The furore, if we can elevate it to that, over beggargate strikes me as entirely manufactured. I have heard no-one even mention it outside this fair website.
Ed would have been better of not giving the money to the beggar, and using the money to buy some fish in Morrrisons.
Good point, what with it being Friday. It might have swung Maureen back on side.
When poling firms give ukip the same level of respectability as other major parties, ie prompting, UKIPs score goes up significantly, so it would seem there are indeed "shy kippers"
I think you are inferring too much from a methodological change.
When prompted the score goes up, hardly rocket science
If Osborne had shown welfare including pensions, he would have been called misleading.
Now that he split them out for purposes of clarity, it's being called an accounting gimmick.
The hypocritical left on full display.
How do you know how anyone would have reacted to something Osborne has not done? You are inventing something so that you can call lefties hypocritical. Should I draw conclusions about the right because you have done this?
Because whenever this discussion has come up in the past on the size of welfare spending, "most of it is actually pensions" is the line that always comes back.
It would be great to have more clarity on the size of the social security bill for: pensioners, out-of-work benefits (for those able to work), in-work benefits (including tax credits), benefits for the disabled and benefits for those unable to work. Some of these overlap, though.
Too much detail can sometimes be used to confuse, but in general I think more information is a good thing.
The figures, though, are surely wrong? I thought that welfare spending was only greater than the Health budget if the state pension was included as part of welfare - so why is the state pension listed separately?
It looks like the information has been presented in a way designed to fit a preconceived opinion, rather than to present unbiased information. Lumping together in-work and out-of-work benefits in the same total is massively misleading.
For the life of me I cannot see why George Osborne would want to give people a false impression of what most welfare spending goes on.
I'm half surprised that it isn't labelled as "spending on skivers"...
Talking of money grabbers, Shameless McShane is very pleased for his former colleagues.
Maybe when George is announcing the increase in the Minimum Wage and a target of, say, £8.60 per hour in the next Parliament in his "autumn" statement he will have a good opportunity to come clean on the cost of in-work benefits and importance of offloading more of the cost of work onto those that do the employing.
When poling firms give ukip the same level of respectability as other major parties, ie prompting, UKIPs score goes up significantly, so it would seem there are indeed "shy kippers"
I think you are inferring too much from a methodological change.
When prompted the score goes up, hardly rocket science
Yes - thats a function of prompting, not shyness.
So would you say people who might be shy of admitting voting for UKIP would be more or less likely to admit it if prompted or not? Or doesn't make a difference?
This doesn't have to be a point scoring nit picking row, you can answer honestly
The furore, if we can elevate it to that, over beggargate strikes me as entirely manufactured. I have heard no-one even mention it outside this fair website.
Ed would have been better of not giving the money to the beggar, and using the money to buy some fish in Morrrisons.
He needs to be careful - Osborne ended his political career by weeping at a funeral.
The furore, if we can elevate it to that, over beggargate strikes me as entirely manufactured. I have heard no-one even mention it outside this fair website.
Ed would have been better of not giving the money to the beggar, and using the money to buy some fish in Morrrisons.
He needs to be careful - Osborne ended his political career by weeping at a funeral.
And Cameron resigned because he rode a horse......
When poling firms give ukip the same level of respectability as other major parties, ie prompting, UKIPs score goes up significantly, so it would seem there are indeed "shy kippers"
I think you are inferring too much from a methodological change.
When prompted the score goes up, hardly rocket science
Yes - thats a function of prompting, not shyness.
So would you say people who might be shy of admitting voting for UKIP would be more or less likely to admit it if prompted or not? Or doesn't make a difference?
This doesn't have to be a point scoring nit picking row, you can answer honestly
I think its a function of responding to a prompt - if you don't mention any party their score will drop - its a simple methodological question. If the polling companies drop the Lib Dems from their initial prompt their numbers will go down - not because they are 'shy' - but because politics is not front of mind for well over 95% of the population.....and if you don't remind people of a party some of their supporters will 'forget' about it....
I like the idea of the tax summary statement. The Government should also add a personalised spending summary as well, so that so many of the angriest voters could see how much they are in fact cosseted.
It's an excellent idea, Antifrank.
It would sit well too with one of my own favorites. All tax returns should be open to view by anybody and everybody. This would dispose of a lot of myth, and cut evasion dramatically overnight.
It's the system in Norway - I remember looking up Breivik on it when we were trying to work out who the nutter was. Seems to work uncontroversially there.
I like the idea of the tax summary statement. The Government should also add a personalised spending summary as well, so that so many of the angriest voters could see how much they are in fact cosseted.
It's an excellent idea, Antifrank.
It would sit well too with one of my own favorites. All tax returns should be open to view by anybody and everybody. This would dispose of a lot of myth, and cut evasion dramatically overnight.
It's the system in Norway - I remember looking up Breivik on it when we were trying to work out who the nutter was. Seems to work uncontroversially there.
Let's start the ball rolling with all public officials and politicians first. Imagine the howls from the offices of the State Broadcaster, when they realise it's their turn.
Maybe when George is announcing the increase in the Minimum Wage and a target of, say, £8.60 per hour in the next Parliament in his "autumn" statement he will have a good opportunity to come clean on the cost of in-work benefits and importance of offloading more of the cost of work onto those that do the employing.
That would be ideal. My hope is that by ramping up the Personal Allowance and Minimum Wage, working tax credit can be cut in a way that is not too painful or obvious for those who lose it.
I like the idea of the tax summary statement. The Government should also add a personalised spending summary as well, so that so many of the angriest voters could see how much they are in fact cosseted.
It's an excellent idea, Antifrank.
It would sit well too with one of my own favorites. All tax returns should be open to view by anybody and everybody. This would dispose of a lot of myth, and cut evasion dramatically overnight.
It's the system in Norway - I remember looking up Breivik on it when we were trying to work out who the nutter was. Seems to work uncontroversially there.
Let's start the ball rolling with all public officials and politicians first. Imagine the howls from the offices of the State Broadcaster, when they realise it's their turn.
Personally I wouldn't care where we start, Watcher, but in the end it has to be universal, otherwise it would be discriminatory.
It used to be a non-runner of an idea on practical grounds, but modern technology and electronic filing now make it not only possible but pretty straight forward. I really am struggling to see a serious down side.
I think an interesting independent might be a value wager for the Manchester mayoralty. This is across the entire GM region, a population of 2.7million. The winner will have one of the biggest personal mandates in Europe. Think turnout will be ~40%
Mr. Pubgoer, ah. Reminds me, I saw the first episode of The Scarlet Pimpernel on Drama a few months ago. Although not a Downton Abbey fan it was amusing to see the butler as one of Robespierre's minions in the revolution.
The Tory MP must every poster on PB amused by Marf's cartoon is also racist. Can anyone now deny how UKIP politicians are unfairly smeared by headlines like "Bongo Bongo cartoon lands UKIP candidate in the soup".
I like the idea of the tax summary statement. The Government should also add a personalised spending summary as well, so that so many of the angriest voters could see how much they are in fact cosseted.
It's an excellent idea, Antifrank.
It would sit well too with one of my own favorites. All tax returns should be open to view by anybody and everybody. This would dispose of a lot of myth, and cut evasion dramatically overnight.
It's the system in Norway - I remember looking up Breivik on it when we were trying to work out who the nutter was. Seems to work uncontroversially there.
Let's start the ball rolling with all public officials and politicians first. Imagine the howls from the offices of the State Broadcaster, when they realise it's their turn.
Personally I wouldn't care where we start, Watcher, but in the end it has to be universal, otherwise it would be discriminatory.
It used to be a non-runner of an idea on practical grounds, but modern technology and electronic filing now make it not only possible but pretty straight forward. I really am struggling to see a serious down side.
Does anyone know which part of Manchester Ed Miliband met this beggar?
I think it's Mosley Street
I willing to do some research and interview this beggar myself.
#TheThingsI'mWillingToDoForPBDuringMyLunchHour
From one of the pics it looks like Manchester Art Gallery in the distance which would put it on Mosley St
That's what I thought.
I shall go at 1pm.
If I don't give an update by say 3pm then I've either been picked up by the Rozzers, mugged or ended up in the village.
After the M.E.N. tweeted a picture of the Labour leader dropping change into the woman’s outstretched cup on Mosley Street today, scores of people took to Twitter to mock Mr Miliband for looking slightly ‘awkward’ - and for not giving her enough money.
Let’s assume for a moment that Britain does decide to leave the EU and close it’s borders to all but “approved” immigrants. What difference will that make to the queue at Calais and if none, what will we do about it.
I suppose, to be fair, that to some extent that the significantly reduced number of lorries coming across will reduce the possibilities of illegal ingress.
For the life of me I cannot see why George Osborne would want to give people a false impression of what most welfare spending goes on.
How on Earth is providing MORE INFORMATION on the division between welfare and pensions "obscuring" things? Most regular people do not consider "pensions" to be welfare, so it makes sense to split them out. This is not a "false impression": people that consider pensions welfare can just quickly add them together via a quick look at the pie chart. Left-wingers are just annoyed that their normal line on this has been deconstructed through greater clarity.
Incidentally what was EdM doing in Manchester and did he make time to visit his own constituency in his trip northwards ?
It also struck me that EdM's political problems are based on the same character traits which brought his brother's downfall, namely cowardice and complacency.
Cowardice in that EdM has never been willing to think, or experience life, outside his Dartmouth Park comfort zone and complacency in that he assumed all the Labour voters of 2010 had nowhere else to go.
How things might be different if my offer here to show EdM around his constituency at the bargain price of £1000pd had been taken up.
Does anyone know which part of Manchester Ed Miliband met this beggar?
I think it's Mosley Street
It the RBS building, corner of Mosely St and York St. I used to pass it often. Everything else in that part of town is quite modernistic but the RBS building is (appropriately) nicely antiquated...
I like the idea of the tax summary statement. The Government should also add a personalised spending summary as well, so that so many of the angriest voters could see how much they are in fact cosseted.
It's an excellent idea, Antifrank.
It would sit well too with one of my own favorites. All tax returns should be open to view by anybody and everybody. This would dispose of a lot of myth, and cut evasion dramatically overnight.
It's the system in Norway - I remember looking up Breivik on it when we were trying to work out who the nutter was. Seems to work uncontroversially there.
Let's start the ball rolling with all public officials and politicians first. Imagine the howls from the offices of the State Broadcaster, when they realise it's their turn.
Personally I wouldn't care where we start, Watcher, but in the end it has to be universal, otherwise it would be discriminatory.
It used to be a non-runner of an idea on practical grounds, but modern technology and electronic filing now make it not only possible but pretty straight forward. I really am struggling to see a serious down side.
Apart from being a nosey parker's charter.
You could say the same of the Freedom of Information regulations.
If that's the worst anybody comes up with, it's a definite runner. And it's not as radical as it sounds at first take. A number of countries have it, or something similar, and we are part way there in that you can already obtain company accounts which disclose a good deal of tax information.
I suspect the objections would come from those with most to lose, namely those who have been cheating for years and getting away with it.
As a Labour MP, I strongly believe my party should be forever beating a loud drum about the value of work, about instilling a strong work ethic into people and about how character and achievement comes from hard work. My fear is that an increased reliance on cheap migrant labour to drive some sectors in our economy is chipping away at a bedrock of working class pride, allowing a once strong work ethic to drain away and it’s being done with a comfortable and badly misinformed political consensus.
As a Labour MP, I strongly believe my party should be forever beating a loud drum about the value of work, about instilling a strong work ethic into people and about how character and achievement comes from hard work. My fear is that an increased reliance on cheap migrant labour to drive some sectors in our economy is chipping away at a bedrock of working class pride, allowing a once strong work ethic to drain away and it’s being done with a comfortable and badly misinformed political consensus.
Jesse Norman said much the same on the Daily Politics today...
Now that politicians of the two biggest parties are finally admitting what I have been saying on here for years, maybe their PB fans will finally accept the truth
Mass Immigration is a Stealth Tax on the Working Class. It makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer
Carswell continues to channel his Hodges / Miliband version of obsession ...his of course being with his former party...
Douglas Carswell MP ✔ @DouglasCarswell Merkel won't let govt restrict immigration. Wets won't let govt scrap HRA. Cheap credit won't make economy productive #MessinaWontSaveYou
What's your view on the British nation having to hang on to the words of the German Chancellor to see whether we can control our own borders or not?
Another Kipper running at the first whiff of cordite - get some nuts.
Unless Cameron has defected since this morning, his delusion that he can wrestle poodles and win is surely a Tory problem? So, more a case of - get some popcorn.
I like the idea of the tax summary statement. The Government should also add a personalised spending summary as well, so that so many of the angriest voters could see how much they are in fact cosseted.
It's an excellent idea, Antifrank.
It would sit well too with one of my own favorites. All tax returns should be open to view by anybody and everybody. This would dispose of a lot of myth, and cut evasion dramatically overnight.
It's the system in Norway - I remember looking up Breivik on it when we were trying to work out who the nutter was. Seems to work uncontroversially there.
Let's start the ball rolling with all public officials and politicians first. Imagine the howls from the offices of the State Broadcaster, when they realise it's their turn.
Personally I wouldn't care where we start, Watcher, but in the end it has to be universal, otherwise it would be discriminatory.
It used to be a non-runner of an idea on practical grounds, but modern technology and electronic filing now make it not only possible but pretty straight forward. I really am struggling to see a serious down side.
Apart from being a nosey parker's charter.
You could say the same of the Freedom of Information regulations.
If that's the worst anybody comes up with, it's a definite runner. And it's not as radical as it sounds at first take. A number of countries have it, or something similar, and we are part way there in that you can already obtain company accounts which disclose a good deal of tax information.
I suspect the objections would come from those with most to lose, namely those who have been cheating for years and getting away with it.
Ah yes but we middle class Brits are a secretive lot and don't like parading our wares (inc our tax returns) in public. Company accounts are often abbreviated when sent to Co House and don't say a lot.+
As a Labour MP, I strongly believe my party should be forever beating a loud drum about the value of work, about instilling a strong work ethic into people and about how character and achievement comes from hard work. My fear is that an increased reliance on cheap migrant labour to drive some sectors in our economy is chipping away at a bedrock of working class pride, allowing a once strong work ethic to drain away and it’s being done with a comfortable and badly misinformed political consensus.
Jesse Norman said much the same on the Daily Politics today...
Now that politicians of the two biggest parties are finally admitting what I have been saying on here for years, maybe their PB fans will finally accept the truth
Mass Immigration is a Stealth Tax on the Working Class. It makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer
Don't think that Simon Danzcuk is representative of the Labour party. Ed Miliband still believes in putting his fingers in his ears and screaming "la la la I can't hear you" when it comes to immigration. He still thinks the wage issues can be solved by a higher minimum wage, as if immigration doesn't put wage pressure on those above that level or employment.
Incidentally what was EdM doing in Manchester and did he make time to visit his own constituency in his trip northwards ?
It also struck me that EdM's political problems are based on the same character traits which brought his brother's downfall, namely cowardice and complacency.
Cowardice in that EdM has never been willing to think, or experience life, outside his Dartmouth Park comfort zone and complacency in that he assumed all the Labour voters of 2010 had nowhere else to go.
How things might be different if my offer here to show EdM around his constituency at the bargain price of £1000pd had been taken up.
MEN from photo captions posted earlier - Labour Leader Ed Miliband at a meeting of Labour's English Regional Shadow Cabinet Committee.
If Murphy does not get it, with double the MSPs and more than double the MPs of either rival, the person who beats him may have major problems in managing the MSPs and MPs.
Carswell continues to channel his Hodges / Miliband version of obsession ...his of course being with his former party...
Douglas Carswell MP ✔ @DouglasCarswell Merkel won't let govt restrict immigration. Wets won't let govt scrap HRA. Cheap credit won't make economy productive #MessinaWontSaveYou
What's your view on the British nation having to hang on to the words of the German Chancellor to see whether we can control our own borders or not?
Another Kipper running at the first whiff of cordite - get some nuts.
Unless Cameron has defected since this morning, his delusion that he can wrestle poodles and win is surely a Tory problem? So, more a case of - get some popcorn.
The Tory MP must every poster on PB amused by Marf's cartoon is also racist. Can anyone now deny how UKIP politicians are unfairly smeared by headlines like "Bongo Bongo cartoon lands UKIP candidate in the soup".
It's the way journalism works, Socco.
The headline may be unfair but it grabs attention. The article itself was however more than fair to UKIP. (The same was true of yesterday's Sunday People piece on this subject.) Charlie Elphicke comes out of it looking a bit humourless and silly, David Little gets some nice publicity.
UKIP 2 Tories 0. Charlie will have to do a lot better in the return leg.
Hopefully we will be joining them soon: Bjarni Benediktsson, Iceland’s foreign minister says Iceland is better off out of the EU…
“We have reached the clear conclusion over and over again that Iceland’s interests are better secured outside the EU. That is our conclusion and to my opinion that conclusion is becoming stronger.”
As a Labour MP, I strongly believe my party should be forever beating a loud drum about the value of work, about instilling a strong work ethic into people and about how character and achievement comes from hard work. My fear is that an increased reliance on cheap migrant labour to drive some sectors in our economy is chipping away at a bedrock of working class pride, allowing a once strong work ethic to drain away and it’s being done with a comfortable and badly misinformed political consensus.
Jesse Norman said much the same on the Daily Politics today...
Now that politicians of the two biggest parties are finally admitting what I have been saying on here for years, maybe their PB fans will finally accept the truth
Mass Immigration is a Stealth Tax on the Working Class. It makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer
That Jenny Willott is supposed to be the future of the LDs. Squints and twitches, shame she will lose her seat as could be popcorn watching fun post GE 2015.
Carswell continues to channel his Hodges / Miliband version of obsession ...his of course being with his former party...
Douglas Carswell MP ✔ @DouglasCarswell Merkel won't let govt restrict immigration. Wets won't let govt scrap HRA. Cheap credit won't make economy productive #MessinaWontSaveYou
What's your view on the British nation having to hang on to the words of the German Chancellor to see whether we can control our own borders or not?
Another Kipper running at the first whiff of cordite - get some nuts.
Unless Cameron has defected since this morning, his delusion that he can wrestle poodles and win is surely a Tory problem? So, more a case of - get some popcorn.
This may have already been passed on at PB, but Blair has been interviewed by Progress magazine. Forthright as ever. Would be very interesting to see what the political situation today would look like if Blair was still Labour leader:
"But {Blair] is clear that stopping immigration would be ‘a disaster for this country’. Labour, he says, should not ‘end up chasing after the policies of a party like Ukip, who you don’t agree with, whose policies would take this country backwards economically, politically, in every conceivable way, and who, ultimately, at the heart of what they do, have a rather nasty core of prejudice that none of us believe in, which you’ve actually got to take on and fight. So the way to deal with this is to deal with it by what you believe.’ "
This amusing little episode led me to check out Dover more than I would normally do from a betting point of view. I'd seriously recommend backing UKIP at 3/1. Little seems like a decent candidate, whereas Elphicke isn't one of the brightest sparks in the Tory firework display. The only local poll I could find is very old but it points emphatically UKIP's way, as do the the local Euro results. As usual, DYOR - but if UKIP win a dozen seats next May, this is likely to be one of them.
As a Labour MP, I strongly believe my party should be forever beating a loud drum about the value of work, about instilling a strong work ethic into people and about how character and achievement comes from hard work. My fear is that an increased reliance on cheap migrant labour to drive some sectors in our economy is chipping away at a bedrock of working class pride, allowing a once strong work ethic to drain away and it’s being done with a comfortable and badly misinformed political consensus.
Jesse Norman said much the same on the Daily Politics today...
Now that politicians of the two biggest parties are finally admitting what I have been saying on here for years, maybe their PB fans will finally accept the truth
Mass Immigration is a Stealth Tax on the Working Class. It makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer
That Jenny Willott is supposed to be the future of the LDs. Squints and twitches, shame she will lose her seat as could be popcorn watching fun post GE 2015.
Cardiff Central will be an interesting seat in GE 2015. Might well offer a good example for testing the LD switchers theory. If 25% of LD GE2010 switch to Labour then she's gone. But may a % of the Tories vote tactically with a view to continuing the coalition?
The Conservatives once got 25% in an Ashcroft poll so I'd be a bit worried if it was them.
It's probably the Lib Dems as Ashcroft's polls are extremely Green friendly.
Having done a bit more research, previous lows are:
Con 25 Lab 30 LD 6 UKIP 14
So Lord A has either Lab, Con or LibDem below those figures. I don't think there is any chance that he will put UKIP below 14%.
Con below 25% would be a big big bad for them, Lab below 30% would be a big big bad for them, but the trend shows it as a possibility. If that is the case, then is it above or below the Gordon Score? If Lord A is Green friendly, then that could squeeze Labour. LibDem below 6%, well by now that is water off a ducks back, can't go much lower so would pass by unnoticed.
If it is Lab below 20%, it will open the doors to a poll with 3 parties in 20s at some time. What fun!
If Murphy does not get it, with double the MSPs and more than double the MPs of either rival, the person who beats him may have major problems in managing the MSPs and MPs.
Murphy will win on the second ballot, I think. One third of the votes go to MPs/MSPs; one third to the membership (who I'd think will go Murphy), and one third to unions and affiliates (who won't all agree with UNITE).
This amusing little episode led me to check out Dover more than I would normally do from a betting point of view. I'd seriously recommend backing UKIP at 3/1. Little seems like a decent candidate, whereas Elphicke isn't one of the brightest sparks in the Tory firework display. The only local poll I could find is very old but it points emphatically UKIP's way, as do the the local Euro results. As usual, DYOR - but if UKIP win a dozen seats next May, this is likely to be one of them.
Carswell continues to channel his Hodges / Miliband version of obsession ...his of course being with his former party...
Douglas Carswell MP ✔ @DouglasCarswell Merkel won't let govt restrict immigration. Wets won't let govt scrap HRA. Cheap credit won't make economy productive #MessinaWontSaveYou
What's your view on the British nation having to hang on to the words of the German Chancellor to see whether we can control our own borders or not?
Another Kipper running at the first whiff of cordite - get some nuts.
Unless Cameron has defected since this morning, his delusion that he can wrestle poodles and win is surely a Tory problem? So, more a case of - get some popcorn.
You are Mister Apollo and I claim my £5.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ubgv0-Nk7o
Damn, was hoping that would mystify everyone.
Perhaps Cameron could go off hunting tigers out in India.
This amusing little episode led me to check out Dover more than I would normally do from a betting point of view. I'd seriously recommend backing UKIP at 3/1. Little seems like a decent candidate, whereas Elphicke isn't one of the brightest sparks in the Tory firework display. The only local poll I could find is very old but it points emphatically UKIP's way, as do the the local Euro results. As usual, DYOR - but if UKIP win a dozen seats next May, this is likely to be one of them.
If Murphy does not get it, with double the MSPs and more than double the MPs of either rival, the person who beats him may have major problems in managing the MSPs and MPs.
Murphy will win on the second ballot, I think. One third of the votes go to MPs/MSPs; one third to the membership (who I'd think will go Murphy), and one third to unions and affiliates (who won't all agree with UNITE).
How is the membership worked out? How long do you have to be a member before you can vote? Are the databases up to date with joiners? Have the leavers been deleted?
They often cause a bit of controversy these membership lists.
If Murphy does not get it, with double the MSPs and more than double the MPs of either rival, the person who beats him may have major problems in managing the MSPs and MPs.
Murphy will win on the second ballot, I think. One third of the votes go to MPs/MSPs; one third to the membership (who I'd think will go Murphy), and one third to unions and affiliates (who won't all agree with UNITE).
Unite have had more than one episode of "working with members" in various constituencies.
This amusing little episode led me to check out Dover more than I would normally do from a betting point of view. I'd seriously recommend backing UKIP at 3/1. Little seems like a decent candidate, whereas Elphicke isn't one of the brightest sparks in the Tory firework display. The only local poll I could find is very old but it points emphatically UKIP's way, as do the the local Euro results. As usual, DYOR - but if UKIP win a dozen seats next May, this is likely to be one of them.
However, this was not particularly related to the respective virtues of the candidates.
I think UKIP are right to be favourite in Thurrock but is 4/5 really value? I am tempted by the 15/8 Labour
The UKIP price will shorten yet. You may well be right that 4/5 is short enough in theory, but markets don't react, they overreact, and we're going to get an overreaction in 19 days' time.
This amusing little episode led me to check out Dover more than I would normally do from a betting point of view. I'd seriously recommend backing UKIP at 3/1. Little seems like a decent candidate, whereas Elphicke isn't one of the brightest sparks in the Tory firework display. The only local poll I could find is very old but it points emphatically UKIP's way, as do the the local Euro results. As usual, DYOR - but if UKIP win a dozen seats next May, this is likely to be one of them.
Would Labour agree to a Westminster coalition with the SNP next year in exchange for another Indyref?
SNP: How can a party that is (still) committed to breaking-up the UK with a straight face enter into a UK government?
Labour: Unless it has a death wish, how can a party elevate such people to positions of authority over the whole of the UK? (remembering that, unlike the present coalition, only such larger party can suffer the subsequent displeasure of the voters, since 92% can't vote either for or against the SNP)
All MPs are equal and all MPs should be allowed authority over the whole of the UK if they can enter into government.
But ...
The SNP would, I think, be more likely to go for a s & c agreement. The party is already forbidden to go into coalition with Tories (by a party conference motion, I believe). And it has the experience of the first SNP administration, from the governing side.
As for Labour, assuming Labour victory in the UK but not England, the SNP still wouldn't vote on English laws etc., so a Labour-SNP coalition would be a funny sort of three-legged coalition unless the UK administration was properly reorganised into UK and England departments - Home Office split, etc. I think we can all judge how likely that is. Even then, Labour would still need a very strong leader in London to bring SLAB to heel given SLAB attitudes to the SNP, or risk a real split. Which strong leadership would be rather contrary to SNP principles ...
On the second point, note the theoretical possibility that the SNP could form a parliamentary alliance with, say, PC and the Greens, which obviates that objection to some extent. [edit: redundant verbiage deleted]
In essence then you agree with me. It's a nonsensical idea under current constitutional arrangements, as well as being politically impossible for either party.
Related objections pertain to the idea of a Tory-DUP coalition...
Pretty much, on first thoughts, yes, unless of course there is a drastic change in policy somewhere, or something like SLAB splitting from London. It's hard to see a coalition working without evil consequences somewhere along the line, electorally or otherwise, and the SNP have already watched the LDs cut their own throats twice - once at Holyrood and once in Westminster.
This might be of interest (bit of obvious Labour-baiting going on, not least because it won't be Mr S's decision to make anyway, and I suspect some journalistic stirring and a misleading headline):
If Murphy does not get it, with double the MSPs and more than double the MPs of either rival, the person who beats him may have major problems in managing the MSPs and MPs.
Those MP/MSP numbers add up to a 2.84% lead of the whole SLAB electoral college - not significant yet.
SCOTLAND has won the first ever Daily Mash Git of the Year award.
The small, cold, northern European hell-hole beat off stiff competition from rival gits including Russian maniac Vladimir Putin and Anyone Who Lives in a Converted Barn.
Professor Henry Brubaker of the Institute for Studies said: ”All sensible people would agree that Scotland has been a massive pain in the arse this year, not least to itself.
”’Git’ almost seems inadequate, but if we’d used anything stronger someone probably would have reported us on Facebook.
The rightwing's hysterical reaction to Ed Miliband's donation to the Manchester street beggar is another fine example of how conservatism is eating itself.
DId you all really believe Ed had donated just a tuppence?
Are you really that blinkered by rightwing partisanship to not stop to breathe for two seconds and wonder just how damaging a 2p donation really would be, and thus using Occam's razor it was very unlikely to be the truth?
You are so right - it matters not that she was 14 nor a professional beggar - it was all in the amount <£1 that Ed passed over..</p>
Ah, I see. Ed was supposed to ask for personal data before donating.
Back on planet earth...
Thus the risks of giving to a beggar - which I would never ever do under any circumstances - it is not a constructive thing to do.
This is the risk. But that is not what Miliband was attacked for.
The t-shirt thing is another matter. He deserves both barrels on that.
It wasn't for being out of touch on begging ?
No, the hysteria surrounded his apparently looking awkward in a photograph (don't see it myself, just looks as one would getting up after bending over on the move) and the absurd rightwing belief, since inevitably torpedoed, that he only gave 2p.
The rightwing's hysterical reaction to Ed Miliband's donation to the Manchester street beggar is another fine example of how conservatism is eating itself.
DId you all really believe Ed had donated just a tuppence?
Are you really that blinkered by rightwing partisanship to not stop to breathe for two seconds and wonder just how damaging a 2p donation really would be, and thus using Occam's razor it was very unlikely to be the truth?
You are so right - it matters not that she was 14 nor a professional beggar - it was all in the amount <£1 that Ed passed over..</p>
Ah, I see. Ed was supposed to ask for personal data before donating.
Back on planet earth...
Thus the risks of giving to a beggar - which I would never ever do under any circumstances - it is not a constructive thing to do.
This is the risk. But that is not what Miliband was attacked for.
The t-shirt thing is another matter. He deserves both barrels on that.
It wasn't for being out of touch on begging ?
No, the hysteria surrounded his apparently looking awkward in a photograph (don't see it myself, just looks as one would getting up after bending over on the move) and the absurd rightwing belief, since inevitably torpedoed, that he only gave 2p.
Comments
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/531483/jewish/Why-is-it-customary-to-eat-fish-on-Friday-night.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2818359/MP-s-expenses-records-shredded-amid-accusations-authorities-trying-avoid-scrutiny-claims.html
In the hypothetical case, Ed Muppet as PM, a prisoner of parliament (for 5 years?) unable to pass any meaningful legislation...
This doesn't have to be a point scoring nit picking row, you can answer honestly
http://politicalbookie.wordpress.com/2014/11/03/who-will-be-elected-mayor-of-manchester/
I shall go at 1pm.
If I don't give an update by say 3pm then I've either been picked up by the Rozzers, mugged or ended up in the village.
Will it be 10-20% or 20-30%?
If I get priced up higher than Bez, I'll be gutted.
Douglas Carswell MP ✔ @DouglasCarswell
Merkel won't let govt restrict immigration. Wets won't let govt scrap HRA. Cheap credit won't make economy productive #MessinaWontSaveYou
I was on Villa to win yesterday.
Your mob cost me nearly £100.
http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/61144/bongo-bongo-cartoon-lands-ukip-candidate-in-the-soup
That would be ideal. My hope is that by ramping up the Personal Allowance and Minimum Wage, working tax credit can be cut in a way that is not too painful or obvious for those who lose it.
Not very PC.
It used to be a non-runner of an idea on practical grounds, but modern technology and electronic filing now make it not only possible but pretty straight forward. I really am struggling to see a serious down side.
So it is all your fault.
You're like Mark Reckless to me now.
Murphy 27 (13 MSPs, 14 MPs)
Findlay 11 (6 MSPs, 5 MPs)
Boyack 10 (7 MSPs, 3 MPs)
Dugdale 29 (18 MSPs, 11 MPs)
Clark 9 (3 MSPs, 6 MPs)
Closing date is tomorrow
www.scottishlabour.org.uk/pages/scottish-labour-leadership-election-nominations
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/police-give-ed-miliband-ticking-8031545
Lib Dems 2/1
Tories 8/1
UKIP 25/1
(tissue prices only, natürlich).
I suppose, to be fair, that to some extent that the significantly reduced number of lorries coming across will reduce the possibilities of illegal ingress.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11202976/Cheap-immigrant-labour-has-cost-blue-collar-Britain-dear.html
Incidentally what was EdM doing in Manchester and did he make time to visit his own constituency in his trip northwards ?
It also struck me that EdM's political problems are based on the same character traits which brought his brother's downfall, namely cowardice and complacency.
Cowardice in that EdM has never been willing to think, or experience life, outside his Dartmouth Park comfort zone and complacency in that he assumed all the Labour voters of 2010 had nowhere else to go.
How things might be different if my offer here to show EdM around his constituency at the bargain price of £1000pd had been taken up.
Lib Dems 2/1
Tories 8/1
UKIP 25/1
(tissue prices only, natürlich).
He put an apostrophe in its?
Its shocking, I know.
It's probably the Lib Dems as Ashcroft's polls are extremely Green friendly.
If that's the worst anybody comes up with, it's a definite runner. And it's not as radical as it sounds at first take. A number of countries have it, or something similar, and we are part way there in that you can already obtain company accounts which disclose a good deal of tax information.
I suspect the objections would come from those with most to lose, namely those who have been cheating for years and getting away with it.
Con 25 Lab 30 LD 6 UKIP 14
Public Schools, ennit? Aint got no standards.
As a Labour MP, I strongly believe my party should be forever beating a loud drum about the value of work, about instilling a strong work ethic into people and about how character and achievement comes from hard work. My fear is that an increased reliance on cheap migrant labour to drive some sectors in our economy is chipping away at a bedrock of working class pride, allowing a once strong work ethic to drain away and it’s being done with a comfortable and badly misinformed political consensus.
The problem is the stupidity of the English language here. "Its" by all sensible logic should have a possessive apostrophe.
Now that politicians of the two biggest parties are finally admitting what I have been saying on here for years, maybe their PB fans will finally accept the truth
Mass Immigration is a Stealth Tax on the Working Class. It makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer
Denis McShane.
'difficulties'.
No other possessive pronouns do (hi's, her's ?)
Fair point.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ubgv0-Nk7o
The headline may be unfair but it grabs attention. The article itself was however more than fair to UKIP. (The same was true of yesterday's Sunday People piece on this subject.) Charlie Elphicke comes out of it looking a bit humourless and silly, David Little gets some nice publicity.
UKIP 2 Tories 0. Charlie will have to do a lot better in the return leg.
Bjarni Benediktsson, Iceland’s foreign minister says Iceland is better off out of the EU…
“We have reached the clear conclusion over and over again that Iceland’s interests are better secured outside the EU. That is our conclusion and to my opinion that conclusion is becoming stronger.”
"But {Blair] is clear that stopping immigration would be ‘a disaster for this country’. Labour, he says, should not ‘end up chasing after the policies of a party like Ukip, who you don’t agree with, whose policies would take this country backwards economically, politically, in every conceivable way, and who, ultimately, at the heart of what they do, have a rather nasty core of prejudice that none of us believe in, which you’ve actually got to take on and fight. So the way to deal with this is to deal with it by what you believe.’ "
http://www.progressonline.org.uk/pick_of_the_week/it-might-be-worth-listening-to-me/
Further to my comment below:
This amusing little episode led me to check out Dover more than I would normally do from a betting point of view. I'd seriously recommend backing UKIP at 3/1. Little seems like a decent candidate, whereas Elphicke isn't one of the brightest sparks in the Tory firework display. The only local poll I could find is very old but it points emphatically UKIP's way, as do the the local Euro results. As usual, DYOR - but if UKIP win a dozen seats next May, this is likely to be one of them.
Sunil Prasannan @Sunil_P2 · 17h17 hours ago
Sunil on Sunday's ELBOW (Electoral Leader-Board Of the Week) update 2nd Nov. Lab 32.9%, Con 32.2, UKIP 16.3, LD 7.5
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/529018633784406016
Con below 25% would be a big big bad for them, Lab below 30% would be a big big bad for them, but the trend shows it as a possibility. If that is the case, then is it above or below the Gordon Score? If Lord A is Green friendly, then that could squeeze Labour. LibDem below 6%, well by now that is water off a ducks back, can't go much lower so would pass by unnoticed.
If it is Lab below 20%, it will open the doors to a poll with 3 parties in 20s at some time. What fun!
http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/the-ukip-battleground-in-november-2014.html
However, this was not particularly related to the respective virtues of the candidates.
http://archbishopcranmer.com/rochester-strood-the-christian-case-for-supporting-mark-reckless/
I must be a sinner as I don't buy his arguments myself.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od2PBlZ3ZQM
They often cause a bit of controversy these membership lists.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/let-australians-live-and-work-in-britain-london-mayor-boris-johnson-backs-migration-report-20141103-11fwfn.html
PB's kettle of punting vultures are circling over Dover. The 3/1 cannot last long.
New Thread
This might be of interest (bit of obvious Labour-baiting going on, not least because it won't be Mr S's decision to make anyway, and I suspect some journalistic stirring and a misleading headline):
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/salmond-i-could-be-kingmaker-in-coalition-at-westminster.25753111
http://conservativewoman.co.uk/camerons-tories-are-no-different-to-labour/
Words that are balm to kippers.