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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If there’s no referendum on the Osborne plan for an elected mayor for Greater Manchester it could set difficult precdents

The big announcement from George Osborne today has been that Greater Manchester is to have an elected mayor who’ll preside over regional issues. This has been agreed with leaders of 10 councils in the region. The plan is for the new mayor to oversee policies like transport, social care and housing. Also police budgets will be included.

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TheScreamingEagles

I'm tempted to stand

Anorak

Undemocratic and likely to be portrayed as wasteful. (By "likely to be", I of course mean "will bloody obviously be").

TSE: you could try and be the UKIP candidate. You might stand a chance as they scramble to prove they are not racist. Then you destroy them from within!

dr_spyn

Bristol could sell them a used Mayor, complete with red trousers.

Socrates

I'm on the fence. Major constitutional change should require a referendum, but not sure changes in local government structures counts as "major".

Anyway, it will be a huge benefit for Manchester. Leeds, Liverpool and Birmingham could be left behind.

Anorak

Socrates said:

I'm on the fence. Major constitutional change should require a referendum, but not sure changes in local government structures counts as "major".

Anyway, it will be a huge benefit for Manchester. Leeds, Liverpool and Birmingham could be left behind.

Given you can walk Manchester to Liverpool without setting foot in a field, you might as well have a single mayor for the whole conurbation. The cities have a lot more in common than either one would [ever, ever, ever] admit. And that's after excluding the tendency toward petty criminality.

"Liverchester" or "Manpool".

isam

"Kodak once meant cameras. From the moment George Eastman launched the first Kodak camera in 1888, Kodak had a dominant market share. By the Seventies, more than 90 per cent of camera film products sold in the US were made by Kodak. People even spoke of taking family photographs as capturing that “Kodak moment”. Then came digital cameras. The established market monolith could not keep up with the new, nimble competitors. By 2012 Kodak filed for bankruptcy.

For generations, politics in Britain meant voting Labour or Conservative — or occasionally Lib-Dem. In election after election, these three big players took the lion’s share of votes. Now comes digital, and it is going to do to these the established monoliths what digital did to Kodak."

http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/douglas-carswell-digital-democracy-leaves-the-big-parties-behind-9835591.html?origin=internalSearch

MikeSmithson

I'm a great believer in elected mayors. We have one of the few ones in Bedford where I live and it makes the whole political process look and feel far more accountable.

But the decision to have one was decided in a referendum.

Sunil_Prasannan

FPT

Labour drop in the polls while UKIP rise? Coincidence?

Sunil Prasannan ‏@Sunil_P2 · 17h17 hours ago
Sunil on Sunday's ELBOW (Electoral Leader-Board Of the Week) update 2nd Nov. Lab 32.9%, Con 32.2, UKIP 16.3, LD 7.5

https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/529018633784406016

Socrates

"But in order to introduce major changes, the mayor will still need the support of two thirds of the combined authority's leaders."

That's very different to London, isn't it?

MaxPB

FPT:

Socrates said:

Boris Johnson supports free movement between the UK, Australia and New Zealand:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/let-australians-live-and-work-in-britain-london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-migration-report-20141103-11fwfn.html

I would add South Africa, Canada and the US into the mix as well.

MikeK

Oooh-ah! Revolt on the Right continues apace:

http://conservativewoman.co.uk/camerons-tories-are-no-different-to-labour/

Words that are balm to kippers.

Peter_the_Punter

Anorak said:

Socrates said:

I'm on the fence. Major constitutional change should require a referendum, but not sure changes in local government structures counts as "major".

Anyway, it will be a huge benefit for Manchester. Leeds, Liverpool and Birmingham could be left behind.

Given you can walk Manchester to Liverpool without setting foot in a field, you might as well have a single mayor for the whole conurbation. The cities have a lot more in common than either one would [ever, ever, ever] admit. And that's after excluding the tendency toward petty criminality.

"Liverchester" or "Manpool".

Perhaps they could merge their football teams too, and have one decent one instead of..... [dons tin hat.]

Sunil_Prasannan

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm tempted to stand

You could stand as Darth Vader like that bloke in Ukraine

Sunil_Prasannan

MaxPB said:

FPT:

Socrates said:

Boris Johnson supports free movement between the UK, Australia and New Zealand:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/let-australians-live-and-work-in-britain-london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-migration-report-20141103-11fwfn.html

I would add South Africa, Canada and the US into the mix as well.

Isn't SA majority black? How about the other majority BME Commonwealth nations?

MaxPB

Agreed with Mike on the topic. There should be a referendum for the whole of the Greater Manchester area before introducing a mayor and new layer of local government.

Pulpstar

MikeSmithson said:

I'm a great believer in elected mayors. We have one of the few ones in Bedford where I live and it makes the whole political process look and feel far more accountable.

But the decision to have one was decided in a referendum.

Mayoral referendums lost in Sheffield, Manchester and Coventry off the top of my head.

MikeK

isam said:

"Kodak once meant cameras. From the moment George Eastman launched the first Kodak camera in 1888, Kodak had a dominant market share. By the Seventies, more than 90 per cent of camera film products sold in the US were made by Kodak. People even spoke of taking family photographs as capturing that “Kodak moment”. Then came digital cameras. The established market monolith could not keep up with the new, nimble competitors. By 2012 Kodak filed for bankruptcy.

For generations, politics in Britain meant voting Labour or Conservative — or occasionally Lib-Dem. In election after election, these three big players took the lion’s share of votes. Now comes digital, and it is going to do to these the established monoliths what digital did to Kodak."

http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/douglas-carswell-digital-democracy-leaves-the-big-parties-behind-9835591.html?origin=internalSearch

@isam
....now comes digital? Surely you mean now come UKIP.

Socrates

Peter_the_Punter said:

Anorak said:

Socrates said:

I'm on the fence. Major constitutional change should require a referendum, but not sure changes in local government structures counts as "major".

Anyway, it will be a huge benefit for Manchester. Leeds, Liverpool and Birmingham could be left behind.

Given you can walk Manchester to Liverpool without setting foot in a field, you might as well have a single mayor for the whole conurbation. The cities have a lot more in common than either one would [ever, ever, ever] admit. And that's after excluding the tendency toward petty criminality.

"Liverchester" or "Manpool".

Perhaps they could merge their football teams too, and have one decent one instead of..... [dons tin hat.]

Given that the Mersey runs through Stockport, you could name the place "Greater Merseyside".

Sunil_Prasannan

Pulpstar said:

MikeSmithson said:

I'm a great believer in elected mayors. We have one of the few ones in Bedford where I live and it makes the whole political process look and feel far more accountable.

But the decision to have one was decided in a referendum.

Mayoral referendums lost in Sheffield, Manchester and Coventry off the top of my head.

Quite a few places:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_mayoral_referendums,_2012

OldKingCole

What on earth has it to do with the Chancellor. What’s behind giving this Cabinet Member the duty to make this announcement?

Also, as Mr Soctrates indicates, there are going to be considerable problems in decison making, with 66% of the “subsidiary” leaders having to agree.

TheScreamingEagles

Anorak said:

Undemocratic and likely to be portrayed as wasteful. (By "likely to be", I of course mean "will bloody obviously be").

TSE: you could try and be the UKIP candidate. You might stand a chance as they scramble to prove they are not racist. Then you destroy them from within!

I'd have no chance in UKIP, with their economic protectionism and socialism.

Plus the polling shows that UKIPers are biased against men of Asian heritage than members of other parties.

Socrates

OldKingCole said:

What on earth has it to do with the Chancellor. What’s behind giving this Cabinet Member the duty to make this announcement?

Also, as Mr Soctrates indicates, there are going to be considerable problems in decison making, with 66% of the “subsidiary” leaders having to agree.

Hopefully, it will allow a Greater Manchester identity to develop, and that will allow a future government to move the borough leaders veto to an elected Greater Manchester Assembly.

MikeK

Remember, tomorrow the US mid term elections start.

I'm betting a small GOP surge where it counts.

philiph

isam said:

"Kodak once meant cameras. From the moment George Eastman launched the first Kodak camera in 1888, Kodak had a dominant market share. By the Seventies, more than 90 per cent of camera film products sold in the US were made by Kodak. People even spoke of taking family photographs as capturing that “Kodak moment”. Then came digital cameras. The established market monolith could not keep up with the new, nimble competitors. By 2012 Kodak filed for bankruptcy.

For generations, politics in Britain meant voting Labour or Conservative — or occasionally Lib-Dem. In election after election, these three big players took the lion’s share of votes. Now comes digital, and it is going to do to these the established monoliths what digital did to Kodak."

http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/douglas-carswell-digital-democracy-leaves-the-big-parties-behind-9835591.html?origin=internalSearch

It isn't going to do quiet the same thing.

With digital comes greater exposure for all minorities. Pressure groups, flash mobs, social media and such will create a fast and impact laden exposure for causes of the left, right, centre and everywhere else.

There will be more and more fracturing, more difficulties in holding together the broad coalition that is the traditional bedrock of the larger parties. Because of the exposure and increased scrutiny and the speed at which pressure can be exerted it will become increasingly difficult for a new major player to get a long term foothold.

As a new party gains support it by definition has to shed the aura of new, insurgent and it becomes seen as one of the existing problems.

Kodak was replaced by digital, a whole new technology. Pressure groups will struggle to replace major parties, as they are not broad based and able to form governments. The current parties haven't learnt to adapt and be fleet footed in the modern era. They blunder around following, but I suspect they will continue to survive in an evolved form for a few more decades yet.

AlastairMeeks

If I had voted in a referendum two years ago opposing more jobs for the boys, I'd be pretty hacked off to find that the boys had decided they were going to create a new job for a boy anyway.

It's remarkable how politicians always seem to think that the solution to this country's problems involves more politicians.

Sunil_Prasannan

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anorak said:

Undemocratic and likely to be portrayed as wasteful. (By "likely to be", I of course mean "will bloody obviously be").

TSE: you could try and be the UKIP candidate. You might stand a chance as they scramble to prove they are not racist. Then you destroy them from within!

I'd have no chance in UKIP, with their economic protectionism and socialism.

Plus the polling shows that UKIPers are biased against men of Asian heritage than members of other parties.

Nonsense - I voted UKIP for the Euro Elections

MaxPB

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MaxPB said:

FPT:

Socrates said:

Boris Johnson supports free movement between the UK, Australia and New Zealand:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/let-australians-live-and-work-in-britain-london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-migration-report-20141103-11fwfn.html

I would add South Africa, Canada and the US into the mix as well.

Isn't SA majority black? How about the other majority BME Commonwealth nations?

Does it make a difference if SA is majority black? They have a skilled workforce and they all speak English to a good standard, and it would allow better and more investment by the UK in SA as well.

JonnyJimmy

MikeK said:

Oooh-ah! Revolt on the Right continues apace:

http://conservativewoman.co.uk/camerons-tories-are-no-different-to-labour/

Words that are balm to kippers.

You know the author of that piece is a 9/11 "truther"?

TheScreamingEagles

antifrank said:

If I had voted in a referendum two years ago opposing more jobs for the boys, I'd be pretty hacked off to find that the boys had decided they were going to create a new job for a boy anyway.

It's remarkable how politicians always seem to think that the solution to this country's problems involves more politicians.

I voted no two years ago, but actually I'm quite happy with this.

My objections that the original plan for a Mayor of Manchester, whereas I wanted a Mayor for Greater Manchester.

Sunil_Prasannan

MaxPB said:

Agreed with Mike on the topic. There should be a referendum for the whole of the Greater Manchester area before introducing a mayor and new layer of local government.

Yes, like there was for the whole of Greater London in 1998.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_London_Authority_referendum,_1998

I've voted in two referenda, that 1998 one for Mayor in London, and the 2011 AV referendum

TheScreamingEagles

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anorak said:

Undemocratic and likely to be portrayed as wasteful. (By "likely to be", I of course mean "will bloody obviously be").

TSE: you could try and be the UKIP candidate. You might stand a chance as they scramble to prove they are not racist. Then you destroy them from within!

I'd have no chance in UKIP, with their economic protectionism and socialism.

Plus the polling shows that UKIPers are biased against men of Asian heritage than members of other parties.

Nonsense - I voted UKIP for the Euro Elections

You're just one voter, I'm talking about the Kippers as a whole.

david_herdson

I'm not sure the two situations are directly comparable. The idea that the City of Manchester Council represents what is commonly thought of as the city of Manchester is one that's frequently heard on the media and wholly wrong when in reality it covers just a small part of city in its geographical sense. The difference between what's being proposed now and what was proposed then is akin to the difference between a Mayor of London and an elected Mayor of Southwark (for example).

Manchester is unique outside London in having split local authorities in this way (Birmingham, Leeds, Glasgow or Cardiff don't, for example). The only close parallel would be Newcastle-Gateshead, but there even though clearly one geographic entity, there is much more of a distinct identity between the two next-door neighbours.

Should there be a referendum? It might be better if there was but we should remember that when elected mayors first came in, councils could choose to adopt that model without the need to go to the public and if there is such strong backing from the authorities of the area, that amounts to much the same thing.

Pulpstar

antifrank said:

If I had voted in a referendum two years ago opposing more jobs for the boys, I'd be pretty hacked off to find that the boys had decided they were going to create a new job for a boy anyway.

It's remarkable how politicians always seem to think that the solution to this country's problems involves more politicians.

"Even though civic leaders from the region, perhaps attracted by the prospect of extra resources"

"Extra resources ?" are we sure ?

TheScreamingEagles

I was unable to find that beggar.

I did find a couple of beggars offering to sell me the latest iPhone for £200 though

Sunil_Prasannan

MaxPB said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MaxPB said:

FPT:

Socrates said:

Boris Johnson supports free movement between the UK, Australia and New Zealand:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/let-australians-live-and-work-in-britain-london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-migration-report-20141103-11fwfn.html

I would add South Africa, Canada and the US into the mix as well.

Isn't SA majority black? How about the other majority BME Commonwealth nations?

Does it make a difference if SA is majority black? They have a skilled workforce and they all speak English to a good standard, and it would allow better and more investment by the UK in SA as well.

I didn't say I had a problem. But how about the other majority BME Commonwealth nations? Will they be discriminated against under your plan?

AlastairMeeks

TheScreamingEagles said:

I was unable to find that beggar.

I did find a couple of beggars offering to sell me the latest iPhone for £200 though

As a definitional point, if they're offering to sell you something, they're no longer beggars. Hawkers, maybe.

TheScreamingEagles

Pulpstar said:

antifrank said:

If I had voted in a referendum two years ago opposing more jobs for the boys, I'd be pretty hacked off to find that the boys had decided they were going to create a new job for a boy anyway.

It's remarkable how politicians always seem to think that the solution to this country's problems involves more politicians.

"Even though civic leaders from the region, perhaps attracted by the prospect of extra resources"

"Extra resources ?" are we sure ?

Yeah, like the Tram funding.

George Osborne is very popular in Manchester.

The rapid expansion has been partly funded by an innovative deal the Greater Manchester combined authority struck with central government. Under Earn Back, a “revolving infrastructure fund”, the government funds infrastructure projects which the local authority promises will generate economic growth. The Treasury is happy because this growth generates tax revenues through greater employment, business rates and greater prosperity – a proportion of which the exchequer gives back to Greater Manchester, allowing it to reinvest and develop further schemes.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/02/manchester-metrolink-line-opens-ahead-schedule

Sunil_Prasannan

TheScreamingEagles said:

I was unable to find that beggar.

I did find a couple of beggars offering to sell me the latest iPhone for £200 though

Did they charge you a Roma-ing Fee?

(I'll get me coat...)

MikeK

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anorak said:

Undemocratic and likely to be portrayed as wasteful. (By "likely to be", I of course mean "will bloody obviously be").

TSE: you could try and be the UKIP candidate. You might stand a chance as they scramble to prove they are not racist. Then you destroy them from within!

I'd have no chance in UKIP, with their economic protectionism and socialism.

Plus the polling shows that UKIPers are biased against men of Asian heritage than members of other parties.

That last piece of of shit from your pen, was just that,shit! UKIP are not racist and have many members from asian backgrounds of good standing in its ranks. The only thing we hate and abhor is religious extremism, like Jihadism.

Sunil_Prasannan

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anorak said:

Undemocratic and likely to be portrayed as wasteful. (By "likely to be", I of course mean "will bloody obviously be").

TSE: you could try and be the UKIP candidate. You might stand a chance as they scramble to prove they are not racist. Then you destroy them from within!

I'd have no chance in UKIP, with their economic protectionism and socialism.

Plus the polling shows that UKIPers are biased against men of Asian heritage than members of other parties.

Nonsense - I voted UKIP for the Euro Elections

You're just one voter, I'm talking about the Kippers as a whole.

By bias against "Asian" men, do you actually mean "Muslim"?

TheScreamingEagles

MikeK said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anorak said:

Undemocratic and likely to be portrayed as wasteful. (By "likely to be", I of course mean "will bloody obviously be").

TSE: you could try and be the UKIP candidate. You might stand a chance as they scramble to prove they are not racist. Then you destroy them from within!

I'd have no chance in UKIP, with their economic protectionism and socialism.

Plus the polling shows that UKIPers are biased against men of Asian heritage than members of other parties.

That last piece of of shit from your pen, was just that,shit! UKIP are not racist and have many members from asian backgrounds of good standing in its ranks. The only thing we hate and abhor is religious extremism, like Jihadism.

I'm basing my "shit" from actual polling.

I didn't say they were racist, just biased in their perceptions of Asian men.

JonnyJimmy

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MaxPB said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MaxPB said:

FPT:

Socrates said:

Boris Johnson supports free movement between the UK, Australia and New Zealand:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/let-australians-live-and-work-in-britain-london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-migration-report-20141103-11fwfn.html

I would add South Africa, Canada and the US into the mix as well.

Isn't SA majority black? How about the other majority BME Commonwealth nations?

Does it make a difference if SA is majority black? They have a skilled workforce and they all speak English to a good standard, and it would allow better and more investment by the UK in SA as well.

I didn't say I had a problem. But how about the other majority BME Commonwealth nations? Will they be discriminated against under your plan?

Majority BME? Oxymoron alert..

Socrates

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anorak said:

Undemocratic and likely to be portrayed as wasteful. (By "likely to be", I of course mean "will bloody obviously be").

TSE: you could try and be the UKIP candidate. You might stand a chance as they scramble to prove they are not racist. Then you destroy them from within!

I'd have no chance in UKIP, with their economic protectionism and socialism.

Plus the polling shows that UKIPers are biased against men of Asian heritage than members of other parties.

I thought you supported the economically protectionist European Union, with its agricultural subsidies and required tariff barriers?

Sunil_Prasannan

JonnyJimmy said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MaxPB said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MaxPB said:

FPT:

Socrates said:

Boris Johnson supports free movement between the UK, Australia and New Zealand:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/let-australians-live-and-work-in-britain-london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-migration-report-20141103-11fwfn.html

I would add South Africa, Canada and the US into the mix as well.

Isn't SA majority black? How about the other majority BME Commonwealth nations?

Does it make a difference if SA is majority black? They have a skilled workforce and they all speak English to a good standard, and it would allow better and more investment by the UK in SA as well.

I didn't say I had a problem. But how about the other majority BME Commonwealth nations? Will they be discriminated against under your plan?

Majority BME? Oxymoron alert..

Welcome to the PB Grammar Nazi club!

TheScreamingEagles

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I was unable to find that beggar.

I did find a couple of beggars offering to sell me the latest iPhone for £200 though

Did they charge you a Roma-ing Fee?

(I'll get me coat...)

Oh my.

You will like nighthawks tonight, one of the links will mention the tube.

Financier

OT

Why should self-inflicted 'illness' receive benefits?

"Thousands of people are being paid sickness benefits because they are too fat to work – at a cost to the taxpayer of £54million.....

The Department for Work and Pensions statistics show that the number of claimants with the condition has more than doubled from around 5,500 five years ago.

Obesity is also a massive burden on the NHS and costs the health service more than £9billion a year.

Ministers have been accused of failing to take proper action against the food industry to help the public by cutting calories in food and drink, and to help people make healthier choices.

Some DLA claimants have jobs but the vast majority are out of work. Recipients can receive up to £138 a week.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2818747/

Sunil_Prasannan

Socrates said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anorak said:

Undemocratic and likely to be portrayed as wasteful. (By "likely to be", I of course mean "will bloody obviously be").

TSE: you could try and be the UKIP candidate. You might stand a chance as they scramble to prove they are not racist. Then you destroy them from within!

I'd have no chance in UKIP, with their economic protectionism and socialism.

Plus the polling shows that UKIPers are biased against men of Asian heritage than members of other parties.

I thought you supported the economically protectionist European Union, with its agricultural subsidies and required tariff barriers?

"Europhile Tories are closet lefty Socialists" - discuss!

FalseFlag

MaxPB said:

FPT:

Socrates said:

Boris Johnson supports free movement between the UK, Australia and New Zealand:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/let-australians-live-and-work-in-britain-london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-migration-report-20141103-11fwfn.html

I would add South Africa, Canada and the US into the mix as well.

The Empire ended a long time ago. Most of the US could care less about us and often actively dislike us, as exemplified by Obama. South Africa is a basket case we have little in common with.

Why have freedom of movement with any other country?

Clearly there should be preference placed on those of British ethnicity in our distribution of visas and for cases of asylum (Zimbabwe, South Africa, I expect US in due course) but the assumed starting assumption that we require immigration is a false one.

Socrates

MaxPB said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MaxPB said:

FPT:

Socrates said:

Boris Johnson supports free movement between the UK, Australia and New Zealand:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/let-australians-live-and-work-in-britain-london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-migration-report-20141103-11fwfn.html

I would add South Africa, Canada and the US into the mix as well.

Isn't SA majority black? How about the other majority BME Commonwealth nations?

Does it make a difference if SA is majority black? They have a skilled workforce and they all speak English to a good standard, and it would allow better and more investment by the UK in SA as well.

The vast majority of the South African workforce is certainly not "skilled".

Sunil_Prasannan

MikeK said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anorak said:

Undemocratic and likely to be portrayed as wasteful. (By "likely to be", I of course mean "will bloody obviously be").

TSE: you could try and be the UKIP candidate. You might stand a chance as they scramble to prove they are not racist. Then you destroy them from within!

I'd have no chance in UKIP, with their economic protectionism and socialism.

Plus the polling shows that UKIPers are biased against men of Asian heritage than members of other parties.

That last piece of of shit from your pen, was just that,shit! UKIP are not racist and have many members from asian backgrounds of good standing in its ranks. The only thing we hate and abhor is religious extremism, like Jihadism.

Priti's dad and the gentleman standing against IDS are both of Indian heritage!

TheScreamingEagles

Socrates said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anorak said:

Undemocratic and likely to be portrayed as wasteful. (By "likely to be", I of course mean "will bloody obviously be").

TSE: you could try and be the UKIP candidate. You might stand a chance as they scramble to prove they are not racist. Then you destroy them from within!

I'd have no chance in UKIP, with their economic protectionism and socialism.

Plus the polling shows that UKIPers are biased against men of Asian heritage than members of other parties.

I thought you supported the economically protectionist European Union, with its agricultural subsidies and required tariff barriers?

I'd abolish the CAP for those reasons and mostly because it would upset the French.

MikeK

JonnyJimmy said:

MikeK said:

Oooh-ah! Revolt on the Right continues apace:

http://conservativewoman.co.uk/camerons-tories-are-no-different-to-labour/

Words that are balm to kippers.

You know the author of that piece is a 9/11 "truther"?

As far as I know a person with the nome deplume of Earthenware wrote that piece. I know nothing else about her than that she is a woman. What do you know about her?

Cyclefree

Can I just comment on the idea of making tax returns public?

I do not like this idea: why should I make my tax returns publicly available? I'm not expected to make my bank statements or credit card statements publicly available. My medical records are private. My correspondence with my lawyers is private.

The comparison with the FoI is silly. That exists to ensure that we - the public - know about what is being done by the public sector in our name and with our money. But I see no good reason why private citizens' private lives should be made public - without their consent.

The principle of privacy is an important one and one we should cherish and fight for not give up, in the name of some sloppily argued transparency principle.

Socrates

MaxPB said:

FPT:

Socrates said:

Boris Johnson supports free movement between the UK, Australia and New Zealand:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/let-australians-live-and-work-in-britain-london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-migration-report-20141103-11fwfn.html

I would add South Africa, Canada and the US into the mix as well.

Presumably antifrank would support a similar notion. I would have a lot of concerns about the sizable low income populations of South Africa and even the USA. If you go to places like West Virginia, they're unlikely to be useful migrants, and I'm sure we'd be getting a lot come over for our generous welfare state. What we need is an effective points system, but one that is efficient for those that we want coming here.

It does make me wonder about how much better an EU-style organisation would be if Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the USA were members. Not that the US would ever give up sovereignty to a larger body.

The_Last_Boy_Scout

I entirely disagree. We are a representative democracy. We haven't insisted on referendums on local government reorganisations until very recently, and it is a costly mistake to do so.

TheScreamingEagles

I like this football writer, a lot.

Martyn McLaughlin ‏@MartynMcL

How do football writers pad out reports of dreary goalless draws? Today's Herald has a masterclass from Cappielow:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1hfCVOCEAAnKfC.jpg

Socrates

TheScreamingEagles said:

Socrates said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anorak said:

Undemocratic and likely to be portrayed as wasteful. (By "likely to be", I of course mean "will bloody obviously be").

TSE: you could try and be the UKIP candidate. You might stand a chance as they scramble to prove they are not racist. Then you destroy them from within!

I'd have no chance in UKIP, with their economic protectionism and socialism.

Plus the polling shows that UKIPers are biased against men of Asian heritage than members of other parties.

I thought you supported the economically protectionist European Union, with its agricultural subsidies and required tariff barriers?

I'd abolish the CAP for those reasons and mostly because it would upset the French.

But in practice, the CAP is a fundamental principle of the EU that will never be abolished. If you support the EU, you are implicitly endorsing the CAP.

And what about the tariff barriers? Would you support scrapping the CET? NAFTA doesn't need one.

The_Last_Boy_Scout

Antifrank

That was for City of Manchester not Greater Manchester. Equivalent is Hackney mayor vs Boris

Socrates

antifrank said:

If I had voted in a referendum two years ago opposing more jobs for the boys, I'd be pretty hacked off to find that the boys had decided they were going to create a new job for a boy anyway.

It's remarkable how politicians always seem to think that the solution to this country's problems involves more politicians.

Do you oppose the existence of the London Mayor's position?

AlastairMeeks

Socrates said:

antifrank said:

If I had voted in a referendum two years ago opposing more jobs for the boys, I'd be pretty hacked off to find that the boys had decided they were going to create a new job for a boy anyway.

It's remarkable how politicians always seem to think that the solution to this country's problems involves more politicians.

Do you oppose the existence of the London Mayor's position?

No - that was overwhelmingly approved by a referendum.

I don't oppose the idea of a Mayor of Manchester, and if I were Mancunian I'd probably have voted in favour (I do take the point that this is not the same proposal as last time). But if I'd voted against, I'd expect the revised proposal to be put to a public vote again.

JonnyJimmy

MikeK said:

JonnyJimmy said:

MikeK said:

Oooh-ah! Revolt on the Right continues apace:

http://conservativewoman.co.uk/camerons-tories-are-no-different-to-labour/

Words that are balm to kippers.

You know the author of that piece is a 9/11 "truther"?

As far as I know a person with the nome deplume of Earthenware wrote that piece. I know nothing else about her than that she is a woman. What do you know about her?

It took me two clicks from your link to get to Earthenware's disqus profile and 20 secs scrolling down to get to these comments from a Breitbart piece about Russell Brand being a truther. I haven't yet found convincing evidence that she's a she..


"Earthenware • 10 days ago
Numbers 2 to 8 are all good, but I don't see why you are criticising him for being a "9/11 Truther". A lot of us are. Have you looked at the evidence, James?

Earthenware • 10 days ago
I've no idea about a "directed energy weapon", but I do know that scientists maintain that a certain temperature is required in order to weaken steel and that jet fuel fires cannot reach that temperature.

If your theory were correct, every steel-framed skyscraper would be vulnerable to collapse from fire and expensive remedial action would have been taken since 2011. In addition, the regulations regarding the construction of said skyscrapers would have been amended to cater for such vulnerabilities.

Neither has happened.


Earthenware • 10 days ago
You are aware that many of the the people in those pictures were later revealed to be alive and living in Saudi by the FBI

Are you in a position to confirm:

a/ That it is not possible for jet fuel fires to reach a high enough temperature to weaken structural steel? and;
b/ That no other steel building has ever collapsed due to fire, either before or after 9/11?

Just interested in input from someone with relevant knowledge."

MikeK

Today the UK has lost its veto in 45 areas in Europe which used to require unanimity but now require just 55% support pic.twitter.com/UNOEmPSApv

— Dr J Richards (@DrRichards_UKIP) November 1, 2014

OldKingCole

Socrates said:

MaxPB said:

FPT:

Socrates said:

Boris Johnson supports free movement between the UK, Australia and New Zealand:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/let-australians-live-and-work-in-britain-london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-migration-report-20141103-11fwfn.html

I would add South Africa, Canada and the US into the mix as well.

Presumably antifrank would support a similar notion. I would have a lot of concerns about the sizable low income populations of South Africa and even the USA. If you go to places like West Virginia, they're unlikely to be useful migrants, and I'm sure we'd be getting a lot come over for our generous welfare state. What we need is an effective points system, but one that is efficient for those that we want coming here.

It does make me wonder about how much better an EU-style organisation would be if Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the USA were members. Not that the US would ever give up sovereignty to a larger body.

Didn’t George Orwell envisage something like that?

MarkHopkins

This is why Germany doesn't mind immigrants in the same way as the UK...

Germany vs UK population growth (Green is Germany, Red is UK).

Germany's population growth has stagnated compared to the UK.

Socrates

antifrank said:

Socrates said:

antifrank said:

If I had voted in a referendum two years ago opposing more jobs for the boys, I'd be pretty hacked off to find that the boys had decided they were going to create a new job for a boy anyway.

It's remarkable how politicians always seem to think that the solution to this country's problems involves more politicians.

Do you oppose the existence of the London Mayor's position?

No - that was overwhelmingly approved by a referendum.

I don't oppose the idea of a Mayor of Manchester, and if I were Mancunian I'd probably have voted in favour (I do take the point that this is not the same proposal as last time). But if I'd voted against, I'd expect the revised proposal to be put to a public vote again.

I don't think it's the same proposal at last time. As LBS says, it's the equivalent of City of Westminster Mayor vs Greater London Mayor. The existence of one does not affect the existence of the other: Tower Hamlets has its own Mayor for example.

That said, if you believe local govt changes should always have referenda, then that's a very legitimate position. Personally, my much bigger issue is with the two thirds veto being exercised by borough heads, with equal weighting of votes, regardless of population. That's less democratic in my opinion.

Peter_the_Punter

FPT - Re Dover

The poll I referred isn't as old as I thought - October 9th 2014.

It's a bit voodoo but it would have to be very wrong to make the odds of 3/1 UKIP anything other than a snip. The sitting MP, Charlie Elphicke came third behind Labour, which is a surprise.

I've increased my stake.

AlastairMeeks

Socrates said:

antifrank said:

Socrates said:

antifrank said:

If I had voted in a referendum two years ago opposing more jobs for the boys, I'd be pretty hacked off to find that the boys had decided they were going to create a new job for a boy anyway.

It's remarkable how politicians always seem to think that the solution to this country's problems involves more politicians.

Do you oppose the existence of the London Mayor's position?

No - that was overwhelmingly approved by a referendum.

I don't oppose the idea of a Mayor of Manchester, and if I were Mancunian I'd probably have voted in favour (I do take the point that this is not the same proposal as last time). But if I'd voted against, I'd expect the revised proposal to be put to a public vote again.

I don't think it's the same proposal at last time. As LBS says, it's the equivalent of City of Westminster Mayor vs Greater London Mayor. The existence of one does not affect the existence of the other: Tower Hamlets has its own Mayor for example.

That said, if you believe local govt changes should always have referenda, then that's a very legitimate position. Personally, my much bigger issue is with the two thirds veto being exercised by borough heads, with equal weighting of votes, regardless of population. That's less democratic in my opinion.

It's more that if it was worth a referendum last time and the proposal was defeated, as a matter of respect a referendum should be held this time.

MikeK

@JonnyJimmy
Thanks for the data on Earthenware, but I must say that it doesn't in anyway detract from what she wrote on the Tories and Labour being one and the same thing.

Sunil_Prasannan

Socrates said:

MaxPB said:

FPT:

Socrates said:

Boris Johnson supports free movement between the UK, Australia and New Zealand:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/let-australians-live-and-work-in-britain-london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-migration-report-20141103-11fwfn.html

I would add South Africa, Canada and the US into the mix as well.

Presumably antifrank would support a similar notion. I would have a lot of concerns about the sizable low income populations of South Africa and even the USA. If you go to places like West Virginia, they're unlikely to be useful migrants, and I'm sure we'd be getting a lot come over for our generous welfare state. What we need is an effective points system, but one that is efficient for those that we want coming here.

It does make me wonder about how much better an EU-style organisation would be if Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the USA were members. Not that the US would ever give up sovereignty to a larger body.

Freedom, Fraternity, Federation!

If I had my way, and I freely confess it would have depended on an extensive amount of Alternate History along the way (particularly in regard to the USA and Ireland!), my Commonwealth of English-speaking Nations and Peoples would consist of:

* All current Commonwealth members, including external territories where relevant
* Fiji (currently suspended, of course)
* The ex-members: Ireland, Zimbabwe and the Gambia
* Hong Kong (despite the transfer, still using English in an official capacity)

Plus: The nine other nations with English as a de facto or de jure official language:

* USA! USA! USA!, and its external territories
* Palau (former US mandate)
* Micronesia (former US Mandate)
* Marshall Islands (former US Mandate)
* The Philippines
* Liberia
* Sudan
* South Sudan
* Eritrea
* and the break-away region of Somaliland (northern part of Somalia)

Plus (again!):
* The whole of the EU (those 24 countries not already mentioned above), by virtue of it being a political union, with English an official language (sneaky, I know!). Plus their current external territories, just for a bit of fun (this would apply to France, Denmark, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands)

logical_song

JonnyJimmy said:

MikeK said:

JonnyJimmy said:

MikeK said:

Oooh-ah! Revolt on the Right continues apace:

http://conservativewoman.co.uk/camerons-tories-are-no-different-to-labour/

Words that are balm to kippers.

You know the author of that piece is a 9/11 "truther"?

As far as I know a person with the nome deplume of Earthenware wrote that piece. I know nothing else about her than that she is a woman. What do you know about her?

It took me two clicks from your link to get to Earthenware's disqus profile and 20 secs scrolling down to get to these comments from a Breitbart piece about Russell Brand being a truther. I haven't yet found convincing evidence that she's a she..


"Earthenware • 10 days ago
Numbers 2 to 8 are all good, but I don't see why you are criticising him for being a "9/11 Truther". A lot of us are. Have you looked at the evidence, James?

Earthenware • 10 days ago
I've no idea about a "directed energy weapon", but I do know that scientists maintain that a certain temperature is required in order to weaken steel and that jet fuel fires cannot reach that temperature.

If your theory were correct, every steel-framed skyscraper would be vulnerable to collapse from fire and expensive remedial action would have been taken since 2011. In addition, the regulations regarding the construction of said skyscrapers would have been amended to cater for such vulnerabilities.

Neither has happened.


Earthenware • 10 days ago
You are aware that many of the the people in those pictures were later revealed to be alive and living in Saudi by the FBI

Are you in a position to confirm:

a/ That it is not possible for jet fuel fires to reach a high enough temperature to weaken structural steel? and;
b/ That no other steel building has ever collapsed due to fire, either before or after 9/11?

Just interested in input from someone with relevant knowledge."

More Fruitcake, vicar?

OldKingCole

TheScreamingEagles said:

I was unable to find that beggar.

I did find a couple of beggars offering to sell me the latest iPhone for £200 though

She was at school of course Last week was half-term!

Socrates

MarkHopkins said:

This is why Germany doesn't mind immigrants in the same way as the UK...

Germany vs UK population growth (Green is Germany, Red is UK).

Germany's population growth has stagnated compared to the UK.

I had no idea how crazy the Dutch population growth has been.

logical_song

Hadn't heard the term 9/11 Truther before, so I looked it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Truth_movement
Yes a good recruit for UKIP.

AndyJS

I find it astonishing that the 16 year old who has just been jailed for life with a 20 year recommendation for the murder of schoolteacher Ann Maguire hasn't been named:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29879865

JonnyJimmy

MikeK said:

@JonnyJimmy
Thanks for the data on Earthenware, but I must say that it doesn't in anyway detract from what she wrote on the Tories and Labour being one and the same thing.

I didn't think it would make you suddenly disagree with the comment you linked to, but thought you might prefer not to promote the views of a Russell Brand type in UKiP's ranks.

Cyclefree

AndyJS said:

I find it astonishing that the 16 year old who has just been jailed for life with a 20 year recommendation for the murder of schoolteacher Ann Maguire hasn't been named:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29879865

Isn't that the normal rule with minors?

michaelcollins10

On topic.

The problem with the Bristol mayor(*) is that he has too much power over too small an area, he can't make strategic decisions over transport but has personal responsibility for everything from bin collection to child protection.

This idea actually looks quite good, not least because the local councils have a strong record of cooperation over issues like transport (tram) etc.

* It also doesn't help that he's an egomaniac.

Socrates

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Freedom, Fraternity, Federation!

If I had my way, and I freely confess it would have depended on an extensive amount of Alternate History along the way (particularly in regard to the USA and Ireland!), my Commonwealth of English-speaking Nations and Peoples would consist of:

* All current Commonwealth members, including external territories where relevant
* Fiji (currently suspended, of course)
* The ex-members: Ireland, Zimbabwe and the Gambia
* Hong Kong (despite the transfer, still using English in an official capacity)

Plus: The nine other nations with English as a de facto or de jure official language:

* USA! USA! USA!, and its external territories
* Palau (former US mandate)
* Micronesia (former US Mandate)
* Marshall Islands (former US Mandate)
* The Philippines
* Liberia
* Sudan
* South Sudan
* Eritrea

Plus (again!):
* The whole of the EU (those 24 countries not already mentioned above), by virtue of it being a political union, with English an official language (sneaky, I know!). Plus their current external territories, just for a bit of fun (this would apply to France, Denmark, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands)

If you are happy to change history, you could always have a completely different set of places settled by the English: Argentina, Brazil, Taiwain etc.

Sunil_Prasannan

Regarding 9/11 theories, my gast was rather flabbered when, during my brief stay in Colorado in 2011, there was actually a debate one Sunday afternoon at University of Colorado, Boulder regarding whether or not the Twin Towers were destroyed through a controlled demolition. I decided to attend through curiosity alone, and I was surprised how civilised the debate was. There were no hecklers, no police presence, no Uni security vetting attendees. Everything went smoothly.

http://www.ae911truth.org/news/459-uc-boulder-debate.html

Itajai

MaxPB said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MaxPB said:

FPT:

Socrates said:

Boris Johnson supports free movement between the UK, Australia and New Zealand:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/let-australians-live-and-work-in-britain-london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-migration-report-20141103-11fwfn.html

I would add South Africa, Canada and the US into the mix as well.

Isn't SA majority black? How about the other majority BME Commonwealth nations?

Does it make a difference if SA is majority black? They have a skilled workforce and they all speak English to a good standard, and it would allow better and more investment by the UK in SA as well.

You obviously have not been to SA then.

MikeK

logical_song said:

Hadn't heard the term 9/11 Truther before, so I looked it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Truth_movement
Yes a good recruit for UKIP.

As Earthenware's ID is suspect and has no true identity. Not even knowing it's sex, one cannot from what I have seen, claim he/she/it is indeed a Truther. It's all speculation and s storm in an acorn cup.

JonnyJimmy

Latest Saints betting update (Ladbrokes prices), as I'm sure it excites you all as much as me!

To win league 80/1
To finish top 2 - 22/1
To finish top 3 - 8/1
To finish top 4 - 3/1
To finish top 6 - 4/6
To finish top 10 - 1/100

AndyJS

Cyclefree said:

AndyJS said:

I find it astonishing that the 16 year old who has just been jailed for life with a 20 year recommendation for the murder of schoolteacher Ann Maguire hasn't been named:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29879865

Isn't that the normal rule with minors?

It is for lesser offences, but I thought that with murder judges often decide to name those convicted if they're 16 or 17.

williamglenn

MarkHopkins said:

This is why Germany doesn't mind immigrants in the same way as the UK...

Germany vs UK population growth (Green is Germany, Red is UK).

Germany's population growth has stagnated compared to the UK.

On the other hand compare the UK with France:

France vs UK population growth

MikeK

JonnyJimmy said:

MikeK said:

@JonnyJimmy
Thanks for the data on Earthenware, but I must say that it doesn't in anyway detract from what she wrote on the Tories and Labour being one and the same thing.

I didn't think it would make you suddenly disagree with the comment you linked to, but thought you might prefer not to promote the views of a Russell Brand type in UKiP's ranks.

My dear boy, Russel Brand hates UKIP:

Russell Brand Blasts BBC For 'Validating Ukip's Ideas ...
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/.../russell-brand-blasts-the-bbc-over-clacton-...
Oct 10, 2014 - Russell Brand has slammed the BBC for “validating the ridiculous ideas” of Ukip, and “collaborating” in building a narrative in which Britain's ...

JonnyJimmy

MikeK said:

logical_song said:

Hadn't heard the term 9/11 Truther before, so I looked it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Truth_movement
Yes a good recruit for UKIP.

As Earthenware's ID is suspect and has no true identity. Not even knowing it's sex, one cannot from what I have seen, claim he/she/it is indeed a Truther. It's all speculation and s storm in an acorn cup.

How about this that I quoted earlier "I don't see why you are criticising him for being a "9/11 Truther". A lot of us are."

QED

Speedy

I think people will reject elected mayors in practice like they have rejected elected PCC. However to solve this, one should install a minimum turnout in elections lets say 20%, bellow which the election is invalid, since you can't have less that 10% of voters imposing their will on the other 90%.

Speedy

MikeK said:

JonnyJimmy said:

MikeK said:

@JonnyJimmy
Thanks for the data on Earthenware, but I must say that it doesn't in anyway detract from what she wrote on the Tories and Labour being one and the same thing.

I didn't think it would make you suddenly disagree with the comment you linked to, but thought you might prefer not to promote the views of a Russell Brand type in UKiP's ranks.

My dear boy, Russel Brand hates UKIP:

Russell Brand Blasts BBC For 'Validating Ukip's Ideas ...
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/.../russell-brand-blasts-the-bbc-over-clacton-...
Oct 10, 2014 - Russell Brand has slammed the BBC for “validating the ridiculous ideas” of Ukip, and “collaborating” in building a narrative in which Britain's ...

I have a theory that Roger is Russell Brand.

logical_song

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Socrates said:

MaxPB said:

FPT:

Socrates said:

Boris Johnson supports free movement between the UK, Australia and New Zealand:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/let-australians-live-and-work-in-britain-london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-migration-report-20141103-11fwfn.html

I would add South Africa, Canada and the US into the mix as well.

Presumably antifrank would support a similar notion. I would have a lot of concerns about the sizable low income populations of South Africa and even the USA. If you go to places like West Virginia, they're unlikely to be useful migrants, and I'm sure we'd be getting a lot come over for our generous welfare state. What we need is an effective points system, but one that is efficient for those that we want coming here.

It does make me wonder about how much better an EU-style organisation would be if Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the USA were members. Not that the US would ever give up sovereignty to a larger body.

Freedom, Fraternity, Federation!

If I had my way, and I freely confess it would have depended on an extensive amount of Alternate History along the way (particularly in regard to the USA and Ireland!), my Commonwealth of English-speaking Nations and Peoples would consist of:

* All current Commonwealth members, including external territories where relevant
* Fiji (currently suspended, of course)
* The ex-members: Ireland, Zimbabwe and the Gambia
* Hong Kong (despite the transfer, still using English in an official capacity)

Plus: The nine other nations with English as a de facto or de jure official language:

* USA! USA! USA!, and its external territories
* Palau (former US mandate)
* Micronesia (former US Mandate)
* Marshall Islands (former US Mandate)
* The Philippines
* Liberia
* Sudan
* South Sudan
* Eritrea

Plus (again!):
* The whole of the EU (those 24 countries not already mentioned above), by virtue of it being a political union, with English an official language (sneaky, I know!). Plus their current external territories, just for a bit of fun (this would apply to France, Denmark, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands)

Start with the US - this from the Gore/Bush election:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2s8q3UGQl0

MikeK

Speedy said:

MikeK said:

JonnyJimmy said:

MikeK said:

@JonnyJimmy
Thanks for the data on Earthenware, but I must say that it doesn't in anyway detract from what she wrote on the Tories and Labour being one and the same thing.

I didn't think it would make you suddenly disagree with the comment you linked to, but thought you might prefer not to promote the views of a Russell Brand type in UKiP's ranks.

My dear boy, Russel Brand hates UKIP:

Russell Brand Blasts BBC For 'Validating Ukip's Ideas ...
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/.../russell-brand-blasts-the-bbc-over-clacton-...
Oct 10, 2014 - Russell Brand has slammed the BBC for “validating the ridiculous ideas” of Ukip, and “collaborating” in building a narrative in which Britain's ...

I have a theory that Roger is Russell Brand.

Jolly good theory.

TheWatcher

Speedy said:

MikeK said:

JonnyJimmy said:

MikeK said:

@JonnyJimmy
Thanks for the data on Earthenware, but I must say that it doesn't in anyway detract from what she wrote on the Tories and Labour being one and the same thing.

I didn't think it would make you suddenly disagree with the comment you linked to, but thought you might prefer not to promote the views of a Russell Brand type in UKiP's ranks.

My dear boy, Russel Brand hates UKIP:

Russell Brand Blasts BBC For 'Validating Ukip's Ideas ...
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/.../russell-brand-blasts-the-bbc-over-clacton-...
Oct 10, 2014 - Russell Brand has slammed the BBC for “validating the ridiculous ideas” of Ukip, and “collaborating” in building a narrative in which Britain's ...

I have a theory that Roger is Russell Brand.

Roger is a real person, not a pseudonym.

Sunil_Prasannan

AndyJS said:

Cyclefree said:

AndyJS said:

I find it astonishing that the 16 year old who has just been jailed for life with a 20 year recommendation for the murder of schoolteacher Ann Maguire hasn't been named:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29879865

Isn't that the normal rule with minors?

It is for lesser offences, but I thought that with murder judges often decide to name those convicted if they're 16 or 17.

We knew the names of the James Bulger killers. They were only 10 at the time.

David_Evershed

Speedy said:

I think people will reject elected mayors in practice like they have rejected elected PCC. However to solve this, one should install a minimum turnout in elections lets say 20%, bellow which the election is invalid, since you can't have less that 10% of voters imposing their will on the other 90%.

Everyone eligible has the opportunity to vote in person or by post. Anyone not sending a ballot return is abstaining. So the 10% voting are not imposing anything on the 90% who abstain.

In many ways it is better that those who really care are making the decision.

Pulpstar

Sunil_Prasannan said:

AndyJS said:

Cyclefree said:

AndyJS said:

I find it astonishing that the 16 year old who has just been jailed for life with a 20 year recommendation for the murder of schoolteacher Ann Maguire hasn't been named:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29879865

Isn't that the normal rule with minors?

It is for lesser offences, but I thought that with murder judges often decide to name those convicted if they're 16 or 17.

We knew the names of the James Bulger killers. They were only 10 at the time.

Sometimes we know the names of individuals and then we are ordered that we don't know their names.

MikeK

Mikkil retweeted
Ed Miliband ‏@EdMilibuddha 2h2 hours ago
Postal votes are in already for #Manchester #Mayor. Glad to say Comrades that @UKLabour won with 147% of the vote! #thankyou #votelabour

Blimey labour are slipping!

Sunil_Prasannan

Socrates said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Freedom, Fraternity, Federation!

If I had my way, and I freely confess it would have depended on an extensive amount of Alternate History along the way (particularly in regard to the USA and Ireland!), my Commonwealth of English-speaking Nations and Peoples would consist of:

* All current Commonwealth members, including external territories where relevant
* Fiji (currently suspended, of course)
* The ex-members: Ireland, Zimbabwe and the Gambia
* Hong Kong (despite the transfer, still using English in an official capacity)

Plus: The nine other nations with English as a de facto or de jure official language:

* USA! USA! USA!, and its external territories
* Palau (former US mandate)
* Micronesia (former US Mandate)
* Marshall Islands (former US Mandate)
* The Philippines
* Liberia
* Sudan
* South Sudan
* Eritrea

Plus (again!):
* The whole of the EU (those 24 countries not already mentioned above), by virtue of it being a political union, with English an official language (sneaky, I know!). Plus their current external territories, just for a bit of fun (this would apply to France, Denmark, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands)

If you are happy to change history, you could always have a completely different set of places settled by the English: Argentina, Brazil, Taiwain etc.

Nah, I'm just going for those places where English is either predominant or official the present time!

I would be Minister-Emperor. TSE would be my Darth Vader/Mandelson-style "enforcer"

Morris Dancer would be Governor of Yorkshire
Mike Smithson would be Governor Mayor of Bedfordshire
Corporeal would be Governor of Wales
Alan Brooke would be Governor of Northern Ireland
Neil would be Governor of Southern Ireland
Tim B would be Governor of Georgia
Sean T would be Governor of Cornwall
Isam would Governor of Essex
John O would be Governor of Surrey
Plato would be Governess of Sussex
Malcolm G would be Governor of Scotland

um, you get the picture!

Sunil_Prasannan

TheWatcher said:

Speedy said:

MikeK said:

JonnyJimmy said:

MikeK said:

@JonnyJimmy
Thanks for the data on Earthenware, but I must say that it doesn't in anyway detract from what she wrote on the Tories and Labour being one and the same thing.

I didn't think it would make you suddenly disagree with the comment you linked to, but thought you might prefer not to promote the views of a Russell Brand type in UKiP's ranks.

My dear boy, Russel Brand hates UKIP:

Russell Brand Blasts BBC For 'Validating Ukip's Ideas ...
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/.../russell-brand-blasts-the-bbc-over-clacton-...
Oct 10, 2014 - Russell Brand has slammed the BBC for “validating the ridiculous ideas” of Ukip, and “collaborating” in building a narrative in which Britain's ...

I have a theory that Roger is Russell Brand.

Roger is a real person, not a pseudonym.

So is Russell Brand! Spooky

david_herdson

David_Evershed said:

Speedy said:

I think people will reject elected mayors in practice like they have rejected elected PCC. However to solve this, one should install a minimum turnout in elections lets say 20%, bellow which the election is invalid, since you can't have less that 10% of voters imposing their will on the other 90%.

Everyone eligible has the opportunity to vote in person or by post. Anyone not sending a ballot return is abstaining. So the 10% voting are not imposing anything on the 90% who abstain.

In many ways it is better that those who really care are making the decision.

I completely agree. People have a right to abstain. Those who choose to use it, however, abdicate their right to complain about the choice others make on their behalf.

Morris_Dancer

Good afternoon, everyone.

I concur with the sentiment of the thread.

Tissue_Price

Betting Tip

World Series 2015: Chicago Cubs @ 40/1 (WH, PP)

This team will probably be amongst the favourites in 2016/7 as they are full of developing young talent. Let's try to beat the rush and get a decent price when they're on the way up (à la Nationals, 2012). They have cash to spend and have just secured one of the best managers in the game in Joe Maddon.

This isn't quite as stand-out a bet as last year's tip but I wouldn't be surprised to see them on the start line in April at 20/1 or possibly even shorter. Bovada (a US book) have already cut them from 50s into 18s.

The each-way terms with Hills (1/2 1-2) are more than fair too.

Next best recommendations are the Texas Rangers @ 50/1 and the Boston Red Sox @ 33/1 - both bounce-back plays.