It's possible that Ed Milliband just has a different view of renewables to other people. For example, he might think in terms of:
Wind (indirect solar) Solar (direct solar) Coal and gas (stored solar)
Sure, coal and gas take millions of years to replenish, but - given a suitable time horizon - they are definitely renewable.
The text of the speech on the Labour Party website does not mention renewables. It says "... take the carbon out of our electricity by 2030."
It strikes me that, although a fifteen year pledge is nonsense in many respects, it does avoid him having to tell people that he intends to start building one or two dozen nuclear power stations during the next Parliament, which is the obvious implication.
Hinkley Point C is due to be in operation in 2023, but I think they're still doing preparatory works before construction begins. believably any nuclear reactors whose construction started before 2020 would be completed in time for Miliband's 2030 pledge.
Right, but you'd have to have government guarantees for a very high price of energy to get that many nuclear plants built. Given that they are capping those prices for five years, there would then be sky rocketing costs to consumers for the next ten. Politically impossible year on year increases, so the government would end up paying. This would dwarf the minute savings from child benefit limits etc.
How does capping energy prices square with getting energy companies to invest in non carbon energy? or getting us to save energy (and carbon)?
It's possible that Ed Milliband just has a different view of renewables to other people. For example, he might think in terms of:
Wind (indirect solar) Solar (direct solar) Coal and gas (stored solar)
Sure, coal and gas take millions of years to replenish, but - given a suitable time horizon - they are definitely renewable.
The text of the speech on the Labour Party website does not mention renewables. It says "... take the carbon out of our electricity by 2030."
It strikes me that, although a fifteen year pledge is nonsense in many respects, it does avoid him having to tell people that he intends to start building one or two dozen nuclear power stations during the next Parliament, which is the obvious implication.
Hinkley Point C is due to be in operation in 2023, but I think they're still doing preparatory works before construction begins. believably any nuclear reactors whose construction started before 2020 would be completed in time for Miliband's 2030 pledge.
Right, but you'd have to have government guarantees for a very high price of energy to get that many nuclear plants built. Given that they are capping those prices for five years, there would then be sky rocketing costs to consumers for the next ten. Politically impossible year on year increases, so the government would end up paying. This would dwarf the minute savings from child benefit limits etc.
How does capping energy prices square with getting energy companies to invest in non carbon energy? or getting us to save energy (and carbon)?
It doesn't. It's economically illiterate.
No amount of rationalization will make Milliband's energy policy make sense.
To the average voter, EV4EL sounds like a political party whigeing about how unfair life is, and wouldn't it be better (for them) if the voting system was changed.
How does unaccountable Scots will decide on taxing English homes' sound??
Is the mansion tax really just on English homes? That would be so monumentally stupid as a policy I can't believe they'd do it.
It's on all homes. However, I'd estimate (and this is just top of the head, but I very much doubt I'm wrong), that 99.9% of homes above 2m in value are in England.
How can it be on all homes when by the time it comes into force it will be a devolved matter?
£2 million homes? How about islands or 'estates'?- do they count? Mull of Kintire is for sale for £3 million? Brian Souter bought belwood house for £1. If he's 'done it up' it might be worth £2 million now. But who values it.
And ... Isn't council tax which is what this is devolved anyway? And Miliband can only talk about the English NHS. Scottish NHS is devolved. Is English tax on English homes going to be channelled to Scotland? Voted by Scottish MPs?
You would think that people would understand the Barnett formula by now.
If Miliband funds an increase in the English NHS budget with a UK-wide tax on blog comments then this will increase the block grant to Scotland by an equivalent amount, in proportion to Scotland's current share of the UK population. Since the Scottish NHS is devolved, the Scottish Parliament could then decide to spend this extra money on subsidising kilts if they so wished.
'A hundred years ago, the international economy was entering the 20th century with the freest flow of goods, services and capital in human history. The previous century had witnessed expansion of global output and trade, and rising living standards in Europe and North America at a pace never before seen in human history. The 20th century then saw just over a decade of continued expansion, followed by the abrupt disruption of trading and financial ties during the First World War. After some steps toward a restoration of the prewar situation, the international economy collapsed during the decade of the Great Depression, and continued to be fragmented during the Second World War....
Idle thought, but I've read that some people think the Seven Year's War could credibly claim to have been the First World War, which would presumably make the scuffle with Napolean WWII, the war in the trenches WWIII and the unfortunate business with Hitler WWIV.
Would this change our view of history to have the two major conflicts of the 20th century no longer identified as uniquely global? The naming of WWI and WWII has always struck me as a bit anomalous, when compared to the naming of so many previous wars.
As far as land battles are concerned the 7 years war was fought in Europe, Canada, the Caribbean, South America, much of India and West Africa. I think it is regarded as being far more extensive in its scope than the Napoleonic wars which (on land) were concentrated primarily in Europe with some small excursions into North Africa.
The self-employed are already significantly subsidised through the the national insurance system. The Coalition's state pension / national insurance reforms will significantly increase that subsidy. I have no idea what he was talking about (didnt see the speech - have only seen that still!) but struggling to see how it relates to pensions so presuming it must be something else?
This is what he said:
To the growing army of our self-employed, five million working people so often the most entrepreneurial, go-getting people in our country -- they don’t want special treatment, but they do deserve a fair shot. Two thirds have no pension. Because of the jobs they do, one in five is stopped from getting a mortgage. It is time to end this modern, 21st century discrimination. The next Labour government will ensure there are equal rights for the self-employed.
No, I've no idea either. Is he proposing a compulsory pay cut for the self-employed?
It just doesnt make sense. And in any case, as I said, the state pension system is already very generous to the self employed and is getting better for them. There was even a short report on the expanding subsidy to them in yesterday's FT.
And I don't want handouts from the government. We do do pretty well with Class 4 NI etc so the last thing I want is more government money spent making yet more people more reliant on handouts.
Quite so. The creepiest bit of the speech was the repeated "you're on your own". Good. I'm an adult, and I want to be on my own and if I'm not, the last people I want to be not on my own with are a lot of government handoutbots.
serious question -what is the detail for the equal rights for self employed?
Logically if self employed had employment rights (from their customers presumably) then they are employees -no? Is Ed going to ban self employment? Are people going to get sued because they do not give a taxi driver notice that they will not be using them again ?
Miliband didn't mention "employment rights". He did mention "pension" and "mortgage".
My guess would be that if there is any policy behind this [not guaranteed] then it will be auto-enrolment of the self-employed in NEST, and somehow forcing the banks to give mortgages to the self-employed. There might also be changes to statutory maternity pay and statutory sick pay to make these work for the self-employed - but I don't know what the current rules are and what sensible/silly changes you might propose to them.
Thanks- As once self employed I never found myself barred from paying into a pension scheme , in fact you could choose from loads . Is this a 'right' or a threat to force the self employed to pay into a pension scheme?
As for mortgages , banks do lend already to the self employed . in fact banks lend a lot of money to small businesses as they are their bread and butter.
It sounds akin to those "rights" divorce lawyers are so keen for cohabitants to have that mean that they'd need a lawyer when they separate. They are in fact not rights but legal exposures.
To the average voter, EV4EL sounds like a political party whigeing about how unfair life is, and wouldn't it be better (for them) if the voting system was changed.
How does unaccountable Scots will decide on taxing English homes' sound??
Is the mansion tax really just on English homes? That would be so monumentally stupid as a policy I can't believe they'd do it.
It's on all homes. However, I'd estimate (and this is just top of the head, but I very much doubt I'm wrong), that 99.9% of homes above 2m in value are in England.
How can it be on all homes when by the time it comes into force it will be a devolved matter?
£2 million homes? How about islands or 'estates'?- do they count? Mull of Kintire is for sale for £3 million? Brian Souter bought belwood house for £1. If he's 'done it up' it might be worth £2 million now. But who values it.
Anyone with a mansion and some land will split them... at least legally... A house in the countryside on its own is very rarely worth 2m. With some farmland it's a very different story.
Anyone who begrudges the NHS money from this tax really is beyond saving and sort of makes Labour's point stronger. Anyone really think the electorate will not be in favour of a mansion tax really should get out more.
I'm stunned that the Standard hasn't decreed the speech a disaster.
I read on here that it was the worst speech ever except for Ed's other speeches.
To be fair they wrote the article before he made it, having seen the text only
It was linked on here about half an hour before he came on stage
It was the room's fault!!!
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4m Senior Lab sources say Miliband speech atmosphere suffered from hall being too wide, rather than audience hemmed in.
Well, yes, everyone knows the Manchester venue is bad for soaring oratory. But then again they booked it knowing the date of the GE, so no excuse at all.
@jameschappers: .@johnrentoul on Miliband speech: 'Lamentable, weak, clichéd, embarrassing, uninspiring.. a complete and final disaster'. Get off the fence!
Mr. Bond, that co-habitation legal right to property proposals always drives me mad. Wouldn't affect me, but the injustice of it is palpable.
Mr. Owls, more spending on the NHS will be popular. If the tax is portrayed as inflicted by Labour Scottish MPs on the English it may not play as well as it otherwise might.
To the average voter, EV4EL sounds like a political party whigeing about how unfair life is, and wouldn't it be better (for them) if the voting system was changed.
How does unaccountable Scots will decide on taxing English homes' sound??
Is the mansion tax really just on English homes? That would be so monumentally stupid as a policy I can't believe they'd do it.
It's on all homes. However, I'd estimate (and this is just top of the head, but I very much doubt I'm wrong), that 99.9% of homes above 2m in value are in England.
How can it be on all homes when by the time it comes into force it will be a devolved matter?
£2 million homes? How about islands or 'estates'?- do they count? Mull of Kintire is for sale for £3 million? Brian Souter bought belwood house for £1. If he's 'done it up' it might be worth £2 million now. But who values it.
Anyone with a mansion and some land will split them... at least legally... A house in the countryside on its own is very rarely worth 2m. With some farmland it's a very different story.
Anyone who begrudges the NHS money from this tax really is beyond saving and sort of makes Labour's point stronger. Anyone really think the electorate will not be in favour of a mansion tax really should get out more.
The electorate is always in favour of someone else paying more tax so they can have better services.
So I'm not sure what your point is...
Oh yes, EVIL TORY MONSTERS LOOK! EVIL TORY MONSTERS WANT TO PRIVATISE THE NHS BY SELLING IT TO THEIR HEDGE FUND MATES!!! LOOK EVIL TORY MONSTERS!!!
When did the party conferences change from the usual seaside arrangement? As someone who used to live near the ICC in Birmingham I remember it being a nightmare to get around that part of town during the Tory conference.
To the average voter, EV4EL sounds like a political party whigeing about how unfair life is, and wouldn't it be better (for them) if the voting system was changed.
How does unaccountable Scots will decide on taxing English homes' sound??
Is the mansion tax really just on English homes? That would be so monumentally stupid as a policy I can't believe they'd do it.
It's on all homes. However, I'd estimate (and this is just top of the head, but I very much doubt I'm wrong), that 99.9% of homes above 2m in value are in England.
How can it be on all homes when by the time it comes into force it will be a devolved matter?
£2 million homes? How about islands or 'estates'?- do they count? Mull of Kintire is for sale for £3 million? Brian Souter bought belwood house for £1. If he's 'done it up' it might be worth £2 million now. But who values it.
Anyone with a mansion and some land will split them... at least legally... A house in the countryside on its own is very rarely worth 2m. With some farmland it's a very different story.
Anyone who begrudges the NHS money from this tax really is beyond saving and sort of makes Labour's point stronger. Anyone really think the electorate will not be in favour of a mansion tax really should get out more.
The electorate is always in favour of someone else paying more tax so they can have better services.
So I'm not sure what your point is...
Oh yes, EVIL TORY MONSTERS LOOK! EVIL TORY MONSTERS WANT TO PRIVATISE THE NHS BY SELLING IT TO THEIR HEDGE FUND MATES!!! LOOK EVIL TORY MONSTERS!!!
To the average voter, EV4EL sounds like a political party whigeing about how unfair life is, and wouldn't it be better (for them) if the voting system was changed.
How does unaccountable Scots will decide on taxing English homes' sound??
Is the mansion tax really just on English homes? That would be so monumentally stupid as a policy I can't believe they'd do it.
It's on all homes. However, I'd estimate (and this is just top of the head, but I very much doubt I'm wrong), that 99.9% of homes above 2m in value are in England.
How can it be on all homes when by the time it comes into force it will be a devolved matter?
£2 million homes? How about islands or 'estates'?- do they count? Mull of Kintire is for sale for £3 million? Brian Souter bought belwood house for £1. If he's 'done it up' it might be worth £2 million now. But who values it.
Anyone with a mansion and some land will split them... at least legally... A house in the countryside on its own is very rarely worth 2m. With some farmland it's a very different story.
Anyone who begrudges the NHS money from this tax really is beyond saving and sort of makes Labour's point stronger. Anyone really think the electorate will not be in favour of a mansion tax really should get out more.
I have no interest in raising more tax and splashing it on the NHS without results. We don't want an NHS Wales thank you very much.
Instead we need a better NHS, more efficient, ever improving in outcomes. You don't get that from "tax the rich (even more)" envy-driven politics.
To the average voter, EV4EL sounds like a political party whigeing about how unfair life is, and wouldn't it be better (for them) if the voting system was changed.
How does unaccountable Scots will decide on taxing English homes' sound??
Is the mansion tax really just on English homes? That would be so monumentally stupid as a policy I can't believe they'd do it.
It's on all homes. However, I'd estimate (and this is just top of the head, but I very much doubt I'm wrong), that 99.9% of homes above 2m in value are in England.
How can it be on all homes when by the time it comes into force it will be a devolved matter?
£2 million homes? How about islands or 'estates'?- do they count? Mull of Kintire is for sale for £3 million? Brian Souter bought belwood house for £1. If he's 'done it up' it might be worth £2 million now. But who values it.
Anyone with a mansion and some land will split them... at least legally... A house in the countryside on its own is very rarely worth 2m. With some farmland it's a very different story.
Anyone who begrudges the NHS money from this tax really is beyond saving and sort of makes Labour's point stronger. Anyone really think the electorate will not be in favour of a mansion tax really should get out more.
The electorate is always in favour of someone else paying more tax so they can have better services.
So I'm not sure what your point is...
Oh yes, EVIL TORY MONSTERS LOOK! EVIL TORY MONSTERS WANT TO PRIVATISE THE NHS BY SELLING IT TO THEIR HEDGE FUND MATES!!! LOOK EVIL TORY MONSTERS!!!
I think I've got it now.
Thank you.
I am all in favour of increased spending on my salary paid for by a tax on monocles and silver spoons.
So what have we got from Miliband:- an utterly inadequate piece of gesture politics to save the crumbling NHS, electoral kiddy fiddling, the most offensive despicable type of tax there is (an asset tax), major interference in the housing market, more green insanity, some deranged piece of dishonesty aimed at the self-employed (presumably aimed at killing them off) and delusional promises to the low paid.
Yep same old Labour rubbish....
Why is an asset tax more despicable than an employment tax?
I'd rather tax non-productive assets which are over-valued as a result of market failure - we would all benefit from lower house prices - and use the proceeds to reduce more damaging taxes.
Because it enshrines the principle of expropriation. Other than of degree there is nothing between a tax on houses above £2 million and a 100% tax on houses above £100k. Why is it on houses and not on art, or classic cars, or companies? What is the different principle that makes it acceptable?
Ciao and Buena sera from Stromboli, which is, as I write, erupting 300 metres to my left, pouring a mile of golden lava into the dark and silent sea. Spectacular!
Mansion taxes will be politically popular. "Scottish votes for English taxes" will be politically catastrophic.
It occurred to me today how, if Labour win, but they don't have a parliamentary majority in rUK, they will be crippled. Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
11
That's the magic number that Labour needs to get more of. 11 more English (and Welsh) seats if you exclude Scotland.
To the average voter, EV4EL sounds like a political party whigeing about how unfair life is, and wouldn't it be better (for them) if the voting system was changed.
How does unaccountable Scots will decide on taxing English homes' sound??
Is the mansion tax really just on English homes? That would be so monumentally stupid as a policy I can't believe they'd do it.
It's on all homes. However, I'd estimate (and this is just top of the head, but I very much doubt I'm wrong), that 99.9% of homes above 2m in value are in England.
How can it be on all homes when by the time it comes into force it will be a devolved matter?
£2 million homes? How about islands or 'estates'?- do they count? Mull of Kintire is for sale for £3 million? Brian Souter bought belwood house for £1. If he's 'done it up' it might be worth £2 million now. But who values it.
Anyone with a mansion and some land will split them... at least legally... A house in the countryside on its own is very rarely worth 2m. With some farmland it's a very different story.
Anyone who begrudges the NHS money from this tax really is beyond saving and sort of makes Labour's point stronger. Anyone really think the electorate will not be in favour of a mansion tax really should get out more.
When did the NHS become a religion to you? Was it before or after you retired early from it?
Disastrous news on UK borrowing.Osborne's chances for the leadership fade away I guess he will withdraw himself from the june 2015 betting market.This is bad,very bad.
So what have we got from Miliband:- an utterly inadequate piece of gesture politics to save the crumbling NHS, electoral kiddy fiddling, the most offensive despicable type of tax there is (an asset tax), major interference in the housing market, more green insanity, some deranged piece of dishonesty aimed at the self-employed (presumably aimed at killing them off) and delusional promises to the low paid.
Yep same old Labour rubbish....
Why is an asset tax more despicable than an employment tax?
I'd rather tax non-productive assets which are over-valued as a result of market failure - we would all benefit from lower house prices - and use the proceeds to reduce more damaging taxes.
Because it enshrines the principle of expropriation. Other than of degree there is nothing between a tax on houses above £2 million and a 100% tax on houses above £100k. Why is it on houses and not on art, or classic cars, or companies? What is the different principle that makes it acceptable?
I'm afraid Charles is right.
Income tax is a tax on working. It discourages working just as a tax on cigarettes discourages smoking.
A tax on inefficient use of capital encourages efficient capital allocation.
Look: given government spending, we need to find taxes that bring in c. 45% of GDP. It's not entirely stupid to spread it around.
(Of course, my preferred option is to spend less. In 1912, before the First World War, government spending was 6% of GDP. We should aim to be generous, compared to then. How about 12% of GDP as a target?)
Cameron Caught on Camera Queen “Purred” at No Vote, “I Want to Sue” Polling Companies
“The definition of relief is being Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and calling the Queen and saying ‘It’s alright, it’s okay’. That was something. She purred down the line… But it should never have been that close, it wasn’t in the end. There was a time in the middle of the campaign when it felt… I’ve said I want to find these polling companies and I want to sue them for my stomach ulcers because of what they put me through. It was very nervous moments.”
Blimey - that's amazing! Fascinating to hear politicians doing what they think is private small talk. Probably a bit of bluster there on Cameron['s part, it's probably not true either about ringing the Queen or the polls giving him stomach ulcers, but he has said it and been caught on camera saying it.
And it says a lot about David Cameron. And his attitude to Scotland and the indy ref as a whole.
This is quite a big story isn't it?
One of those instances when the classic case 'you never know who's listening' strikes.
@Richard_Nabavi "According to the Guardian, the student is one Beatrice Bazel, "a researcher on Victorian women’s bodies in art."
We are assuming here that it is "art" she is studying, which is quite likely, but is your point that she shouldn't study art, because it is unlikely to turn a profit?
She sounds like the new Caroline lucas with her Phd in Medieval Chick-lit.
Disastrous news on UK borrowing.Osborne's chances for the leadership fade away I guess he will withdraw himself from the june 2015 betting market.This is bad,very bad.
Ciao and Buena sera from Stromboli, which is, as I write, erupting 300 metres to my left, pouring a mile of golden lava into the dark and silent sea. Spectacular!
Mansion taxes will be politically popular. "Scottish votes for English taxes" will be politically catastrophic.
It occurred to me today how, if Labour win, but they don't have a parliamentary majority in rUK, they will be crippled. Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
The energy from the volcano is tremendous.Great to bathe in volcanic waters,very healing.
Ciao and Buena sera from Stromboli, which is, as I write, erupting 300 metres to my left, pouring a mile of golden lava into the dark and silent sea. Spectacular!
Mansion taxes will be politically popular. "Scottish votes for English taxes" will be politically catastrophic.
It occurred to me today how, if Labour win, but they don't have a parliamentary majority in rUK, they will be crippled. Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
11
That's the magic number that Labour needs to get more of. 11 more English (and Welsh) seats if you exclude Scotland.
Welsh seats won't count if Wales gets more devolution too.
To the average voter, EV4EL sounds like a political party whigeing about how unfair life is, and wouldn't it be better (for them) if the voting system was changed.
How does unaccountable Scots will decide on taxing English homes' sound??
Is the mansion tax really just on English homes? That would be so monumentally stupid as a policy I can't believe they'd do it.
It's on all homes. However, I'd estimate (and this is just top of the head, but I very much doubt I'm wrong), that 99.9% of homes above 2m in value are in England.
How can it be on all homes when by the time it comes into force it will be a devolved matter?
£2 million homes? How about islands or 'estates'?- do they count? Mull of Kintire is for sale for £3 million? Brian Souter bought belwood house for £1. If he's 'done it up' it might be worth £2 million now. But who values it.
Anyone with a mansion and some land will split them... at least legally... A house in the countryside on its own is very rarely worth 2m. With some farmland it's a very different story.
Anyone who begrudges the NHS money from this tax really is beyond saving and sort of makes Labour's point stronger. Anyone really think the electorate will not be in favour of a mansion tax really should get out more.
The NHS is not a little third-world orphan girl with great big goo-goo eyes, so no need to be mawkish about it. How much of your own money do you voluntarily donate to it, over and above taxes, each year?
Ciao and Buena sera from Stromboli, which is, as I write, erupting 300 metres to my left, pouring a mile of golden lava into the dark and silent sea. Spectacular!
Mansion taxes will be politically popular. "Scottish votes for English taxes" will be politically catastrophic.
It occurred to me today how, if Labour win, but they don't have a parliamentary majority in rUK, they will be crippled. Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
11
That's the magic number that Labour needs to get more of. 11 more English (and Welsh) seats if you exclude Scotland.
Welsh seats won't count if Wales gets more devolution too.
The Welsh didn't exactly fall over themselves in favour of more devolution last time. And the Assembly has hardly been a great success.
What do we do if the Welsh say "we don't want more devolution! we'd rather be run by london than cardiff!"?
Ciao and Buena sera from Stromboli, which is, as I write, erupting 300 metres to my left, pouring a mile of golden lava into the dark and silent sea. Spectacular!
Mansion taxes will be politically popular. "Scottish votes for English taxes" will be politically catastrophic.
It occurred to me today how, if Labour win, but they don't have a parliamentary majority in rUK, they will be crippled. Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
Which is why you need an English parliament and equal devolved powers to every home nation. Otherwise every government that gets in on Welsh and Scots votes will seem illegitimate to the English. And if their power is broken because of that, it will piss off the Welsh and Scots so they feel marginalised. An English parliament is the only thing that will lance the boil. And there's no good reason against it.
Ciao and Buena sera from Stromboli, which is, as I write, erupting 300 metres to my left, pouring a mile of golden lava into the dark and silent sea. Spectacular!
Mansion taxes will be politically popular. "Scottish votes for English taxes" will be politically catastrophic.
It occurred to me today how, if Labour win, but they don't have a parliamentary majority in rUK, they will be crippled. Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
11
That's the magic number that Labour needs to get more of. 11 more English (and Welsh) seats if you exclude Scotland.
Welsh seats won't count if Wales gets more devolution too.
The Welsh didn't exactly fall over themselves in favour of more devolution last time. And the Assembly has hardly been a great success.
What do we do if the Welsh say "we don't want more devolution! we'd rather be run by london than cardiff!"?
Whatever judgment you and I make on the Welsh assembly, support for more devolution is much stronger than it was in 1999.
The fudge to date has allowed the union to almost break up. The only thing now that works is a symmetrical system.
Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
According to labour posters, voters are much more interested in Kim Kardasian's lipstick than this issue.
Ciao and Buena sera from Stromboli, which is, as I write, erupting 300 metres to my left, pouring a mile of golden lava into the dark and silent sea. Spectacular!
Mansion taxes will be politically popular. "Scottish votes for English taxes" will be politically catastrophic.
It occurred to me today how, if Labour win, but they don't have a parliamentary majority in rUK, they will be crippled. Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
11
That's the magic number that Labour needs to get more of. 11 more English (and Welsh) seats if you exclude Scotland.
Welsh seats won't count if Wales gets more devolution too.
The Welsh didn't exactly fall over themselves in favour of more devolution last time. And the Assembly has hardly been a great success.
What do we do if the Welsh say "we don't want more devolution! we'd rather be run by london than cardiff!"?
Whatever judgment you and I make on the Welsh assembly, support for more devolution is much stronger than it was in 1999.
The fudge to date has allowed the union to almost break up. The only thing now that works is a symmetrical system.
I agree re symmetry.
But it does raise the question: what happens if the Welsh did say no to further devolution? Would we force it on them?
Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
According to labour posters, voters are much more interested in Kim Kardasian's lipstick than this issue.
I am not a Labour poster. I just think you misjudge the public's interest in constitutional affairs. As did David Owen and David Steel in the 1980s.
Ed's solution to the deficit - forget it... I hate this phrase but "you couldn't make it up"... there must be a betting angle and this being mentioned in the Tory conference speeches by Cam and/or Ozzie?
Matthew Holehouse@mattholehouse·5 mins Weird: three paragraphs about the deficit and debt interest in release of Miliband's speech were never actually delivered. Did he forget?
George Eaton@georgeeaton·2 mins Original version of Miliband's speech did have a section on the deficit. But it was forgotten in no-notes address.
James Forsyth@JGForsyth·2 mins The danger of the no notes speech. @georgeeaton reports that Miliband simply forgot section on the deficit
Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
According to labour posters, voters are much more interested in Kim Kardasian's lipstick than this issue.
I am not a Labour poster. I just think you misjudge the public's interest in constitutional affairs. As did David Owen and David Steel in the 1980s.
And Nick Clegg even more recently. Constitutions are something to talk about when politicians don't have any money.
Ed's solution to the deficit - forget it... I hate this phrase but "you couldn't make it up"... there must be a betting angle and this being mentioned in the Tory conference speeches by Cam and/or Ozzie?
Matthew Holehouse@mattholehouse·5 mins Weird: three paragraphs about the deficit and debt interest in release of Miliband's speech were never actually delivered. Did he forget?
George Eaton@georgeeaton·2 mins Original version of Miliband's speech did have a section on the deficit. But it was forgotten in no-notes address.
James Forsyth@JGForsyth·2 mins The danger of the no notes speech. @georgeeaton reports that Miliband simply forgot section on the deficit
Lib Dem Press Office@LibDemPress·59 secs We wish we could forget about the deficit Labour left us like Ed Miliband did today, but we're the ones dealing with it. #strongereconomy
To the average voter, EV4EL sounds like a political party whigeing about how unfair life is, and wouldn't it be better (for them) if the voting system was changed.
How does unaccountable Scots will decide on taxing English homes' sound??
Is the mansion tax really just on English homes? That would be so monumentally stupid as a policy I can't believe they'd do it.
It's on all homes. However, I'd estimate (and this is just top of the head, but I very much doubt I'm wrong), that 99.9% of homes above 2m in value are in England.
How can it be on all homes when by the time it comes into force it will be a devolved matter?
£2 million homes? How about islands or 'estates'?- do they count? Mull of Kintire is for sale for £3 million? Brian Souter bought belwood house for £1. If he's 'done it up' it might be worth £2 million now. But who values it.
Anyone with a mansion and some land will split them... at least legally... A house in the countryside on its own is very rarely worth 2m. With some farmland it's a very different story.
Anyone who begrudges the NHS money from this tax really is beyond saving and sort of makes Labour's point stronger. Anyone really think the electorate will not be in favour of a mansion tax really should get out more.
When did the NHS become a religion to you? Was it before or after you retired early from it?
From birth I think. Sheffield Wednesday about 5 years later. Good to be passionate about something. What are you passionate about defending multi millionaires or them foreigners?
Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
According to labour posters, voters are much more interested in Kim Kardasian's lipstick than this issue.
I am not a Labour poster. I just think you misjudge the public's interest in constitutional affairs. As did David Owen and David Steel in the 1980s.
If people think they are being taken advantage of that can engage their attention very quickly indeed; if you think about it parliamentary expenses is sort of a constitutional matter. More powers to Scotland without EV4EL could very well feel like being taken advantage of to English voters.
Ed's solution to the deficit - forget it... I hate this phrase but "you couldn't make it up"... there must be a betting angle and this being mentioned in the Tory conference speeches by Cam and/or Ozzie?
Matthew Holehouse@mattholehouse·5 mins Weird: three paragraphs about the deficit and debt interest in release of Miliband's speech were never actually delivered. Did he forget?
George Eaton@georgeeaton·2 mins Original version of Miliband's speech did have a section on the deficit. But it was forgotten in no-notes address.
James Forsyth@JGForsyth·2 mins The danger of the no notes speech. @georgeeaton reports that Miliband simply forgot section on the deficit
He literally forgot the deficit.
That's a mettyfor
Says a lot really...most important thing to the long term future of the country, Ed, what you think, erhhh, erhhhh, I know it is errrhhhh....is the answer I stood up to Murdoch?
Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
According to labour posters, voters are much more interested in Kim Kardasian's lipstick than this issue.
I am not a Labour poster. I just think you misjudge the public's interest in constitutional affairs. As did David Owen and David Steel in the 1980s.
It's not just constitutional reform, however. It's "your group are getting screwed over to the advantage of another group". The strength of that argument depends on the strength of that group identity, and "the English" have a much stronger identity than "people who live in safe seats".
Lib Dem Press Office@LibDemPress·59 secs We wish we could forget about the deficit Labour left us like Ed Miliband did today, but we're the ones dealing with it. #strongereconomy
LibDem Press Office@LibDemPress 32 secs Correction: when we said "we", we actually meant "Danny Alexander". The rest of our "front bench" are fucking useless.
Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
According to labour posters, voters are much more interested in Kim Kardasian's lipstick than this issue.
Lib Dem Press Office@LibDemPress·59 secs We wish we could forget about the deficit Labour left us like Ed Miliband did today, but we're the ones dealing with it. #strongereconomy
LibDem Press Office@LibDemPress 32 secs Correction: when we said "we", we actually meant "Danny Alexander". The rest of our "front bench" are fucking useless.
Ed's solution to the deficit - forget it... I hate this phrase but "you couldn't make it up"... there must be a betting angle and this being mentioned in the Tory conference speeches by Cam and/or Ozzie?
Matthew Holehouse@mattholehouse·5 mins Weird: three paragraphs about the deficit and debt interest in release of Miliband's speech were never actually delivered. Did he forget?
George Eaton@georgeeaton·2 mins Original version of Miliband's speech did have a section on the deficit. But it was forgotten in no-notes address.
James Forsyth@JGForsyth·2 mins The danger of the no notes speech. @georgeeaton reports that Miliband simply forgot section on the deficit
Aetiology of memory deficit. The final consideration is the cause of the memory deficit. Neurodegenerative, inflammatory/infectious, metabolic, vascular, traumatic, episodic, and endocrine processes can all produce memory impairment through compromise of the limbic and prefrontal circuits.
Looks like with all the other stuff going on, Ed might get lucky and nobody will notice he made a balls up of his speech and he will just get his soundbite.
Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
According to labour posters, voters are much more interested in Kim Kardasian's lipstick than this issue.
I am not a Labour poster. I just think you misjudge the public's interest in constitutional affairs. As did David Owen and David Steel in the 1980s.
It's not just constitutional reform, however. It's "your group are getting screwed over to the advantage of another group". The strength of that argument depends on the strength of that group identity, and "the English" have a much stronger identity than "people who live in safe seats".
I wish you were right.
However, I think it can't resonate ahead of the fact with the British electorate. That something *might* happen is simply a very nebulous. No-one today cares that London and the South East subsidises the whole country. Why should they care that Scotland is a net beneficiary under Barnett?
I support EV4EL. I support STV. I support Lords reform (of some sort).
But I am not naive enough to think that more than 1% of people in real life share my concerns. If you bleat on about something that does not affect people, then those people will assume you have nothing to say about the things that really do bother them.
@JGForsyth Miliband forgot immigration as well says @georgeeaton 2 of the worst things for him to forget. No notes helped him in past but hurt him 2day
@JGForsyth Miliband forgot immigration as well says @georgeeaton 2 of the worst things for him to forget. No notes helped him in past but hurt him 2day
Another minor thing to forget to mention, i mean literally nobody cares about the state of the economy and immigration levels, at all..
Evening Standard might have to issue an apology for their report bearing no resemblance to what was actually said.
@JGForsyth Miliband forgot immigration as well says @georgeeaton 2 of the worst things for him to forget. No notes helped him in past but hurt him 2day
Ah, so that's why it was shorter than billed (not that anyone was complaining about that, to be fair).
When BBC political correspondents describe Miliband's speech as appealing to the core vote, you know it's a clunker.
Eddie Mair reduced Burnham to confused dribbling on Radio 4 PM. He's got no real idea about the numbers; Labour's proposed NHS reorganisation off to a confusing start..
Ciao and Buena sera from Stromboli, which is, as I write, erupting 300 metres to my left, pouring a mile of golden lava into the dark and silent sea. Spectacular!
Mansion taxes will be politically popular. "Scottish votes for English taxes" will be politically catastrophic.
It occurred to me today how, if Labour win, but they don't have a parliamentary majority in rUK, they will be crippled. Everything a Miliband government does will be seen through this new prism: as an outrageous imposition by Scots Labour MPs on the English. Immigration, welfare, europe, everything.
11
That's the magic number that Labour needs to get more of. 11 more English (and Welsh) seats if you exclude Scotland.
Welsh seats won't count if Wales gets more devolution too.
Labour would only need 8 more seats in England if you exclude Scotland/Wales/NI.
Well Miliband spin team going to have to work all their connections this evening to spin why 2 of the most important issues in British politics just slipped the great leaders mind.
But then I guess Miliband has form, all that bleating about standing up to Murdoch, while if he just did a quick google search he would remember that he really "hearts" The Sun....
No doubt the Lab conference has been a bit flat this year - also not one of Ed's greatest speeches although hardly as bad as the usual suspects paint it on here (they did the same last year and the year before when it was widely hailed as brilliant)
Policies look interesting. £2 million is a big house even in London unless it is in a prime area like W8 or W11. Carbon stuff is catnip to the Red Liberals. Probably not worth bothering with the Evel stuff in a speech as it's meaningless and boring to 99% of the electorate.
'A hundred years ago, the international economy was entering the 20th century with the freest flow of goods, services and capital in human history. The previous century had witnessed expansion of global output and trade, and rising living standards in Europe and North America at a pace never before seen in human history. The 20th century then saw just over a decade of continued expansion, followed by the abrupt disruption of trading and financial ties during the First World War. After some steps toward a restoration of the prewar situation, the international economy collapsed during the decade of the Great Depression, and continued to be fragmented during the Second World War....
Idle thought, but I've read that some people think the Seven Year's War could credibly claim to have been the First World War, which would presumably make the scuffle with Napolean WWII, the war in the trenches WWIII and the unfortunate business with Hitler WWIV.
Would this change our view of history to have the two major conflicts of the 20th century no longer identified as uniquely global? The naming of WWI and WWII has always struck me as a bit anomalous, when compared to the naming of so many previous wars.
As far as land battles are concerned the 7 years war was fought in Europe, Canada, the Caribbean, South America, much of India and West Africa. I think it is regarded as being far more extensive in its scope than the Napoleonic wars which (on land) were concentrated primarily in Europe with some small excursions into North Africa.
My view is that the first world war was between the Greeks and the Persians. I mean the known civilised world was then very small. That there was another, unknown, civilisation on the other side of Asia doesn't alter the fact that the major powers in Europe and Asia Minor were going at it hammer and tongs.
The big theme of his speech was not the threats the country faces - he didn't mention the deficit once and he didn't say whether he would back RAF strikes on IS forces in Iraq or Syria - but his repeated insistence that together the country could build a better future
It was a speech built on a single word - together - repeated over 50 times and a single theme - the claim that Labour, unlike the Tories, would not allow people to struggle on their own.
There was also a single new policy announcement to capture it all. Extra funding for the NHS paid for, he claimed, not by extra borrowing or extra taxes on ordinary people but by taxing expensive houses, taxing the tobacco firms and hitting tax avoiding hedge funds.
There was, of course, much more than that. He spelt out Labour's six 10-year goals over more than an hour.
Some in the audience struggled to stay awake but Ed Miliband won't worry about that. He believes that what will win him the next election is not detailed policy but a different philosophy about how Britain ought to be governed.
So what have we got from Miliband:- an utterly inadequate piece of gesture politics to save the crumbling NHS, electoral kiddy fiddling, the most offensive despicable type of tax there is (an asset tax), major interference in the housing market, more green insanity, some deranged piece of dishonesty aimed at the self-employed (presumably aimed at killing them off) and delusional promises to the low paid.
Yep same old Labour rubbish....
Why is an asset tax more despicable than an employment tax?
I'd rather tax non-productive assets which are over-valued as a result of market failure - we would all benefit from lower house prices - and use the proceeds to reduce more damaging taxes.
Because it enshrines the principle of expropriation. Other than of degree there is nothing between a tax on houses above £2 million and a 100% tax on houses above £100k. Why is it on houses and not on art, or classic cars, or companies? What is the different principle that makes it acceptable?
I'm afraid Charles is right.
Income tax is a tax on working. It discourages working just as a tax on cigarettes discourages smoking.
A tax on inefficient use of capital encourages efficient capital allocation.
Look: given government spending, we need to find taxes that bring in c. 45% of GDP. It's not entirely stupid to spread it around.
(Of course, my preferred option is to spend less. In 1912, before the First World War, government spending was 6% of GDP. We should aim to be generous, compared to then. How about 12% of GDP as a target?)
Inefficient, based on what precisely? I think the market is the best determinant of that.
Non resident property is charged CGT already. Add in stamp duty and council tax too.
We aren't a southern European country where people avoid income tax, so why do we need a tax on assets? An Englishman's home is his castle and should be left well alone.
Listened to Ed Miliband's speech on 5 Live and burst out laughing when Richard Bacon said 'is that the end' with 15 minutes to go, and then after Ed had droned on for another 5 minutes 'is that now the end' with Ed having another 10 minutes to go!
Immigration benefits our country but those who come here have a responsibility to learn English and earn their way. And employers have a responsibility not to exploit migrant workers and undercut wages.
And the deficit:
So as Ed Balls announced yesterday, Labour’s plan is based on a tough new approach. Eliminating the deficit as soon as possible in the next parliament. Getting the national debt falling. And no proposals for additional borrowing.
So what have we got from Miliband:- an utterly inadequate piece of gesture politics to save the crumbling NHS, electoral kiddy fiddling, the most offensive despicable type of tax there is (an asset tax), major interference in the housing market, more green insanity, some deranged piece of dishonesty aimed at the self-employed (presumably aimed at killing them off) and delusional promises to the low paid.
Yep same old Labour rubbish....
Why is an asset tax more despicable than an employment tax?
I'd rather tax non-productive assets which are over-valued as a result of market failure - we would all benefit from lower house prices - and use the proceeds to reduce more damaging taxes.
Houses are productive, people live in them. Good store of wealth too.
Who is to determine productive and unproductive, value or over valued?
Comments
" WWI and WWII has always struck me as a bit anomalous"
I think it refers more to the scale rather than the scope.
Dan Hodges@DPJHodges·1 min
Ed Milband didn't even try to present himself as a future Prime Minister > Telegraph > http://tinyurl.com/l99rzdp
Oliver Kamm@OliverKamm·2 mins
In a nuanced & balanced judgment, @JohnRentoul describes EdMil speech as complete & utter disaster for Labour Party: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/let-me-list-everything-and-anything-that-was-positive-about-ed-milibands-speech-9751433.html …
No amount of rationalization will make Milliband's energy policy make sense.
If Miliband funds an increase in the English NHS budget with a UK-wide tax on blog comments then this will increase the block grant to Scotland by an equivalent amount, in proportion to Scotland's current share of the UK population. Since the Scottish NHS is devolved, the Scottish Parliament could then decide to spend this extra money on subsidising kilts if they so wished.
Paul Waugh@paulwaugh·4m
Senior Lab sources say Miliband speech atmosphere suffered from hall being too wide, rather than audience hemmed in.
Anyone really think the electorate will not be in favour of a mansion tax really should get out more.
In other news, snow found on Everest.
Mr. Owls, more spending on the NHS will be popular. If the tax is portrayed as inflicted by Labour Scottish MPs on the English it may not play as well as it otherwise might.
So I'm not sure what your point is...
Oh yes, EVIL TORY MONSTERS LOOK! EVIL TORY MONSTERS WANT TO PRIVATISE THE NHS BY SELLING IT TO THEIR HEDGE FUND MATES!!! LOOK EVIL TORY MONSTERS!!!
I think I've got it now.
Thank you.
Instead we need a better NHS, more efficient, ever improving in outcomes. You don't get that from "tax the rich (even more)" envy-driven politics.
Cameron looking a complete idiot as well.
http://the-tap.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/new-anti-fracking-poster-camerons.html
A marvellous man is that Ed Miliband!
http://labourlist.org/2014/09/tackling-climate-change-will-be-a-priority-for-a-labour-government/
If anyone can see any actual policy in here, please let us know. And I write as someone who wants action on this.
That's the magic number that Labour needs to get more of. 11 more English (and Welsh) seats if you exclude Scotland.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-public-borrowing-jumps-to-116-billion-in-august-9750927.html
Income tax is a tax on working. It discourages working just as a tax on cigarettes discourages smoking.
A tax on inefficient use of capital encourages efficient capital allocation.
Look: given government spending, we need to find taxes that bring in c. 45% of GDP. It's not entirely stupid to spread it around.
(Of course, my preferred option is to spend less. In 1912, before the First World War, government spending was 6% of GDP. We should aim to be generous, compared to then. How about 12% of GDP as a target?)
watching Ed with the audience behind him is like watching The Jerry Springer Show...today we look at a man who loses.
Idiotically clumsy from Dave.
:-)
By the way, how would propose someone withdraw themselves from a betting market?
What do we do if the Welsh say "we don't want more devolution! we'd rather be run by london than cardiff!"?
The fudge to date has allowed the union to almost break up. The only thing now that works is a symmetrical system.
According to labour posters, voters are much more interested in Kim Kardasian's lipstick than this issue.
Without a coat.
Sigh.
But it does raise the question: what happens if the Welsh did say no to further devolution? Would we force it on them?
I did not mean you. Bobajob mentioned kim kardasian's lippy...
Matthew Holehouse@mattholehouse·5 mins
Weird: three paragraphs about the deficit and debt interest in release of Miliband's speech were never actually delivered. Did he forget?
George Eaton@georgeeaton·2 mins
Original version of Miliband's speech did have a section on the deficit. But it was forgotten in no-notes address.
James Forsyth@JGForsyth·2 mins
The danger of the no notes speech. @georgeeaton reports that Miliband simply forgot section on the deficit
That's a mettyfor
'Anyone who begrudges the NHS money from this tax really is beyond saving and sort of makes Labour's point stronger.'
Always popular provided that it's someone else paying the extra tax.
Lib Dem Press Office@LibDemPress·59 secs
We wish we could forget about the deficit Labour left us like Ed Miliband did today, but we're the ones dealing with it. #strongereconomy
Correction: when we said "we", we actually meant "Danny Alexander". The rest of our "front bench" are fucking useless.
Well we didn't really miss anything...other than more lies.
There is hope for us all.
Disaster for Ed.
Maybe Gideon will promise to give you poor guys another tax break.
The final consideration is the cause of the memory deficit. Neurodegenerative, inflammatory/infectious, metabolic, vascular, traumatic, episodic, and endocrine processes can all produce memory impairment through compromise of the limbic and prefrontal circuits.
We call this summer in Manchester.
This thread was written blind as it were.
Army spokesman Brig Gen Chris Olukolade did not give details about the number of girls freed, saying the exercise was "ongoing".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29335637
Looks like with all the other stuff going on, Ed might get lucky and nobody will notice he made a balls up of his speech and he will just get his soundbite.
However, I think it can't resonate ahead of the fact with the British electorate. That something *might* happen is simply a very nebulous. No-one today cares that London and the South East subsidises the whole country. Why should they care that Scotland is a net beneficiary under Barnett?
I support EV4EL. I support STV. I support Lords reform (of some sort).
But I am not naive enough to think that more than 1% of people in real life share my concerns. If you bleat on about something that does not affect people, then those people will assume you have nothing to say about the things that really do bother them.
http://www.fereckels.com/clipper/uyen/pink-lipstick-8617/22995.html
Nowt so queer as Lancashire folk.
A safe seat, a big majority after the death of a popular MP
Labour in opposition
Free money?
Hmm, what's the opposite of buzzing? That's the mood in Lab conference centre after leader's speech.
Miliband forgot immigration as well says @georgeeaton 2 of the worst things for him to forget. No notes helped him in past but hurt him 2day
Evening Standard might have to issue an apology for their report bearing no resemblance to what was actually said.
Eddie Mair reduced Burnham to confused dribbling on Radio 4 PM. He's got no real idea about the numbers; Labour's proposed NHS reorganisation off to a confusing start..
But then I guess Miliband has form, all that bleating about standing up to Murdoch, while if he just did a quick google search he would remember that he really "hearts" The Sun....
Policies look interesting. £2 million is a big house even in London unless it is in a prime area like W8 or W11. Carbon stuff is catnip to the Red Liberals. Probably not worth bothering with the Evel stuff in a speech as it's meaningless and boring to 99% of the electorate.
So okay, not great, would be my verdict.
It was a speech built on a single word - together - repeated over 50 times and a single theme - the claim that Labour, unlike the Tories, would not allow people to struggle on their own.
There was also a single new policy announcement to capture it all. Extra funding for the NHS paid for, he claimed, not by extra borrowing or extra taxes on ordinary people but by taxing expensive houses, taxing the tobacco firms and hitting tax avoiding hedge funds.
There was, of course, much more than that. He spelt out Labour's six 10-year goals over more than an hour.
Some in the audience struggled to stay awake but Ed Miliband won't worry about that. He believes that what will win him the next election is not detailed policy but a different philosophy about how Britain ought to be governed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29332275
Non resident property is charged CGT already. Add in stamp duty and council tax too.
We aren't a southern European country where people avoid income tax, so why do we need a tax on assets? An Englishman's home is his castle and should be left well alone.
Immigration benefits our country but those who come here have a responsibility to learn English and earn their way. And employers have a responsibility not to exploit migrant workers and undercut wages.
And the deficit:
So as Ed Balls announced yesterday, Labour’s plan is based on a tough new approach. Eliminating the deficit as soon as possible in the next parliament. Getting the national debt falling. And no proposals for additional borrowing.
We will get the deficit down.
And, er.....that's it.......
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/ed-miliband-s-speech-labour-conference-full-text
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/let-me-list-everything-and-anything-that-was-positive-about-ed-milibands-speech-9751433.html
Who is to determine productive and unproductive, value or over valued?