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  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    isam said:

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:48
    Stuart Wheeler is to seek a High Court injunction against any decision by the House of Commons on Monday to opt Britain back into the EAW

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:53
    A QC representing Mr Wheeler will argue that opting UK back into the EAW without a referendum is a clear breach of the “referendum lock”

    Mr Rees-Mogg will "spearhead wider opposition to the EAW", whatever that means.

    http://www.ukip.org/ukip_former_treasurer_to_mount_legal_challenge_to_european_arrest_warrant
  • JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    OK, so Kinnock joins the illustrious company of Hardie, Attlee and Wilson.

    Wilson didn't lose two successive elections, did he? Won in 64, 66, lost in 70, won in Feb 74 and again Oct 74
    Did he not lose the popular vote in two elections in a row?

    1970 and Feb 1974.

    Ps emailed you
    Seats, dear boy, seats and being PM that's what decides who wins or loses!

    Yep, e-mail safely received and I'll get back to you once Jolly Green Neil stirs himself!
    Of course. Seats it is.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Pulpstar said:


    Pulpstar said:

    Casino_R - thanks very much for that post, and for the links to your blog postings which I have skimmed and will come back to when I have more time. I can see some cause for optimism, for sure. I have a feeling that there are droves of Tory 2010 wins that haven't a hope in hell of staying Tory, but if Labour collapse they might well do - and even if my local seats like Bury N, Pendle, Rossendale and others in the north return safely to the Labour fold, as I am 100% certain they will, there might not be as many of these seats as I think there are....

    I've backed Labour in Bury North. Just "sounds" like it should be Labour :)
    You seem to be betting all the time. Where do you get all this money from?

    PS. On that logic you would have lost in GE2010!
    Winnings? Pulpstar is a very smart cookie!
    Not winnings... yet... but I'm trying to keep a green book and get value on all sides for GE2015.

    Closed bets are in profit though, yes.

    Are you coming to Dirty Dicks ?

    Wouldn't mind an experienced punter checking my GE book...
    If you're still betting on a Labour majority you're wasting your money IMHO. I've gone very red on Lab Maj, and am very comfortable with that.

    I can understand the 'all-green' approach though. It's more comfortable if you're not personally 100% sure. It depends on the punter and the risk appetite.
    Oh I am blood red on Labour Majority too, a Labour Minority administration OTOH would be very nice.
  • Pulpstar said:


    Pulpstar said:

    Casino_R - thanks very much for that post, and for the links to your blog postings which I have skimmed and will come back to when I have more time. I can see some cause for optimism, for sure. I have a feeling that there are droves of Tory 2010 wins that haven't a hope in hell of staying Tory, but if Labour collapse they might well do - and even if my local seats like Bury N, Pendle, Rossendale and others in the north return safely to the Labour fold, as I am 100% certain they will, there might not be as many of these seats as I think there are....

    I've backed Labour in Bury North. Just "sounds" like it should be Labour :)
    You seem to be betting all the time. Where do you get all this money from?

    PS. On that logic you would have lost in GE2010!
    Winnings? Pulpstar is a very smart cookie!
    Not winnings... yet... but I'm trying to keep a green book and get value on all sides for GE2015.

    Closed bets are in profit though, yes.

    Are you coming to Dirty Dicks ?

    Wouldn't mind an experienced punter checking my GE book...
    Maybe next time - unfortunately there are a couple of PBers with whom I'd decidedly prefer not to meet again!
    Oh? That sounds an interesting story.
    Only of interest to me Casino, but a sad story nonetheless, as I used to invariably enjoy PB functions, especially the diversity of views and the betting ideas which I took away with me.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    isam said:

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:48
    Stuart Wheeler is to seek a High Court injunction against any decision by the House of Commons on Monday to opt Britain back into the EAW

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:53
    A QC representing Mr Wheeler will argue that opting UK back into the EAW without a referendum is a clear breach of the “referendum lock”

    Prospects of success, in case anyone was wondering?

    Nil.
  • Pulpstar said:


    Pulpstar said:

    Casino_R - thanks very much for that post, and for the links to your blog postings which I have skimmed and will come back to when I have more time. I can see some cause for optimism, for sure. I have a feeling that there are droves of Tory 2010 wins that haven't a hope in hell of staying Tory, but if Labour collapse they might well do - and even if my local seats like Bury N, Pendle, Rossendale and others in the north return safely to the Labour fold, as I am 100% certain they will, there might not be as many of these seats as I think there are....

    I've backed Labour in Bury North. Just "sounds" like it should be Labour :)
    You seem to be betting all the time. Where do you get all this money from?

    PS. On that logic you would have lost in GE2010!
    Winnings? Pulpstar is a very smart cookie!
    Not winnings... yet... but I'm trying to keep a green book and get value on all sides for GE2015.

    Closed bets are in profit though, yes.

    Are you coming to Dirty Dicks ?

    Wouldn't mind an experienced punter checking my GE book...
    Maybe next time - unfortunately there are a couple of PBers with whom I'd decidedly prefer not to meet again!
    Oh? That sounds an interesting story.
    Only of interest to me Casino, but a sad story nonetheless, as I used to invariably enjoy PB functions, especially the diversity of views and the betting ideas which I took away with me.
    I understand. I'm sorry to hear that. It would have been a privilege to meet you.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    The Twitter #EM4PM campaign to save Ed is going well then.

    The net is littered with photos of Ewan McGregor - Eric Morecombe – Ed Murphy - Eddie Mair – Esther McVey etc etc, for 4 PM

    The former Australian Rugby Union coach, Ewen McKenzie, who resigned last week, is out of work.

  • Scott_P said:
    Fantastic analogy! Unfortunately due to the poor leadership of 'Big X', and his 35% strategy, the tunnel is 20 feet short of the inside of the perimeter fence.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    isam said:

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:48
    Stuart Wheeler is to seek a High Court injunction against any decision by the House of Commons on Monday to opt Britain back into the EAW

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:53
    A QC representing Mr Wheeler will argue that opting UK back into the EAW without a referendum is a clear breach of the “referendum lock”

    Prospects of success, in case anyone was wondering?

    Nil.
    It's not the success that is important, it is the trying and (most important) failing that will reap dividends.

    Little Englanders do not like 'Johnny English' being locked up in other countries - after all our own justice system is beyond compere.

  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    the biggest fear labour must have is winning with EdM as leader . He will lead them back to the wilderness of opposition for a generation if he wins in 2015
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167
    I never seem to be in the right place at the right time to make it to a PB get together. Even when I worked within walking distance of Dirty D's I always had a clash.

    I'm sure you can get on just fine without a left-wing Geordie anyways.

    Oh, and have the Blairites got back in their box yet? As I said here around 4 years ago, Ed's big decision will be whether or not he wants to seek a third term as PM.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Delay in payment of £1.7bn EU bill confirmed, also Osborne shouting that UK will only pay half (but whether that factors in the increased rebate and structural funding I don't know).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    weejonnie said:

    isam said:

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:48
    Stuart Wheeler is to seek a High Court injunction against any decision by the House of Commons on Monday to opt Britain back into the EAW

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:53
    A QC representing Mr Wheeler will argue that opting UK back into the EAW without a referendum is a clear breach of the “referendum lock”

    Prospects of success, in case anyone was wondering?

    Nil.
    It's not the success that is important, it is the trying and (most important) failing that will reap dividends.

    Little Englanders do not like 'Johnny English' being locked up in other countries - after all our own justice system is beyond compere.

    Especially if the compere is Bruce Forsyth!
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    According to BBC breaking news, Osborne claiming UK will pay only 50% of that £1.7bn bill

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29956289
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited November 2014
    weejonnie said:

    isam said:

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:48
    Stuart Wheeler is to seek a High Court injunction against any decision by the House of Commons on Monday to opt Britain back into the EAW

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:53
    A QC representing Mr Wheeler will argue that opting UK back into the EAW without a referendum is a clear breach of the “referendum lock”

    Prospects of success, in case anyone was wondering?

    Nil.
    It's not the success that is important, it is the trying and (most important) failing that will reap dividends.

    Little Englanders do not like 'Johnny English' being locked up in other countries - after all our own justice system is beyond compere.

    Being imprisoned without charge is not a small thing.

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/11/christopher-howarth-the-eaw-we-should-cooperate-with-our-eu-neighbours-but-why-should-we-join-a-eu-criminal-justice-system.html
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    UK's £1.7bn bill to EU 'halved' says Osborne

    According to BBC.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited November 2014
    JohnO said:

    According to BBC breaking news, Osborne claiming UK will pay only 50% of that £1.7bn bill

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29956289


    Well done. But the problem is that many people don't want the UK to pay anything!

  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Osborne on BBC News:

    Bill halved, payable in two instalments next year, rules permanently changed, no interest payable and rebate fully intact.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    Pulpstar said:

    Casino_R - thanks very much for that post, and for the links to your blog postings which I have skimmed and will come back to when I have more time. I can see some cause for optimism, for sure. I have a feeling that there are droves of Tory 2010 wins that haven't a hope in hell of staying Tory, but if Labour collapse they might well do - and even if my local seats like Bury N, Pendle, Rossendale and others in the north return safely to the Labour fold, as I am 100% certain they will, there might not be as many of these seats as I think there are....

    I've backed Labour in Bury North. Just "sounds" like it should be Labour :)
    In fact, Bury's a pretty affluent Lancastrian mill town, with a long history of working class Toryism. The more rural bits around it and Ramsbottom are pretty decently Tory.

    Pretty sure it was mostly Tory from the 1960s to 1997. However, the council has gone strongly back Labour in recent years from being Tory controlled under Gordon Brown as PM, and I can't see David Nuttall holding on, particularly with a UKIP onslaught and they are likely to pick up many votes. The Ashcroft polling in Bury N was not good this week either.

    (Incidentally, I moved to the bottom end of Bury a couple of years ago. It was nice to be living in a marginal and Tory-held seat again - until I found out I lived in the only ward in Bury that is not in the misleadingly named "Bury North". So I'm actually in the only bit of Bury in the Labour seat of Bury South (or "Prestwich, Whitefield & Radcliffe" as it should be called), and although it was Tory in the 80s, that has no chance of ever going Tory again! Bugger....)
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Yep, UK will HAVE to pay all of the £1.7bn.

    Osborne just counting in the rebate and other funds that were always going to be a downstream effect of this confected issue.

    Wonder if Osborne is about to get hoist by his petard?
  • chestnut said:

    Osborne on BBC News:

    Bill halved, payable in two instalments next year, rules permanently changed, no interest payable and rebate fully intact.

    How can that be?

    on an LBC radio phone-in on Friday morning, Farage said Cameron would have little option but to go along with the demand, which will have to be paid in December.

    “Of course he will pay up. These are the rules, the contributions to the European Union was a very complex formula and part of it is a measurement of your GDP against everybody else’s. There’s nothing he can do,” he said.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/24/eu-contribution-cameron-pay-extra-funds-farage


  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    weejonnie said:

    isam said:

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:48
    Stuart Wheeler is to seek a High Court injunction against any decision by the House of Commons on Monday to opt Britain back into the EAW

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:53
    A QC representing Mr Wheeler will argue that opting UK back into the EAW without a referendum is a clear breach of the “referendum lock”

    Prospects of success, in case anyone was wondering?

    Nil.
    It's not the success that is important, it is the trying and (most important) failing that will reap dividends.

    Little Englanders do not like 'Johnny English' being locked up in other countries - after all our own justice system is beyond compere.

    Being imprisoned without charge is not a small thing.

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/11/christopher-howarth-the-eaw-we-should-cooperate-with-our-eu-neighbours-but-why-should-we-join-a-eu-criminal-justice-system.html
    Are there circumnstances in which someone might be the subject of a warrant from, say, Poland, for something which is not a crime here?

    Just asking, since Kippers seem to think it’s UK against a homogenous “EU” nwhere none of the other countries disagree with each other about anything!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    chestnut said:

    Osborne on BBC News:

    Bill halved, payable in two instalments next year, rules permanently changed, no interest payable and rebate fully intact.

    How can that be?

    on an LBC radio phone-in on Friday morning, Farage said Cameron would have little option but to go along with the demand, which will have to be paid in December.

    “Of course he will pay up. These are the rules, the contributions to the European Union was a very complex formula and part of it is a measurement of your GDP against everybody else’s. There’s nothing he can do,” he said.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/24/eu-contribution-cameron-pay-extra-funds-farage


    Nige has not achieved the square root of eff all by being an MEP - was judging GO's chances by his own efforts.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    BenM said:


    Wonder if Osborne is about to get hoist by his petard?

    Guy Fawkes night was two days ago.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    This highlights what's going on:

    Tony McNulty‏ @Tony_McNulty·2 mins2 minutes ago
    @Spectator_CH @jgforsyth No - bill remains £1.7bn, paid in two halves and UK rebate brought forward a year - hasn't been halved at all.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    chestnut said:

    Osborne on BBC News:

    Bill halved, payable in two instalments next year, rules permanently changed, no interest payable and rebate fully intact.

    How can that be?

    on an LBC radio phone-in on Friday morning, Farage said Cameron would have little option but to go along with the demand, which will have to be paid in December.

    “Of course he will pay up. These are the rules, the contributions to the European Union was a very complex formula and part of it is a measurement of your GDP against everybody else’s. There’s nothing he can do,” he said.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/24/eu-contribution-cameron-pay-extra-funds-farage


    Osborne's actions and Farage's statement are in agreement.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    chestnut said:

    Osborne on BBC News:

    Bill halved, payable in two instalments next year, rules permanently changed, no interest payable and rebate fully intact.

    If that is the case I think he will have done a good job.
  • chestnut said:

    Osborne on BBC News:

    Bill halved, payable in two instalments next year, rules permanently changed, no interest payable and rebate fully intact.

    Yep this is George 'No Plans To Raise VAT' Osborne we are talking about. Let's wait for the detail shall we?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    weejonnie said:

    isam said:

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:48
    Stuart Wheeler is to seek a High Court injunction against any decision by the House of Commons on Monday to opt Britain back into the EAW

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:53
    A QC representing Mr Wheeler will argue that opting UK back into the EAW without a referendum is a clear breach of the “referendum lock”

    Prospects of success, in case anyone was wondering?

    Nil.
    It's not the success that is important, it is the trying and (most important) failing that will reap dividends.

    Little Englanders do not like 'Johnny English' being locked up in other countries - after all our own justice system is beyond compere.

    Being imprisoned without charge is not a small thing.

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/11/christopher-howarth-the-eaw-we-should-cooperate-with-our-eu-neighbours-but-why-should-we-join-a-eu-criminal-justice-system.html
    Are there circumnstances in which someone might be the subject of a warrant from, say, Poland, for something which is not a crime here?

    Just asking, since Kippers seem to think it’s UK against a homogenous “EU” nwhere none of the other countries disagree with each other about anything!
    The King family hadn't committed any crime when the UK police used the EAW to imprison them in Spain.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    Ed out now 5/1 with Shadsy
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    POSBWAS

    Sarah Brown ‏@SarahBrownUK 4m4 minutes ago
    Proud to sit between two Labour leaders, Neil Kinnock & Ed Miliband, at service to honour Paul Cottingham. Great tributes to a lovely man.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited November 2014
    The EU has played a blinder here. They've managed to make an extra £850 million being transferred from the UK to Brussels look like a victory for the UK.

    That's the European Union for you: a loss is where you get screwed, a win is where you get half-screwed.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    31%.

    That's the percentage of Labour MPs who backed Ed Miliband in the leadership contest.
  • JohnO said:

    According to BBC breaking news, Osborne claiming UK will pay only 50% of that £1.7bn bill

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29956289

    I wonder if there's been a bit of wink-wink nudge-nudge. Ok, we'll pay £850m, rather than £400m we wanted to, provided you play ball with us on the EU renegotiation next year. If you don't we'll withhold the 2nd payment. We scratch your back you scratch ours.

    That's negotiation. On an aside, I'm finding Osborne an increasingly effective political operator and now wonder if I'd prefer him as next Tory leader to Boris.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    If Osborne has just agreed to pay the £1.7bn but in instalments, with some chicanery to make it look like it's been cut in half, then he is finished, Cameron is finished, and the Tories are finished.

    If Osborne truly wanted to deflect attention from EdM's plight, then way to go, George!

    I smell a great big stinking rat.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I never seem to be in the right place at the right time to make it to a PB get together. Even when I worked within walking distance of Dirty D's I always had a clash.

    I'm sure you can get on just fine without a left-wing Geordie anyways.

    Oh, and have the Blairites got back in their box yet? As I said here around 4 years ago, Ed's big decision will be whether or not he wants to seek a third term as PM.

    You want to bet on that?

    I'm willing to say that he will, at most, serve 6 years as PM in the next 10.
  • If Osborne has just agreed to pay the £1.7bn but in instalments, with some chicanery to make it look like it's been cut in half, then he is finished, Cameron is finished, and the Tories are finished.

    If Osborne truly wanted to deflect attention from EdM's plight, then way to go, George!

    I smell a great big stinking rat.

    Well if Brussels is involved its likely a whole nest of them!
  • UKIP price for Rochester has contracted suddenly to 1.05.

    Is there a poll out there?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    If Osborne has just agreed to pay the £1.7bn but in instalments, with some chicanery to make it look like it's been cut in half, then he is finished, Cameron is finished, and the Tories are finished.

    If Osborne truly wanted to deflect attention from EdM's plight, then way to go, George!

    I smell a great big stinking rat.

    The BBC is reporting it as being halved.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    If Osborne has just agreed to pay the £1.7bn but in instalments, with some chicanery to make it look like it's been cut in half, then he is finished, Cameron is finished, and the Tories are finished.

    If Osborne truly wanted to deflect attention from EdM's plight, then way to go, George!

    I smell a great big stinking rat.

    That's basically what's happened. Body language very revealing:

    Isabel Oakeshott ‏@IsabelOakeshott·
    I am struck by how very nervous/stressed the Chx looked just now as he announced his "great deal." Is there something fishy about this??
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    UKIP price for Rochester has contracted suddenly to 1.05.

    Is there a poll out there?

    I guess if UKIP are on 24% nationally with one of the polling companies it sort of makes a win for the party in Rochester seem like a formality.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    Socrates said:

    If Osborne has just agreed to pay the £1.7bn but in instalments, with some chicanery to make it look like it's been cut in half, then he is finished, Cameron is finished, and the Tories are finished.

    If Osborne truly wanted to deflect attention from EdM's plight, then way to go, George!

    I smell a great big stinking rat.

    The BBC is reporting it as being halved.
    No, it is reporting that Osborne says it is being halved. A crucial distinction.
  • UKIP price for Rochester has contracted suddenly to 1.05.

    Is there a poll out there?

    I expect there is.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Ed is a Spod.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-ed-miliband-4585961

    Must be a Tory rag, mocking him this time.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited November 2014
    BBC report

    An armoured column including 32 tanks and 30 trucks has crossed into eastern Ukraine from Russia, Kiev says.

    Looks like an invasion and smells like an invasion ...............

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    If Osborne has just agreed to pay the £1.7bn but in instalments, with some chicanery to make it look like it's been cut in half, then he is finished, Cameron is finished, and the Tories are finished.

    If Osborne truly wanted to deflect attention from EdM's plight, then way to go, George!

    I smell a great big stinking rat.

    The BBC is reporting it as being halved.
    No, it is reporting that Osborne says it is being halved. A crucial distinction.
    It would be monumentally stupid to agree the full bill, but even more monumentally stupid to pretend you weren't when the truth will come out in a couple of hours. I don't believe the Tories, for all their faults, are that stupid.
  • UKIP price for Rochester has contracted suddenly to 1.05.

    Is there a poll out there?

    I expect there is.
    Thank you, TSE.

    You do 'enigmatic' so beautifully.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    weejonnie said:

    isam said:

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:48
    Stuart Wheeler is to seek a High Court injunction against any decision by the House of Commons on Monday to opt Britain back into the EAW

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:53
    A QC representing Mr Wheeler will argue that opting UK back into the EAW without a referendum is a clear breach of the “referendum lock”

    Prospects of success, in case anyone was wondering?

    Nil.
    It's not the success that is important, it is the trying and (most important) failing that will reap dividends.

    Little Englanders do not like 'Johnny English' being locked up in other countries - after all our own justice system is beyond compere.

    It's not a question of being a little Englander but of noting that we have the concept of habeas corpus and most other European countries do not. This can and does lead to injustice. I do not think that justice should be sacrificed just to be able to say that we are being "European" whatever that means in this context. People can perfectly well be extradited without the EAW.

  • BBC report

    An armoured column including 32 tanks and 30 trucks has crossed into eastern Ukraine from Russia, Kiev says.

    I've heard of some strange military formations in my time, but I've never heard of stacking 60 tanks and trunks on top of each other.

    Just one well placed shell at the bottom would take them all out.
  • BBC report

    An armoured column including 32 tanks and 30 trucks has crossed into eastern Ukraine from Russia, Kiev says.

    Looks like an invasion and smells like an invasion ...............

    The rouble has been in freefall recently, so I guess something like this was anticipated.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited November 2014
    http://www.lbc.co.uk/farage-backs-marine-a-over-afghan-murder-99988

    Well done Nigel.

    norm morse ‏@normmoo 3m3 minutes ago
    @CarlWil35586309 @MikkiL @LBC Fair play to Farage, he is going as far as he can to support "A". No other party leaders have grown a pair.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Socrates said:

    If Osborne has just agreed to pay the £1.7bn but in instalments, with some chicanery to make it look like it's been cut in half, then he is finished, Cameron is finished, and the Tories are finished.

    If Osborne truly wanted to deflect attention from EdM's plight, then way to go, George!

    I smell a great big stinking rat.

    The BBC is reporting it as being halved.
    No, it is reporting that Osborne says it is being halved. A crucial distinction.
    Does it means the net payment is halved as our rebate is adjusted to take consideration of the extra payment ?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Maybe we're finally going to get an Ashcroft poll for Rochester.
  • manofkent2014manofkent2014 Posts: 1,543
    edited November 2014
    Fraser Nelson has a theory. Basically he reckons Osborne has admitted the Treasury is broke:

    Did Osborne halve Britain’s EU bill by admitting that growth still leaves him broke?

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/did-george-osborne-halve-britains-eu-bill-by-admitting-that-his-growth-is-a-mirage/

    I think if that is true that is worse than having to fork out £1.7 billion..
  • JohnO said:

    According to BBC breaking news, Osborne claiming UK will pay only 50% of that £1.7bn bill

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29956289

    This is roughly what I got to when I calculated the net effect of all the adjustments to the budget contributions - in addition to the single one that has made all the headlines. Does he really think the British media is that stupid?

    Oh.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    BenM said:

    This highlights what's going on:

    Tony McNulty‏ @Tony_McNulty·2 mins2 minutes ago
    @Spectator_CH @jgforsyth No - bill remains £1.7bn, paid in two halves and UK rebate brought forward a year - hasn't been halved at all.

    George Osborne insisted that the Commission apply the ‘British advantage’ element of the rebate to the bill which led to this 50% reduction. Other EU member state have also accepted that no payments will be made by HMG before the election, with the final payment due on the 1st of September next year.

    This is what Forsyth wrote. That suggests that the amount has been discounted by the application of the usual British rebate rather than McNulty's response.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/osborne-gets-britains-1-7bn-bill-halved-and-no-payments-before-the-election/
  • UKIP price for Rochester has contracted suddenly to 1.05.

    Is there a poll out there?

    I expect there is.
    Thank you, TSE.

    You do 'enigmatic' so beautifully.
    I have to be careful. Once I said ComRes phone poll out at 10pm and people applied all sorts of Kremlinology to my comment. Was it good for the Tories etc.

    All I will say is I haven't seen any embargoed polls.

    So I've merely speculated.
  • Re Osborne and EU money.

    Not since Agincourt or Waterloo has an Englishman gone to mainland Europe and given the Europeans such a trashing.

    Stunning victory.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Net effect is no payment before the election, reduced payment after the election in 2015.

    Whoever is in government in 2016 may well have a live issue to return to with rebate negotiations, so it all depends on who people vote for in May 2015 and, indirectly, whether a referendum is set to be held.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited November 2014
    So Ukip and the media were too stupid to realise that the rebate would be applied ?

  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    BBC report

    An armoured column including 32 tanks and 30 trucks has crossed into eastern Ukraine from Russia, Kiev says.

    Looks like an invasion and smells like an invasion ...............

    This must be the 100th time Russian has invaded. I don't think even NATO will go along with this one, certainly not expecting any satellite photos anytime soon.

    http://nationalinterest.org/feature/get-ready-world-ukraine-being-torn-shreds-11611?page=show
    Serious analysis of why Ukraine is between a rock and a hard place.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Charles said:

    BenM said:

    This highlights what's going on:

    Tony McNulty‏ @Tony_McNulty·2 mins2 minutes ago
    @Spectator_CH @jgforsyth No - bill remains £1.7bn, paid in two halves and UK rebate brought forward a year - hasn't been halved at all.

    George Osborne insisted that the Commission apply the ‘British advantage’ element of the rebate to the bill which led to this 50% reduction. Other EU member state have also accepted that no payments will be made by HMG before the election, with the final payment due on the 1st of September next year.

    This is what Forsyth wrote. That suggests that the amount has been discounted by the application of the usual British rebate rather than McNulty's response.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/osborne-gets-britains-1-7bn-bill-halved-and-no-payments-before-the-election/
    Suggest that Kippers and Labour stop shouting this win from the rooftops..
  • It may be the the EU did not take account of the UK's rebate when they calculated the 15 years of backpayments for revised GDP.

    In particular the rebate was much higher before Blair gave it away so would be a significant saving on tne original calculation.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Re Osborne and EU money.

    Not since Agincourt or Waterloo has an Englishman gone to mainland Europe and given the Europeans such a trashing.

    Stunning victory.

    How much money did we fork over to the continentals after the victories in Agincourt and Waterloo?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    weejonnie said:

    isam said:

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:48
    Stuart Wheeler is to seek a High Court injunction against any decision by the House of Commons on Monday to opt Britain back into the EAW

    UKIP (@UKIP)
    07/11/2014 12:53
    A QC representing Mr Wheeler will argue that opting UK back into the EAW without a referendum is a clear breach of the “referendum lock”

    Prospects of success, in case anyone was wondering?

    Nil.
    It's not the success that is important, it is the trying and (most important) failing that will reap dividends.

    Little Englanders do not like 'Johnny English' being locked up in other countries - after all our own justice system is beyond compere.

    Being imprisoned without charge is not a small thing.

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/11/christopher-howarth-the-eaw-we-should-cooperate-with-our-eu-neighbours-but-why-should-we-join-a-eu-criminal-justice-system.html
    Are there circumnstances in which someone might be the subject of a warrant from, say, Poland, for something which is not a crime here?

    Just asking, since Kippers seem to think it’s UK against a homogenous “EU” nwhere none of the other countries disagree with each other about anything!
    The King family hadn't committed any crime when the UK police used the EAW to imprison them in Spain.
    That’s true, although, without taking side, IIRC there was a discussion about whether there was a child protection issue.

    However my question was, if the was a warrant out for someone in Poland for something which wasn’t a crime in Britain whether our Police would be expected to arrest someone who’d fled here?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Nigel_Farage: Osborne trying to spin his way out of disaster. UK still paying full £1.7bn, his credibility is about to nose dive.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    edited November 2014
    TGOHF said:

    So Ukip and the media were too stupid to realise that the rebate would be applied ?

    Yes.

    Why oh why weren't Cameron and Osborne just honest about what was going on rather than immediately lurching into the preposterous anti EU butch and macho mode of the last week or so?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Scott_P said:

    @Nigel_Farage: Osborne trying to spin his way out of disaster. UK still paying full £1.7bn, his credibility is about to nose dive.

    I think Farage is wrong about this. Osborne was quite clear that the bill had halved.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @David_Cameron: I said we wouldn't pay £1.7bn on December 1st. We've now halved the bill and will pay nothing until next July. We're delivering for Britain.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    UK Pollling Report have a nice info graphic showing voter churn.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9049

    2010-Con > UKIP is larger than 2010-LD > Labour.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    It may be the the EU did not take account of the UK's rebate when they calculated the 15 years of backpayments for revised GDP.

    In particular the rebate was much higher before Blair gave it away so would be a significant saving on tne original calculation.

    So, in summary, George can do maths, and Brussels can't.

    No wonder they can't get their accounts signed off. They were probably presented in crayon.
  • MikeK said:

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/farage-backs-marine-a-over-afghan-murder-99988

    Well done Nigel.

    norm morse ‏@normmoo 3m3 minutes ago
    @CarlWil35586309 @MikkiL @LBC Fair play to Farage, he is going as far as he can to support "A". No other party leaders have grown a pair.

    Farage defending the traditional British right to commit murder.

    Yeah, right. I suppose that's the kind of British values UKIP want to celebrate.

    Presumably UKIP would take the same view if, say, evidence came to light of an Argentinian officer killing a wounded British soldier in cold-blood.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Speech by Farage in Rochester & Strood at a public meeting:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpqeMY1A9C8&amp
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    @Nigel_Farage: Osborne trying to spin his way out of disaster. UK still paying full £1.7bn, his credibility is about to nose dive.

    Farage will be claiming that GO paid £10 for a pint of milk as he omits to mention the £9.32 in change he received back.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @ITVJoel: Well, well, well. The Chancellor has secured the discount he told @itvnews last week he was confident he'd get http://t.co/zBBzJOSxuC
  • I smell British sausage.
  • Socrates said:

    Re Osborne and EU money.

    Not since Agincourt or Waterloo has an Englishman gone to mainland Europe and given the Europeans such a trashing.

    Stunning victory.

    How much money did we fork over to the continentals after the victories in Agincourt and Waterloo?
    I expect Abba to reform and do a song on Osborne's victory.
  • antifrank said:

    I smell British sausage.

    This isn't grindr!
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    edited November 2014
    Socrates said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Nigel_Farage: Osborne trying to spin his way out of disaster. UK still paying full £1.7bn, his credibility is about to nose dive.

    I think Farage is wrong about this. Osborne was quite clear that the bill had halved.
    The bill hasn't halved.

    What you're witnessing is a shift from the focus on P&L to one on cashflow.

    Edit: which means I'm more in agreement with Farage! Hell hath frozen over!
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    Re Osborne and EU money.

    Not since Agincourt or Waterloo has an Englishman gone to mainland Europe and given the Europeans such a trashing.

    Stunning victory.

    By God, sir, I've lost my Wallet!".

    Wellington:, "By God, sir, so you have!"


  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/farage-backs-marine-a-over-afghan-murder-99988

    Well done Nigel.

    norm morse ‏@normmoo 3m3 minutes ago
    @CarlWil35586309 @MikkiL @LBC Fair play to Farage, he is going as far as he can to support "A". No other party leaders have grown a pair.

    Farage defending the traditional British right to commit murder.

    Yeah, right. I suppose that's the kind of British values UKIP want to celebrate.

    Presumably UKIP would take the same view if, say, evidence came to light of an Argentinian officer killing a wounded British soldier in cold-blood.
    You are a miserable fool, Nabavi. Your words show how twisted your mind is.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Aren't you a serious poker player in your other life here?

    Pulpstar said:

    Casino_R - thanks very much for that post, and for the links to your blog postings which I have skimmed and will come back to when I have more time. I can see some cause for optimism, for sure. I have a feeling that there are droves of Tory 2010 wins that haven't a hope in hell of staying Tory, but if Labour collapse they might well do - and even if my local seats like Bury N, Pendle, Rossendale and others in the north return safely to the Labour fold, as I am 100% certain they will, there might not be as many of these seats as I think there are....

    I've backed Labour in Bury North. Just "sounds" like it should be Labour :)
    You seem to be betting all the time. Where do you get all this money from?

    PS. On that logic you would have lost in GE2010!
    Winnings? Pulpstar is a very smart cookie!
    I'm sure he is. My disposable income available for betting each month is rather limited.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited November 2014
    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Nigel_Farage: Osborne trying to spin his way out of disaster. UK still paying full £1.7bn, his credibility is about to nose dive.

    I think Farage is wrong about this. Osborne was quite clear that the bill had halved.
    The bill hasn't halved.

    What you're witnessing is a shift from the focus on P&L to one on cashflow.

    Edit: which means I'm more in agreement with Farage! Hell hath frozen over!
    THAT I can believe as plausible for the Tories to do: get the rebate netted off the first payment, rather than getting it back later. But it just seems unlikely that the numbers work. Does the rebate exactly half the bill? I don't buy it.
  • TGOHF said:

    So Ukip and the media were too stupid to realise that the rebate would be applied ?

    The rebate is applied in all the other budget amendments that I looked at, as far as I could understand them, so it would surprise me if the original calculation did not include the UK adjustment, as per normal.

    Consequently I think that explanation is bollocks.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Fraser Nelson has a theory. Basically he reckons Osborne has admitted the Treasury is broke:

    Did Osborne halve Britain’s EU bill by admitting that growth still leaves him broke?

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/did-george-osborne-halve-britains-eu-bill-by-admitting-that-his-growth-is-a-mirage/

    I think if that is true that is worse than having to fork out £1.7 billion..

    Takes a special kind of curmudgeon (Fraser Nelson) to invent a reason so fatuous as this.

  • MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/farage-backs-marine-a-over-afghan-murder-99988

    Well done Nigel.

    norm morse ‏@normmoo 3m3 minutes ago
    @CarlWil35586309 @MikkiL @LBC Fair play to Farage, he is going as far as he can to support "A". No other party leaders have grown a pair.

    Farage defending the traditional British right to commit murder.

    Yeah, right. I suppose that's the kind of British values UKIP want to celebrate.

    Presumably UKIP would take the same view if, say, evidence came to light of an Argentinian officer killing a wounded British soldier in cold-blood.
    You are a miserable fool, Nabavi. Your words show how twisted your mind is.
    My words show that I am a consistent upholder of the principles of British justice, irrespective of who commits the crime and the ethnicity of the victim.

    And you, Sir? And Mr Farage?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Anthony Wells / UKPR: "How the votes have shifted since 2012":

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9049#comments
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Who is Danny The Tunnel King here?

    Scott_P said:
    Fantastic analogy! Unfortunately due to the poor leadership of 'Big X', and his 35% strategy, the tunnel is 20 feet short of the inside of the perimeter fence.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @IsabelHardman: /@MarkReckless is claiming Tories misquoted him on Lodge Hill. Here's the Hansard http://t.co/WvbXhzUgXU http://t.co/R39DPh5lkE
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Nigel_Farage: Osborne trying to spin his way out of disaster. UK still paying full £1.7bn, his credibility is about to nose dive.

    I think Farage is wrong about this. Osborne was quite clear that the bill had halved.
    The bill hasn't halved.

    What you're witnessing is a shift from the focus on P&L to one on cashflow.

    Edit: which means I'm more in agreement with Farage! Hell hath frozen over!
    Strange bedfellows!

    Anyway, surely, surely Osborne isn't so stupid as to give this the full smoke and mirrors treatment. He must know that it would unravel by tea-time and he'd look like a total putz. Surely.
  • TGOHF said:

    Fraser Nelson has a theory. Basically he reckons Osborne has admitted the Treasury is broke:

    Did Osborne halve Britain’s EU bill by admitting that growth still leaves him broke?

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/did-george-osborne-halve-britains-eu-bill-by-admitting-that-his-growth-is-a-mirage/

    I think if that is true that is worse than having to fork out £1.7 billion..

    Takes a special kind of curmudgeon (Fraser Nelson) to invent a reason so fatuous as this.

    With the Treasury borrowing £100 billion a year (and recently exceeding it's targets again I believe) its not exactly rocket science to conclude that the Treasury is broke.......
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Telegraph has more

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11216465/George-Osborne-Britain-to-pay-half-of-disputed-European-Union-1.7billion-bill.html

    "Critics immediately pointed out that Britain was already due to be paid the rebate and insisted that the Government is effectively still paying £1.7billion.

    Downing Street denied these claims and said that there was no "legal certainty" from the EU that the rebate would apply to the budget bill.

    Downing Street said the bill had been halved because Britain’s rebate from Brussels is now being applied to the bill."
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    more Tele

    "Mr Osborne said: "Instead of footing the bill, we have halved the bill, we have delayed the bill, we will pay no interest on the bill and if there are mistakes in the bill we will get our money back.

    "We’ve also changed permanently the rules of the European Union so this never happens again."
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited November 2014
    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/farage-backs-marine-a-over-afghan-murder-99988

    Well done Nigel.

    norm morse ‏@normmoo 3m3 minutes ago
    @CarlWil35586309 @MikkiL @LBC Fair play to Farage, he is going as far as he can to support "A". No other party leaders have grown a pair.

    Farage defending the traditional British right to commit murder.

    Yeah, right. I suppose that's the kind of British values UKIP want to celebrate.

    Presumably UKIP would take the same view if, say, evidence came to light of an Argentinian officer killing a wounded British soldier in cold-blood.
    You are a miserable fool, Nabavi. Your words show how twisted your mind is.
    Richard is right. Farage is mistaken on this. It was a cold-blooded killing and the British should hold themselves to a higher standard.
  • antifrank said:

    Off topic, for the lunchtime crowd, here's my piece from this morning looking at how all the various constituency markets fit together and their implications for the overall general election result:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/the-constituency-markets-today-putting.html

    A very comprehensive and impressive piece of work antifrank and an excellent betting reference guide for punters such as myself I would suggest. It's remarkable how you find the time and enthusiasm to collate all this information in so much detail and in such an orderly fashion.
    Taken together well worthy of the 2014 POTY award in my view, no doubt about it.


    That's very kind of you, but to be honest I do it mainly for myself so that I can make sure I'm not making silly bets by accident (I sometimes make silly bets on purpose...) Having done the work, I put it online so that if I've made any obvious mistakes other people can point them out to me.

    This last week my other half has been in northern Ireland, so I've had a fair amount of free time in the evenings and first thing in the morning. There will probably be a period of relative quiet for a week or two after this bout of activity.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Fraser Nelson has a theory. Basically he reckons Osborne has admitted the Treasury is broke:

    Did Osborne halve Britain’s EU bill by admitting that growth still leaves him broke?

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/did-george-osborne-halve-britains-eu-bill-by-admitting-that-his-growth-is-a-mirage/

    I think if that is true that is worse than having to fork out £1.7 billion..

    Takes a special kind of curmudgeon (Fraser Nelson) to invent a reason so fatuous as this.

    With the Treasury borrowing £100 billion a year (and recently exceeding it's targets again I believe) its not exactly rocket science to conclude that the Treasury is broke.......
    Well reintroducing the spare room subsidy (Kipper policy) is not going to help.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Plato said:

    Who is Danny The Tunnel King here?

    Well now it's Lucy Powell...

    Cripes !
This discussion has been closed.