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  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    The cumulative vote shares for all council by elections held in September ( circa 19,000 votes ) were as follows

    Lab 29%
    Con 26%
    LDem 22%
    UKIP 13%
    Green 4%
    Others 6%

    and for all council by elections held in the 3 months July-Sept ( circa 64,500 votes ) were

    Con 30%
    Lab 24.5%
    LDem 17%
    UKIP 14.5%
    Green 5%
    Others 9%

    Do you have the equivalent stats for the last time these seats were contested?

    With this sort of analysis it's only the delta or the NEV that's meaningful
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    So what's going on with that Unite vs US health provider stuff?

    I've only seen a few soundbites - but it left me very confused about the Kipper position.



    UKIP is tending to focus its attention on those elements of the public who are fearful of change and want it to stop. Hence a tendency towards protectionism.

    Tosh. UKIP advocate free trade.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    HYUFD said:

    RAF planes just left Cyprus for first bombing raids http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29393379

    So we are off to another war that we can't win (because we have no war aim). Years more of endless expense in treasure and let us hope not blood this time for no known purpose other than to be seen to be doing something to support our "allies".
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited September 2014
    Ninoinoz said:

    Socrates said:

    saddo said:

    If labour are saying UKIP smeared them, UKIP are probably understating the reality.

    http://rotherhampolitics.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/labour-biraderi-corruption-and-child-sexual-abuse-joining-the-dots/

    Shocking, but how many other towns has this happened in?

    That's the question that's not going away. Where is the PM on this?
    Probably at a gay wedding.

    I'm not joking. When the Savile scandal exploded, the minister responsible for the BBC, Maria Miller, gave a speech at the Tory party conference. Her subject? Same sex marriage.

    Now, although I'm biased in this, I'm sure I'm not the only one to regard this a rather skewed set of priorities.
    Nah, It's ironically appropriate actually.

    The rights of abused kids - the right of respect, dignity and equal treatment under the law was trampled over for generations. cf; gay people since, like, forever.

    It's about not turning a blind eye to injustice.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Holy Moly!

    I'd forgotten how bad it got for Labour. I tripped across my old blog pre-2010 a few months ago and it did make me laugh. Boy, was I pissed at Gordon - and loved Derek Draper's stupidity!

    Plato said:

    Cripes - I tend to put the Euro elections in the Bargin Bin bucket of political results as they've little obvious impact on us and it's an enormous protest vote.

    I vote Kipper in the Euros just to be awkward.

    Miss Plato, in one poll Labour under Brown went to 19%.

    Mori on 31/5/2009 - coincident with the Euro-election campaign and the Expenses scandal - had Labour on 18%, the same as the Lib Dems, with the Tories on 40%.
    That poll was for Westminster; it was just taken at the time of the Euros. (For reference, Labour polled 15.7% in those elections).
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @Morris_Dancer‌, I've only read Elric books [25yrs ago] as frankly I find the notion of running about with capes and ComicCon swords a bit socially embarrassing, even in the privacy of my own home...

    Can you give me a penpix of yours, so I can buy them without flinching?

    Given I'm a huge crap horror/50s sci-fi and vampire genre lover - I'm really in no position to judge the Dungeons and Dragons/World of Warcraft brigade...

    Miss Anne, don't be afraid to branch out. I hear Thaddeus White* is an author of splendid fantasy. Look how reasonably priced and highly rated his books are:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thaddeus-White/e/B008C6RU98/

    *for newcomers, this is my pen name.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    edited September 2014
    Miss Plato, penpix?

    If you're not into fantasy I can (hopefully) reassure you that one my beta readers also really isn't into it, but liked the story a lot. It's more comedy that happens to be fantasy, than fantasy with some jokes.

    Edited extra bit: by 'it' I mean Sir Edric's Temple. The other two books do have lighter moments but they're more traditional fantasy fare.
  • Mr Hyfud,

    I think the credit for the expression belongs to to Simon Heffer, but Cameron is a shallow "PR Spiv". I really wouldn't piss in his ear if his brain was on fire. His saviour has been that Labour went for an even bigger berk.

    Had Labour been able to elect a real leader they would be miles ahead by now an have the next election in the bag. Unfortunately for them, the odious Brown had cleared out anyone who might have been a threat to him, but of benefit to the country. I really am not sure what evil the UK committed that leaves us with Miliband and Cameron as the top politicians. Neither of them could lead a squad of ducklings across a fire bucket, let alone a nation.

    Who were these giants that Brown got rid of? Blair axed Robin Cook and Mo Mowlam. Milburn resigned while Blair was in his pomp. James Purnell resigned from Brown's government but was not sacked.

    Labour's problem is surely that under Blair and Brown, ministers were largely figureheads whose every action had to be cleared by or even dictated from Number Ten, and that in Opposition, no stars can emerge owing to the tactic of saying nothing.
  • HYUFD said:

    Speedy/TUD Lord Bell on Cameron '‘He’s a pygmy! I’ve never heard him say anything that sounded like a conviction. EVER.

    Lord Bell gets a passing mention in the new Felix Francis "Dick Francis" book. If it comes up at a Party Conference pub quiz, Bob's your uncle.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,878
    Hurst At least we are fighting the right people this time, though we do need to coordinate with the Kurds and Iraqi army on the ground
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Thank you Screaming Eagles for correcting Ninoinoz.
    I find all such slurs and ignorance reprehensible. Plus with the clear obsession with gay marriage it tells me all I need to know.
    The way people want to use these issues, and in so doing misrepresent them, for base political puposes is disgusting.

    I grow tired of the crude shameless dog whistles emanating from Farage and UKIP.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    What fun that would be. Shades of John Major challenging his own MPs in the Rose Garden.



    It is a serious question. Hague and IDS both got a right going over from the press practically from Day 1. Admittedly, they were up a against Blair (and Alistair Campbell) at the peak of their powers, but the fact that Miliband has had four years with nothing like the same level of scrutiny makes me question whether it will happen to anything like that degree. Sure, it'll ramp up a bit as polling day approaches but the media rarely hold off stories or articles that they can run now, or at least, this month, which makes me think that there really isn't all that much desire to stick the boot in.

    You're beginning to worry me David. I had your card marked as the sensible thread author on here. Again, it comes back to the fact we are in a fixed term parliament. You do actually know that's the case? Unlike your pb bubble no-one out there is thinking about an election. As we draw close to the real thing, and people wake up to the GE, Miliband is going to get scrutinised to the nth. That's putting it politely. I reckon he will be ripped to shreds next spring by some of the media. He has foolishly made significant enemies, and I'm not just referring to The Sun. That he is not up to the job is by now manifestly obvious to everyone except him.
    Indeed, it's not impossible that we might have an Autumn election this year (a thread I may write next week depending on what else interesting happens in between).
    You been imbibing autumnal mushrooms David? Was it you that suggested the collapse of Cameron and Country after the Indyref? I wonder what cataclysmic event you are dreaming up now to bring about such a scenario? It can't be two UKIP by-election wins which are hardly unexpected. Hoardes of defecting Tories? Or perhaps ISIS crossing the Bosphorous? Putin's forces reaching Berlin? Or the final eruption of Bardabunga?

    I'll stick to Game of Thrones for my fantasy.
    No, I don't think it was me that "suggested the collapse of Cameron and Country after the Indyref" (in fact, in my last article before the vote, I commented that with a Yes vote, the Tories could win most seats without most votes).

    However, a potential Autumn election could be related to Scotland, namely via EV4EL. If Labour and the Lib Dems combine to vote it down, why shouldn't Cameron resign his government and seek a mandate from the people? The FTPA would require a couple of weeks wait to see if an alternative government could be formed but I really don't see how one could be as the numbers are practically the same now as in 2010 and Labour could only hold office with Clegg's active support.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    IME, the Left are very prominent on social media - as were the cybernats.

    They may be most vocal, but I suspect that their bludgeoning/blocking of anyone who disagrees doesn't work.

    It may influence some, but I suspect it puts off just as many.

    Just a thought on the modernisation of the politics due to the internet. I wonder if this will, long-term help Labour or the Conservatives more, or help/hinder the bigger parties.

    The power of 'big media' (newspapers and broadcasters) has relatively declined, and the rise of social media allows so-called citizen journalists (private bloggers) to reach large audiences.

    It may make it easier for smaller parties to become established and grow, as they can have their own bloggers much more easily than they could persuade newspapers to back them (even the Lib Dems only had a paper or two on-side in 2010).

  • PongPong Posts: 4,693

    Thank you Screaming Eagles for correcting Ninoinoz.
    I find all such slurs and ignorance reprehensible. Plus with the clear obsession with gay marriage it tells me all I need to know.
    The way people want to use these issues, and in so doing misrepresent them, for base political puposes is disgusting.

    I grow tired of the crude shameless dog whistles emanating from Farage and UKIP.

    http://gayhomophobe.com/
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Grandiose says -- ''Cameron is not directly responsible for the police, but there's a lack of political leadership. Perhaps he's waiting for the right moment. ''

    Quite possibly
    We should not loose track of the way the police tried to fit up a tory cabinet minister and also went out of their way with socialist collusion to arrest a tory shadow minister and search his office in the commons. All trumped up.
    So the tories are very far in fact 'responsible' for the police they are in effect at war with them. As I recall May gave them a rollocking at their federation conference. I imagine it went down like a bucket of sick but it was deserved.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758



    I see our great stewards of the economy are now proposing to flog new builds at ever bigger discount to first time buyers. Wouldn't it be better to recognise that the housing market is utterly broken? It won't help people who have invested in their first home at over the odds and can't afford to move on up. And are these direct subsidies to the homebuilders the best use of taxpayers money. No. What they're really doing is stacking another layer on the house of cards. As Peter from Putney did say, God help us..

    Agree on housing.All the parties are trying to paper over the cracks, rather than look at the structural issues behind housing demand.
    Supply and demand. It's a small country and they aren't making land anymore, ergo house prices will remain high.



    It ain't THAT small.
    When the Metropolitan Green Belt alone covers more than three times as much land than has been built on in the entire UK, we don't have a land shortage.

    Correction. We DO have a land shortage.
    But it's one that we voluntarily impose on ourselves and is at the crux of much of spending and cost of living issues.
    Because the theme that the Green Belt is such a wonderful idea, with visions of idyllic green parks and forests for the public (rather than the reality that nearly all of it is unavailable to the public, the majority is under intensive agricultural techniques, and most of what is left is "in transition" (ie decaying), that more land in Surrey is under golf courses tha houses) ... is a theme that no politician will address.
    Because we, the public, are so bought in to that illusory vision, that we'll crucify them if they do.

    Politicians don't address it because existing home owners (who vote) go apoplectic whenever anyone so much as suggests putting up a single bungalow for priced-out, young, first-time buyers (who don't vote) anywhere within 5 miles of them.
    Basically you need to buy them off.

    To be fair they lose value as a result of building (either directly or through loss of amenity value). So it's fair that they are compensated for it.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I thought @nigel4england‌ made a very clear point about this on FPT when he talked about his personal commitment to the victims of sex abuse.

    I didn't miss his point, at all.
    Ninoinoz said:

    Socrates said:

    saddo said:

    If labour are saying UKIP smeared them, UKIP are probably understating the reality.

    http://rotherhampolitics.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/labour-biraderi-corruption-and-child-sexual-abuse-joining-the-dots/

    Shocking, but how many other towns has this happened in?

    That's the question that's not going away. Where is the PM on this?
    Probably at a gay wedding.

    I'm not joking. When the Savile scandal exploded, the minister responsible for the BBC, Maria Miller, gave a speech at the Tory party conference. Her subject? Same sex marriage.

    Now, although I'm biased in this, I'm sure I'm not the only one to regard this a rather skewed set of priorities.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,878
    Decrepit John Useful snippit
  • Andy Hearn ‏@AndyHearn09 Sep 26
    UKIP The anti establishment party that is more establishment than the establishment. #UKIPConf14
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    isam said:

    75 grand in 1974 seems a lot to me, but wouldn't the mansion tax be better if it only applied to new purchases?

    Fraser Nelson (@FraserNelson)
    27/09/2014 10:08
    Fascinating interviews with pensioners who stand to lose quarter of their income under Labour's mansion tax thetimes.co.uk/tto/life/prope…

    Its not Joan Bakewell is it ?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/9123806/After-40-years-why-should-I-be-forced-to-sell-my-property.html

    Did Nelson suggest they sell their mansions, buy somewhere a little cheaper and free up half a million in capital for them to spend ?

    There's not going to be much sympathy for self-pitying multi-millionaire pensioners when real wages for workers are falling and home ownership has been in decline for over a decade.

    The irony is that Osborne and Cable had agreed to bring in a mansion tax and get rid of the 50% income tax rate but were stopped from doing so by Cameron and Clegg.
    The problem is that, even though their houses have rocketed in price, the utility of their houses hasn't changed. So they are actively being asked to downgrade their lifestyles (somewhere "a little cheaper" will be smaller or in a less nice/different area) because of something that is not in their control. And they will be asked to make a contribution on their net asset value on death anyway.

    (as an aside, I'm actually in favour of a property tax, but on all houses without any arbitrary threshold and base it on last sale/transfer price + RPI. Yes this will create anomalies, but these will be relatively small and self correcting. The advantage of the Tories doing it is they can use the proceeds to cut more damaging taxes to encourage economic activity)
  • Grandiose says -- ''Cameron is not directly responsible for the police, but there's a lack of political leadership. Perhaps he's waiting for the right moment. ''

    Quite possibly
    We should not loose track of the way the police tried to fit up a tory cabinet minister and also went out of their way with socialist collusion to arrest a tory shadow minister and search his office in the commons. All trumped up.
    So the tories are very far in fact 'responsible' for the police they are in effect at war with them. As I recall May gave them a rollocking at their federation conference. I imagine it went down like a bucket of sick but it was deserved.

    May was playing to the gallery -- we can discount the possibility the Home Secretary actually believes that constables in the Federation decide force policy. If she'd said it to ACPO, she'd have been closer to the mark.

    Perhaps the Conservative Party might be comfortably ahead in the polls if they'd not been quite so determined to annoy their natural supporters, like the police, teachers, and pasty-makers; if they'd not drunk the "public sector = Labour client state" kool-aid.
  • Charles said:

    The cumulative vote shares for all council by elections held in September ( circa 19,000 votes ) were as follows

    Lab 29%
    Con 26%
    LDem 22%
    UKIP 13%
    Green 4%
    Others 6%

    and for all council by elections held in the 3 months July-Sept ( circa 64,500 votes ) were

    Con 30%
    Lab 24.5%
    LDem 17%
    UKIP 14.5%
    Green 5%
    Others 9%

    Do you have the equivalent stats for the last time these seats were contested?

    With this sort of analysis it's only the delta or the NEV that's meaningful
    True. My initial thoughts (without the comparative data) is that it sort of looks a bit like a nascent Lib Dem recovery there.
  • Charles said:



    I see our great stewards of the economy are now proposing to flog new builds at ever bigger discount to first time buyers. Wouldn't it be better to recognise that the housing market is utterly broken? It won't help people who have invested in their first home at over the odds and can't afford to move on up. And are these direct subsidies to the homebuilders the best use of taxpayers money. No. What they're really doing is stacking another layer on the house of cards. As Peter from Putney did say, God help us..

    Agree on housing.All the parties are trying to paper over the cracks, rather than look at the structural issues behind housing demand.
    Supply and demand. It's a small country and they aren't making land anymore, ergo house prices will remain high.



    It ain't THAT small.
    When the Metropolitan Green Belt alone covers more than three times as much land than has been built on in the entire UK, we don't have a land shortage.

    Correction. We DO have a land shortage.
    But it's one that we voluntarily impose on ourselves and is at the crux of much of spending and cost of living issues.
    Because the theme that the Green Belt is such a wonderful idea, with visions of idyllic green parks and forests for the public (rather than the reality that nearly all of it is unavailable to the public, the majority is under intensive agricultural techniques, and most of what is left is "in transition" (ie decaying), that more land in Surrey is under golf courses tha houses) ... is a theme that no politician will address.
    Because we, the public, are so bought in to that illusory vision, that we'll crucify them if they do.

    Politicians don't address it because existing home owners (who vote) go apoplectic whenever anyone so much as suggests putting up a single bungalow for priced-out, young, first-time buyers (who don't vote) anywhere within 5 miles of them.
    Basically you need to buy them off.

    To be fair they lose value as a result of building (either directly or through loss of amenity value). So it's fair that they are compensated for it.
    Yarp. No politician or developer seems to have yet twigged this, other than the S106 agreement contributions toward local infrastructure/facilities and other community contributions. That isn't enough for NIMBYs who are going to be blighted by additional traffic, or their views spoilt.

    Then again, perhaps it's just too difficult to accurately assess the impact on home value of adjacent new build. It might lead to too many legal disputes etc. and be more trouble than it's worth.
  • Thank you Screaming Eagles for correcting Ninoinoz.
    I find all such slurs and ignorance reprehensible. Plus with the clear obsession with gay marriage it tells me all I need to know.
    The way people want to use these issues, and in so doing misrepresent them, for base political puposes is disgusting.

    I grow tired of the crude shameless dog whistles emanating from Farage and UKIP.

    Thats alright, we grow tired of the shameless smears and lies emanating from you.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Freggles said:

    Freggles said:

    Was the glossed over announcement by Burnham that social care would be brought into the NHS not significant then?

    Yes, it's been noted that Labour are planning another reorganisation of Everyone's NHS.
    No, Andy Burnham has been clear that there will be no top-down mandate for change, just permission for health economies to reform in their own time - which is Simon Stevens' position too.
    The only top-down measure will be the repeal of the Act
    And as I pointed out below, the Better Care Fund is already set up to do most of the plan under the coalition (largely down to Norman Lamb, one of many excellent and effective LD ministers).

    Repealing the Bill allows more democratic control, and permits use of private providers but takes them out of the driving seat.

    Labours NHS plans show quite a lot of continuity with coalition plans and are well thought through (though I think the cost and speed of transformation is underestimated).

    It is one reason Miliband feels threatened by Burnham, he does not like to be overshadowed by someone competent.
    Labour underestimating the cost.... now there's a surprise
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    isam said:

    isam said:

    75 grand in 1974 seems a lot to me, but wouldn't the mansion tax be better if it only applied to new purchases?

    Fraser Nelson (@FraserNelson)
    27/09/2014 10:08
    Fascinating interviews with pensioners who stand to lose quarter of their income under Labour's mansion tax thetimes.co.uk/tto/life/prope…

    Its not Joan Bakewell is it ?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/9123806/After-40-years-why-should-I-be-forced-to-sell-my-property.html

    Did Nelson suggest they sell their mansions, buy somewhere a little cheaper and free up half a million in capital for them to spend ?

    There's not going to be much sympathy for self-pitying multi-millionaire pensioners when real wages for workers are falling and home ownership has been in decline for over a decade.

    The irony is that Osborne and Cable had agreed to bring in a mansion tax and get rid of the 50% income tax rate but were stopped from doing so by Cameron and Clegg.
    I do wonder how sustainable it is to bring in a Mansion Tax and not simultaneously reband the Council Tax, against updated ratings.
    Probably being naive here, but isn't it a bit unfair to slap a tax on something after it has been purchased?

    Raise the stamp duty for all purchases over £2m would be better IMO
    It's already at 7%.

    How high do you want it to go? 25% as a luxury good?
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Mr Hyfud,

    I think the credit for the expression belongs to to Simon Heffer, but Cameron is a shallow "PR Spiv". I really wouldn't piss in his ear if his brain was on fire. His saviour has been that Labour went for an even bigger berk.

    Had Labour been able to elect a real leader they would be miles ahead by now an have the next election in the bag. Unfortunately for them, the odious Brown had cleared out anyone who might have been a threat to him, but of benefit to the country. I really am not sure what evil the UK committed that leaves us with Miliband and Cameron as the top politicians. Neither of them could lead a squad of ducklings across a fire bucket, let alone a nation.

    Like all of us you are entitled to your opinion but it is rubbish. Worse than rubbish in fact - just knee jerk propaganda.
    This govt has done a whole range of things which are good and nothing at all to do with PR. Quite remarkable since it is a coalition. In particular it has grasped a whole range of nettles from pensions welfare health education public sector jobs and defence which are controversial. There is nothing about it that is to do with PR - indeed some of us despair at the lack of PR.
    Funny how people like you always sound off so piously but are a singularly unwilling to get theor fingers dirty. The only think that is likely to emanate is crude populism - otherwise known in some quarters as PR spin. We have seem a lot of that lately from the spiv in Doncaster.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758



    UKIP is tending to focus its attention on those elements of the public who are fearful of change and want it to stop. Hence a tendency towards protectionism.

    Tosh. UKIP advocate free trade.



    UKIP is tending to focus its attention on those elements of the public who are fearful of change and want it to stop. Hence a tendency towards protectionism.

    Tosh. UKIP advocate free trade.
    Are you sure about that? re: TTIP

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/14/ttip-deal-british-sovereignty-cameron-ukip-treaty
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr Hyfud,

    I think the credit for the expression belongs to to Simon Heffer, but Cameron is a shallow "PR Spiv". I really wouldn't piss in his ear if his brain was on fire. His saviour has been that Labour went for an even bigger berk.

    Had Labour been able to elect a real leader they would be miles ahead by now an have the next election in the bag. Unfortunately for them, the odious Brown had cleared out anyone who might have been a threat to him, but of benefit to the country. I really am not sure what evil the UK committed that leaves us with Miliband and Cameron as the top politicians. Neither of them could lead a squad of ducklings across a fire bucket, let alone a nation.

    Like all of us you are entitled to your opinion but it is rubbish. Worse than rubbish in fact - just knee jerk propaganda.
    This govt has done a whole range of things which are good and nothing at all to do with PR. Quite remarkable since it is a coalition. In particular it has grasped a whole range of nettles from pensions welfare health education public sector jobs and defence which are controversial. There is nothing about it that is to do with PR - indeed some of us despair at the lack of PR.
    Funny how people like you always sound off so piously but are a singularly unwilling to get theor fingers dirty. The only think that is likely to emanate is crude populism - otherwise known in some quarters as PR spin. We have seem a lot of that lately from the spiv in Doncaster.
    Oh dear, what a bad tempered post. Shame it doesn't address what Mr Hyfud and I were talking about. However, if you think Cameron is a good leader you are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I disagree.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Plato said:

    I adore Hugo Rifkind. His My Week columns have me in stitches. I'm going to buy myself his book of these for Christmas. He also intervened for me on Twitter when The Times subscription dept were being an arse. He's a sweetie.

    And Peter Brookes deserves an MBE for Wallace & Gromit re EdM. Those have been a great public service.

    Scott_P said:

    Ed's week is in The Times...

    Wednesday

    We all forget things. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t important. For years, friends, I forgot to get married. And Justine, quite often, forgot to tell me she didn’t mind.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4218985.ece
    FalseFlag said:

    Socrates said:

    saddo said:

    If labour are saying UKIP smeared them, UKIP are probably understating the reality.

    http://rotherhampolitics.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/labour-biraderi-corruption-and-child-sexual-abuse-joining-the-dots/

    Shocking, but how many other towns has this happened in?

    That's the question that's not going away. Where is the PM on this?
    The PM is being responsible and not rabble rousing.
    He's an idiot. Look how Labour and their media chums used the Macpherson inquiry to push their agenda. It's why the right loses.
    You want rabble rousers to succeed in politics?
    Just of late Cameron has quite rightly linked the WLQ to Scottish devolution. I don't think there was any ranting about it unlike in some quarters. It was well argued and dispasionate.
    As for Rotherham, the BBC reported at the time
    ''The government is considering carrying out an inspection of Rotherham Council in the wake of the child abuse scandal, Home Secretary Theresa May has said.
    Mrs May said Communities Secretary Eric Pickles was "minded" to commission the investigation. The authority welcomed the announcement.
    A report last week said more than 1,400 children were abused from 1997 to 2013.
    South Yorkshire Police said it had commissioned an independent inquiry into its handling of the scandal.''
    When in govt you have to behave responsibly. It is acting. two senior figures have resigned. I find it sad that the web hardly encourages truth and information it just encourages blind demagoguery. Whatever else that is its no way to run a country.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699



    Charles said:

    The cumulative vote shares for all council by elections held in September ( circa 19,000 votes ) were as follows

    Lab 29%
    Con 26%
    LDem 22%
    UKIP 13%
    Green 4%
    Others 6%

    and for all council by elections held in the 3 months July-Sept ( circa 64,500 votes ) were

    Con 30%
    Lab 24.5%
    LDem 17%
    UKIP 14.5%
    Green 5%
    Others 9%

    Do you have the equivalent stats for the last time these seats were contested?

    With this sort of analysis it's only the delta or the NEV that's meaningful
    True. My initial thoughts (without the comparative data) is that it sort of looks a bit like a nascent Lib Dem recovery there.
    It is difficult to compare with the previous contests in the seats as some were last fought in 2011/2012/2013 and even in May this year but the figures do generally show the Lib Dems up on their figures in May and UKIP generally down a bit on May and 2013 where they fought the seats before .
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Plato said:

    @Morris_Dancer‌, I've only read Elric books [25yrs ago] as frankly I find the notion of running about with capes and ComicCon swords a bit socially embarrassing, even in the privacy of my own home...

    Can you give me a penpix of yours, so I can buy them without flinching?

    Given I'm a huge crap horror/50s sci-fi and vampire genre lover - I'm really in no position to judge the Dungeons and Dragons/World of Warcraft brigade...

    Miss Anne, don't be afraid to branch out. I hear Thaddeus White* is an author of splendid fantasy. Look how reasonably priced and highly rated his books are:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thaddeus-White/e/B008C6RU98/

    *for newcomers, this is my pen name.

    My Dad was Moorcock's original publisher :)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_&_Busby
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    test
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758



    Charles said:

    The cumulative vote shares for all council by elections held in September ( circa 19,000 votes ) were as follows

    Lab 29%
    Con 26%
    LDem 22%
    UKIP 13%
    Green 4%
    Others 6%

    and for all council by elections held in the 3 months July-Sept ( circa 64,500 votes ) were

    Con 30%
    Lab 24.5%
    LDem 17%
    UKIP 14.5%
    Green 5%
    Others 9%

    Do you have the equivalent stats for the last time these seats were contested?

    With this sort of analysis it's only the delta or the NEV that's meaningful
    True. My initial thoughts (without the comparative data) is that it sort of looks a bit like a nascent Lib Dem recovery there.
    That's why I asked.

    I wouldn't put it past @MarkSenior to publish selective data that showed the LibDems in a good light :)
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    Grandiose said:

    Socrates said:

    saddo said:

    If labour are saying UKIP smeared them, UKIP are probably understating the reality.

    http://rotherhampolitics.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/labour-biraderi-corruption-and-child-sexual-abuse-joining-the-dots/

    Shocking, but how many other towns has this happened in?

    That's the question that's not going away. Where is the PM on this?
    I honestly believed it was a matter of time before Cameron did something.

    But now, like you, I think he has nothing to say on it.I hope not.


    It does not only affect Labour but political correctness. The PM´s favoured dogma.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Mr Hyfud,

    I think the credit for the expression belongs to to Simon Heffer, but Cameron is a shallow "PR Spiv". I really wouldn't piss in his ear if his brain was on fire. His saviour has been that Labour went for an even bigger berk.

    Had Labour been able to elect a real leader they would be miles ahead by now an have the next election in the bag. Unfortunately for them, the odious Brown had cleared out anyone who might have been a threat to him, but of benefit to the country. I really am not sure what evil the UK committed that leaves us with Miliband and Cameron as the top politicians. Neither of them could lead a squad of ducklings across a fire bucket, let alone a nation.

    Like all of us you are entitled to your opinion but it is rubbish. Worse than rubbish in fact - just knee jerk propaganda.
    This govt has done a whole range of things which are good and nothing at all to do with PR. Quite remarkable since it is a coalition. In particular it has grasped a whole range of nettles from pensions welfare health education public sector jobs and defence which are controversial. There is nothing about it that is to do with PR - indeed some of us despair at the lack of PR.
    Funny how people like you always sound off so piously but are a singularly unwilling to get theor fingers dirty. The only think that is likely to emanate is crude populism - otherwise known in some quarters as PR spin. We have seem a lot of that lately from the spiv in Doncaster.
    Oh dear, what a bad tempered post. Shame it doesn't address what Mr Hyfud and I were talking about. However, if you think Cameron is a good leader you are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I disagree.
    Oh so replying to someone who is talking about not pissing in someones ear if their brain was on fire is me being bad tempered is it?
    Big laugh that is.
    Just where is pointing out the real issues that the govt are confronting, as opposed to the fantasy politics so regularly spewed forth by the shallow critics, 'bad tempered'?

    If the real issue is Lord Bell saying how brilliant he was in his day then please stay with it.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Farage live on Parliament TV
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    Socrates said:

    Grandiose said:

    Socrates said:

    saddo said:

    If labour are saying UKIP smeared them, UKIP are probably understating the reality.

    http://rotherhampolitics.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/labour-biraderi-corruption-and-child-sexual-abuse-joining-the-dots/

    Shocking, but how many other towns has this happened in?

    That's the question that's not going away. Where is the PM on this?
    I honestly believed it was a matter of time before Cameron did something.

    But now, like you, I think he has nothing to say on it.I hope not.

    I had assumed he didn't want the horror of the situation to negatively affect the country's mood going into the Scotland referendum. But we're a good week or so past that now, and still nothing. It's amazing. We can have a national police operation for Jimmy Saville but not this? We can have an independent inquiry into newspaper conduct but not thousands of child rapes? Cameron got into power promising to address the problems of "broken Britain", but when it's non-whites committing the crimes he'd rather let it fade into the background. It's a sign of moral collapse, in my opinion.

    Moral collapse or moral weakness.
    And political weakness. Just imagine the capital Labour under Campbell and Mandelson, aided and abetted by the BBC and friends, would have made of this.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    kle4 said:

    Plato said:

    I must disagree there, Mr Putney. IIRC the polls show that Mr Cameron gets top marks as PMish from every social grouping by class or age.


    David - you make it sound like a walk in the park for Labour - It certainly won't be that .... what seems likely to win it for Labour however is Cameron's ineffectiveness, put simply, he just hasn't got it, neither has Miliband for that matter, but people don't realise that yet.
    Incredible as it may seem, the great British Public seems ready and prepared to forgive Labour for delivering the greatest car crash of an economy ever seen in peace time. What this proves beyond doubt is that Labour is now firmly entrenched as the natural party of Government in this country and is likely to remain so for the foreseeable future. God help us all.

    Incumbency bonus, surely? Even if genuine it is amazing how despised the Tory brand is that such an advantage may not matter. Nothing seems to dent the labour brand in the same way even if it is not as strong as it once was.
    kle4 said:

    Plato said:

    I must disagree there, Mr Putney. IIRC the polls show that Mr Cameron gets top marks as PMish from every social grouping by class or age.


    David - you make it sound like a walk in the park for Labour - It certainly won't be that .... what seems likely to win it for Labour however is Cameron's ineffectiveness, put simply, he just hasn't got it, neither has Miliband for that matter, but people don't realise that yet.
    Incredible as it may seem, the great British Public seems ready and prepared to forgive Labour for delivering the greatest car crash of an economy ever seen in peace time. What this proves beyond doubt is that Labour is now firmly entrenched as the natural party of Government in this country and is likely to remain so for the foreseeable future. God help us all.

    Incumbency bonus, surely? Even if genuine it is amazing how despised the Tory brand is that such an advantage may not matter. Nothing seems to dent the labour brand in the same way even if it is not as strong as it once was.
    Despised Tory brand with well-liked leader - versus heart-in-the-right place Labour with inability to run a whelk stall and an unelectable dorky leader.

    General Election 2015: It's Alien v Predator.....
    So, whoever wins we lose.... how comforting.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    Ninoinoz said:

    Socrates said:

    saddo said:

    If labour are saying UKIP smeared them, UKIP are probably understating the reality.

    http://rotherhampolitics.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/labour-biraderi-corruption-and-child-sexual-abuse-joining-the-dots/

    Shocking, but how many other towns has this happened in?

    That's the question that's not going away. Where is the PM on this?
    Probably at a gay wedding.

    I'm not joking. When the Savile scandal exploded, the minister responsible for the BBC, Maria Miller, gave a speech at the Tory party conference. Her subject? Same sex marriage.

    Now, although I'm biased in this, I'm sure I'm not the only one to regard this a rather skewed set of priorities.
    The warped realities of those who rule us are such that gay weddings take precedence over child abuse. Especially if there is an unpleasant (ie not nasty whites) racial angle to the other that also attacks their PC worldview.
  • MikeK said:

    Farage live on Parliament TV

    Fagage showing some v interesting Survation polling - Boston, Thurrock look v good bets for UKIP.
  • Mark Reckless appearing - Has he defected?
  • Mark Reckless.... Parliament Channel now.....UKIP conference
  • Reckless defects!
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Mark Reckless Joins UKIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Blimey.
  • For God's sake.
  • UKIP conference is like the darts. What an atmosphere.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Will the Tories now use the pun that Mark is reckless?
  • MikeK said:

    Will the Tories now use the pun that Mark is reckless?

    I wonder if Dave is purring now?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    OOOhhh... Has he been a bit "Reckless"
  • New Thread
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    The atmosphere in Doncaster must be near ignition heat: ready to explode in rapture.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Very good speech from Reckless actually.
This discussion has been closed.