"Compare the number of parents put in custody for doing the best for their dying child this year vs the amount of parents charged for allowing FGM in the last twenty"
You raise an interesting comparison. Obviously parents who subject their daughters to FGM are doing what they believe is in the best interest of their child but as many parents have discovered what they believe to be in the best interests of the child isn't the final word.
It would be an interesting comparison were it not for the fact that for the past 30 years FGM has been a criminal offence in this country whereas being in dispute with your doctor about the best treatment for your child has not been.
It would be a very odd parent indeed to think that committing a criminal act on your child is acting in that child's best interests.
Any canvassing reports tonight DavidL. Paddy Power makes Dundee the favourite to get the biggest % of yes votes.
Last time I was out was Sunday and I won't be out again until Thursday at the earliest. Sometimes having to earn a living is a blasted nuisance.
We were out in Menzieshill on Sunday and the results were better than of late, pretty much 50:50. BT are throwing more resources at Dundee on the basis that it is Yes central. I think the plan is not so much to win but to narrow the gap there.
I would certainly agree with Paddy Power. Let's put it this way: if Yes do as well anywhere else as they are doing in Dundee we will be in recount territory.
Any canvassing reports tonight DavidL. Paddy Power makes Dundee the favourite to get the biggest % of yes votes.
Last time I was out was Sunday and I won't be out again until Thursday at the earliest. Sometimes having to earn a living is a blasted nuisance.
We were out in Menzieshill on Sunday and the results were better than of late, pretty much 50:50. BT are throwing more resources at Dundee on the basis that it is Yes central. I think the plan is not so much to win but to narrow the gap there.
I would certainly agree with Paddy Power. Let's put it this way: if Yes do as well anywhere else as they are doing in Dundee we will be in recount territory.
I wonder if today will be viewed as the 1987 General election moment in the Indyref campaign.
A week before election day, on what was to become known as "Wobbly Thursday", a rogue poll for The Daily Telegraph showed the Tory lead down to 4%. A concerned Mrs Thatcher handed the management of the campaign over to advertising guru Tim Bell. In a blanket newspaper advertising campaign, Bell spent £2 million in a single week. The Tory message was simple: "Britain is great again. Don't let Labour wreck it".
Any canvassing reports tonight DavidL. Paddy Power makes Dundee the favourite to get the biggest % of yes votes.
Last time I was out was Sunday and I won't be out again until Thursday at the earliest. Sometimes having to earn a living is a blasted nuisance.
We were out in Menzieshill on Sunday and the results were better than of late, pretty much 50:50. BT are throwing more resources at Dundee on the basis that it is Yes central. I think the plan is not so much to win but to narrow the gap there.
I would certainly agree with Paddy Power. Let's put it this way: if Yes do as well anywhere else as they are doing in Dundee we will be in recount territory.
A recount would be a disaster. There's bound to be a few dodgy ballot boxes here and there, leading to perhaps legal action....
What's your take on the consequences of a Yes for the political dynamics, particularly for Labour obviously, in the UK?
I think it would introduce serious volatility, and it would completely dominate the Labour and Tory conferences. On the whole I'd think the Tories would benefit even disregarding the seat loss - I don't believe Cameron would step down, and he'd have a week to prepare a suitably statesmanlike response, whereas Miliband would have precisely one day. "It's NOT time for a(nother) change" might resonate in the middle of national upheaval.
Conversely I think a No vote would destabilise the SNP - "what do we do now?" - with possible benefits for all the other parties, especially Labour.
But to be fair I hope the Scots will decide on the basis of what's best for them, rather than these tactical issues.
Any canvassing reports tonight DavidL. Paddy Power makes Dundee the favourite to get the biggest % of yes votes.
Last time I was out was Sunday and I won't be out again until Thursday at the earliest. Sometimes having to earn a living is a blasted nuisance.
We were out in Menzieshill on Sunday and the results were better than of late, pretty much 50:50. BT are throwing more resources at Dundee on the basis that it is Yes central. I think the plan is not so much to win but to narrow the gap there.
I would certainly agree with Paddy Power. Let's put it this way: if Yes do as well anywhere else as they are doing in Dundee we will be in recount territory.
A recount would be a disaster. There's bound to be a few dodgy ballot boxes here and there, leading to perhaps legal action....
A referendum every 5 years until one side or the other wins by 10% else there will be agg
Start of August, No had a 34% lead amongst women, now it just 16%
Start of August, Lab voters were breaking 82% for No and 18% for Yes, now it is 70%/30%
They obviously want to save their NHS.
On the NHS row, sparked by Mr Salmond during his first TV debate with No boss Alistair Darling on August 5, 42% now think hospitals and GP surgeries in Scotland will get worse if it remains part of the UK.
Just 9% believe the NHS will get better.
By contrast, 37% think the NHS will improve under independence and 29% say it will get worse.
Daniel Hannan @DanHannanMEP · 7m Bullying police, an authoritarian NHS, a supine PCC, the European Arrest Warrant. The Ashya case tells us everything about UK officialdom
Exactly the 'perfect storm' of all that is wrong with the UK, crying shame that these decent people and a dying boy have to suffer.
Parents flee doctors with sick child to unknown destination minus his medical treatment? And his medical records. There is somethjing wrong all right. Something wrong with you.
That is in direct contradiction to what was said by the two medical ethics professionals on Newsnight who said it was clear that the parents had been prepared for his medical needs, that the Spanish hospital were satisfied with his state and so had put him on a low dependency ward and that the only cruelty was being inflicted by the authorities by keeping him separated from his family who apparently has been by his side continuously for the last month.
The longer this goes on the more this looks like vindictive and petty behaviour by the authorities.
Any canvassing reports tonight DavidL. Paddy Power makes Dundee the favourite to get the biggest % of yes votes.
Last time I was out was Sunday and I won't be out again until Thursday at the earliest. Sometimes having to earn a living is a blasted nuisance.
We were out in Menzieshill on Sunday and the results were better than of late, pretty much 50:50. BT are throwing more resources at Dundee on the basis that it is Yes central. I think the plan is not so much to win but to narrow the gap there.
I would certainly agree with Paddy Power. Let's put it this way: if Yes do as well anywhere else as they are doing in Dundee we will be in recount territory.
A recount would be a disaster. There's bound to be a few dodgy ballot boxes here and there, leading to perhaps legal action....
Legal action seems inevitable if Scotland votes yes and Scots don't get the following
Any canvassing reports tonight DavidL. Paddy Power makes Dundee the favourite to get the biggest % of yes votes.
Last time I was out was Sunday and I won't be out again until Thursday at the earliest. Sometimes having to earn a living is a blasted nuisance.
We were out in Menzieshill on Sunday and the results were better than of late, pretty much 50:50. BT are throwing more resources at Dundee on the basis that it is Yes central. I think the plan is not so much to win but to narrow the gap there.
I would certainly agree with Paddy Power. Let's put it this way: if Yes do as well anywhere else as they are doing in Dundee we will be in recount territory.
A recount would be a disaster. There's bound to be a few dodgy ballot boxes here and there, leading to perhaps legal action....
Legal action seems inevitable if Scotland votes yes and Scots don't get the following
"Compare the number of parents put in custody for doing the best for their dying child this year vs the amount of parents charged for allowing FGM in the last twenty"
You raise an interesting comparison. Obviously parents who subject their daughters to FGM are doing what they believe is in the best interest of their child but as many parents have discovered what they believe to be in the best interests of the child isn't the final word.
It would be an interesting comparison were it not for the fact that for the past 30 years FGM has been a criminal offence in this country whereas being in dispute with your doctor about the best treatment for your child has not been.
It would be a very odd parent indeed to think that committing a criminal act on your child is acting in that child's best interests.
Roger cannot conceive of any circumstance where the Nanny State does not know best. All his warped views of the world are fed by that one principle.
Daniel Hannan @DanHannanMEP · 7m Bullying police, an authoritarian NHS, a supine PCC, the European Arrest Warrant. The Ashya case tells us everything about UK officialdom
Exactly the 'perfect storm' of all that is wrong with the UK, crying shame that these decent people and a dying boy have to suffer.
Parents flee doctors with sick child to unknown destination minus his medical treatment? And his medical records. There is somethjing wrong all right. Something wrong with you.
That is in direct contradiction to what was said by the two medical ethics professionals on Newsnight who said it was clear that the parents had been prepared for his medical needs, that the Spanish hospital were satisfied with his state and so had put him on a low dependency ward and that the only cruelty was being inflicted by the authorities by keeping him separated from his family who apparently has been by his side continuously for the last month.
The longer this goes on the more this looks like vindictive and petty behaviour by the authorities.
Any canvassing reports tonight DavidL. Paddy Power makes Dundee the favourite to get the biggest % of yes votes.
Last time I was out was Sunday and I won't be out again until Thursday at the earliest. Sometimes having to earn a living is a blasted nuisance.
We were out in Menzieshill on Sunday and the results were better than of late, pretty much 50:50. BT are throwing more resources at Dundee on the basis that it is Yes central. I think the plan is not so much to win but to narrow the gap there.
I would certainly agree with Paddy Power. Let's put it this way: if Yes do as well anywhere else as they are doing in Dundee we will be in recount territory.
A recount would be a disaster. There's bound to be a few dodgy ballot boxes here and there, leading to perhaps legal action....
Legal action seems inevitable if Scotland votes yes and Scots don't get the following
1) A currency union
2) Automatic membership of the EU.
Unsuccessful legal action!
Probably, but just imagine the fun, if it was determined that a second referendum was needed, now that everyone knows that Independence won't lead to a currency union or automaticity re IScotland's EU membership.
What's your take on the consequences of a Yes for the political dynamics, particularly for Labour obviously, in the UK?
I think it would introduce serious volatility, and it would completely dominate the Labour and Tory conferences. On the whole I'd think the Tories would benefit even disregarding the seat loss - I don't believe Cameron would step down, and he'd have a week to prepare a suitably statesmanlike response, whereas Miliband would have precisely one day. "It's NOT time for a(nother) change" might resonate in the middle of national upheaval.
Conversely I think a No vote would destabilise the SNP - "what do we do now?" - with possible benefits for all the other parties, especially Labour.
But to be fair I hope the Scots will decide on the basis of what's best for them, rather than these tactical issues.
That sounds about right.
I'm attracted to SeanT's argument that David Cameron would step down - pride, precedence, a stern look from the Queen etc.
But I feel practicalities would win out in the end, and he would stay as PM.
"It would be a very odd parent indeed to think that committing a criminal act on your child is acting in that child's best interests."
There are many in the world and in the country who believe that there is a higher law than that of this country. It would be an interesting test if they decided to proscribe male genital mutilation
"Compare the number of parents put in custody for doing the best for their dying child this year vs the amount of parents charged for allowing FGM in the last twenty"
You raise an interesting comparison. Obviously parents who subject their daughters to FGM are doing what they believe is in the best interest of their child but as many parents have discovered what they believe to be in the best interests of the child isn't the final word.
It would be an interesting comparison were it not for the fact that for the past 30 years FGM has been a criminal offence in this country whereas being in dispute with your doctor about the best treatment for your child has not been.
It would be a very odd parent indeed to think that committing a criminal act on your child is acting in that child's best interests.
Roger cannot conceive of any circumstance where the Nanny State does not know best. All his warped views of the world are fed by that one principle.
He is playing logical twister depending on who said what
Daniel Hannan @DanHannanMEP · 7m Bullying police, an authoritarian NHS, a supine PCC, the European Arrest Warrant. The Ashya case tells us everything about UK officialdom
Exactly the 'perfect storm' of all that is wrong with the UK, crying shame that these decent people and a dying boy have to suffer.
Parents flee doctors with sick child to unknown destination minus his medical treatment? And his medical records. There is somethjing wrong all right. Something wrong with you.
That is in direct contradiction to what was said by the two medical ethics professionals on Newsnight who said it was clear that the parents had been prepared for his medical needs, that the Spanish hospital were satisfied with his state and so had put him on a low dependency ward and that the only cruelty was being inflicted by the authorities by keeping him separated from his family who apparently has been by his side continuously for the last month.
The longer this goes on the more this looks like vindictive and petty behaviour by the authorities.
Big Bad State
Clearly the best outcome according to the State is for loving parents to be criminalised, and the boy be returned to the gaping maw of the NHS to die, alone, while they sit on their hands and refuse treatment. NHS, utter filth. Tear it down, now.
"Compare the number of parents put in custody for doing the best for their dying child this year vs the amount of parents charged for allowing FGM in the last twenty"
You raise an interesting comparison. Obviously parents who subject their daughters to FGM are doing what they believe is in the best interest of their child but as many parents have discovered what they believe to be in the best interests of the child isn't the final word.
It would be an interesting comparison were it not for the fact that for the past 30 years FGM has been a criminal offence in this country whereas being in dispute with your doctor about the best treatment for your child has not been.
It would be a very odd parent indeed to think that committing a criminal act on your child is acting in that child's best interests.
Roger cannot conceive of any circumstance where the Nanny State does not know best. All his warped views of the world are fed by that one principle.
Nanny knows best, that's why he spends as much time as possible away from her sphere of influence, quaffing champers.
One of the myriad of problems that independence would give Scotland is that it would not have an automatic right to all of the double taxation agreements that the UK has with countries around the world.
PLCs are taxed on their worldwide earnings under deduction of tax that they are obliged to pay for their activities in foreign countries. The risk of not having the benefit of such treaties is very likely to make every Scottish plc want to register in England before the independence date. Similarly, without such deals Scotland will be a very unattractive place to invest.
Trying to break up a modern, international, integrated economy like this is nothing short of madness. The fact it is clearly attractive to nearly half the electorate is deeply troubling and suggests a dangerous degree of alienation from the UK regardless of the outcome.
Well, the Dyedwoolie monitor is moving for the first time to favour yes by a percentage point. No have had it, as has the Union of 1707. Plan for the new order, and let's make it a good one.
TSE Hopefully, personally I would bring Brown out and get him on the campaign trail, after all he actually increased Labour's vote in 2010 and is popular there.
OT. Southampton hospital coming out of the Newsnight discussion very badly this evening. Claims that they knew the battery was not going to run down as was claimed, also that they knew the parents were not happy with the treatment and wanted to try the alternative. A complete breakdown in the hospital/parent relationship and claims of spite and misinformation given by the hospital after the by was taken.
The expert on medical ethics saying it is ridiculous that the parents are being charged with Child Cruelty and the only cruelty is the boy being kept away from his parents in Spain.
Not good at all.
I cant believe people are sticking up for the state
Watching the parents being pushed into a police car almost in tears "We just want the best for Ashya"... heartbreaking
Not sticking up for the state. Sticking up for the professional obligation to consider the best interests of the child, and for this opinion on the best interests of the child to be put to an independent assessment by the legal system. Big difference.
OT. Southampton hospital coming out of the Newsnight discussion very badly this evening. Claims that they knew the battery was not going to run down as was claimed, also that they knew the parents were not happy with the treatment and wanted to try the alternative. A complete breakdown in the hospital/parent relationship and claims of spite and misinformation given by the hospital after the by was taken.
The expert on medical ethics saying it is ridiculous that the parents are being charged with Child Cruelty and the only cruelty is the boy being kept away from his parents in Spain.
Not good at all.
I cant believe people are sticking up for the state
Watching the parents being pushed into a police car almost in tears "We just want the best for Ashya"... heartbreaking
Not sticking up for the state. Sticking up for the professional obligation to consider the best interests of the child, and for this opinion on the best interests of the child to be put to an independent assessment by the legal system. Big difference.
The best interests of the child are not to be away from his parents and left to die at the hands of the NHS butchers on the grounds of cost.
I am not confident enough of the facts in the King case but it does seem to me that any proceedings of any nature should have been dropped as soon as it was ascertained that the poor boy was receiving appropriate medical care in Spain.
I would fully accept that both the hospital and police had to act in the first instance but this does seem ridiculous.
But they never, ever back down. Politicians do, but the ruthless state treats public anger with utter contempt. That UKIP couple never got their foster kids back for example. To do so would have people actually believe that they could change things, and that would never do.
Compare the number of parents put in custody for doing the best for their dying child this year vs the amount of parents charged for allowing FGM in the last twenty
OT. Southampton hospital coming out of the Newsnight discussion very badly this evening. Claims that they knew the battery was not going to run down as was claimed, also that they knew the parents were not happy with the treatment and wanted to try the alternative. A complete breakdown in the hospital/parent relationship and claims of spite and misinformation given by the hospital after the by was taken.
The expert on medical ethics saying it is ridiculous that the parents are being charged with Child Cruelty and the only cruelty is the boy being kept away from his parents in Spain.
Not good at all.
I cant believe people are sticking up for the state
Watching the parents being pushed into a police car almost in tears "We just want the best for Ashya"... heartbreaking
Not sticking up for the state. Sticking up for the professional obligation to consider the best interests of the child, and for this opinion on the best interests of the child to be put to an independent assessment by the legal system. Big difference.
A position that is pretty much in tatters after this evening's comments on Newsnight. I am not sure the comments could have been any more scathing.
OT. Southampton hospital coming out of the Newsnight discussion very badly this evening. Claims that they knew the battery was not going to run down as was claimed, also that they knew the parents were not happy with the treatment and wanted to try the alternative. A complete breakdown in the hospital/parent relationship and claims of spite and misinformation given by the hospital after the by was taken.
The expert on medical ethics saying it is ridiculous that the parents are being charged with Child Cruelty and the only cruelty is the boy being kept away from his parents in Spain.
Not good at all.
I cant believe people are sticking up for the state
Watching the parents being pushed into a police car almost in tears "We just want the best for Ashya"... heartbreaking
Not sticking up for the state. Sticking up for the professional obligation to consider the best interests of the child, and for this opinion on the best interests of the child to be put to an independent assessment by the legal system. Big difference.
A position that is pretty much in tatters after this evening's comments on Newsnight. I am not sure the comments could have been any more scathing.
Sometimes following legal and ethical obligations is unpopular.
OT. Southampton hospital coming out of the Newsnight discussion very badly this evening. Claims that they knew the battery was not going to run down as was claimed, also that they knew the parents were not happy with the treatment and wanted to try the alternative. A complete breakdown in the hospital/parent relationship and claims of spite and misinformation given by the hospital after the by was taken.
The expert on medical ethics saying it is ridiculous that the parents are being charged with Child Cruelty and the only cruelty is the boy being kept away from his parents in Spain.
Not good at all.
I cant believe people are sticking up for the state
Watching the parents being pushed into a police car almost in tears "We just want the best for Ashya"... heartbreaking
Not sticking up for the state. Sticking up for the professional obligation to consider the best interests of the child, and for this opinion on the best interests of the child to be put to an independent assessment by the legal system. Big difference.
The best interests of the child are not to be away from his parents and left to die at the hands of the NHS butchers on the grounds of cost.
That is for a court of law to decide rather than a twittermob.
Do you guys not have any respect for the rule of law and other British Values?
OT. Southampton hospital coming out of the Newsnight discussion very badly this evening. Claims that they knew the battery was not going to run down as was claimed, also that they knew the parents were not happy with the treatment and wanted to try the alternative. A complete breakdown in the hospital/parent relationship and claims of spite and misinformation given by the hospital after the by was taken.
The expert on medical ethics saying it is ridiculous that the parents are being charged with Child Cruelty and the only cruelty is the boy being kept away from his parents in Spain.
Not good at all.
I cant believe people are sticking up for the state
Watching the parents being pushed into a police car almost in tears "We just want the best for Ashya"... heartbreaking
Not sticking up for the state. Sticking up for the professional obligation to consider the best interests of the child, and for this opinion on the best interests of the child to be put to an independent assessment by the legal system. Big difference.
A position that is pretty much in tatters after this evening's comments on Newsnight. I am not sure the comments could have been any more scathing.
Sometimes following legal and ethical obligations is unpopular.
I'm sure that will be of huge comfort once the system has done it's work and seen the boy buried without the outside shot his parents wanted to give him. At least the legalities and hand wringing will have been satisfied.
OT. Southampton hospital coming out of the Newsnight discussion very badly this evening. Claims that they knew the battery was not going to run down as was claimed, also that they knew the parents were not happy with the treatment and wanted to try the alternative. A complete breakdown in the hospital/parent relationship and claims of spite and misinformation given by the hospital after the by was taken.
The expert on medical ethics saying it is ridiculous that the parents are being charged with Child Cruelty and the only cruelty is the boy being kept away from his parents in Spain.
Not good at all.
I cant believe people are sticking up for the state
Watching the parents being pushed into a police car almost in tears "We just want the best for Ashya"... heartbreaking
Not sticking up for the state. Sticking up for the professional obligation to consider the best interests of the child, and for this opinion on the best interests of the child to be put to an independent assessment by the legal system. Big difference.
The best interests of the child are not to be away from his parents and left to die at the hands of the NHS butchers on the grounds of cost.
That is for a court of law to decide rather than a twittermob.
Do you guys not have any respect for the rule of law and other British Values?
Not particularly when the law is an ass. Not when British values are sacrificed at the probable expense of a child's life, no. We are not beholden to the State, we mold it in the way we would see it behave.
OT. Southampton hospital coming out of the Newsnight discussion very badly this evening. Claims that they knew the battery was not going to run down as was claimed, also that they knew the parents were not happy with the treatment and wanted to try the alternative. A complete breakdown in the hospital/parent relationship and claims of spite and misinformation given by the hospital after the by was taken.
The expert on medical ethics saying it is ridiculous that the parents are being charged with Child Cruelty and the only cruelty is the boy being kept away from his parents in Spain.
Not good at all.
I cant believe people are sticking up for the state
Watching the parents being pushed into a police car almost in tears "We just want the best for Ashya"... heartbreaking
Not sticking up for the state. Sticking up for the professional obligation to consider the best interests of the child, and for this opinion on the best interests of the child to be put to an independent assessment by the legal system. Big difference.
A position that is pretty much in tatters after this evening's comments on Newsnight. I am not sure the comments could have been any more scathing.
Sometimes following legal and ethical obligations is unpopular.
Did the hospital apply for guardianship ? If so I'm not sure the correct legal route has been followed.
I don't know if Cameron should resign on a "Yes" vote - no opinion either way really - but I don't think he *would* do unless he wanted to quit anyway and was thinking of using it as an excuse - which *might* tie in to the Gove vs May jockeying from before.
I don't know if Cameron should resign on a "Yes" vote - no opinion either way really - but I don't think he *would* do unless he wanted to quit anyway and was thinking of using it as an excuse - which *might* tie in to the Gove vs May jockeying from before.
Just a thought.
He couldn't get a majority vs Brown, it looks increasingly likely he can't versus the buttie boy, I don't think he will wait around to lose against Rolf Harris.
SeanT Labour still leads in England and Wales even without Scotland, under FPTP Ed Miliband can still be PM in rUK with UKIP splitting the Tory vote
How are Labour performing in Wales?
Their performance in the Euros there was solid.
Like on so many other things, the PBTories don't seem to realise that something they take as an undoubted truth (that the Welsh Labour administration is supposedly so incompetent) is not a view shared by voters.
Labour beating UKIP by 5,000 votes in Wales is an interesting definition of "solid".
OT. Southampton hospital coming out of the Newsnight discussion very badly this evening. Claims that they knew the battery was not going to run down as was claimed, also that they knew the parents were not happy with the treatment and wanted to try the alternative. A complete breakdown in the hospital/parent relationship and claims of spite and misinformation given by the hospital after the by was taken.
The expert on medical ethics saying it is ridiculous that the parents are being charged with Child Cruelty and the only cruelty is the boy being kept away from his parents in Spain.
Not good at all.
I cant believe people are sticking up for the state
Watching the parents being pushed into a police car almost in tears "We just want the best for Ashya"... heartbreaking
Not sticking up for the state. Sticking up for the professional obligation to consider the best interests of the child, and for this opinion on the best interests of the child to be put to an independent assessment by the legal system. Big difference.
A position that is pretty much in tatters after this evening's comments on Newsnight. I am not sure the comments could have been any more scathing.
Sometimes following legal and ethical obligations is unpopular.
Did the hospital apply for guardianship ? If so I'm not sure the correct legal route has been followed.
If so then they should return, and dispute it in court.
OT. Southampton hospital coming out of the Newsnight discussion very badly this evening. Claims that they knew the battery was not going to run down as was claimed, also that they knew the parents were not happy with the treatment and wanted to try the alternative. A complete breakdown in the hospital/parent relationship and claims of spite and misinformation given by the hospital after the by was taken.
The expert on medical ethics saying it is ridiculous that the parents are being charged with Child Cruelty and the only cruelty is the boy being kept away from his parents in Spain.
Not good at all.
I cant believe people are sticking up for the state
Watching the parents being pushed into a police car almost in tears "We just want the best for Ashya"... heartbreaking
Not sticking up for the state. Sticking up for the professional obligation to consider the best interests of the child, and for this opinion on the best interests of the child to be put to an independent assessment by the legal system. Big difference.
A position that is pretty much in tatters after this evening's comments on Newsnight. I am not sure the comments could have been any more scathing.
Sometimes following legal and ethical obligations is unpopular.
Did the hospital apply for guardianship ? If so I'm not sure the correct legal route has been followed.
If so then they should return, and dispute it in court.
What? The child is not the property of the State, or a ward, even.
And what ever happened to freedom movement within the EU?
And the State has been shown to be absolutely abysmal at safeguarding its wards last week, but that seems (somehow) to have escaped your notice.
Your faith in the State (or NHS) is thoroughly misplaced.
OT. Southampton hospital coming out of the Newsnight discussion very badly this evening. Claims that they knew the battery was not going to run down as was claimed, also that they knew the parents were not happy with the treatment and wanted to try the alternative. A complete breakdown in the hospital/parent relationship and claims of spite and misinformation given by the hospital after the by was taken.
The expert on medical ethics saying it is ridiculous that the parents are being charged with Child Cruelty and the only cruelty is the boy being kept away from his parents in Spain.
Not good at all.
I cant believe people are sticking up for the state
Watching the parents being pushed into a police car almost in tears "We just want the best for Ashya"... heartbreaking
Not sticking up for the state. Sticking up for the professional obligation to consider the best interests of the child, and for this opinion on the best interests of the child to be put to an independent assessment by the legal system. Big difference.
The best interests of the child are not to be away from his parents and left to die at the hands of the NHS butchers on the grounds of cost.
That is for a court of law to decide rather than a twittermob.
Do you guys not have any respect for the rule of law and other British Values?
Not particularly when the law is an ass. Not when British values are sacrificed at the probable expense of a child's life, no. We are not beholden to the State, we mold it in the way we would see it behave.
A doctors duty is to the child, not to the parents, though of course parents get a large say when deciding treatment options. In this case a decision between external beam photon (gamma ray) therapy and external beam proton therapy.
If there is dispute then the right place to settle it is in court where the evidence can have a fair hearing. These treatment decisions are not made by single power-mad individuals, but by multi-disciplinary teams.
OT. Southampton hospital coming out of the Newsnight discussion very badly this evening. Claims that they knew the battery was not going to run down as was claimed, also that they knew the parents were not happy with the treatment and wanted to try the alternative. A complete breakdown in the hospital/parent relationship and claims of spite and misinformation given by the hospital after the by was taken.
The expert on medical ethics saying it is ridiculous that the parents are being charged with Child Cruelty and the only cruelty is the boy being kept away from his parents in Spain.
Not good at all.
I cant believe people are sticking up for the state
Watching the parents being pushed into a police car almost in tears "We just want the best for Ashya"... heartbreaking
Not sticking up for the state. Sticking up for the professional obligation to consider the best interests of the child, and for this opinion on the best interests of the child to be put to an independent assessment by the legal system. Big difference.
A position that is pretty much in tatters after this evening's comments on Newsnight. I am not sure the comments could have been any more scathing.
Sometimes following legal and ethical obligations is unpopular.
Did the hospital apply for guardianship ? If so I'm not sure the correct legal route has been followed.
If so then they should return, and dispute it in court.
What? The child is not the property of the State, or a ward, even.
And what ever happened to freedom movement within the EU?
And the State has been shown to be absolutely abysmal at safeguarding its wards last week, but that seems (somehow) to have escaped your notice.
Your faith in the State (or NHS) is thoroughly misplaced.
Neither is the child the property of the parents and guardians to treat as they please.
Freedom of movement within the EU does not enter into the matter, as the alarm went up before the child was known to be out of the country.
By all means campaign for child protection law to be changed, but the professionals have no choice but to follow the law as laid out at present.
I value the rule of law, it is what separates us from the barbarians. It is all a bit old fashioned of me, I appreciate.
Trying to break up a modern, international, integrated economy like this is nothing short of madness. The fact it is clearly attractive to nearly half the electorate is deeply troubling and suggests a dangerous degree of alienation from the UK regardless of the outcome.
Quite. But not just "the UK".....
Curtice:
......the Yes side appear to have made particular progress amongst the less well-off C2DE social groups, at whom much of its campaigning has been targeted in recent weeks. Support for independence amongst such voters is up nine points on a month ago (after Don’t Knows are excluded) whereas amongst more affluent ABC1 voters the swing has been a more modest six points. Doubtless this helps explains why support for Yes amongst those who voted Labour in 2011 has increased over the same period from 18% to 30%
SeanT Labour still leads in England and Wales even without Scotland, under FPTP Ed Miliband can still be PM in rUK with UKIP splitting the Tory vote
How are Labour performing in Wales?
Their performance in the Euros there was solid.
Like on so many other things, the PBTories don't seem to realise that something they take as an undoubted truth (that the Welsh Labour administration is supposedly so incompetent) is not a view shared by voters.
Labour beating UKIP by 5,000 votes in Wales is an interesting definition of "solid".
Well, in the context of Labour's (rather mediocre) performance in the UK as a whole, it was solid. But it wasn't the kind of meltdown you'd expect after all the claims from PBTories about how much of a disaster the Welsh government is.
DavidL Chaos will ensue if Yes, polls show English and Welsh voters will not agree to currency union, and Farage will take just that line to stiffen Cameron and Osborne's resolve if necessary, God knows what the markets will do
DavidL Chaos will ensue if Yes, polls show English and Welsh voters will not agree to currency union, and Farage will take just that line to stiffen Cameron and Osborne's resolve if necessary, God knows what the markets will do
Polls don't and can't show what English voters will agree to after a hypthetical yes win. What they show is that they think currency union is a bad idea at the moment. I don't think anyone's polled how strongly they feel about it, and if they don't feel strongly about it their opinion is irrelevant because it'll be decided by politicians.
A prediction of the Scottish independence referendum by council area I did back in April. I've decided not to modify it so far, although there are one or two council area forecasts which look slightly dodgy, such as Highland which I think might be a bit more pro-Yes than I currently have:
OT. Southampton hospital coming out of the Newsnight discussion very badly this evening. Claims that they knew the battery was not going to run down as was claimed, also that they knew the parents were not happy with the treatment and wanted to try the alternative. A complete breakdown in the hospital/parent relationship and claims of spite and misinformation given by the hospital after the by was taken.
The expert on medical ethics saying it is ridiculous that the parents are being charged with Child Cruelty and the only cruelty is the boy being kept away from his parents in Spain.
Not good at all.
I cant believe people are sticking up for the state
Watching the parents being pushed into a police car almost in tears "We just want the best for Ashya"... heartbreaking
Not sticking up for the state. Sticking up for the professional obligation to consider the best interests of the child, and for this opinion on the best interests of the child to be put to an independent assessment by the legal system. Big difference.
A position that is pretty much in tatters after this evening's comments on Newsnight. I am not sure the comments could have been any more scathing.
Sometimes following legal and ethical obligations is unpopular.
Did the hospital apply for guardianship ? If so I'm not sure the correct legal route has been followed.
If so then they should return, and dispute it in court.
What? The child is not the property of the State, or a ward, even.
And what ever happened to freedom movement within the EU?
And the State has been shown to be absolutely abysmal at safeguarding its wards last week, but that seems (somehow) to have escaped your notice.
Your faith in the State (or NHS) is thoroughly misplaced.
Neither is the child the property of the parents and guardians to treat as they please.
Freedom of movement within the EU does not enter into the matter, as the alarm went up before the child was known to be out of the country.
By all means campaign for child protection law to be changed, but the professionals have no choice but to follow the law as laid out at present.
I value the rule of law, it is what separates us from the barbarians. It is all a bit old fashioned of me, I appreciate.
Exactly what law have the Kings broken?
Also, you aren't fooling anyone with this "best interests of the child" nonsense, not when the NHS kills so many babies each year.
DavidL Chaos will ensue if Yes, polls show English and Welsh voters will not agree to currency union, and Farage will take just that line to stiffen Cameron and Osborne's resolve if necessary, God knows what the markets will do
Polls don't and can't show what English voters will agree to after a hypthetical yes win. What they show is that they think currency union is a bad idea at the moment. I don't think anyone's polled how strongly they feel about it, and if they don't feel strongly about it their opinion is irrelevant because it'll be decided by politicians.
They currently oppose it between two and three to one. Do you think that is going to go away?
DavidL Chaos will ensue if Yes, polls show English and Welsh voters will not agree to currency union, and Farage will take just that line to stiffen Cameron and Osborne's resolve if necessary, God knows what the markets will do
Polls don't and can't show what English voters will agree to after a hypthetical yes win. What they show is that they think currency union is a bad idea at the moment. I don't think anyone's polled how strongly they feel about it, and if they don't feel strongly about it their opinion is irrelevant because it'll be decided by politicians.
They currently oppose it between two and three to one. Do you think that is going to go away?
Quite possibly. Apart from a few wonks and obsessives, right now the question they'll be answering is, "If Scotland walk out, should England generousy give them stuff?" Post-referendum it becomes, "Do you want a prices of things to move around randomly when you buy and sell from Scotland?"
Either way, politicians only listen to voters if they care enough about things to swing their votes, which as far as I can tell hasn't been polled.
DavidL Chaos will ensue if Yes, polls show English and Welsh voters will not agree to currency union, and Farage will take just that line to stiffen Cameron and Osborne's resolve if necessary, God knows what the markets will do
Polls don't and can't show what English voters will agree to after a hypthetical yes win. What they show is that they think currency union is a bad idea at the moment. I don't think anyone's polled how strongly they feel about it, and if they don't feel strongly about it their opinion is irrelevant because it'll be decided by politicians.
They currently oppose it between two and three to one. Do you think that is going to go away?
Either way, politicians only listen to voters if they care enough about things to swing their votes, which as far as I can tell hasn't been polled.
The polling consistently shows opposition to a currency union in the event of Independence. It also shows rUK voters do not want the union ended, and a degree of resentment towards the Scots, what ever the outcome. Were the "currency union" question a random blip in an otherwise benign picture, your optimistic scenario might be tenable - but as it's part of a broader picture of mistrust and resentment, I suspect it is not.
Further, all three parties have invested major political capital in the issue - why risk the wrath of their soon to be sole electorate with a sudden u-turn? While rUK is a hugely important trading partner for Scotland, the reverse does not apply to anything like the same degree.
The Scots want a currency union - rUK does not. As the Scots are shortly to see, what rUK wants, in general, it will get.
Trying to break up a modern, international, integrated economy like this is nothing short of madness. The fact it is clearly attractive to nearly half the electorate is deeply troubling and suggests a dangerous degree of alienation from the UK regardless of the outcome.
Quite. But not just "the UK".....
Curtice:
......the Yes side appear to have made particular progress amongst the less well-off C2DE social groups, at whom much of its campaigning has been targeted in recent weeks. Support for independence amongst such voters is up nine points on a month ago (after Don’t Knows are excluded) whereas amongst more affluent ABC1 voters the swing has been a more modest six points. Doubtless this helps explains why support for Yes amongst those who voted Labour in 2011 has increased over the same period from 18% to 30%
I cant believe people are sticking up for the state
Watching the parents being pushed into a police car almost in tears "We just want the best for Ashya"... heartbreaking
Not sticking up for the state. Sticking up for the professional obligation to consider the best interests of the child, and for this opinion on the best interests of the child to be put to an independent assessment by the legal system. Big difference.
A position that is pretty much in tatters after this evening's comments on Newsnight. I am not sure the comments could have been any more scathing.
Sometimes following legal and ethical obligations is unpopular.
Did the hospital apply for guardianship ? If so I'm not sure the correct legal route has been followed.
If so then they should return, and dispute it in court.
What? The child is not the property of the State, or a ward, even.
And what ever happened to freedom movement within the EU?
And the State has been shown to be absolutely abysmal at safeguarding its wards last week, but that seems (somehow) to have escaped your notice.
Your faith in the State (or NHS) is thoroughly misplaced.
Neither is the child the property of the parents and guardians to treat as they please.
Freedom of movement within the EU does not enter into the matter, as the alarm went up before the child was known to be out of the country.
By all means campaign for child protection law to be changed, but the professionals have no choice but to follow the law as laid out at present.
I value the rule of law, it is what separates us from the barbarians. It is all a bit old fashioned of me, I appreciate.
Exactly what law have the Kings broken?
Also, you aren't fooling anyone with this "best interests of the child" nonsense, not when the NHS kills so many babies each year.
Quite legally, of course.
The best interests of the child, and the rights and responsibilities of parents and government agencies are all defined in the 1989 childrens act, sections 1 and 2.
The 1989 Childrens act was passed by a Tory majority, under the control of Mrs Thatcher, so not exactly a fruit of looney left wingers!
If Scotland goes, our union flag becomes irrelevant.
Wont anyone think of the flag?!
Actually I suspect we will keep the flag. We didn't change it when the Irish left, we won't change it now. We like it too much.
That's the St. Patrick's cross. There is still a decent sized chunk of Ireland in the UK, making it justifiable. It is also used occassionally now (unofficially) by itself to represent Northern Ireland.
Scotland will secede in its entirety. That will make all the "blue" in the flag completely redundant (indeed, to continue to use the flag in its current form would almost be to invite ridicule) as it won't mean anything any more.
We'll still use it, for a while of course. But it'll be a bit of joke.
But the blue on the Union Flag is a different shade from that used on the Saltire!
If Scotland goes, our union flag becomes irrelevant.
Wont anyone think of the flag?!
Actually I suspect we will keep the flag. We didn't change it when the Irish left, we won't change it now. We like it too much.
That's the St. Patrick's cross. There is still a decent sized chunk of Ireland in the UK, making it justifiable. It is also used occassionally now (unofficially) by itself to represent Northern Ireland.
Scotland will secede in its entirety. That will make all the "blue" in the flag completely redundant (indeed, to continue to use the flag in its current form would almost be to invite ridicule) as it won't mean anything any more.
We'll still use it, for a while of course. But it'll be a bit of joke.
But the blue on the Union Flag is a different shade from that used on the Saltire!
Pantone 280 as opposed to 300.
I didn't think there was an official color for the Saltire, just a recommendation?
If Scotland goes, our union flag becomes irrelevant.
Wont anyone think of the flag?!
Actually I suspect we will keep the flag. We didn't change it when the Irish left, we won't change it now. We like it too much.
That's the St. Patrick's cross. There is still a decent sized chunk of Ireland in the UK, making it justifiable. It is also used occassionally now (unofficially) by itself to represent Northern Ireland.
Scotland will secede in its entirety. That will make all the "blue" in the flag completely redundant (indeed, to continue to use the flag in its current form would almost be to invite ridicule) as it won't mean anything any more.
We'll still use it, for a while of course. But it'll be a bit of joke.
But the blue on the Union Flag is a different shade from that used on the Saltire!
Pantone 280 as opposed to 300.
I didn't think there was an official color for the Saltire, just a recommendation?
Trying to break up a modern, international, integrated economy like this is nothing short of madness. The fact it is clearly attractive to nearly half the electorate is deeply troubling and suggests a dangerous degree of alienation from the UK regardless of the outcome.
Quite. But not just "the UK".....
Curtice:
......the Yes side appear to have made particular progress amongst the less well-off C2DE social groups, at whom much of its campaigning has been targeted in recent weeks. Support for independence amongst such voters is up nine points on a month ago (after Don’t Knows are excluded) whereas amongst more affluent ABC1 voters the swing has been a more modest six points. Doubtless this helps explains why support for Yes amongst those who voted Labour in 2011 has increased over the same period from 18% to 30%
Mr Miliband...hellooo?
Vote NO, get ED!
Rather Ed and the Union than Cam and not. At least Ed is temporary, diviorce is not.
If Scotland goes, our union flag becomes irrelevant.
Wont anyone think of the flag?!
Actually I suspect we will keep the flag. We didn't change it when the Irish left, we won't change it now. We like it too much.
That's the St. Patrick's cross. There is still a decent sized chunk of Ireland in the UK, making it justifiable. It is also used occassionally now (unofficially) by itself to represent Northern Ireland.
Scotland will secede in its entirety. That will make all the "blue" in the flag completely redundant (indeed, to continue to use the flag in its current form would almost be to invite ridicule) as it won't mean anything any more.
We'll still use it, for a while of course. But it'll be a bit of joke.
But the blue on the Union Flag is a different shade from that used on the Saltire!
Pantone 280 as opposed to 300.
I didn't think there was an official color for the Saltire, just a recommendation?
DavidL Chaos will ensue if Yes, polls show English and Welsh voters will not agree to currency union, and Farage will take just that line to stiffen Cameron and Osborne's resolve if necessary, God knows what the markets will do
Polls don't and can't show what English voters will agree to after a hypthetical yes win. What they show is that they think currency union is a bad idea at the moment. I don't think anyone's polled how strongly they feel about it, and if they don't feel strongly about it their opinion is irrelevant because it'll be decided by politicians.
They currently oppose it between two and three to one. Do you think that is going to go away?
Either way, politicians only listen to voters if they care enough about things to swing their votes, which as far as I can tell hasn't been polled.
The polling consistently shows opposition to a currency union in the event of Independence. It also shows rUK voters do not want the union ended, and a degree of resentment towards the Scots, what ever the outcome. Were the "currency union" question a random blip in an otherwise benign picture, your optimistic scenario might be tenable - but as it's part of a broader picture of mistrust and resentment, I suspect it is not.
Further, all three parties have invested major political capital in the issue - why risk the wrath of their soon to be sole electorate with a sudden u-turn? While rUK is a hugely important trading partner for Scotland, the reverse does not apply to anything like the same degree.
The Scots want a currency union - rUK does not. As the Scots are shortly to see, what rUK wants, in general, it will get.
Politicians risk the wrath of the voters if they bollocks things up and make their lives more difficult than they need to be, as they would if they introduced confusion and currency volatility into a lot of existing trade relationships. Those concerns are likely to trump weakly-held voter opinion.
If Scotland goes, our union flag becomes irrelevant.
Wont anyone think of the flag?!
Actually I suspect we will keep the flag. We didn't change it when the Irish left, we won't change it now. We like it too much.
That's the St. Patrick's cross. There is still a decent sized chunk of Ireland in the UK, making it justifiable. It is also used occassionally now (unofficially) by itself to represent Northern Ireland.
Scotland will secede in its entirety. That will make all the "blue" in the flag completely redundant (indeed, to continue to use the flag in its current form would almost be to invite ridicule) as it won't mean anything any more.
We'll still use it, for a while of course. But it'll be a bit of joke.
But the blue on the Union Flag is a different shade from that used on the Saltire!
Pantone 280 as opposed to 300.
I didn't think there was an official color for the Saltire, just a recommendation?
Sunil means "blue", remember?
But what number Sunil, that is the question!
Um, there hasn't been an official recommendation, unlike the Saltire!
Trying to break up a modern, international, integrated economy like this is nothing short of madness. The fact it is clearly attractive to nearly half the electorate is deeply troubling and suggests a dangerous degree of alienation from the UK regardless of the outcome.
Quite. But not just "the UK".....
Curtice:
......the Yes side appear to have made particular progress amongst the less well-off C2DE social groups, at whom much of its campaigning has been targeted in recent weeks. Support for independence amongst such voters is up nine points on a month ago (after Don’t Knows are excluded) whereas amongst more affluent ABC1 voters the swing has been a more modest six points. Doubtless this helps explains why support for Yes amongst those who voted Labour in 2011 has increased over the same period from 18% to 30%
Mr Miliband...hellooo?
Vote NO, get ED!
Rather Ed and the Union than Cam and not. At least Ed is temporary, diviorce is not.
DavidL Chaos will ensue if Yes, polls show English and Welsh voters will not agree to currency union, and Farage will take just that line to stiffen Cameron and Osborne's resolve if necessary, God knows what the markets will do
Polls don't and can't show what English voters will agree to after a hypthetical yes win. What they show is that they think currency union is a bad idea at the moment. I don't think anyone's polled how strongly they feel about it, and if they don't feel strongly about it their opinion is irrelevant because it'll be decided by politicians.
They currently oppose it between two and three to one. Do you think that is going to go away?
Either way, politicians only listen to voters if they care enough about things to swing their votes, which as far as I can tell hasn't been polled.
The polling consistently shows opposition to a currency union in the event of Independence. It also shows rUK voters do not want the union ended, and a degree of resentment towards the Scots, what ever the outcome. Were the "currency union" question a random blip in an otherwise benign picture, your optimistic scenario might be tenable - but as it's part of a broader picture of mistrust and resentment, I suspect it is not.
Further, all three parties have invested major political capital in the issue - why risk the wrath of their soon to be sole electorate with a sudden u-turn? While rUK is a hugely important trading partner for Scotland, the reverse does not apply to anything like the same degree.
The Scots want a currency union - rUK does not. As the Scots are shortly to see, what rUK wants, in general, it will get.
confusion and currency volatility into a lot of existing trade relationships. Those concerns are likely to trump weakly-held voter opinion.
For which the Scots, warned in advance, would get any blame.
What percentage of the electorate in rUK would be thus affected? 0.5%? 0.1%?
On what evidence do you describe 3:1 opposition as "weakly held"?
If there was concern about cross border trade one might expect to see it in the areas closest to Scotland - but there is none - Northerners are as agin a currency union as southerners.
Trying to break up a modern, international, integrated economy like this is nothing short of madness. The fact it is clearly attractive to nearly half the electorate is deeply troubling and suggests a dangerous degree of alienation from the UK regardless of the outcome.
Quite. But not just "the UK".....
Curtice:
......the Yes side appear to have made particular progress amongst the less well-off C2DE social groups, at whom much of its campaigning has been targeted in recent weeks. Support for independence amongst such voters is up nine points on a month ago (after Don’t Knows are excluded) whereas amongst more affluent ABC1 voters the swing has been a more modest six points. Doubtless this helps explains why support for Yes amongst those who voted Labour in 2011 has increased over the same period from 18% to 30%
Mr Miliband...hellooo?
Vote NO, get ED!
Rather Ed and the Union than Cam and not. At least Ed is temporary, diviorce is not.
I love the befuddlement of our lefty friends at putting long term principle over short term disadvantage!
If Scotland goes, our union flag becomes irrelevant.
Wont anyone think of the flag?!
Actually I suspect we will keep the flag. We didn't change it when the Irish left, we won't change it now. We like it too much.
That's the St. Patrick's cross. There is still a decent sized chunk of Ireland in the UK, making it justifiable. It is also used occassionally now (unofficially) by itself to represent Northern Ireland.
Scotland will secede in its entirety. That will make all the "blue" in the flag completely redundant (indeed, to continue to use the flag in its current form would almost be to invite ridicule) as it won't mean anything any more.
We'll still use it, for a while of course. But it'll be a bit of joke.
But the blue on the Union Flag is a different shade from that used on the Saltire!
Pantone 280 as opposed to 300.
I didn't think there was an official color for the Saltire, just a recommendation?
The Union flag is not changing, whatever the Scots decide:
However, the College of Arms has told ITV News that there are no plans to change the Union Flag if Scotland becomes an independent state.
The authority for official flags for the UK and the Commonwealth said the Queen would remain the head of state in an independent Scotland, and therefore the Union Flag would not be affected.
Just as "Yes Scotland shop Burnt Down" (in truth, wheely bin set alight outside empty shop with Yes posters on it, no damage to shop or posters) "Better Together supporter in unprovoked attack on pregnant woman" has proved to not be quite the full story.
If Scotland goes, our union flag becomes irrelevant.
Wont anyone think of the flag?!
Actually I suspect we will keep the flag. We didn't change it when the Irish left, we won't change it now. We like it too much.
That's the St. Patrick's cross. There is still a decent sized chunk of Ireland in the UK, making it justifiable. It is also used occassionally now (unofficially) by itself to represent Northern Ireland.
Scotland will secede in its entirety. That will make all the "blue" in the flag completely redundant (indeed, to continue to use the flag in its current form would almost be to invite ridicule) as it won't mean anything any more.
We'll still use it, for a while of course. But it'll be a bit of joke.
But the blue on the Union Flag is a different shade from that used on the Saltire!
Pantone 280 as opposed to 300.
I didn't think there was an official color for the Saltire, just a recommendation?
The Union flag is not changing, whatever the Scots decide:
However, the College of Arms has told ITV News that there are no plans to change the Union Flag if Scotland becomes an independent state.
The authority for official flags for the UK and the Commonwealth said the Queen would remain the head of state in an independent Scotland, and therefore the Union Flag would not be affected.
Comments
It would be a very odd parent indeed to think that committing a criminal act on your child is acting in that child's best interests.
We were out in Menzieshill on Sunday and the results were better than of late, pretty much 50:50. BT are throwing more resources at Dundee on the basis that it is Yes central. I think the plan is not so much to win but to narrow the gap there.
I would certainly agree with Paddy Power. Let's put it this way: if Yes do as well anywhere else as they are doing in Dundee we will be in recount territory.
Start of August, No had a 34% lead amongst women, now it just 16%
Start of August, Lab voters were breaking 82% for No and 18% for Yes, now it is 70%/30%
A week before election day, on what was to become known as "Wobbly Thursday", a rogue poll for The Daily Telegraph showed the Tory lead down to 4%. A concerned Mrs Thatcher handed the management of the campaign over to advertising guru Tim Bell. In a blanket newspaper advertising campaign, Bell spent £2 million in a single week. The Tory message was simple: "Britain is great again. Don't let Labour wreck it".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/politics97/background/pastelec/ge87.shtml
I think it would introduce serious volatility, and it would completely dominate the Labour and Tory conferences. On the whole I'd think the Tories would benefit even disregarding the seat loss - I don't believe Cameron would step down, and he'd have a week to prepare a suitably statesmanlike response, whereas Miliband would have precisely one day. "It's NOT time for a(nother) change" might resonate in the middle of national upheaval.
Conversely I think a No vote would destabilise the SNP - "what do we do now?" - with possible benefits for all the other parties, especially Labour.
But to be fair I hope the Scots will decide on the basis of what's best for them, rather than these tactical issues.
Just 9% believe the NHS will get better.
By contrast, 37% think the NHS will improve under independence and 29% say it will get worse.
The longer this goes on the more this looks like vindictive and petty behaviour by the authorities.
1) A currency union
2) Automatic membership of the EU.
I'm attracted to SeanT's argument that David Cameron would step down - pride, precedence, a stern look from the Queen etc.
But I feel practicalities would win out in the end, and he would stay as PM.
"It would be a very odd parent indeed to think that committing a criminal act on your child is acting in that child's best interests."
There are many in the world and in the country who believe that there is a higher law than that of this country. It would be an interesting test if they decided to proscribe male genital mutilation
"But no one has been charged with FGM in 30 years... wonder why?"
Difficulty recruiting inspectors?
NHS, utter filth. Tear it down, now.
I'm not sure I'm entirely convinced, but polling is polling, and can't be ignored when the referendum is so close.
In the circumstances, it seems only prudent to invest a few quid in the Antifrank Gambit:
http://newstonoone.blogspot.hu/2014_08_01_archive.html
PLCs are taxed on their worldwide earnings under deduction of tax that they are obliged to pay for their activities in foreign countries. The risk of not having the benefit of such treaties is very likely to make every Scottish plc want to register in England before the independence date. Similarly, without such deals Scotland will be a very unattractive place to invest.
Trying to break up a modern, international, integrated economy like this is nothing short of madness. The fact it is clearly attractive to nearly half the electorate is deeply troubling and suggests a dangerous degree of alienation from the UK regardless of the outcome.
No have had it, as has the Union of 1707.
Plan for the new order, and let's make it a good one.
Monkeys Yes has also been full of scare stories
Big green for 16/1 Ukip backers
7/4 in Thurrock
These prices are crashing
He suggested something very similar to Gerard Battens Muslim charter.
Cameron said good idea but its best the muslims suggest it themselves
Paraphrasing obviously
@TSEofPB: Now that @YouGov Indyref polls are in line with @DamianSurvation, will we get another Kellner piece attacking @Survation ? *innocent face*
LAB 35
YouGov
LAB 35
35% strategy !
Do you guys not have any respect for the rule of law and other British Values?
We are not beholden to the State, we mold it in the way we would see it behave.
Just a thought.
UKIP + An Independence From Europe = 30% in England in the Euro elections.
And what ever happened to freedom movement within the EU?
And the State has been shown to be absolutely abysmal at safeguarding its wards last week, but that seems (somehow) to have escaped your notice.
Your faith in the State (or NHS) is thoroughly misplaced.
If there is dispute then the right place to settle it is in court where the evidence can have a fair hearing. These treatment decisions are not made by single power-mad individuals, but by multi-disciplinary teams.
Freedom of movement within the EU does not enter into the matter, as the alarm went up before the child was known to be out of the country.
By all means campaign for child protection law to be changed, but the professionals have no choice but to follow the law as laid out at present.
I value the rule of law, it is what separates us from the barbarians. It is all a bit old fashioned of me, I appreciate.
YouGov Report Dramatic Swing to Yes
http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2014/09/yougov-report-dramatic-swing-to-yes/
Curtice:
......the Yes side appear to have made particular progress amongst the less well-off C2DE social groups, at whom much of its campaigning has been targeted in recent weeks. Support for independence amongst such voters is up nine points on a month ago (after Don’t Knows are excluded) whereas amongst more affluent ABC1 voters the swing has been a more modest six points. Doubtless this helps explains why support for Yes amongst those who voted Labour in 2011 has increased over the same period from 18% to 30%
Mr Miliband...hellooo?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fBxvVgbyO_msx2eJxVbUlh6MubdD4-fZ-UIBFkwNIaI/edit#gid=0
Also, you aren't fooling anyone with this "best interests of the child" nonsense, not when the NHS kills so many babies each year.
Quite legally, of course.
Either way, politicians only listen to voters if they care enough about things to swing their votes, which as far as I can tell hasn't been polled.
Further, all three parties have invested major political capital in the issue - why risk the wrath of their soon to be sole electorate with a sudden u-turn? While rUK is a hugely important trading partner for Scotland, the reverse does not apply to anything like the same degree.
The Scots want a currency union - rUK does not. As the Scots are shortly to see, what rUK wants, in general, it will get.
The 1989 Childrens act was passed by a Tory majority, under the control of Mrs Thatcher, so not exactly a fruit of looney left wingers!
Pantone 280 as opposed to 300.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Scotland#Design
Luckily, I'm 100 miles away in Warwickshire LOL! G'night!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3ne7Udaetg
What percentage of the electorate in rUK would be thus affected? 0.5%? 0.1%?
On what evidence do you describe 3:1 opposition as "weakly held"?
If there was concern about cross border trade one might expect to see it in the areas closest to Scotland - but there is none - Northerners are as agin a currency union as southerners.
However, the College of Arms has told ITV News that there are no plans to change the Union Flag if Scotland becomes an independent state.
The authority for official flags for the UK and the Commonwealth said the Queen would remain the head of state in an independent Scotland, and therefore the Union Flag would not be affected.
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-11-26/no-plans-to-change-union-flag/
Watch the video and decide for yourself.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29020575
On Friday morning, it will be the turn of Alex Salmond
Yes won the coin toss and chose Friday.
(a) Former Labour MP Bob Wareing has died at the age of 84;
(b) No he hasn't; he's still alive.