I accept that I am probably a rarity amongst Tory supporters in that I really don't approve of tax cuts, at least whilst we are in deficit and probably even when we are not given that we are up to our eyes in debt.
I also don't approve of tax cuts being combined with real term cuts in benefits for the least well off of our society. It strikes me as immoral.
I of course accept that some tax cuts can be self financing in that they can encourage growth but the history of the west is littered with the deluded on both sides of the political fence who thought either tax cuts or higher spending were going to be self financing. As a general rule they are not.
So however clever and polished the presentation was today (I haven't seen it yet) I for one do not like the underlying message. I preferred the "we are all in it together" message to the "more income makes the rich work harder and less income makes the poor work harder" message.
It is a minority view I accept and Labour give no credible alternative. None whatsoever.
I'm sure on the last thread his Rabbit out of a hat morphed via a Giant Rabbit to a Kangaroo. Now the Kangaroo is holding court. Is this the policy post ECHR, Kangaroos?
Nadine Dorries said yesterday that she wasn't going to be next to defect. I suppose with Mr Cash and Mr Banks having defected since, that would still be literally true.
In May you could go to bed with Nigel Farage and end up with Ed Miliband
So lazy. And unoriginal.
I thought it was very good actually.
He needs to build on the soundbite and spell it out more clearly. Lots of voters are stupid. He should say "if you vote UKIP, you are helping Labour win seats off the Tories, and there is only one outcome - Ed Miliband in Number 10. If you vote UKIP, then Ed Miliband will become Prime Minister, it is as simple as that"
The beauty of this is that it might make a few stupid Labour voters vote UKIP and help the Tories hold/gain some Tory/Labour marginals....
I accept that I am probably a rarity amongst Tory supporters in that I really don't approve of tax cuts, at least whilst we are in deficit and probably even when we are not given that we are up to our eyes in debt.
I also don't approve of tax cuts being combined with real term cuts in benefits for the least well off of our society. It strikes me as immoral.
I of course accept that some tax cuts can be self financing in that they can encourage growth but the history of the west is littered with the deluded on both sides of the political fence who thought either tax cuts or higher spending were going to be self financing. As a general rule they are not.
So however clever and polished the presentation was today (I haven't seen it yet) I for one do not like the underlying message. I preferred the "we are all in it together" message to the "more income makes the rich work harder and less income makes the poor work harder" message.
It is a minority view I accept and Labour give no credible alternative. None whatsoever.
It's bizarre that your sensible point of view is not represented at all in the mainstream political debate that has become almost entirely detached from reality.
In May you could go to bed with Nigel Farage and end up with Ed Miliband
So lazy. And unoriginal.
I thought it was very good actually.
He needs to build on the soundbite and spell it out more clearly. Lots of voters are stupid. He should say "if you vote UKIP, you are helping Labour win seats off the Tories, and there is only one outcome - Ed Miliband in Number 10. If you vote UKIP, then Ed Miliband will become Prime Minister, it is as simple as that"
The beauty of this is that it might make a few stupid Labour voters vote UKIP and help the Tories hold/gain some Tory/Labour marginals....
Nowt doing from the Fruitcakes at Five then?
Cameron 'borrowed' a Peter Mandelson joke. As ever with Cameron he cannot hide his adoration for all things Blair.
I accept that I am probably a rarity amongst Tory supporters in that I really don't approve of tax cuts, at least whilst we are in deficit and probably even when we are not given that we are up to our eyes in debt.
I also don't approve of tax cuts being combined with real term cuts in benefits for the least well off of our society. It strikes me as immoral.
I of course accept that some tax cuts can be self financing in that they can encourage growth but the history of the west is littered with the deluded on both sides of the political fence who thought either tax cuts or higher spending were going to be self financing. As a general rule they are not.
So however clever and polished the presentation was today (I haven't seen it yet) I for one do not like the underlying message. I preferred the "we are all in it together" message to the "more income makes the rich work harder and less income makes the poor work harder" message.
It is a minority view I accept and Labour give no credible alternative. None whatsoever.
Hear, hear. Great post. All the way down to the final line.
I'm sure on the last thread his Rabbit out of a hat morphed via a Giant Rabbit to a Kangaroo. Now the Kangaroo is holding court. Is this the policy post ECHR, Kangaroos?
Matthew Goodwin @GoodwinMJ · 25m 25 minutes ago Thought re #Ukip event. MP would be devastating for Cons but big fish donor would be more significant for Ukip in terms of 2015 impact.
I accept that I am probably a rarity amongst Tory supporters in that I really don't approve of tax cuts, at least whilst we are in deficit and probably even when we are not given that we are up to our eyes in debt.
I also don't approve of tax cuts being combined with real term cuts in benefits for the least well off of our society. It strikes me as immoral.
I of course accept that some tax cuts can be self financing in that they can encourage growth but the history of the west is littered with the deluded on both sides of the political fence who thought either tax cuts or higher spending were going to be self financing. As a general rule they are not.
So however clever and polished the presentation was today (I haven't seen it yet) I for one do not like the underlying message. I preferred the "we are all in it together" message to the "more income makes the rich work harder and less income makes the poor work harder" message.
It is a minority view I accept and Labour give no credible alternative. None whatsoever.
We could always *stop wasting money on stuff* as an alternative to more debt and more borrowing.
Balance the books by cutting back a bit on areas that government has no need to be involved in. And real cuts, not the pretendy fancy balance sheet nonsense of the past few years.
@JananGanesh: I once had to read a technical document explaining the terms of my Pearson pension. That was more interesting than this Ukip announcement.
I don't want to poop the party even more than they've pooped it themselves, but surely holding a big press conference about a large donation, from a chap like this, is a bit counter-productive, isn't it? Especially if you're trying to present yourselves as the anti-establishment, WWC-friendly, party-of-the-little-guy.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to bank the cheque quietly?
I accept that I am probably a rarity amongst Tory supporters in that I really don't approve of tax cuts, at least whilst we are in deficit and probably even when we are not given that we are up to our eyes in debt.
I also don't approve of tax cuts being combined with real term cuts in benefits for the least well off of our society. It strikes me as immoral.
I of course accept that some tax cuts can be self financing in that they can encourage growth but the history of the west is littered with the deluded on both sides of the political fence who thought either tax cuts or higher spending were going to be self financing. As a general rule they are not.
So however clever and polished the presentation was today (I haven't seen it yet) I for one do not like the underlying message. I preferred the "we are all in it together" message to the "more income makes the rich work harder and less income makes the poor work harder" message.
It is a minority view I accept and Labour give no credible alternative. None whatsoever.
Hear, hear. Great post. All the way down to the final line.
Thanks SO. I begin to understand the dilemma that you faced at the last election. When will any of our politicians take our problems seriously (and will we vote for them if they do)?
From Dan's article - I was really surprised that Mr Cameron went so personal - normally he just ignores Labour. I'm very pleased that he's dealt with them head on for a change. Gloves off time.
Labour’s strategy had been to try to bridge the chasm between the two parties on economic credibility by arguing that the macroeconomy could not be divorced from the day-to-day costs being born by ordinary families. Cameron turned that strategy on its head. You can only deliver for ordinary people, he said, if you get the management of the macroeconomy right.
He then proceeded to drive a coach and horses through Labour’s cost of living narrative, by unveiling not one but two dramatic tax cuts. The bottom rate income tax threshold would be raised to £12,500, he announced, while the threshold on the 40p rate would be raised to £50,000.
This is a bribe - but well, it's 7 months before a GE, and they always get handed out. We can tut-tut about them - but they work. A vote is usually a perfectly rational self-interested one.
EDIT to add this was my favourite bit of all. Pragmatic stuff.
With every fresh passage he pumped another bullet into the warm corpse of Ed Miliband’s New Politics. “Other parties preach to you about a Brave New World. We understand you have to start with the real world and make it better."
@JananGanesh: I once had to read a technical document explaining the terms of my Pearson pension. That was more interesting than this Ukip announcement.
And once I had to watch paint dry and that was more interesting than Janan Ganesh. Twitter really is catnip for narcissists
Tories deny latest Ukip defector Arron Banks once donated £250,000 Conservatives say true figure given by businessman who has now joined Ukip is closer to £25,000
Yes, calling me blind repeatedly will win you an argument you have long since lost.
You might want to read DavidL's post below.
You might want to read David Cameron's speech. Try not to skip over the bits - the lengthy bits - that talk about the critical importance of the deficit and Labour's failures there.
Tories deny latest Ukip defector Arron Banks once donated £250,000 Conservatives say true figure given by businessman who has now joined Ukip is closer to £25,000
Daniel Bond @DanBond1 4m4 minutes ago @paulwaugh Farage said the money would help with 'four' upcoming by-elections. There are only 3 so far. Must know something we don't
Matthew Goodwin @GoodwinMJ · 25m 25 minutes ago Thought re #Ukip event. MP would be devastating for Cons but big fish donor would be more significant for Ukip in terms of 2015 impact.
I don't want to poop the party even more than they've pooped it themselves, but surely holding a big press conference about a large donation, from a chap like this, is a bit counter-productive, isn't it? Especially if you're trying to present yourselves as the anti-establishment, WWC-friendly, party-of-the-little-guy.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to bank the cheque quietly?
The people's party does appear to be largely bankrolled by a small coterie of filthy rich City and establishment figures with flash houses.
Daniel Bond @DanBond1 4m4 minutes ago @paulwaugh Farage said the money would help with 'four' upcoming by-elections. There are only 3 so far. Must know something we don't
Stuart Wheeler claims there are two more MPs ready to defect by Christmas
I accept that I am probably a rarity amongst Tory supporters in that I really don't approve of tax cuts, at least whilst we are in deficit and probably even when we are not given that we are up to our eyes in debt.
I also don't approve of tax cuts being combined with real term cuts in benefits for the least well off of our society. It strikes me as immoral.
I of course accept that some tax cuts can be self financing in that they can encourage growth but the history of the west is littered with the deluded on both sides of the political fence who thought either tax cuts or higher spending were going to be self financing. As a general rule they are not.
So however clever and polished the presentation was today (I haven't seen it yet) I for one do not like the underlying message. I preferred the "we are all in it together" message to the "more income makes the rich work harder and less income makes the poor work harder" message.
It is a minority view I accept and Labour give no credible alternative. None whatsoever.
Hear, hear. Great post. All the way down to the final line.
Thanks SO. I begin to understand the dilemma that you faced at the last election. When will any of our politicians take our problems seriously (and will we vote for them if they do)?
Osborne on Monday said priotity is getting the deficit down . Cameron today was Spend Spend Spend . Deficit ? What deficit ?
I accept that I am probably a rarity amongst Tory supporters in that I really don't approve of tax cuts, at least whilst we are in deficit and probably even when we are not given that we are up to our eyes in debt.
I also don't approve of tax cuts being combined with real term cuts in benefits for the least well off of our society. It strikes me as immoral.
I of course accept that some tax cuts can be self financing in that they can encourage growth but the history of the west is littered with the deluded on both sides of the political fence who thought either tax cuts or higher spending were going to be self financing. As a general rule they are not.
So however clever and polished the presentation was today (I haven't seen it yet) I for one do not like the underlying message. I preferred the "we are all in it together" message to the "more income makes the rich work harder and less income makes the poor work harder" message.
It is a minority view I accept and Labour give no credible alternative. None whatsoever.
We could always *stop wasting money on stuff* as an alternative to more debt and more borrowing.
Balance the books by cutting back a bit on areas that government has no need to be involved in. And real cuts, not the pretendy fancy balance sheet nonsense of the past few years.
I think this government has done well in terms of cutting waste. The fact that there was so much to cut is a terrible indictment of the last government. By the election there will be approximately 1,000,000 fewer people working for the public sector. The effect on services appears to have been pretty marginal at worst. Truly shocking. And unforgiveable. We all worked for the money that paid those salaries.
But if we cut waste by another £20bn (highly optimistic) we still have an £80bn deficit. This can only be cut by hurting the poor or taxing the rich. I think we need to do both but a lot more of the latter than the former.
@wallaceme: Re those previous RTs - as Gordon Brown found out from the election that never was, wasting the lobby's time/good will is unwise. #UKIP
Gordon Brown kept the lobby dancing around like fools for weeks and then bottled it. Farage had a big announcement (in UKIP's terms it is). Media hysteria is hardly his fault. If you read the Guardian piece linked below and the Bryant tweet it alludes to it being a larger donation. Nothing else.
Sometimes the media need to get a grip. They've let their imagination run away with them
Daniel Bond @DanBond1 4m4 minutes ago @paulwaugh Farage said the money would help with 'four' upcoming by-elections. There are only 3 so far. Must know something we don't
4 might be the PCC election in Rotherham/Yorkshire.
Soup kitchens have never been so active so our PM offers tax cuts for those earning over £41,750 a year. If I hadn't just finished lunch in a restaurant in Cap Ferrat sitting next to a poodle I'd think Tory England was just a bad dream.
I accept that I am probably a rarity amongst Tory supporters in that I really don't approve of tax cuts, at least whilst we are in deficit and probably even when we are not given that we are up to our eyes in debt.
I also don't approve of tax cuts being combined with real term cuts in benefits for the least well off of our society. It strikes me as immoral.
I of course accept that some tax cuts can be self financing in that they can encourage growth but the history of the west is littered with the deluded on both sides of the political fence who thought either tax cuts or higher spending were going to be self financing. As a general rule they are not.
So however clever and polished the presentation was today (I haven't seen it yet) I for one do not like the underlying message. I preferred the "we are all in it together" message to the "more income makes the rich work harder and less income makes the poor work harder" message.
It is a minority view I accept and Labour give no credible alternative. None whatsoever.
Hear, hear. Great post. All the way down to the final line.
Thanks SO. I begin to understand the dilemma that you faced at the last election. When will any of our politicians take our problems seriously (and will we vote for them if they do)?
Osborne on Monday said priotity is getting the deficit down . Cameron today was Spend Spend Spend . Deficit ? What deficit ?
I'm not sure how a tax cut at rates barely above inflation is a promise of increased spending? It might be fall in revenue, but not increased spending. Why don't you read some of this:
Stuart Wheeler claims there are two more MPs ready to defect by Christmas
Waiting to see how it goes, eh?
Looks a bit cowardly.
On the contrary. How do you ensure you keep a smaller party in the news in the run up to an election that will be dominated by coverage of the establishment parties in an ideal world. By periodically having defections and then by elections. UKIP are ensuring UKIP stay in the news and that is very smart politics from their perspective. If they pull it off it will be an astounding feat. Not only that its draining resources from the other party's war chests and it might well provide UKIP's first elected representative.
If inflation stays low and maybe goes negative, Conservative pledges to increase basic rate and higher rate tax allowances will have to be dropped if the deficit is not to increase back beyond £100bn again.
He can use the £1m to compensate pb-ers for the crushing disappointment at the lack of substance to this announcement.
Will pay for a lot of purple vans with loudhailers on the top.
What a flop.
Planes trailing banners. ''Mr Banks is married to Ekaterina Paderina, a Russian national whose name was linked to the disgraced MP Mike Hancock, who resigned the Lib Dem whip last year. '' '(The Times) Its good of UKIP to welcome donations from the husband of someone who came to the UK on a student visa in 1998 - and stayed, thanks to a first marriage that lasted 3 months. We should be pleased that the tories cut the bogus students scam.
I accept that I am probably a rarity amongst Tory supporters in that I really don't approve of tax cuts, at least whilst we are in deficit and probably even when we are not given that we are up to our eyes in debt.
...
I of course accept that some tax cuts can be self financing in that they can encourage growth but the history of the west is littered with the deluded on both sides of the political fence who thought either tax cuts or higher spending were going to be self financing. As a general rule they are not.
So however clever and polished the presentation was today (I haven't seen it yet) I for one do not like the underlying message. I preferred the "we are all in it together" message to the "more income makes the rich work harder and less income makes the poor work harder" message.
It is a minority view I accept and Labour give no credible alternative. None whatsoever.
We could always *stop wasting money on stuff* as an alternative to more debt and more borrowing.
Balance the books by cutting back a bit on areas that government has no need to be involved in. And real cuts, not the pretendy fancy balance sheet nonsense of the past few years.
I think this government has done well in terms of cutting waste. The fact that there was so much to cut is a terrible indictment of the last government. By the election there will be approximately 1,000,000 fewer people working for the public sector. The effect on services appears to have been pretty marginal at worst. Truly shocking. And unforgiveable. We all worked for the money that paid those salaries.
But if we cut waste by another £20bn (highly optimistic) we still have an £80bn deficit. This can only be cut by hurting the poor or taxing the rich. I think we need to do both but a lot more of the latter than the former.
The deficit has two components. Structural and cyclical. Structural is spending we cannot expect ever to recover through revenue. Cyclical is that covered by the economic cycle and can be expected to recover. The govt is actually 10 billion ahead of its 2010 target for its spending plans. SO the 80 billion is not all to be met from cuts. ''In fact, public spending is coming in around £10bn a year lower than the chancellor intended in his June 2010 emergency budget, partly as a result of additional measures to cut spending and partly because departments have underspent. Spending is down in real terms, and some departments and much of local government have faced very big cuts. Public sector employment has fallen by more than 7%, excluding classification changes.'' http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002049.html#more
The last sentence is banished from the UKIP mantra.
Comments
http://www.dudleynews.co.uk/news/11507129._Bullied__Dudley_UKIP_leader_quits_party_amid_claimes_of_a_kangaroo_court/
It's all your fault UKIP
I also don't approve of tax cuts being combined with real term cuts in benefits for the least well off of our society. It strikes me as immoral.
I of course accept that some tax cuts can be self financing in that they can encourage growth but the history of the west is littered with the deluded on both sides of the political fence who thought either tax cuts or higher spending were going to be self financing. As a general rule they are not.
So however clever and polished the presentation was today (I haven't seen it yet) I for one do not like the underlying message. I preferred the "we are all in it together" message to the "more income makes the rich work harder and less income makes the poor work harder" message.
It is a minority view I accept and Labour give no credible alternative. None whatsoever.
I'm sure on the last thread his Rabbit out of a hat morphed via a Giant Rabbit to a Kangaroo. Now the Kangaroo is holding court. Is this the policy post ECHR, Kangaroos?
Ed Miliband is toast. Only Nigel Farage can stop David Cameron now
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100288415/ed-miliband-is-toast-only-nigel-farage-can-stop-david-cameron-now/
Must be a defection
http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/10/1/1412177812143/d138263b-5464-4a78-bca2-26d31484468a-620x372.jpeg
Is Nigel in the bed?
The beauty of this is that it might make a few stupid Labour voters vote UKIP and help the Tories hold/gain some Tory/Labour marginals....
Nowt doing from the Fruitcakes at Five then?
Con Maj nailed on!
Kim Philby defects to Ukip.
After this mornings let-down I'm just hoping it's someone I've actually heard of....
Heads to Google
http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2014/oct/01/below-the-poverty-line-slum-britain-in-the-1960s-in-pictures
a sad lol
but still a lol
£1 Million donation
All we need now is some Rolf Harris.
What did Hague say then?
UK legalises music, film and e-book back-ups
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29448058
What a flop.
Matthew Goodwin @GoodwinMJ · 25m 25 minutes ago
Thought re #Ukip event. MP would be devastating for Cons but big fish donor would be more significant for Ukip in terms of 2015 impact.
Balance the books by cutting back a bit on areas that government has no need to be involved in. And real cuts, not the pretendy fancy balance sheet nonsense of the past few years.
Perhaps UKIP could stop taking the EU allowance money now?
Harry Potter author JK Rowling gives £1 million to Labour
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/3021309/Harry-Potter-author-JK-Rowling-gives-1-million-to-Labour.html
Wouldn't it have made more sense to bank the cheque quietly?
Yes, calling me blind repeatedly will win you an argument you have long since lost.
You might want to read DavidL's post below.
EDIT to add this was my favourite bit of all. Pragmatic stuff.
If you think that, you can back UKIP+ Conservatives at 1/9 on Betfair
Tories deny latest Ukip defector Arron Banks once donated £250,000
Conservatives say true figure given by businessman who has now joined Ukip is closer to £25,000
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/01/tories-ukip-defector-arron-banks-donation
AGAIN!!!!
@paulwaugh Farage said the money would help with 'four' upcoming by-elections. There are only 3 so far. Must know something we don't
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/political-parties-campaigning-and-donations/political-parties-annual-accounts/details-of-accounts
But if we cut waste by another £20bn (highly optimistic) we still have an £80bn deficit. This can only be cut by hurting the poor or taxing the rich. I think we need to do both but a lot more of the latter than the former.
Looks a bit cowardly.
Sometimes the media need to get a grip. They've let their imagination run away with them
http://www.investopedia.com/dictionary
''Mr Banks is married to Ekaterina Paderina, a Russian national whose name was linked to the disgraced MP Mike Hancock, who resigned the Lib Dem whip last year. ''
'(The Times)
Its good of UKIP to welcome donations from the husband of someone who came to the UK on a student visa in 1998 - and stayed, thanks to a first marriage that lasted 3 months. We should be pleased that the tories cut the bogus students scam.
Structural and cyclical.
Structural is spending we cannot expect ever to recover through revenue. Cyclical is that covered by the economic cycle and can be expected to recover.
The govt is actually 10 billion ahead of its 2010 target for its spending plans. SO the 80 billion is not all to be met from cuts.
''In fact, public spending is coming in around £10bn a year lower than the chancellor intended in his June 2010 emergency budget, partly as a result of additional measures to cut spending and partly because departments have underspent. Spending is down in real terms, and some departments and much of local government have faced very big cuts. Public sector employment has fallen by more than 7%, excluding classification changes.''
http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002049.html#more
The last sentence is banished from the UKIP mantra.