuesday's result.
One of the networks looked at all the candidates the Clintons campaigned for - most lost.
This turned out to be a wave election, unexpectedly. 30 states now have Republican governors and more have Republican assemblies.
How much of it will remain standing in 2016 remains to be seen
The GOP will have the House until the next round of redistricting post 2020. That means 2022 before any Democratic President (which I think is likely) will be able to get laws through Congress. Winning the Senate would thus only be useful for a President Clinton to staff the administration and appoint judges. Interesting times.
Four of the local Conservative members who signed my Conservative opponent's nomination papers have now told me they will be voting UKIP 0 replies 157 retweets 113 favorites"
Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before he defects. But I think he's staying for the time being because he enjoys being inside the big tent pissing out.
He says, and I believe him, that he is staying because he wants the UK to have an opportunity to leave the EU, and of course because he supports Cameron's position on most other issues.
I actually know Dan. He is staying because the Conservatives have offered a vote on membership of the EU. I think he also recognises he's the leading Conservative MEP and has a much greater influence and voice making the BOO case from within the party, rather than out.
But he's torn between what he feels is his duty, and his affinity with his friends. He has no love for Cameron. If Cameron reneged or pussyfooted out of it, he would defect very quickly.
TimB Agree she is likely to lose, but her only chance is her personal record and running as far as possible from Obama and the Democrats in a red state
TimB It was a big GOP night no question, but don't forget even Reagan lost the Senate in the sixth year of his presidency.
If she runs on her record she's dead - she supported all the Obama program which is hurting the state.She is chair of the SEnate energy and natural resources committee, so there is nowhere to hide on that.
The GOP are going to tie her to Obama,at least $2.8 million worth. It'll be a long month for LA
S rticle-1329113/Cenotaph-Remembrance-Day-service-Who-stands-where.html
Plaid and the SNP lay a joint wreath, so it's on behalf of 9 MPs.
Farage is riding high on opposing almost anything said or done by the big three, and reminding people as often as possible that despite being professional politicians themselves, UKIP are in a class apart, and he no more wants to be included in the club for the bigger parties than they want him with a seat at the table. That's all well and good, it works well most of the time, but it does mean he will inevitably at times stumble into something where the big parties say things or do things because the public really do support it, or it's just common or decent sense. Crying foul over any little thing has its risks, but the gains have outweighed the negatives for UKIP on that sort of thing, so we should expect plenty more such moments in the coming months.
Anyway, I'm off to bed, so I'd like to remind everyone I support both an EU referendum right away (which I think Out would win) and want UKIP to perform well in the GE, in case anyone gets mad about my surely unique insight that people lose their heads when it comes to UKIP, and that, yes Kippers, that involves their side throwing wobblers when people suggest they can overreact to things or do things for purely partisan strategic purposes.
Night all.
P.S - End of the day on the Osborne stuff, is that it is clear too many people are not buying that we got anything substantive, or feel any amount is too much, so whether that is reasonable or not, like some occasions already this parliament, he and the government will likely take a hit irrespective of whether that is fair or not.
I actually know Dan. He is staying because the Conservatives have offered a vote on membership of the EU. I think he also recognising he's the leading Conservative MEP and has a much greater influence and voice making the BOO from within the party, rather than out.
But he's torn between what he feels is his duty, and his affinity with his friends. He has no love for Cameron. If he reneged, he would defect.
Quite possibly, but there's zero chance of Cameron reneging so that is not an issue.
I've got a lot of time for Dan Hannan. I don't quite share his views, but he argues his position extremely well and IMO is the best advocate of us leaving the EU. I also like the fact that he looks at the big picture of the interests of the country, rather than being motivated by some childish spat with Cameron which seems to be the prime motivation of many of the Kippers.
If he were to defect, the significance would be that he'd given up, that he had concluded there was no hope of us leaving the EU, and that therefore a principled but futile gesture was the only remaining option.
Comments
When did Cammo and Gids say that the net figure was 'only' £850 million? They never did and it's the old 3 shell game the Tories are playing. Well most people can see the pea and so see what liars they are. The other EU heads of state are RITILOL.
First time in 40 years.
Hohoho!
The other point is that in the circumstances of the UN inspired and agreed accountancy changes and the EU deal agreed in 2000 by the then Labour govt the payment is not unreasonable. We now have a fair and reasonable implimentation.
The real problem has got lost in all this. Just how reliable are all these speculative assumptions on the black economy and are there standard ways to asses them? We base our EU payments on these somewhat fictional figures. It all sounds pretty shaky to me
We need you in London on Monday.: http://eepurl.com/7R5Hz
Just saying
Almost everyone (supporters of all parties) is really only interested in partisan knockabout. Almost nobody (again all parties) is remotely close to the detail of the issue.
I suspect everyone's reaction would be identical if we were being asked to pay another £5 billion or £500 million (pre or post rebate). Almost nobody actually cares about the amount. Everyone is simply concerned with partisan knockabout.
And of course almost nobody is close enough to the numbers to have any proper understanding of the amount's significance / materiality to the nation's public finances. And in turn almost nobody cares about that anyway.
The deal is due to be finalised later this month or next. On the phone from Brussels, a commission aide told me that Osborne will
‘pay first and then get the rebate.’
This implies that Osborne will, despite his protestations, pay the full £1.7 billion – albeit with a refund to follow shortly, which Britain was always likely to receive.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/about-that-eu-bill-heres-what-george-osborne-didnt-mention/
'But what I think is, the whole point about political representation at the Cenotaph is it's not the politician that matters, it's the voters behind the politician that matter.
How dare Nigel Farage make the day of remembrance and the laying of wreaths all about him?
Senior government source
'And in the last national election Ukip got 4.4 million votes and none of those people are being represented on Sunday despite the fact there are political parties with far smaller votes than that being represented.'
He added: 'Whether it's me or somebody else doesn't really matter. But I do think that we won the last election we should have had some representation on Sunday. And I think it's actually quite a snub to all the millions of people that have voted Ukip.'
Mr Farage said it was for the Government to invite him 'but I'm afraid with this as with everything else, British politics operates like a closed shop and they don't' want anyone new to get involved'.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2825668/Farage-demands-lay-wreath-Cenotaph-blames-closed-shop-British-politics-snub.html#ixzz3IQDxtnQp
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
The ironic thing is the article claims that 6 MPs are a pre-requisite for attendance yet Plaid attended in 2010 when they had only three MPs. It seems like so many other things in the.political class you have to know the right people..........
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1329113/Cenotaph-Remembrance-Day-service-Who-stands-where.html
October 14
Socrates - No, that comment regarding you is not acceptable.
I'll be asking Mike to email some people in the next few days on this topic.
But UKIP are incredibly thin skinned. They like to dish it out with brutal ads themselves and are very free with casual smears and misrepresentations but oh dear me anyone criticism Nigel or one of his acolytes and there are howls of anguish.
It's the old 3 shell game the Tories are playing, but in this case everyone who cares to look can see the Pea.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/08/world/europe/ed-miliband-labour-party-leader-britain.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0
Remember when immigration figures switched to 'net immigration' to disguise the numbers?
Well, Osborne has switched to 'net contribution' to achieve the same effect.
Not a good sign.
Southampton are scoring freely at home, have only conceded 4 goals in 10 games. Leicester City have only had one clean sheet and one away goal.
I have put some on on one side failing to score at evens with PP, it is very unlikely to be Southampton.
Dan Hannan says it how it is, and now his fellow Conservatives are telling him to go and join UKIP.
We have to pay more overseas aid to the EU. We're stuck with paying them ever increasing amounts of overseas aid so long as we're a member of this hideous organisation.
Only tonight both Socrates and I have criticised Farage over his support of the marine who murdered a prisoner. I and other UKIP members have made clear our dissatisfaction with him as a leader. But anyone who dares to criticise Cameron is attacked by all the Tory loyalists who get more desperate by the week in their defence of the indefensible.
All credit to the Labour posters on here like Ben M. I may not agree at all with their politics but again they are more than willing to criticise Miliband where they feel it is justified.
I am afraid the one party that stands out head and shoulders clear of the rest in their blind sycophantic protection off their leader are the Tories.
Swedish Finance Minister
The German Finance Minister did not want to talk about it at all.
Its in none of their interests to talk up the result for the UK since it puts them in a bad light at home. They are all going out of their way to talk round the issue and be as obscure as possible.
Then of all the people visiting the Tower of London display - who was the only one who welled up with tears before a convenient camera?
Then he says people should be able to sell them - the Tower poppies - on ebay for £65 and £10 postage (ebay objected to the profiteering). That really makes me want to weep.
It comes to something when the people who run ebay are less crass than Farage .
Matthew Parris claiming Ed's problem is that Labour has no place in the modern World And apparently David Miliband is poised to return at the drop of a hat were the right circumstances to arise http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4261600.ece
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ed-miliband-relishing-general-election-4588295
Edit: The ebay statement.
‘We are not permitting resale of the limited edition Blood Swept Lands and Seas of Red ceramic poppies on eBay.
‘Any listings attempting to sell these items will be cancelled before any sale takes place.
‘Our marketplace is not an appropriate venue for the limited edition ceramic poppies in view of the significance of each individual poppy as a memorial to an individual British military fatality.’
http://www.biggleswadetoday.co.uk/news/local-news/ukip-candidate-believes-party-has-real-chance-1-6402411
Video from April 2013:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=842cOcy7Fz0
I suppose it is like the poor souls who wanted to stop clapping after Stalin gave a speech, waiting, and waiting after 10 minutes to see if anyone will move before them.
I think he is being rather petty about this and it does him no credit but the headline is clearly designed to paint his comments in a worse light.
No surprise that Tories are happy to use the headline not the actual comments.
@oflynnmep: RT @UKIPolizer: Farage demands to lay a wreath at the #Cenotaph and blames the '#closedshop' of... http://ukip.trendolizer.com/2014/11/farage-demands-to-lay-a-wreath-at-the-cenotaph-and-blames-the-closed-shop-of-british-politics-for-th.html
Apart from that, spot on.
http://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/11584642.New_Conservative_candidate_confirmed_for_Warrington_North/
Frankly he is more than just wrong. It displays an alien thought process.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/11/democrats-ads-mary-landrieu-112647.html
Have you seen the Dallas hashtag for the game this weekend?
#CowboySUK
Just an awesome job there...
Despite the midterms a Fox Ohio poll shows Hillary remains the candidate to beat in 2016
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2014/10/31/fox-news-poll-ohio-governors-race/
Clinton 47
Kasich 43
Clinton 46
Christie 39
Clinton 49
Paul 40
Clinton 48
Bush 38
Clinton 49
Perry 39
http://www.census.gov/popclock/?intcmp=home_pop
Its the likes of Matthew Parris that have no place in the 21st Century
I handed the shopkeeper £10, but they didn't take half of it.
Clearly I paid the full £10
#KipperMath
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l-n64NWHS4
Oh...
Isn't that his brother, David?
Just goes to show, perhaps he wouldn't have been any better than his brother anyway.
One of the networks looked at all the candidates the Clintons campaigned for - most lost.
This turned out to be a wave election, unexpectedly. 30 states now have Republican governors and more have Republican assemblies.
How much of it will remain standing in 2016 remains to be seen
I am shocked at the allegation that Farage has "demanded" a slot at the Remembrance ceremony. I hope the reports are an exageration. Political point scoring on that a few days before is just disgusting. The time to say something would be after it and after a polite confidential request in writing had been made.
Why did he bother trying to pull the wool over our eyes? Does he take us all for fools?
It would have been better to tell it how it is, and explain his own disappointment that it couldn't be better, but it was the best deal he could get from the EU. The battle would go on as part of the EU renegotiation etc.
PS. Roger Helmer, Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless were (and are) all close political and personal friends of Dan Hannan. I'm sure he still feels an affinity with them.
Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before he defects. But I think he's staying for the time being because he enjoys being inside the big tent pissing out.
Its the likes of Matthew Parris that have no place in the 21st Century
The old cleavage between Labour and Conservative, Labour vs Capital has no relevance today. First Past the Post props up this system way past its sell-by date. But it will go. The rise of UKIP shows that democracy is functioning effectively, and a new system is currently emerging.
TimB It was a big GOP night no question, but don't forget even Reagan lost the Senate in the sixth year of his presidency.
Overall Hillary backed 13 successful candidates, 12 unsuccessful. Christie backed 14 successful and 4 unsuccessful
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29942207
Democrats
•Hillary Clinton 53.1% [65%] (65%)
•Elizabeth Warren 16.8%
•Bernie Sanders 7.0%
•Joe Biden 5.8% [8%] (10%)
•Martin O’Malley 2.3% [0.6%] (0%)
•Deval Patrick 1.4%
•Kirsten Gillibrand 1.2%
•Andrew Cuomo 1.2% [1.5%] (4%)
•Mark Warner 1.2%
Republicans
•Jeb Bush 17.3%
•Chris Christie 14.7% [17.5%] (12%)
•Ted Cruz 10.4%
•Mike Huckabee 9.9%
•Rand Paul 7.9% [19%] (15%)
•Marco Rubio 7.4% [13%] (17%)
•Rick Perry 4.7% [2.1%]
•Rick Santorum 3.1% [5.5%] (4%)
•Bobby Jindal 2.6% [2.5%] (2%)
The old cleavage between Labour and Conservative, Labour vs Capital has no relevance today. First Past the Post props up this system way past its sell-by date. But it will go. The rise of UKIP shows that democracy is functioning effectively, and a new system is currently emerging.
Matthew Parris is past his sell-by-date.
The Osborne deal looks pretty fair to me and given that not one opposition spokesman or media hack ever assured anybody that the demand was for 'only' £850 mil then I think Osborne is entitled to paint it as he did.
Four of the local Conservative members who signed my Conservative opponent's nomination papers have now told me they will be voting UKIP
0 replies 157 retweets 113 favorites"
twitter.com/MarkReckless/status/530290101361078273
But he's torn between what he feels is his duty, and his affinity with his friends. He has no love for Cameron. If Cameron reneged or pussyfooted out of it, he would defect very quickly.
The next big thing is Cameron's proposals to restrict EU immigration. After today's performance do you think it will be:
(a) a points system
(b) a strong emergency brake
(c) a weak emergency brake
(d) window dressing around benefits and the jobless
Is the shop in Finchley?
The GOP are going to tie her to Obama,at least $2.8 million worth. It'll be a long month for LA
Anyway, I'm off to bed, so I'd like to remind everyone I support both an EU referendum right away (which I think Out would win) and want UKIP to perform well in the GE, in case anyone gets mad about my surely unique insight that people lose their heads when it comes to UKIP, and that, yes Kippers, that involves their side throwing wobblers when people suggest they can overreact to things or do things for purely partisan strategic purposes.
Night all.
P.S - End of the day on the Osborne stuff, is that it is clear too many people are not buying that we got anything substantive, or feel any amount is too much, so whether that is reasonable or not, like some occasions already this parliament, he and the government will likely take a hit irrespective of whether that is fair or not.
I've got a lot of time for Dan Hannan. I don't quite share his views, but he argues his position extremely well and IMO is the best advocate of us leaving the EU. I also like the fact that he looks at the big picture of the interests of the country, rather than being motivated by some childish spat with Cameron which seems to be the prime motivation of many of the Kippers.
If he were to defect, the significance would be that he'd given up, that he had concluded there was no hope of us leaving the EU, and that therefore a principled but futile gesture was the only remaining option.