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  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,259
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Had forgotten it was the last night of the proms this weekend. What was Salmond thinking with his timing? Surely a late swin to NO as everyone sings Rule Britannia.

    As a committedly British person...I've not even noticed when it was Last night of the proms for more years than I can remember.

    Could be worth some amusement at how it goes though, either way.
    I was on the train out of London on the night of the Last Night, and there were people with union jacks all over the place!
    I don't doubt. What stirs the fervour of one need not the other, nationalism and patriotism being funnily irrational beasts (and not so funnily on occasion of course).
    hunchman said:

    From Peter Kellner's piece in the Times

    A key reason for the renewed doubts about independence is fear of what might happen to people’s bank accounts. The biggest single advantage of the Union cited by “no” voters is that the UK would have the resources to step in if Scotland faced another crisis of the kind that erupted in 2008.

    BT can try to scare people all they like, but when its based on half truths at best, it really isn't much of a campaign platform. The Scottish people are better than that, all BT wish to do is tell them they're second rate citizens that can't go it alone - what an incredible insult which deserves contempt and rebelling against at every opportunity, particularly a week today.
    You mention half truths and then comment that BT are telling Scotland they are second rate citizens, which requires a long stretch to get even to a half truth, and only a partial truth if you take an extremely harsh interpretation of 'You would do better not going it alone' to 'You cannot go it alone because you are a weak and pathetic people' or some such interpretation.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,007
    AndyJS said:

    Galloway sounding very pro-Labour on QT.

    Must think Ed Milibands a "real deal" Socialist, LOL.

  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited September 2014
    Cumbria-Castle

    Lab 389 Con 245 UKIP 235 LibDem 112 Green 51
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,259
    jimmyczz said:

    All recent polls are well within the margin of error. imho its neck and neck and it will come down to turnout on the day.

    Hmm, that makes too much sense. I declare that the result is a foregone conclusion and all but decided, and that it is reality that is changing as we continue to swing back and forth. Yes on Sunday, then back to No by Wednesday, then crossing over 5 times on the Thursday
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    isam said:

    Not a big fan generally, but has anyone clocked how handsome Stalin was as a young man?!

    Historical Pics (@HistoricalPics)
    11/09/2014 21:30
    Young Joseph Stalin pic.twitter.com/DSfL98Syn2

    Still think Putin has got it over him. Joe actually looks like he could be an artist. Much more so than Adolf who used to paint postcards.
    Does Putin looks like general Von Klinkerhoffen from Allo Allo as he ages?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    It's all going wrong for them!
  • Options
    hunchman said:

    By remaining in the union, Scotland would be heading head long into a sovereign debt crisis with the rest of the UK which begins from October next year. And the UK have the resources to step in - total debt to GDP in the whole of the UK is around 500%. Try seeing how many economic resources are available when economic confidence turns down. One of the many reasons why Scotland would be better off independent.

    BT can try to scare people all they like, but when its based on half truths at best, it really isn't much of a campaign platform. The Scottish people are better than that, all BT wish to do is tell them they're second rate citizens that can't go it alone - what an incredible insult which deserves contempt and rebelling against at every opportunity, particularly a week today.

    So your advice to Scotland is that they should try to evade their fair share of the " sovereign debt crisis .. which begins from October next year" by leaving now and the rest of us with the debt.

    Well, it's a view.

    In the real world people go to jail if they try to place assets out of the reach of creditors.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    It's all going wrong for them!
    In what way? have more splitters have been detected in the UKIP camp?
  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited September 2014
    Newham

    Tonii WILSON, Labour, 1,006
    Syed Hussain AHMED, Conservative, 584
    David MEARS, UK Independence Party, 215
    Jane Alison LITHGOW, Green Party, 70
    David THORPE, Liberal Democrat, 43
    Kayode SHEDOWO, Christian People’s Alliance, 33
    Mark DUNNE, Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition, 21

    Total Number of votes: 1,983
    Electorate total: 10,510
    Turn out: 18.86%
    Number of valid votes: 1,972
    Number of Rejected Votes: 11
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,259

    hunchman said:

    By remaining in the union, Scotland would be heading head long into a sovereign debt crisis with the rest of the UK which begins from October next year. And the UK have the resources to step in - total debt to GDP in the whole of the UK is around 500%. Try seeing how many economic resources are available when economic confidence turns down. One of the many reasons why Scotland would be better off independent.

    BT can try to scare people all they like, but when its based on half truths at best, it really isn't much of a campaign platform. The Scottish people are better than that, all BT wish to do is tell them they're second rate citizens that can't go it alone - what an incredible insult which deserves contempt and rebelling against at every opportunity, particularly a week today.

    So your advice to Scotland is that they should try to evade their fair share of the " sovereign debt crisis .. which begins from October next year" by leaving now and the rest of us with the debt.

    Well, it's a view.

    In the real world people go to jail if they try to place assets out of the reach of creditors.
    Well I'm sure the crisis was nothing to do with Scotland, even if it was part of the UK at the time. Somehow.

    Anyway, good night all. Keep your strength up for the final stretch.

  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    hunchman said:

    BT wish to do is tell them they're second rate citizens that can't go it alone - what an incredible insult which deserves contempt and rebelling against at every opportunity, particularly a week today.

    That is just your projection of it. What the Scottish people are being told is "If you go it alone then you go it ALONE. We will not be there to help you if it all goes badly wrong. Good luck to you if you do it".

    There is no insult in that, just a statement of fact.
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591



    hunchman said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    surbiton said:

    Broon saved the world in 2009. In 2014, he saved the United Kingdom.

    What a man !

    Thats the tragedy of Brown, under it all, at root he is a decent man whos heart is in the right place, worth ten blairs, cleggs, or camerons. Wholly wrong type of person to be PM though in my opinion and he had to go.
    If the SNP implodes, Brown might become scottish first minister.
    If No wins and Salmond is left as a busted flush, I cannot see the SNP doing well in 2015 GE. The Tories may do well, particularly with the LDs also doing poorly. The Tories seem re-energised by their campaigning, so may be some gains.
    I predict the Tories will gain 2 or 3 seats in scotland in 2015.
    The only region in Britain where they will gain seats and votes.
    Of the seats that would go Tory if the results go as last Baxtered the longest shot is Edinburgh South at 66/1. A very long shot, but there are a lot of financial sector workers who are suddenly converted to the cause of Unionism...
    Edinburgh South going Tory?!! Give me a break, it was lost in 1987 at the height of Thatcherism. Even if the Yes campaign narrowly loses the referendum, I still think there will be a surge in support next May for the SNP which will make it harder for either Labour or the Tories to get a majority at the next GE. The forces of separation are rising everywhere, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Scots choose to say we want none of Team Westminster to command a majority government, in order to weaken their power base further - its a perfectly a logical response
    It was the poll Baxtered that flagged Edinburgh South as a Tory gain.

    But if Yes lose, then a lot of the bile and venom that is being directed at No, will turn internally in the SNP. revolutions tend to consume their own in the end.

    But we shall see...
    The SNP have been there before after the 1979 referendum. I don't think they will do the same this time though - and even if it is a narrow no vote, then when economic confidence turns down after October next year, that will light any remaining spark required to form independence. The rising tide of separation everywhere in Europe is a firm trend that is with UKIP and the SNP - a few setbacks are only like to prove short term ones with such a strong wind behind them.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    It's all going wrong for them!
    In what way? have more splitters have been detected in the UKIP camp?
    Dunno I'm just trying to fit in!

    If they win Clacton but only get 2nd in Manchester it's curtains for the kippers
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    I bet The Proclaimers wish there was a referendum every year?! Think of the royalties they're getting!
  • Options
    Example of your typical NO campaign scare-tactic:

    "The Sun will go supernova and destroy the entire solar system if Scotland votes YES!"
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Example of your typical NO campaign scare-tactic:

    "The Sun will go supernova and destroy the entire solar system if Scotland votes YES!"

    Example of Yes rebuttal

    The Sun will NOT go Supernova if that is the settled will of the Scottish peeple (sic)
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    Example of your typical NO campaign scare-tactic:

    "The Sun will go supernova and destroy the entire solar system if Scotland votes YES!"

    Example of Yes rebuttal

    The Sun will NOT go Supernova if that is the settled will of the Scottish peeple (sic)
    Another example :

    "HM Queen will have a massive heart attack and die if Scotland votes YES!"
  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited September 2014
    Newark and Sherwood - Collingham & Meering

    Conservative 568 Independent 476 UKIP 218 Labour 118

    Labour held Ollerton with 58% of the vote according to Sherwood PPC


  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    It's all going wrong for them!
    In what way? have more splitters have been detected in the UKIP camp?
    Dunno I'm just trying to fit in!

    If they win Clacton but only get 2nd in Manchester it's curtains for the kippers
    I think that Carswell being the very right wing public face of UKIP will repel a lot of the WWC voters that UKIP have recently courted.

    I did not like Carswell when he was a Tory, or as a kipper, but to see him defect improved both parties.
  • Options

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please give it up Mr. Fox, with every anti-UKIP post you look ever more desperate and increasingly ridiculous.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    "HM Queen will have a massive heart attack and die if Scotland votes YES!"

    The Queen will NEVER die if that is the settled will of the Scottish peeple
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    hunchman said:

    By remaining in the union, Scotland would be heading head long into a sovereign debt crisis with the rest of the UK which begins from October next year. And the UK have the resources to step in - total debt to GDP in the whole of the UK is around 500%. Try seeing how many economic resources are available when economic confidence turns down. One of the many reasons why Scotland would be better off independent.

    BT can try to scare people all they like, but when its based on half truths at best, it really isn't much of a campaign platform. The Scottish people are better than that, all BT wish to do is tell them they're second rate citizens that can't go it alone - what an incredible insult which deserves contempt and rebelling against at every opportunity, particularly a week today.

    So your advice to Scotland is that they should try to evade their fair share of the " sovereign debt crisis .. which begins from October next year" by leaving now and the rest of us with the debt.

    Well, it's a view.

    In the real world people go to jail if they try to place assets out of the reach of creditors.
    Scotland will have plenty of fiscal benefits from going alone - £4.2bn saved on their share of HS2 when not one rail, sleeper or pound of ballast is on their soil. Spain would veto any application for Scottish EU membership, so they would be £1bn better off per year from not having to fund the net contribution to the EU (their share of it), plus all the savings on avoiding EU red tape and bureaucracy / compliance with crazy laws plus lower energy bills from not being constrained by the 20% renewables target by 2020. Outside the EU they could also get much better free trade deals than what's on offer with the EU to export whisky, surpus energy etc that they do currently. Then there is 90% of the oil and gas revenues as opposed to 10% currently in the UK. On top of that they've got the Trident savings as well, reduction in their share of funding the Westminster bureaucracy as well, so there's a lot of benefits from going it alone.

    What a contrast to the constant doom and gloom scaremongering of BT, with the very real risk of an almighty sovereign debt crisis from staying in the Union lying in wait just over a year down the road from now whoever wins the next GE in May.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:


    "HM Queen will have a massive heart attack and die if Scotland votes YES!"

    The Queen will NEVER die if that is the settled will of the Scottish peeple
    Here's another NO campaign scare tactic:

    "There will be all-out global thermonuclear war if Scotland votes YES!"
  • Options

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    It's all going wrong for them!
    In what way? have more splitters have been detected in the UKIP camp?
    Dunno I'm just trying to fit in!

    If they win Clacton but only get 2nd in Manchester it's curtains for the kippers
    I think that Carswell being the very right wing public face of UKIP will repel a lot of the WWC voters that UKIP have recently courted.

    I did not like Carswell when he was a Tory, or as a kipper, but to see him defect improved both parties.
    Just shows how out of touch you are with the WWC
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2014

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    It's all going wrong for them!
    In what way? have more splitters have been detected in the UKIP camp?
    Dunno I'm just trying to fit in!

    If they win Clacton but only get 2nd in Manchester it's curtains for the kippers
    I think that Carswell being the very right wing public face of UKIP will repel a lot of the WWC voters that UKIP have recently courted.

    I did not like Carswell when he was a Tory, or as a kipper, but to see him defect improved both parties.
    I'm sure you hope so but Clacton is a very WWC place, and Carswell is extremely popular with them... I think you better hope some more!
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please give it up Mr. Fox, with every anti-UKIP post you look ever more desperate and increasingly ridiculous.
    I am in a majority. Polls show that UKIP are the most disliked mainstream party in the country.

    Kippers are very good at looking ridiculous, with Neil Hamilton as deputy chair, and splitters everywhere, not to mention a manifesto that their own leader did not bother reading.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please give it up Mr. Fox, with every anti-UKIP post you look ever more desperate and increasingly ridiculous.
    I am in a majority. Polls show that UKIP are the most disliked mainstream party in the country.

    Kippers are very good at looking ridiculous, with Neil Hamilton as deputy chair, and splitters everywhere, not to mention a manifesto that their own leader did not bother reading.
    I'm sorry to have to correct your every post, but Farage wasn't leader when that manifesto was written
  • Options

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    It's all going wrong for them!
    In what way? have more splitters have been detected in the UKIP camp?
    Dunno I'm just trying to fit in!

    If they win Clacton but only get 2nd in Manchester it's curtains for the kippers
    I think that Carswell being the very right wing public face of UKIP will repel a lot of the WWC voters that UKIP have recently courted.

    I did not like Carswell when he was a Tory, or as a kipper, but to see him defect improved both parties.
    I suspect Carswell's support in recent polls is vastly overstated and was just a function of the hullabaloo in the aftermath of his defection. I fail to see how a Tory with a funnily shaped mouth who specializes in esoteric localist thought experiments can have that much of a cult following.
  • Options
    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    hunchman says - ''all BT wish to do is tell them they're second rate citizens that can't go it alone - what an incredible insult which deserves contempt''

    I am afraid that remark, so full of dissembling and disingenuity, is what deserves contempt. If Scotland were to become independent it deserves better advocacy than that.
  • Options

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please give it up Mr. Fox, with every anti-UKIP post you look ever more desperate and increasingly ridiculous.
    I am in a majority. Polls show that UKIP are the most disliked mainstream party in the country.

    Kippers are very good at looking ridiculous, with Neil Hamilton as deputy chair, and splitters everywhere, not to mention a manifesto that their own leader did not bother reading.
    Oh dear!

    Think the polls will tell you that UKIP are much more popular than your bunch of perjurors (Huhne), anti-Semites (Ward), child molesters (Hancock), sex pests (Rennard), con merchants (Laws) and traitors (all of them)
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please give it up Mr. Fox, with every anti-UKIP post you look ever more desperate and increasingly ridiculous.
    I am in a majority. Polls show that UKIP are the most disliked mainstream party in the country.

    Kippers are very good at looking ridiculous, with Neil Hamilton as deputy chair, and splitters everywhere, not to mention a manifesto that their own leader did not bother reading.
    I'm sorry to have to correct your every post, but Farage wasn't leader when that manifesto was written
    He was a candidate, who came third behind a pro-EU tory in that election, maybe he would have done better if he had read his own manifesto.

    Carwell has a hard right agenda to cut privatise the welfare state and NHS. Try selling that on the doorsteps of Rotherham.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2014

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    It's all going wrong for them!
    In what way? have more splitters have been detected in the UKIP camp?
    Dunno I'm just trying to fit in!

    If they win Clacton but only get 2nd in Manchester it's curtains for the kippers
    I think that Carswell being the very right wing public face of UKIP will repel a lot of the WWC voters that UKIP have recently courted.

    I did not like Carswell when he was a Tory, or as a kipper, but to see him defect improved both parties.
    I suspect Carswell's support in recent polls is vastly overstated and was just a function of the hullabaloo in the aftermath of his defection. I fail to see how a Tory with a funnily shaped mouth who specializes in esoteric localist thought experiments can have that much of a cult following.
    He's so unpopular he turned an 800 majority into 12,000
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Anne Treneman is having fun thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4204191.ece
    Mr Salmond said the Yes camp had approached the campaign with humility. I quite enjoyed that because if you have to say it, well, you know. But I didn’t dare laugh because this was a strange press conference in that it was packed with Yes supporters who heckled questions they didn’t like.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2014

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please give it up Mr. Fox, with every anti-UKIP post you look ever more desperate and increasingly ridiculous.
    I am in a majority. Polls show that UKIP are the most disliked mainstream party in the country.

    Kippers are very good at looking ridiculous, with Neil Hamilton as deputy chair, and splitters everywhere, not to mention a manifesto that their own leader did not bother reading.
    I'm sorry to have to correct your every post, but Farage wasn't leader when that manifesto was written
    He was a candidate, who came third behind a pro-EU tory in that election, maybe he would have done better if he had read his own manifesto.

    Carwell has a hard right agenda to cut privatise the welfare state and NHS. Try selling that on the doorsteps of Rotherham.
    I think Recent events have done UKIPs work for them in Rotherham
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,294
    hunchman said:

    BT can try to scare people all they like, but when its based on half truths at best, it really isn't much of a campaign platform. The Scottish people are better than that, all BT wish to do is tell them they're second rate citizens that can't go it alone - what an incredible insult which deserves contempt and rebelling against at every opportunity, particularly a week today.

    If truth is a desirable characteristic, then why is Salmond lying to the Scottish people by telling them that a currency union is an option?
    If Scotland can go it alone, then why is walking away from its share of the debt being considered?

    It needn't have been like this. A honest case for independence can be made. It's possible that in a stable West after the Cold War, smaller nations may be optimal and a single polity of 5million may suit the Scottish people more than a larger one of 65million. There would be dislocation costs (quite large, imo) but it would recover and may thrive: it's not clear-cut and the morale booster of living in the early days of a better nation may lead to greater happiness.

    But we didn't get that, did we?

    What we got was some numpty saying East Germany joined the EU[1], that Scotland was a member of the EU[2], that a currency union can be coerced,[3] and that iScotland can renege on the debt.[4] These were lies to the Scottish people, who deserved the facts so they could make the best decision about their lives.

    [1] It joined (West) Germany, which was already a member
    [2] It isn't. The UK is a member.
    [3] No i can't: the risk is too big
    [4] No debt assumption, no independence:


  • Options

    hunchman says - ''all BT wish to do is tell them they're second rate citizens that can't go it alone - what an incredible insult which deserves contempt''

    I am afraid that remark, so full of dissembling and disingenuity, is what deserves contempt. If Scotland were to become independent it deserves better advocacy than that.

    "The Scots are too poor to become an independent nation"
    "The Scots are too stupid to become an independent nation"
    "The Scots are too anti-English to become an independent nation"
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Latest score:

    56 polls during 2014, YES 1, NO 55.

    If they can time no.2 for election day, that's all they need.
    Has there ever been a campaign in history where the winner had been ahead in 1 out of 50ish polls? Could happen but seems unlikely.
    1992?
    Just checked and the Tories were ahead in 6 polls out of 50 during the 1992 campaign.
  • Options

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please give it up Mr. Fox, with every anti-UKIP post you look ever more desperate and increasingly ridiculous.
    I am in a majority. Polls show that UKIP are the most disliked mainstream party in the country.

    Kippers are very good at looking ridiculous, with Neil Hamilton as deputy chair, and splitters everywhere, not to mention a manifesto that their own leader did not bother reading.
    I'm sorry to have to correct your every post, but Farage wasn't leader when that manifesto was written
    He was a candidate, who came third behind a pro-EU tory in that election, maybe he would have done better if he had read his own manifesto.

    Carwell has a hard right agenda to cut privatise the welfare state and NHS. Try selling that on the doorsteps of Rotherham.
    Out of interest Mr. Fox do you work solely for the NHS or do you carry out any private work?
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    215 votes for UKIP in Beckton is a respectable performance.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please give it up Mr. Fox, with every anti-UKIP post you look ever more desperate and increasingly ridiculous.
    I am in a majority. Polls show that UKIP are the most disliked mainstream party in the country.

    Kippers are very good at looking ridiculous, with Neil Hamilton as deputy chair, and splitters everywhere, not to mention a manifesto that their own leader did not bother reading.
    Oh dear!

    Think the polls will tell you that UKIP are much more popular than your bunch of perjurors (Huhne), anti-Semites (Ward), child molesters (Hancock), sex pests (Rennard), con merchants (Laws) and traitors (all of them)
    The polls will change, they always do, and there will be more LD MPs than UKIP ones next year. I have never defended any of the people that you mention, and have criticised all of them over the last few years.

    Seeing Carwell sitting alongside the Labour party on the opposition benches will be a prologue to seeing UKIP put Miliband and Balls into power. Then in 2015 Carswell will be sharing the opposition benches with Mr Clegg again. Oh! the irony, and politics does make for strange bedfellows...
  • Options
    Is George Galloway a closet Tory?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please give it up Mr. Fox, with every anti-UKIP post you look ever more desperate and increasingly ridiculous.
    I am in a majority. Polls show that UKIP are the most disliked mainstream party in the country.

    Kippers are very good at looking ridiculous, with Neil Hamilton as deputy chair, and splitters everywhere, not to mention a manifesto that their own leader did not bother reading.
    I'm sorry to have to correct your every post, but Farage wasn't leader when that manifesto was written
    He was a candidate, who came third behind a pro-EU tory in that election, maybe he would have done better if he had read his own manifesto.

    Carwell has a hard right agenda to cut privatise the welfare state and NHS. Try selling that on the doorsteps of Rotherham.
    Out of interest Mr. Fox do you work solely for the NHS or do you carry out any private work?
    I do a bit of both, but mostly NHS.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Unfortunate news: 40 dogs killed in a fire at an animal rescue centre in Manchester. 150 rescued.
  • Options

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please give it up Mr. Fox, with every anti-UKIP post you look ever more desperate and increasingly ridiculous.
    I am in a majority. Polls show that UKIP are the most disliked mainstream party in the country.

    Kippers are very good at looking ridiculous, with Neil Hamilton as deputy chair, and splitters everywhere, not to mention a manifesto that their own leader did not bother reading.
    Oh dear!

    Think the polls will tell you that UKIP are much more popular than your bunch of perjurors (Huhne), anti-Semites (Ward), child molesters (Hancock), sex pests (Rennard), con merchants (Laws) and traitors (all of them)
    The polls will change, they always do, and there will be more LD MPs than UKIP ones next year. I have never defended any of the people that you mention, and have criticised all of them over the last few years.

    Seeing Carwell sitting alongside the Labour party on the opposition benches will be a prologue to seeing UKIP put Miliband and Balls into power. Then in 2015 Carswell will be sharing the opposition benches with Mr Clegg again. Oh! the irony, and politics does make for strange bedfellows...
    He has principles, a noble concept that is way beyond the comprehension of a Lib Dem.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,349
    Looks like the Yes momentum has now stalled and started to reverse. Was an interesting debate tonight with Galloway and Sturgeon battling each other hard, and Sunil no he is not, he thinks Nicola Sturgeon is a Tartan Thatcher.

    Also, attended an excellent concert tonight by Tony Bennett at Birmingham Symphony Hall
  • Options

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please give it up Mr. Fox, with every anti-UKIP post you look ever more desperate and increasingly ridiculous.
    I am in a majority. Polls show that UKIP are the most disliked mainstream party in the country.

    Kippers are very good at looking ridiculous, with Neil Hamilton as deputy chair, and splitters everywhere, not to mention a manifesto that their own leader did not bother reading.
    I'm sorry to have to correct your every post, but Farage wasn't leader when that manifesto was written
    He was a candidate, who came third behind a pro-EU tory in that election, maybe he would have done better if he had read his own manifesto.

    Carwell has a hard right agenda to cut privatise the welfare state and NHS. Try selling that on the doorsteps of Rotherham.
    Out of interest Mr. Fox do you work solely for the NHS or do you carry out any private work?
    I do a bit of both, but mostly NHS.
    A hypocritical Lib Dem, who'd a thought it?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,349
    FrankBooth Indeed, am going to 'Proms in the Park' on Saturday, hopefully it can be our 'Unity Rally'
  • Options

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please give it up Mr. Fox, with every anti-UKIP post you look ever more desperate and increasingly ridiculous.
    I am in a majority. Polls show that UKIP are the most disliked mainstream party in the country.

    Kippers are very good at looking ridiculous, with Neil Hamilton as deputy chair, and splitters everywhere, not to mention a manifesto that their own leader did not bother reading.
    Oh dear!

    Think the polls will tell you that UKIP are much more popular than your bunch of perjurors (Huhne), anti-Semites (Ward), child molesters (Hancock), sex pests (Rennard), con merchants (Laws) and traitors (all of them)
    The polls will change, they always do, and there will be more LD MPs than UKIP ones next year. I have never defended any of the people that you mention, and have criticised all of them over the last few years.

    Seeing Carwell sitting alongside the Labour party on the opposition benches will be a prologue to seeing UKIP put Miliband and Balls into power. Then in 2015 Carswell will be sharing the opposition benches with Mr Clegg again. Oh! the irony, and politics does make for strange bedfellows...
    I forgot to mention Jihad Jenny.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Well said.
    viewcode said:

    hunchman said:

    BT can try to scare people all they like, but when its based on half truths at best, it really isn't much of a campaign platform. The Scottish people are better than that, all BT wish to do is tell them they're second rate citizens that can't go it alone - what an incredible insult which deserves contempt and rebelling against at every opportunity, particularly a week today.

    If truth is a desirable characteristic, then why is Salmond lying to the Scottish people by telling them that a currency union is an option?
    If Scotland can go it alone, then why is walking away from its share of the debt being considered?

    It needn't have been like this. A honest case for independence can be made. It's possible that in a stable West after the Cold War, smaller nations may be optimal and a single polity of 5million may suit the Scottish people more than a larger one of 65million. There would be dislocation costs (quite large, imo) but it would recover and may thrive: it's not clear-cut and the morale booster of living in the early days of a better nation may lead to greater happiness.

    But we didn't get that, did we?

    What we got was some numpty saying East Germany joined the EU[1], that Scotland was a member of the EU[2], that a currency union can be coerced,[3] and that iScotland can renege on the debt.[4] These were lies to the Scottish people, who deserved the facts so they could make the best decision about their lives.

    [1] It joined (West) Germany, which was already a member
    [2] It isn't. The UK is a member.
    [3] No i can't: the risk is too big
    [4] No debt assumption, no independence:


  • Options
    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please give it up Mr. Fox, with every anti-UKIP post you look ever more desperate and increasingly ridiculous.
    I am in a majority. Polls show that UKIP are the most disliked mainstream party in the country.

    Kippers are very good at looking ridiculous, with Neil Hamilton as deputy chair, and splitters everywhere, not to mention a manifesto that their own leader did not bother reading.
    I'm sorry to have to correct your every post, but Farage wasn't leader when that manifesto was written
    Are you taking lessons from Alex Salmond? Farage resigned as leader in Sept 2009 but was leader again 12 months later after the 2010 general election. Are you saying he could not care less about the UKIP manifesto? He campaigned on behalf of UKIP for a seat in parliament without bothering to read his own party's manifesto and if he did read it he thought it was rubbish.
    So just what (apart from Nigel Farage) does Nigel Farage believe in? if youn look at his miserable record in Westminster elections you can understand his eagerness to forget the EU and pander to the lowest common denominator of prejudice he can find.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited September 2014

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please .
    I am in a majority.
    I'm sorry to have to correct your every post, but Farage wasn't leader when that manifesto was written
    .
    Out of interest Mr. Fox do you work solely for the NHS or do you carry out any private work?
    I do a bit of both, but mostly NHS.
    A hypocritical Lib Dem, who'd a thought it?
    Nothing hypocritical about it, Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems all advocated increased use of the private sector in health care in their last electoral manifestos. But even if they did want to ban it, one has to work in the environment that one finds oneself in.

    I started doing some private work when Tony Blair was PM, as it did look as if the Labour Party was going to break up the NHS by means of its internal market. If it did so, I did not want to be sold off like a serf to some US corporation, as an artisan my skills are where the value is, and like everyone else (apart from Salmond) there is a need for a back up plan.
  • Options
    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    It's all going wrong for them!
    In what way? have more splitters have been detected in the UKIP camp?
    Dunno I'm just trying to fit in!

    If they win Clacton but only get 2nd in Manchester it's curtains for the kippers
    I think that Carswell being the very right wing public face of UKIP will repel a lot of the WWC voters that UKIP have recently courted.

    I did not like Carswell when he was a Tory, or as a kipper, but to see him defect improved both parties.
    I'm sure you hope so but Clacton is a very WWC place, and Carswell is extremely popular with them... I think you better hope some more!
    Clacton is actually full of 'people' - its you that wants to package them in black shirts
  • Options

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    It's all going wrong for them!
    In what way? have more splitters have been detected in the UKIP camp?
    Dunno I'm just trying to fit in!

    If they win Clacton but only get 2nd in Manchester it's curtains for the kippers
    I think that Carswell being the very right wing public face of UKIP will repel a lot of the WWC voters that UKIP have recently courted.

    I did not like Carswell when he was a Tory, or as a kipper, but to see him defect improved both parties.
    I'm sure you hope so but Clacton is a very WWC place, and Carswell is extremely popular with them... I think you better hope some more!
    Clacton is actually full of 'people' - its you that wants to package them in black shirts
    Please explain exactly what you are implicating
  • Options

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please .
    I am in a majority.
    I'm sorry to have to correct your every post, but Farage wasn't leader when that manifesto was written
    .
    Out of interest Mr. Fox do you work solely for the NHS or do you carry out any private work?
    I do a bit of both, but mostly NHS.
    A hypocritical Lib Dem, who'd a thought it?
    Nothing hypocritical about it, Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems all advocated increased use of the private sector in health care in their last electoral manifestos. But even if they did want to ban it, one has to work in the environment that one finds oneself in.

    I started doing some private work when Tony Blair was PM, as it did look as if the Labour Party was going to break up the NHS by means of its internal market. If it did so, I did not want to be sold off like a serf to some US corporation, as an artisan my skills are where the value is, and like everyone else (apart from Salmond) there is a need for a back up plan.
    So looking after number one is the priority, think we all understand you now.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,042
    Are we getting the ICM tonight? or is that tomorrow night?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    Looking hopeful for No, but I'd wait to see the next poll before declaring a widening gap. The Brown Home Rule speech seems to be the event that turned the tide, but events sometimes wear off after a few days.
  • Options
    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    hunchman said:

    hunchman said:

    By remaining in the union, Scotland would be heading head long into a sovereign debt crisis with the rest of the UK which begins from October next year. And the UK have the resources to step in - total debt to GDP in the whole of the UK is around 500%. Try seeing how many economic resources are available when economic confidence turns down. One of the many reasons why Scotland would be better off independent.

    ....

    So your advice to Scotland is that they should try to evade their fair share of the " sovereign debt crisis .. which begins from October next year" by leaving now and the rest of us with the debt.

    Well, it's a view.

    In the real world people go to jail if they try to place assets out of the reach of creditors.
    Scotland will have plenty of fiscal benefits from going alone - £4.2bn saved on their share of HS2 when not one rail, sleeper or pound of ballast is on their soil. Spain would veto any application for Scottish EU membership, so they would be £1bn better off per year from not having to fund the net contribution to the EU (their share of it), plus all the savings on avoiding EU red tape and bureaucracy / compliance with crazy laws plus lower energy bills from not being constrained by the 20% renewables target by 2020. Outside the EU they could also get much better free trade deals than what's on offer with the EU to export whisky, surpus energy etc that they do currently. Then there is 90% of the oil and gas revenues as opposed to 10% currently in the UK. On top of that they've got the Trident savings as well, reduction in their share of funding the Westminster bureaucracy as well, so there's a lot of benefits from going it alone.

    What a contrast to the constant doom and gloom scaremongering of BT, with the very real risk of an almighty sovereign debt crisis from staying in the Union lying in wait just over a year down the road from now whoever wins the next GE in May.
    Scotland has its own transport budget for transport projects in Scotland. HS2 from London to Manchester and Leeds will not be paid for by Scottish money. Even now if Scotland want HS2 to reach Glasgow and Edinburgh then it will have to find the budget itself from its own budgets. This would be the same if independent. To you it seems 'independence' means 'isolation'. Good luck with that. You also have a peculiar notion of what a free trade deal is. I suggest you look at how much Norway contributes to the EU in return for access to the EU single market and all its regulations. But I thought Salmond loved the EU anyway.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    It's all going wrong for them!
    In what way? have more splitters have been detected in the UKIP camp?
    Dunno I'm just trying to fit in!

    If they win Clacton but only get 2nd in Manchester it's curtains for the kippers
    I think that Carswell being the very right wing public face of UKIP will repel a lot of the WWC voters that UKIP have recently courted.

    I did not like Carswell when he was a Tory, or as a kipper, but to see him defect improved both parties.
    I'm sure you hope so but Clacton is a very WWC place, and Carswell is extremely popular with them... I think you better hope some more!
    Clacton is actually full of 'people' - its you that wants to package them in black shirts
    Boooooring
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    ton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please give it up Mr. Fox, with every anti-UKIP post you look ever more desperate and increasingly ridiculous.
    I am in a majority. Polls show that UKIP are the most disliked mainstream party in the country.

    Kippers are very good at looking ridiculous, with Neil Hamilton as deputy chair, and splitters everywhere, not to mention a manifesto that their own leader did not bother reading.
    I'm sorry to have to correct your every post, but Farage wasn't leader when that manifesto was written
    Are you taking lessons from Alex Salmond? Farage resigned as leader in Sept 2009 but was leader again 12 months later after the 2010 general election. Are you saying he could not care less about the UKIP manifesto? He campaigned on behalf of UKIP for a seat in parliament without bothering to read his own party's manifesto and if he did read it he thought it was rubbish.
    So just what (apart from Nigel Farage) does Nigel Farage believe in? if youn look at his miserable record in Westminster elections you can understand his eagerness to forget the EU and pander to the lowest common denominator of prejudice he can find.
    He wasn't leader at the last GE that's all I said, and it's true

    He'll be an mp after the next one though

    Gnight x
  • Options
    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    RobD said:

    Are we getting the ICM tonight? or is that tomorrow night?

    Their polls have been for Scotland on Sunday so I was expecting it Saturday night.

  • Options
    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Looking hopeful for No, but I'd wait to see the next poll before declaring a widening gap. The Brown Home Rule speech seems to be the event that turned the tide, but events sometimes wear off after a few days.

    What odds Brown standing down from Westminster in 2015 and leading Scottish Labour to victory in 2016....?
  • Options
    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    But he is a local councillor, supporter of the theatre and charities and seems a very good candidate in ordinary circumstances. It will be an interesting contest. I wonder what his position on the EU is.

    I agree though about Bread. It was a bit lame.
    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    It's all going wrong for them!
    In what way? have more splitters have been detected in the UKIP camp?
    Dunno I'm just trying to fit in!

    If they win Clacton but only get 2nd in Manchester it's curtains for the kippers
    I think that Carswell being the very right wing public face of UKIP will repel a lot of the WWC voters that UKIP have recently courted.

    I did not like Carswell when he was a Tory, or as a kipper, but to see him defect improved both parties.
    I'm sure you hope so but Clacton is a very WWC place, and Carswell is extremely popular with them... I think you better hope some more!
    Clacton is actually full of 'people' - its you that wants to package them in black shirts
    Boooooring
    You are the one categorisng people and bringing colour into it. I would sooner be boring than what you are.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    Weird, I see the most read story is "Scotland 'on cusp of making history' ".
    That Bread star is nowhere on the BBC top 10 read pieces.

    However it iswebsite.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please .
    I am in a majority.
    I'm sorry to have to correct your every post, but Farage wasn't leader when that manifesto was written
    .
    Out of interest Mr. Fox do you work solely for the NHS or do you carry out any private work?
    I do a bit of both, but mostly NHS.
    A hypocritical Lib Dem, who'd a thought it?
    Nothing hypocritical about it, Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems all advocated increased use of the private sector in health care in their last electoral manifestos. But even if they did want to ban it, one has to work in the environment that one finds oneself in.

    I started doing some private work when Tony Blair was PM, as it did look as if the Labour Party was going to break up the NHS by means of its internal market. If it did so, I did not want to be sold off like a serf to some US corporation, as an artisan my skills are where the value is, and like everyone else (apart from Salmond) there is a need for a back up plan.
    So looking after number one is the priority, think we all understand you now.
    It is important to look after the finances, if you want to be able to look after anything else. I am an orange booker!

    But I enjoy working in the NHS. I have great colleagues, enjoy teaching at the medical school and relish being able to help the rich tapestry of life that is the British public. I love my job.
  • Options
    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited September 2014
    For me as a Scot voting in the Indy Referendum, the difficult questions and hard facts are not scare tactics. As I pointed out on twitter earlier, any poll which had more women backing Yes #IndyRef should have been treated with caution, women, young & over 55's will vote No in comfortable numbers.
  • Options
    RobCRobC Posts: 398

    Looking hopeful for No, but I'd wait to see the next poll before declaring a widening gap. The Brown Home Rule speech seems to be the event that turned the tide, but events sometimes wear off after a few days.

    That and the interventions by business since - however I agree this could wear off and Salmond and his gang will tug on heart strings constantly. Unionists of all persuasions really can't relax until polling stations close.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2014
    Conservatives have selected their new candidate for Labour's number one target seat in North Warwickshire: Craig Tracey. The Tory majority is 54 votes. Previous Labour MP Mike O'Brien is standing again.

    twitter.com/AthColeHerald/status/510190833619173376
    https://twitter.com/cpttamworth
  • Options
    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Speedy said:

    With all this important stuff, it's great to see the most read story on the BBC website currently....

    Bread star to stand in Clacton

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29163450

    ...

    However it is on No.13 most popular stories on the Clacton and Frinton gazette website.
    After his experiences in 'Bread' I'm sure he'll be ready to be a bit-part player in the by election
    When he gets a good hiding in the election the Clacton Tories will be toast!
    Very droll,

    He will get a spanning

    Ukip will have won the euros and have an MP by the autumn... Where did 2014 all go wrong for them?
    UKIP are a blind alley, always have been and always will be. Carswell is tilting at windmills.

    But it will be fun to see him upstaging Farage.
    Please .
    I am in a majority.
    I'm sorry to have to correct your every post, but Farage wasn't leader when that manifesto was written
    .
    Out of interest Mr. Fox do you work solely for the NHS or do you carry out any private work?
    I do a bit of both, but mostly NHS.
    A hypocritical Lib Dem, who'd a thought it?
    Nothing hypocritical about it, Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems all advocated increased use of the private sector in health care in their last electoral manifestos. But even if they did want to ban it, one has to work in the environment that one finds oneself in.

    I started doing some private work when Tony Blair was PM, as it did look as if the Labour Party was going to break up the NHS by means of its internal market. If it did so, I did not want to be sold off like a serf to some US corporation, as an artisan my skills are where the value is, and like everyone else (apart from Salmond) there is a need for a back up plan.
    So looking after number one is the priority, think we all understand you now.
    What he said was not 'looking after number one'. Everyone is entitled to look for a promotion, for a better job, even when working in the public sector. Thousands of people look for better jobs all the time.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Looking hopeful for No, but I'd wait to see the next poll before declaring a widening gap. The Brown Home Rule speech seems to be the event that turned the tide, but events sometimes wear off after a few days.

    I think the panic and Browns rash promises were just embarassing.

    If the tide changed (and it is yet to be proven) it was the more prosaic fading of a debate bounce combined with a spooking of the banks and other employers.

    Incidentally, I think that the Scottish financial sector will always be damaged goods after the campaign. It will not just revert to business as usual.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,042
    Neil said:

    RobD said:

    Are we getting the ICM tonight? or is that tomorrow night?

    Their polls have been for Scotland on Sunday so I was expecting it Saturday night.

    The one trailed was a telephone poll, which is not what SoS usually do?
  • Options
    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    RobD said:

    Neil said:

    RobD said:

    Are we getting the ICM tonight? or is that tomorrow night?

    Their polls have been for Scotland on Sunday so I was expecting it Saturday night.

    The one trailed was a telephone poll, which is not what SoS usually do?
    Was it? I missed that (been out all day). Yes, the usual SoS ones have been internet ones. But the last SoS one was their penultimate one so presumably they have one on Sunday too? So are ICM really doing two polls this week? Or are they switching methodology? Or producing two "final" polls? All will be revealed I'm sure!

  • Options
    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    No it didn't, Brown was just another Scots politician in a long line who have hit the campaign trail. And it would be very misleading to try to portray his intervention as being in any way pivotal in the campaign. Like the 2010 GE, some try to give Gordon Brown the plaudits for a Labour result that was almost entirely delivered by Jim Murphy. But hey, maybe I should just shut up and butt out, and let the Labour party keep repeating the same mistakes when it comes to overestimating Gordon Brown while underestimating Murpy or Darling.

    A whole host of politicians across the political spectrum have had a good BT campaign, remember Darling in the first TV debate with Salmond? Jim Murphy with his street campaign? Ruth Davidson has been playing a blinder and impressing with her contribution. If anything, Brown's more powers contribution has been a real turn off up here, and down South too, possible causing some divisive damage in the longer term. I just wanted to shout shut up when I saw what he was up to, really depressing. Its the tough questions and hard facts of what Independence would really mean that is winning the arguments up here, not yet more devolved powers in the future.

    Looking hopeful for No, but I'd wait to see the next poll before declaring a widening gap. The Brown Home Rule speech seems to be the event that turned the tide, but events sometimes wear off after a few days.

  • Options
    RobCRobC Posts: 398
    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Latest score:

    56 polls during 2014, YES 1, NO 55.

    If they can time no.2 for election day, that's all they need.
    Didn't 1992 GE have just one poll for the Tories yet they won?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,042
    RobC said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Latest score:

    56 polls during 2014, YES 1, NO 55.

    If they can time no.2 for election day, that's all they need.
    Didn't 1992 GE have just one poll for the Tories yet they won?
    AndyJS said there were six.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380

    Looking hopeful for No, but I'd wait to see the next poll before declaring a widening gap. The Brown Home Rule speech seems to be the event that turned the tide, but events sometimes wear off after a few days.

    I think the panic and Browns rash promises were just embarassing.

    If the tide changed (and it is yet to be proven) it was the more prosaic fading of a debate bounce combined with a spooking of the banks and other employers.
    Timing not quite right for that - the employer scare started after most of the fieldwork for the previous poll which showed a shift to No. It seems to me plausible enough - regardless of what any of us may think, it's reasonable to suppose that the shift has been in Scottish Labour voters (the Tories were already 92% No) and that they tend to be influenced by Gordon.
    Neil said:

    Looking hopeful for No, but I'd wait to see the next poll before declaring a widening gap. The Brown Home Rule speech seems to be the event that turned the tide, but events sometimes wear off after a few days.

    What odds Brown standing down from Westminster in 2015 and leading Scottish Labour to victory in 2016....?
    Seems a good idea to me! Much more fun from his point of view than just being a backbench MP. I expect he'd have some delicate moments with potential PM Miliband, but a little creative tension's not always a bad thing.

  • Options
    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983



    Seems a good idea to me! Much more fun from his point of view than just being a backbench MP. I expect he'd have some delicate moments with potential PM Miliband, but a little creative tension's not always a bad thing.

    Send him a postcard with the suggestion and tell him if it comes off he can take the two of us out for cocktails somewhere fancy in Edinburgh for coming up with the plan.

    It would solve Scottish Labour's lack of top talent problem!

    And it would turn Scotland into such a basket case they couldnt consider independence again for another 300 years! ;)
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Absolutely bang on the money with that post Fox. I have only been able to dip in and out of PB in recent weeks, but I clearly picked up the reaction and resentment of some of the posters on here to Brown's rash promises on here. IMHO, his last ditch intervention will end up yet again causing resentment and division, and therefore more wider long term damage within UK in the longer term. It was and remains the Economy stupid, not more devolved powers. I agreed with Richard Nabavi at the time, that few days were it all went a bit Corporeal Jones was just embarrassing, and I am a passionate No supporter.

    Looking hopeful for No, but I'd wait to see the next poll before declaring a widening gap. The Brown Home Rule speech seems to be the event that turned the tide, but events sometimes wear off after a few days.

    I think the panic and Browns rash promises were just embarassing.

    If the tide changed (and it is yet to be proven) it was the more prosaic fading of a debate bounce combined with a spooking of the banks and other employers.

    Incidentally, I think that the Scottish financial sector will always be damaged goods after the campaign. It will not just revert to business as usual.
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    Looking hopeful for No, but I'd wait to see the next poll before declaring a widening gap. The Brown Home Rule speech seems to be the event that turned the tide, but events sometimes wear off after a few days.

    I think the panic and Browns rash promises were just embarassing.

    If the tide changed (and it is yet to be proven) it was the more prosaic fading of a debate bounce combined with a spooking of the banks and other employers.

    Incidentally, I think that the Scottish financial sector will always be damaged goods after the campaign. It will not just revert to business as usual.
    Amen to that.

    Given the other polling evidence, surely the previous YouGov was the outlier and this just brings YouGov back into line with other polling companies - the "Yes lead that never was".....
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T:

    More than £100K raised in a few hours following fire at Manchester Dogs' Home:

    https://www.justgiving.com/manchesterdogshomemen
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2014
    RobD said:

    RobC said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Latest score:

    56 polls during 2014, YES 1, NO 55.

    If they can time no.2 for election day, that's all they need.
    Didn't 1992 GE have just one poll for the Tories yet they won?
    AndyJS said there were six.
    6 out of 50. Source = Times Guide 1992.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    More than £100K raised in a few hours following fire at Manchester Dogs' Home:

    https://www.justgiving.com/manchesterdogshomemen

    It could have been worse, I suppose. It could have gone to a cats' home.

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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,294
    Plato said:

    Well said.

    Thank you.

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Interesting fact highlighted by OGH:

    "Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 3h

    Support for YES still strong amongst men according to YouGov. 54% back independence against only 42% of women"
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    It may be a bitter truth for advocates of independence, but an independent Scotland would remain heavily dependent on rUK in a large number of ways. These ways are important for iScotland, but not particularly for its much larger neighbour. To secure an advantageous ongoing arrangement, it has to be able to make convincing proposals to rUK that deliver things rUK wants or needs – and the list of those, once there has been a Yes vote, is small. The upsides of a velvet divorce for Scotland are huge, and the downsides of the opposite – a grinding-wheel divorce? – even larger. But if a divorce is happening, its nature simply does not matter much to rUK. If there are independence negotiations, iScotland will essentially be a supplicant to rUK, so weak that it largely has to accept what rUK offers. Scottish voters need to bear that in mind when they head to the poll.

    http://devolutionmatters.wordpress.com/2014/09/09/negotiations-after-a-scottish-referendum-yes-vote/
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    Quiet on here tonight. Guess this time next week it may be a tad busier
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    The Revolutionary Communist Party of Britain (Marxist-Leninist) says Yes.
    The Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist) says No.

    Both purport to be unreconstructed hardline anti-revisionist parties and both would have judged the question according to the criteria set out by Stalin: "community of language, territory, economic life, and psychological make-up".
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Any predictions for the next Indy poll?
This discussion has been closed.