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  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    isam said:

    Polish MEP joins UKIP group in Brussels...

    What's the opposite of a collapse?

    Prolapse?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    King Cole, smallpox hasn't been extirpated. It exists in two labs, one Russian, one America. The official line for retaining the virus is to 'develop a better way of fighting it'. Not hard to spot the logical flaw there...

    Glad about that; didn’t want it to join the Dodo.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    isam said:

    Polish MEP joins UKIP group in Brussels...

    What's the opposite of a collapse?

    Explode? Puff up? Your turn!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    edited October 2014
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    taffys said:

    No wonder there are rumours that ISIS are now getting horribly mauled in Kobane.

    Just seen Turkey saying it is allowing the Kurds to reinforce Kobane with Iraqi Kurdish fighters.

    Counter attack??

    Also the US successfully air-dropped weapons, food and medicines to the Kobane Kurds last night.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11173564/US-airdrops-arms-to-Kurds-in-Syrian-town-of-Kobane.html

    The city is still seriously threatened, but it now stands a chance of survival. If ISIS fail to take it, despite throwing thousands of men into the battle and losing some of their top commanders (along with tons of weaponry) it will be their first major setback.

    Viva Kobane.

    Who was it suggested giving ISIS an attractive target then annihilating them when they try and take it?

    Seems the US thought it a good idea.

    It was actually a bunch of us who came up with the idea, here on pb, about three months ago.

    So we can add Barack Obama and CENTCOM to the famous readers of this website....
    If they were following your advice, the Yanks would be running about in a blind panic, whilst waving their hands in the air and shrieking "We're all doomed!"
    If they'd taken the advice of many other pb-ers, such as yourself - do nothing! stop bombing! generally wave a fist at Saudi Arabia! - everyone in Kobane would now be dead.
    If they'd taken MY advice, the insurrection in Syria would have been mopped up two years ago, hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved, there would be no ISIS, no Nusrah Front, and the streets of Aleppo would be safe.

    If they take my advice NOW, which is to stop trying to unseat Assad whilst professing to want to defeat ISIS, and arm and support Assad to get rid of ISIS, the crisis would be over much faster than with your remedy. So as far as I can see, you're the one calling for the suffering to be prolonged, not me.
  • MikeK said:

    isam said:

    Polish MEP joins UKIP group in Brussels...

    What's the opposite of a collapse?

    Explode? Puff up? Your turn!
    Boom!
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322


    If they'd taken MY advice, the insurrection in Syria would have been mopped up two years ago, hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved, there would be no ISIS, no Nusrah Front, and the streets of Aleppo would be safe.

    If they take my advice NOW, which is to stop trying to unseat Assad whilst professing to want to defeat ISIS, and arm and support Assad to get rid of ISIS, the crisis would be over much faster than with your remedy. So as far as I can see, you're the one calling for the suffering to be prolonged, not me.

    If we'd have backed Assad while he was exercising extreme butchery towards unarmed protesters, or conducting ethnic cleansing to get rid of Sunnis between the Alawite strip and Damascus, we'd have become hated by the entire Sunni world. It would have Al-Qaeda's bloody sunday in terms of recruitment.
  • Socrates said:


    If they'd taken MY advice, the insurrection in Syria would have been mopped up two years ago, hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved, there would be no ISIS, no Nusrah Front, and the streets of Aleppo would be safe.

    If they take my advice NOW, which is to stop trying to unseat Assad whilst professing to want to defeat ISIS, and arm and support Assad to get rid of ISIS, the crisis would be over much faster than with your remedy. So as far as I can see, you're the one calling for the suffering to be prolonged, not me.

    If we'd have backed Assad while he was exercising extreme butchery towards unarmed protesters, or conducting ethnic cleansing to get rid of Sunnis between the Alawite strip and Damascus, we'd have become hated by the entire Sunni world. It would have Al-Qaeda's bloody sunday in terms of recruitment.
    Would you prefer a western-trained Ophthalmologist or a western-trained Jihadist to run Syria?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Possibly interesting strategic developments in Germany. Thueringen seems about to elect a Left (ex-Communist) State leader with Social Democrat/Green support; in return for this, the Left leaders in the state had to agree to say that the former GDR was a society based on illegality (the German word Unrechtsstaat is slightly ambiguous, but it's basically rude). This is being interpreted as a trial run for a possible future Social Democrat led Red-Red-Green option nationally, which is slightly more possible, perhaps as a minority government, as the CDU have flatly ruled out any cooperation with the UKIP-like AfD.

    It's all very tentative and may come unstuck (the alliance has a majority of 1), but may have significant medium-term implications.

    It's pretty amazing that the SDP are more willing to work with ex-communists than the CDU are with the mildly europhile AfD. I guess it shows how the arrogance and entitlement of the centre-right isn't restricted to the UK.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    isam said:

    Polish MEP joins UKIP group in Brussels...

    What's the opposite of a collapse?

    A payoff ?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:


    If they'd taken MY advice, the insurrection in Syria would have been mopped up two years ago, hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved, there would be no ISIS, no Nusrah Front, and the streets of Aleppo would be safe.

    If they take my advice NOW, which is to stop trying to unseat Assad whilst professing to want to defeat ISIS, and arm and support Assad to get rid of ISIS, the crisis would be over much faster than with your remedy. So as far as I can see, you're the one calling for the suffering to be prolonged, not me.

    If we'd have backed Assad while he was exercising extreme butchery towards unarmed protesters, or conducting ethnic cleansing to get rid of Sunnis between the Alawite strip and Damascus, we'd have become hated by the entire Sunni world. It would have Al-Qaeda's bloody sunday in terms of recruitment.
    Would you prefer a western-trained Ophthalmologist or a western-trained Jihadist to run Syria?
    I'd prefer a Western-trained non-jihadist Sunni who was notionally committed to democracy.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    It would have Al-Qaeda's bloody sunday in terms of recruitment.

    Backing the kurds will probably have its price in due course.

    Neither Turkey nor the Baghdad shia government wants to see them prosper. Both those are slowing the supply of arms to a trickle.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    MikeK said:

    Help UKIP Get To Number One!

    Our celebrity member Mike Read, the former Radio 1 DJ, has written a brand new single especially for UKIP and we need your help to get it to the top of the pop charts.

    First performed to great acclaim at our Party Conference in Doncaster, UKIP Calypso by The Independents needs to sell just 22,000 downloads to make it into the Top 30, or 28,000 to get into the Top 10.

    I think party supporters of all non purple parties should get this Jim Davidson's chalky slice of Vanilla Ice - in da hood - pretty fly for a white guy nonsense to a wider audience.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932
    Socrates said:

    Possibly interesting strategic developments in Germany. Thueringen seems about to elect a Left (ex-Communist) State leader with Social Democrat/Green support; in return for this, the Left leaders in the state had to agree to say that the former GDR was a society based on illegality (the German word Unrechtsstaat is slightly ambiguous, but it's basically rude). This is being interpreted as a trial run for a possible future Social Democrat led Red-Red-Green option nationally, which is slightly more possible, perhaps as a minority government, as the CDU have flatly ruled out any cooperation with the UKIP-like AfD.

    It's all very tentative and may come unstuck (the alliance has a majority of 1), but may have significant medium-term implications.

    It's pretty amazing that the SDP are more willing to work with ex-communists than the CDU are with the mildly europhile AfD. I guess it shows how the arrogance and entitlement of the centre-right isn't restricted to the UK.
    I'm a bit rusty on German politics, but that really confused me.
    I thought SPD vaguely = Labour
    CDU/CSU vaguely = Tories
    FDP vaguely = LibDems
    and AfD vaguely = UKIP

    Could you enlighten.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited October 2014
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    taffys said:

    No wonder there are rumours that ISIS are now getting horribly mauled in Kobane.

    Just seen Turkey saying it is allowing the Kurds to reinforce Kobane with Iraqi Kurdish fighters.

    Counter attack??

    Also the US successfully air-dropped weapons, food and medicines to the Kobane Kurds last night.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11173564/US-airdrops-arms-to-Kurds-in-Syrian-town-of-Kobane.html

    The city is still seriously threatened, but it now stands a chance of survival. If ISIS fail to take it, despite throwing thousands of men into the battle and losing some of their top commanders (along with tons of weaponry) it will be their first major setback.

    Viva Kobane.

    Who was it suggested giving ISIS an attractive target then annihilating them when they try and take it?

    Seems the US thought it a good idea.

    It was actually a bunch of us who came up with the idea, here on pb, about three months ago.

    So we can add Barack Obama and CENTCOM to the famous readers of this website....
    If they were following your advice, the Yanks would be running about in a blind panic, whilst waving their hands in the air and shrieking "We're all doomed!"
    If they'd taken the advice of many other pb-ers, such as yourself - do nothing! stop bombing! generally wave a fist at Saudi Arabia! - everyone in Kobane would now be dead.
    I've never posted any such advice here. My head isn't as big as yours,
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    It just shows that the crimes of the left are more easily excused and forgotten. Does anyone really think the successors of the National Socialists would be allowed anywhere near power.

    Of course, the crimes of the left were merely a footnote of history because the dream was so joyous and beautiful.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721

    Socrates said:

    Possibly interesting strategic developments in Germany. Thueringen seems about to elect a Left (ex-Communist) State leader with Social Democrat/Green support; in return for this, the Left leaders in the state had to agree to say that the former GDR was a society based on illegality (the German word Unrechtsstaat is slightly ambiguous, but it's basically rude). This is being interpreted as a trial run for a possible future Social Democrat led Red-Red-Green option nationally, which is slightly more possible, perhaps as a minority government, as the CDU have flatly ruled out any cooperation with the UKIP-like AfD.

    It's all very tentative and may come unstuck (the alliance has a majority of 1), but may have significant medium-term implications.

    It's pretty amazing that the SDP are more willing to work with ex-communists than the CDU are with the mildly europhile AfD. I guess it shows how the arrogance and entitlement of the centre-right isn't restricted to the UK.
    I'm a bit rusty on German politics, but that really confused me.
    I thought SPD vaguely = Labour
    CDU/CSU vaguely = Tories
    FDP vaguely = LibDems
    and AfD vaguely = UKIP

    Could you enlighten.
    I´d say the FDP were more like the Orange Bookers. The CSU being to the right of the CDU.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Socrates said:


    If they'd taken MY advice, the insurrection in Syria would have been mopped up two years ago, hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved, there would be no ISIS, no Nusrah Front, and the streets of Aleppo would be safe.

    If they take my advice NOW, which is to stop trying to unseat Assad whilst professing to want to defeat ISIS, and arm and support Assad to get rid of ISIS, the crisis would be over much faster than with your remedy. So as far as I can see, you're the one calling for the suffering to be prolonged, not me.

    If we'd have backed Assad while he was exercising extreme butchery towards unarmed protesters, or conducting ethnic cleansing to get rid of Sunnis between the Alawite strip and Damascus, we'd have become hated by the entire Sunni world. It would have Al-Qaeda's bloody sunday in terms of recruitment.
    Bloody Sunday - but we would be the Norwegians.

    Was the world that bad with Saddam and Assad in power ?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Possibly interesting strategic developments in Germany. Thueringen seems about to elect a Left (ex-Communist) State leader with Social Democrat/Green support; in return for this, the Left leaders in the state had to agree to say that the former GDR was a society based on illegality (the German word Unrechtsstaat is slightly ambiguous, but it's basically rude). This is being interpreted as a trial run for a possible future Social Democrat led Red-Red-Green option nationally, which is slightly more possible, perhaps as a minority government, as the CDU have flatly ruled out any cooperation with the UKIP-like AfD.

    It's all very tentative and may come unstuck (the alliance has a majority of 1), but may have significant medium-term implications.

    It's pretty amazing that the SDP are more willing to work with ex-communists than the CDU are with the mildly europhile AfD. I guess it shows how the arrogance and entitlement of the centre-right isn't restricted to the UK.
    I'm a bit rusty on German politics, but that really confused me.
    I thought SPD vaguely = Labour
    CDU/CSU vaguely = Tories
    FDP vaguely = LibDems
    and AfD vaguely = UKIP

    Could you enlighten.
    SPD = Labour less the union influence
    CDU = Ken Clarke Tories
    FDP = Orange Bookers
    AfD = Middle of the road Tories

    AfD want to leave the Eurozone but stay in the EU. They are in the same party grouping as the Tories.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Mr. Floater, here's my UK Amazon page:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thaddeus-White/e/B008C6RU98/

    Edited extra bit: if you're into fantasy generally then all of them will be delightful, but if you're not that into it I'd suggest giving Sir Edric's Temple a try first. Very easy to get into, minimal lore/backstory, and quite a lot of taking the piss out of fantasy stereotypes, men, women, rich bastards, poor people etc. It's an equal opportunities smorgasbord of mockery.

    Thanks MD.

    I enjoy fantasy as much as any other red bloodied male :-)

    I went for your recommendation plus Bane of Souls.

    E books give those of us that love to read many new authors to try out, and whilst I have picked up the odd (free) dud along the way I have found some very enjoyable non established authors.

    More power to all of your elbows!
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    TGOHF said:

    MikeK said:

    Help UKIP Get To Number One!

    Our celebrity member Mike Read, the former Radio 1 DJ, has written a brand new single especially for UKIP and we need your help to get it to the top of the pop charts.

    First performed to great acclaim at our Party Conference in Doncaster, UKIP Calypso by The Independents needs to sell just 22,000 downloads to make it into the Top 30, or 28,000 to get into the Top 10.

    I think party supporters of all non purple parties should get this Jim Davidson's chalky slice of Vanilla Ice - in da hood - pretty fly for a white guy nonsense to a wider audience.
    Dire 70's throw back stuff. Does Read 'black up' to perform it?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932
    Itajai said:

    Socrates said:

    Possibly interesting strategic developments in Germany. Thueringen seems about to elect a Left (ex-Communist) State leader with Social Democrat/Green support; in return for this, the Left leaders in the state had to agree to say that the former GDR was a society based on illegality (the German word Unrechtsstaat is slightly ambiguous, but it's basically rude). This is being interpreted as a trial run for a possible future Social Democrat led Red-Red-Green option nationally, which is slightly more possible, perhaps as a minority government, as the CDU have flatly ruled out any cooperation with the UKIP-like AfD.

    It's all very tentative and may come unstuck (the alliance has a majority of 1), but may have significant medium-term implications.

    It's pretty amazing that the SDP are more willing to work with ex-communists than the CDU are with the mildly europhile AfD. I guess it shows how the arrogance and entitlement of the centre-right isn't restricted to the UK.
    I'm a bit rusty on German politics, but that really confused me.
    I thought SPD vaguely = Labour
    CDU/CSU vaguely = Tories
    FDP vaguely = LibDems
    and AfD vaguely = UKIP

    Could you enlighten.
    I´d say the FDP were more like the Orange Bookers. The CSU being to the right of the CDU.
    Actually Socrates statement reads better if you substitute 'europhobe' for 'europhile'.
    Yes FDP are to the right of the Liberals.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    I think we´re hated anyway by a significant proportion of the Sunni world. Irrespective of what we do:
    Famine relief in Somalia
    Intervention on the side of the Muslims in Bosnia
    Illegal war to support Muslim Kosovars

    All these actions were done to support and save Muslim lives.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    TGOHF said:

    Socrates said:


    If they'd taken MY advice, the insurrection in Syria would have been mopped up two years ago, hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved, there would be no ISIS, no Nusrah Front, and the streets of Aleppo would be safe.

    If they take my advice NOW, which is to stop trying to unseat Assad whilst professing to want to defeat ISIS, and arm and support Assad to get rid of ISIS, the crisis would be over much faster than with your remedy. So as far as I can see, you're the one calling for the suffering to be prolonged, not me.

    If we'd have backed Assad while he was exercising extreme butchery towards unarmed protesters, or conducting ethnic cleansing to get rid of Sunnis between the Alawite strip and Damascus, we'd have become hated by the entire Sunni world. It would have Al-Qaeda's bloody sunday in terms of recruitment.
    Bloody Sunday - but we would be the Norwegians.

    Was the world that bad with Saddam and Assad in power ?
    If we were financing Assad, as luckyguy suggests, we sure as hell wouldn't be the Norwegians.

    Life was indeed pretty bad for the people oppressed by Hussein and Assad, although I accept they're not as horrendous as Daesh. That said, Daesh is a product of Assad, and his sidelining of the Sunni majority. Since the Arab spring, we will never be able to replace Daesh with a Shia dictator, because the Sunni population will never accept him. We need a Sunni alternative.
  • TGOHF said:

    One for the "privatise all public transport" argument

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/prestwick-airport-flights-down-to-one-a-day-1-3533174

    "PASSENGER flights at Prestwick Airport are being cut to as few as one a day from next month, The Scotsman can reveal.

    The Ayrshire airport, bought by the Scottish Government last year to save it from closure, will handle its fewest flights for more than 20 years after Ryanair switched several routes to Glasgow."

    I like Ryanair, mainly because it gets me to my friends in Carcassonne quicker than I could get to, say, Manchester - and cheaper.

    But they are buggers when it comes to closing down routes. As soon as they become unprofitable they close them without regard to the needs of the locals.

    I'd hate to think what would happen to Londonderry if they closed that service.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Floater, thanks, it's much appreciated and I hope you like both books :)
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Itajai said:

    Socrates said:

    Possibly interesting strategic developments in Germany. Thueringen seems about to elect a Left (ex-Communist) State leader with Social Democrat/Green support; in return for this, the Left leaders in the state had to agree to say that the former GDR was a society based on illegality (the German word Unrechtsstaat is slightly ambiguous, but it's basically rude). This is being interpreted as a trial run for a possible future Social Democrat led Red-Red-Green option nationally, which is slightly more possible, perhaps as a minority government, as the CDU have flatly ruled out any cooperation with the UKIP-like AfD.

    It's all very tentative and may come unstuck (the alliance has a majority of 1), but may have significant medium-term implications.

    It's pretty amazing that the SDP are more willing to work with ex-communists than the CDU are with the mildly europhile AfD. I guess it shows how the arrogance and entitlement of the centre-right isn't restricted to the UK.
    I'm a bit rusty on German politics, but that really confused me.
    I thought SPD vaguely = Labour
    CDU/CSU vaguely = Tories
    FDP vaguely = LibDems
    and AfD vaguely = UKIP

    Could you enlighten.
    I´d say the FDP were more like the Orange Bookers. The CSU being to the right of the CDU.
    Actually Socrates statement reads better if you substitute 'europhobe' for 'europhile'.
    Yes FDP are to the right of the Liberals.
    Supporting membership of the European Union does not really align with being a "europhobe". ("Eurosceptic" is the preferred term)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    MikeK said:

    Help UKIP Get To Number One!

    Our celebrity member Mike Read, the former Radio 1 DJ, has written a brand new single especially for UKIP and we need your help to get it to the top of the pop charts.

    First performed to great acclaim at our Party Conference in Doncaster, UKIP Calypso by The Independents needs to sell just 22,000 downloads to make it into the Top 30, or 28,000 to get into the Top 10.

    I think party supporters of all non purple parties should get this Jim Davidson's chalky slice of Vanilla Ice - in da hood - pretty fly for a white guy nonsense to a wider audience.
    Dire 70's throw back stuff. Does Read 'black up' to perform it?
    Jimmy Buffett would be turning in his grave - if he were dead.
  • Sadly, I have yet to hear Mike Read's UKIP calypso, but I hope (and expect) that he puts on a West Indian accent to sing it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Possibly interesting strategic developments in Germany. Thueringen seems about to elect a Left (ex-Communist) State leader with Social Democrat/Green support; in return for this, the Left leaders in the state had to agree to say that the former GDR was a society based on illegality (the German word Unrechtsstaat is slightly ambiguous, but it's basically rude). This is being interpreted as a trial run for a possible future Social Democrat led Red-Red-Green option nationally, which is slightly more possible, perhaps as a minority government, as the CDU have flatly ruled out any cooperation with the UKIP-like AfD.

    It's all very tentative and may come unstuck (the alliance has a majority of 1), but may have significant medium-term implications.

    It's pretty amazing that the SDP are more willing to work with ex-communists than the CDU are with the mildly europhile AfD. I guess it shows how the arrogance and entitlement of the centre-right isn't restricted to the UK.
    I'm a bit rusty on German politics, but that really confused me.
    I thought SPD vaguely = Labour
    CDU/CSU vaguely = Tories
    FDP vaguely = LibDems
    and AfD vaguely = UKIP

    Could you enlighten.
    SPD = Labour less the union influence
    CDU = Ken Clarke Tories
    FDP = Orange Bookers
    AfD = Middle of the road Tories

    AfD want to leave the Eurozone but stay in the EU. They are in the same party grouping as the Tories.
    Wolfgang Schauble made a remarkably inept speech in which he described AFD as "the shame of Germany", and compared them to the Republikaner, an ultra-right party in the 1990s.

    I suppose the CDU are at the stage where they react very emotionally towards anyone who threatens to break their monopoly of right wing representation. A couple more electoral breakthroughs for AFD will probably change their tune.
  • manofkent2014manofkent2014 Posts: 1,543
    edited October 2014
    Hmmmmm another of those threads is it? Whatever gives them a rise I suppose

    Firstly I imagine that if 40% to 50% of the Tory vote nationally moved to UKIP then the Tories are finished as a serious political force for a generation if not more.

    Furthermore i see the article makes much of the 88 people who thought Reckless was a traitor as opposed to the 77 who didn't. Yet it does not consider that 88% (224) of the UKIP vote that are voting either for the party or as a protest so don't care about whether Reckless is a hero or not. It also overlooks the 364 people who considered his action an act of principle.

    Of course the other question which is not considered is how much qudos Reckless might receive from Labour voters for turning his back on the Tories and whether a 'The only party that can beat the Tories is UKIP campaign' might attract a tactical vote from Labour?

    What the poll does suggest is that the largest part of the switch to UKIP is coming from the Tories, The Tory vote on that poll is 37% down on 2010 which broadly coincides with the Tory split graph above but also suggests the Tories are picking up virtually no other votes, the Labour vote is only marginally down and the Libdem vote has collapsed with the net beneficiaries in all cases being UKIP.

    Therefore whether people think Reckless a hero or traitor people are intending to vote for UKIP in larger numbers than any of the other parties and lead the poll
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Sadly, I have yet to hear Mike Read's UKIP calypso, but I hope (and expect) that he puts on a West Indian accent to sing it.

    And blacks up, obviously.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Sadly, I have yet to hear Mike Read's UKIP calypso, but I hope (and expect) that he puts on a West Indian accent to sing it.

    Think Jim Davidson doing his "Chalky" persona - it's on spotify.

  • @AllyPally

    "A part of me was slightly disappointing to have never visited when the wall was up, but my tourist interest is not worth the misery of millions of Germans."

    Shortly after reunification I went to Halle with a business delegation to buy a local firm.

    It was an extraordinary experience. Imagine going into a derelict house where somebody had been living for fifty years without doing any decoration, repairs or cleaning. Now imagine a whole country like that. Got it?

    I drove from Berlin airport and you knew when you were in the GDR because of the bumps as you hit the potholes.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Itajai said:

    It just shows that the crimes of the left are more easily excused and forgotten. Does anyone really think the successors of the National Socialists would be allowed anywhere near power.

    Of course, the crimes of the left were merely a footnote of history because the dream was so joyous and beautiful.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2091670/Hitler-Stalin-The-murderous-regimes-world.html

    "Top 10 despots of modern times"

    1) Mao Communism
    2) Stalin Communism
    3) Hitler National socialism
    4) King Leopold II Colonialism
    5) Tojo Military dictatorship
    6) Pasha Military dictatorship
    7) Pol Pot Communism
    8) Kil Il Sung Communism
    9) Mariam Communict Military dictatorship
    10) Gowon Military dictatorship

    Assad and Mugabe are the only ones who make this list who are in power at the moment. Though I'm quite sure Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is doing his utmost to get on this list.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    TGOHF said:

    MikeK said:

    Help UKIP Get To Number One!

    Our celebrity member Mike Read, the former Radio 1 DJ, has written a brand new single especially for UKIP and we need your help to get it to the top of the pop charts.

    First performed to great acclaim at our Party Conference in Doncaster, UKIP Calypso by The Independents needs to sell just 22,000 downloads to make it into the Top 30, or 28,000 to get into the Top 10.

    I think party supporters of all non purple parties should get this Jim Davidson's chalky slice of Vanilla Ice - in da hood - pretty fly for a white guy nonsense to a wider audience.
    Dire 70's throw back stuff. Does Read 'black up' to perform it?
    I haven't listened to it and hopefully never will... but taking it from your comments that there is some kind of affected caribbean voice element to it, and reading your objections, do you dislike it when people like Robbie Williams affect American voices to sing songs of a certain style? Or is taking offence for black people when none is intended a default position for you?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ishmael_X said:

    Sadly, I have yet to hear Mike Read's UKIP calypso, but I hope (and expect) that he puts on a West Indian accent to sing it.

    And blacks up, obviously.

    With the now customary Kipper "we're doooomed under Cameron" mantra the track is more Jacob Marley than Bob or Ziggy..
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''ISIS kidnapped 2000 Yazidi girls, for rape and slavery, two weeks ago.''

    Whenever you read accounts of what's happening on the ground, the anti-ISIL fighters are still crying out for weapons, weeks after all this kicked off.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    @AllyPally

    "A part of me was slightly disappointing to have never visited when the wall was up, but my tourist interest is not worth the misery of millions of Germans."

    Shortly after reunification I went to Halle with a business delegation to buy a local firm.

    It was an extraordinary experience. Imagine going into a derelict house where somebody had been living for fifty years without doing any decoration, repairs or cleaning. Now imagine a whole country like that. Got it?

    I drove from Berlin airport and you knew when you were in the GDR because of the bumps as you hit the potholes.

    When I crossed the border from Bavaria to the Czech Republic in 2004 I was struck by how derelict it was, with abandoned houses and overgrown farms. The expulsion of the Sudeten Germans clearly had a huge effect, nearly 60 years on.
  • By the the way should the chart above also be retitled to represent what it actually stands for

    Survation's Clacton & Rochester polls: Con Voter's Carswell/Reckless "Hero or a traitor?"

    The article implies that the second bar graph represents the views of Rochester and Strood. It does not. It represents the views of Rochester and Strood 2010 Con Voters
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    #ukipsongs trending on twitter - obviously there is nothing by Foreigner..
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited October 2014
    SeanT said:



    ISIS/Daesh germinated in Jordan, and first come to serious prominence in Iraq, as "al Qaeda in Iraq".

    Their origins are not in Syria.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jama'at_al-Tawhid_wal-Jihad

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

    Fair: I was a bit sloppy in my language. I meant that Daesh in their current state of strength. You're right that their first big emergence was due to Maliki's Shia sectarianism. It's their second (bigger) emergence that is due to Assad's (far harsher) Shia sectarianism.

    Anyway, my point is the same. Daesh are so awful that the only reason anyone accepts them is because they prefer people of their own religion to oppressive outsiders. Any reasonable Sunni leader we could find would be able to easily gain support at Daesh's expense.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    taffys said:

    No wonder there are rumours that ISIS are now getting horribly mauled in Kobane.

    Just seen Turkey saying it is allowing the Kurds to reinforce Kobane with Iraqi Kurdish fighters.

    Counter attack??

    Sky news interviewed an American this morning who was a volunteer fighter with the Kurds.

    He looked a slightly overweight middle aged Caucasian guy to me.

    Mercenary or fantasist perhaps?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    They are like a shark that cannot stop swimming and devouring.

    Indeed. That makes me think they'd find a determined counter offensive very difficult to cope with.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ashcroft poll today has Con+Lab on 59%

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Floater said:

    taffys said:

    No wonder there are rumours that ISIS are now getting horribly mauled in Kobane.

    Just seen Turkey saying it is allowing the Kurds to reinforce Kobane with Iraqi Kurdish fighters.

    Counter attack??

    Sky news interviewed an American this morning who was a volunteer fighter with the Kurds.

    He looked a slightly overweight middle aged Caucasian guy to me.

    Mercenary or fantasist perhaps?
    Actually, Sky just named him and report he served during the 1991 Gulf war.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited October 2014
    PB help requested: The first linked article at Guido's is a Paddy Power piece summarising what we learnt from Indyref on Bookies vs Pollsters. My work internet Gestapo blocks me from linking. Any good samaritans who care to summarise what was learnt?

    http://blog.paddypower.com/2014/10/20/scottish-independence-referendum-what-we-learned-about-bookies-vs-pollsters/?AFF_ID=16562
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    TGOHF said:

    Ashcroft poll today has Con+Lab on 59%

    26 and 33?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    I think Kobane will become like Aleppo:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/middle-east-live/2012/jul/28/syria-crisis-aleppo-assad-live

    Syria crisis: Assad forces move in on Aleppo

    http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/10/20/Syrian-army-move-to-tighten-siege-on-Aleppo-.html

    Siege looms over Aleppo as Assad’s regime gains ground

    These city "battles" head on longer than the media spotlight so 2 years from now it could still be happening.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Ashcroft National Poll: Con 28%, Lab 31%, Lib Dem 7%, UKIP 18%, Green 8%
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    TGOHF said:

    Ashcroft poll today has Con+Lab on 59%

    The figures being

    Ashcroft National Poll, 17-19 October: CON 28%, LAB 31%, LDEM 7%, UKIP 18%, GRN 8%
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    What's the meaning of Daesh?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ashcroft finds that 41% of Kippers say the economy will do quite or very badly next year compared to 39% of Labour voters and 30% of LDs.

    VI Lab 31 -1 / Con 28 -/ Kip 18 -1/ Green 8 +3/ LD 7 -1

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Crossover there, Mr. Pulpstar. Greens ahead of Lib Dems seems incredible.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Crossover there, Mr. Pulpstar. Greens ahead of Lib Dems seems incredible.

    Is this a first?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    55% of Lab voters think the country is worse off than 2010 , Kipper on 50%

    Kippers about to cross over Labour as the party of "doom" ?

  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932
    Sean_F said:

    @AllyPally

    "A part of me was slightly disappointing to have never visited when the wall was up, but my tourist interest is not worth the misery of millions of Germans."

    Shortly after reunification I went to Halle with a business delegation to buy a local firm.

    It was an extraordinary experience. Imagine going into a derelict house where somebody had been living for fifty years without doing any decoration, repairs or cleaning. Now imagine a whole country like that. Got it?

    I drove from Berlin airport and you knew when you were in the GDR because of the bumps as you hit the potholes.

    When I crossed the border from Bavaria to the Czech Republic in 2004 I was struck by how derelict it was, with abandoned houses and overgrown farms. The expulsion of the Sudeten Germans clearly had a huge effect, nearly 60 years on.
    I took a coach holiday from Stuttgart to Prague in 1986. A lot of the country was run down, we passed the Skoda factory that was a crumbling wreck. Nowadays my wife drives a 'Rapid'.
    On the way back the border guards almost took the bus to pieces looking for escapees.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    Change from last week's LA poll is Lab, LibDem and UKIP all down 1, Con and Greens steady.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    taffys said:

    No wonder there are rumours that ISIS are now getting horribly mauled in Kobane.

    Just seen Turkey saying it is allowing the Kurds to reinforce Kobane with Iraqi Kurdish fighters.

    Counter attack??

    Also the US successfully air-dropped weapons, food and medicines to the Kobane Kurds last night.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11173564/US-airdrops-arms-to-Kurds-in-Syrian-town-of-Kobane.html

    The city is still seriously threatened, but it now stands a chance of survival. If ISIS fail to take it, despite throwing thousands of men into the battle and losing some of their top commanders (along with tons of weaponry) it will be their first major setback.

    Viva Kobane.

    Who was it suggested giving ISIS an attractive target then annihilating them when they try and take it?

    Seems the US thought it a good idea.

    It was actually a bunch of us who came up with the idea, here on pb, about three months ago.

    So we can add Barack Obama and CENTCOM to the famous readers of this website....
    If they were following your advice, the Yanks would be running about in a blind panic, whilst waving their hands in the air and shrieking "We're all doomed!"
    Fair point well made - lol
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Socrates said:



    SPD = Labour less the union influence
    CDU = Ken Clarke Tories
    FDP = Orange Bookers
    AfD = Middle of the road Tories

    AfD want to leave the Eurozone but stay in the EU. They are in the same party grouping as the Tories.

    Agree with the first three. I don't think the AfD have quite decided what they are yet - they span a range from centrists who think the Euro a nuisance to people who have dubious views on Jews. Their centre of gravity is only a bit right of centre but they are finding some dodgy hangers-on.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Pulpstar said:

    Ashcroft National Poll: Con 28%, Lab 31%, Lib Dem 7%, UKIP 18%, Green 8%

    Difficult to say who this is good for, except Greens!
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited October 2014

    What's the meaning of Daesh?

    It's the Arabic shortening of Dawlah al-Islāmīyah fīl-ʻIraq wa ash-Shām, the Arabic for the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. Apparently the jihadists hate the term, for some reason I've forgotten.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Greens seem to be skewed towards younger voters. They get 28% of 18-24 age group.

    p.5
    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ANP-141020-Full-data-tables.pdf
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    The Cons-Lab lead is trending up (slowly) with Lord Ashcroft, but so far it's mainly down to Labour falling off, than Conservatives gaining.

    Chart: Lord Ashcroft polls
  • Re the Greens… Last time any poll had them higher than this was an Audience Selection polls on 2nd October 1989! (Thanks Mark Pack)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Thanks, Mr. Socrates.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Interesting, looking at Ashcroft's poll, how the class basis for British politics has largely vanished. Labour and Tories are roughly equal in all classes except DE (where Labour leads). UKIP has balanced support in all classes except AB.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited October 2014


    The Cons-Lab lead is trending up (slowly) with Lord Ashcroft, but so far it's mainly down to Labour falling off, than Conservatives gaining.

    Chart: Lord Ashcroft polls

    The Conservatives and LDs seem to be bombing with swing voters.

    Conservatives: 2010-Con 74%, 2010-Lab 3%, 2010-LD 6%
    Labour: 2010-Con 3%, 2010-Lab 74%, 2010-LD 29%

    UKIP: 2010-Con 20%, 2010-Lab 11%, 2010-LD 16%
    LD: 2010-Con 1%, 2010-Lab 1%, 2010-LD 30%
    Green: 2010-Con 1%, 2010-Lab 3%, 2010-LD 16%

    p.6
    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ANP-141020-Full-data-tables.pdf
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:



    SPD = Labour less the union influence
    CDU = Ken Clarke Tories
    FDP = Orange Bookers
    AfD = Middle of the road Tories

    AfD want to leave the Eurozone but stay in the EU. They are in the same party grouping as the Tories.

    Agree with the first three. I don't think the AfD have quite decided what they are yet - they span a range from centrists who think the Euro a nuisance to people who have dubious views on Jews. Their centre of gravity is only a bit right of centre but they are finding some dodgy hangers-on.
    I think that's inevitable for any new party. I'm sure Labour of the 1930s were very similar.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    new thread
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    MikeK said:

    Possibly interesting strategic developments in Germany. Thueringen seems about to elect a Left (ex-Communist) State leader with Social Democrat/Green support; in return for this, the Left leaders in the state had to agree to say that the former GDR was a society based on illegality (the German word Unrechtsstaat is slightly ambiguous, but it's basically rude). This is being interpreted as a trial run for a possible future Social Democrat led Red-Red-Green option nationally, which is slightly more possible, perhaps as a minority government, as the CDU have flatly ruled out any cooperation with the UKIP-like AfD.

    It's all very tentative and may come unstuck (the alliance has a majority of 1), but may have significant medium-term implications.

    The hostility between the SDP and Die Linke is still pretty strong as I understand.

    I have never quite understood why the Left seems to defend the GDR to the extent it does in Germany. It was a highly militaristic state, that goose-stepped around terrifying its own people and was lead by a privileged ruling class. Hardly a socialist dream in many regards!
    The DDR was a highly pernicious, dangerous, Soviet Style State; ruled by the Stasi ( I love alliteration ) under, you guessed it, an elite. This succumbed state has threads all through and over the FDR. Is it any wonder that the great German republic is is slowly choking in it's EU mattress.
    I visited the Stasi museum in Berlin, as well as one about the history of the GDR. I was stuck by two things;

    1. The enormous cost of keeping the people in, not just the Berlin Wall, but also the Inner German Border and patrolling the coastline. It must have practically bankrupt them!

    2. The grim nature of life, even compared to other Eastern Block countries. I think everybody was surprised at the level of pollution and decay in the GDR when the border came down.

    A part of me was slightly disappointing to have never visited when the wall was up, but my tourist interest is not worth the misery of millions of Germans.
    One of the guys who works with me visited East Berlin in his youth and managed to cause a bit of a stir.

    Turns out his dad worked for the security services (or GCHQ -I forget which) and the name was on some sort of watch list.
  • Greens seem to be skewed towards younger voters. They get 28% of 18-24 age group.

    p.5
    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ANP-141020-Full-data-tables.pdf

    That may be Labour lefty indoctrination blowing up in their faces. My daughters go to the British School in the Netherlands and it's clear there's a steady feed of watermelony save the whales crap. (Good job I'm there to set them straight!). At some point the young'uns that can't think for themselves will end up voting watermelon.
  • Patrick said:

    PB help requested: The first linked article at Guido's is a Paddy Power piece summarising what we learnt from Indyref on Bookies vs Pollsters. My work internet Gestapo blocks me from linking. Any good samaritans who care to summarise what was learnt?

    http://blog.paddypower.com/2014/10/20/scottish-independence-referendum-what-we-learned-about-bookies-vs-pollsters/?AFF_ID=16562

    Sent you a copy.

  • Patrick said:

    Greens seem to be skewed towards younger voters. They get 28% of 18-24 age group.

    p.5
    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ANP-141020-Full-data-tables.pdf

    That may be Labour lefty indoctrination blowing up in their faces. My daughters go to the British School in the Netherlands and it's clear there's a steady feed of watermelony save the whales crap. (Good job I'm there to set them straight!). At some point the young'uns that can't think for themselves will end up voting watermelon.
    Heaven forbid your daughter might actually be learning about caring for other things rather than selfish consumerism and me me me culture ;)
This discussion has been closed.