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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Survation Rochester Poll has UKIP 9% ahead

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  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    "UKIP voters told us the reason for voting Reckless,was liking UKIP and their policies (70%) vs protest (18%) or liking Reckless (12%)."

    twitter.com/Survation/status/518518596855939072
  • Lennon said:

    On the timing of the Rochester by-election - maybe it will be left to fester a while before being called?

    I'm not actually sure, but I believe the position is that anyone in the Commons can move the writ (the Government can vote it down, but it'd be horribly embarrassing), so assuming Carswell is elected on Thursday, he could move the writ next week after he's sworn in, if he wants to frustrate a Tory plan to play it long.

    Interesting and good point - and he wouldn't even really be breaking convention, which as I understand it is the party of the previous MP (which you could argue was UKIP as he defected before resigning his seat)
    UKIP will surely move the writ for an early election.

    They're ahead in the polls, they would have impetus from Clacton, it's more good publicity. No brainer really.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    edited October 2014
    Pong said:

    Hmm,

    Immediately after reckless defected, I predicted the real odds were something like;

    Ukip 1/3
    Con 3/1
    Lab 8/1

    Looks like I was pretty much spot on.

    Thank you William hill for going 6/5 on UKIP :)

    After seeing this poll, I'd be more:

    UKIP 1/2
    Con 3/2
    Lab 20/1

    By-elections usually end up as two horse races. Which way will the Labour vote split?

    (As an aside, the empirical evidence from 538 is that - outside of Primaries - there is no such thing as 'momentum'. If the last poll result has shown you gaining share, the chance of the next showing the same is less than 50/50. I.e. mean reversion seems to top "the big mo")
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693

    PP still have UKIP at 8/11 to win Rochester on the back of this poll. That looks generous, but DYOR.

    If Clacton goes as expected, it will probably be 1/2 by Friday morning, PfP.

    It'll be under 1/2 by tomorrow morning imo.

    Place your bets while the bookies are asleep.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Pong said:

    PP still have UKIP at 8/11 to win Rochester on the back of this poll. That looks generous, but DYOR.

    If Clacton goes as expected, it will probably be 1/2 by Friday morning, PfP.

    It'll be under 1/2 by tomorrow morning imo.

    Place your bets while the bookies are asleep.
    I think that's a good trading bet - but if it swings more than 1/3 post Clacton, I'd be hedging hard.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    Lennon said:

    On the timing of the Rochester by-election - maybe it will be left to fester a while before being called?

    I'm not actually sure, but I believe the position is that anyone in the Commons can move the writ (the Government can vote it down, but it'd be horribly embarrassing), so assuming Carswell is elected on Thursday, he could move the writ next week after he's sworn in, if he wants to frustrate a Tory plan to play it long.

    Interesting and good point - and he wouldn't even really be breaking convention, which as I understand it is the party of the previous MP (which you could argue was UKIP as he defected before resigning his seat)
    UKIP will surely move the writ for an early election.

    They're ahead in the polls, they would have impetus from Clacton, it's more good publicity. No brainer really.
    Not sure that UKIP can move any writ...
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Lennon said:

    On the timing of the Rochester by-election - maybe it will be left to fester a while before being called?

    I'm not actually sure, but I believe the position is that anyone in the Commons can move the writ (the Government can vote it down, but it'd be horribly embarrassing), so assuming Carswell is elected on Thursday, he could move the writ next week after he's sworn in, if he wants to frustrate a Tory plan to play it long.

    Interesting and good point - and he wouldn't even really be breaking convention, which as I understand it is the party of the previous MP (which you could argue was UKIP as he defected before resigning his seat)
    UKIP will surely move the writ for an early election.

    They're ahead in the polls, they would have impetus from Clacton, it's more good publicity. No brainer really.
    Not sure that UKIP can move any writ...
    Mr Carswell needs to get elected first. :-)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    From survation

    88% of those voting UKIP in the by-election would also vote for Reckless in next year’s general election 3% said they wouldn’t and 9% DK

    UKIP voters told us the reason for voting Reckless,was liking UKIP and their policies (70%) vs protest (18%) or liking Reckless (12%).


    Data Tables here:

    http://survation.com/rochester-strood-by-election-poll-survation-for-mail-on-sunday/

    Sample size 1012

    Assuming that the result is as shown in the poll, then that would make the GE a real nail-biter - Reckless would drop to 35.5%, and the Tories (assuming they got 75% of the 12% of Reckless switchers) would jump to 35.2%.
  • manofkent2014manofkent2014 Posts: 1,543
    edited October 2014

    The latest poll lead for the Conservatives after their conference seems to show how gullible people are about the unrealistic promises to cut taxes, spend more on the NHS and still eliminate the unsustainable deficit.

    Even UKIP are making tax cut promises which appear to increase the deficit from £100billion per year to £200 billion per year.

    We need the Office of Budget Responsibility to audit all the parties manifestos and tell the voters the implications for financial prudence and stability.

    No UKIPs proposals include restricting child benefit, slashing international aid, withdrawing from the EU, scrapping Green subsidies etc all of which provide savings not considered by other parties. So your gross exaggerations are pure fantasy!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    This by-election poll has brought out some of the worst spin I think I've ever witnessed.

    It goes like this:

    UKIP are ahead by 9% compared to a 21% Conservative lead at the general election.

    Therefore the Tories are probably going to win the by-election.

    Sorry??? How do you reach that conclusion?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,704

    Lennon said:

    On the timing of the Rochester by-election - maybe it will be left to fester a while before being called?

    I'm not actually sure, but I believe the position is that anyone in the Commons can move the writ (the Government can vote it down, but it'd be horribly embarrassing), so assuming Carswell is elected on Thursday, he could move the writ next week after he's sworn in, if he wants to frustrate a Tory plan to play it long.

    Interesting and good point - and he wouldn't even really be breaking convention, which as I understand it is the party of the previous MP (which you could argue was UKIP as he defected before resigning his seat)
    UKIP will surely move the writ for an early election.

    They're ahead in the polls, they would have impetus from Clacton, it's more good publicity. No brainer really.
    Not sure that UKIP can move any writ...
    Could Carswell move the writ on Friday?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Jonathan said:

    Lennon said:

    On the timing of the Rochester by-election - maybe it will be left to fester a while before being called?

    I'm not actually sure, but I believe the position is that anyone in the Commons can move the writ (the Government can vote it down, but it'd be horribly embarrassing), so assuming Carswell is elected on Thursday, he could move the writ next week after he's sworn in, if he wants to frustrate a Tory plan to play it long.

    Interesting and good point - and he wouldn't even really be breaking convention, which as I understand it is the party of the previous MP (which you could argue was UKIP as he defected before resigning his seat)
    UKIP will surely move the writ for an early election.

    They're ahead in the polls, they would have impetus from Clacton, it's more good publicity. No brainer really.
    Not sure that UKIP can move any writ...
    Could Carswell move the writ on Friday?
    If he is appointed as Chief Whip... I guess he could
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2014
    "Survation ‏@Survation 32m32 minutes ago

    88% of those voting UKIP in the by-election would also vote for Reckless in next year’s general election 3% said they wouldn’t and 9% DK"


    twitter.com/Survation/status/518519394834841600
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    The other thing to consider is whether there will be a knock on boost for UKIP in Rochester should Carswell win and win well in Clacton and if there is another defection in the pipeline for after a Carswell victory would it be timed to take place in the run up to the Rochester by election?

    Traitors all!

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Tory restaurant.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzIsLWrIMAAA1gy.jpg:large

    twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/518525480858054656
  • manofkent2014manofkent2014 Posts: 1,543
    edited October 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    From survation

    88% of those voting UKIP in the by-election would also vote for Reckless in next year’s general election 3% said they wouldn’t and 9% DK

    UKIP voters told us the reason for voting Reckless,was liking UKIP and their policies (70%) vs protest (18%) or liking Reckless (12%).


    Data Tables here:

    http://survation.com/rochester-strood-by-election-poll-survation-for-mail-on-sunday/

    Sample size 1012

    Assuming that the result is as shown in the poll, then that would make the GE a real nail-biter - Reckless would drop to 35.5%, and the Tories (assuming they got 75% of the 12% of Reckless switchers) would jump to 35.2%.
    Perhaps but who's to say that the protest vote won't protest at the general election too? The Libdems always seemed to be able to get them out on General election day.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Jonathan said:

    Lennon said:

    On the timing of the Rochester by-election - maybe it will be left to fester a while before being called?

    I'm not actually sure, but I believe the position is that anyone in the Commons can move the writ (the Government can vote it down, but it'd be horribly embarrassing), so assuming Carswell is elected on Thursday, he could move the writ next week after he's sworn in, if he wants to frustrate a Tory plan to play it long.

    Interesting and good point - and he wouldn't even really be breaking convention, which as I understand it is the party of the previous MP (which you could argue was UKIP as he defected before resigning his seat)
    UKIP will surely move the writ for an early election.

    They're ahead in the polls, they would have impetus from Clacton, it's more good publicity. No brainer really.
    Not sure that UKIP can move any writ...
    Could Carswell move the writ on Friday?
    If he is appointed as Chief Whip... I guess he could
    Mr Palmer said he could.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    rcs1000 said:

    From survation

    88% of those voting UKIP in the by-election would also vote for Reckless in next year’s general election 3% said they wouldn’t and 9% DK

    UKIP voters told us the reason for voting Reckless,was liking UKIP and their policies (70%) vs protest (18%) or liking Reckless (12%).


    Data Tables here:

    http://survation.com/rochester-strood-by-election-poll-survation-for-mail-on-sunday/

    Sample size 1012

    Assuming that the result is as shown in the poll, then that would make the GE a real nail-biter - Reckless would drop to 35.5%, and the Tories (assuming they got 75% of the 12% of Reckless switchers) would jump to 35.2%.
    Pish. By the time the GE rolls round everyone will want to vote UKIP!
  • Jonathan said:

    Lennon said:

    On the timing of the Rochester by-election - maybe it will be left to fester a while before being called?

    I'm not actually sure, but I believe the position is that anyone in the Commons can move the writ (the Government can vote it down, but it'd be horribly embarrassing), so assuming Carswell is elected on Thursday, he could move the writ next week after he's sworn in, if he wants to frustrate a Tory plan to play it long.

    Interesting and good point - and he wouldn't even really be breaking convention, which as I understand it is the party of the previous MP (which you could argue was UKIP as he defected before resigning his seat)
    UKIP will surely move the writ for an early election.

    They're ahead in the polls, they would have impetus from Clacton, it's more good publicity. No brainer really.
    Not sure that UKIP can move any writ...
    Could Carswell move the writ on Friday?
    If he is appointed as Chief Whip... I guess he could
    Any MP can move the writ:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Parliamentary_by-elections
  • rcs1000 said:

    From survation

    88% of those voting UKIP in the by-election would also vote for Reckless in next year’s general election 3% said they wouldn’t and 9% DK

    UKIP voters told us the reason for voting Reckless,was liking UKIP and their policies (70%) vs protest (18%) or liking Reckless (12%).


    Data Tables here:

    http://survation.com/rochester-strood-by-election-poll-survation-for-mail-on-sunday/

    Sample size 1012

    Assuming that the result is as shown in the poll, then that would make the GE a real nail-biter - Reckless would drop to 35.5%, and the Tories (assuming they got 75% of the 12% of Reckless switchers) would jump to 35.2%.
    Incumbency bonus, RCS?

    Somehow I suspect whoever wins in November (or whenever) will win in May.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    Jonathan said:

    Lennon said:

    On the timing of the Rochester by-election - maybe it will be left to fester a while before being called?

    I'm not actually sure, but I believe the position is that anyone in the Commons can move the writ (the Government can vote it down, but it'd be horribly embarrassing), so assuming Carswell is elected on Thursday, he could move the writ next week after he's sworn in, if he wants to frustrate a Tory plan to play it long.

    Interesting and good point - and he wouldn't even really be breaking convention, which as I understand it is the party of the previous MP (which you could argue was UKIP as he defected before resigning his seat)
    UKIP will surely move the writ for an early election.

    They're ahead in the polls, they would have impetus from Clacton, it's more good publicity. No brainer really.
    Not sure that UKIP can move any writ...
    Could Carswell move the writ on Friday?
    If he is appointed as Chief Whip... I guess he could
    Any MP can move the writ:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Parliamentary_by-elections
    Fair enough - but Carswell would have to be sworn in and I doubt that would happen on Friday
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Lennon said:

    On the timing of the Rochester by-election - maybe it will be left to fester a while before being called?

    I'm not actually sure, but I believe the position is that anyone in the Commons can move the writ (the Government can vote it down, but it'd be horribly embarrassing), so assuming Carswell is elected on Thursday, he could move the writ next week after he's sworn in, if he wants to frustrate a Tory plan to play it long.

    Interesting and good point - and he wouldn't even really be breaking convention, which as I understand it is the party of the previous MP (which you could argue was UKIP as he defected before resigning his seat)
    UKIP will surely move the writ for an early election.

    They're ahead in the polls, they would have impetus from Clacton, it's more good publicity. No brainer really.
    Not sure that UKIP can move any writ...
    Mr Carswell needs to get elected first. :-)
    I wouldn't be surprised to see Carswell moving the writ as his first act in Parliament after being elected under his new colours.
  • perdix said:

    The other thing to consider is whether there will be a knock on boost for UKIP in Rochester should Carswell win and win well in Clacton and if there is another defection in the pipeline for after a Carswell victory would it be timed to take place in the run up to the Rochester by election?

    Traitors all!

    You can always spot a Tory. There the ones that will abuse people for disagreeing with them. They really are a shameful disgrace! An embarrassment to this country!
  • UKIP is STILL 8/11 for Rochester with PP. Is Paddy too busy living it up in Paris ahead of tomorrow's L'Arc to notice?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    If Tories eat babies and LDs eat lentils - what do Kippers eat?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited October 2014
    Plato said:

    If Tories eat babies and LDs eat lentils - what do Kippers eat?

    Fruitcake. :-)
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Betvictor:


    UKIP 1.28
    Tory 2.2

    Do they not want any bets to be placed?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Lennon said:


    Interesting and good point - and he wouldn't even really be breaking convention, which as I understand it is the party of the previous MP (which you could argue was UKIP as he defected before resigning his seat)

    That's why I'm not sure. The convention is to wait for the chief whip of the party of the former MP, but what party is that? In any case, an insurgent MP is not normally going to care about conventions - except that it's Carswell, who is a stickler for most things. But I'd have thought that the 650 MPs would include one maverick who will move the writ - and it'd be impossible to vote down ("No, we don't want Rochester to have an MP").
    Lennon said:

    AndyJS said:

    A lot of Tories on Twitter seem genuinely surprised by the Rochester opinion poll.

    Which way? They thought that they would be leading, or are surprised by how close it is?
    There was a lot of Tory chicken-counting, seemingly based on delegates at the conference telling each other how fired up they were and how unpopular they thought Reckless was.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Excellent!

    Plato said:

    If Tories eat babies and LDs eat lentils - what do Kippers eat?

    Fruitcake.
  • Quincel said:

    Betvictor:


    UKIP 1.28
    Tory 2.2

    Do they not want any bets to be placed?

    You got it in one!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,704
    Plato said:

    If Tories eat babies and LDs eat lentils - what do Kippers eat?

    Safe Tory seats.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    I like the full circle of the odds on Rochester. We're pretty close to the original books that were offered: maybe they were right first time.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Jonathan said:

    Plato said:

    If Tories eat babies and LDs eat lentils - what do Kippers eat?

    Safe Tory seats.
    Clacton is awesome. In 2010 the Conservatives won 53% of the vote.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    So crossover confirmed it would seem and Tories now back to their 2010 voteshare, squeeze the UKIP total a little and Cameron will get more than he got last time
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    HYUFD said:

    So crossover confirmed it would seem and Tories now back to their 2010 voteshare, squeeze the UKIP total a little and Cameron will get more than he got last time

    Maybe UKIP will squeeze harder.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Twitter
    Tim Shipman @ShippersUnbound · 2h 2 hours ago
    Labour frontbencher tells Sunday Times Miliband's team are "in the ideas business" while "the rest of us are in the winning votes business".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    Rochester also looks like a far more marginal prospect for UKIP than Clacton, so while favourites not impossible the Tories could snatch it back
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,704

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

    Both of them?

  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2014
    Quincel said:

    Betvictor:


    UKIP 1.28
    Tory 2.2

    Do they not want any bets to be placed?

    I think their politics trader is still in the sinbin after the 2011 scottish election, when PB'ers milked victor dry. I can understand their caution...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    O/T Just been to see Gone Girl, an intriguing film which builds tension and with some astonishing twists and turns towards the end, well worth watching!
  • Anyway, never mind this silly election stuff.

    All those who took Tissue Price's advice to back Washington Nationals at 20/1 to win the World Series should switch to their game against San Francisco now.

    Nationals 1-0 up end of the fourth.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Jonathan said:

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

    Both of them?

    Was the LD conference in the TV news?

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    rcs1000 said:

    From survation

    88% of those voting UKIP in the by-election would also vote for Reckless in next year’s general election 3% said they wouldn’t and 9% DK

    UKIP voters told us the reason for voting Reckless,was liking UKIP and their policies (70%) vs protest (18%) or liking Reckless (12%).


    Data Tables here:

    http://survation.com/rochester-strood-by-election-poll-survation-for-mail-on-sunday/

    Sample size 1012

    Assuming that the result is as shown in the poll, then that would make the GE a real nail-biter - Reckless would drop to 35.5%, and the Tories (assuming they got 75% of the 12% of Reckless switchers) would jump to 35.2%.
    Perhaps but who's to say that the protest vote won't protest at the general election too? The Libdems always seemed to be able to get them out on General election day.
    I think they had about a 60% hold rate...

    It all depends on the MP.

    Carswell: an excellent MP. Even if UKIP were to go backwards substantially in the polls, I'd still expect him to hold on.

    Reckless: an average MP. I see no reason why he should hold on if UKIP fall back in the polls.
  • Jonathan said:

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

    Both of them?

    From this same poll:

    EXCL: 44% of Lib Dem candidates would prefer a coalition with Labour. 14% would prefer the Conservatives if hung parliament.

    As if we needed to be told!
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    edited October 2014

    Jonathan said:

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

    Both of them?

    Was the LD conference in the TV news?

    Yes it was on the Bbc after football results news. It's in Glasgow. If Kay Burley can't cope I can't see how you could expect the entirety of the LDs to cope.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    rcs1000 said:

    From survation

    88% of those voting UKIP in the by-election would also vote for Reckless in next year’s general election 3% said they wouldn’t and 9% DK

    UKIP voters told us the reason for voting Reckless,was liking UKIP and their policies (70%) vs protest (18%) or liking Reckless (12%).


    Data Tables here:

    http://survation.com/rochester-strood-by-election-poll-survation-for-mail-on-sunday/

    Sample size 1012

    Assuming that the result is as shown in the poll, then that would make the GE a real nail-biter - Reckless would drop to 35.5%, and the Tories (assuming they got 75% of the 12% of Reckless switchers) would jump to 35.2%.
    Incumbency bonus, RCS?

    Somehow I suspect whoever wins in November (or whenever) will win in May.
    If the Conservatives win, then they'll hold in May.

    If UKIP win by 10% or more, they'll hold on in May.

    If UKIP win by a few percent thanks to Labourites tactically voting to damage Cameron, then I'd expect it to swing Blue again in May,
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Plato said:

    If Tories eat babies and LDs eat lentils - what do Kippers eat?

    LibDems
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Ouch



    Robbie Gibb @RobbieGibb · 2h 2 hours ago

    EXCL: Just 36% of Lib Dem candidates are happy to use photos of Nick Clegg in their campaign literature #bbcsp/ComRes (2/5)

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    From survation

    88% of those voting UKIP in the by-election would also vote for Reckless in next year’s general election 3% said they wouldn’t and 9% DK

    UKIP voters told us the reason for voting Reckless,was liking UKIP and their policies (70%) vs protest (18%) or liking Reckless (12%).


    Data Tables here:

    http://survation.com/rochester-strood-by-election-poll-survation-for-mail-on-sunday/

    Sample size 1012

    Assuming that the result is as shown in the poll, then that would make the GE a real nail-biter - Reckless would drop to 35.5%, and the Tories (assuming they got 75% of the 12% of Reckless switchers) would jump to 35.2%.
    Incumbency bonus, RCS?

    Somehow I suspect whoever wins in November (or whenever) will win in May.
    If the Conservatives win, then they'll hold in May.

    If UKIP win by 10% or more, they'll hold on in May.

    If UKIP win by a few percent thanks to Labourites tactically voting to damage Cameron, then I'd expect it to swing Blue again in May,
    Why wouldn't they vote tactically again in May, Robert?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    JBriskin said:

    Jonathan said:

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

    Both of them?

    Was the LD conference in the TV news?

    Yes it was on the Bbc after football results news. It's in Glasgow. If Kay Burley can't cope I can't see how you could expect the entirety of the LDs to cope.

    Did the hall fill up? There were some unflattering photos on the interwebs earlier.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    This is a very poor poll for Mark Reckless and UKIP in a by-election where the Tory candidate has not yet been selected. The Conservative party are fired up and angry at this defection, and they are going to now throw the kitchen sink at this by-election on the back of a very successful Conference. Most pundits here have nailed on a comfortable Carsewell win almost from the moment he defected, but its going to be far more interesting to see if he will manage to hang onto any short term by-election win at the next GE after that. I am not so sure that Carsewell will win the seat a second time next May.

    I think that Reckless and UKIP have made the exact same tactical mistake that Gordon Brown and the Labour party did back in the Autumn of 2007 before the Conference season. Trying to derail and scupper a Conservative Party Conference back in 2007 didn't see the party imploding, quite the opposite, it brought unity and fired the party up. Cameron and Osborne also went onto deliver election defining speeches. And that is exactly what has happened this time around after UKIP's defection PR stunt, only both Cameron and Osborne upped their games from 2007 and delivered probable their best speeches yet to Conference as Leader and Chancellor.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    And while Salmond decides to wipe out the debts of poll tax dodgers on Thursday, we await the tax raising plans that John Swinney has in store for the many civic minded Scots who not only paid their taxes, but who also bothered to turn out and vote for the last twenty five years too. Lets see who gets the solidarity and fairness here?!
    Twitter
    sunday herald ‏@newsundayherald 7m7 minutes ago
    Finance Secretary @JohnSwinney to announce first Scottish taxes in budget based on 'fairness and solidarity' ... in tomorrow's paper
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380

    JBriskin said:

    Jonathan said:

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

    Both of them?

    Was the LD conference in the TV news?

    Yes it was on the Bbc after football results news. It's in Glasgow. If Kay Burley can't cope I can't see how you could expect the entirety of the LDs to cope.

    Did the hall fill up? There were some unflattering photos on the interwebs earlier.
    They didn't show the hall - presumably the Bbc moral code does not allow them to give the LDs a kicking when their down.

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    fitalass said:

    This is a very poor poll for Mark Reckless and UKIP

    Yes he must be heartbroken. Reckless leads! Reckless to Win!

    Dreadful headlines for poor Mr Reckless. :-(

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    AnotherDave Well Miliband is back at 1992 levels, it will be the Tory v UKIP tug of war which will determine whether Cameron has a mandate

    You can also add my 'Gone Girl' comments earlier to those on the previous thread
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Totally off topic, but which series were you off to watch earlier Plato? Did you catch the Black list, the opener for the second series bodes well?
    Plato said:

    Ouch



    Robbie Gibb @RobbieGibb · 2h 2 hours ago

    EXCL: Just 36% of Lib Dem candidates are happy to use photos of Nick Clegg in their campaign literature #bbcsp/ComRes (2/5)

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    You're on a haver there fitalass - putting voting on almost as high a pedestal as paying one's taxes.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2014
    fitalass said:

    This is a very poor poll for Mark Reckless and UKIP in a by-election where the Tory candidate has not yet been selected. The Conservative party are fired up and angry at this defection, and they are going to now throw the kitchen sink at this by-election on the back of a very successful Conference. Most pundits here have nailed on a comfortable Carsewell win almost from the moment he defected, but its going to be far more interesting to see if he will manage to hang onto any short term by-election win at the next GE after that. I am not so sure that Carsewell will win the seat a second time next May.

    I think that Reckless and UKIP have made the exact same tactical mistake that Gordon Brown and the Labour party did back in the Autumn of 2007 before the Conference season. Trying to derail and scupper a Conservative Party Conference back in 2007 didn't see the party imploding, quite the opposite, it brought unity and fired the party up. Cameron and Osborne also went onto deliver election defining speeches. And that is exactly what has happened this time around after UKIP's defection PR stunt, only both Cameron and Osborne upped their games from 2007 and delivered probable their best speeches yet to Conference as Leader and Chancellor.

    Wasn't the 2007 tory conference the £1m inheritance tax policy? It was misjugements like that that cost the tories a majority.

    Edit: Oh yes, Osborne was proposing to abolish stamp duty for first time buyers too, just before the market crashed - which would have encouraged a load of young people in immediate negative equity.

    Clever.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7021357.stm
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    HYUFD said:

    AnotherDave Well Miliband is back at 1992 levels, it will be the Tory v UKIP tug of war which will determine whether Cameron has a mandate

    You can also add my 'Gone Girl' comments earlier to those on the previous thread

    What sort of film is this Gone Girl? Comedy? Action? Romance?
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    Plato said:

    If Tories eat babies and LDs eat lentils - what do Kippers eat?

    Well, America has the Tea Party, why can't we have the complementary Fruitcake Party?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    From survation

    88% of those voting UKIP in the by-election would also vote for Reckless in next year’s general election 3% said they wouldn’t and 9% DK

    UKIP voters told us the reason for voting Reckless,was liking UKIP and their policies (70%) vs protest (18%) or liking Reckless (12%).


    Data Tables here:

    http://survation.com/rochester-strood-by-election-poll-survation-for-mail-on-sunday/

    Sample size 1012

    Assuming that the result is as shown in the poll, then that would make the GE a real nail-biter - Reckless would drop to 35.5%, and the Tories (assuming they got 75% of the 12% of Reckless switchers) would jump to 35.2%.
    Incumbency bonus, RCS?

    Somehow I suspect whoever wins in November (or whenever) will win in May.
    If the Conservatives win, then they'll hold in May.

    If UKIP win by 10% or more, they'll hold on in May.

    If UKIP win by a few percent thanks to Labourites tactically voting to damage Cameron, then I'd expect it to swing Blue again in May,
    Why wouldn't they vote tactically again in May, Robert?
    If you look at the history of the Alliance, and the LibDems, you see a c. 60% byelection retention rate, largely as tactical voters returned home at the general. I see no reason why it should be different for UKIP. If Mark Reckless was an excellent constituency MP I'd rate their chances in May higher. But he's not.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    Peter But how many of those LDs will get elected given their present rating? Remaining LD voters prefer the Tories
  • rcs1000 said:

    LDs
    "A significant proportion (around 20%) of prior Liberal Democrat voters are now undecided. These undecided Liberal Democrats are the crucial group for the party – will they abstain from voting altogether in 2015 or will they return to the Liberal Democrats or vote for another party?

    The changes in 2015 vote intention among those people who voted Liberal Democrat in 2010 between the first (February-March) and second (May-June) BESIP survey show small increases for the Conservatives, UKIP and the Green Party.

    The worry for the Liberal Democrats is that so far the decline in undecided prior Liberal Democrat voters appears to be benefiting other parties."

    http://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-resources/where-if-anywhere-will-liberal-democrat-votes-go-in-the-2015-general-election/#.VDBu9L5h3R2

    The LibDems could end up with 8% and fewer than 10 seats, or 15% and perhaps 40.

    I find myself genuinely torn: on the one hand, they continue to register 6-10% in the polls and all the evidence is that their vote is soft; on the other, they've made a ton of gains in local by-elections recently, their local vote share has held up well where they have MPs (even in Portsmouth South), their MPs have by far the best 'net favourability' ratings from constituents, and the Ashcroft marginals poll shows them only having made a small net loss to the Conservative Party.

    Basically, I'm too chicken to play the LibDem seat market - but I'm prepared to bet on them losing a monumental number of deposits.
    The chances of the Lib Dems ending up with fewer than 10 seats are virtually nil. They will win 35-40 - even on a bad night they are extremely unlikely to drop below 30.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    From survation

    88% of those voting UKIP in the by-election would also vote for Reckless in next year’s general election 3% said they wouldn’t and 9% DK

    UKIP voters told us the reason for voting Reckless,was liking UKIP and their policies (70%) vs protest (18%) or liking Reckless (12%).


    Data Tables here:

    http://survation.com/rochester-strood-by-election-poll-survation-for-mail-on-sunday/

    Sample size 1012

    Assuming that the result is as shown in the poll, then that would make the GE a real nail-biter - Reckless would drop to 35.5%, and the Tories (assuming they got 75% of the 12% of Reckless switchers) would jump to 35.2%.
    Incumbency bonus, RCS?

    Somehow I suspect whoever wins in November (or whenever) will win in May.
    If the Conservatives win, then they'll hold in May.

    If UKIP win by 10% or more, they'll hold on in May.

    If UKIP win by a few percent thanks to Labourites tactically voting to damage Cameron, then I'd expect it to swing Blue again in May,
    Why wouldn't they vote tactically again in May, Robert?
    If you look at the history of the Alliance, and the LibDems, you see a c. 60% byelection retention rate, largely as tactical voters returned home at the general. I see no reason why it should be different for UKIP. If Mark Reckless was an excellent constituency MP I'd rate their chances in May higher. But he's not.
    Hmmm....you're assuming UKIP represents a similar phenomenon to the Alliance and LD surges then, Robert.

    Not sure that's an entirely reliable assumption. I'll think about it.





  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    HYUFD said:

    Peter But how many of those LDs will get elected given their present rating? Remaining LD voters prefer the Tories

    Should you use the plural? At some point we might need to use the singular.

    On the positive side, as long as the voter is known, we can contact him for every poll.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    rcs1000 said:

    LDs
    "A significant proportion (around 20%) of prior Liberal Democrat voters are now undecided. These undecided Liberal Democrats are the crucial group for the party – will they abstain from voting altogether in 2015 or will they return to the Liberal Democrats or vote for another party?

    The changes in 2015 vote intention among those people who voted Liberal Democrat in 2010 between the first (February-March) and second (May-June) BESIP survey show small increases for the Conservatives, UKIP and the Green Party.

    The worry for the Liberal Democrats is that so far the decline in undecided prior Liberal Democrat voters appears to be benefiting other parties."

    http://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-resources/where-if-anywhere-will-liberal-democrat-votes-go-in-the-2015-general-election/#.VDBu9L5h3R2

    The LibDems could end up with 8% and fewer than 10 seats, or 15% and perhaps 40.

    I find myself genuinely torn: on the one hand, they continue to register 6-10% in the polls and all the evidence is that their vote is soft; on the other, they've made a ton of gains in local by-elections recently, their local vote share has held up well where they have MPs (even in Portsmouth South), their MPs have by far the best 'net favourability' ratings from constituents, and the Ashcroft marginals poll shows them only having made a small net loss to the Conservative Party.

    Basically, I'm too chicken to play the LibDem seat market - but I'm prepared to bet on them losing a monumental number of deposits.
    The chances of the Lib Dems ending up with fewer than 10 seats are virtually nil. They will win 35-40 - even on a bad night they are extremely unlikely to drop below 30.
    Go on then, give me some odds and let me bet.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    rcs1000 said:

    LDs
    "A significant proportion (around 20%) of prior Liberal Democrat voters are now undecided. These undecided Liberal Democrats are the crucial group for the party – will they abstain from voting altogether in 2015 or will they return to the Liberal Democrats or vote for another party?

    The changes in 2015 vote intention among those people who voted Liberal Democrat in 2010 between the first (February-March) and second (May-June) BESIP survey show small increases for the Conservatives, UKIP and the Green Party.

    The worry for the Liberal Democrats is that so far the decline in undecided prior Liberal Democrat voters appears to be benefiting other parties."

    http://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-resources/where-if-anywhere-will-liberal-democrat-votes-go-in-the-2015-general-election/#.VDBu9L5h3R2

    The LibDems could end up with 8% and fewer than 10 seats, or 15% and perhaps 40.

    I find myself genuinely torn: on the one hand, they continue to register 6-10% in the polls and all the evidence is that their vote is soft; on the other, they've made a ton of gains in local by-elections recently, their local vote share has held up well where they have MPs (even in Portsmouth South), their MPs have by far the best 'net favourability' ratings from constituents, and the Ashcroft marginals poll shows them only having made a small net loss to the Conservative Party.

    Basically, I'm too chicken to play the LibDem seat market - but I'm prepared to bet on them losing a monumental number of deposits.
    The chances of the Lib Dems ending up with fewer than 10 seats are virtually nil. They will win 35-40 - even on a bad night they are extremely unlikely to drop below 30.
    They've lost 2/3 of their 2010 support.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    Another Dave Gone Girl is a Mystery Thriller starring Ben Affleck and Rosamund Pike about a woman who goes missing with her husband suspected of her murder, very cleverly builds the tension and some unexpected twists at the end
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    rcs1000 said:

    LDs
    "A significant proportion (around 20%) of prior Liberal Democrat voters are now undecided. These undecided Liberal Democrats are the crucial group for the party – will they abstain from voting altogether in 2015 or will they return to the Liberal Democrats or vote for another party?

    The changes in 2015 vote intention among those people who voted Liberal Democrat in 2010 between the first (February-March) and second (May-June) BESIP survey show small increases for the Conservatives, UKIP and the Green Party.

    The worry for the Liberal Democrats is that so far the decline in undecided prior Liberal Democrat voters appears to be benefiting other parties."

    http://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-resources/where-if-anywhere-will-liberal-democrat-votes-go-in-the-2015-general-election/#.VDBu9L5h3R2

    The LibDems could end up with 8% and fewer than 10 seats, or 15% and perhaps 40.

    I find myself genuinely torn: on the one hand, they continue to register 6-10% in the polls and all the evidence is that their vote is soft; on the other, they've made a ton of gains in local by-elections recently, their local vote share has held up well where they have MPs (even in Portsmouth South), their MPs have by far the best 'net favourability' ratings from constituents, and the Ashcroft marginals poll shows them only having made a small net loss to the Conservative Party.

    Basically, I'm too chicken to play the LibDem seat market - but I'm prepared to bet on them losing a monumental number of deposits.
    The chances of the Lib Dems ending up with fewer than 10 seats are virtually nil. They will win 35-40 - even on a bad night they are extremely unlikely to drop below 30.
    They've lost 2/3 of their 2010 support.
    Maybe even three quarters...

    That being said... I'm genuinely uncomfortable betting on anything other than deposit losses.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited October 2014
    I think Mr Carswell has a pretty good chance of hanging on in May again because of his personal vote. It's like that Indy MP in BGwent ages ago who kept his seat after leaving Labour.

    I'd be amazed if Mr Reckless - assuming he does scrape in - gets re-elected in May.

    Where I think Kippers miscalculated over the Tory Conf was that they didn't have a knock out blow. If you're going to take on a Party who are all together/experiencing a tribal circling of the wagons - you have to KO their confidence totally. The Kippers simply didn't have anywhere enough ammo.

    Carswell should've either done a Dick Dastardly on conf eve [but I don't think he'd stoop so low] or the Kippers needed a bunch of defectors in one go a la the Gang Of Four.

    They just didn't have the critical mass and have just pissed the Tories off in one huge go - when they were all together.
    fitalass said:

    This is a very poor poll for Mark Reckless and UKIP in a by-election where the Tory candidate has not yet been selected. The Conservative party are fired up and angry at this defection, and they are going to now throw the kitchen sink at this by-election on the back of a very successful Conference. Most pundits here have nailed on a comfortable Carsewell win almost from the moment he defected, but its going to be far more interesting to see if he will manage to hang onto any short term by-election win at the next GE after that. I am not so sure that Carsewell will win the seat a second time next May.

    I think that Reckless and UKIP have made the exact same tactical mistake that Gordon Brown and the Labour party did back in the Autumn of 2007 before the Conference season. Trying to derail and scupper a Conservative Party Conference back in 2007 didn't see the party imploding, quite the opposite, it brought unity and fired the party up. Cameron and Osborne also went onto deliver election defining speeches. And that is exactly what has happened this time around after UKIP's defection PR stunt, only both Cameron and Osborne upped their games from 2007 and delivered probable their best speeches yet to Conference as Leader and Chancellor.

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited October 2014
    That would also be the 2007 Autumn GE that was heavily briefed and Gordon Brown then bottled, supposedly because the polls showed he was going to win! So yes, George Osborne and David Cameron played a blinder in their 2007 GE speeches, that is also the one where Cameron chose to deliver his speech without notes, and managed to remember everything..... Ed Miliband just tried to do the same at the recent Labour Conference when he didn't have to, and he only managed to forget the most important issue, the economy! So not so clever!
    Pong said:

    fitalass said:

    This is a very poor poll for Mark Reckless and UKIP in a by-election where the Tory candidate has not yet been selected. The Conservative party are fired up and angry at this defection, and they are going to now throw the kitchen sink at this by-election on the back of a very successful Conference. Most pundits here have nailed on a comfortable Carsewell win almost from the moment he defected, but its going to be far more interesting to see if he will manage to hang onto any short term by-election win at the next GE after that. I am not so sure that Carsewell will win the seat a second time next May.

    I think that Reckless and UKIP have made the exact same tactical mistake that Gordon Brown and the Labour party did back in the Autumn of 2007 before the Conference season. Trying to derail and scupper a Conservative Party Conference back in 2007 didn't see the party imploding, quite the opposite, it brought unity and fired the party up. Cameron and Osborne also went onto deliver election defining speeches. And that is exactly what has happened this time around after UKIP's defection PR stunt, only both Cameron and Osborne upped their games from 2007 and delivered probable their best speeches yet to Conference as Leader and Chancellor.

    Wasn't the 2007 tory conference the £1m inheritance tax policy? It was misjugements like that that cost the tories a majority.

    Edit: Oh yes, Osborne was proposing to abolish stamp duty for first time buyers too, just before the market crashed - which would have encouraged a load of young people in immediate negative equity.

    Clever.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7021357.stm
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Peter But how many of those LDs will get elected given their present rating? Remaining LD voters prefer the Tories

    Should you use the plural? At some point we might need to use the singular.
    You should have the grammar already worked out.

    The LibDems won a solitary MEP in May under their much cherished PR.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    fitalass said:

    Totally off topic, but which series were you off to watch earlier Plato? Did you catch the Black list, the opener for the second series bodes well?

    Plato said:

    Ouch



    Robbie Gibb @RobbieGibb · 2h 2 hours ago

    EXCL: Just 36% of Lib Dem candidates are happy to use photos of Nick Clegg in their campaign literature #bbcsp/ComRes (2/5)

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

    Have you watched any Under The Dome? I've just finished the second season tonight.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    HYUFD said:

    Another Dave Gone Girl is a Mystery Thriller starring Ben Affleck and Rosamund Pike about a woman who goes missing with her husband suspected of her murder, very cleverly builds the tension and some unexpected twists at the end

    Thank you.

    Night everyone.

    http://youtu.be/iPUmE-tne5U
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited October 2014
    I thought it was supposed to be a rather dark thriller? I have not seen it yet, but the trailers look good.

    HYUFD said:

    AnotherDave Well Miliband is back at 1992 levels, it will be the Tory v UKIP tug of war which will determine whether Cameron has a mandate

    You can also add my 'Gone Girl' comments earlier to those on the previous thread

    What sort of film is this Gone Girl? Comedy? Action? Romance?
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Oops, you beat me to it.

    HYUFD said:

    Another Dave Gone Girl is a Mystery Thriller starring Ben Affleck and Rosamund Pike about a woman who goes missing with her husband suspected of her murder, very cleverly builds the tension and some unexpected twists at the end

    Thank you.

    Night everyone.

    http://youtu.be/iPUmE-tne5U
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LDs
    "A significant proportion (around 20%) of prior Liberal Democrat voters are now undecided. These undecided Liberal Democrats are the crucial group for the party – will they abstain from voting altogether in 2015 or will they return to the Liberal Democrats or vote for another party?

    The changes in 2015 vote intention among those people who voted Liberal Democrat in 2010 between the first (February-March) and second (May-June) BESIP survey show small increases for the Conservatives, UKIP and the Green Party.

    The worry for the Liberal Democrats is that so far the decline in undecided prior Liberal Democrat voters appears to be benefiting other parties."

    http://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-resources/where-if-anywhere-will-liberal-democrat-votes-go-in-the-2015-general-election/#.VDBu9L5h3R2

    The LibDems could end up with 8% and fewer than 10 seats, or 15% and perhaps 40.

    I find myself genuinely torn: on the one hand, they continue to register 6-10% in the polls and all the evidence is that their vote is soft; on the other, they've made a ton of gains in local by-elections recently, their local vote share has held up well where they have MPs (even in Portsmouth South), their MPs have by far the best 'net favourability' ratings from constituents, and the Ashcroft marginals poll shows them only having made a small net loss to the Conservative Party.

    Basically, I'm too chicken to play the LibDem seat market - but I'm prepared to bet on them losing a monumental number of deposits.
    The chances of the Lib Dems ending up with fewer than 10 seats are virtually nil. They will win 35-40 - even on a bad night they are extremely unlikely to drop below 30.
    Go on then, give me some odds and let me bet.
    Ladbrokes will give you 14/1 on Lib Dems getting 10 seats or less. I don't bet, but I do understand odds - and that is not good value. You can get 7/4 on 31-40 LD seats - that is good value. 41-50 should also be a little tempting at 7/1, since, although not a highly likely outcome, it's got to be better than a 12.5% chance.
  • rcs1000 said:

    LDs
    "A significant proportion (around 20%) of prior Liberal Democrat voters are now undecided. These undecided Liberal Democrats are the crucial group for the party – will they abstain from voting altogether in 2015 or will they return to the Liberal Democrats or vote for another party?

    The changes in 2015 vote intention among those people who voted Liberal Democrat in 2010 between the first (February-March) and second (May-June) BESIP survey show small increases for the Conservatives, UKIP and the Green Party.

    The worry for the Liberal Democrats is that so far the decline in undecided prior Liberal Democrat voters appears to be benefiting other parties."

    http://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-resources/where-if-anywhere-will-liberal-democrat-votes-go-in-the-2015-general-election/#.VDBu9L5h3R2

    The LibDems could end up with 8% and fewer than 10 seats, or 15% and perhaps 40.

    I find myself genuinely torn: on the one hand, they continue to register 6-10% in the polls and all the evidence is that their vote is soft; on the other, they've made a ton of gains in local by-elections recently, their local vote share has held up well where they have MPs (even in Portsmouth South), their MPs have by far the best 'net favourability' ratings from constituents, and the Ashcroft marginals poll shows them only having made a small net loss to the Conservative Party.

    Basically, I'm too chicken to play the LibDem seat market - but I'm prepared to bet on them losing a monumental number of deposits.
    The chances of the Lib Dems ending up with fewer than 10 seats are virtually nil. They will win 35-40 - even on a bad night they are extremely unlikely to drop below 30.
    They've lost 2/3 of their 2010 support.
    But are likely to keep 2/3 of their seats.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I've got access to US TV shows streaming. I liked The Blacklist, but I'd stick it in my Good Filler pile. I'll watch it for S2 but not dying to see each one. I love James Spader though.

    I'm rewatching S9 of Supernatural. Have done E1-5 this evening and have the other 18 to go. One of the poorest seasons IMO, I hated Human Castiel and all the plots that went nowhere/Angel Wars that fizzled out.

    Just caught up with The Good Wife S6 E1-2 - just brilliant as ever. Scandal E1-2 are just as silly entertainment. Revenge E1-2 is turning on its head. E1-2 Person of Interest is keeping me glued.

    I've Castle to do tomorrow, plus a bunch of others. Then I have to watch them all again to make sure I haven't missed anything. I tend to see every episode 2/3 before moving on/deleting them. If I like them - they stay until I run out of space.

    I'm thinking of investing in a 3Tr drive as I prefer to keep my favourites handy and off the boxset heap.
    fitalass said:

    Totally off topic, but which series were you off to watch earlier Plato? Did you catch the Black list, the opener for the second series bodes well?

    Plato said:

    Ouch



    Robbie Gibb @RobbieGibb · 2h 2 hours ago

    EXCL: Just 36% of Lib Dem candidates are happy to use photos of Nick Clegg in their campaign literature #bbcsp/ComRes (2/5)

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

  • manofkent2014manofkent2014 Posts: 1,543
    edited October 2014
    fitalass said:

    This is a very poor poll for Mark Reckless and UKIP in a by-election where the Tory candidate has not yet been selected. The Conservative party are fired up and angry at this defection, and they are going to now throw the kitchen sink at this by-election on the back of a very successful Conference. Most pundits here have nailed on a comfortable Carsewell win almost from the moment he defected, but its going to be far more interesting to see if he will manage to hang onto any short term by-election win at the next GE after that. I am not so sure that Carsewell will win the seat a second time next May.

    I think that Reckless and UKIP have made the exact same tactical mistake that Gordon Brown and the Labour party did back in the Autumn of 2007 before the Conference season. Trying to derail and scupper a Conservative Party Conference back in 2007 didn't see the party imploding, quite the opposite, it brought unity and fired the party up. Cameron and Osborne also went onto deliver election defining speeches. And that is exactly what has happened this time around after UKIP's defection PR stunt, only both Cameron and Osborne upped their games from 2007 and delivered probable their best speeches yet to Conference as Leader and Chancellor.

    Yes being 9 points ahead in a by election poll is such a disaster for UKIP. I imagine that Nigel Farage would want similar disasters in every seat they fight! After all its pretty commonplace to get a 29% swing from the government in a by election...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    edited October 2014
    rcs1000 Reminds me of this rather good cartoon today from the Telegraph on the LD's conference attendee
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/cartoon/?cartoon=11140476&cc=11137684
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    A bit of Americana for you -

    when you attend or watch on TV a football game here, about every ten yards or so around the edge of the field you will see someone facing the crowd, wearing a daglo vest which says something like 'Event Security" on the back. Their job is to keep the crowd off the field and keep an eye on them.

    #11 Ole Miss Rebels took down the mighty #1 Alabama Crimson Tide today. It's the first time that Ole Miss has ever beaten the number 1 ranked team. They are also now 5-0, for the first time since 1962.

    The inevitable happened and the crowd - pretty much all 75000 of them - rushed the field. You could clearly see the 'event security' folks helping people over the railing and onto the field.

    It was a good day for Mississippi - that happened in Oxford, while over in Starkville, MS State took down Texas A&M. ESPN's Collge Game Day was in Oxford, and SEC Nation was in Starkville.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    TBH, I am not a regular political punter outside the big elections. But I am currently just pig sick that I didn't follow my gut instinct to bet on the Tories winning the Reckless seat the minute Cameron finished delivering his Speech to Conference when the odds were far better. The last time I had such a strong vibe was when I heard how well Ed Miliband was going down a the TUC Conference before the last GE, I got a nice bet on him to be next Labour Leader at 20/1! But you cling tight to the same blanket Gordon Brown did back in 2007, he bottled that early GE because the polls told him he was going win.

    fitalass said:

    This is a very poor poll for Mark Reckless and UKIP in a by-election where the Tory candidate has not yet been selected. The Conservative party are fired up and angry at this defection, and they are going to now throw the kitchen sink at this by-election on the back of a very successful Conference. Most pundits here have nailed on a comfortable Carsewell win almost from the moment he defected, but its going to be far more interesting to see if he will manage to hang onto any short term by-election win at the next GE after that. I am not so sure that Carsewell will win the seat a second time next May.

    I think that Reckless and UKIP have made the exact same tactical mistake that Gordon Brown and the Labour party did back in the Autumn of 2007 before the Conference season. Trying to derail and scupper a Conservative Party Conference back in 2007 didn't see the party imploding, quite the opposite, it brought unity and fired the party up. Cameron and Osborne also went onto deliver election defining speeches. And that is exactly what has happened this time around after UKIP's defection PR stunt, only both Cameron and Osborne upped their games from 2007 and delivered probable their best speeches yet to Conference as Leader and Chancellor.

    Yes being 9 points ahead in a by election poll is such a disaster for UKIP. I imagine that Nigel Farage would want similar disasters in every seat they fight! After all its pretty commonplace to get a 29% swing from the government in a by election...
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    I loved Boston Legal, my oldest lad has just recommended Suits to me so I am going to give it a whirl. And I will also give Supernatural a go too.
    Plato said:

    I've got access to US TV shows streaming. I liked The Blacklist, but I'd stick it in my Good Filler pile. I'll watch it for S2 but not dying to see each one. I love James Spader though.

    I'm rewatching S9 of Supernatural. Have done E1-5 this evening and have the other 18 to go. One of the poorest seasons IMO, I hated Human Castiel and all the plots that went nowhere/Angel Wars that fizzled out.

    Just caught up with The Good Wife S6 E1-2 - just brilliant as ever. Scandal E1-2 are just as silly entertainment. Revenge E1-2 is turning on its head. E1-2 Person of Interest is keeping me glued.

    I've Castle to do tomorrow, plus a bunch of others. Then I have to watch them all again to make sure I haven't missed anything. I tend to see every episode 2/3 before moving on/deleting them. If I like them - they stay until I run out of space.

    I'm thinking of investing in a 3Tr drive as I prefer to keep my favourites handy and off the boxset heap.

    fitalass said:

    Totally off topic, but which series were you off to watch earlier Plato? Did you catch the Black list, the opener for the second series bodes well?

    Plato said:

    Ouch



    Robbie Gibb @RobbieGibb · 2h 2 hours ago

    EXCL: Just 36% of Lib Dem candidates are happy to use photos of Nick Clegg in their campaign literature #bbcsp/ComRes (2/5)

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    I think you're making the assumption that 'fired up' Tories throwing 'everything bar the kitchen sink' at something (or in this case someone) is a prospect that the electors of Rochester will enjoy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgrGXrO4AOU
    Plato said:

    I think Mr Carswell has a pretty good chance of hanging on in May again because of his personal vote. It's like that Indy MP in BGwent ages ago who kept his seat after leaving Labour.

    I'd be amazed if Mr Reckless - assuming he does scrape in - gets re-elected in May.

    Where I think Kippers miscalculated over the Tory Conf was that they didn't have a knock out blow. If you're going to take on a Party who are all together/experiencing a tribal circling of the wagons - you have to KO their confidence totally. The Kippers simply didn't have anywhere enough ammo.

    Carswell should've either done a Dick Dastardly on conf eve [but I don't think he'd stoop so low] or the Kippers needed a bunch of defectors in one go a la the Gang Of Four.

    They just didn't have the critical mass and have just pissed the Tories off in one huge go - when they were all together.

    fitalass said:

    This is a very poor poll for Mark Reckless and UKIP in a by-election where the Tory candidate has not yet been selected. The Conservative party are fired up and angry at this defection, and they are going to now throw the kitchen sink at this by-election on the back of a very successful Conference. Most pundits here have nailed on a comfortable Carsewell win almost from the moment he defected, but its going to be far more interesting to see if he will manage to hang onto any short term by-election win at the next GE after that. I am not so sure that Carsewell will win the seat a second time next May.

    I think that Reckless and UKIP have made the exact same tactical mistake that Gordon Brown and the Labour party did back in the Autumn of 2007 before the Conference season. Trying to derail and scupper a Conservative Party Conference back in 2007 didn't see the party imploding, quite the opposite, it brought unity and fired the party up. Cameron and Osborne also went onto deliver election defining speeches. And that is exactly what has happened this time around after UKIP's defection PR stunt, only both Cameron and Osborne upped their games from 2007 and delivered probable their best speeches yet to Conference as Leader and Chancellor.

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    I have not heard of this one, will look it up tho.
    GeoffM said:

    fitalass said:

    Totally off topic, but which series were you off to watch earlier Plato? Did you catch the Black list, the opener for the second series bodes well?

    Plato said:

    Ouch



    Robbie Gibb @RobbieGibb · 2h 2 hours ago

    EXCL: Just 36% of Lib Dem candidates are happy to use photos of Nick Clegg in their campaign literature #bbcsp/ComRes (2/5)

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

    Have you watched any Under The Dome? I've just finished the second season tonight.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Yougov is astonishing. Tories leading on everything bar the NHS, and even that is not far behind.

    Very smart move to shift Gove to Whip and put Morgan in education.

    And that Rochester by election is getting more interesting. I think further defectors will wait for the result, and also will be reluctant to do a Carswell as the clock ticks down on byelections.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    That's lovely. I still remain immensely impressed by the Ohio State Marching Band.

    youtube.com/watch?v=qhGB5Pd3ko8

    Tim_B said:

    A bit of Americana for you -

    when you attend or watch on TV a football game here, about every ten yards or so around the edge of the field you will see someone facing the crowd, wearing a daglo vest which says something like 'Event Security" on the back. Their job is to keep the crowd off the field and keep an eye on them.

    #11 Ole Miss Rebels took down the mighty #1 Alabama Crimson Tide today. It's the first time that Ole Miss has ever beaten the number 1 ranked team. They are also now 5-0, for the first time since 1962.

    The inevitable happened and the crowd - pretty much all 75000 of them - rushed the field. You could clearly see the 'event security' folks helping people over the railing and onto the field.

    It was a good day for Mississippi - that happened in Oxford, while over in Starkville, MS State took down Texas A&M. ESPN's Collge Game Day was in Oxford, and SEC Nation was in Starkville.

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

    Must be a small sample size + innocent face +
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I love Suits. The wardrobe budget is enormous and so elegant.

    Oh Boston Legal is my Go To on a wet Sunday - I know it almost word for word - Candice Bergen and William Shatner are so perfectly matched. James Spader's monologues super.

    Supernatural S1 is a bit hard work and shot in Black-O-Vision so it's hard to see what's going on. It really picks up in the second half of S1 - Skin is a brilliantly creepy episode. Then it's superb in S2/3/4/5. S6 is patchy, S7 changes a bit in tone - I love it, but some didn't. S8 is pretty good. Overall - it's score on IMDb of 8.7 is very fair. imdb.com/title/tt0460681/?ref_=nv_sr_2

    If you liked The X-Files - a load of the production team/directors were behind Supernatural. There's a hilarious spoof of The X-Files in an episode called Clap Your Hands If You Believe. Have a looksee here at the opening titles > https://youtube.com/watch?v=AN-Jj2SDcls
    fitalass said:

    I loved Boston Legal, my oldest lad has just recommended Suits to me so I am going to give it a whirl. And I will also give Supernatural a go too.

    Plato said:

    I've got access to US TV shows streaming. I liked The Blacklist, but I'd stick it in my Good Filler pile. I'll watch it for S2 but not dying to see each one. I love James Spader though.

    I'm rewatching S9 of Supernatural. Have done E1-5 this evening and have the other 18 to go. One of the poorest seasons IMO, I hated Human Castiel and all the plots that went nowhere/Angel Wars that fizzled out.

    Just caught up with The Good Wife S6 E1-2 - just brilliant as ever. Scandal E1-2 are just as silly entertainment. Revenge E1-2 is turning on its head. E1-2 Person of Interest is keeping me glued.

    I've Castle to do tomorrow, plus a bunch of others. Then I have to watch them all again to make sure I haven't missed anything. I tend to see every episode 2/3 before moving on/deleting them. If I like them - they stay until I run out of space.

    I'm thinking of investing in a 3Tr drive as I prefer to keep my favourites handy and off the boxset heap.

    fitalass said:

    Totally off topic, but which series were you off to watch earlier Plato? Did you catch the Black list, the opener for the second series bodes well?

    Plato said:

    Ouch



    Robbie Gibb @RobbieGibb · 2h 2 hours ago

    EXCL: Just 36% of Lib Dem candidates are happy to use photos of Nick Clegg in their campaign literature #bbcsp/ComRes (2/5)

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited October 2014
    My youngest son and his friends had a brilliant weekend in London last week when they attended the NFL game at Wembley. They all got into American football about two years ago, so I now have to add that to the normal footie, F1, golf and rugby coverage every weekend! Tonight at teatime, fitaloon arrived home and lifted the TV remote while I was watching a sports free programme to be be greeted with the words 'don't even think about it'!! He missed the first half of the Premier League game he wanted to watch, it could have been worse, if I had wanted to watch Strickly Come Dancing he would have missed the second half and the all important goal! :)
    Tim_B said:

    A bit of Americana for you -

    when you attend or watch on TV a football game here, about every ten yards or so around the edge of the field you will see someone facing the crowd, wearing a daglo vest which says something like 'Event Security" on the back. Their job is to keep the crowd off the field and keep an eye on them.

    #11 Ole Miss Rebels took down the mighty #1 Alabama Crimson Tide today. It's the first time that Ole Miss has ever beaten the number 1 ranked team. They are also now 5-0, for the first time since 1962.

    The inevitable happened and the crowd - pretty much all 75000 of them - rushed the field. You could clearly see the 'event security' folks helping people over the railing and onto the field.

    It was a good day for Mississippi - that happened in Oxford, while over in Starkville, MS State took down Texas A&M. ESPN's Collge Game Day was in Oxford, and SEC Nation was in Starkville.



  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    Another Dave, well worth a watch, night!
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    We are huge fans of Game of Thrones, and Vikings is really good too.
    Plato said:

    I love Suits. The wardrobe budget is enormous and so elegant.

    Oh Boston Legal is my Go To on a wet Sunday - I know it almost word for word - Candice Bergen and William Shatner are so perfectly matched. James Spader's monologues super.

    Supernatural S1 is a bit hard work and shot in Black-O-Vision so it's hard to see what's going on. It really picks up in the second half of S1 - Skin is a brilliantly creepy episode. Then it's superb in S2/3/4/5. S6 is patchy, S7 changes a bit in tone - I love it, but some didn't. S8 is pretty good. Overall - it's score on IMDb of 8.7 is very fair. imdb.com/title/tt0460681/?ref_=nv_sr_2

    If you liked The X-Files - a load of the production team/directors were behind Supernatural. There's a hilarious spoof of The X-Files in an episode called Clap Your Hands If You Believe. Have a looksee here at the opening titles > https://youtube.com/watch?v=AN-Jj2SDcls

    fitalass said:

    I loved Boston Legal, my oldest lad has just recommended Suits to me so I am going to give it a whirl. And I will also give Supernatural a go too.

    Plato said:

    I've got access to US TV shows streaming. I liked The Blacklist, but I'd stick it in my Good Filler pile. I'll watch it for S2 but not dying to see each one. I love James Spader though.

    I'm rewatching S9 of Supernatural. Have done E1-5 this evening and have the other 18 to go. One of the poorest seasons IMO, I hated Human Castiel and all the plots that went nowhere/Angel Wars that fizzled out.

    Just caught up with The Good Wife S6 E1-2 - just brilliant as ever. Scandal E1-2 are just as silly entertainment. Revenge E1-2 is turning on its head. E1-2 Person of Interest is keeping me glued.

    I've Castle to do tomorrow, plus a bunch of others. Then I have to watch them all again to make sure I haven't missed anything. I tend to see every episode 2/3 before moving on/deleting them. If I like them - they stay until I run out of space.

    I'm thinking of investing in a 3Tr drive as I prefer to keep my favourites handy and off the boxset heap.

    fitalass said:

    Totally off topic, but which series were you off to watch earlier Plato? Did you catch the Black list, the opener for the second series bodes well?

    Plato said:

    Ouch



    Robbie Gibb @RobbieGibb · 2h 2 hours ago

    EXCL: Just 36% of Lib Dem candidates are happy to use photos of Nick Clegg in their campaign literature #bbcsp/ComRes (2/5)

    ComRes seem to have done a poll of LDs.

    https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb

  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    fitalass said:

    My youngest son and his friends had a brilliant weekend in London last week when they attended the NFL game at Wembley. They all got into American football about two years ago, so I now have to add that to the normal footie, F1, golf and rugby coverage every weekend! Tonight at teatime, fitaloon arrived home and lifted the TV remote while I was watching a sports free programme to be be greeted with the words 'don't even think about it'!! He missed the first half of the Premier League game he wanted to watch, it could have been worse, if I had wanted to watch Strickly Come Dancing he would have missed the second half and the all important goal! :)

    Tim_B said:

    A bit of Americana for you -

    when you attend or watch on TV a football game here, about every ten yards or so around the edge of the field you will see someone facing the crowd, wearing a daglo vest which says something like 'Event Security" on the back. Their job is to keep the crowd off the field and keep an eye on them.

    #11 Ole Miss Rebels took down the mighty #1 Alabama Crimson Tide today. It's the first time that Ole Miss has ever beaten the number 1 ranked team. They are also now 5-0, for the first time since 1962.

    The inevitable happened and the crowd - pretty much all 75000 of them - rushed the field. You could clearly see the 'event security' folks helping people over the railing and onto the field.

    It was a good day for Mississippi - that happened in Oxford, while over in Starkville, MS State took down Texas A&M. ESPN's Collge Game Day was in Oxford, and SEC Nation was in Starkville.



    If they want to go back on Sunday November 9th at 6pm your time, they will get a chance to see America's Team - the Dallas Cowboys.

    They're playing the Jacksonvile Jaguars, who are angling to become the London NFL franchise.

    They sell the place out - admittedly by NFL standards it's a small stadium - and sell $1 million in merchanidise every game. Sarting next season there will be 4 games there every season.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited October 2014
    Plato said:

    That's lovely. I still remain immensely impressed by the Ohio State Marching Band.

    youtube.com/watch?v=qhGB5Pd3ko8



    Tim_B said:

    A bit of Americana for you -

    when you attend or watch on TV a football game here, about every ten yards or so around the edge of the field you will see someone facing the crowd, wearing a daglo vest which says something like 'Event Security" on the back. Their job is to keep the crowd off the field and keep an eye on them.

    #11 Ole Miss Rebels took down the mighty #1 Alabama Crimson Tide today. It's the first time that Ole Miss has ever beaten the number 1 ranked team. They are also now 5-0, for the first time since 1962.

    The inevitable happened and the crowd - pretty much all 75000 of them - rushed the field. You could clearly see the 'event security' folks helping people over the railing and onto the field.

    It was a good day for Mississippi - that happened in Oxford, while over in Starkville, MS State took down Texas A&M. ESPN's Collge Game Day was in Oxford, and SEC Nation was in Starkville.

    The bands are great -the 'dotting the I' in the script Ohio is usually awarded to a special someone - Jack Nicklaus has done it (he went to Ohio State). So are the cheerleaders. It's all part of the tradition, excitement and emotion of college football. It's amost impossible not to get caught up in it. The Alabama Million Dollar Band is also pretty good.

    The tailgating is fantastic. You arrive about 8am for a 3pm game. Everyone sets up their grills in the parking lot. You socialize with those around and swap food and drink - yes alcohol. It is common and usual to do this with the opposing team supporters.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    edited October 2014
    Tonight's yougov poll using UK polling report's swingometer gives seat totals of

    Labour 311, Tories 300, LDs 11, Others 10, NI 18
    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/swing-calculator
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited October 2014
    That sounds fantastic, but just spare a thought for me... Sunday's used to be my only Sports free night over a weekend until they got into the NFL. Before I only had to put up with the Super bowl once a year. Now I have to regularly cater for a bunch of 17 year olds who turn up to watch the NFL on our TV, and I have seen locusts leave more crumbs! And Aberdeen born fitaloon is still in shock after treating our youngest lad to the American football team shirt of his choice. :)
    Tim_B said:

    fitalass said:

    My youngest son and his friends had a brilliant weekend in London last week when they attended the NFL game at Wembley. They all got into American football about two years ago, so I now have to add that to the normal footie, F1, golf and rugby coverage every weekend! Tonight at teatime, fitaloon arrived home and lifted the TV remote while I was watching a sports free programme to be be greeted with the words 'don't even think about it'!! He missed the first half of the Premier League game he wanted to watch, it could have been worse, if I had wanted to watch Strickly Come Dancing he would have missed the second half and the all important goal! :)

    Tim_B said:

    A bit of Americana for you -

    when you attend or watch on TV a football game here, about every ten yards or so around the edge of the field you will see someone facing the crowd, wearing a daglo vest which says something like 'Event Security" on the back. Their job is to keep the crowd off the field and keep an eye on them.

    #11 Ole Miss Rebels took down the mighty #1 Alabama Crimson Tide today. It's the first time that Ole Miss has ever beaten the number 1 ranked team. They are also now 5-0, for the first time since 1962.

    The inevitable happened and the crowd - pretty much all 75000 of them - rushed the field. You could clearly see the 'event security' folks helping people over the railing and onto the field.

    It was a good day for Mississippi - that happened in Oxford, while over in Starkville, MS State took down Texas A&M. ESPN's Collge Game Day was in Oxford, and SEC Nation was in Starkville.

    If they want to go back on Sunday November 9th at 6pm your time, they will get a chance to see America's Team - the Dallas Cowboys.

    They're playing the Jacksonvile Jaguars, who are angling to become the London NFL franchise.

    They sell the place out - admittedly by NFL standards it's a small stadium - and sell $1 million in merchanidise every game. Sarting next season there will be 4 games there every season.

This discussion has been closed.