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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Big news from Westminster is that there are LAB calls for E

SystemSystem Posts: 11,700
edited November 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Big news from Westminster is that there are LAB calls for Ed Miliband to step down

BBC News says some LAB MPs have told chair of parliamentary party that EdM should stand down
http://t.co/2SRcUMXoty pic.twitter.com/7be3uKBRWd

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Who do the tories most fear as Ed's replacement?

    My guess is Andy Burnham.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,289
    Balls.
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    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    Damn damn damn dammit. Got to pray this doesn't get any traction:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29935172

    It's time to stop knocking EdM until February when it will be too late. The last thing we Conservatives need is a new Labour leader in their honeymoon period seducing voters.

    Andy Burnham is one of the least voter-genic politicians around: on a par with Michael Gove in terms of odiousness.

    Alan Johnson would be the big fear.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    The 6-1, 7-1 for Ed to stand down has been around for ages.

    In fact I'm on him at 1-7 to stay - since bookies tend to like an overround I'll assume that I'm on the right side of the bet still.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: The report Labour MPs are moving against Ed Miliband will have sent a shudder through Downing Street.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Yvette - been a while since there was a "something of the night" candidate in British Politics.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    edited November 2014
    I guess whoever this is will follow the traditional Labour pattern, exemplified by David Miliband, of striking a delicate balance designed to cause the maximum possible damage to the leadership while never doing anything concrete to actually change it.
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Ross Hawkins is married to the sister of one of my best friends.

    Very nice and clever girl she was too.

    Well done to him for getting the scoop.

    And I think it's all over for Ed, sadly. Writing has been on the wall for some time.

    The Tories could do with him staying in charge but when you have absolutely no media support (aside from Mary Riddell) and you just come across as someone who is never going to be PM, you're screwed.
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    Someone with Ed's "intellectual self confidence" (not to mention lack of self awareness)?

    Not a chance.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    From the BEEB

    "It is understood his leadership was also openly questioned at a meeting of Labour MPs from the north west of England earlier this week.

    Sources say they discussed moving to a defensive strategy in a bid to hold onto their seats, rather than fight an offensive one aimed winning the election.

    One MP told me: "People were openly saying the leadership is failing this and we've got a problem winning seats in May."

    Another normally loyal backbencher said: "I think there's been a sharp downturn in mood over the last few days."

    There was a mood, the backbencher said, that "we just can't go on like this".

    Ed Miliband is expected to directly address the criticism of his leadership on a regional visit later today.

    A Labour source said: "We have spent four years being united as a party in a determination to be a one-term opposition. We're not going to be distracted by noises-off"
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,289
    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 1m1 minute ago
    Ed Miliband in Northampton about to comment on bus regulation. No doubt Labour wants to stop them cuaisng fatal accidents to party leaders
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    Pong said:

    Who do the tories most fear as Ed's replacement?

    My guess is Andy Burnham.

    Burnham could be the man to save Labour from the looming catastrophe, they'll have to throw off custom and act ruthlessly if they want to reach 30 % next year.

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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Eurobarometer poll - Spring 2014. - fieldwork June 2014.

    "Our country could better face the future outside the EU" agree/disagree

    Italians (+42 / -40), Slovenians (+51 / -43), Cypriots (+51 / -41), and Brits (+45 / -36)

    Think they'd be better off outside the EU.

    France was quite pro-EU (+25 / -64)

    p.83 of PDF
    http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/eb/eb81/eb81_publ_en.pdf
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    There are Tory calls for Ed Miliband to not step down please...
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,289
    A Labour Party source has denied suggestions backbenchers are calling for Ed Miliband to quit as leader.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1368194/miliband-quit-claims-denied-by-labour-party
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Pong said:

    Who do the tories most fear as Ed's replacement?

    My guess is Andy Burnham.

    I think if they go with Yvette Cooper then the Tories will lose.

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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    dr_spyn said:

    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 1m1 minute ago
    Ed Miliband in Northampton about to comment on bus regulation. No doubt Labour wants to stop them cuaisng fatal accidents to party leaders

    'Bus regulation'

    No wonder he's in trouble.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,370
    Surely having to issue statements about it is a very bad sign.

    In recent times we have had:

    His embarrassment in Scotland pre-referendum.

    That speech.

    A drop of nearly 5% in the Labour average.

    Yet more trouble in Scotland.

    A mini reshuffle including a further narrowing of the range of insiders around Ed.

    An increasing level of ridicule in even the left/centre left press.

    A further collapse in his personal polling.

    None of this looks good but the Labour party didn't challenge Brown when he was wreaking the country; when he was paralysed by indecision and incompetence and when attack dogs (of the type Ed to his credit seems to have dispensed with) were wandering the corridors savaging cabinet ministers and everyone more junior at will.

    Labour really don't do decapitations. Do they?
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    Probably not the first time this has been said – but I really don’t see Alan Johnson as being the solution to the problem.

    Ed is safe, unless he chooses to step down - and I think that extremely unlikely.
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    "But increasingly, there is no need for Labour, either. Labour is perhaps more a party of London, these days, than either the Liberal Democrats or the Conservatives. It is led, ineptly, by someone who is almost the personification of effete, metropolitan-liberal milquetoast opinion (and yet who represents Doncaster, because Doncaster’s a safe seat, for a while). The party has become upper-middle-class and southern — all the while still raking in the votes from its old redoubts in the post-industrial north of the country. I wonder how long it will be able to do so."
    http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/9361412/ukip-is-a-party-for-people-who-hate-london-thats-why-labour-should-be-scared/
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2014
    The danger for Labour is if they replace him with someone more right wing their left would collapse even more spectacularly to the SNP and the Greens. The Red Liberals that returned to Labour will flee immediately to other more left wing parties.
    The problem with Labour is policies not leadership, it's leaking votes because it's base wants something more radical, and as a result of less support Ed's leadership ratings falls.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,289
    Margie B ‏@margielondon 1m1 minute ago
    LBC radio wants to hear from anybody who supports Ed Miliband (now live) http://www.lbc.co.uk/ < good luck with that. #SaveEd
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047
    Pong said:

    Who do the tories most fear as Ed's replacement?

    Vince Cable?
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    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    And now, the end is near, and so Ed faces the final curtain.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    Can a bookie price up a market for Ed to announce his resignation today with Yes and No at 5-6 on both sides pretty please ?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @LadPolitics: Andy Burnham cut from 6/1 to 4/ to be next Labour leader. http://t.co/0ZckuCW8YU
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    dr_spyn said:

    Margie B ‏@margielondon 1m1 minute ago
    LBC radio wants to hear from anybody who supports Ed Miliband (now live) http://www.lbc.co.uk/ < good luck with that. #SaveEd

    " We've got Dave from Westminster on the line."
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    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    Sky News are miffed that BBC have scooped them …
    http://news.sky.com/story/1368194/miliband-quit-claims-denied-by-labour-party

    Sour grapes Sky I'm afraid by looks of it.

    But I still pray this goes away.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Eurobarometer - October 2014

    "Having the Euro is a good or bad thing for your country?"

    France +53 / -37
    Italy +43 / -47
    Cyprus +42 / -46

    p.8 of PDF
    http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/flash/fl_405_en.pdf
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    Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,176
    Repost FPT:

    The plotting against EdM would have more credence if the polls were showing the Tories on 40% to Labour's 32-33%.

    But the Tories are on 30%, and UKIP's surge will hand Labour seats from the Tories by the bucketload. As it stands, Labour are heading back into office.

    On current polls, it's Cameron who has the problem.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    I was all for Ed being ousted a few weeks ago, but I'm now having second thoughts about what it will actually achieve. Sure, someone personable and "in touch" like Alan Johnson might add a few % to the Labour score, which might even be enough for them to scrape a win with the Tories STILL at their Omnishambles trough, but it's not going to solve any of their fundamental problems -- namely, what is actually the point of Labour, and what will a Labour government do that's substantially different to a Tory government.

    Even the most charismatic leader in the world would probably be seen as totally boring and uninteresting if they'd gone out of their way to not be "controversial" like Ed with his lack of policies over the past 4 years.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Pong said:

    Who do the tories most fear as Ed's replacement?

    Vince Cable?
    Or 'a pretty straight kind of guy'? The Middle East peace gig has bombed, so Tony must have time on his hands.
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    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2014
    Patrick said:

    There are Tory calls for Ed Miliband to not step down please...

    http://news.sky.com/story/1368194/miliband-quit-claims-denied-by-labour-party

    Laying off Conservatives just in case …

    We desperately need EdM to stay.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,289
    Rachel Babbage ‏@rachel_babbage 4m4 minutes ago
    Talking on bus policies in #northampton @Ed_Miliband

    Guido will love the picture...looks as if he is about to be run over by a bandwagon.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,370

    dr_spyn said:

    Margie B ‏@margielondon 1m1 minute ago
    LBC radio wants to hear from anybody who supports Ed Miliband (now live) http://www.lbc.co.uk/ < good luck with that. #SaveEd

    " We've got Dave from Westminster on the line."
    LOL. Excellent.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,983
    edited November 2014
    "It was the vote that did not quite dare to speak its name—but not any more. Voting Ukip has become a badge of defiance, non-conformity—pride, even—in the pubs of Yorkshire, particularly the post-industrial south and west, Labour’s traditional heartland. I suspect that much the same is true for northern England as a whole. You might call it the Wetherspoon Tendency.

    “There’s no shame in voting Ukip,” a building worker told me. “We want Ukip. He’ll sort all this immigration out. The Tories haven’t tackled it, nor Labour. And the unions are getting rubbished because immigrants don’t join unions.” It’s very often just “he,” meaning Nigel Farage. There is a strong sense of identification with “the man who speaks our language.”

    That’s the anecdotal evidence, but for those willing to read it, the writing was on the wall long before the tremor that shook Heywood and Middleton in last month’s by-election, where Ed Miliband almost lost a safe Westminster seat to his beer-swilling rival."

    http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/opinions/election-2015-how-can-labour-stop-ukip-in-the-north
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Speedy said:

    The danger for Labour is if they replace him with someone more right wing their left would collapse even more spectacularly to the SNP and the Greens. The Red Liberals that returned to Labour will flee immediately to other more left wing parties.
    The problem with Labour is policies not leadership, it's leaking votes because it's base wants something more radical, and as a result of less support Ed's leadership ratings falls.

    I agree with that but the reality is that electorate is full of normal, ordinary people who won't know much about the policies but will look at Ed Miliband and think "seriously?".

    I know it's incredibly unsophisticated. But I think like that too.

    I can't picture him in Downing Street. I've said it from the start.

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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Pulpstar said:

    Can a bookie price up a market for Ed to announce his resignation today with Yes and No at 5-6 on both sides pretty please ?

    Fond memories :)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    I assume we're not allowed to speculate on the front page of a certain trinity group newspaper here :) ?
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    dr_spyn said:

    Margie B ‏@margielondon 1m1 minute ago
    LBC radio wants to hear from anybody who supports Ed Miliband (now live) http://www.lbc.co.uk/ < good luck with that. #SaveEd

    " We've got Dave from Westminster on the line."
    Arf - cheers for the belly laugh..
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Fenster said:

    Pong said:

    Who do the tories most fear as Ed's replacement?

    My guess is Andy Burnham.

    I think if they go with Yvette Cooper then the Tories will lose.

    Only if she puts a bag on her head and never speaks between now and May - she is odious.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Looking for Ed's replacement really does show how weak the Shadow Cabinet is. When your big dogs are Harriet Harman and Ed Balls, and your up-and-comers are Tristram Hunt and Rachel Reeves, you know you're in trouble.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,289
    Did BBC really cut Miiband off from Northampton speech or are some lefties on Twitter paranoid?
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited November 2014
    No, but the Unions might. If there is a move against Ed Miliband, and Labour's big Union donors make it clear they will withdraw their support, then he might be in real trouble and be left with no alternative but to resign. I think that one of the main reasons that Brown managed to stay in place is because he managed to keep Unions like Unite on board right up until the GE. They seem determined to back their own candidate for the Scottish Labour Leadership contest right now as well.
    DavidL said:

    Surely having to issue statements about it is a very bad sign.

    In recent times we have had:

    His embarrassment in Scotland pre-referendum.

    That speech.

    A drop of nearly 5% in the Labour average.

    Yet more trouble in Scotland.

    A mini reshuffle including a further narrowing of the range of insiders around Ed.

    An increasing level of ridicule in even the left/centre left press.

    A further collapse in his personal polling.

    None of this looks good but the Labour party didn't challenge Brown when he was wreaking the country; when he was paralysed by indecision and incompetence and when attack dogs (of the type Ed to his credit seems to have dispensed with) were wandering the corridors savaging cabinet ministers and everyone more junior at will.

    Labour really don't do decapitations. Do they?

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    Repost FPT:

    The plotting against EdM would have more credence if the polls were showing the Tories on 40% to Labour's 32-33%.

    But the Tories are on 30%, and UKIP's surge will hand Labour seats from the Tories by the bucketload. As it stands, Labour are heading back into office.

    On current polls, it's Cameron who has the problem.

    But that's not what's happening, is it? He may have a bit of a problem with Rochester looming, but "Ed Miliband 'facing calls to quit'" is currently the most-read article on BBC news.

    It seems the Labour Party are fully signed up to swingback.
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    Labour, who couldn't even -- at great length and petulance -- give Brown the boot, getting rid of Ed?

    Please rearrange the following letters to make a well-known internet acronym: L,L,O.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2014
    Looks like someone took spreadex by surprise...

    They've cut their odds on Yvette Cooper for next prime minister from 28/1 all the way down to..................... 1/3!
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    edited November 2014
    Fenster said:

    Pong said:

    Who do the tories most fear as Ed's replacement?

    My guess is Andy Burnham.

    I think if they go with Yvette Cooper then the Tories will lose.

    Yep - as mentioned in a previous post. Yvette vs Theresa, leader to leader (which is PM which is LotO?? Ha...!) is an eminently seeable PMQs.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Fenster said:

    Speedy said:

    The danger for Labour is if they replace him with someone more right wing their left would collapse even more spectacularly to the SNP and the Greens. The Red Liberals that returned to Labour will flee immediately to other more left wing parties.
    The problem with Labour is policies not leadership, it's leaking votes because it's base wants something more radical, and as a result of less support Ed's leadership ratings falls.

    I agree with that but the reality is that electorate is full of normal, ordinary people who won't know much about the policies but will look at Ed Miliband and think "seriously?".

    I know it's incredibly unsophisticated. But I think like that too.

    I can't picture him in Downing Street. I've said it from the start.

    As I said because he's ugly doesn't means he's not capable.
    I judge politicians based on merits not handsomeness.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,983
    Ah "Samonipad" what a guy!

    Funny how "tim" only appears when quoted by someone else.. why is that?
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,515
    @Socrates -I emailed your idea to the most relevant person, got a quick response -they will make enquiries and keep me posted.
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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,005
    Danny565 said:

    I was all for Ed being ousted a few weeks ago, but I'm now having second thoughts about what it will actually achieve. Sure, someone personable and "in touch" like Alan Johnson might add a few % to the Labour score, which might even be enough for them to scrape a win with the Tories STILL at their Omnishambles trough, but it's not going to solve any of their fundamental problems -- namely, what is actually the point of Labour, and what will a Labour government do that's substantially different to a Tory government.

    Even the most charismatic leader in the world would probably be seen as totally boring and uninteresting if they'd gone out of their way to not be "controversial" like Ed with his lack of policies over the past 4 years.

    You've put your finger on why Ed is seen as such an abject failure. He was elected to bring the curtain down on New Labour, and to rejuvenate the party and give it a new direction. Instead he's done nothing, just sat back thinking that the rise of UKIP would help Labour win in 2015. However, it's now become clear that this 'strategy' has eroded the core support catastrophically with the party leaking votes everywhere to the Greens, SNP and most ironically of all to UKIP.
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    Socrates said:

    Looking for Ed's replacement really does show how weak the Shadow Cabinet is. When your big dogs are Harriet Harman and Ed Balls, and your up-and-comers are Tristram Hunt and Rachel Reeves, you know you're in trouble.

    Ah, Rachel... :)
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    FPT
    BenM said:

    Talk about picking out niff naff and trivia. The facts don't support the hysterical anti-immigration case regardless of consituent elements.

    @BenM are second generation immigrants, ie those born in the UK whose parents were born abroad, considered to be natives? Or are they immigrants? Or are they a bit of both?

    And is this question niff naff and trivia, and am I a hysterical anti-immigrant for asking?
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited November 2014
    DavidL said:

    None of this looks good but the Labour party didn't challenge Brown when he was wreaking the country; when he was paralysed by indecision and incompetence and when attack dogs (of the type Ed to his credit seems to have dispensed with) were wandering the corridors savaging cabinet ministers and everyone more junior at will.

    Labour really don't do decapitations. Do they?

    I would say Ed is definitely in a worse position than Brown was before the 2010GE. While Brown got more personal animosity from people, people still often had atleast a grudging respect for him, and there was a vague sense he was keen on giving help to the poorest. The most damaging thing for Ed is that people don't think he stands for anything at all. They just see him as a career politician jockeying (badly) for a job for himself, without having any reasons for WHY he'd want the job.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Betfair have a leaders market at the next GE - not dependant on who would take over..

    "Cameron only" is 16/1
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    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    I suspect the manoeuvrings against Ed Miliband are part of a long-term betting coup to re-install Tony Blair as his price must reflect that at only 33-1.It has all the hallmarks of the black arts of Mandelson setting things up for a return of the Messiah.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited November 2014

    @Socrates -I emailed your idea to the most relevant person, got a quick response -they will make enquiries and keep me posted.

    Very cool. Keep me updated.

    I have a feeling they might be selling the poppies off, but I'm sure they could make them again for next year.
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    isam said:


    “There’s no shame in voting Ukip,” a building worker told me. “We want Ukip. He’ll sort all this immigration out

    Still believe in shy UKIP?
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    isamisam Posts: 40,983
    edited November 2014
    Pong said:

    Looks like someone took spreadex by surprise...

    They've cut their odds on Yvette Cooper for next prime minister from 28/1 all the way down to..................... 1/3!

    Hmm might be more value in the 3/1 she is next Labour leader!

    Reasssuring to see Diane Abbot at 100/1 for that, same as Owen Jones and Mehdi Hasan
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Danny565 said:

    They just see him as a career politician jockeying (badly) for a job for himself, without having any reasons for WHY he'd want the job.

    Why do you want to be Prime Minister, Ed?

    Well, I knifed my brother to get the chance...
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    Speedy said:

    Fenster said:

    Speedy said:

    The danger for Labour is if they replace him with someone more right wing their left would collapse even more spectacularly to the SNP and the Greens. The Red Liberals that returned to Labour will flee immediately to other more left wing parties.
    The problem with Labour is policies not leadership, it's leaking votes because it's base wants something more radical, and as a result of less support Ed's leadership ratings falls.

    I agree with that but the reality is that electorate is full of normal, ordinary people who won't know much about the policies but will look at Ed Miliband and think "seriously?".

    I know it's incredibly unsophisticated. But I think like that too.

    I can't picture him in Downing Street. I've said it from the start.

    As I said because he's ugly doesn't means he's not capable.
    I judge politicians based on merits not handsomeness.
    Thinking the problem with Ed Miliband is about looks is pure deflection. His issues are much much deeper than his (admittedly awful) looks.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    I suspect the manoeuvrings against Ed Miliband are part of a long-term betting coup to re-install Tony Blair as his price must reflect that at only 33-1.It has all the hallmarks of the black arts of Mandelson setting things up for a return of the Messiah.

    I would be happy if Tony Blair challenged Milliband for the leadership, Milliband would win by a landslide.
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    Apologies if already posted:

    YouGov (4-5 Nov):

    Does you support or oppose the Coalition Agreement between LibDems and Tories?

    Total support 26%
    Total oppose 64%
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    Danny565 said:

    DavidL said:

    None of this looks good but the Labour party didn't challenge Brown when he was wreaking the country; when he was paralysed by indecision and incompetence and when attack dogs (of the type Ed to his credit seems to have dispensed with) were wandering the corridors savaging cabinet ministers and everyone more junior at will.

    Labour really don't do decapitations. Do they?

    I would say Ed is definitely in a worse position than Brown was before the 2010GE. While Brown got more personal animosity from people, people still often had atleast a grudging respect for him, and there was a vague sense he was keen on giving help to the poorest. The most damaging thing for Ed is that people don't think he stands for anything at all. They just see him as a career politician jockeying (badly) for a job for himself, without having any reasons for WHY he'd want the job.
    Furthermore, people could imagine Brown as Prime Minister. Admittedly, only because he was already, but that's still a significant advantage.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,515
    Socrates said:

    @Socrates -I emailed your idea to the most relevant person, got a quick response -they will make enquiries and keep me posted.

    Very cool. Keep me updated.
    It ties in with efforts to get more 'big' stuff to come here -I think it still probably won't happen, but I think that's more likely to be because the organisers don't want to repeat a centenary event (your initial gripe) rather than Edinburgh not being up for it.

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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited November 2014

    isam said:


    “There’s no shame in voting Ukip,” a building worker told me. “We want Ukip. He’ll sort all this immigration out

    Still believe in shy UKIP?
    In the polls?

    Survation are the only pollster that prompt for UKIP. All the others skew results towards Con/Lab/LD by prompting for those options, and not UKIP.

    When ComRes tried both approaches they found a 5 point difference in the UKIP share. Standard prompt: UKIP 19%, include UKIP prompt: UKIP 24%.

    http://www.comres.co.uk/poll/1293/sunday-mirror-independent-on-sunday-poll.htm
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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,005

    I suspect the manoeuvrings against Ed Miliband are part of a long-term betting coup to re-install Tony Blair as his price must reflect that at only 33-1.It has all the hallmarks of the black arts of Mandelson setting things up for a return of the Messiah.

    The Jesus Christ of Nazareth is more likely to make a second coming in 2015 than Tony Blair.
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    If Ed was defenestrated would he quit as an MP, or would he take the IDS route? Could David be parachuted into Doncaster North?
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    FPT

    BenM said:

    Talk about picking out niff naff and trivia. The facts don't support the hysterical anti-immigration case regardless of consituent elements.

    @BenM are second generation immigrants, ie those born in the UK whose parents were born abroad, considered to be natives? Or are they immigrants? Or are they a bit of both?

    And is this question niff naff and trivia, and am I a hysterical anti-immigrant for asking?
    If you are born in the UK you are a native.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,983

    isam said:


    “There’s no shame in voting Ukip,” a building worker told me. “We want Ukip. He’ll sort all this immigration out

    Still believe in shy UKIP?
    Yep
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    isam said:

    Pong said:

    Looks like someone took spreadex by surprise...

    They've cut their odds on Yvette Cooper for next prime minister from 28/1 all the way down to..................... 1/3!

    Hmm might be more value in the 3/1 she is next Labour leader!

    Reasssuring to see Diane Abbot at 100/1 for that, same as Owen Jones and Mehdi Hasan
    Diane Abbot PM, Owen Jones CoTE, Mehdi Hasan Foreign Secretary.

    Well it would solve the immigration problems of the country fairly quickly anyway.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    I think this thread is an indication on why Ed Milliband needs to turn Labour back to it's old socialist days.
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    isam said:


    “There’s no shame in voting Ukip,” a building worker told me. “We want Ukip. He’ll sort all this immigration out

    Still believe in shy UKIP?
    I'm shy [blushes]
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    Labour was happy to talk about personal appearance when it was Blair facing Major, Hague and Howard.

    Brown takes over, and suddenly it's "the electorate is interested in substance, not style."
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    edited November 2014
    AC-DC Drummer Phil Rudd murder plot currently top of BBC "Most read"

    #SaveEd
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    isam said:


    “There’s no shame in voting Ukip,” a building worker told me. “We want Ukip. He’ll sort all this immigration out

    Still believe in shy UKIP?
    In the polls?

    Survation are the only pollster that prompt for UKIP. All the others skew results towards Con/Lab/LD by prompting for those options, and not UKIP.

    When ComRes tried both approaches they found a 5 point difference in the UKIP share.

    http://www.comres.co.uk/poll/1293/sunday-mirror-independent-on-sunday-poll.htm
    Yes - and as you point out, that's a function of methodology - the case for it being "shyness" is far from proven.....
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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,005

    Danny565 said:

    DavidL said:

    None of this looks good but the Labour party didn't challenge Brown when he was wreaking the country; when he was paralysed by indecision and incompetence and when attack dogs (of the type Ed to his credit seems to have dispensed with) were wandering the corridors savaging cabinet ministers and everyone more junior at will.

    Labour really don't do decapitations. Do they?

    I would say Ed is definitely in a worse position than Brown was before the 2010GE. While Brown got more personal animosity from people, people still often had atleast a grudging respect for him, and there was a vague sense he was keen on giving help to the poorest. The most damaging thing for Ed is that people don't think he stands for anything at all. They just see him as a career politician jockeying (badly) for a job for himself, without having any reasons for WHY he'd want the job.
    Furthermore, people could imagine Brown as Prime Minister. Admittedly, only because he was already, but that's still a significant advantage.
    Brown was genuinely frightening. No one is scared of Ed.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Choose Cooper and get Balls is a prospect that to many may seem worse than the current situation.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,370
    The blank piece of paper was always a huge mistake and I said so at the time. Labour needed to think and debate carefully what they were for and what sort of a future they believed in. That might have looked divided and messy from time to time but so what? If the outcome was a credible policy for government they simply would not be in the situation they are now.

    And there is room for a credible left/centre left agenda for this country. Inequality is at outrageous levels. Social mobility is grinding to a halt. There is a proper debate to be had as to whether the deficit should be cut by falling spending or increased taxation. Our housing policies are still a mess. What are our priorities in terms of what we spend? If privatisation is a bad thing how do we get more public services for the same money? So many serious and proper issues. So few answers.

    But whatever your answers none of that matters unless you are fit to govern. If you are not it becomes meaningless gesture politics, occasionally popular but ultimately futile. And that is where Ed has led Labour. It has been a dereliction of duty.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    Labour was happy to talk about personal appearance when it was Blair facing Major, Hague and Howard.

    Brown takes over, and suddenly it's "the electorate is interested in substance, not style."

    The 2005 GE campaigns were utterly vile from both Labour and the Tories.

    I voted for Charlie !
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    FPT

    BenM said:

    Talk about picking out niff naff and trivia. The facts don't support the hysterical anti-immigration case regardless of consituent elements.

    @BenM are second generation immigrants, ie those born in the UK whose parents were born abroad, considered to be natives? Or are they immigrants? Or are they a bit of both?

    And is this question niff naff and trivia, and am I a hysterical anti-immigrant for asking?
    If you are born in the UK you are a native.
    I find it astonishing that that question is even asked!

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    isamisam Posts: 40,983
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pong said:

    Looks like someone took spreadex by surprise...

    They've cut their odds on Yvette Cooper for next prime minister from 28/1 all the way down to..................... 1/3!

    Hmm might be more value in the 3/1 she is next Labour leader!

    Reasssuring to see Diane Abbot at 100/1 for that, same as Owen Jones and Mehdi Hasan
    Diane Abbot PM, Owen Jones CoTE, Mehdi Hasan Foreign Secretary.

    Well it would solve the immigration problems of the country fairly quickly anyway.
    Dear me.. no one would want to come here and everyone would want to leave!
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Speedy said:

    Fenster said:

    Speedy said:

    The danger for Labour is if they replace him with someone more right wing their left would collapse even more spectacularly to the SNP and the Greens. The Red Liberals that returned to Labour will flee immediately to other more left wing parties.
    The problem with Labour is policies not leadership, it's leaking votes because it's base wants something more radical, and as a result of less support Ed's leadership ratings falls.

    I agree with that but the reality is that electorate is full of normal, ordinary people who won't know much about the policies but will look at Ed Miliband and think "seriously?".

    I know it's incredibly unsophisticated. But I think like that too.

    I can't picture him in Downing Street. I've said it from the start.

    As I said because he's ugly doesn't means he's not capable.
    I judge politicians based on merits not handsomeness.
    I wasn't on about his looks. Let's be honest, he's better looking than Brown. I mean his disposition, his geekiness, his funny way of talking.

    I have always thought he comes across a nice, decent, polite, intelligent, slightly weird backroom staffer. Perfect Treasury Spad type. Not a PM.

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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Pulpstar said:

    AC-DC Drummer Phil Rudd murder plot currently top of BBC "Most read"

    http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/acdc-drummer-phil-rudd-gets-charged-with-attempting-to-procure-a-murder-20141106-11hs1u.html

    Isn't that a mystery.
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    McBride chips in:

    "I think the mood is pretty black in Labour. And certainly since party conference the mood has got blacker."

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29937654
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    "...the rules for getting rid of an incumbent make it much harder than..."

    No they don't; they make it impossible.

    The opportunity for a putsch has gone. It would have been only possible prior to the last annual conference.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    AC-DC Drummer Phil Rudd murder plot currently top of BBC "Most read"

    #SaveEd

    Current affairs ?

    Reaches for coat..
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,997
    This is poor reporting by Ross Hawkins.

    I eagerly clicked on the story to find out some new facts and there aren't any. It is not a news story. You could make up a similar piece on discontent with the leadership in the Tory or LibDem party.

    This sentence is typical of the piece:

    "Privately some MPs are said to think the party is in "meltdown"."

    Privately (unattrributable) some MPs are said (rumour) to think (inside their heads) the party is in "meltdown" (OTT).

    I don't think it is biased reporting, just poor reporting.
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    isam said:


    “There’s no shame in voting Ukip,” a building worker told me. “We want Ukip. He’ll sort all this immigration out

    Still believe in shy UKIP?
    1. Some UKIP voters are not shy -> all UKIP voters are not shy.

    2. Some trees are evergreen -> all trees are evergreen.

    You do realise that your argument can be stated as 1. above and that it is exactly as valid as 2., do you?
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    audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376

    I suspect the manoeuvrings against Ed Miliband are part of a long-term betting coup to re-install Tony Blair as his price must reflect that at only 33-1.It has all the hallmarks of the black arts of Mandelson setting things up for a return of the Messiah.

    The Jesus Christ of Nazareth is more likely to make a second coming in 2015 than Tony Blair.
    One and the same thing in Tony's eyes.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pong said:

    Looks like someone took spreadex by surprise...

    They've cut their odds on Yvette Cooper for next prime minister from 28/1 all the way down to..................... 1/3!

    Hmm might be more value in the 3/1 she is next Labour leader!

    Reasssuring to see Diane Abbot at 100/1 for that, same as Owen Jones and Mehdi Hasan
    Diane Abbot PM, Owen Jones CoTE, Mehdi Hasan Foreign Secretary.

    Well it would solve the immigration problems of the country fairly quickly anyway.
    Dear me.. no one would want to come here and everyone would want to leave!
    The queues at Heathrow, Manchester and Gatwick would be formidable.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,518
    edited November 2014
    The general election is 6 months tomorrow. Nevertheless, I do wonder if Ed Miliband is so crap they might actually do something about it this time.

    The key is to see if Labour's big beasts come out supporting him in the next 24 hours.
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    Whilst Ed Balls is unpopular in the country, isn't he sufficiently popular within Labour MPs, members and trade unionists to justify shorter odds than 18/1 to be next leader?
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    isam said:


    “There’s no shame in voting Ukip,” a building worker told me. “We want Ukip. He’ll sort all this immigration out

    Still believe in shy UKIP?
    I'm shy [blushes]
    Shy trainspotters I understand......;-)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    McBride chips in:

    "I think the mood is pretty black in Labour. And certainly since party conference the mood has got blacker."

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29937654

    Comment from Mandelson next ?
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    The Labour party let Michael Foot and Gordon Brown lead them into general elections. I expect that they'll let Ed Miliband do so as well.

    It's curious in all the talk of unity candidates that no one mentions the Deputy Leader as a possibility.
This discussion has been closed.