I think one of our Scottish posters did once clarify this, but what happened before Devolution?
Scotland has always had a legal and education system distinct from England's, and so pretty much every education [and many law-related] Bills in the history of the Union would have faced the same issues as at present. Presumably there were Education Acts that applied only to Scotland, but were voted on by the whole House?
There were proportionately more Scottish MPs. Everything was voted on by the whole house. There was a Scottish Office, a Scottish, Scottish Minister and a Scottish civil service. And lots of Scottish MPs.
But I do not see what any of that has to do with where we find ourselves now.
If anyone wants to raise tax it should be on the nicotine replacement E thingys or whatever they are called. I think these E firms are owned by the tobacco companies???
Tax them to buggery.***
*** speaks reformed smoker not had a fag in 15 months and £250 a month better off every month. A packet of Benson and Hedges is nearly a TENNER now!
And push smokers back to proper fags?? One of the great attractions of e-fags is the price.
@Isam - Lots of people find it extremely difficult. I found it relatively easy (just have the odd one now and again with a drink) but people are different. Some respond differently to nicotine than others.
I think one of our Scottish posters did once clarify this, but what happened before Devolution?
Scotland has always had a legal and education system distinct from England's, and so pretty much every education [and many law-related] Bills in the history of the Union would have faced the same issues as at present. Presumably there were Education Acts that applied only to Scotland, but were voted on by the whole House?
Indeed I suspect there were. And what of the West Kensington Question? Why should London MPs vote on matters that are devolved to the GLA? This injustice must end and end now!
"After days of the Labour leadership refusing to back the idea, Harriet Harman told LBC Radio: ‘We do have to recognise there’s an anomaly and look at different ways we can address that'."
No rush Hattie - You have only had 17 years to think about it so far.
Of course the Tories have had an entire parliament to enact it. Yet they have come to it just now ;-)
You may have not noticed that this is not a tory government, but rather a coalition one. After the AV referendum, HoL reform and boundaries debacle, I think no-one wanted to get further bogged down with constitutional changes. Scotland voting Unionist does now put that on the agenda at last.
I think one of our Scottish posters did once clarify this, but what happened before Devolution?
Scotland has always had a legal and education system distinct from England's, and so pretty much every education [and many law-related] Bills in the history of the Union would have faced the same issues as at present. Presumably there were Education Acts that applied only to Scotland, but were voted on by the whole House?
Indeed. The existence of a country - or polity if you like - with its legal system determined solely by a political party with a minority of represetnatives in that country is always problematical.
There would also be other areas of devolved administration, where acts were passed by the whole house.
Also there would be the question of a Secretary of State appointed by the in-Scotland minority party and making administrative decisions which were not supported by the Scots.
One thinks of the poll tax, for instance.
How much this reverse, but very real, WLQ was aproblem throughout history would depend on percepton - if politics were much the same balance as in the UK as a whole versus today - and how things were done - if only the Scots MPs could be ersed to turn up for a Scottish bill then there might not have been a problem. Would be interesting to know.
On a historical note, also, one might also add religion, before the disestablishment of the Kirk. IIRC the 1843 Disruption of the Kirk was in part a reaction to the use of non-Scottish votes in Westminster to impose decisions unwelcome to a majority of the Assembly of the Kirk. This was pretty offensive for obvious reasons, not least because (as was pointed out at the time) it breached the Treaty of Union, in which the security of the Kirk was promised.
Not true. It is specifically the phrase North London intellectual that has a whiff of antisemitism about it. A bit like the nasty bacon sandwich stuff.
The GUIDE to Conference: Tuesday 23rd September 2014 Fingers in ears Ed is hoping an announcement today will be big enough to knock Syria, English votes and Tesco off the front pages and secure some positive coverage. It’s worth remembering though, that Ed’s team doesn’t always seek external advice before shouting from the rooftops. Towering intellectual powerhouses, like Owen Jones, will no doubt think that is a good thing, but policies that haven’t been well tested and well informed tend to unravel pretty quickly. Public affairs work with Labour is often most useful when the party turns to how things could be implemented, rather than whether an idea is a good one in the first place.
I think one of our Scottish posters did once clarify this, but what happened before Devolution?
Scotland has always had a legal and education system distinct from England's, and so pretty much every education [and many law-related] Bills in the history of the Union would have faced the same issues as at present. Presumably there were Education Acts that applied only to Scotland, but were voted on by the whole House?
Indeed I suspect there were. And what of the West Kensington Question? Why should London MPs vote on matters that are devolved to the GLA? This injustice must end and end now!
Because prescriptions & Uni fees etc are the same in London as in the rest of England?
This whole argument is stupid, we are either the uk or not. Would have been better if YES has prevailed, all we get now is a mockery of a sham of a uk which is divorced in all but name.
23.9.14 LAB 334 (331) CON 260(262) LD 32(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) Last weeks BJESUS in brackets BJESUS (Big John Election Service Uniform Swing) Using current polling adjusted for 225 days left to go factor and using UKPR standard swingometer
Not true. It is specifically the phrase North London intellectual that has a whiff of antisemitism about it. A bit like the nasty bacon sandwich stuff.
Please, noone wants a re-run of that argument. Before we know it we'll be back on to farmers' markets and there will be carnage.
Not true. It is specifically the phrase North London intellectual that has a whiff of antisemitism about it. A bit like the nasty bacon sandwich stuff.
@Jo_Suherman: Audible gasps at @IpsosMORI fringe as audience presented graph showing Ed's unpopularity on a par with IDS, Howard and Hague as opp leaders
Ed is no Kinnock. Not even Foot.
Dear God, where have these activists been for the last four years?
A London bubble based on the tweet I just saw
Patrick O'Flynn @oflynnmep 34m What an amazing stat - 48% of Labour Party members are from London. No wonder this party doesn't understand Britain.
What country does Patrick O'Flynn think London is in?
Logic fail there Neil. Just because London is in England does not mean it is representative of the country as a whole.
Something too many politicians and commentators seem to forget.
I think one of our Scottish posters did once clarify this, but what happened before Devolution?
Scotland has always had a legal and education system distinct from England's, and so pretty much every education [and many law-related] Bills in the history of the Union would have faced the same issues as at present. Presumably there were Education Acts that applied only to Scotland, but were voted on by the whole House?
Indeed I suspect there were. And what of the West Kensington Question? Why should London MPs vote on matters that are devolved to the GLA? This injustice must end and end now!
Because prescriptions & Uni fees etc are the same in London as in the rest of England?
This whole argument is stupid, we are either the uk or not. Would have been better if YES has prevailed, all we get now is a mockery of a sham of a uk which is divorced in all but name.
You know what, I actually think I agree with you on this now. I was for No. But the morning after, I got this abiding feeling that the Scots had chosen unwisely. What happens next looks to me like a mess.
17.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 24.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 1.7.14 LAB 329(330) CON 268 (263) LD 29(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24(24) (Ed is crap is PM) 8.7.14 LAB 330 (329) CON 264(268) LD 32(29) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 15.7.14 LAB 329 (330) CON 264(264) LD 33(32) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 22.7.14 LAB 331 (329) CON 261(264) LD 34(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 29.7.14 LAB 332 (331) CON 260(261) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 5.8.14 LAB 330(332) CON 262(260) LD 34(34 UKIP0(0) Others 24 (Ed is Crap is PM) 12.8.14 LAB 332 (330) CON 260(262) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 18.8.14 LAB 331(332) CON 261(260) LD 34(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 26.8.14 LAB 333(331) CON 259(261)LD(34)UKIP 0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 2.9.14 LAB331(333) CON261(259) LD24(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 9.9.14 LAB332(331) CON260(261) LD34(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 16.9.14 LAB 331(332) CON 262(260) LD 33(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 23.9.14 LAB 334 (331) CON 260(262) LD 32(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
The GUIDE to Conference: Tuesday 23rd September 2014 Fingers in ears Ed is hoping an announcement today will be big enough to knock Syria, English votes and Tesco off the front pages and secure some positive coverage. It’s worth remembering though, that Ed’s team doesn’t always seek external advice before shouting from the rooftops. Towering intellectual powerhouses, like Owen Jones, will no doubt think that is a good thing, but policies that haven’t been well tested and well informed tend to unravel pretty quickly. Public affairs work with Labour is often most useful when the party turns to how things could be implemented, rather than whether an idea is a good one in the first place.
Who cares? 80-odd % of Tories are probably middle Englanders* maybe. So what? Your point is?
17.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 24.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 1.7.14 LAB 329(330) CON 268 (263) LD 29(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24(24) (Ed is crap is PM) 8.7.14 LAB 330 (329) CON 264(268) LD 32(29) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 15.7.14 LAB 329 (330) CON 264(264) LD 33(32) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 22.7.14 LAB 331 (329) CON 261(264) LD 34(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 29.7.14 LAB 332 (331) CON 260(261) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 5.8.14 LAB 330(332) CON 262(260) LD 34(34 UKIP0(0) Others 24 (Ed is Crap is PM) 12.8.14 LAB 332 (330) CON 260(262) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 18.8.14 LAB 331(332) CON 261(260) LD 34(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 26.8.14 LAB 333(331) CON 259(261)LD(34)UKIP 0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 2.9.14 LAB331(333) CON261(259) LD24(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 9.9.14 LAB332(331) CON260(261) LD34(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 16.9.14 LAB 331(332) CON 262(260) LD 33(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 23.9.14 LAB 334 (331) CON 260(262) LD 32(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
Cumluative YTD Govt borrowing now running £2.6bn up from last year.
Now an awful lot of reliance being placed on self assessed tax receipts from all those thousands of newly created self employed entrepreneurs the Tories keep lauding!
The result would have been the same if it was cheese and pickle, or jam. Ed looked like a complete moron - get over it.
Watch the tape. He looks like a normal bloke having breakfast. We'd all look awkward if some cretin stood there with a camera taking 200 freeze frames.
Not true. It is specifically the phrase North London intellectual that has a whiff of antisemitism about it. A bit like the nasty bacon sandwich stuff.
What's not true?
You wrote North London leftie - nothing wrong with that IMO.
Love the fact that "West Lothian Question" is copyright J.E.Powell
If there is a reshuffle, I assume the bet is void? Disgraceful from paddy power if not
Is it (I saw you said it last night).
My memory (which could be false) is that it was called that because of a famous speech by Tam Dayell (?sp) a great Labour MP OE. He had about 3 or 4 examples of Scottish towns paired with English towns with the same initial letter that he used as a rhetorical device.
But he was the MP for West Lothian, so that was the name that stuck.
Not true. It is specifically the phrase North London intellectual that has a whiff of antisemitism about it. A bit like the nasty bacon sandwich stuff.
Please, noone wants a re-run of that argument. Before we know it we'll be back on to farmers' markets and there will be carnage.
If you don't want to discuss it you don't have to Neil
I think one of our Scottish posters did once clarify this, but what happened before Devolution?
Scotland has always had a legal and education system distinct from England's, and so pretty much every education [and many law-related] Bills in the history of the Union would have faced the same issues as at present. Presumably there were Education Acts that applied only to Scotland, but were voted on by the whole House?
There were proportionately more Scottish MPs. Everything was voted on by the whole house. There was a Scottish Office, a Scottish, Scottish Minister and a Scottish civil service. And lots of Scottish MPs.
But I do not see what any of that has to do with where we find ourselves now.
Well, I didn't raise the point because I felt it had a direct bearing on the situation now, but just because I was interested about the history and context.
If it does make a point it is perhaps that the UK has endured for so long because constitutional anomalies have been tolerated or, more credibly, because the two-sided fight for temporary partisan advantage has largely evened out over time.
Maybe it makes a quirky sort of constitutional balance if the Conservatives win English Votes for English Laws, while Labour get to keep the relatively depopulated inner city seats?
Not my preference - I'm more of an idealistic search for perfection sort of person - but it seems in keeping with the way this country has historically done this sort of thing. Very untidily and to no-one's complete satisfaction.
The GUIDE to Conference: Tuesday 23rd September 2014 Fingers in ears Ed is hoping an announcement today will be big enough to knock Syria, English votes and Tesco off the front pages and secure some positive coverage. It’s worth remembering though, that Ed’s team doesn’t always seek external advice before shouting from the rooftops. Towering intellectual powerhouses, like Owen Jones, will no doubt think that is a good thing, but policies that haven’t been well tested and well informed tend to unravel pretty quickly. Public affairs work with Labour is often most useful when the party turns to how things could be implemented, rather than whether an idea is a good one in the first place.
So what? Your point is?
If it really needs spelling out:
It's not just the leader of the Labour Party that is out of touch with Britain as a whole....
Love the fact that "West Lothian Question" is copyright J.E.Powell
If there is a reshuffle, I assume the bet is void? Disgraceful from paddy power if not
Is it (I saw you said it last night).
My memory (which could be false) is that it was called that because of a famous speech by Tam Dayell (?sp) a great Labour MP OE. He had about 3 or 4 examples of Scottish towns paired with English towns with the same initial letter that he used as a rhetorical device.
But he was the MP for West Lothian, so that was the name that stuck.
"It was actually Enoch Powell, responding to Dalyell, who said “Let us call it the West Lothian Question”, giving a name to a problem that has vexed politicians for decades (Prime Minister William Gladstone, who represented Midlothian in the 19th century, tried to address a similar issue raised by Irish Home Rule in the 1880s). "
Morning all and why would Carmichael be sacked. He was very effective and had an incredibly high profile throughout the IndyRef campaign. He was the main NO standard bearer in many debates and worked closely with his Tory and moderate Labour colleagues like Darling.
Jo Swinson has a baby, a husband who is an MP at the other end of the country and is expected by virtually no-one to hold her seat next year, barring a wholesale collapse of the SLAB vote and the LibDem vote suddenly holding up in ways we haven't seen since 2011. Remember the LibDems were almost wiped out on their former stronghold of East Dunbartonshire council.
Presumably as a Minister losing her seat she'd get a higher redundancy payment...
What I call the "Michael Havers" approach (although given the special circumstances in that case, I believe Margaret was right to be generous)
Ed Miliband should give an excellent speech today. I'm baffled as to why others are expecting otherwise. He's had all summer to prepare and he usually excels at his party conference.
Ed Miliband should give an excellent speech today. I'm baffled as to why others are expecting otherwise. He's had all summer to prepare and he usually excels at his party conference.
Some of us remember his 2011 speech, which was universally slated.
Ed Miliband should give an excellent speech today. I'm baffled as to why others are expecting otherwise. He's had all summer to prepare and he usually excels at his party conference.
Perhaps Gordon Brown can stand in for him this week too.
Ed Miliband should give an excellent speech today. I'm baffled as to why others are expecting otherwise. He's had all summer to prepare and he usually excels at his party conference.
Yeah, haven't we had the same "Ed gives surprisingly good speech" story every Labour party conference since he became leader?
Ed Miliband should give an excellent speech today. I'm baffled as to why others are expecting otherwise. He's had all summer to prepare and he usually excels at his party conference.
Some of us remember his 2011 speech, which was universally slated.
I'd be amazed if there wasn't another rabbit to pull out of the hat - price freeze on food and taxes on fast cars or something.
Ed Miliband should give an excellent speech today. I'm baffled as to why others are expecting otherwise. He's had all summer to prepare and he usually excels at his party conference.
And it's not like there have been any last minute vows distractions or calls on his time....
The result would have been the same if it was cheese and pickle, or jam. Ed looked like a complete moron - get over it.
Watch the tape. He looks like a normal bloke having breakfast. We'd all look awkward if some cretin stood there with a camera taking 200 freeze frames.
Bobajob. .. you fail to understand that poking fun at Ed is a national sport.. Where were you defending Dave when tim continually attacked him... Ed looked a berk. That's the reality, get over it.
Ed Miliband should give an excellent speech today. I'm baffled as to why others are expecting otherwise. He's had all summer to prepare and he usually excels at his party conference.
Some of us remember his 2011 speech, which was universally slated.
I'd be amazed if there wasn't another rabbit to pull out of the hat - price freeze on food and taxes on fast cars or something.
Feel sorry for me, I have to write a thread on the speech, but I won't be able to watch the speech until midnight at the earliest.
I'm expecting a tax cut for the middle class and tax rises for the parasite high earners/bankers
If anyone wants to raise tax it should be on the nicotine replacement E thingys or whatever they are called. I think these E firms are owned by the tobacco companies???
Tax them to buggery.***
*** speaks reformed smoker not had a fag in 15 months and £250 a month better off every month. A packet of Benson and Hedges is nearly a TENNER now!
Go for it!
Except for those products which are approved by the MHRA, which should be taxed as the licensed medicines they are.
(I may, just may, have an interest in this...) :-) :-)
17.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 24.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 1.7.14 LAB 329(330) CON 268 (263) LD 29(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24(24) (Ed is crap is PM) 8.7.14 LAB 330 (329) CON 264(268) LD 32(29) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 15.7.14 LAB 329 (330) CON 264(264) LD 33(32) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 22.7.14 LAB 331 (329) CON 261(264) LD 34(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 29.7.14 LAB 332 (331) CON 260(261) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 5.8.14 LAB 330(332) CON 262(260) LD 34(34 UKIP0(0) Others 24 (Ed is Crap is PM) 12.8.14 LAB 332 (330) CON 260(262) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 18.8.14 LAB 331(332) CON 261(260) LD 34(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 26.8.14 LAB 333(331) CON 259(261)LD(34)UKIP 0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 2.9.14 LAB331(333) CON261(259) LD24(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 9.9.14 LAB332(331) CON260(261) LD34(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 16.9.14 LAB 331(332) CON 262(260) LD 33(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 23.9.14 LAB 334 (331) CON 260(262) LD 32(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
I think one of our Scottish posters did once clarify this, but what happened before Devolution?
Scotland has always had a legal and education system distinct from England's, and so pretty much every education [and many law-related] Bills in the history of the Union would have faced the same issues as at present. Presumably there were Education Acts that applied only to Scotland, but were voted on by the whole House?
There were proportionately more Scottish MPs. Everything was voted on by the whole house. There was a Scottish Office, a Scottish, Scottish Minister and a Scottish civil service. And lots of Scottish MPs.
But I do not see what any of that has to do with where we find ourselves now.
Well, I didn't raise the point because I felt it had a direct bearing on the situation now, but just because I was interested about the history and context.
If it does make a point it is perhaps that the UK has endured for so long because constitutional anomalies have been tolerated or, more credibly, because the two-sided fight for temporary partisan advantage has largely evened out over time.
Maybe it makes a quirky sort of constitutional balance if the Conservatives win English Votes for English Laws, while Labour get to keep the relatively depopulated inner city seats?
Not my preference - I'm more of an idealistic search for perfection sort of person - but it seems in keeping with the way this country has historically done this sort of thing. Very untidily and to no-one's complete satisfaction.
Exactly so. To read some folk, one would imagine that the WLQ had been specially invented in 1999 to do down the poor English. Not that it makes it any more acceptable, of course ...
The distinct Scottish legal and educational, etc., systems (enshrined in the 1707 Treaty) do make any monolithic single UK system impossible without addressing that issue, because of their existence and the problem of non-Scottish MPs voting on them. Mr Blair can't be blamed for that - though he did reduce the intensity of that problem by (a) winning in 1997 and (b) setting up the Scottish Parliament. Of course, he did create others ...
Ed Miliband should give an excellent speech today. I'm baffled as to why others are expecting otherwise. He's had all summer to prepare and he usually excels at his party conference.
Some of us remember his 2011 speech, which was universally slated.
I'd be amazed if there wasn't another rabbit to pull out of the hat - price freeze on food and taxes on fast cars or something.
Feel sorry for me, I have to write a thread on the speech, but I won't be able to watch the speech until midnight at the earliest.
I'm expecting a tax cut for the middle class and tax rises for the parasite high earners/bankers
I think a tax cut is unlikely - that would mean Ed trusts the voters to spend their own money - which he hasn't up until now.
Much more likely he will try and control the cost of something they buy - water or train fares.
Yes thats it - a cut in train fares for hard working London Labour members...
Donations will be free from income tax, heavily reliant on local authority grants, and support from Government, happy to play victim in the media what could possibly go wrong?
I think one of our Scottish posters did once clarify this, but what happened before Devolution?
Scotland has always had a legal and education system distinct from England's, and so pretty much every education [and many law-related] Bills in the history of the Union would have faced the same issues as at present. Presumably there were Education Acts that applied only to Scotland, but were voted on by the whole House?
Indeed I suspect there were. And what of the West Kensington Question? Why should London MPs vote on matters that are devolved to the GLA? This injustice must end and end now!
I see a couple of questions with this 'West Kensington Question':
1) The powers devolved to the GLA are much less than in Scotland, and I think less than Wales. In many cases (e.g. policing) these are already well split up in the rest of the country.
2) London is a machine that sucks in resources from its surroundings and chucks out (mostly) capital. For instance transport in London effects areas outside London; with Crossrail going well into Essex and now up to Reading and possibly Aylesbury, and Thameslink between Bedford and Brighton. It makes sense for the rest of England to have a say on what happens with transport in London.
If anyone wants to raise tax it should be on the nicotine replacement E thingys or whatever they are called. I think these E firms are owned by the tobacco companies???
Tax them to buggery.***
*** speaks reformed smoker not had a fag in 15 months and £250 a month better off every month. A packet of Benson and Hedges is nearly a TENNER now!
I have noticed a number of shops springing up dedicated to sale of these contraptions and presumably the required refills, which suggests that decent profits are being made.
I am guessing that they currently do not attract any tax and can therefore be sold with a high margin whilst remaining cheaper that the taxed alternatives.
I have a client who uses them, he says the e thingy replacement cartridges cost a tenner.or thereabouts and last about 10 days (I guess I depends on how much you use it.. ) There is a middle road somewhere between the cost of fags and these contraptions, the cost needs to be enough that it hurts so that people want to quit, at the moment the addiction is still there and at little cost.
So £1 per day versus SquareRoot's former £250 per month.
It seems to me that there is a good argument for taxing these things, given that governments argue that tobacco tax is there to save you, not them.
I packed in 25 years ago thankfully.
Are these contraptions actually addictive in their own right (leaving aside if they are safe or not)? If so then arguably they should be taxed. Are they 'nicotine replacement'? Or are they an alternative way to get a nicotine fix? Isn't nicotine itself poisonous? (I seem to recall a Columbo episode where there was murder by nicotine)- again if so it should be taxed.
Presumably they attract 20% VAT?
The concept is harm resduction: you get the addictive fix without the health consequnces. So the lib ertarian in me is a fan.
Of course, it should be pharmaceutical grade nicotine (not the agricultural stuff from Asia that most e-cigs use) and I wouldn't personally put a battery and heating element in my mouth
Ed Miliband should give an excellent speech today. I'm baffled as to why others are expecting otherwise. He's had all summer to prepare and he usually excels at his party conference.
Some of us remember his 2011 speech, which was universally slated.
I'd be amazed if there wasn't another rabbit to pull out of the hat - price freeze on food and taxes on fast cars or something.
Feel sorry for me, I have to write a thread on the speech, but I won't be able to watch the speech until midnight at the earliest.
I'm expecting a tax cut for the middle class and tax rises for the parasite high earners/bankers
I think a tax cut is unlikely - that would mean Ed trusts the voters to spend their own money - which he hasn't up until now.
Much more likely he will try and control the cost of something they buy - water or train fares.
Yes thats it - a cut in train fares for hard working London Labour members...
Donations will be free from income tax, heavily reliant on local authority grants, and support from Government, happy to play victim in the media what could possibly go wrong?
"he charity has become reliant on the generosity of the celebrity and private donors, "
Ed Miliband should give an excellent speech today. I'm baffled as to why others are expecting otherwise. He's had all summer to prepare and he usually excels at his party conference.
Some of us remember his 2011 speech, which was universally slated.
I'd be amazed if there wasn't another rabbit to pull out of the hat - price freeze on food and taxes on fast cars or something.
Feel sorry for me, I have to write a thread on the speech, but I won't be able to watch the speech until midnight at the earliest.
I'm expecting a tax cut for the middle class and tax rises for the parasite high earners/bankers
I think a tax cut is unlikely - that would mean Ed trusts the voters to spend their own money - which he hasn't up until now.
Much more likely he will try and control the cost of something they buy - water or train fares.
Yes thats it - a cut in train fares for hard working London Labour members...
@Jo_Suherman: Audible gasps at @IpsosMORI fringe as audience presented graph showing Ed's unpopularity on a par with IDS, Howard and Hague as opp leaders
Ed is no Kinnock. Not even Foot.
Dear God, where have these activists been for the last four years?
A London bubble based on the tweet I just saw
Patrick O'Flynn @oflynnmep 34m What an amazing stat - 48% of Labour Party members are from London. No wonder this party doesn't understand Britain.
What country does Patrick O'Flynn think London is in?
This table shows why it feels less British than other parts of the uk, and why people living there would find it harder to understand what the rest of the country is like
Ed Miliband should give an excellent speech today. I'm baffled as to why others are expecting otherwise. He's had all summer to prepare and he usually excels at his party conference.
Some of us remember his 2011 speech, which was universally slated.
I'd be amazed if there wasn't another rabbit to pull out of the hat - price freeze on food and taxes on fast cars or something.
Feel sorry for me, I have to write a thread on the speech, but I won't be able to watch the speech until midnight at the earliest.
I'm expecting a tax cut for the middle class and tax rises for the parasite high earners/bankers
I think a tax cut is unlikely - that would mean Ed trusts the voters to spend their own money - which he hasn't up until now.
Much more likely he will try and control the cost of something they buy - water or train fares.
Yes thats it - a cut in train fares for hard working London Labour members...
Nationalisation of the railways.
Ah, so another make-the-problem-fit-my-favourite-answer 'policy'.
(I must say again: I am not against reform of the current railway organisation, and that may include renationalisation. It is just that the people arguing for renationalisaiton do so on incredibly bogus or naive arguments. They also fail to define the problems that are trying to solve, and ignore the successes of the current system in what looks like at attempt to throw the baby out with the bathwater)
Not sure about this. I am afraid that Jo Swinson is toast and giving her a higher profile position is going to make no difference. In fact I doubt there will be more than 1 Lib Dem south of Inverness and very possibly none at all.
Presumably you mean south of Inverness but still in Scotland or are you predicting total taxi territory for the Lib Dems?
17.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 24.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 1.7.14 LAB 329(330) CON 268 (263) LD 29(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24(24) (Ed is crap is PM) 8.7.14 LAB 330 (329) CON 264(268) LD 32(29) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 15.7.14 LAB 329 (330) CON 264(264) LD 33(32) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 22.7.14 LAB 331 (329) CON 261(264) LD 34(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 29.7.14 LAB 332 (331) CON 260(261) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 5.8.14 LAB 330(332) CON 262(260) LD 34(34 UKIP0(0) Others 24 (Ed is Crap is PM) 12.8.14 LAB 332 (330) CON 260(262) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 18.8.14 LAB 331(332) CON 261(260) LD 34(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 26.8.14 LAB 333(331) CON 259(261)LD(34)UKIP 0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 2.9.14 LAB331(333) CON261(259) LD24(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 9.9.14 LAB332(331) CON260(261) LD34(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 16.9.14 LAB 331(332) CON 262(260) LD 33(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 23.9.14 LAB 334 (331) CON 260(262) LD 32(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
No surprise, of course. The beauty of it for both the Tories and the SNP is that any such action seriously damages the British Labour Party in Scotland because of the now proven complicity with the Tories.
Cumluative YTD Govt borrowing now running £2.6bn up from last year.
Now an awful lot of reliance being placed on self assessed tax receipts from all those thousands of newly created self employed entrepreneurs the Tories keep lauding!
Taxes are flowing in.
It's APF receipts that are down just under £15bn, while debt interest payments are the fastest growing area of expenditure.
Love the fact that "West Lothian Question" is copyright J.E.Powell
If there is a reshuffle, I assume the bet is void? Disgraceful from paddy power if not
Is it (I saw you said it last night).
My memory (which could be false) is that it was called that because of a famous speech by Tam Dayell (?sp) a great Labour MP OE. He had about 3 or 4 examples of Scottish towns paired with English towns with the same initial letter that he used as a rhetorical device.
But he was the MP for West Lothian, so that was the name that stuck.
"It was actually Enoch Powell, responding to Dalyell, who said “Let us call it the West Lothian Question”, giving a name to a problem that has vexed politicians for decades (Prime Minister William Gladstone, who represented Midlothian in the 19th century, tried to address a similar issue raised by Irish Home Rule in the 1880s). "
Y'all be delighted to know, I've just written a thread about whether tipping point will occur in Scotland next year, it'll probably be published tomorrow or Thursday.
The beauty of it for both the Tories and the SNP is that any such action seriously damages the British Labour Party in Scotland because of the now proven complicity with the Tories.
No surprise, of course. The beauty of it for both the Tories and the SNP is that any such action seriously damages the British Labour Party in Scotland because of the now proven complicity with the Tories.
Yeah I've been saying this. The more pissed off the Scottish are, the better for the Tories.
No surprise, of course. The beauty of it for both the Tories and the SNP is that any such action seriously damages the British Labour Party in Scotland because of the now proven complicity with the Tories.
Love the fact that "West Lothian Question" is copyright J.E.Powell
If there is a reshuffle, I assume the bet is void? Disgraceful from paddy power if not
Is it (I saw you said it last night).
My memory (which could be false) is that it was called that because of a famous speech by Tam Dayell (?sp) a great Labour MP OE. He had about 3 or 4 examples of Scottish towns paired with English towns with the same initial letter that he used as a rhetorical device.
But he was the MP for West Lothian, so that was the name that stuck.
"It was actually Enoch Powell, responding to Dalyell, who said “Let us call it the West Lothian Question”, giving a name to a problem that has vexed politicians for decades (Prime Minister William Gladstone, who represented Midlothian in the 19th century, tried to address a similar issue raised by Irish Home Rule in the 1880s). "
But still a nasty bully. And not as smart as he thought he was.
Yup, he was a crappy politician, thanks to him and his made up stories about immigrants, nobody could raise the topic of immigration without sounding like a nasty bigot for decades.
Cumluative YTD Govt borrowing now running £2.6bn up from last year.
Now an awful lot of reliance being placed on self assessed tax receipts from all those thousands of newly created self employed entrepreneurs the Tories keep lauding!
Taxes are flowing in.
It's APF receipts that are down just under £15bn, while debt interest payments are the fastest growing area of expenditure.
I'm using the old basis for measurement which ignored APF tansfers.
And the BBC has this to say on tax receipts:
Economists have spoken of a "taxless" recovery that has made it harder for Mr Osborne to balance the books.
This refers to the fact that receipts from income tax have not been rising as much as the government would have hoped, despite rises in the number of people in work, because pay rises have been meagre for many.
August continued this trend, with income tax receipts and social security payments growing just 1.6% from the previous year.
For the tax year so far, the amount has been 0.6% lower than in the same period a year earlier.
Love the fact that "West Lothian Question" is copyright J.E.Powell
If there is a reshuffle, I assume the bet is void? Disgraceful from paddy power if not
Is it (I saw you said it last night).
My memory (which could be false) is that it was called that because of a famous speech by Tam Dayell (?sp) a great Labour MP OE. He had about 3 or 4 examples of Scottish towns paired with English towns with the same initial letter that he used as a rhetorical device.
But he was the MP for West Lothian, so that was the name that stuck.
"It was actually Enoch Powell, responding to Dalyell, who said “Let us call it the West Lothian Question”, giving a name to a problem that has vexed politicians for decades (Prime Minister William Gladstone, who represented Midlothian in the 19th century, tried to address a similar issue raised by Irish Home Rule in the 1880s). "
But still a nasty bully. And not as smart as he thought he was.
Don't really see why you felt the need to say that, but as you wish
At least we are agreed that Enoch was the first to term the puzzle the "West Lothian Question", and I therefore expect the term to barely be used on PB again!
17.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 24.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 1.7.14 LAB 329(330) CON 268 (263) LD 29(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24(24) (Ed is crap is PM) 8.7.14 LAB 330 (329) CON 264(268) LD 32(29) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 15.7.14 LAB 329 (330) CON 264(264) LD 33(32) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 22.7.14 LAB 331 (329) CON 261(264) LD 34(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 29.7.14 LAB 332 (331) CON 260(261) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 5.8.14 LAB 330(332) CON 262(260) LD 34(34 UKIP0(0) Others 24 (Ed is Crap is PM) 12.8.14 LAB 332 (330) CON 260(262) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 18.8.14 LAB 331(332) CON 261(260) LD 34(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 26.8.14 LAB 333(331) CON 259(261)LD(34)UKIP 0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 2.9.14 LAB331(333) CON261(259) LD24(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 9.9.14 LAB332(331) CON260(261) LD34(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 16.9.14 LAB 331(332) CON 262(260) LD 33(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 23.9.14 LAB 334 (331) CON 260(262) LD 32(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
How would you describe the general direction of the red line during the last 500 or so polls?
"Trend" arguments are flimsy at the best of times, and this graph doesn't even support it well in this case. If we want to talk about momentum, I see from the last months a Labour and Conservative party that are more or less flat, while UKIP rise and the Lib Dems fall. How exactly is that supposed to translate into a Tory win?
17.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 24.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 1.7.14 LAB 329(330) CON 268 (263) LD 29(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24(24) (Ed is crap is PM) 8.7.14 LAB 330 (329) CON 264(268) LD 32(29) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 15.7.14 LAB 329 (330) CON 264(264) LD 33(32) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 22.7.14 LAB 331 (329) CON 261(264) LD 34(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 29.7.14 LAB 332 (331) CON 260(261) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 5.8.14 LAB 330(332) CON 262(260) LD 34(34 UKIP0(0) Others 24 (Ed is Crap is PM) 12.8.14 LAB 332 (330) CON 260(262) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 18.8.14 LAB 331(332) CON 261(260) LD 34(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 26.8.14 LAB 333(331) CON 259(261)LD(34)UKIP 0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 2.9.14 LAB331(333) CON261(259) LD24(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 9.9.14 LAB332(331) CON260(261) LD34(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 16.9.14 LAB 331(332) CON 262(260) LD 33(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 23.9.14 LAB 334 (331) CON 260(262) LD 32(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
Ed Miliband should give an excellent speech today. I'm baffled as to why others are expecting otherwise. He's had all summer to prepare and he usually excels at his party conference.
Some of us remember his 2011 speech, which was universally slated.
I will be looking for something prime ministerial extending a hand across the divide as Tony Blair did so successfully. I need to think this man is not just a partisan policy wonk. I think I'm going to be disappointed.
Love the fact that "West Lothian Question" is copyright J.E.Powell
If there is a reshuffle, I assume the bet is void? Disgraceful from paddy power if not
Is it (I saw you said it last night).
My memory (which could be false) is that it was called that because of a famous speech by Tam Dayell (?sp) a great Labour MP OE. He had about 3 or 4 examples of Scottish towns paired with English towns with the same initial letter that he used as a rhetorical device.
But he was the MP for West Lothian, so that was the name that stuck.
"It was actually Enoch Powell, responding to Dalyell, who said “Let us call it the West Lothian Question”, giving a name to a problem that has vexed politicians for decades (Prime Minister William Gladstone, who represented Midlothian in the 19th century, tried to address a similar issue raised by Irish Home Rule in the 1880s). "
But still a nasty bully. And not as smart as he thought he was.
Yup, he was a crappy politician, thanks to him and his made up stories about immigrants, nobody could raise the topic of immigration without sounding like a nasty bigot for decades.
It is the idiots crying racist every time immigration is brought up that made discussing it impossible not Enoch Powell.
Ed Miliband should give an excellent speech today. I'm baffled as to why others are expecting otherwise. He's had all summer to prepare and he usually excels at his party conference.
Some of us remember his 2011 speech, which was universally slated.
I'd be amazed if there wasn't another rabbit to pull out of the hat - price freeze on food and taxes on fast cars or something.
Feel sorry for me, I have to write a thread on the speech, but I won't be able to watch the speech until midnight at the earliest.
I'm expecting a tax cut for the middle class and tax rises for the parasite high earners/bankers
I think a tax cut is unlikely - that would mean Ed trusts the voters to spend their own money - which he hasn't up until now.
Much more likely he will try and control the cost of something they buy - water or train fares.
Yes thats it - a cut in train fares for hard working London Labour members...
Love the fact that "West Lothian Question" is copyright J.E.Powell
If there is a reshuffle, I assume the bet is void? Disgraceful from paddy power if not
Is it (I saw you said it last night).
My memory (which could be false) is that it was called that because of a famous speech by Tam Dayell (?sp) a great Labour MP OE. He had about 3 or 4 examples of Scottish towns paired with English towns with the same initial letter that he used as a rhetorical device.
But he was the MP for West Lothian, so that was the name that stuck.
"It was actually Enoch Powell, responding to Dalyell, who said “Let us call it the West Lothian Question”, giving a name to a problem that has vexed politicians for decades (Prime Minister William Gladstone, who represented Midlothian in the 19th century, tried to address a similar issue raised by Irish Home Rule in the 1880s). "
But still a nasty bully. And not as smart as he thought he was.
Yup, he was a crappy politician, thanks to him and his made up stories about immigrants, nobody could raise the topic of immigration without sounding like a nasty bigot for decades.
They weren't made up, and the only reason people couldn't raise the topic was the cowardice of Edward Heath
Public support for Powell was huge, and his predictions have been proven correct
Why do we even bother with these arguments? I will defend him to the hilt and you will cherry pick quotes that allow you to exhibit self pity. Boring.
I think he was right, you think he was wrong. End of argument really, although I guess I you get a lot of comments from me and that makes you look competent in mikes absence click counter wise
17.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 24.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 1.7.14 LAB 329(330) CON 268 (263) LD 29(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24(24) (Ed is crap is PM) 8.7.14 LAB 330 (329) CON 264(268) LD 32(29) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 15.7.14 LAB 329 (330) CON 264(264) LD 33(32) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 22.7.14 LAB 331 (329) CON 261(264) LD 34(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 29.7.14 LAB 332 (331) CON 260(261) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 5.8.14 LAB 330(332) CON 262(260) LD 34(34 UKIP0(0) Others 24 (Ed is Crap is PM) 12.8.14 LAB 332 (330) CON 260(262) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 18.8.14 LAB 331(332) CON 261(260) LD 34(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 26.8.14 LAB 333(331) CON 259(261)LD(34)UKIP 0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 2.9.14 LAB331(333) CON261(259) LD24(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 9.9.14 LAB332(331) CON260(261) LD34(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 16.9.14 LAB 331(332) CON 262(260) LD 33(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 23.9.14 LAB 334 (331) CON 260(262) LD 32(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
Love the fact that "West Lothian Question" is copyright J.E.Powell
If there is a reshuffle, I assume the bet is void? Disgraceful from paddy power if not
Is it (I saw you said it last night).
My memory (which could be false) is that it was called that because of a famous speech by Tam Dayell (?sp) a great Labour MP OE. He had about 3 or 4 examples of Scottish towns paired with English towns with the same initial letter that he used as a rhetorical device.
But he was the MP for West Lothian, so that was the name that stuck.
"It was actually Enoch Powell, responding to Dalyell, who said “Let us call it the West Lothian Question”, giving a name to a problem that has vexed politicians for decades (Prime Minister William Gladstone, who represented Midlothian in the 19th century, tried to address a similar issue raised by Irish Home Rule in the 1880s). "
But still a nasty bully. And not as smart as he thought he was.
Yup, he was a crappy politician, thanks to him and his made up stories about immigrants, nobody could raise the topic of immigration without sounding like a nasty bigot for decades.
They weren't made up, and the only reason people couldn't raise the topic was the cowardice of Edward Heath
Public support for Powell was huge, and his predictions have been proven correct
Why do we even bother with these arguments? I will defend him to the hilt and you will cherry pick quotes that allow you to exhibit self pity. Boring.
I think he was right, you think he was wrong. End of argument really, although I guess I you get a lot of comments from me and that makes you look competent in mikes absence click counter wise
Lol, you don't understand how PB's popularity is measured or generated. Never mind. Play the man, not the ball, it's your style. (FYI - The more comments we get on PB, the more money it costs Mike, in server and Vanilla costs) PB is all about the links it generates.
As an aside, does Socrates display self pity when he criticises Enoch Powell?
In the last 7 months the Red and Blue lines have run in parallel havent they 7 months to go to GE2015
YG last 7 month averages 4,4,3,4,3,4,3,3
September currently could be either 3 or 4 (exactly 3.5 at the moment)
Indeed.
However, when Labour were on 38 the chances of the Tories being able to scale up to that were virtually non existent, and the scope to cope with a bit of slippage was significant for Labour.
Labour are now regularly on 35. The Tories can conceivably poll that and a little bit beyond, while Labour's buffer against slippage is much thinner now.
The risk to Labour is greater with a three point lead of 35-32 than it was with 38-35.
Love the fact that "West Lothian Question" is copyright J.E.Powell
If there is a reshuffle, I assume the bet is void? Disgraceful from paddy power if not
Is it (I saw you said it last night).
My memory (which could be false) is that it was called that because of a famous speech by Tam Dayell (?sp) a great Labour MP OE. He had about 3 or 4 examples of Scottish towns paired with English towns with the same initial letter that he used as a rhetorical device.
But he was the MP for West Lothian, so that was the name that stuck.
"It was actually Enoch Powell, responding to Dalyell, who said “Let us call it the West Lothian Question”, giving a name to a problem that has vexed politicians for decades (Prime Minister William Gladstone, who represented Midlothian in the 19th century, tried to address a similar issue raised by Irish Home Rule in the 1880s). "
But still a nasty bully. And not as smart as he thought he was.
Yup, he was a crappy politician, thanks to him and his made up stories about immigrants, nobody could raise the topic of immigration without sounding like a nasty bigot for decades.
It is the idiots crying racist every time immigration is brought up that made discussing it impossible not Enoch Powell.
Do you think he could have used less inflammatory language, if he had used more temperate language, it might have been better.
Love the fact that "West Lothian Question" is copyright J.E.Powell
If there is a reshuffle, I assume the bet is void? Disgraceful from paddy power if not
Is it (I saw you said it last night).
My memory (which could be false) is that it was called that because of a famous speech by Tam Dayell (?sp) a great Labour MP OE. He had about 3 or 4 examples of Scottish towns paired with English towns with the same initial letter that he used as a rhetorical device.
But he was the MP for West Lothian, so that was the name that stuck.
"It was actually Enoch Powell, responding to Dalyell, who said “Let us call it the West Lothian Question”, giving a name to a problem that has vexed politicians for decades (Prime Minister William Gladstone, who represented Midlothian in the 19th century, tried to address a similar issue raised by Irish Home Rule in the 1880s). "
But still a nasty bully. And not as smart as he thought he was.
Yup, he was a crappy politician, thanks to him and his made up stories about immigrants, nobody could raise the topic of immigration without sounding like a nasty bigot for decades.
I do not agree with Enoch Powell's views on nationality, but it looks like his stories were not made up:
Love the fact that "West Lothian Question" is copyright J.E.Powell
If there is a reshuffle, I assume the bet is void? Disgraceful from paddy power if not
Is it (I saw you said it last night).
My memory (which could be false) is that it was called that because of a famous speech by Tam Dayell (?sp) a great Labour MP OE. He had about 3 or 4 examples of Scottish towns paired with English towns with the same initial letter that he used as a rhetorical device.
But he was the MP for West Lothian, so that was the name that stuck.
"It was actually Enoch Powell, responding to Dalyell, who said “Let us call it the West Lothian Question”, giving a name to a problem that has vexed politicians for decades (Prime Minister William Gladstone, who represented Midlothian in the 19th century, tried to address a similar issue raised by Irish Home Rule in the 1880s). "
But still a nasty bully. And not as smart as he thought he was.
Yup, he was a crappy politician, thanks to him and his made up stories about immigrants, nobody could raise the topic of immigration without sounding like a nasty bigot for decades.
It is the idiots crying racist every time immigration is brought up that made discussing it impossible not Enoch Powell.
Do you think he could have used less inflammatory language, if he had used more temperate language, it might have been better.
Probably, I'm not really sure to be honest. I know he was the one of the only politicians to publicly express serious doubts about mass immigration so overall he was more right than wrong as it turns out.
But to use a speech from 40 years ago to try and excuse accusations of racism every time immigration is discussed is pretty weak.
In the last 7 months the Red and Blue lines have run in parallel havent they 7 months to go to GE2015
YG last 7 month averages 4,4,3,4,3,4,3,3
September currently could be either 3 or 4 (exactly 3.5 at the moment)
Indeed.
However, when Labour were on 38 the chances of the Tories being able to scale up to that were virtually non existent, and the scope to cope with a bit of slippage was significant for Labour.
Labour are now regularly on 35. The Tories can conceivably poll that and a little bit beyond, while Labour's buffer against slippage is much thinner now.
The risk to Labour is greater with a three point lead of 35-32 than it was with 38-35.
True but of course 35/35 results in Ed as PM.
Tories need at least 37 for even a minority Govt. IMO
"Its amazing that nationalism in places as far apart as Venezuela and Scotland is considered such a progressive force by Guardian commentators; but one sun-burnt yob with a flag of St. George and a can of lager - and they've run inside and set the burglar alarm."
Love the fact that "West Lothian Question" is copyright J.E.Powell
If there is a reshuffle, I assume the bet is void? Disgraceful from paddy power if not
Is it (I saw you said it last night).
My memory (which could be false) is that it was called that because of a famous speech by Tam Dayell (?sp) a great Labour MP OE. He had about 3 or 4 examples of Scottish towns paired with English towns with the same initial letter that he used as a rhetorical device.
But he was the MP for West Lothian, so that was the name that stuck.
"It was actually Enoch Powell, responding to Dalyell, who said “Let us call it the West Lothian Question”, giving a name to a problem that has vexed politicians for decades (Prime Minister William Gladstone, who represented Midlothian in the 19th century, tried to address a similar issue raised by Irish Home Rule in the 1880s). "
But still a nasty bully. And not as smart as he thought he was.
Yup, he was a crappy politician, thanks to him and his made up stories about immigrants, nobody could raise the topic of immigration without sounding like a nasty bigot for decades.
I do not agree with Enoch Powell's views on nationality, but it looks like his stories were not made up:
Interesting, one of the pieces I read at school said, he would have become PM, had he proven the lady existed.
I did like this bit from the article
Despite her claims of feeling driven out, Druscilla stayed in Brighton Place until ill-health forced her to move to sheltered accommodation.
When she died in 1978, among the bouquets at her funeral there were flowers sent by the West Indian neighbours who she once claimed made her feel like a stranger in her own street.
Comments
Attacks those asset rich/cash poor
Encourages people to buy property abroad not Uk
Encourages people to buy other high value assets - Italian sports cars.
Encourages people to avoid tax by funky property splitting.
We have a perfectly good PAYE system - raise the top rate to 52% Ed if you want to "bash the rich".
But I do not see what any of that has to do with where we find ourselves now.
@Isam - Lots of people find it extremely difficult. I found it relatively easy (just have the odd one now and again with a drink) but people are different. Some respond differently to nicotine than others.
There would also be other areas of devolved administration, where acts were passed by the whole house.
Also there would be the question of a Secretary of State appointed by the in-Scotland minority party and making administrative decisions which were not supported by the Scots.
One thinks of the poll tax, for instance.
How much this reverse, but very real, WLQ was aproblem throughout history would depend on percepton - if politics were much the same balance as in the UK as a whole versus today - and how things were done - if only the Scots MPs could be ersed to turn up for a Scottish bill then there might not have been a problem. Would be interesting to know.
On a historical note, also, one might also add religion, before the disestablishment of the Kirk. IIRC the 1843 Disruption of the Kirk was in part a reaction to the use of non-Scottish votes in Westminster to impose decisions unwelcome to a majority of the Assembly of the Kirk. This was pretty offensive for obvious reasons, not least because (as was pointed out at the time) it breached the Treaty of Union, in which the security of the Kirk was promised.
http://www.theguideconsultancy.com/news.html
The GUIDE to Conference: Tuesday 23rd September 2014
Fingers in ears
Ed is hoping an announcement today will be big enough to knock Syria, English votes and Tesco off the front pages and secure some positive coverage. It’s worth remembering though, that Ed’s team doesn’t always seek external advice before shouting from the rooftops. Towering intellectual powerhouses, like Owen Jones, will no doubt think that is a good thing, but policies that haven’t been well tested and well informed tend to unravel pretty quickly. Public affairs work with Labour is often most useful when the party turns to how things could be implemented, rather than whether an idea is a good one in the first place.
This whole argument is stupid, we are either the uk or not. Would have been better if YES has prevailed, all we get now is a mockery of a sham of a uk which is divorced in all but name.
23.9.14 LAB 334 (331) CON 260(262) LD 32(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
Last weeks BJESUS in brackets
BJESUS (Big John Election Service Uniform Swing)
Using current polling adjusted for 225 days left to go factor and using UKPR standard swingometer
Something too many politicians and commentators seem to forget.
17.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
24.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
1.7.14 LAB 329(330) CON 268 (263) LD 29(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24(24) (Ed is crap is PM)
8.7.14 LAB 330 (329) CON 264(268) LD 32(29) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
15.7.14 LAB 329 (330) CON 264(264) LD 33(32) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
22.7.14 LAB 331 (329) CON 261(264) LD 34(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
29.7.14 LAB 332 (331) CON 260(261) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
5.8.14 LAB 330(332) CON 262(260) LD 34(34 UKIP0(0) Others 24 (Ed is Crap is PM)
12.8.14 LAB 332 (330) CON 260(262) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
18.8.14 LAB 331(332) CON 261(260) LD 34(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM
26.8.14 LAB 333(331) CON 259(261)LD(34)UKIP 0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM
2.9.14 LAB331(333) CON261(259) LD24(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM
9.9.14 LAB332(331) CON260(261) LD34(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM
16.9.14 LAB 331(332) CON 262(260) LD 33(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM
23.9.14 LAB 334 (331) CON 260(262) LD 32(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
*No I haven't got the data. Hypothetical point.
Now an awful lot of reliance being placed on self assessed tax receipts from all those thousands of newly created self employed entrepreneurs the Tories keep lauding!
I trust we're all excited about Ed Miliband's forthcoming oratorical offering.
There is a daily forecast on this site that used to mainly have Tories most seats last few have had LAB most seats (narrowly) as above.
GE2015 is clearly going to be very close.
IMO Ed will squeak it but we will see.
My memory (which could be false) is that it was called that because of a famous speech by Tam Dayell (?sp) a great Labour MP OE. He had about 3 or 4 examples of Scottish towns paired with English towns with the same initial letter that he used as a rhetorical device.
But he was the MP for West Lothian, so that was the name that stuck.
I for one don't care how he looks when he eats a sandwich of any sort, who wouldn't look awkward once or twice if photographed eating 100 times?
But to link it to anti semitism is ridiculous. It looks like people are searching for things to be offended by.
The only way I'd think it was anti Semitic is if the sandwich wasn't bacon but people were reporting that it was
If it does make a point it is perhaps that the UK has endured for so long because constitutional anomalies have been tolerated or, more credibly, because the two-sided fight for temporary partisan advantage has largely evened out over time.
Maybe it makes a quirky sort of constitutional balance if the Conservatives win English Votes for English Laws, while Labour get to keep the relatively depopulated inner city seats?
Not my preference - I'm more of an idealistic search for perfection sort of person - but it seems in keeping with the way this country has historically done this sort of thing. Very untidily and to no-one's complete satisfaction.
It's not just the leader of the Labour Party that is out of touch with Britain as a whole....
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/what-west-lothian-question
What I call the "Michael Havers" approach (although given the special circumstances in that case, I believe Margaret was right to be generous)
Ed looked a berk. That's the reality, get over it.
I'm expecting a tax cut for the middle class and tax rises for the parasite high earners/bankers
Except for those products which are approved by the MHRA, which should be taxed as the licensed medicines they are.
(I may, just may, have an interest in this...) :-) :-)
http://www.mediafire.com/view/b0p8qsmjp1ab8ac/YouGov polls since 2010GE.jpg#
How would you describe the general direction of the red line during the last 500 or so polls?
The distinct Scottish legal and educational, etc., systems (enshrined in the 1707 Treaty) do make any monolithic single UK system impossible without addressing that issue, because of their existence and the problem of non-Scottish MPs voting on them. Mr Blair can't be blamed for that - though he did reduce the intensity of that problem by (a) winning in 1997 and (b) setting up the Scottish Parliament. Of course, he did create others ...
Much more likely he will try and control the cost of something they buy - water or train fares.
Yes thats it - a cut in train fares for hard working London Labour members...
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 1h
???
33% of Ukip voters in @LordAshcroft poll say they're worried that EU referendum would lead to UK leaving EU
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByM6XYYCYAA4lKa.jpg:large
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/camila-batmanghelidjhs-kids-company-charity-will-close-by-the-end-of-the-year-without-further-government-funding-9747890.html
Donations will be free from income tax, heavily reliant on local authority grants, and support from Government, happy to play victim in the media what could possibly go wrong?
1) The powers devolved to the GLA are much less than in Scotland, and I think less than Wales. In many cases (e.g. policing) these are already well split up in the rest of the country.
2) London is a machine that sucks in resources from its surroundings and chucks out (mostly) capital. For instance transport in London effects areas outside London; with Crossrail going well into Essex and now up to Reading and possibly Aylesbury, and Thameslink between Bedford and Brighton. It makes sense for the rest of England to have a say on what happens with transport in London.
Of course, it should be pharmaceutical grade nicotine (not the agricultural stuff from Asia that most e-cigs use) and I wouldn't personally put a battery and heating element in my mouth
Er - am I missing something ?
Southampton to beat Arsenal, and Middlesbrough to beat Liverpool
I wonder what odds Gordon Brown would be.
@JoeWatts_: The Ed Miliband random phrase generator by....The Guardian http://t.co/FY6rHcZstk via @dylsharpe
(I must say again: I am not against reform of the current railway organisation, and that may include renationalisation. It is just that the people arguing for renationalisaiton do so on incredibly bogus or naive arguments. They also fail to define the problems that are trying to solve, and ignore the successes of the current system in what looks like at attempt to throw the baby out with the bathwater)
"Cameron to cut public funds for Scotland"
No surprise, of course. The beauty of it for both the Tories and the SNP is that any such action seriously damages the British Labour Party in Scotland because of the now proven complicity with the Tories.
It's APF receipts that are down just under £15bn, while debt interest payments are the fastest growing area of expenditure.
But still a nasty bully. And not as smart as he thought he was.
And the BBC has this to say on tax receipts: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29324751
At least we are agreed that Enoch was the first to term the puzzle the "West Lothian Question", and I therefore expect the term to barely be used on PB again!
YG last 7 month averages 4,4,3,4,3,4,3,3
September currently could be either 3 or 4 (exactly 3.5 at the moment)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-warner/11114289/Nothing-has-been-learned-from-our-fiscal-ruination.html
" Britain still has a mountain to climb in getting back to fiscal sustainability. Nothing I heard on Monday suggested anything remotely resembling recognition of the scale of the problem.
And as I say, judging by the polling, what we were seeing was the next British government in waiting. Frightening. "
Public support for Powell was huge, and his predictions have been proven correct
Why do we even bother with these arguments? I will defend him to the hilt and you will cherry pick quotes that allow you to exhibit self pity. Boring.
I think he was right, you think he was wrong. End of argument really, although I guess I you get a lot of comments from me and that makes you look competent in mikes absence click counter wise
Over the next 7 months the focus will be upon the pending General Election.
As an aside, does Socrates display self pity when he criticises Enoch Powell?
However, when Labour were on 38 the chances of the Tories being able to scale up to that were virtually non existent, and the scope to cope with a bit of slippage was significant for Labour.
Labour are now regularly on 35. The Tories can conceivably poll that and a little bit beyond, while Labour's buffer against slippage is much thinner now.
The risk to Labour is greater with a three point lead of 35-32 than it was with 38-35.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-433497/Widow-Enoch-Powells-Rivers-Blood-speech-really-did-exist.html
But to use a speech from 40 years ago to try and excuse accusations of racism every time immigration is discussed is pretty weak.
Tories need at least 37 for even a minority Govt. IMO
"Its amazing that nationalism in places as far apart as Venezuela and Scotland is considered such a progressive force by Guardian commentators; but one sun-burnt yob with a flag of St. George and a can of lager - and they've run inside and set the burglar alarm."
Interesting, one of the pieces I read at school said, he would have become PM, had he proven the lady existed.
I did like this bit from the article
Despite her claims of feeling driven out, Druscilla stayed in Brighton Place until ill-health forced her to move to sheltered accommodation.
When she died in 1978, among the bouquets at her funeral there were flowers sent by the West Indian neighbours who she once claimed made her feel like a stranger in her own street.