Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As Dave’s big speech begins – Rumour has it the third defec

13

Comments

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    rcs1000 said:

    Is it true that Cameron has said we'll be returning to imperial units of measurement? If so, he's lost my vote.

    I heard that second-hand. It seems to be a stupid idea, but I don't know what was actually said.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    The UKIP 2010 manifesto promises a return to Imperial measurements. Please somebody tell me that's not going to be in 2015 too.

    So Cameron has read UKIP's 2010 manifesto (the one not even Farage read) and decided to make it government policy.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Oliver_PB said:

    Wait a second, is Cameron's big policy announcement was a tax cut totalling £810 for those earning over £50k/yr (the top ~15% of earners)? Wow.

    As well as being classic conservative it invites lefties to be outraged at supporting 'the rich' and then crying into their milk when the squeezed middle desert them for a party that is proposing supportive policies, not calling them 'rich'
  • Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is it true that Cameron has said we'll be returning to imperial units of measurement? If so, he's lost my vote.

    I heard that second-hand. It seems to be a stupid idea, but I don't know what was actually said.
    oh c'mon it was in answer to an obtuse question put by Evan Davis on Newsnight about whether Cameron thinks in terms of imperial measures or metric ones. As if he is going to change it
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @janemerrick23: How is Nick Clegg going to top that? Scrapping all taxes? A GP to pop round if you have a sniffle? An owl for every hardworking parent?
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    edited October 2014
    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is it true that Cameron has said we'll be returning to imperial units of measurement? If so, he's lost my vote.

    I heard that second-hand. It seems to be a stupid idea, but I don't know what was actually said.
    Hardly a policy platform.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/30/david-cameron-schools-should-teach-mainly-in-imperial-measurements

    A loose comment compared to what would require a huge amount of EU reform not to mention industry support to achieve.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    Also, this is a huge chunk of red meat to throw to his party and the UKIP defectors. They were ravenous, so I expect it'll be wolfed down now.

    Despite my reservations about Cameron, I'll now definitely be voting Conservative in the election. There's a huge gap in blue water between Miliband and Cameron that's developed over the past fortnight.

    I'm still not happy ( at all) about defence, immigration, Europe, civil liberties, fox hunting ban, or the 'moderniser' attitude, though. It's been a close call. I could have UKIP'ed, and still might in future.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    rcs1000 said:

    The UKIP 2010 manifesto promises a return to Imperial measurements. Please somebody tell me that's not going to be in 2015 too.

    I think that a good working assumption is that anything which was in the 2010 UKIP manifesto definitely won't be in the 2015 manifesto.
    Well, since the UKIP Handbag Tax is doing the Hokey Cokey every other day, who knows what might be in it?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    Cast Iron Cammie! What could possibly go wrong?

    "Conservative Chief Whip Michael Gove tells Andrew Neil that he is not going to say "what is in each progressive Budget", but that the promises made by David Cameron in his speech will be fulfilled by 2020".
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-29439641

    In the fullness of time, at the appropriate juncture.

    OK, so they will wait until people forget about the pledges and then they will forget them too. Classic government promises.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited October 2014

    rcs1000 said:

    Is it true that Cameron has said we'll be returning to imperial units of measurement? If so, he's lost my vote.

    I thought you were joking, but no:
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/30/david-cameron-schools-should-teach-mainly-in-imperial-measurements

    Hang on I've got a ten bob note somewhere.
    That's so dumb I don't know where to start. We've been educating children in the metric system for 30 years at least. Probably more.

    It's so dumb I'm not going to believe it's true until we get a few more sources and confirmation from CCHQ.

    EDIT: What RCS said just before me: spot on.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    OK. I've calmed down now.
  • Robert
    We already use imperial. Last time I looked all road signs were in imperial and people give their heights in feet and inches.
  • Anorak said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is it true that Cameron has said we'll be returning to imperial units of measurement? If so, he's lost my vote.

    I thought you were joking, but no:
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/30/david-cameron-schools-should-teach-mainly-in-imperial-measurements

    Hang on I've got a ten bob note somewhere.
    That's so dumb I don't know where to start. We've been educating children in the metric system for 30 years at least. Probably more.

    It's so dumb I'm not going to believe it's true until we get a few more sources and confirmation from CCHQ.
    It's an interesting* article by the Guardian, that.

  • hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    No wonder Dominic Grieve went. He does not support withdrawing from ECHR and replacing with a British bill of rights. As I believe this means leaving the EU or them accepting such a change, it is now more likely than not that the Tories would back leaving the EU.

    So people who vote Tory in 2015 should be aware of the direction that Cameron is taking them in.
  • Also I don't recall ordering half a litre of beer in the pub
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is it true that Cameron has said we'll be returning to imperial units of measurement? If so, he's lost my vote.

    If it's UKIP policy he'll do it, however i'm not sure it is UKIP policy.
    It would be equivalent to saying: we want to make life especially hard for Brits who want to become scientists or engineers.

    But I guess it wouldn't affect those who want to get degrees in Media Studies.
    I'm an engineer, and all my A-levels are in science, and am very comfortable using imperial measurements. Most of us are extremely comfortable doing calculations and conversions.

    If we weren't, we couldn't qualify or do our jobs. It happens all the time.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Scott_P said:

    @janemerrick23: How is Nick Clegg going to top that? Scrapping all taxes? A GP to pop round if you have a sniffle? An owl for every hardworking parent?

    Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    What would the 40% threshold be by now if it had been indexed since labour stopped indexing it?

    And what would it be in 2020 assuming starting from that number and adding 2-3% a year?

    My guess is around £50K if not higher

    Interesting question. In the 2009-10 tax year the 40p rate increased to £43,875 from £40,835, which looks like a larger increase than indexation to me.

    Since then the threshold has been reduced in order to reduce the cost of increasing the personal allowance. The September rates of CPI inflation since then have been 3%, 5.2%, 2.2% and 2.7%, and so indexation would have increased the 40p threshold to, um, £49,899 for the 2014-2015 tax year.

    If we add in August's rate of 1.5% for this year and assume 2% for all subsequent years, then it would imply that the 2019-2020 40p threshold would have been £54,822 with indexation.

    But then we know Brown and Darling couldn't afford the generous tax thresholds that they bequeathed to the Coalition, because they were running a huge budget deficit.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    I think it nice to be familiar with both. Obviously, being interested in WW2 battleships and bombers from an early age helps.

    Therefore, without the need of a calculator, I know that 16 inches is 406 millimetres, and a 500 lb bomb weighs 227 kilograms :)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    Robert
    We already use imperial. Last time I looked all road signs were in imperial and people give their heights in feet and inches.

    Yes, but science and engineering is entirely taught in centigrade, meters, litres, etc.

    And there's a very good reason for that.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Robert
    We already use imperial. Last time I looked all road signs were in imperial and people give their heights in feet and inches.

    Yes, but science and engineering is entirely taught in centigrade, meters, litres, etc.

    And there's a very good reason for that.
    Metres, this side of the Pond :)
  • rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is it true that Cameron has said we'll be returning to imperial units of measurement? If so, he's lost my vote.

    If it's UKIP policy he'll do it, however i'm not sure it is UKIP policy.
    It would be equivalent to saying: we want to make life especially hard for Brits who want to become scientists or engineers.

    But I guess it wouldn't affect those who want to get degrees in Media Studies.
    I wonder how all those US scientists and engineers manage in a country that still uses Imperial measurements? Could it possibly be that being forced to do calculations in something other than multiples of 10 actually helps people do mental arithmetic and be more flexible in their thinking?

    I do wonder how the most successful engineering and science based industry on earth survives since it is almost entirely run in Imperial units.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    I like imperial measures. They're pleasingly bonkers.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    edited October 2014

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is it true that Cameron has said we'll be returning to imperial units of measurement? If so, he's lost my vote.

    If it's UKIP policy he'll do it, however i'm not sure it is UKIP policy.
    It would be equivalent to saying: we want to make life especially hard for Brits who want to become scientists or engineers.

    But I guess it wouldn't affect those who want to get degrees in Media Studies.
    I'm an engineer, and all my A-levels are in science, and am very comfortable using imperial measurements. Most of us are extremely comfortable doing calculations and conversions.

    If we weren't, we couldn't qualify or do our jobs. It happens all the time.
    It would ensure Brit engineers and scientists could show off a bit more than metric continentals!! If you can handle the maths needed to be a good engineer you can handle conversions!!
  • GarethofthevaleGarethofthevale Posts: 503
    edited October 2014
    "I admire UKIP's protest-group stance and Farage's everyman popularity but when it comes to a GE, he has no chance whatsoever, and every vote which goes to UKIP increases the chances of a Labour government."

    This really winds me up. I live in Wantage constituency. Labour cannot win Wantage. Therefore if I choose to vote UKIP it will not impact Labour's chances of winning one little bit.

    Ditto if I was to live in a safe Lab seat like Bootle or a Lib-Lab marginal like Oxford East or an SNP-Lab fight like Dundee West. In fact out of 600 odd seats, there are only about 100 odd where this might be the case.

    Don't forget as well that in some seats like Rotherham a switch from Con to UKIP might actually help Cameron.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited October 2014
    The tax announcements are interesting as well because I think the Lib-Dems could sign up to both of them?

    Setting up another Con-Dem coalition after 2015?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Anorak said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is it true that Cameron has said we'll be returning to imperial units of measurement? If so, he's lost my vote.

    I thought you were joking, but no:
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/30/david-cameron-schools-should-teach-mainly-in-imperial-measurements

    Hang on I've got a ten bob note somewhere.
    That's so dumb I don't know where to start. We've been educating children in the metric system for 30 years at least. Probably more.

    It's so dumb I'm not going to believe it's true until we get a few more sources and confirmation from CCHQ.
    UKIP would explode with delight - 'Finally a British public freed from the shackles of their EU weights and measures oppressors, are able to buy straight bananas by the chain,furlong and ounce'
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779

    What would the 40% threshold be by now if it had been indexed since labour stopped indexing it?

    And what would it be in 2020 assuming starting from that number and adding 2-3% a year?

    My guess is around £50K if not higher

    Interesting question. In the 2009-10 tax year the 40p rate increased to £43,875 from £40,835, which looks like a larger increase than indexation to me.
    .
    It's almost as if that was just before the election...
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Sparrow: -

    "Cameron’s speech - Snap Verdict: In the battle of the party conference speeches, for the first time in at least three years, David Cameron has won by a mile. While Ed Miliband’s speech was something even loyalists struggled to get enthusiastic about, this will achieve exactly what Cameron wants. At the Guardian we’ll be worrying about the distributive impact of his proposed tax cuts, and where the money will come from, but for the audience that Cameron is worried about - Tory activists, readers of tabloid papers and people who watch the TV news - it hit all the right buttons."
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    edited October 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    It's perfectly possible to know both, and use the correct approach when it most fits. I'm of the age where I mostly use miles and yards for long distances, and metres and centimetres for short ones. I'm also fairly adept at roughly translating between miles and kilometres, and between feet and metres/centimetres.

    Aside from the obvious Mars Climate Orbiter, what other major engineering fuck ups have been caused by such things?

    (Edit: and I've also had reason to use chains and links in the past, although I wouldn't necessarily recommend using them on new projects).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_(unit)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_(unit)
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited October 2014
    hucks67 said:

    No wonder Dominic Grieve went. He does not support withdrawing from ECHR and replacing with a British bill of rights. As I believe this means leaving the EU or them accepting such a change, it is now more likely than not that the Tories would back leaving the EU.

    So people who vote Tory in 2015 should be aware of the direction that Cameron is taking them in.

    Maybe Cameron sticking up for people like this and I hope camerons going in that direction.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348237/Asylum-seeker-killed-Amy-Houston-12-hit-run-deported.html
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    De decimalise now! Pounds shillings and pence for all
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    I think the imperial units were based on the number 12 because it is easier to divide, or something like that, I remember Indians are good in mathematics since ancient times because they used a metric system based on 12.
    However it is hopelessly complicated compared with the decimal system because we have 10 fingers not 12, ohh history of maths.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    hucks67 said:

    No wonder Dominic Grieve went. He does not support withdrawing from ECHR and replacing with a British bill of rights. As I believe this means leaving the EU or them accepting such a change, it is now more likely than not that the Tories would back leaving the EU.

    So people who vote Tory in 2015 should be aware of the direction that Cameron is taking them in.

    The link between the ECHR and EU, long separate, is still complex enough that withdrawal from the former is unlikely to impact the latter for a parliament at least. I suspect beyond that it'll be an EU land grab.

    A more term issue will be EU fundamental rights law, as that would obviously remain in place.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    rcs1000 said:

    Robert
    We already use imperial. Last time I looked all road signs were in imperial and people give their heights in feet and inches.

    Yes, but science and engineering is entirely taught in centigrade, meters, litres, etc.

    And there's a very good reason for that.
    Celsius. And proper scientists use Kelvin.
  • There is no danger whatsoever that the Tories want to instill imperial units on the country!!!

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    rcs1000 said:

    The UKIP 2010 manifesto promises a return to Imperial measurements. Please somebody tell me that's not going to be in 2015 too.

    I think that a good working assumption is that anything which was in the 2010 UKIP manifesto definitely won't be in the 2015 manifesto.
    Oh don't say that! The jokes & deliberate misunderstandings that derive from it on here are soooo sharp and funny!
  • De decimalise now! Pounds shillings and pence for all

    LSD? Far out, man!

    :)
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    One important point is that it would extend (probably) the Employee National insurance level higher, which would probably counteract the effect to a certain level.
  • Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    I think the imperial units were based on the number 12 because it is easier to divide, or something like that, I remember Indians are good in mathematics since ancient times because they used a metric system based on 12.
    I think it was actually 10!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: Last year Ed M's supporters were telling us his conference speech had transformed politics. Now it's "conference speeches don't matter".
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Rubbish. There are dozens of engineers in my office fully competent in using both. We still use feet, knots in aviation, miles and yards on our highways, and pints and gallons to measure liquids. We weigh each other in stones and pounds, our height in feet and inches.

    Who 'f*cks up' on any of that?

    It makes no difference whatsoever. In fact, it improves mental arthimetic and numerical reasoning by building conversions into everyday life.

  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932

    Also I don't recall ordering half a litre of beer in the pub

    Maybe not, there are a few measures that are still in 'imperial' and I suspect that was for political reasons but all engineering is done in metric.
    Now was it 14 oz in a lb or 16? Then how many lbs in a stone? As for furlongs, I suppose they are still in use too.

    Bring back Groats, vote Tory.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    I think the imperial units were based on the number 12 because it is easier to divide, or something like that, I remember Indians are good in mathematics since ancient times because they used a metric system based on 12.
    However it is hopelessly complicated compared with the decimal system because we have 10 fingers not 12, ohh history of maths.
    The obvious compromise is to convert to a duodecimal number system.
  • Oliver_PBOliver_PB Posts: 397

    Oliver_PB said:

    Wait a second, is Cameron's big policy announcement was a tax cut totalling £810 for those earning over £50k/yr (the top ~15% of earners)? Wow.

    As well as being classic conservative it invites lefties to be outraged at supporting 'the rich' and then crying into their milk when the squeezed middle desert them for a party that is proposing supportive policies, not calling them 'rich'
    I agree that it's a classic Conservative policy: it helps the rich at the expense of the poor.

    It 'supports' the top 15% of earners. One of the biggest problems in society is that the wealthy don't seem to believe they're wealthy and have a persecution complex. There are middle-earners that are struggling - but it's not those earning £50k/yr.

    The Conservatives are pretty fundamentally out of touch.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    I think we need a combined education policy, bringing together Cameron's and Gove's ideas. So, Imperial Measurements, taught (children and parents must have choice!) in Latin, Greek or Ancient Hebrew.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    I think the imperial units were based on the number 12 because it is easier to divide, or something like that, I remember Indians are good in mathematics since ancient times because they used a metric system based on 12.
    I think it was actually 10!
    It a good thing Indians invented zero, or else we would be in a problem, a maths problem.
    I remember mathematicians wasted centuries to prove that 1=1.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Also I don't recall ordering half a litre of beer in the pub

    Maybe not, there are a few measures that are still in 'imperial' and I suspect that was for political reasons but all engineering is done in metric.
    Now was it 14 oz in a lb or 16? Then how many lbs in a stone? As for furlongs, I suppose they are still in use too.

    Bring back Groats, vote Tory.
    Pubs are halfway houses. Beer and cider are served in imperial pints, halves or thirds (a nip), wine and spirits are served by metric measure. Bring back the 1/6 gill, 25ml is so sterile
  • When I studied chemical engineering many moons ago ,it was lesson 1 in year 1 that we did conversions. Still remember being proud of the fact that not only did we use lbs and not kgs as the French did but we used British Lbs and not American Lbs just to complicate life a bit more
  • Britain's last ever dreadnought-style battleship, HMS Vanguard, had 15 inch main guns (which were actually recycled from HMS Glorious and Courageous upon their conversion to aircraft carriers).

    Without the need of a calculator (or Google!) I know that this is an internal diameter of 381 millimetres!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Also I don't recall ordering half a litre of beer in the pub

    Maybe not, there are a few measures that are still in 'imperial' and I suspect that was for political reasons but all engineering is done in metric.
    Now was it 14 oz in a lb or 16? Then how many lbs in a stone? As for furlongs, I suppose they are still in use too.

    Bring back Groats, vote Tory.
    Even if different measures are used for different things, so what? We are all told how good for the mind it is to be bilingual, the same principle applies with metric/imperial doesn't it?


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Rubbish. There are dozens of engineers in my office fully competent in using both. We still use feet, knots in aviation, miles and yards on our highways, and pints and gallons to measure liquids. We weigh each other in stones and pounds, our height in feet and inches.

    Who 'f*cks up' on any of that?

    It makes no difference whatsoever. In fact, it improves mental arthimetic and numerical reasoning by building conversions into everyday life.

    The Hubble Space telescope was fucked up because one team was working in metric, and another in imperial: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/686674.stm

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Beeb blog:-

    "Conservative chief whip Michael Gove tells BBC Daily Politics that David Cameron's pledge to raise the 40p income rate tax threshold will cost "just under £2bn". He confirms that the announced tax cuts would not take place until the books are balanced, by 2020. "
  • There are 12 months to the year! Do you really want to go down the French Revolutionary path and "decimalise" the calendar???
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Good speech by Cameron and the right move on tax.

    No mentions made of continued freezes on council tax, TV tax etc post 2015. Let the councils and BBC explain their decisions to raise bills and licence fees.

    More cash in pockets = more private sector employment
    More cash in pockets = more indirect tax ending up at the Treasury,

    Alongside that, they will sit on current spending and. at current levels of employment, they could almost certainly further trim the pen pushing element of the public sector.


  • rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Rubbish. There are dozens of engineers in my office fully competent in using both. We still use feet, knots in aviation, miles and yards on our highways, and pints and gallons to measure liquids. We weigh each other in stones and pounds, our height in feet and inches.

    Who 'f*cks up' on any of that?

    It makes no difference whatsoever. In fact, it improves mental arthimetic and numerical reasoning by building conversions into everyday life.

    Most of the oil industry still uses inches, barrels and psi. Not seeing any problems with their engineering or science.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Woolie, I shall never price an ebook beyond half a crown (a guinea for limited edition hardbacks).

    I used to collect coins. The old system was rather more to my liking.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Rubbish. There are dozens of engineers in my office fully competent in using both. We still use feet, knots in aviation, miles and yards on our highways, and pints and gallons to measure liquids. We weigh each other in stones and pounds, our height in feet and inches.

    Who 'f*cks up' on any of that?

    It makes no difference whatsoever. In fact, it improves mental arthimetic and numerical reasoning by building conversions into everyday life.

    The Hubble Space telescope was fucked up because one team was working in metric, and another in imperial: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/686674.stm

    "Let's just say we'd like to avoid any Imperial entanglements!" - Obi-Wan Kenobi.
  • When I studied chemical engineering many moons ago ,it was lesson 1 in year 1 that we did conversions. Still remember being proud of the fact that not only did we use lbs and not kgs as the French did but we used British Lbs and not American Lbs just to complicate life a bit more

    I still have to teach that.

    Thermodynamics lesson 1 - scientific notation, estimation and be aware that people measure things in different units - especially pressure and temperature. Which, errr, we use a fair bit as chemists and chemical engineers.

    But that Guardian article is actually disgraceful journalism. Awful stuff. Buzzfeed level.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Mr. Woolie, I shall never price an ebook beyond half a crown (a guinea for limited edition hardbacks).

    I used to collect coins. The old system was rather more to my liking.

    A fellow numismatist! Me too
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Rubbish. There are dozens of engineers in my office fully competent in using both. We still use feet, knots in aviation, miles and yards on our highways, and pints and gallons to measure liquids. We weigh each other in stones and pounds, our height in feet and inches.

    Who 'f*cks up' on any of that?

    It makes no difference whatsoever. In fact, it improves mental arthimetic and numerical reasoning by building conversions into everyday life.

    OK so it's good to have tricky units because it improves mental arithmetic.
    Engineers may be competent in both sets of units, but it's an unnecessary complication. I'm with rcs1000 on this. I really thought that it was a wind up when I heard it, in fact are we ABSOLUTELY sure that it isn't?
  • Also I don't recall ordering half a litre of beer in the pub

    Wasn't it John Major that won the exemption to still sell beer by the pint in the UK?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2014
    Socrates said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    I think the imperial units were based on the number 12 because it is easier to divide, or something like that, I remember Indians are good in mathematics since ancient times because they used a metric system based on 12.
    However it is hopelessly complicated compared with the decimal system because we have 10 fingers not 12, ohh history of maths.
    The obvious compromise is to convert to a duodecimal number system.
    Good thing that computers use the binary system (duodecimal is 12 by the way).
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Metric units are handy for science, easier for computers to use and create a more self-consistent set, but Imperial units are not stupid.

    Imperial units tend to be more useful for everyday usage. For example, as an enthusiastic baker, I know that an egg weighs roughly 2oz so if I want to make a simple cake - which uses equal quantities of butter, sugar, eggs and flour - I simply need to use 2oz of each of the other ingredients for each egg. 2oz is about 57g.

    In interface design you would probably think of Imperial Units as being "human readable", whereas Metric Units are "machine readable".
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    So on Monday Osborne's message was about the deficit , today Cameron was promising money to everyone left right and centre as if the deficit was of no importance .
    What is the Conservative priority ?
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618

    When I studied chemical engineering many moons ago ,it was lesson 1 in year 1 that we did conversions. Still remember being proud of the fact that not only did we use lbs and not kgs as the French did but we used British Lbs and not American Lbs just to complicate life a bit more

    And British Gallons not those American ones,I am also an engineer and was trained in the crossover period from fps to SI,and have no problem in using them both.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is it true that Cameron has said we'll be returning to imperial units of measurement? If so, he's lost my vote.

    If it's UKIP policy he'll do it, however i'm not sure it is UKIP policy.
    It would be equivalent to saying: we want to make life especially hard for Brits who want to become scientists or engineers.

    But I guess it wouldn't affect those who want to get degrees in Media Studies.
    I wonder how all those US scientists and engineers manage in a country that still uses Imperial measurements? Could it possibly be that being forced to do calculations in something other than multiples of 10 actually helps people do mental arithmetic and be more flexible in their thinking?

    I do wonder how the most successful engineering and science based industry on earth survives since it is almost entirely run in Imperial units.
    According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_born_scientists_and_engineers_in_the_United_States) they largely manage it through importing scientists and engineers... and probaby from countries where they teach in metric.

    Come on Richard: are you seriously telling me you support reintroducing Imperial into the classroom?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    So on Monday Osborne's message was about the deficit , today Cameron was promising money to everyone left right and centre as if the deficit was of no importance .
    What is the Conservative priority ?

    Proberly same as the lib dem one.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited October 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Rubbish. There are dozens of engineers in my office fully competent in using both. We still use feet, knots in aviation, miles and yards on our highways, and pints and gallons to measure liquids. We weigh each other in stones and pounds, our height in feet and inches.

    Who 'f*cks up' on any of that?

    It makes no difference whatsoever. In fact, it improves mental arthimetic and numerical reasoning by building conversions into everyday life.

    The Hubble Space telescope was fucked up because one team was working in metric, and another in imperial: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/686674.stm

    The 'Gimli Glider' nearly ended up killing hundreds scores because of mix up between kg and lb.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Rubbish. There are dozens of engineers in my office fully competent in using both. We still use feet, knots in aviation, miles and yards on our highways, and pints and gallons to measure liquids. We weigh each other in stones and pounds, our height in feet and inches.

    Who 'f*cks up' on any of that?

    It makes no difference whatsoever. In fact, it improves mental arthimetic and numerical reasoning by building conversions into everyday life.

    OK so it's good to have tricky units because it improves mental arithmetic.
    Engineers may be competent in both sets of units, but it's an unnecessary complication. I'm with rcs1000 on this. I really thought that it was a wind up when I heard it, in fact are we ABSOLUTELY sure that it isn't?
    Let's change to having 97pence in a pound. It'll improve everyone's mental arithmetic.
  • Racehorses are still bought and sold in guineas.

    No, I don't know why either.
  • Oliver_PBOliver_PB Posts: 397
    Smarmeron said:

    Beeb blog:-

    "Conservative chief whip Michael Gove tells BBC Daily Politics that David Cameron's pledge to raise the 40p income rate tax threshold will cost "just under £2bn". He confirms that the announced tax cuts would not take place until the books are balanced, by 2020. "

    Effectively a concession that the Conservative Party has no plans to cut the national debt.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Rubbish. There are dozens of engineers in my office fully competent in using both. We still use feet, knots in aviation, miles and yards on our highways, and pints and gallons to measure liquids. We weigh each other in stones and pounds, our height in feet and inches.

    Who 'f*cks up' on any of that?

    It makes no difference whatsoever. In fact, it improves mental arthimetic and numerical reasoning by building conversions into everyday life.

    The Hubble Space telescope was fucked up because one team was working in metric, and another in imperial: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/686674.stm

    Believe me, f*ck ups due to calculation errors happen all the time. Within the metric system. People miss decimal points, fail to communicate the size of the structure required with the adjacent team, fail to use the latest design standards, or don't understand what's 'buildable' out on site.

    If the Hubble space telescope screwed up because of something as simple as base dimensions, the project had much bigger and fundamental management issues than that.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Woolie, recently discovered (well, a few years ago now) that in the medieval era there were also marks, a mark being 2/3 of a pound (160d, or 13s 4d, I think). Because farthings, ha'pennies, pence, shillings, florins, crowns, pounds and guineas is a system too simple ;)
  • Oliver_PBOliver_PB Posts: 397

    So on Monday Osborne's message was about the deficit , today Cameron was promising money to everyone left right and centre as if the deficit was of no importance .
    What is the Conservative priority ?

    UKIP.

    And it won't work.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Oliver_PB said:

    Oliver_PB said:

    Wait a second, is Cameron's big policy announcement was a tax cut totalling £810 for those earning over £50k/yr (the top ~15% of earners)? Wow.

    As well as being classic conservative it invites lefties to be outraged at supporting 'the rich' and then crying into their milk when the squeezed middle desert them for a party that is proposing supportive policies, not calling them 'rich'
    I agree that it's a classic Conservative policy: it helps the rich at the expense of the poor.

    It 'supports' the top 15% of earners. One of the biggest problems in society is that the wealthy don't seem to believe they're wealthy and have a persecution complex. There are middle-earners that are struggling - but it's not those earning £50k/yr.

    The Conservatives are pretty fundamentally out of touch.
    What does "struggling" actually mean though? If there's a couple living in London, with the wife earning £50k a year while her husband looks after three young kids, they're certainly not poor, but they might be struggling to keep their finances in order.
  • Racehorses are still bought and sold in guineas.

    No, I don't know why either.

    They run races in furlongs as well!! and measure height in hands!!
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    So on Monday Osborne's message was about the deficit , today Cameron was promising money to everyone left right and centre as if the deficit was of no importance .
    What is the Conservative priority ?

    The government has been cutting direct taxation almost all parliament, and the deficit has been falling.

    They will get it all back in indirect and consumption tax.


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Anorak said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Rubbish. There are dozens of engineers in my office fully competent in using both. We still use feet, knots in aviation, miles and yards on our highways, and pints and gallons to measure liquids. We weigh each other in stones and pounds, our height in feet and inches.

    Who 'f*cks up' on any of that?

    It makes no difference whatsoever. In fact, it improves mental arthimetic and numerical reasoning by building conversions into everyday life.

    The Hubble Space telescope was fucked up because one team was working in metric, and another in imperial: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/686674.stm

    The 'Gimli Glider' nearly ended up killing hundreds because of mix up between kg and lb.
    That's a great story: I recommend everyone google it
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is it true that Cameron has said we'll be returning to imperial units of measurement? If so, he's lost my vote.

    If it's UKIP policy he'll do it, however i'm not sure it is UKIP policy.
    It would be equivalent to saying: we want to make life especially hard for Brits who want to become scientists or engineers.

    But I guess it wouldn't affect those who want to get degrees in Media Studies.
    I wonder how all those US scientists and engineers manage in a country that still uses Imperial measurements? Could it possibly be that being forced to do calculations in something other than multiples of 10 actually helps people do mental arithmetic and be more flexible in their thinking?

    I do wonder how the most successful engineering and science based industry on earth survives since it is almost entirely run in Imperial units.
    According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_born_scientists_and_engineers_in_the_United_States) they largely manage it through importing scientists and engineers... and probaby from countries where they teach in metric.

    Come on Richard: are you seriously telling me you support reintroducing Imperial into the classroom?
    Yes absolutely. Anything that both improves mental arithmetic and fits people better for life in the real world (bearing in mind that nature is annoyingly non-metric) would be a good thing. The ability to do conversions with ease is a huge life skill no matter what you are converting to and from.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is it true that Cameron has said we'll be returning to imperial units of measurement? If so, he's lost my vote.

    If it's UKIP policy he'll do it, however i'm not sure it is UKIP policy.
    It would be equivalent to saying: we want to make life especially hard for Brits who want to become scientists or engineers.

    But I guess it wouldn't affect those who want to get degrees in Media Studies.
    I wonder how all those US scientists and engineers manage in a country that still uses Imperial measurements? Could it possibly be that being forced to do calculations in something other than multiples of 10 actually helps people do mental arithmetic and be more flexible in their thinking?

    I do wonder how the most successful engineering and science based industry on earth survives since it is almost entirely run in Imperial units.
    According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_born_scientists_and_engineers_in_the_United_States) they largely manage it through importing scientists and engineers... and probaby from countries where they teach in metric.

    Come on Richard: are you seriously telling me you support reintroducing Imperial into the classroom?
    Yes absolutely. Anything that both improves mental arithmetic and fits people better for life in the real world (bearing in mind that nature is annoyingly non-metric) would be a good thing. The ability to do conversions with ease is a huge life skill no matter what you are converting to and from.
    Why don't we create a new system using bases of 7 and 19? That would improve mental arithmetic even more than imperial.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Rubbish. There are dozens of engineers in my office fully competent in using both. We still use feet, knots in aviation, miles and yards on our highways, and pints and gallons to measure liquids. We weigh each other in stones and pounds, our height in feet and inches.

    Who 'f*cks up' on any of that?

    It makes no difference whatsoever. In fact, it improves mental arthimetic and numerical reasoning by building conversions into everyday life.

    The Hubble Space telescope was fucked up because one team was working in metric, and another in imperial: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/686674.stm

    Believe me, f*ck ups due to calculation errors happen all the time. Within the metric system. People miss decimal points, fail to communicate the size of the structure required with the adjacent team, fail to use the latest design standards, or don't understand what's 'buildable' out on site.

    If the Hubble space telescope screwed up because of something as simple as base dimensions, the project had much bigger and fundamental management issues than that.
    A few Mars spacecraft have been lost that way too, the latest one was the British Beagle 2, in 2003, it cost a ton of money and it was lost due to imperial measurements.

    However it could be worse, Cameron could have announced the return to the Babylonian system (based on 60).
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited October 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Rubbish. There are dozens of engineers in my office fully competent in using both. We still use feet, knots in aviation, miles and yards on our highways, and pints and gallons to measure liquids. We weigh each other in stones and pounds, our height in feet and inches.

    Who 'f*cks up' on any of that?

    It makes no difference whatsoever. In fact, it improves mental arthimetic and numerical reasoning by building conversions into everyday life.

    The Hubble Space telescope was fucked up because one team was working in metric, and another in imperial: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/686674.stm

    The 'Gimli Glider' nearly ended up killing hundreds because of mix up between kg and lb.
    That's a great story: I recommend everyone google it
    Great story, utterly appaling TV movie!

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling_from_the_Sky:_Flight_174
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    “The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it!"
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Rubbish. There are dozens of engineers in my office fully competent in using both. We still use feet, knots in aviation, miles and yards on our highways, and pints and gallons to measure liquids. We weigh each other in stones and pounds, our height in feet and inches.

    Who 'f*cks up' on any of that?

    It makes no difference whatsoever. In fact, it improves mental arthimetic and numerical reasoning by building conversions into everyday life.

    Well said - there is room for both Metric and Imperial in school education today. We currently use both measurements in the UK, so teaching it seems like just plain common sense to me.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Speedy
    Hexadecimal, you know it makes sense!
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    FFS, numbers are just numbers. Spend valuable classroom time teaching Hex rather than imperial if you want to actually educate the kids.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    No system of measure is perfect, only convenient.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,704
    Have the Tories really said that they will reinstate Imperial units in schools?
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Also I don't recall ordering half a litre of beer in the pub

    As for furlongs, I suppose they are still in use too.
    Depressing to read that on what purports to be a betting site.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Rubbish. There are dozens of engineers in my office fully competent in using both. We still use feet, knots in aviation, miles and yards on our highways, and pints and gallons to measure liquids. We weigh each other in stones and pounds, our height in feet and inches.

    Who 'f*cks up' on any of that?

    It makes no difference whatsoever. In fact, it improves mental arthimetic and numerical reasoning by building conversions into everyday life.

    The Hubble Space telescope was fucked up because one team was working in metric, and another in imperial: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/686674.stm

    I'm not sure that was the case:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Space_Telescope#Origin_of_the_problem

    And especially section 7.1 of
    http://www.company7.com/c7news/19910003124_1991003124.pdf

    And like many such cases, the problem was not caught due to lack of suitable testing post-manufacture.

    As an aside, I've seen a fair few errors caused by people mistaking Mb (Megabit) and MB (MegaByte). Sometimes because people misread documentation; most frequently because people document incorrectly.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Mr. Woolie, recently discovered (well, a few years ago now) that in the medieval era there were also marks, a mark being 2/3 of a pound (160d, or 13s 4d, I think). Because farthings, ha'pennies, pence, shillings, florins, crowns, pounds and guineas is a system too simple ;)

    It all came from the Romans, and due to the fact that with 12 it is easy to do fractions.
    Though the imperial system used a complex mix.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899
    BiIinguaIism is a benefit.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Jonathan said:

    Have the Tories really said that they will reinstate Imperial units in schools?

    No. It was an off the cuff comment by Cameron in a Newsnight interview - I doubt it will see the manifesto.....they have other battles to fight....

  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    edited October 2014
    @OliverPB "The Tories are fundamentally out of touch"

    Would you prefer that they spend fortunes on people on benefits who are able to work or change the system (as they are doing) so that it becomes financially attractive to those on benefits to get a job.

    I get the 'moral' case for what IDS and the Tories are doing. Perhaps it's because I have two young children and I've worked my whole life. The way the system was working in 2009 we were heading a) towards bankruptcy abd b) a hellish future for our children.

    Someone had to grab the nettle and the Tories have done so. It hasn't been popular, it has hurt and it will carry on hurting for a few years. But, if we stay on the current path and accept the short-term pain, the future for my 5-year-old and 1-year-old will be far brighter than it looked back in 2009 for anyone with young children.

    That to me is a moral cause.

    I've said before that throughout the noughties my living standards shot up hugely, mainly because I was lucky enough to own a home which nearly trebled in value. It was all built on sand, yet I lived like a king for a few years (all this was under a Labour government) whilst Gordon Brown preached to me about prudence and no more boom and bust. Then of course, it all caved in, and I've since had five years of flatlining living standards. I accept that. I also accept that I have no God given right to living standards continually rising. And I also believe it is morally wrong to expect my living standards to rise by borrowing money from the future; money which should go to my kids.

    Of course, we still are borrowing a lot, and the economy is proving phenomenally difficult to turn around, mainly because there are lots and lots of people like you who don't believe in making radical changes to the way the system works and therefore dig in against it. The Tories should stick to their guns, and when tax cuts to working people, letting people spend their own money rather than giving it to the government to spend it for them, proves to work, as it will, and the economy gets growing again, then hopefully people like you will be persuaded.

    By the way, I'm as working class as you get. But not wracked by prejudice.


  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited October 2014
    Despite being a firm metrician (as opposed a reactionary imperialist), I quite like how feet are used globally for aircraft altitude. Even in France!

    [Ok, so not in China, Mongolia or some of the 'stans'. Whatever.]
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    edited October 2014
    Were you watching, Ed Miliband? That is how to deliver a speech.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is it true that Cameron has said we'll be returning to imperial units of measurement? If so, he's lost my vote.

    If it's UKIP policy he'll do it, however i'm not sure it is UKIP policy.
    It would be equivalent to saying: we want to make life especially hard for Brits who want to become scientists or engineers.

    But I guess it wouldn't affect those who want to get degrees in Media Studies.
    I wonder how all those US scientists and engineers manage in a country that still uses Imperial measurements? Could it possibly be that being forced to do calculations in something other than multiples of 10 actually helps people do mental arithmetic and be more flexible in their thinking?

    I do wonder how the most successful engineering and science based industry on earth survives since it is almost entirely run in Imperial units.
    According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_born_scientists_and_engineers_in_the_United_States) they largely manage it through importing scientists and engineers... and probaby from countries where they teach in metric.

    Come on Richard: are you seriously telling me you support reintroducing Imperial into the classroom?
    You mean America is importing German scientists? I'm shocked, what next, German scientists building american rockets?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Imperial units are stupid. They make leaning science harder, and they lead to engineering fuck ups.

    To want to return to them because you see metric as some kind of European plot is so spectacularly absurd as to defy belief. If both UKIP and the Conservative Parties were to have this as their official policy it would be extraordinary.

    Can somebody please start the Pro-Metric Conservative Party?

    Rubbish. There are dozens of engineers in my office fully competent in using both. We still use feet, knots in aviation, miles and yards on our highways, and pints and gallons to measure liquids. We weigh each other in stones and pounds, our height in feet and inches.

    Who 'f*cks up' on any of that?

    It makes no difference whatsoever. In fact, it improves mental arthimetic and numerical reasoning by building conversions into everyday life.

    The Hubble Space telescope was fucked up because one team was working in metric, and another in imperial: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/686674.stm

    Believe me, f*ck ups due to calculation errors happen all the time. Within the metric system. People miss decimal points, fail to communicate the size of the structure required with the adjacent team, fail to use the latest design standards, or don't understand what's 'buildable' out on site.

    If the Hubble space telescope screwed up because of something as simple as base dimensions, the project had much bigger and fundamental management issues than that.
    A few Mars spacecraft have been lost that way too, the latest one was the British Beagle 2, in 2003, it cost a ton of money and it was lost due to imperial measurements.

    However it could be worse, Cameron could have announced the return to the Babylonian system (based on 60).
    I think you're wrong about Beagle 2. AFAICR they never got to the bottom of the cause of its loss, and I don't think imperial units came into any of the possible causes. Could be wrong, though.
This discussion has been closed.