The polls (YouGov and Lord Ashcroft) have moved against Labour - is this a genuine pattern change or just the volatility we expect after conference season? Time will tell as ever, but this is not the time to be throwing in the towel or popping champgne corks whatever 'side' (if any) you support.
I'm waiting for the ICM phone poll (which should be next week) and the Ipsos-Mori (hopefully this week)
That said, as the morning thread showed, half the voters might not make up their minds until next April/May.
Is your position so weak you really have to lie about the arguments of others?
What is your position then what did your post mean or are the 1400 rapes my personal responsibility as one poster accused on Sunday
My position was that one of the products of mass immigration was 1400 child rapes, which happened because, among other causes, of a combination of misogyny and disdain of white people among certain ethnic groups. Given that we were discussing what mass immigration had done for us in the aggregate, I thought the point was quite clear. Only an idiot would think I meant every individual immigrant is responsible for that. Especially when I go out of my way again and again to point out that there are plenty of decent law-abiding integrated immigrants of the first and second generation. Some people are just desperate to see racism because they can't deal with the actual arguments and evidence of the matter.
Good thanks for explaining that.
Unfortunately the view that Pakis are all at it and that somehow the whole Muslim faith is bound to create suicide bombers and child rape is prevalent with some idiots.
It sounds fascinating, but some context would be lovely..
I’ll translate for you – Tim Farron is making his final speech at conference as party President, at the moment he is attacking both Labour and Tories, and what looks like a veiled dig at UKiP "Patriots love their country, nationalists hate their neighbours...Nationalists who pass off their problems onto others"
[edit] Now going big on Green issues - genuine commitment or just shoring up voter seepage to the Lucas party, is anyone's guess.
If you, like me, want to avoid a GE2015 Labour government then don't celebrate the murmurs against Ed Miliband's leadership.
I am not spinning here at all. I come from a Labour heartland and Miliband is the best chance of avoiding a Labour government. Just as in Scotland, there is very little support for him here in Wales. In fact, he engenders gape-mouthed WTF's from Labour people round here.
I'm sanguine about a Labour govt in 2020 when the finances are better sorted, but don't want Ed Miliband or his backers like MucCluskey anywhere near the public finances in 2015.
For those who desire either a) another coalition or b) a Tory majority (extremely unlikely, if not impossible, in my view) we need Ed Miliband leading Labour into the election campaign.
I personally think he will be eviscerated in a month-long campaign. He just hasn't got it and I think he will keep potential Labour voters at home. Wih him in charge there is a chance of a 4-5% Tory lead over Labour and just enough to stave off a Labour win.
So keep fingers crossed that Miliband stays in place.
Always difficult to unseat an incumbert Leader if they do not want to go.Burnham might be more popular in the party but how come he did so poorly in the 2010 leadership?Yvette Cooper has clearly been working hard at her appearance and given Harriet Harman`s success in Deputy contest there is a huge bias among labour party members for the right female candidate
That is the real problem -- there is no obvious successor. We know from the last leadership election that Burnham has little support and Ed Balls even less. Saying nothing on policy means no new stars have emerged -- whether by Ed's machiavellian design or not.
Always difficult to unseat an incumbert Leader if they do not want to go.Burnham might be more popular in the party but how come he did so poorly in the 2010 leadership?Yvette Cooper has clearly been working hard at her appearance and given Harriet Harman`s success in Deputy contest there is a huge bias among labour party members for the right female candidate
That is the real problem -- there is no obvious successor. We know from the last leadership election that Burnham has little support and Ed Balls even less. Saying nothing on policy means no new stars have emerged -- whether by Ed's machiavellian design or not.
Would the obvious successor have been David Miliband, if he hadn't moved on to New York?
This misreads the Labour Party in a rather Toryish way. First, unlike the Tories, we just don't get rid of leaders who haven't lost an election. Not Brown. Not Foot. Never. Second, Ed is actually widely liked in the party, even by people who didn't vote for him (like me) though supporters worry that his poll ratings might damage our election chances. If we win anyway, the worries will instantly go away. If the Government then runs into trouble (as all governments do), point 1 protects him.
If you, like me, want to avoid a GE2015 Labour government then don't celebrate the murmurs against Ed Miliband's leadership.
I am not spinning here at all. I come from a Labour heartland and Miliband is the best chance of avoiding a Labour government. Just as in Scotland, there is very little support for him here in Wales. In fact, he engenders gape-mouthed WTF's from Labour people round here.
I'm sanguine about a Labour govt in 2020 when the finances are better sorted, but don't want Ed Miliband or his backers like MucCluskey anywhere near the public finances in 2015.
For those who desire either a) another coalition or b) a Tory majority (extremely unlikely, if not impossible, in my view) we need Ed Miliband leading Labour into the election campaign.
I personally think he will be eviscerated in a month-long campaign. He just hasn't got it and I think he will keep potential Labour voters at home. Wih him in charge there is a chance of a 4-5% Tory lead over Labour and just enough to stave off a Labour win.
So keep fingers crossed that Miliband stays in place.
So Labour needs the Tories to come in and fix the economy for them. Then they can get in and wreck it again like they always do.
"Turkey is sowing the wind but will reap the whirlwind."
There seems to be little understanding on here of Turkey's attitude to the Kurds. They were terrorized by these people over a twenty year period and they'll tell you their brutality was on a par with ISIS.
It's reckoned that the Kurds under Ocalan were responsible for at least 40,000 Turkish deaths.
Asking them to aide the Kurds for the common good is just a non starter.
I was working in Istanbul in the late 90's and after the job my client invited me for dinner with his family.
He told me that his son had been a conscript in the army (as all Turks were obliged to be) and had returned with severe psychological problems. He had the severest shakes I've ever seen and though he could speak English he was all over the place.
The father explained that he had been posted to one of the border towns with a large Kurdish population and during the day they went about their business and at night killed as many Turkish soldiers as they could find.
The young soldiers returned nervous wrecks. Some were so disturbed they killed themselves and his son had been under a psychiatrist for over a year. His father was visibly distraught in the presence of his son.
I find it very difficult to see these plucky Kurds in the same way as others do.
That reminds me a lot of my husband when he broke his leg and housebound for 3 months. I left him to do the laundry [a first for everything] and came back to find heaps of clothes in the middle of floor and him peering at faded washing labels trying to work out what to do.
Fortunately, this had stalled his quest to stuff everything in based on 30/40C regardless of colours. A dirty pink result wouldn't have impressed me much.
I'll never forget his relief when I walked back in "You're right, this is harder than it looks". I never let him near the washer again. He got bin-duty - and hoovering instead.
Comments
That said, as the morning thread showed, half the voters might not make up their minds until next April/May.
An ISIS mini Verdun?
Must be a twitter fan.
Seriously, I can't translate everything.
Unfortunately the view that Pakis are all at it and that somehow the whole Muslim faith is bound to create suicide bombers and child rape is prevalent with some idiots.
I am glad you are not one.
It sounds fascinating, but some context would be lovely..
"Patriots love their country, nationalists hate their neighbours...Nationalists who pass off their problems onto others"
[edit] Now going big on Green issues - genuine commitment or just shoring up voter seepage to the Lucas party, is anyone's guess.
I am not spinning here at all. I come from a Labour heartland and Miliband is the best chance of avoiding a Labour government. Just as in Scotland, there is very little support for him here in Wales. In fact, he engenders gape-mouthed WTF's from Labour people round here.
I'm sanguine about a Labour govt in 2020 when the finances are better sorted, but don't want Ed Miliband or his backers like MucCluskey anywhere near the public finances in 2015.
For those who desire either a) another coalition or b) a Tory majority (extremely unlikely, if not impossible, in my view) we need Ed Miliband leading Labour into the election campaign.
I personally think he will be eviscerated in a month-long campaign. He just hasn't got it and I think he will keep potential Labour voters at home. Wih him in charge there is a chance of a 4-5% Tory lead over Labour and just enough to stave off a Labour win.
So keep fingers crossed that Miliband stays in place.
They're onto Syria now so there might be real consequences if you want to go and watch and be all SeanT
If the 'appalled labour' vote is as big as you suggest, then the polls could, conceivably, be a misleading....??
It'll be interesting to see what a very big poll lead translates into in real terms in H&M.
So Labour needs the Tories to come in and fix the economy for them. Then they can get in and wreck it again like they always do.
"Turkey is sowing the wind but will reap the whirlwind."
There seems to be little understanding on here of Turkey's attitude to the Kurds. They were terrorized by these people over a twenty year period and they'll tell you their brutality was on a par with ISIS.
It's reckoned that the Kurds under Ocalan were responsible for at least 40,000 Turkish deaths.
Asking them to aide the Kurds for the common good is just a non starter.
I was working in Istanbul in the late 90's and after the job my client invited me for dinner with his family.
He told me that his son had been a conscript in the army (as all Turks were obliged to be) and had returned with severe psychological problems. He had the severest shakes I've ever seen and though he could speak English he was all over the place.
The father explained that he had been posted to one of the border towns with a large Kurdish population and during the day they went about their business and at night killed as many Turkish soldiers as they could find.
The young soldiers returned nervous wrecks. Some were so disturbed they killed themselves and his son had been under a psychiatrist for over a year. His father was visibly distraught in the presence of his son.
I find it very difficult to see these plucky Kurds in the same way as others do.
To me it Iooks Iike a Saimond-rhetoric fused time bomb.
Imagine Iabour with 60% in MiIitant.