Could any of our Scottish chums expand on what Lamont was getting at in her departure? What was behind her leaving? And who are these dinosaurs of Scottish Labour politics? (In my innocence, I thought they all were....)
Two small points, she was not allowed to give her opinion on bedroom tax for a year while Ed made up his mind whilst SNP made hay and just recently the Scottish General secretary , one of her top aides was called to London and sacked without her even knowing. Scottish leader's job is not even up to being rated as a puppet.
Is that right? It took Ed a year to make up his mind on the bedroom tax? That and the NHS are about all Labour has got going into the next election.
Or you could actually come up with some facts before posting the usual fatuous nonsense. Read that as a condemnation of Conservative and Labour economic policies from 1979 onwards.
"Successive Governments have beggared the future to fund today's indulgences" - and if you want to know why I'm no fan of Margaret Thatcher or Tony Blair, it's all in that sentence. Every tax cut we got back then has come back to bite us now.
When you look at the national accounts and you look at the ludicrously vast sums produced by North Sea oil in the mid 80's you have to wonder where it all fucking went.
And the income from North Sea Oil contributed towards the massive restructuring that we needed to do to the economy in the 1980s. The Butskellite consensus of propping up failing industries with transfer payments had reached the end of the road
We now have an Osbrown consensus of propping up wealth consumption via government borrowing, zero interest rates and subsidised house prices.
With government borrowing over £100bn at the top of the economic cycle and a balance of payments deficit of over £90bn the end of that road is signaled.
No, we don't.
ZIRP is something I'd been keen for us to move away from as soon as possible. I and I think that within 12 months we will have done. On consumption, again, I'd agree, but given how attenuated our manufacturing base had become over the last 15-20 years it will take time to rebalance.
Subsidised house prices are, IMHO, a necessary evil. It will be a disaster if it becomes a long-term issue. However, at the moment because of the interplay of ZIRP, housing benefits and tax policy, the perceived stability of the UK political system and the relative liquidity of the housing market, housing as an asset class is ridiculously over-valued. That means you have three choices: (1) shrug and say, "I don't care that there is a generation of Brits who can't afford to buy their first home"; (2) take action to rapidly bring down house prices, shrug and say "I don't care about the write offs that the banks will have to take and the need to recapitalise them through government action"; or (3) take action to increase supply and property taxes and hope that prices will come down gradually but in the meantime provide a temporary support to allow people to people to aspire to own their own home.
In general, we agree on the objective, but I'm prepared to take longer to get there. Perhaps I value the shattered dreams and broken lives that your approach would entail rather higher than you do?
She got 100% of members vote for SNP leader , there was no-one willing to go up against her. However if there had been all party members would have voted on it , unlike Labour where members are not even 3rd class citizens.
For FM it is all MSP's who vote who will be FM and that vote will take place in next few weeks.
Most amusing to discover that TSE thinks that 'plebs' was a term of insult in Roman discussions.
When in fact the plebians were around 99% of the Roman citizens including at the end of the Republic Cicero, Cato, Crassus, Pompey, Brutus, Cassius, Antony and Octavian.
And I can assure everyone that in South Yorkshire an Establishment Tory lawyer who's father is a doctor, who went to boarding school and who lives in Dore is the epitome of posh.
No matter what accent he puts on.
No surprise to find TSE wrong on the classics again.
Here's an interesting article on the subject. Note especially the last paragraph.
No, give up. You were wrong last night because you don't know the Latin for "political party" or how noun-adjective agreement works where there is a choice on nouns to agree with. Showing off that you have access to Wikipedia doesn't get you out of the hole.
Could any of our Scottish chums expand on what Lamont was getting at in her departure? What was behind her leaving? And who are these dinosaurs of Scottish Labour politics? (In my innocence, I thought they all were....)
Two small points, she was not allowed to give her opinion on bedroom tax for a year while Ed made up his mind whilst SNP made hay and just recently the Scottish General secretary , one of her top aides was called to London and sacked without her even knowing. Scottish leader's job is not even up to being rated as a puppet.
Is that right? It took Ed a year to make up his mind on the bedroom tax? That and the NHS are about all Labour has got going into the next election.
Yes, she originally said Labour would get rid of it and was told not to say anything again till Ed decided what London position was , and it was over a year before she was allowed to mention it again.
She got 100% of members vote for SNP leader , there was no-one willing to go up against her. However if there had been all party members would have voted on it , unlike Labour where members are not even 3rd class citizens.
For FM it is all MSP's who vote who will be FM and that vote will take place in next few weeks.
Sturgeon " the chosen one " will be the Moyes to Salmond's Ferguson. A mistake.
That's very different. Sturgeon 'won' because she was in effect acclaimed across the whole party, rather as Howard was in 2003. She didn't even need the organised bullying Brown indulged in to the same end in 2007.
She got 100% of members vote for SNP leader , there was no-one willing to go up against her. However if there had been all party members would have voted on it , unlike Labour where members are not even 3rd class citizens.
For FM it is all MSP's who vote who will be FM and that vote will take place in next few weeks.
Sturgeon " the chosen one " will be the Moyes to Salmond's Ferguson. A mistake.
Sturgeon is the most popular politician in Scotland (unless Harvie has over taken her on net favourables) it's hardly the same thing,
Most amusing to discover that TSE thinks that 'plebs' was a term of insult in Roman discussions.
When in fact the plebians were around 99% of the Roman citizens including at the end of the Republic Cicero, Cato, Crassus, Pompey, Brutus, Cassius, Antony and Octavian.
And I can assure everyone that in South Yorkshire an Establishment Tory lawyer who's father is a doctor, who went to boarding school and who lives in Dore is the epitome of posh.
No matter what accent he puts on.
That falls flat on its arse like all the other wannabe erudite attacks on TSE's Latinity which rather puzzlingly litter the site at the moment. He said it in English, in which it's an insult.
Secondly Lewis and Short give as a secondary meaning:
Transf., in gen. The great mass, the multitude: in Hyrcaniā, plebs publicos alit canes, optimates domesticos, Cic. Tusc. 1, 45, 108: plebem et infimam multitudinem delinire, id. Mil. 35, 95.— With accessory notion of contempt, the populace, the lower class or order, the mass (poet. and in post-Aug. prose) (my emphasis)
Thirdly an insult can be an insult regardless of its being true of 99% of everybody. Consider the word "w_nker".
Fourthly would-be pedants should not write "who's" for "whose".
Oh dear, language and history lessons all in one! Pleeeeeese, it's a Sunday; time for quiet meditation.
More important than choice of leader in Scotland for Labour is cutting the party free from London. Scottish Labour only has a long term future if it is an independent party with to free to make its own policy. Holyrood is number one now for all Scottish parties and Scottish Labour MPs, as well as Ed and co, have to recognise that.
Completely OT. The joys of overbearing socialist governance. A colleague has just posted me a picture from Norway of a Guinness mirror inside our old local The Irishman in Stavanger along with the following message:
"Here in Norway, Stavanger the local council has come up with the bright idea of banning alcohol advertising, fine, but this even stretches to the inside of a pub, so this is causing a few problems with my watering hole "The Irishman". As the picture shows they have to blank out any reference to drink, as it can encourage you to drink. I am, as no doubt you are, wondering just why I would be in an Irish bar on a Saturday night if I was confused over the decision to have a pint or not. You have to love Norway and the local councils , they really have nothing better to do than make up stupid rules to justify their jobs."
Charles, I broadly agree with your post (although your conclusion was a little mean). Politics has become an exercise in pragmatism, in which a fair amount of damaging activity is allowed to persist because the consequences of tackling it immediately would be too severe. This is compounded by the essential flaw of democracy; that it encourages the deferral of hard decisions. And therein lies the rub; one might charitably argue that politicians are charting a pragmatic course to minimise distress, but one could equally assert that they are ducking the big decisions that need to be made in the long-term interests of the country, hiding their electoral self-interest under a cloak of paternalistic concern for the people.
In almost all policy areas - infrastructure, energy, constitutional reform, education, welfare, pensions, health and social care - the current political class lack the courage to make the decisions necessary in the face of popular opposition. The Conservatives and to a lesser extent the Liberal Democrats have at least started to address some of these issues, but tentatively and with little conviction.
"The researcher added in her report: "The minutes of those meetings showed that I had apparently agreed to certain conditions regarding the disclosure of the data....I had not attended any such meetings, in fact the date of one of the meetings that I had supposedly attended was when I was overseas on annual leave."
There is an old allegation of lost files, but now a hint that evidence is fabricated. Someone is taking someone else for a walk.
More important than choice of leader in Scotland for Labour is cutting the party free from London. Scottish Labour only has a long term future if it is an independent party with to free to make its own policy. Holyrood is number one now for all Scottish parties and Scottish Labour MPs, as well as Ed and co, have to recognise that.
I think you're wrong. Following the failed independence referendum Holyrood will fade into near insignificance. I see that Salmond is planning on scuttling back to Westminster now that the Holyrood game is over.
She got 100% of members vote for SNP leader , there was no-one willing to go up against her. However if there had been all party members would have voted on it , unlike Labour where members are not even 3rd class citizens.
For FM it is all MSP's who vote who will be FM and that vote will take place in next few weeks.
Sturgeon " the chosen one " will be the Moyes to Salmond's Ferguson. A mistake.
Far from it as we will see, leading the only major centre left party in Scotland with her values is a perfect match.
More important than choice of leader in Scotland for Labour is cutting the party free from London. Scottish Labour only has a long term future if it is an independent party with to free to make its own policy. Holyrood is number one now for all Scottish parties and Scottish Labour MPs, as well as Ed and co, have to recognise that.
SO , they will never do it, and not a big enough trough in Scotland for Labour. They will not become millionaires being at Holyrood.
Slightly off topic but one of the stories on the front page of the ST business section today is that Osborne is going to require UK banks to raise billions in additional capital. This, of course, is not unconnected with the publication of the EZ stress tests on their banks today which are expected to fail at least 10% of the relevant banking institutions (basically the big ones).
We are therefore very likely to see further declines in bank lending at a time when the economy is losing momentum already, basically a repeat of 2010-11. The assumption that everything in the economic garden is going to look rosy (apart from the deficit which far too few people seem to care about) in May of next year looks increasingly misplaced to me.
Does Mr Osborne have that power though? I thought bank regulation was one of the EU's powers.
No, the regulation of UK banks is largely a matter for UK authorities and in particular the Prudential Regulation Authority. It is a different story in the EZ because, of course, the ECB stands behind those banks as the LOLR. Of course the UK is signed up to various international accords such as Basle II which has an impact on policy but decisions as to capital will inevitably be made by the LOLR, that is the BoE.
But Basle II does cover capital reserves, doesn't it? And it was implemented into UK law in response to an EU Directive.
Basle III also appears to be coming to the UK via the EU.
More important than choice of leader in Scotland for Labour is cutting the party free from London. Scottish Labour only has a long term future if it is an independent party with to free to make its own policy. Holyrood is number one now for all Scottish parties and Scottish Labour MPs, as well as Ed and co, have to recognise that.
I think you're wrong. Following the failed independence referendum Holyrood will fade into near insignificance. I see that Salmond is planning on scuttling back to Westminster now that the Holyrood game is over.
Absolutely cuckoo, can you really be as dim as you make out.
More important than choice of leader in Scotland for Labour is cutting the party free from London. Scottish Labour only has a long term future if it is an independent party with to free to make its own policy. Holyrood is number one now for all Scottish parties and Scottish Labour MPs, as well as Ed and co, have to recognise that.
SO , they will never do it, and not a big enough trough in Scotland for Labour. They will not become millionaires being at Holyrood.
If that is true Labour will die in Scotland. But I think you may be slightly biased! Scotland will still return MPs, of course and they will still be able to be UK ministers; but the real centre of power for home-based Scottish politicians of all parties will be (and should be) Holyrood.
More important than choice of leader in Scotland for Labour is cutting the party free from London. Scottish Labour only has a long term future if it is an independent party with to free to make its own policy. Holyrood is number one now for all Scottish parties and Scottish Labour MPs, as well as Ed and co, have to recognise that.
I think you're wrong. Following the failed independence referendum Holyrood will fade into near insignificance. I see that Salmond is planning on scuttling back to Westminster now that the Holyrood game is over.
Absolutely cuckoo, can you really be as dim as you make out.
Eck is always a few steps ahead. He's voting with his feet and Westminster bound.
You have to love Norway and the local councils , they really have nothing better to do than make up stupid rules to justify their jobs."
There's a suggestion that the US federal government's restrictions on gun ownership were a response to the end of prohibition. The alcohol-regulation employees needed to find something to do.
(I think I came across this in the 'unintended consequences' novel.)
Odds shorten on a #UKIP win in South Yorkshire PCC election.
The election labour would ban.
I’d normally say anyone but UKIP ....... but TBH if someone puts a few fireworks up a few policemen’s and local politician's fundaments in S Yorkshire ......
'He’s articulate, tough, and like Sturgeon is from Glasgow. '
Sturgeon is from Irvine in Ayrshire, not Glasgow.
As Old Labour suggests (as with the misplaced infatuation with Darling), Murphy is right wingers & Southrons idea of a successful Scottish politician, Scots not so much.
This is also a huge test of leadership for EdM. Is he brave and wise enough to stand up to the troughing Scottish Labour mafia or will he fudge it? If he does the latter, he may well be writing his own death sentence, but to do the former successfully will take a lot of guts and no little cunning, as well as vision. Brown will probably dictate what happens next. Unlike Ed he has a powerbase in the Labour party.
Odds shorten on a #UKIP win in South Yorkshire PCC election.
The election labour would ban.
I’d normally say anyone but UKIP ....... but TBH if someone puts a few fireworks up a few policemen’s and local politician's fundaments in S Yorkshire ......
Couldn't agree more. Labour deserves a kicking in South Yorkshire. And we'll get to see UKIP exercising some real power, which will be helpful.
- Labour have started to talk more about localism recently; this will be a big test of the party's commitment to that principle
- all Westminster parties need to recognise that Scottish politics is at least one degree to the left of UK politics, and respond accordingly. The issue is most acute for Labour, who need to try to maintain broad appeal in the UK while still representing the left in Scotland. Loosening the ties and giving Scottish Labour greater independence to run its own affairs and take its own positions would help Labour manage that tension (as long as the rUK and Scottish Labour parties still subscribe to some common principles). It is also vital if Labour is to avoid a calamity in Scotland against a strong and motivated SNP
- Holyrood is going to become increasingly important as more powers are delegated to it; it's extraordinary for Moniker to claim otherwise. There is no reason to think Sturgeon will fail - she performed very well in the heat of the referendum, has had a long apprenticeship and has been a key part of a successful administration. She was appointed by universal acclamation and has the support of a growing party membership. I can see challenges ahead, particularly if (as surely he will) Alex Salmond remains involved in frontline politics and particularly if the other parties spike the SNP's guns by delivering extensive further powers, as promised. But there's no particular reason to think she will fail
- I thought Jim Murphy was very impressive in the referendum campaign and am not surprised to see him touted for the role. I find it much harder to believe Gordon would do it - it's hard for any PM to come back into a lesser role these days, and there is a huge question mark over Gordon's appetite for a contested election, or for taking on the leadership role with with two heavy defeats (not of his making) looming over the horizon. Not surprised he has apparently ruled himself out.
Jim Murphy has too much Blairite baggage that fits in far too neatly with the SNP claim that Labour are "red Tories".Support for him in the indyref came from the Tory media where he was acclaimed by no less than Lord Ashcroft.He would likely lead SLAB further down the plughole and after the leader of Unite described him as one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse he is unlikely to receive support from that quarter.I've literally had a left-field punt on Neil Findlay at 16-1,coming from the health brief in Holyrood.
"Wouldn't having an MP (rather than MSP) simply reinforce Lamont's comments about Labour and Miliband? "
That would certainly be the justifiable SNP line of attack, but I don't believe it outweighs the advantages to Labour of having their most effective active Scottish politician as the leader of the British Labour Party in Scotland in the lead up to the 2015 GE.
On the assumption that it will be beneath Brown's dignity to even pretend he would seek to enter Holyrood, the lifelong politician Murphy (apparently 9 years at Strathclyde University engaging in politics, never graduated) is likely to be the choice.
The scenario I am inclined to envisage is this: Murphy commits to entering Holyrood at the 2016 election, not before (the precedent for such an approach being provided by no less a person than Salmond). I would recommend Malcolm Chisholm MSP as the Labour voice at FM questions but I doubt that will ever happen. If it is Kezia Dugdale, Sturgeon will eat her alive.
If the SNP are successfully resisted in the 2015 GE but Labour lose the GE, Murphy is a more serious candidate for UK leadership. He also has the then more attractive option of aiming for First Minister in 2016.
If Labour win the 2015 GE, there is nothing to prevent Murphy accepting a more senior cabinet role with a view to a future shot at PM, and never standing for Holyrood at all-an excuse can always be found.
Do I like and admire Jim Murphy?-not in the slightest, and I hope that his shortcomings will be exposed by the vigilance of the MSM (joke!). I do, however, recognise his political effectiveness to date, and enjoyed betting on him to hold his East Renfrewshire seat at GE 2010 (he did-massively increased majority) when one or two on here seriously thought the Tories might take the seat.
'He’s articulate, tough, and like Sturgeon is from Glasgow. '
Sturgeon is from Irvine in Ayrshire, not Glasgow.
As Old Labour suggests (as with the misplaced infatuation with Darling), Murphy is right wingers & Southrons idea of a successful Scottish politician, Scots not so much.
As a Tory, I'd be much more concerned about Murphy as Scottish Labour leader than another machine politician from Glasgow that no-one's heard of. (I know East Renfrewshire's next door to Glasgow but it really isn't the same thing).
Good point did they even have a vote for Sturgeon ?
She was the only candidate , so why would you waste a fortune asking people to vote. The SNP are not stupid.
No the RUK establishment are trying so hard to keep you in the UK.
The sense of grievance will never go away with so called devomax, it just prolongs the agony. I wanted you to get Independence.
I agree, it will just drag on for years now. Unless the great vow is implemented realistically close to what was promised it may be sooner rather than later. Personally I still cannot believe how stupid and pathetic Scottish people are that a majority can vote to be run by another country. Makes me wonder if we could actually run the country successfully with as many stupid people in it.
- Labour have started to talk more about localism recently; this will be a big test of the party's commitment to that principle
- all Westminster parties need to recognise that Scottish politics is at least one degree to the left of UK politics, and respond accordingly. The issue is most acute for Labour, who need to try to maintain broad appeal in the UK while still representing the left in Scotland. Loosening the ties and giving Scottish Labour greater independence to run its own affairs and take its own positions would help Labour manage that tension (as long as the rUK and Scottish Labour parties still subscribe to some common principles). It is also vital if Labour is to avoid a calamity in Scotland against a strong and motivated SNP
- Holyrood is going to become increasingly important as more powers are delegated to it; it's extraordinary for Moniker to claim otherwise. There is no reason to think Sturgeon will fail - she performed very well in the heat of the referendum, has had a long apprenticeship and has been a key part of a successful administration. She was appointed by universal acclamation and has the support of a growing party membership. I can see challenges ahead, particularly if (as surely he will) Alex Salmond remains involved in frontline politics and particularly if the other parties spike the SNP's guns by delivering extensive further powers, as promised. But there's no particular reason to think she will fail
- I thought Jim Murphy was very impressive in the referendum campaign and am not surprised to see him touted for the role. I find it much harder to believe Gordon would do it - it's hard for any PM to come back into a lesser role these days, and there is a huge question mark over Gordon's appetite for a contested election, or for taking on the leadership role with with two heavy defeats (not of his making) looming over the horizon. Not surprised he has apparently ruled himself out.
Odds shorten on a #UKIP win in South Yorkshire PCC election.
The election labour would ban.
I’d normally say anyone but UKIP ....... but TBH if someone puts a few fireworks up a few policemen’s and local politician's fundaments in S Yorkshire ......
It should be anyone but Labour if the South Yorks electorate have any sense. But I'd be wary about the UKIP candidate as he's an ex-Inspector with that very force between 1976 and 2006.
Will he be willing and able to stand up to the force as well as the council? Is he too much of an insider to reliably hold the police to account?
On the other hand, he also worked in victim support for two years.
'He’s articulate, tough, and like Sturgeon is from Glasgow. '
Sturgeon is from Irvine in Ayrshire, not Glasgow.
As Old Labour suggests (as with the misplaced infatuation with Darling), Murphy is right wingers & Southrons idea of a successful Scottish politician, Scots not so much.
Also Sturgeon actually has principles and is fighting for what she believes. Murphy is fighting for himself and his bank balance , he will adopt or drop any principles to make that goal. I believe he would shove his granny off the bus if he needed to help himself.
TUD, she is really from Dreghorn if we are being pedantic and local.
Is Ed pushing Murphy to remove an immediate threat?
There once was a pb poster who used to pollute this site with "PB Tories never learn" etc etc. What is to be said about Labour MPs? At the last GE they had a Leader with terrible ratings and yet they let him lead them to a net loss of 91 seats.
At this GE they have another Leader with terrible ratings and yet they do nothing as they lead them to ....... er "they hope a net gain of 70+ seats"!
Or a gain of 85+ English & Welsh seats if they lose a net 15 in Scotland.
Jim Murphy has too much Blairite baggage that fits in far too neatly with the SNP claim that Labour are "red Tories".Support for him in the indyref came from the Tory media where he was acclaimed by no less than Lord Ashcroft.He would likely lead SLAB further down the plughole and after the leader of Unite described him as one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse he is unlikely to receive support from that quarter.I've literally had a left-field punt on Neil Findlay at 16-1,coming from the health brief in Holyrood.
Pete, Findlay does not even make donkey level , but there is not much competition for sure. Mackintosh is the only one that can string a few words together whilst still absolute crap, but he did not get union support last time so may be yesterday's man. It is almost impossible to think of any Labour MSP that even remotely has any potential to ever be a leader of anything.
Odds shorten on a #UKIP win in South Yorkshire PCC election.
The election labour would ban.
I’d normally say anyone but UKIP ....... but TBH if someone puts a few fireworks up a few policemen’s and local politician's fundaments in S Yorkshire ......
It should be anyone but Labour if the South Yorks electorate have any sense. But I'd be wary about the UKIP candidate as he's an ex-Inspector with that very force between 1976 and 2006.
Will he be willing and able to stand up to the force as well as the council? Is he too much of an insider to reliably hold the police to account?
On the other hand, he also worked in victim support for two years.
Take the point, but poachers and gamekeepers?
And the Conservative candidate seems to be saying that S Yorks police are doing a good job!
'He’s articulate, tough, and like Sturgeon is from Glasgow. '
Sturgeon is from Irvine in Ayrshire, not Glasgow.
As Old Labour suggests (as with the misplaced infatuation with Darling), Murphy is right wingers & Southrons idea of a successful Scottish politician, Scots not so much.
Sturgeon isn't from Irvine, she's from Dreghorn. There is a big difference.
Caught the back end of a conversation on Sky News just now, two chaps discussing the eurozone. The suggestion (which seems hard to argue against) was that the eurozone would integrate far more and that the UK, in the EU but outside the eurozone, would eventually have to choose to leave the EU or join the eurozone.
If the EU offers Cameron nothing he should campaign to leave. I doubt he will, but at least he's offering a referendum.
The EU and the eurozone are sustainable. Better out sooner rather than later.
'He’s articulate, tough, and like Sturgeon is from Glasgow. '
Sturgeon is from Irvine in Ayrshire, not Glasgow.
As Old Labour suggests (as with the misplaced infatuation with Darling), Murphy is right wingers & Southrons idea of a successful Scottish politician, Scots not so much.
Sturgeon isn't from Irvine, she's from Dreghorn. There is a big difference.
It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say he made the most notable ground moving speech of the last decade. Few politicians can make a difference without being in office. Gordon possibly single handedly did it with just one passionate speech. A speech which might have saved the union. There aren't many in the UK who can outperform Alex Salmond from a standing start but Brown did.
Underestimate him at your peril. The futures bright.The futures Brown
He may have made a difference but I was no fan of his speech. He sounded like a demagogue - that's why it was wise for his advisers not to encourage the 'passionate' Brown at the last election. Too many people find it scary. Or at least too many in England. Obama on the other hand is inspiring. Perhaps it works in Scotland as Nick Palmer says, but it only goes to show how much they're on a different wavelength to rUK.
'He’s articulate, tough, and like Sturgeon is from Glasgow. '
Sturgeon is from Irvine in Ayrshire, not Glasgow.
As Old Labour suggests (as with the misplaced infatuation with Darling), Murphy is right wingers & Southrons idea of a successful Scottish politician, Scots not so much.
Sturgeon isn't from Irvine, she's from Dreghorn. There is a big difference.
You a geography student Monica
I see that you corrected ThUD's incompetent pedantry earlier. There's something not quite right about that boy, is he a yank ?
Good point did they even have a vote for Sturgeon ?
She was the only candidate , so why would you waste a fortune asking people to vote. The SNP are not stupid.
No the RUK establishment are trying so hard to keep you in the UK.
The sense of grievance will never go away with so called devomax, it just prolongs the agony. I wanted you to get Independence.
I agree, it will just drag on for years now. Unless the great vow is implemented realistically close to what was promised it may be sooner rather than later. Personally I still cannot believe how stupid and pathetic Scottish people are that a majority can vote to be run by another country. Makes me wonder if we could actually run the country successfully with as many stupid people in it.
I wanted Independence for Scotland, but I put money on the No vote winning because I always thought the fear factor would win the day.
Even with the SNP trying to keep so many in the coalition for yes, by keeping the same head of state and currency, which I thought would need to change eventually for full Independence
I also want PR for England. Both will come about one day. A split on the right over in and out of Europe might assist.
'He’s articulate, tough, and like Sturgeon is from Glasgow. '
Sturgeon is from Irvine in Ayrshire, not Glasgow.
As Old Labour suggests (as with the misplaced infatuation with Darling), Murphy is right wingers & Southrons idea of a successful Scottish politician, Scots not so much.
Sturgeon isn't from Irvine, she's from Dreghorn. There is a big difference.
You a geography student Monica
I see that you corrected ThUD's incompetent pedantry earlier. There's something not quite right about that boy, is he a yank ?
He has an excuse I believe he is a central belt chappie, probably never travelled to the wilds of Ayrshire
People on the betting chain-letter, check your inbox.
What on earth is the betting chain letter, some sort of secret society where only a few are allowed in?
I put a couple of football bets and an X-Factor bet up this morning, if I'd known that not all bets are posted and some are kept secret I would not have bothered.
EdinT Indeed, but shows even if Cameron only gets a few changes we could still stay in, and Merkel is facing domestic pressures on immigration with the rising AfD vote
'He’s articulate, tough, and like Sturgeon is from Glasgow. '
Sturgeon is from Irvine in Ayrshire, not Glasgow.
As Old Labour suggests (as with the misplaced infatuation with Darling), Murphy is right wingers & Southrons idea of a successful Scottish politician, Scots not so much.
Sturgeon isn't from Irvine, she's from Dreghorn. There is a big difference.
Apart from being separated by 2 miles, what would you say are the big differences? Neither of them are Glasgow of course.
'He’s articulate, tough, and like Sturgeon is from Glasgow. '
Sturgeon is from Irvine in Ayrshire, not Glasgow.
As Old Labour suggests (as with the misplaced infatuation with Darling), Murphy is right wingers & Southrons idea of a successful Scottish politician, Scots not so much.
Sturgeon isn't from Irvine, she's from Dreghorn. There is a big difference.
You a geography student Monica
I see that you corrected ThUD's incompetent pedantry earlier. There's something not quite right about that boy, is he a yank ?
He has an excuse I believe he is a central belt chappie, probably never travelled to the wilds of Ayrshire
I have had a beer or 2 in Irvine, never tasted the fleshpots of Dreghorn though.
Caught the back end of a conversation on Sky News just now, two chaps discussing the eurozone. The suggestion (which seems hard to argue against) was that the eurozone would integrate far more and that the UK, in the EU but outside the eurozone, would eventually have to choose to leave the EU or join the eurozone.
If the EU offers Cameron nothing he should campaign to leave. I doubt he will, but at least he's offering a referendum.
The EU and the eurozone are sustainable. Better out sooner rather than later.
The whole closer integration of the Eurozone is why we need renegotiation. Movement of labour, well unrestricred movement of labour, can be justified where you have to all intents and purposes one country with a centralised tax tax policy backed up by the consequent political decisions. Good luck to the EU with that. As long as we are not in the Euro we will need to be different - but whether we stay in or are outside (presumably in the EEA) there will not be much real difference. We will continue to have our own currency and control of our financial services industry and if we have more control of our own borders that will be counteracted by probably more difficulties for individuals and businesses working in Europe.
Caught the back end of a conversation on Sky News just now, two chaps discussing the eurozone. The suggestion (which seems hard to argue against) was that the eurozone would integrate far more and that the UK, in the EU but outside the eurozone, would eventually have to choose to leave the EU or join the eurozone.
If the EU offers Cameron nothing he should campaign to leave. I doubt he will, but at least he's offering a referendum.
The EU and the eurozone are sustainable. Better out sooner rather than later.
Morris Dancer - I don't really see that Cameron has the choice; if there are no concessions his choice will be either to lead the "out "campaign from the front bench or participate in the "in" campaign from the wilderness - his party just will not stand for a leader campaigning for an endorsement of the status quo and he would be removed quickly; or alternatively lose his position by dint of mass defections. It is quite possible that Cameron will campaign to stay in on the basis of relatively modest concessions, but given that free movement of people has become the fault line, I think even that will be very difficult for him.
I also don't agree we are better out sooner rather than later. At some point Europe needs to grasp the nettle and decide on a new constitutional settlement , and Britain needs to consider then where it will stand. In other words the opportunity to leave will arise organically, at a time when Europe wants to move in a new direction and at a time when European leaders will recognise the UK is unlikely to want to be part of that journey. The transition to a looser arrangement can be managed sensibly. If Britain leaves unilaterally a generation (or two) of Europeans will be taught that "Europe" was built up from the ashes of the second world war by Germany, France and Benelux, and wrecked by the UK. European leaders will be under huge pressure from their electorates not to give the UK a comfortable exit.
Taking a longer-term view, the interests of the Eurosceptics are better served by patience. Trying to force the exit early is unlikely to result in an optimum settlement and runs a very high risk of defeat (Indyref redux) that fundamentally weakens the UK's position in Europe.
The European project is unsustainable and it will come to a natural end. The demographic deficit is its fatal flaw. Patience.
Most amusing to discover that TSE thinks that 'plebs' was a term of insult in Roman discussions.
When in fact the plebians were around 99% of the Roman citizens including at the end of the Republic Cicero, Cato, Crassus, Pompey, Brutus, Cassius, Antony and Octavian.
And I can assure everyone that in South Yorkshire an Establishment Tory lawyer who's father is a doctor, who went to boarding school and who lives in Dore is the epitome of posh.
No matter what accent he puts on.
No surprise to find TSE wrong on the classics again.
Here's an interesting article on the subject. Note especially the last paragraph.
No, give up. You were wrong last night because you don't know the Latin for "political party" or how noun-adjective agreement works where there is a choice on nouns to agree with. Showing off that you have access to Wikipedia doesn't get you out of the hole.
I'm afraid not.
Firstly, I didn't mention political parties precisely for the reason you give.
Secondly, in all my time studying Latin, I never saw a '/' used, so I was entitled to take Farage separately. TSE didn't use 'et' or '-que', otherwise he would have to have used 'sunt' instead of 'est'.
Mr. Flockers, the longer it takes the eurozone/EU to disintegrate the more tightly entangled the nation states will be, and the more resentment and bitterness will erupt when the festering edifice crumbles into the dust.
'He’s articulate, tough, and like Sturgeon is from Glasgow. '
Sturgeon is from Irvine in Ayrshire, not Glasgow.
As Old Labour suggests (as with the misplaced infatuation with Darling), Murphy is right wingers & Southrons idea of a successful Scottish politician, Scots not so much.
Sturgeon isn't from Irvine, she's from Dreghorn. There is a big difference.
Apart from being separated by 2 miles, what would you say are the big differences? Neither of them are Glasgow of course.
The sea, rural/urban, accents, that type of thing.
1. I think we are talking a matter of years, not decades, before fundamental reform is forced upon the EU.
2. It may well be the case that the tight entanglement of the Eurozone countries is problematic to unwind, but that is already the case. For the UK (and other non-eurozone member states), there's actually very little entanglement. We still have all the institutions we need, we'd just lose the overarching institutions and be left with a body of regulation we'd have to decide what to do with. There would still be a strong case for harmonisation and standardisation across a range of matters, to facilitate free trade.
Mr. Flockers, indeed but the EU moves by salami slicing where it can and is masterful at underhanded deceit. They won't try for a Constitution again in a hurry. It'll be a tidying up exercise here and there, and QMV means they won't need us on-side for many things.
The eurozone's heading from monetary union towards banking union, with fiscal union next on the menu. It may very well be horrendous when the whole thing finally collapses.
Caught the back end of a conversation on Sky News just now, two chaps discussing the eurozone. The suggestion (which seems hard to argue against) was that the eurozone would integrate far more and that the UK, in the EU but outside the eurozone, would eventually have to choose to leave the EU or join the eurozone.
If the EU offers Cameron nothing he should campaign to leave. I doubt he will, but at least he's offering a referendum.
The EU and the eurozone are sustainable. Better out sooner rather than later.
The whole closer integration of the Eurozone is why we need renegotiation. Movement of labour, well unrestricred movement of labour, can be justified where you have to all intents and purposes one country with a centralised tax tax policy backed up by the consequent political decisions. Good luck to the EU with that. As long as we are not in the Euro we will need to be different - but whether we stay in or are outside (presumably in the EEA) there will not be much real difference. We will continue to have our own currency and control of our financial services industry and if we have more control of our own borders that will be counteracted by probably more difficulties for individuals and businesses working in Europe.
The Spectator leader this week made a very interesting point, which I hadn't considered.
Essentially, while the eurozone cycle moves in unison, but the UK moves off-cycle then effectively we act as a safety valve for the Eurozone.
When there is recession in the EZ, the UK sucks in immigrants, reducing their domestic unemployment. When there is boom in the EZ, then immigrants return home as wages in EZ markets increase in relative terms.
Hence there current situation is absolutely in the EZ interest. It's not clear how it is in the UK interest. But it does mean that it will likely be harder to renegotiate meaningful reforms on this issue.
'He’s articulate, tough, and like Sturgeon is from Glasgow. '
Sturgeon is from Irvine in Ayrshire, not Glasgow.
As Old Labour suggests (as with the misplaced infatuation with Darling), Murphy is right wingers & Southrons idea of a successful Scottish politician, Scots not so much.
Sturgeon isn't from Irvine, she's from Dreghorn. There is a big difference.
You a geography student Monica
I see that you corrected ThUD's incompetent pedantry earlier. There's something not quite right about that boy, is he a yank ?
He has an excuse I believe he is a central belt chappie, probably never travelled to the wilds of Ayrshire
I have had a beer or 2 in Irvine, never tasted the fleshpots of Dreghorn though.
Small village where the pneumatic tyre was invented. My mother came from Dreghorn and grandparents are buried there. Locally big big difference if you say are you from Irvine. Dreghorn only has a few small pubs. Nice new Weatherspoons opened at shopping centre in Irvine just across from station. Excellent selection of beers. Otherwise not a lot in Irvine, much more in the "burgh of culture" , Kilwinning.
'He’s articulate, tough, and like Sturgeon is from Glasgow. '
Sturgeon is from Irvine in Ayrshire, not Glasgow.
As Old Labour suggests (as with the misplaced infatuation with Darling), Murphy is right wingers & Southrons idea of a successful Scottish politician, Scots not so much.
Sturgeon isn't from Irvine, she's from Dreghorn. There is a big difference.
Apart from being separated by 2 miles, what would you say are the big differences? Neither of them are Glasgow of course.
The sea, rural/urban, accents, that type of thing.
Mr. Flockers, indeed but the EU moves by salami slicing where it can and is masterful at underhanded deceit. They won't try for a Constitution again in a hurry. It'll be a tidying up exercise here and there, and QMV means they won't need us on-side for many things.
The eurozone's heading from monetary union towards banking union, with fiscal union next on the menu. It may very well be horrendous when the whole thing finally collapses.
I think the EU will find it very hard to introduce fiscal union, necessary though it is if the Eurozone is to be sustainable. It's a test of where the loyalties of the people of Europe lie and I think when the frites are down the French remain French, the Italians, Italian and, probably, the Germans, German.
People on the betting chain-letter, check your inbox.
What on earth is the betting chain letter, some sort of secret society where only a few are allowed in?
I put a couple of football bets and an X-Factor bet up this morning, if I'd known that not all bets are posted and some are kept secret I would not have bothered.
First rule of betting chain-letter club....never discuss betting chain-letter club....
Caught the back end of a conversation on Sky News just now, two chaps discussing the eurozone. The suggestion (which seems hard to argue against) was that the eurozone would integrate far more and that the UK, in the EU but outside the eurozone, would eventually have to choose to leave the EU or join the eurozone.
If the EU offers Cameron nothing he should campaign to leave. I doubt he will, but at least he's offering a referendum.
The EU and the eurozone are sustainable. Better out sooner rather than later.
The whole closer integration of the Eurozone is why we need renegotiation. Movement of labour, well unrestricred movement of labour, can be justified where you have to all intents and purposes one country with a centralised tax tax policy backed up by the consequent political decisions. Good luck to the EU with that. As long as we are not in the Euro we will need to be different - but whether we stay in or are outside (presumably in the EEA) there will not be much real difference. We will continue to have our own currency and control of our financial services industry and if we have more control of our own borders that will be counteracted by probably more difficulties for individuals and businesses working in Europe.
Free movement of labour is a fundamental principle of the EU. If you don't have it you're out.
The odd thing about Cameron's position is that as he keeps getting pushed along by the sceptics, he ends up promising an in/out referendum without an "in" option.
People on the betting chain-letter, check your inbox.
What on earth is the betting chain letter, some sort of secret society where only a few are allowed in?
I put a couple of football bets and an X-Factor bet up this morning, if I'd known that not all bets are posted and some are kept secret I would not have bothered.
First rule of betting chain-letter club....never discuss betting chain-letter club....
Have you set up a competitor to PB and are trying to do a reverse take over from Mike S?
Off topic. Advice needed! My lad is considering the University of West London for next year, and there's an open day next week. Any PBers from that London hellhole have any advice about parking/transport in Ealing, as the Uni website says it's very limited and will be very busy? We've looked at taking the train, but the cost is daylight robbery (nearly 600 quid for return for 3 of us!) Fecking London!
And the income from North Sea Oil contributed towards the massive restructuring that we needed to do to the economy in the 1980s. The Butskellite consensus of propping up failing industries with transfer payments had reached the end of the road
We now have an Osbrown consensus of propping up wealth consumption via government borrowing, zero interest rates and subsidised house prices.
With government borrowing over £100bn at the top of the economic cycle and a balance of payments deficit of over £90bn the end of that road is signaled.
No, we don't.
ZIRP is something I'd been keen for us to move away from as soon as possible. I and I think that within 12 months we will have done. On consumption, again, I'd agree, but given how attenuated our manufacturing base had become over the last 15-20 years it will take time to rebalance.
Subsidised house prices are, IMHO, a necessary evil. It will be a disaster if it becomes a long-term issue. However, at the moment because of the interplay of ZIRP, housing benefits and tax policy, the perceived stability of the UK political system and the relative liquidity of the housing market, housing as an asset class is ridiculously over-valued. That means you have three choices: (1) shrug and say, "I don't care that there is a generation of Brits who can't afford to buy their first home"; (2) take action to rapidly bring down house prices, shrug and say "I don't care about the write offs that the banks will have to take and the need to recapitalise them through government action"; or (3) take action to increase supply and property taxes and hope that prices will come down gradually but in the meantime provide a temporary support to allow people to people to aspire to own their own home.
In general, we agree on the objective, but I'm prepared to take longer to get there. Perhaps I value the shattered dreams and broken lives that your approach would entail rather higher than you do?
And how much longer are you prepared to take might I ask ?
During the Brown bubble wealth consumption increased faster than wealth creation, during the last recession wealth creation decreased more than wealth consumption and during the current economic cycle wealth consumption has again increased faster than wealth creation.
Do we see a pattern here ?
Now what happens when we get the next recession ? The government, of whatever makeup, will do everything it can to safeguard wealth consumption as that's popular and it will safeguard votes.
Meanwhile wealth creating sectors will again be left to fend for themselves.
Completely OT. The joys of overbearing socialist governance. A colleague has just posted me a picture from Norway of a Guinness mirror inside our old local The Irishman in Stavanger along with the following message:
"Here in Norway, Stavanger the local council has come up with the bright idea of banning alcohol advertising, fine, but this even stretches to the inside of a pub, so this is causing a few problems with my watering hole "The Irishman". As the picture shows they have to blank out any reference to drink, as it can encourage you to drink. I am, as no doubt you are, wondering just why I would be in an Irish bar on a Saturday night if I was confused over the decision to have a pint or not. You have to love Norway and the local councils , they really have nothing better to do than make up stupid rules to justify their jobs."
Anyone inside a pub in Norway must be minus an arm and a leg. The hooch business is I believe thriving.
I think that the EU members, including UK are often in too much of a hurry. We’d barely got the Parliament up and running when off we went to the Eurozone.
'He’s articulate, tough, and like Sturgeon is from Glasgow. '
Sturgeon is from Irvine in Ayrshire, not Glasgow.
As Old Labour suggests (as with the misplaced infatuation with Darling), Murphy is right wingers & Southrons idea of a successful Scottish politician, Scots not so much.
Sturgeon isn't from Irvine, she's from Dreghorn. There is a big difference.
You a geography student Monica
I see that you corrected ThUD's incompetent pedantry earlier. There's something not quite right about that boy, is he a yank ?
He has an excuse I believe he is a central belt chappie, probably never travelled to the wilds of Ayrshire
I have had a beer or 2 in Irvine, never tasted the fleshpots of Dreghorn though.
Small village where the pneumatic tyre was invented. My mother came from Dreghorn and grandparents are buried there. Locally big big difference if you say are you from Irvine. Dreghorn only has a few small pubs. Nice new Weatherspoons opened at shopping centre in Irvine just across from station. Excellent selection of beers. Otherwise not a lot in Irvine, much more in the "burgh of culture" , Kilwinning.
"Poor Orpheus! He felt like some old town Of Carrick in decline: Maybole, or Girvan, The pubs shut down, the kids, taunting 'the clown Who couldna face the front', on drugs from Irvine; While dismal in the twilight of surviving Alone with his shopping, sore to be rid of her, He walks the roads of home a widower.'
Off topic. Advice needed! My lad is considering the University of West London for next year, and there's an open day next week. Any PBers from that London hellhole have any advice about parking/transport in Ealing, as the Uni website says it's very limited and will be very busy? We've looked at taking the train, but the cost is daylight robbery (nearly 600 quid for return for 3 of us!) Fecking London!
Drive down to a nearer station, then take the train in?
People on the betting chain-letter, check your inbox.
What on earth is the betting chain letter, some sort of secret society where only a few are allowed in?
I put a couple of football bets and an X-Factor bet up this morning, if I'd known that not all bets are posted and some are kept secret I would not have bothered.
First rule of betting chain-letter club....never discuss betting chain-letter club....
Have you set up a competitor to PB and are trying to do a reverse take over from Mike S?
Is there a secret handshake when you all meet at Dirty Dicks?
Most amusing to discover that TSE thinks that 'plebs' was a term of insult in Roman discussions.
When in fact the plebians were around 99% of the Roman citizens including at the end of the Republic Cicero, Cato, Crassus, Pompey, Brutus, Cassius, Antony and Octavian.
And I can assure everyone that in South Yorkshire an Establishment Tory lawyer who's father is a doctor, who went to boarding school and who lives in Dore is the epitome of posh.
No matter what accent he puts on.
That falls flat on its arse like all the other wannabe erudite attacks on TSE's Latinity which rather puzzlingly litter the site at the moment. He said it in English, in which it's an insult.
Whatever context TSE said the word 'plebs' in he makes himself look foolish.
If its in the Roman sense its an admission than he doesn't realise that he would himself be a pleb.
If its the English sense then its an admission that he is indeed posh despite his attempt to claim otherwise.
Now there's nothing wrong with TSE being posh - he didn't chose his birth and upbringing and there's nothing wrong with being posh in any case.
But its interesting that he tries to deny it and I do hope that he doesn't speak in some Yorkshire equivalent of a Mockney accent.
Off topic. Advice needed! My lad is considering the University of West London for next year, and there's an open day next week. Any PBers from that London hellhole have any advice about parking/transport in Ealing, as the Uni website says it's very limited and will be very busy? We've looked at taking the train, but the cost is daylight robbery (nearly 600 quid for return for 3 of us!) Fecking London!
I've never used it, but there is a website where people rent out their driveways.
- all Westminster parties need to recognise that Scottish politics is at least one degree to the left of UK politics, and respond accordingly.
Trouble is that's not actually true. On average Scots are slightly more small-c conservative than the English on many issues - but a given level of conservatism translates into a more left-wing tick on the voting slip. The self-image is that they're more left wing but it's not actually true. One of the fascinating things about Scottish politics at the moment is the way the old tribal loyalties have been thrown up in the air by the indyref (in fact Holyrood 2011 was the real turning point, as even Labour tribals could see that they were useless) - be interesting to see how the other parties can capture that small-c conservatism.
@Mike Smithson - how many other seats are there where SNP is within 20% or so of Labour? The collapse of the LD vote means there will be other seats up for grabs in a world where the Nats and Labour have effectively swapped places in the polling.
Caught the back end of a conversation on Sky News just now, two chaps discussing the eurozone. The suggestion (which seems hard to argue against) was that the eurozone would integrate far more and that the UK, in the EU but outside the eurozone, would eventually have to choose to leave the EU or join the eurozone.
If the EU offers Cameron nothing he should campaign to leave. I doubt he will, but at least he's offering a referendum.
The EU and the eurozone are sustainable. Better out sooner rather than later.
The whole closer integration of the Eurozone is why we need renegotiation. Movement of labour, well unrestricred movement of labour, can be justified where you have to all intents and purposes one country with a centralised tax tax policy backed up by the consequent political decisions. Good luck to the EU with that. As long as we are not in the Euro we will need to be different - but whether we stay in or are outside (presumably in the EEA) there will not be much real difference. We will continue to have our own currency and control of our financial services industry and if we have more control of our own borders that will be counteracted by probably more difficulties for individuals and businesses working in Europe.
Free movement of labour is a fundamental principle of the EU. If you don't have it you're out.
The odd thing about Cameron's position is that as he keeps getting pushed along by the sceptics, he ends up promising an in/out referendum without an "in" option.
Which EU? The past the present or the future? The notion that it can be unrestricted when we are not in the Euro and the Eiurozone are coming togetherin ever closer union is a perfectly valid argument. Free movement can be very advantagious. Hundreds of thousands of brits live and work in Europe. Despite the howls most of us benefit. The ones who do not are the ones stuck on benefits. Why do they not take the available jobs. Given the hundreds of thousands of jobs created, just who would otherwise have filled them? Would you employ some of the workshy ill-educated people we see scrouging on benefits?
Off topic. Advice needed! My lad is considering the University of West London for next year, and there's an open day next week. Any PBers from that London hellhole have any advice about parking/transport in Ealing, as the Uni website says it's very limited and will be very busy? We've looked at taking the train, but the cost is daylight robbery (nearly 600 quid for return for 3 of us!) Fecking London!
There is usually parking available in Ealing Broadway shopping centre. Don't know how close that is to the campus though.
Off topic. Advice needed! My lad is considering the University of West London for next year, and there's an open day next week. Any PBers from that London hellhole have any advice about parking/transport in Ealing, as the Uni website says it's very limited and will be very busy? We've looked at taking the train, but the cost is daylight robbery (nearly 600 quid for return for 3 of us!) Fecking London!
There's a multi-storey carpark at the Ealing Broadway shopping centre (c. 10 mins walk from UWL). It's busy at weekends, but there's always spaces on Level 7 at the top, and it's quite cheap (£2.50 for 3 hours). It's quite straightforward to find if you come off at junction 2 of the M4.
His ego would never allow him to do that unless he gets guaranteed lots and lots of money.
Well, he would get a payoff (and his gold-plated pension) for leaving Westminster, plus another salary (and gold-plated pension) if he stood in Holyrood, or he could collect both at the same time, then he could leave that and stand for Westminster again.
People on the betting chain-letter, check your inbox.
What on earth is the betting chain letter, some sort of secret society where only a few are allowed in?
I put a couple of football bets and an X-Factor bet up this morning, if I'd known that not all bets are posted and some are kept secret I would not have bothered.
First rule of betting chain-letter club....never discuss betting chain-letter club....
Have you set up a competitor to PB and are trying to do a reverse take over from Mike S?
Is there a secret handshake when you all meet at Dirty Dicks?
It's almost a rival to the Freemasons! (I'll be there!)
Comments
ZIRP is something I'd been keen for us to move away from as soon as possible. I and I think that within 12 months we will have done. On consumption, again, I'd agree, but given how attenuated our manufacturing base had become over the last 15-20 years it will take time to rebalance.
Subsidised house prices are, IMHO, a necessary evil. It will be a disaster if it becomes a long-term issue. However, at the moment because of the interplay of ZIRP, housing benefits and tax policy, the perceived stability of the UK political system and the relative liquidity of the housing market, housing as an asset class is ridiculously over-valued. That means you have three choices: (1) shrug and say, "I don't care that there is a generation of Brits who can't afford to buy their first home"; (2) take action to rapidly bring down house prices, shrug and say "I don't care about the write offs that the banks will have to take and the need to recapitalise them through government action"; or (3) take action to increase supply and property taxes and hope that prices will come down gradually but in the meantime provide a temporary support to allow people to people to aspire to own their own home.
In general, we agree on the objective, but I'm prepared to take longer to get there. Perhaps I value the shattered dreams and broken lives that your approach would entail rather higher than you do?
For FM it is all MSP's who vote who will be FM and that vote will take place in next few weeks.
http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/10/scott-kelly-the-rise-of-constituents-and-the-fall-of-the-whips.html
The conservatives' twisting and turning on this issue really is a thing to behold.
Good point did they even have a vote for Sturgeon within the SNP ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-29756051
"Child abuse in Rotherham was raised "at the highest level" as far back as 2002 but officials apparently pressured a researcher to change her report."
Will also be on BBC Sunday Politics this morning.
Latest Rochester And Strood By-Election Winning Party Best Odds @Oddschecker | #Politics #Betting http://ln.is/www.oddschecker.com/aDdYq …
Odds shorten on a #UKIP win in South Yorkshire PCC election.
https://m.oddschecker.com/m/politics/british-politics/south-yorkshire-police-and-crime-commissioner …
"Here in Norway, Stavanger the local council has come up with the bright idea of banning alcohol advertising, fine, but this even stretches to the inside of a pub, so this is causing a few problems with my watering hole "The Irishman". As the picture shows they have to blank out any reference to drink, as it can encourage you to drink. I am, as no doubt you are, wondering just why I would be in an Irish bar on a Saturday night if I was confused over the decision to have a pint or not. You have to love Norway and the local councils , they really have nothing better to do than make up stupid rules to justify their jobs."
In almost all policy areas - infrastructure, energy, constitutional reform, education, welfare, pensions, health and social care - the current political class lack the courage to make the decisions necessary in the face of popular opposition. The Conservatives and to a lesser extent the Liberal Democrats have at least started to address some of these issues, but tentatively and with little conviction.
"The researcher added in her report: "The minutes of those meetings showed that I had apparently agreed to certain conditions regarding the disclosure of the data....I had not attended any such meetings, in fact the date of one of the meetings that I had supposedly attended was when I was overseas on annual leave."
There is an old allegation of lost files, but now a hint that evidence is fabricated. Someone is taking someone else for a walk.
Basle III also appears to be coming to the UK via the EU.
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/About/What/International/basel/index.shtml
The election labour would ban.
The sense of grievance will never go away with so called devomax, it just prolongs the agony.
I wanted you to get Independence.
(I think I came across this in the 'unintended consequences' novel.)
Sturgeon is from Irvine in Ayrshire, not Glasgow.
As Old Labour suggests (as with the misplaced infatuation with Darling), Murphy is right wingers & Southrons idea of a successful Scottish politician, Scots not so much.
- Labour have started to talk more about localism recently; this will be a big test of the party's commitment to that principle
- all Westminster parties need to recognise that Scottish politics is at least one degree to the left of UK politics, and respond accordingly. The issue is most acute for Labour, who need to try to maintain broad appeal in the UK while still representing the left in Scotland. Loosening the ties and giving Scottish Labour greater independence to run its own affairs and take its own positions would help Labour manage that tension (as long as the rUK and Scottish Labour parties still subscribe to some common principles). It is also vital if Labour is to avoid a calamity in Scotland against a strong and motivated SNP
- Holyrood is going to become increasingly important as more powers are delegated to it; it's extraordinary for Moniker to claim otherwise. There is no reason to think Sturgeon will fail - she performed very well in the heat of the referendum, has had a long apprenticeship and has been a key part of a successful administration. She was appointed by universal acclamation and has the support of a growing party membership. I can see challenges ahead, particularly if (as surely he will) Alex Salmond remains involved in frontline politics and particularly if the other parties spike the SNP's guns by delivering extensive further powers, as promised. But there's no particular reason to think she will fail
- I thought Jim Murphy was very impressive in the referendum campaign and am not surprised to see him touted for the role. I find it much harder to believe Gordon would do it - it's hard for any PM to come back into a lesser role these days, and there is a huge question mark over Gordon's appetite for a contested election, or for taking on the leadership role with with two heavy defeats (not of his making) looming over the horizon. Not surprised he has apparently ruled himself out.
"Wouldn't having an MP (rather than MSP) simply reinforce Lamont's comments about Labour and Miliband? "
That would certainly be the justifiable SNP line of attack, but I don't believe it outweighs the advantages to Labour of having their most effective active Scottish politician as the leader of the British Labour Party in Scotland in the lead up to the 2015 GE.
On the assumption that it will be beneath Brown's dignity to even pretend he would seek to enter Holyrood, the lifelong politician Murphy (apparently 9 years at Strathclyde University engaging in politics, never graduated) is likely to be the choice.
The scenario I am inclined to envisage is this: Murphy commits to entering Holyrood at the 2016 election, not before (the precedent for such an approach being provided by no less a person than Salmond). I would recommend Malcolm Chisholm MSP as the Labour voice at FM questions but I doubt that will ever happen. If it is Kezia Dugdale, Sturgeon will eat her alive.
If the SNP are successfully resisted in the 2015 GE but Labour lose the GE, Murphy is a more serious candidate for UK leadership. He also has the then more attractive option of aiming for First Minister in 2016.
If Labour win the 2015 GE, there is nothing to prevent Murphy accepting a more senior cabinet role with a view to a future shot at PM, and never standing for Holyrood at all-an excuse can always be found.
Do I like and admire Jim Murphy?-not in the slightest, and I hope that his shortcomings will be exposed by the vigilance of the MSM (joke!). I do, however, recognise his political effectiveness to date, and enjoyed betting on him to hold his East Renfrewshire seat at GE 2010 (he did-massively increased majority) when one or two on here seriously thought the Tories might take the seat.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2808123/Merkel-scuppers-PM-s-plans-new-deal-EU-German-Chancellor-says-not-support-Cameron-s-proposed-migration-reforms.html
Will he be willing and able to stand up to the force as well as the council? Is he too much of an insider to reliably hold the police to account?
On the other hand, he also worked in victim support for two years.
TUD, she is really from Dreghorn if we are being pedantic and local.
People on the betting chain-letter, check your inbox.
There once was a pb poster who used to pollute this site with "PB Tories never learn" etc etc.
What is to be said about Labour MPs? At the last GE they had a Leader with terrible ratings and yet they let him lead them to a net loss of 91 seats.
At this GE they have another Leader with terrible ratings and yet they do nothing as they lead them to ....... er "they hope a net gain of 70+ seats"!
Or a gain of 85+ English & Welsh seats if they lose a net 15 in Scotland.
And the Conservative candidate seems to be saying that S Yorks police are doing a good job!
If the EU offers Cameron nothing he should campaign to leave. I doubt he will, but at least he's offering a referendum.
The EU and the eurozone are sustainable. Better out sooner rather than later.
Even with the SNP trying to keep so many in the coalition for yes, by keeping the same head of state and currency, which I thought would need to change eventually for full Independence
I also want PR for England.
Both will come about one day.
A split on the right over in and out of Europe might assist.
I put a couple of football bets and an X-Factor bet up this morning, if I'd known that not all bets are posted and some are kept secret I would not have bothered.
http://www.eba.europa.eu/documents/10180/669262/2014+EU-wide+ST-aggregate+results.pdf
I also don't agree we are better out sooner rather than later. At some point Europe needs to grasp the nettle and decide on a new constitutional settlement , and Britain needs to consider then where it will stand. In other words the opportunity to leave will arise organically, at a time when Europe wants to move in a new direction and at a time when European leaders will recognise the UK is unlikely to want to be part of that journey. The transition to a looser arrangement can be managed sensibly. If Britain leaves unilaterally a generation (or two) of Europeans will be taught that "Europe" was built up from the ashes of the second world war by Germany, France and Benelux, and wrecked by the UK. European leaders will be under huge pressure from their electorates not to give the UK a comfortable exit.
Taking a longer-term view, the interests of the Eurosceptics are better served by patience. Trying to force the exit early is unlikely to result in an optimum settlement and runs a very high risk of defeat (Indyref redux) that fundamentally weakens the UK's position in Europe.
The European project is unsustainable and it will come to a natural end. The demographic deficit is its fatal flaw. Patience.
Firstly, I didn't mention political parties precisely for the reason you give.
Secondly, in all my time studying Latin, I never saw a '/' used, so I was entitled to take Farage separately. TSE didn't use 'et' or '-que', otherwise he would have to have used 'sunt' instead of 'est'.
1. I think we are talking a matter of years, not decades, before fundamental reform is forced upon the EU.
2. It may well be the case that the tight entanglement of the Eurozone countries is problematic to unwind, but that is already the case. For the UK (and other non-eurozone member states), there's actually very little entanglement. We still have all the institutions we need, we'd just lose the overarching institutions and be left with a body of regulation we'd have to decide what to do with. There would still be a strong case for harmonisation and standardisation across a range of matters, to facilitate free trade.
The eurozone's heading from monetary union towards banking union, with fiscal union next on the menu. It may very well be horrendous when the whole thing finally collapses.
Essentially, while the eurozone cycle moves in unison, but the UK moves off-cycle then effectively we act as a safety valve for the Eurozone.
When there is recession in the EZ, the UK sucks in immigrants, reducing their domestic unemployment. When there is boom in the EZ, then immigrants return home as wages in EZ markets increase in relative terms.
Hence there current situation is absolutely in the EZ interest. It's not clear how it is in the UK interest. But it does mean that it will likely be harder to renegotiate meaningful reforms on this issue.
Dreghorn only has a few small pubs.
Nice new Weatherspoons opened at shopping centre in Irvine just across from station. Excellent selection of beers. Otherwise not a lot in Irvine, much more in the "burgh of culture" , Kilwinning.
The odd thing about Cameron's position is that as he keeps getting pushed along by the sceptics, he ends up promising an in/out referendum without an "in" option.
Advice needed!
My lad is considering the University of West London for next year, and there's an open day next week.
Any PBers from that London hellhole have any advice about parking/transport in Ealing, as the Uni website says it's very limited and will be very busy?
We've looked at taking the train, but the cost is daylight robbery (nearly 600 quid for return for 3 of us!)
Fecking London!
During the Brown bubble wealth consumption increased faster than wealth creation, during the last recession wealth creation decreased more than wealth consumption and during the current economic cycle wealth consumption has again increased faster than wealth creation.
Do we see a pattern here ?
Now what happens when we get the next recession ? The government, of whatever makeup, will do everything it can to safeguard wealth consumption as that's popular and it will safeguard votes.
Meanwhile wealth creating sectors will again be left to fend for themselves.
There is no interest in rebalancing the economy.
The hooch business is I believe thriving.
I need a funbet for this afternoon's American football (Channel 4, soon). Time is of the essence.
Merci beaucoup
"Poor Orpheus! He felt like some old town
Of Carrick in decline: Maybole, or Girvan,
The pubs shut down, the kids, taunting 'the clown
Who couldna face the front', on drugs from Irvine;
While dismal in the twilight of surviving
Alone with his shopping, sore to be rid of her,
He walks the roads of home a widower.'
- from 'The Ayrshire Orpheus', which appears in Mick Imlah's collection The Lost Leader (pertinent to Scottish Labour right now...)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Leader-Mick-Imlah/dp/057124307X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414327461&sr=1-3&keywords=mick+imlah
Drive down to a nearer station, then take the train in?
If its in the Roman sense its an admission than he doesn't realise that he would himself be a pleb.
If its the English sense then its an admission that he is indeed posh despite his attempt to claim otherwise.
Now there's nothing wrong with TSE being posh - he didn't chose his birth and upbringing and there's nothing wrong with being posh in any case.
But its interesting that he tries to deny it and I do hope that he doesn't speak in some Yorkshire equivalent of a Mockney accent.
https://www.justpark.com/about/
@Mike Smithson - how many other seats are there where SNP is within 20% or so of Labour? The collapse of the LD vote means there will be other seats up for grabs in a world where the Nats and Labour have effectively swapped places in the polling.
Given the hundreds of thousands of jobs created, just who would otherwise have filled them? Would you employ some of the workshy ill-educated people we see scrouging on benefits?
Nah, nobody would be that greedy...
@montie: Ed Miliband's ratings fall close to lowest ever level via @YouGov http://t.co/Lt2FNSLLXx