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  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    Socrates said:

    Any reason why no one is talking about the biggest story of the last few days on here? Especially as it has an important political angle.

    Is it not allowed or something daft like that?

    It got banned last night after Roger started getting abusive over it.
    Really? One person starts getting abusive and the subject is banned and not the person?

    Let's hope there's no abuse over the general election next year then.

    On the Today programme this morning a councillor who had been one in Rotherham since 1999 said - to John Humphrey's evident astonishment - that he had no idea any of this was going on. He therefore claimed that he could not be held responsible and should not think of resigning.

    The fact that he knew nothing and therefore was probably totally useless as a councillor - I'd have thought an essential requirement would be that they have some idea of what happens in their patch and/or make an effort to find out - simply did not seem to occur to him.

    Quite apart from this case there does appear to have developed a culture amongst those in charge (and I include the private sector in this) of senior people simply being unable to accept that the sole reason they are senior and are paid more than others is not because they do more or are cleverer than anyone else but because they are in charge and are expected to take RESPONSIBILITY.

    (P.S. Sorry for the capitals but this is something that really bugs me. I am responsible for whistleblowing in my organisation so this whole area is something I've thought long and hard about over the years.)

    Memo to moderators: I hope this post is acceptable.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited August 2014
    Man has no shame...

    Denis MacShane @DenisMacShane
    Anyone interested in Rotherham child abuse might read p 156 of my Prison Diaries @BitebackPub

    BTW, why aren't we allowed to talk about Rotherham?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    Any reason why no one is talking about the biggest story of the last few days on here? Especially as it has an important political angle.

    Is it not allowed or something daft like that?

    They are too busy worrying about what currency Scotland will use and how we will cope with being flooded by oil

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I'm not convinced on turnout below 80%, I recently spent some time in Scotland, in the housing estate of the western central belt.

    People who have never been politically engaged in the slightest appear certain to vote, what stunned me was how strong the tide to "yes" was esp amongst the very poor.

    It was explained to me that the poorer you are, the less potency the scare stories have; they have nothing to lose and are willing to take a chance on change.

    Turnout is going to be massive, esp amongst the very poor

    The Tories on here do not want to hear sensible stuff like that. They know that we are all so stupid we will vote to continue getting subsidised and leading the high life chanting Better Together. They think it is paradise up here and they are paying for us to sup champagne and nibble caviar on the dole, whilst selecting holiday locations.
    The "Tories on here" have been saying for quite some time that it will be the traditional Labour vote, in particular in the poorer western parts of the central belt that decide this - and praying daily for SLAB to get its act together.

    But if you read anything anyone else wrote, instead of just reacting with bile and invective, you'd know that.
    Dear Dear, mrs gloom and doom pauses from posting blatant propaganda to berate me once again. Is that your Tory get out clause , "it was labour that lost it".
    It is cowardly Tories trying to get Labour to do their dirty work that has scuppered both of them. Tories are a busted flush but creepy enough to have taken Labour patsies to the cleaners. Throw in the Lib Dumbs and you have a full set of rogues.
    If you ever bothered to read the polls:

    Net "no" (excl DK)
    Con: +82
    Lab: +50

    There aren't many Tories left to persuade to vote no......
    There aren't many Tories
    2010 General Election number of voters:

    SNP: 491,386
    Con: 412,855
  • You are allowed to discuss the events in Rotherham.

    It was banned last night just for last night as passions and comments were getting out of hand and we wanted to take the heat out of it.

    You may discuss it today within reason

  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Cyclefree said:

    Socrates said:

    Any reason why no one is talking about the biggest story of the last few days on here? Especially as it has an important political angle.

    Is it not allowed or something daft like that?

    It got banned last night after Roger started getting abusive over it.
    Really? One person starts getting abusive and the subject is banned and not the person?

    Let's hope there's no abuse over the general election next year then.

    On the Today programme this morning a councillor who had been one in Rotherham since 1999 said - to John Humphrey's evident astonishment - that he had no idea any of this was going on. He therefore claimed that he could not be held responsible and should not think of resigning.

    The fact that he knew nothing and therefore was probably totally useless as a councillor - I'd have thought an essential requirement would be that they have some idea of what happens in their patch and/or make an effort to find out - simply did not seem to occur to him.

    Quite apart from this case there does appear to have developed a culture amongst those in charge (and I include the private sector in this) of senior people simply being unable to accept that the sole reason they are senior and are paid more than others is not because they do more or are cleverer than anyone else but because they are in charge and are expected to take RESPONSIBILITY.

    (P.S. Sorry for the capitals but this is something that really bugs me. I am responsible for whistleblowing in my organisation so this whole area is something I've thought long and hard about over the years.)

    Memo to moderators: I hope this post is acceptable.

    Totally agree, personal responsibility is something that seems to have disappeared over the last 30 years or so. I do not know if it is because the lawyers insist on denial of responsibility for fear or legal action.

    But it is very noticeable that when anything goes wrong, the 'official' for that business/service/public sector briefly apologises/says we have improved matters/ things went wrong which were not our fault or were unexpected etc - anything to deny liability.

    Things go wrong every day, and if the PR person (and politicians) just said sorry - we got it wrong - and left it at that, then that organisation would have much more respect.

    However, it seems that all these words are just platitudes as the same errors/mistakes keep repeating themselves however much the PR person says we shall learn from our mistakes!
  • malcolmg said:

    John_N said:

    Implied probability of a YES win at Betfair is back up to 15%, probably as a result of the reporting of the debate, not just what viewers who watched the debate thought of it.

    You may be wrong about turnout. Much of the country is plastered with referendum and poster stickers, mainly YES ones. In many towns, they are giving the high streets a feel usually associated with a festival or happy community event of some kind.

    Turnout at the 2010 UK GE in Scotland was 63.8% and at the 2011 Scottish GE, 50%, but be wary of comparing apples with oranges. The SNP got 19% in the 2010 UK GE and 53.5% in the 2011 Sc GE. Why? For the same reason UKIP does well in EU elections and by-elections: because people are sending central government and big-party politicians a message, and because the people who are doing so are a larger proportion of voters because turnout is low.

    The referendum is seen by most people as serious, and there is no doubt that turnout will be much higher than 63.8%. The higher the turnout, the worse for the SNP. Their support is mostly pretty solid, but all sorts of people - some who are in their 40s and 50s and have never voted before - are going to make sure they get to the polling booths to vote NO. A large proportion of people have had enough of Alec Salmond, the SNP, and the SNP nonsense that "this isn't about the SNP". The referendum is considerably more in people's faces and being talked about by much of the population than a GE of either kind.

    YES are working like nutters to get their vote out and their propaganda is everywhere. NO will also get a large vote. Many YES voters will be saying eff off to the UK government, or "Westminster" as they call it up here, often a euphemism for "the English". Many NO voters will be saying eff off to the Scottish government under Alec Salmond. Think of him as a mayor. He's disliked a lot by many. People don't want him running off with more than he's got already.

    As a result, the turnout will be very high. It could easily be over 80%. This is especially so if the perceived chances of a YES victory rise a bit and Salmond can strut about talking about momentum.

    Dear Dear, sad little NO person tries to play its just because we don't like teh English mince. You are getting ever more desperate and trying to make it all about Alex S rather than Scotland. Get off your belly and stop being a slug.
    What a nasty worm you are
    He and I are both going to be bitterly disappointed on September 19th.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "Quite apart from this case there does appear to have developed a culture amongst those in charge (and I include the private sector in this) of senior people simply being unable to accept that the sole reason they are senior and are paid more than others is not because they do more or are cleverer than anyone else but because they are in charge and are expected to take RESPONSIBILITY."

    Huzzah! Well said, Mrs. Free. As a young man I was taught you can delegate authority but never responsibility. Too many in senior posts don't seem have come to the understanding of what responsibility means to start with.

    P.S. Hope the throat is better this morning. If not I suggest you repeat the medicine but increase the dose.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    I'm not sure if this is the sort of thing that we can talk about on here atm (Mods, please delete if necessary):

    The stereotypical belief that boys are less vulnerable to child sexual exploitation means they are receiving insufficient protection from frontline services, Barnardo's has claimed.
    The children's charity says new findings reveal up to a third of victims are male.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28935733
    An issue I've been mentioning on here from time to time. And one that makes yesterday's announcement by Labour of appointing a shadow minister for preventing violence against women and girls seem rather misandric.
    Do Labour care for boys, or is it just girls they want to protect?
    No they are really really worried about male partners telling females they are fat. Beyond parody in the list of priorities.
    It's the fact they blatantly ignore the fact that boys get abused, and men can suffer from domestic violence (both from male or female partners).

    Labour's new appointment reinforces the stereotype that only females are victims. I find that utterly horrendous.

    (And as a side issue: do we really need new laws to protect children, or are existing laws enough if they were to be applied correctly?)

    We don't need new laws. We need the ones we have enforced properly, without fear or favour, and an attitude amongst all the relevant authorities that such crimes should be taken seriously, no matter who the perpetrators or victims are, an attitude which appears to have been wholly missing in Rotherham.

    A moral compass and a sense of decency would also help. How people can do such stuff is beyond me. How people can turn a blind eye to the suffering of children even more so.

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited August 2014
    "Whiff of Scandal Lingers at Labour Town Halls." 8th Feb 1999.

    Local Government Chronicle summary from The Observer 1999, mentions Rotherham, Doncaster.

    The 1999 Rotherham 'scandal' linked to payments by councillors and officers for sex. Not a great advert for one party control of a council.
  • saddosaddo Posts: 534
    Is Rotherham and beyond a big black swan flying into Labour's air space? Rotherham will not be alone - at the very least the previous systematic child abuse cases all appeared as tips of icebergs, with the linking factor of Labour council's being in place for decades of 1 party rule.
    This is a party political issue as its the left & labour who activity push a politically correct agenda which has led to this national disgrace in the first place.

    I know nobody in public life, or associated with Common Purpose ever resigns these days, but there should by rights be Labour councilors across the north and midlands resigning today and withdrawing permanently from public life.
    Don't even start me on the police.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Fair play to Yasmin Alibhai-Brown.

    Writing in the Independent, she says ...

    ""Within some British Asian circles, the West is considered degenerate and immoral. So it's OK to take their girls and ruin them further." She continues: "Yes, racists will have further ammunition after this report... I will always fight for the rights of minorities. But I will not defend the indefensible."

    Don't worry, though, there are plenty of others who will defend the indefensible.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    edited August 2014
    Financier said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Socrates said:

    Any reason why no one is talking about the biggest story of the last few days on here? Especially as it has an important political angle.



    On the Today programme this morning a councillor who had been one in Rotherham since 1999 said - to John Humphrey's evident astonishment - that he had no idea any of this was going on. He therefore claimed that he could not be held responsible and should not think of resigning.

    The fact that he knew nothing and therefore was probably totally useless as a councillor - I'd have thought an essential requirement would be that they have some idea of what happens in their patch and/or make an effort to find out - simply did not seem to occur to him.

    Quite apart from this case there does appear to have developed a culture amongst those in charge (and I include the private sector in this) of senior people simply being unable to accept that the sole reason they are senior and are paid more than others is not because they do more or are cleverer than anyone else but because they are in charge and are expected to take RESPONSIBILITY.

    (P.S. Sorry for the capitals but this is something that really bugs me. I am responsible for whistleblowing in my organisation so this whole area is something I've thought long and hard about over the years.)

    Memo to moderators: I hope this post is acceptable.

    Totally agree, personal responsibility is something that seems to have disappeared over the last 30 years or so. I do not know if it is because the lawyers insist on denial of responsibility for fear or legal action.

    But it is very noticeable that when anything goes wrong, the 'official' for that business/service/public sector briefly apologises/says we have improved matters/ things went wrong which were not our fault or were unexpected etc - anything to deny liability.

    Things go wrong every day, and if the PR person (and politicians) just said sorry - we got it wrong - and left it at that, then that organisation would have much more respect.

    However, it seems that all these words are just platitudes as the same errors/mistakes keep repeating themselves however much the PR person says we shall learn from our mistakes!
    If you want the rewards of leadership, you should expect to take the responsibilities as well.

    I agree that if someone has been a councillor in Rotherham for 15 years, and had no idea this was happening, he is unfit to be a councillor.

  • Socrates said:

    ‘I didn’t want to appear racist’ is truly the ‘I was only obeying orders’ of our time.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/08/i-didnt-want-to-appear-racist-is-the-i-was-only-obeying-orders-of-our-age/

    Indeed, Socrates.

    It is a paper thin excuse given by those who did not do what they bloody well know they should have done.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    saddo said:

    Is Rotherham and beyond a big black swan flying into Labour's air space? Rotherham will not be alone - at the very least the previous systematic child abuse cases all appeared as tips of icebergs, with the linking factor of Labour council's being in place for decades of 1 party rule.
    This is a party political issue as its the left & labour who activity push a politically correct agenda which has led to this national disgrace in the first place.

    I know nobody in public life, or associated with Common Purpose ever resigns these days, but there should by rights be Labour councilors across the north and midlands resigning today and withdrawing permanently from public life.
    Don't even start me on the police.

    Labour are losing their grip on the former South Yorkshire coalfield. This type of scandal can only accelerate the process.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,452
    saddo said:

    Is Rotherham and beyond a big black swan flying into Labour's air space? Rotherham will not be alone - at the very least the previous systematic child abuse cases all appeared as tips of icebergs, with the linking factor of Labour council's being in place for decades of 1 party rule.
    This is a party political issue as its the left & labour who activity push a politically correct agenda which has led to this national disgrace in the first place.

    I know nobody in public life, or associated with Common Purpose ever resigns these days, but there should by rights be Labour councilors across the north and midlands resigning today and withdrawing permanently from public life.
    Don't even start me on the police.

    Another case was in Oxford, where the county council responsible is Conservative-led.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-23079649
  • Moderators: Good decision, this needs to be discussed.

    If the authorities in Rotherham knew about this and willingly covered it up then I want to see criminal proceedings with proper jail terms doled out.

    Being paid a fortune to look after the interests of children whilst turning a blind eye to AT LEAST 1,400 getting abused is one of the most unbelievable failures I have ever heard. And that bloke who won't resign because he says he didn't know about it beggars belief.

    And don't get me started on the perpetrators, I'd be banned from the site forever and placed on about 100 different lists if I said what I really think.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    CD13 said:

    Fair play to Yasmin Alibhai-Brown.

    Writing in the Independent, she says ...

    ""Within some British Asian circles, the West is considered degenerate and immoral. So it's OK to take their girls and ruin them further." She continues: "Yes, racists will have further ammunition after this report... I will always fight for the rights of minorities. But I will not defend the indefensible."

    Don't worry, though, there are plenty of others who will defend the indefensible.

    She has said similar things before, about large numbers of Asian men considering white women whores because they show their shoulders. This is exactly what we need, for people of both left and right to face up to the fact that there is a subculture among many British Muslims with some very noxious views: the West is decadent, its women are whores, its gays are perverts. While only a very small share take such views to the extreme of joining a terrorist group or raping white kids, there is a much broader culture of intolerant views where such extremism can fester.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I'm not convinced on turnout below 80%, I recently spent some time in Scotland, in the housing estate of the western central belt.

    People who have never been politically engaged in the slightest appear certain to vote, what stunned me was how strong the tide to "yes" was esp amongst the very poor.

    It was explained to me that the poorer you are, the less potency the scare stories have; they have nothing to lose and are willing to take a chance on change.

    Turnout is going to be massive, esp amongst the very poor

    Jacks McARSE predicted over 80% (80.5% at last sight). Salmond may have been looking at that for his delectation.

    I would have thought that while Yes campaigners are more fervent, a high turnout may indicate that the less fervent are voting.

    There may also be a shy No phenomenon, with those who want the quiet life telling the malcolmg's who canvass them "Yes" to make them go away, but vote "No" in the privacy of the voting booth.

  • malcolmg said:

    Any reason why no one is talking about the biggest story of the last few days on here? Especially as it has an important political angle.

    Is it not allowed or something daft like that?

    They are too busy worrying about what currency Scotland will use and how we will cope with being flooded by oil

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I'm not convinced on turnout below 80%, I recently spent some time in Scotland, in the housing estate of the western central belt.

    People who have never been politically engaged in the slightest appear certain to vote, what stunned me was how strong the tide to "yes" was esp amongst the very poor.

    It was explained to me that the poorer you are, the less potency the scare stories have; they have nothing to lose and are willing to take a chance on change.

    Turnout is going to be massive, esp amongst the very poor

    The Tories on here do not want to hear sensible stuff like that. They know that we are all so stupid we will vote to continue getting subsidised and leading the high life chanting Better Together. They think it is paradise up here and they are paying for us to sup champagne and nibble caviar on the dole, whilst selecting holiday locations.
    The "Tories on here" have been saying for quite some time that it will be the traditional Labour vote, in particular in the poorer western parts of the central belt that decide this - and praying daily for SLAB to get its act together.

    But if you read anything anyone else wrote, instead of just reacting with bile and invective, you'd know that.
    Dear Dear, mrs gloom and doom pauses from posting blatant propaganda to berate me once again. Is that your Tory get out clause , "it was labour that lost it".
    It is cowardly Tories trying to get Labour to do their dirty work that has scuppered both of them. Tories are a busted flush but creepy enough to have taken Labour patsies to the cleaners. Throw in the Lib Dumbs and you have a full set of rogues.
    If you ever bothered to read the polls:

    Net "no" (excl DK)
    Con: +82
    Lab: +50

    There aren't many Tories left to persuade to vote no......
    There aren't many Tories
    2010 General Election number of voters:

    SNP: 491,386
    Con: 412,855
    2011 General Election number of voters:

    SNP: 902,915
    Con: 276,652
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    malcolmg said:

    Any reason why no one is talking about the biggest story of the last few days on here? Especially as it has an important political angle.

    Is it not allowed or something daft like that?

    They are too busy worrying about what currency Scotland will use and how we will cope with being flooded by oil

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I'm not convinced on turnout below 80%, I recently spent some time in Scotland, in the housing estate of the western central belt.

    People who have never been politically engaged in the slightest appear certain to vote, what stunned me was how strong the tide to "yes" was esp amongst the very poor.

    It was explained to me that the poorer you are, the less potency the scare stories have; they have nothing to lose and are willing to take a chance on change.

    Turnout is going to be massive, esp amongst the very poor

    The Tories on here do not want to hear sensible stuff like that. They know that we are all so stupid we will vote to continue getting subsidised and leading the high life chanting Better Together. They think it is paradise up here and they are paying for us to sup champagne and nibble caviar on the dole, whilst selecting holiday locations.
    The "Tories on here" have been saying for quite some time that it will be the traditional Labour vote, in particular in the poorer western parts of the central belt that decide this - and praying daily for SLAB to get its act together.

    But if you read anything anyone else wrote, instead of just reacting with bile and invective, you'd know that.
    Dear Dear, mrs gloom and doom pauses from posting blatant propaganda to berate me once again. Is that your Tory get out clause , "it was labour that lost it".
    It is cowardly Tories trying to get Labour to do their dirty work that has scuppered both of them. Tories are a busted flush but creepy enough to have taken Labour patsies to the cleaners. Throw in the Lib Dumbs and you have a full set of rogues.
    If you ever bothered to read the polls:

    Net "no" (excl DK)
    Con: +82
    Lab: +50

    There aren't many Tories left to persuade to vote no......
    There aren't many Tories
    2010 General Election number of voters:

    SNP: 491,386
    Con: 412,855
    Ha Ha Ha , what a surprise, How many MP's or MSP's for that matter and the few they have are due to list consolation prizes for the biggest losers.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    There was a heart-rending interview on Today R4 about 7.10 this morning with 'Emma' who was groomed from age 11-12, forcibly raped from 12-15, she went to the police who 'lost' her physical evidence and dismissed her. Her mother went to the Soc Services & Police and was brushed off.

    Emma's abusers threatened to rape her mother if she did not return to them and harassed their home and phone, and they had to move away to escape.

    Her description of the grooming showed how they gained all the information about the family and followed them wherever they went. Even followed the mother when she went shopping and knew her daily routine. This amount of detailed action, shows a strong gang organisation which must go way beyond the few who have been caught.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    1400 young girls over the timescale works out at 100 per year new cases. Rotherham is not such a big town that 100 girls being abused would not get noticed by schools, families, police and council services; or for that matter "community leaders". A very blind eye must have been turned.
  • It has emerged that no council employees would face disciplinary action, as the authority's chief executive, Martin Kimber, said there was not enough evidence to prosecute.

    This is despite the report's author, Professor Alexis Jay, concluding there had been "blatant" collective failures by the council's leadership.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28947707

    And there we have the problem...A respected academic compiles detailed report, stating the authorities knew of over 1/3 of the cases...but somehow not enough evidence for anybody to face disciplinary action. How can the authorities know of 100's of abuse cases and nobody did anything wrong...

    Baby P...only person who got in trouble, the whistle blower...

    etc etc etc
  • shadsyshadsy Posts: 289
    Mike's headline tip is now 4/5 from 10/11.

    Here's a short post about the betting on UKIP's reported top 12 target seats:
    http://politicalbookie.wordpress.com/2014/08/27/the-ukip-top-twelve-target-seats/
  • Being paid a fortune to look after the interests of children whilst turning a blind eye to AT LEAST 1,400 getting abused is one of the most unbelievable failures I have ever heard.

    Public service morphed into public sector rent seeking at the top under which public sector expanding entitlements mindset government of recent times? Hmm.....
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Cyclefree said:

    The fact that he knew nothing and therefore was probably totally useless as a councillor - I'd have thought an essential requirement would be that they have some idea of what happens in their patch and/or make an effort to find out - simply did not seem to occur to him.

    I don't disagree, but I think such people are far down the list.

    1. There have 1400 victims (a conservative estimate), 50 named perpetrators and likely many, many more unnamed ones. So why have we been only able to give out eight convictions (seven of them for the lesser charge of sex with a child) to just five people? First and foremost we much place the many truly evil men that have raped and tortured hundreds of children in maximum security prisons for a very long time. This must be the focus of our efforts.

    2. The second focus must be those "councillors of Pakistani origin" that allegedly tried to actively stifle and block the investigation into this abuse. These people must be brought to justice and hopefully tried in court. There were also implications in the report that people inside police stations were passing on abuse to the predators - this must be uncovered fully.

    3. Third must be the people in positions of responsibility that were brought information about the abuse and took it no further. They must be at least sacked from their jobs and banned from serving in government positions in future. A similar approach must be taken with those police officers that came across victims in positions of abuse, and either took no action, or arrested family members trying to protect the girls.

    We can then move on to the people being negligent about finding out the facts on their patch.
  • "This amount of detailed action, shows a strong gang organisation which must go way beyond the few who have been caught."

    And of even those prosecuted, some will be out soon.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    saddo said:

    Is Rotherham and beyond a big black swan flying into Labour's air space? Rotherham will not be alone - at the very least the previous systematic child abuse cases all appeared as tips of icebergs, with the linking factor of Labour council's being in place for decades of 1 party rule.
    This is a party political issue as its the left & labour who activity push a politically correct agenda which has led to this national disgrace in the first place.

    I know nobody in public life, or associated with Common Purpose ever resigns these days, but there should by rights be Labour councilors across the north and midlands resigning today and withdrawing permanently from public life.
    Don't even start me on the police.

    Another case was in Oxford, where the county council responsible is Conservative-led.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-23079649
    I doubt this is "party political" in any meaningful sense - if there had been populations of men such as these abusers in long-term Conservative controlled councils I doubt they would have been any better at sorting it out - there are important management cultural issues (don't rock the boat, "learn lessons and move on" and as discussed, "authority without responsibility") at root here, who ever is in charge.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    1400 young girls over the timescale works out at 100 per year new cases. Rotherham is not such a big town that 100 girls being abused would not get noticed by schools, families, police and council services; or for that matter "community leaders". A very blind eye must have been turned.

    And the Pakistani community there is just 8,000 people. 1400 victims sexually exploited in a community of 8,000. It beggars belief.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    edited August 2014

    I'm not convinced on turnout below 80%, I recently spent some time in Scotland, in the housing estate of the western central belt.

    People who have never been politically engaged in the slightest appear certain to vote, what stunned me was how strong the tide to "yes" was esp amongst the very poor.

    It was explained to me that the poorer you are, the less potency the scare stories have; they have nothing to lose and are willing to take a chance on change.

    Turnout is going to be massive, esp amongst the very poor

    Jacks McARSE predicted over 80% (80.5% at last sight). Salmond may have been looking at that for his delectation.

    I would have thought that while Yes campaigners are more fervent, a high turnout may indicate that the less fervent are voting.

    There may also be a shy No phenomenon, with those who want the quiet life telling the malcolmg's who canvass them "Yes" to make them go away, but vote "No" in the privacy of the voting booth.

    LOL, Jack is an ARSE for starters. I do not canvass anyone for seconds and unlike down south there are few shy ones in giving their opinions, you get both barrels from most people. Keep dreaming. What happens is they canvass posh areas and then say that the majority are NO, only RIC are going into the deprived areas and their canvassing is a completely different story.
    The bussed in Welsh and English students being paid to canvas for NO in Scotland are not in these areas.

    Not heard much of Jack's astroturfing from up in Edinburgh.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited August 2014

    saddo said:

    Is Rotherham and beyond a big black swan flying into Labour's air space? Rotherham will not be alone - at the very least the previous systematic child abuse cases all appeared as tips of icebergs, with the linking factor of Labour council's being in place for decades of 1 party rule.
    This is a party political issue as its the left & labour who activity push a politically correct agenda which has led to this national disgrace in the first place.

    I know nobody in public life, or associated with Common Purpose ever resigns these days, but there should by rights be Labour councilors across the north and midlands resigning today and withdrawing permanently from public life.
    Don't even start me on the police.

    Another case was in Oxford, where the county council responsible is Conservative-led.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-23079649
    Ridiculous to blame each others parties. Let's face it the Lab/Lib/Con party has let this happen by instituting, then following PC regimes in every walk of life. Then making MULTICULTURALISM into the new religion for the UK and making anyone who differs from these themes of life into heretics, pilloried in the MSM, especially, but not only, the leftist press and the BBC and channel 4 axis of TV.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    Socrates said:

    CD13 said:

    Fair play to Yasmin Alibhai-Brown.

    Writing in the Independent, she says ...

    ""Within some British Asian circles, the West is considered degenerate and immoral. So it's OK to take their girls and ruin them further." She continues: "Yes, racists will have further ammunition after this report... I will always fight for the rights of minorities. But I will not defend the indefensible."

    Don't worry, though, there are plenty of others who will defend the indefensible.

    She has said similar things before, about large numbers of Asian men considering white women whores because they show their shoulders. This is exactly what we need, for people of both left and right to face up to the fact that there is a subculture among many British Muslims with some very noxious views: the West is decadent, its women are whores, its gays are perverts. While only a very small share take such views to the extreme of joining a terrorist group or raping white kids, there is a much broader culture of intolerant views where such extremism can fester.
    There seems to be an attitude, both among the perpetrators of these crimes, and some people in authority, that girls from this background are virtually sub-human.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Any reason why no one is talking about the biggest story of the last few days on here? Especially as it has an important political angle.

    Is it not allowed or something daft like that?

    They are too busy worrying about what currency Scotland will use and how we will cope with being flooded by oil

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I'm not convinced on turnout below 80%, I recently spent some time in Scotland, in the housing estate of the western central belt.

    People who have never been politically engaged in the slightest appear certain to vote, what stunned me was how strong the tide to "yes" was esp amongst the very poor.

    It was explained to me that the poorer you are, the less potency the scare stories have; they have nothing to lose and are willing to take a chance on change.

    Turnout is going to be massive, esp amongst the very poor

    The Tories on here do not want to hear sensible stuff like that. They know that we are all so stupid we will vote to continue getting subsidised and leading the high life chanting Better Together. They think it is paradise up here and they are paying for us to sup champagne and nibble caviar on the dole, whilst selecting holiday locations.
    The "Tories on here" have been saying for quite some time that it will be the traditional Labour vote, in particular in the poorer western parts of the central belt that decide this - and praying daily for SLAB to get its act together.

    But if you read anything anyone else wrote, instead of just reacting with bile and invective, you'd know that.
    Dear Dear, mrs gloom and doom pauses from posting blatant propaganda to berate me once again. Is that your Tory get out clause , "it was labour that lost it".
    It is cowardly Tories trying to get Labour to do their dirty work that has scuppered both of them. Tories are a busted flush but creepy enough to have taken Labour patsies to the cleaners. Throw in the Lib Dumbs and you have a full set of rogues.
    If you ever bothered to read the polls:

    Net "no" (excl DK)
    Con: +82
    Lab: +50

    There aren't many Tories left to persuade to vote no......
    There aren't many Tories
    2010 General Election number of voters:

    SNP: 491,386
    Con: 412,855
    Ha Ha Ha , what a surprise, How many MP's or MSP's for that matter and the few they have are due to list consolation prizes for the biggest losers.
    You said there weren't many Tories - wrong again, as usual.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    "This amount of detailed action, shows a strong gang organisation which must go way beyond the few who have been caught."

    And of even those prosecuted, some will be out soon.

    I have got into trouble with the moderators on length of prison sentences before so we should be careful here. But I find it stunning that a man who got one conviction of rape and two of sex with a child only got nine years in prison (and possibly got let out before that time). I also find it stunning that despite endemic torture and rape, only one conviction beyond "sex with a child" has been made.

    We are still waiting for the government's reaction on this - it seems to be slow in coming - but surely a serious increase of prison terms is needed. Sex with a child when aggravated with violence surely deserves a minimum prison sentence of at least thirty or forty years.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    saddo said:

    Is Rotherham and beyond a big black swan flying into Labour's air space? Rotherham will not be alone - at the very least the previous systematic child abuse cases all appeared as tips of icebergs, with the linking factor of Labour council's being in place for decades of 1 party rule.
    This is a party political issue as its the left & labour who activity push a politically correct agenda which has led to this national disgrace in the first place.

    I know nobody in public life, or associated with Common Purpose ever resigns these days, but there should by rights be Labour councilors across the north and midlands resigning today and withdrawing permanently from public life.
    Don't even start me on the police.

    Another case was in Oxford, where the county council responsible is Conservative-led.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-23079649
    I doubt this is "party political" in any meaningful sense - if there had been populations of men such as these abusers in long-term Conservative controlled councils I doubt they would have been any better at sorting it out - there are important management cultural issues (don't rock the boat, "learn lessons and move on" and as discussed, "authority without responsibility") at root here, who ever is in charge.
    I don't think so either. This isn't a right/left issue. There are Conservatives who would prioritise "community relations" or who would fear being accused of racism.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Sean_F said:

    Socrates said:

    CD13 said:

    Fair play to Yasmin Alibhai-Brown.

    Writing in the Independent, she says ...

    ""Within some British Asian circles, the West is considered degenerate and immoral. So it's OK to take their girls and ruin them further." She continues: "Yes, racists will have further ammunition after this report... I will always fight for the rights of minorities. But I will not defend the indefensible."

    Don't worry, though, there are plenty of others who will defend the indefensible.

    She has said similar things before, about large numbers of Asian men considering white women whores because they show their shoulders. This is exactly what we need, for people of both left and right to face up to the fact that there is a subculture among many British Muslims with some very noxious views: the West is decadent, its women are whores, its gays are perverts. While only a very small share take such views to the extreme of joining a terrorist group or raping white kids, there is a much broader culture of intolerant views where such extremism can fester.
    There seems to be an attitude, both among the perpetrators of these crimes, and some people in authority, that girls from this background are virtually sub-human.

    I agree.

    However, let us not overlook another group of victims that has not been mentioned much on here: young Muslim girls. Apparently many were silenced when their predators manipulated fears about what it would do to their honour and marriage prospects if it came out. Again we see how reactionary and backwards views in the Muslim community can lead to awful situations. Girls that are raped should not be see as less worthy, and this attitude needs to be rooted out, "community cohesion" be damned.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    Surely it's a bit early for anyone in either Rotherham or SYP to say that no-one will be prosecuted or otherwise disciplined? Presumably at least SOME of these cases are bing looked at with a view to some sort of action being taken.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Socrates said:

    1400 young girls over the timescale works out at 100 per year new cases. Rotherham is not such a big town that 100 girls being abused would not get noticed by schools, families, police and council services; or for that matter "community leaders". A very blind eye must have been turned.

    And the Pakistani community there is just 8,000 people. 1400 victims sexually exploited in a community of 8,000. It beggars belief.
    Exactly. A community of 8000 that could not see the scale of abuse would either be in massive denial, or tacitly accepting of the abusive behaviour.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Wright man for the job...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28947707

    One PB lady contributor implies on Twitter he should go because of his past role at Child Services.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Sixty seconds on Hollande's pickle - the footage of him & Merkel is a hoot:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28942806?ocid=socialflow_twitter
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    1400 young girls over the timescale works out at 100 per year new cases. Rotherham is not such a big town that 100 girls being abused would not get noticed by schools, families, police and council services; or for that matter "community leaders". A very blind eye must have been turned.

    I saw a post on twitter doing a back of the fag packet calculation which extrapolated the average annual numbers of victims in Rotherham across the country. It was in the ballpark of the total numbers of reported cases.

    It effectively made the harrowing point that Rotherham may not be some outlier... it may just be the average.

    If so, that is frightening.

    As for the councillors, police and council management in Rotherham: one can only feel disgust and contempt. How dare they?

    Every council must redouble their efforts if they have similar cases on file: backward religion, associated culture and ethnicity are not and never were barriers to action. Start prosecuting these repugnant creeps. Do it now.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    When is the government going to respond to this? It's been 24 hours at this point. We can not allow this to be a scandal that is "contained" to one town. Bradford, Blackburn, Rochdale, Peterborough, Derby, Telford... it goes on and on. There are likely many more where it has not even reached the media.

    Mass sexual torture of children and mass cover-up by the authorities is one of the worst scandals for decades. Surely it needs a parliamentary inquiry?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited August 2014
    Sean_F said:

    Socrates said:

    CD13 said:

    Fair play to Yasmin Alibhai-Brown.

    Writing in the Independent, she says ...

    ""Within some British Asian circles, the West is considered degenerate and immoral. So it's OK to take their girls and ruin them further." She continues: "Yes, racists will have further ammunition after this report... I will always fight for the rights of minorities. But I will not defend the indefensible."

    Don't worry, though, there are plenty of others who will defend the indefensible.

    She has said similar things before, about large numbers of Asian men considering white women whores because they show their shoulders. This is exactly what we need, for people of both left and right to face up to the fact that there is a subculture among many British Muslims with some very noxious views: the West is decadent, its women are whores, its gays are perverts. While only a very small share take such views to the extreme of joining a terrorist group or raping white kids, there is a much broader culture of intolerant views where such extremism can fester.
    There seems to be an attitude, both among the perpetrators of these crimes, and some people in authority, that girls from this background are virtually sub-human.

    I wouldn't put my faith in anything Alibai-Brown says with regards to Islam and muslims. She has form in this and blows hot and cold. The fact is that Rotherham Council was controlled by muslims of the Labour party and have been caught out in a most horrifying way, so she couldn't say anything else this morning. Just wait a day or two and see what she says then.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/rod-liddle/2014/06/my-run-in-with-yasmin-alibhai-brown-and-channel-4-news/

    It's funny in a way but very illuminating.
  • "US President Barack Obama is "nearing a decision" to authorise strikes on Isil jihadists besieging the Turkmen town of Amerli, amid growing fears for the safety of thousands of residents short of food and water and facing a "massacre". "

    Is that before or after he has got another 18 holes in?
  • Patrick said:

    Being paid a fortune to look after the interests of children whilst turning a blind eye to AT LEAST 1,400 getting abused is one of the most unbelievable failures I have ever heard.

    Public service morphed into public sector rent seeking at the top under which public sector expanding entitlements mindset government of recent times? Hmm.....
    You're preaching to the converted here. This is result of all the years of fabled "investment" that Labour threw at the public sector.

    Of course when there is someone accused who is against their ideology they can't get involved quick enough, like with the UKIP fostering couple.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    I just wanted to say kudos to people on the left like Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, Southam and BenM who are fully confronting this issue and its deeper causes. Whatever we agree and disagree on, you're showing an admirable intellectual honesty on uncomfortable matters for the left.
  • Socrates said:

    1400 young girls over the timescale works out at 100 per year new cases. Rotherham is not such a big town that 100 girls being abused would not get noticed by schools, families, police and council services; or for that matter "community leaders". A very blind eye must have been turned.

    And the Pakistani community there is just 8,000 people. 1400 victims sexually exploited in a community of 8,000. It beggars belief.
    It's worse than that. Of the 8,000, only 4,000 would be male and at most 2,000 would be of an age likely to be involved in this (say aged 20 to 60). So on that basis you have at least 1,400 girls being abused by at most 2,000 men.

    The incidence of criminality among those 2,000 must be staggeringly high. For all we know it is typical rather than exceptional behaviour.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    "US President Barack Obama is "nearing a decision" to authorise strikes on Isil jihadists besieging the Turkmen town of Amerli, amid growing fears for the safety of thousands of residents short of food and water and facing a "massacre". "

    Is that before or after he has got another 18 holes in?

    One advantage of electing Hilary C as President is that she doesn't play golf. AFAIK, anyway.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MikeK said:

    saddo said:

    Is Rotherham and beyond a big black swan flying into Labour's air space? Rotherham will not be alone - at the very least the previous systematic child abuse cases all appeared as tips of icebergs, with the linking factor of Labour council's being in place for decades of 1 party rule.
    This is a party political issue as its the left & labour who activity push a politically correct agenda which has led to this national disgrace in the first place.

    I know nobody in public life, or associated with Common Purpose ever resigns these days, but there should by rights be Labour councilors across the north and midlands resigning today and withdrawing permanently from public life.
    Don't even start me on the police.

    Another case was in Oxford, where the county council responsible is Conservative-led.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-23079649
    Ridiculous to blame each others parties. Let's face it the Lab/Lib/Con party has let this happen by instituting, then following PC regimes in every walk of life. Then making MULTICULTURALISM into the new religion for the UK and making anyone who differs from these themes of life into heretics, pilloried in the MSM, especially, but not only, the leftist press and the BBC and channel 4 axis of TV.
    It is not Zimbabwean pentacostals, Gujerati Hindus, Polish Catholics or Roma that are behind all these incidents. It is not multiculturism that is the problem. Multiculturism requires mutual understandings and respect between cultures, the problem is that at least one sector of one community demands respect but does not respect any other culture.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    "US President Barack Obama is "nearing a decision" to authorise strikes on Isil jihadists besieging the Turkmen town of Amerli, amid growing fears for the safety of thousands of residents short of food and water and facing a "massacre". "

    Is that before or after he has got another 18 holes in?

    One advantage of electing Hilary C as President is that she doesn't play golf. AFAIK, anyway.
    You do realise that George W. Bush took far more vacations than Obama did?

    Not that it matters, Presidents don't take actual vacations: they're doing the job even if they're based in Martha's Vineyard.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    edited August 2014
    CD13 said:

    Fair play to Yasmin Alibhai-Brown.

    Writing in the Independent, she says ...

    ""Within some British Asian circles, the West is considered degenerate and immoral. So it's OK to take their girls and ruin them further." She continues: "Yes, racists will have further ammunition after this report... I will always fight for the rights of minorities. But I will not defend the indefensible."

    Don't worry, though, there are plenty of others who will defend the indefensible.

    I'm not sure it's automatically a bad thing to provide racists with further ammunition, if the racists are actually right. Even here, though, Yasmin can't help herself: the criticism of the perps in Rotherham is not that they were Pakistani. It's that they were racists.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Socrates said:

    When is the government going to respond to this? It's been 24 hours at this point. We can not allow this to be a scandal that is "contained" to one town. Bradford, Blackburn, Rochdale, Peterborough, Derby, Telford... it goes on and on. There are likely many more where it has not even reached the media.

    Mass sexual torture of children and mass cover-up by the authorities is one of the worst scandals for decades. Surely it needs a parliamentary inquiry?

    I completely agree. This is one area where a full Parliamentary enquiry plus appearance before the relevant committee (or at the bar before Parliament, could be of help. I'd also like it expanded to scrutinise the competency of all local councils in this area.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:

    saddo said:

    Is Rotherham and beyond a big black swan flying into Labour's air space? Rotherham will not be alone - at the very least the previous systematic child abuse cases all appeared as tips of icebergs, with the linking factor of Labour council's being in place for decades of 1 party rule.
    This is a party political issue as its the left & labour who activity push a politically correct agenda which has led to this national disgrace in the first place.

    I know nobody in public life, or associated with Common Purpose ever resigns these days, but there should by rights be Labour councilors across the north and midlands resigning today and withdrawing permanently from public life.
    Don't even start me on the police.

    Another case was in Oxford, where the county council responsible is Conservative-led.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-23079649
    Ridiculous to blame each others parties. Let's face it the Lab/Lib/Con party has let this happen by instituting, then following PC regimes in every walk of life. Then making MULTICULTURALISM into the new religion for the UK and making anyone who differs from these themes of life into heretics, pilloried in the MSM, especially, but not only, the leftist press and the BBC and channel 4 axis of TV.
    It is not Zimbabwean pentacostals, Gujerati Hindus, Polish Catholics or Roma that are behind all these incidents. It is not multiculturism that is the problem. Multiculturism requires mutual understandings and respect between cultures, the problem is that at least one sector of one community demands respect but does not respect any other culture.
    I see that you still do not mention the name of this Culture/Religious community. And how many Zimbabwean pentacostals, are there in the UK? You are talking twaddle as is usual.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Got to leave until later.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Socrates said:

    1400 young girls over the timescale works out at 100 per year new cases. Rotherham is not such a big town that 100 girls being abused would not get noticed by schools, families, police and council services; or for that matter "community leaders". A very blind eye must have been turned.

    And the Pakistani community there is just 8,000 people. 1400 victims sexually exploited in a community of 8,000. It beggars belief.
    It's worse than that. Of the 8,000, only 4,000 would be male and at most 2,000 would be of an age likely to be involved in this (say aged 20 to 60). So on that basis you have at least 1,400 girls being abused by at most 2,000 men.

    The incidence of criminality among those 2,000 must be staggeringly high. For all we know it is typical rather than exceptional behaviour.
    The Rotherham girls were trafficked and abused across the North of England , so I am not sure these figures are very valid. Nonetheless we do need a major enquiry into whether in the other towns there are similar numbers.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Oldies for the Union:

    The latest survey showed in Scotland support for independence among the over-50s was higher at 28 per cent but a significant majority, 65 per cent, was in favour of remaining within the UK while the undecideds totalled just seven per cent.


    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/saga-poll-finds-three-quarters-of-uk-over-50s-against-a-split.25159357
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    The Scottish referendum betting seems to have been dominated by short-term trading on Betfair,more work for the bots.As for the books they reflect the polls which reveal No will get 40-45% consistently and have done so for some time.It's not unreasonable the Dont Knows will split in the same way.The campaigns on both sides are achieving zilch and the bookies have their positions well protected.That means there is little value to be found
    All in all indicating the 2-1 with Shadsy's lot for this band offers a bit more for an "Any To Come" double with the suggested bet on turnout at 10-11.
    Otherwise,the Scottish referendum is a no-score,bore draw.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    SeanT said:

    The Rotherham case is just enormous. Shattering. It's so big it's hard to comprehend.

    One thousand four hundred girls raped and abused. That would be shocking if it was a UK-wide stat. But it is from just one northern town. And presumably is not unique.

    This has the potential to change our political landscape, when people grasp the scale and the awfulness.

    The nationwide figure could run into six figures.

  • William Hill - Scottish currency after independence
    - Which currency will they be using 2 years after independence if Scotland votes yes in the 2014 referendum?

    Sterling 1/2
    Euro 3/1
    Own Currency 5/1
    Other Currency 25/1
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    saddo said:

    Is Rotherham and beyond a big black swan flying into Labour's air space? Rotherham will not be alone - at the very least the previous systematic child abuse cases all appeared as tips of icebergs, with the linking factor of Labour council's being in place for decades of 1 party rule.
    This is a party political issue as its the left & labour who activity push a politically correct agenda which has led to this national disgrace in the first place.

    I know nobody in public life, or associated with Common Purpose ever resigns these days, but there should by rights be Labour councilors across the north and midlands resigning today and withdrawing permanently from public life.
    Don't even start me on the police.

    Another case was in Oxford, where the county council responsible is Conservative-led.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-23079649
    Ridiculous to blame each others parties. Let's face it the Lab/Lib/Con party has let this happen by instituting, then following PC regimes in every walk of life. Then making MULTICULTURALISM into the new religion for the UK and making anyone who differs from these themes of life into heretics, pilloried in the MSM, especially, but not only, the leftist press and the BBC and channel 4 axis of TV.
    It is not Zimbabwean pentacostals, Gujerati Hindus, Polish Catholics or Roma that are behind all these incidents. It is not multiculturism that is the problem. Multiculturism requires mutual understandings and respect between cultures, the problem is that at least one sector of one community demands respect but does not respect any other culture.
    I see that you still do not mention the name of this Culture/Religious community. And how many Zimbabwean pentacostals, are there in the UK? You are talking twaddle as is usual.
    Plenty of African Pentacostals in Leicester, their choir is a real treat! But also plenty of other communities that do live up to their part of the multicultural deal.

    Gap Year Jihadis and these Rotherham abusers come from the same backgrounds, one of petty crime and where young men are not properly constrained by their families or peers. The extreme modesty forced on girls in the community has a polar opposite with the boys. They are out of control, and have no respect for their mothers or any moderating influence.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @SeanT
    Young girls being used as prostitutes offend you Sean?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    The Rotherham case is just enormous. Shattering. It's so big it's hard to comprehend.

    One thousand four hundred girls raped and abused. That would be shocking if it was a UK-wide stat. But it is from just one northern town. And presumably is not unique.

    This has the potential to change our political landscape, when people grasp the scale and the awfulness.

    I still find it staggering people on here thought I had an "obsession" when I was trying to highlight the scale of abuse being ignored by the mainstream media.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2014
    This is clearly a problem of culture. Some cultures fit the modern world and some don’t. Some cultures generate respect and some demand it whether they do or not.

    And it’s not a problem of multiculturalism. Most immigrant cultures in the UK are proud of their origins but also fit happily into the host UK culture. They are the true multiculturalists – the sort the left imagines when it lionises multiculturalism. The real problem is actually monoculturalism. We endure a cancerous implant that rejects its host entirely. Assimilation does not require that immigrants abandon their own culture – but it does require that they find a happy mix. A mix involving two way respect.

    That is not where the Rotherham types are. My own view is that we should collectively demand true multiculturalism – but mean it. As a two way street. Earn some damned respect.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Telegraph – “The report also described how social workers and council chiefs were quick to dismiss the concerns of parents who were attempting to protect their children. In one case in 2002 a mother contacted social services to voice concerns that her 14-year-old daughter was going missing regularly and was being plied with drink by older males.

    Her mother said she was worried that her daughter had become sexually active with members of the group. But despite showing signs that she had been sexually exploited from the age of 11, the case was closed and the social worker’s assessment was that the mother was unable to accept the fact that her daughter was growing up.”

    Bizarre, even back then, there were laws against it - Do social services still regard adult males having sex with underage girls aged 11-14 as part of ‘growing up’ ..?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    The Rotherham case is just enormous. Shattering. It's so big it's hard to comprehend.

    One thousand four hundred girls raped and abused. That would be shocking if it was a UK-wide stat. But it is from just one northern town. And presumably is not unique.

    This has the potential to change our political landscape, when people grasp the scale and the awfulness.

    The nationwide figure could run into six figures.

    How many towns do you think it happened in?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    Telegraph – “The report also described how social workers and council chiefs were quick to dismiss the concerns of parents who were attempting to protect their children. In one case in 2002 a mother contacted social services to voice concerns that her 14-year-old daughter was going missing regularly and was being plied with drink by older males.

    Her mother said she was worried that her daughter had become sexually active with members of the group. But despite showing signs that she had been sexually exploited from the age of 11, the case was closed and the social worker’s assessment was that the mother was unable to accept the fact that her daughter was growing up.”

    Bizarre, even back then, there were laws against it - Do social services still regard adult males having sex with underage girls aged 11-14 as part of ‘growing up’ ..?

    It makes you wonder what these people think is the purpose of having an age of consent.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    The Rotherham case is just enormous. Shattering. It's so big it's hard to comprehend.

    One thousand four hundred girls raped and abused. That would be shocking if it was a UK-wide stat. But it is from just one northern town. And presumably is not unique.

    This has the potential to change our political landscape, when people grasp the scale and the awfulness.

    I still find it staggering people on here thought I had an "obsession" when I was trying to highlight the scale of abuse being ignored by the mainstream media.
    I seem to remember one poster jeeringly commenting about "Dem Muslamics."

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Patrick
    It clearly is a problem with culture, but as long as you can can point a finger at just a single culture, the problem will never be solved.
    Child exploitation is not a new phenomenon that has arisen with the influx of a new community, it has always been around.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Smarmeron said:

    @SeanT
    Young girls being used as prostitutes offend you Sean?

    Why do you seem keen to smear others, rather than criticise those who carry out the abuse?
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Socrates said:

    1400 young girls over the timescale works out at 100 per year new cases. Rotherham is not such a big town that 100 girls being abused would not get noticed by schools, families, police and council services; or for that matter "community leaders". A very blind eye must have been turned.

    And the Pakistani community there is just 8,000 people. 1400 victims sexually exploited in a community of 8,000. It beggars belief.
    It's worse than that. Of the 8,000, only 4,000 would be male and at most 2,000 would be of an age likely to be involved in this (say aged 20 to 60). So on that basis you have at least 1,400 girls being abused by at most 2,000 men.

    The incidence of criminality among those 2,000 must be staggeringly high. For all we know it is typical rather than exceptional behaviour.
    And for all we know it isn't. Your intuition as to how the statistics pan out is entirely valueless - at least I hope it is, because the only thing which would give it value is detailed first-hand knowledge of how these things happen - and as I've already pointed out to you Savile achieved similar figures single-handed. Things are quite bad enough without your gratuitously trying to make them look worse than they necessarily are.

  • Socrates said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    The Rotherham case is just enormous. Shattering. It's so big it's hard to comprehend.

    One thousand four hundred girls raped and abused. That would be shocking if it was a UK-wide stat. But it is from just one northern town. And presumably is not unique.

    This has the potential to change our political landscape, when people grasp the scale and the awfulness.

    The nationwide figure could run into six figures.

    How many towns do you think it happened in?

    In answer to this question, Prof Jay said that because there were no central statistics it was not possible to say if things elsewhere were better or worse than Rotherham.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited August 2014
    @TheWatcher
    Because, I believe that those who took advantage of those children were not just the ones that groomed them, but also those that paid the groomers/pimps.
    The crime was and still is terrible, and those that through neglect, greed or sexual perversion should be treated for what they are.
    Here on PB, the discussion is about smearing a group, and the Labour party, while ignoring all the other cases that don't fit your political agenda.
    North Wales, Glencora, Newcastle, The Catholic church, and possibly even the top of our political system.
    These can be ignored because it does not fit your agenda.
    Tell me all about smears Watcher, you seem to have a degree of expertise on the subject.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2014
    Beheadings
    Stonings
    Honour killings
    Civil war
    Organised mass child rape
    Female genital mutilation
    Terrorism
    State sponsored funding of terrorism
    Genocide
    et
    cetera
    ad
    nauseam

    All in the news in recent months. I wonder what the connecting theme might be here?

    Everyone else’s patience may run out with this lot at some point. We may in our current age simply be enjoying the fruits of ‘Peak Muslim’. It won’t go on forever.

    Maybe it’s simpler than we think. Young men everywhere want what they want. Maybe all these young monsters need is a girlfriend who puts out, beer, a barbecue and for their ‘community leaders’ to STFU. We’d all be a lot happier. So would they.
  • Ishmael_X said:

    Socrates said:

    1400 young girls over the timescale works out at 100 per year new cases. Rotherham is not such a big town that 100 girls being abused would not get noticed by schools, families, police and council services; or for that matter "community leaders". A very blind eye must have been turned.

    And the Pakistani community there is just 8,000 people. 1400 victims sexually exploited in a community of 8,000. It beggars belief.
    It's worse than that. Of the 8,000, only 4,000 would be male and at most 2,000 would be of an age likely to be involved in this (say aged 20 to 60). So on that basis you have at least 1,400 girls being abused by at most 2,000 men.

    The incidence of criminality among those 2,000 must be staggeringly high. For all we know it is typical rather than exceptional behaviour.
    And for all we know it isn't. Your intuition as to how the statistics pan out is entirely valueless - at least I hope it is, because the only thing which would give it value is detailed first-hand knowledge of how these things happen - and as I've already pointed out to you Savile achieved similar figures single-handed. Things are quite bad enough without your gratuitously trying to make them look worse than they necessarily are.

    It is near certain that Savile got away with it because of tacit if not overt complicity within the institutions in which he worked. To date, none within those institutions have faced charges.

    What do you think the chances are at Rotherham?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    On twitter via Paul Waugh. ‏@paulwaugh 5m
    BREAKING Labour spokesman re Rotherham: "In the light of this report, it's appropriate SYorks PCC Shaun Wright shd step down"
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "It clearly is a problem with culture, but as long as you can can point a finger at just a single culture, the problem will never be solved."

    As Dr Heinz Kiosk would say, "We are all guilty!"
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Smarmeron,

    The problem here is that they seem to have turned a blind eye to the problem because of "racial sensitivity"

    Had the villains been white chavs, do you think they would they have acted the same way?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @CD13
    What caused people to turn a "blind eye" in all the other cases?
    And are those reasons better than the ones at Rochdale?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    dr_spyn said:

    On twitter via Paul Waugh. ‏@paulwaugh 5m
    BREAKING Labour spokesman re Rotherham: "In the light of this report, it's appropriate SYorks PCC Shaun Wright shd step down"

    As Harry Cole tweets: Labour mop up attempt: call for SY PCC to resign. Why? Because he was a former Labour Cllr in Rotherham. If he has to go, why not the rest?
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Ishmael_X said:

    Socrates said:

    1400 young girls over the timescale works out at 100 per year new cases. Rotherham is not such a big town that 100 girls being abused would not get noticed by schools, families, police and council services; or for that matter "community leaders". A very blind eye must have been turned.

    And the Pakistani community there is just 8,000 people. 1400 victims sexually exploited in a community of 8,000. It beggars belief.
    It's worse than that. Of the 8,000, only 4,000 would be male and at most 2,000 would be of an age likely to be involved in this (say aged 20 to 60). So on that basis you have at least 1,400 girls being abused by at most 2,000 men.

    The incidence of criminality among those 2,000 must be staggeringly high. For all we know it is typical rather than exceptional behaviour.
    And for all we know it isn't. Your intuition as to how the statistics pan out is entirely valueless - at least I hope it is, because the only thing which would give it value is detailed first-hand knowledge of how these things happen - and as I've already pointed out to you Savile achieved similar figures single-handed. Things are quite bad enough without your gratuitously trying to make them look worse than they necessarily are.

    It is near certain that Savile got away with it because of tacit if not overt complicity within the institutions in which he worked. To date, none within those institutions have faced charges.

    What do you think the chances are at Rotherham?
    Not my point. What I object to is the use of pretendy, top-of-my-head statistoids to justify statements of the kind "for all we know it is typical rather than exceptional behaviour".

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    The Rotherham case is just enormous. Shattering. It's so big it's hard to comprehend.

    One thousand four hundred girls raped and abused. That would be shocking if it was a UK-wide stat. But it is from just one northern town. And presumably is not unique.

    This has the potential to change our political landscape, when people grasp the scale and the awfulness.

    The nationwide figure could run into six figures.

    Do you think it's happening all over the place? I can't comment on a personal level. Obviously we have Rotherham, Rochdale, Derby and Oxford. You don't think it is isolated?

    Rotherham has for a long time been a Labour Party one party state. Time for PR in local government?

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Sean_F said:

    Telegraph – “The report also described how social workers and council chiefs were quick to dismiss the concerns of parents who were attempting to protect their children. In one case in 2002 a mother contacted social services to voice concerns that her 14-year-old daughter was going missing regularly and was being plied with drink by older males.

    Her mother said she was worried that her daughter had become sexually active with members of the group. But despite showing signs that she had been sexually exploited from the age of 11, the case was closed and the social worker’s assessment was that the mother was unable to accept the fact that her daughter was growing up.”

    Bizarre, even back then, there were laws against it - Do social services still regard adult males having sex with underage girls aged 11-14 as part of ‘growing up’ ..?

    It makes you wonder what these people think is the purpose of having an age of consent.
    Well quite. – Perhaps that particular incident was an isolated case; to give them their due, social services do appear to have raised many concerns over several years, but nothing seems to have been acted upon by department heads.

    When basic laws such ‘age of consent’ are dismissed at the altar of multiculturalism, entire departments require an augean stables clear out imho.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    Smarmeron said:

    @TheWatcher
    Because, I believe that those who took advantage of those children were not just the ones that groomed them, but also those that paid the groomers/pimps.
    The crime was and still is terrible, and those that through neglect, greed or sexual perversion should be treated for what they are.
    Here on PB, the discussion is about smearing a group, and the Labour party, while ignoring all the other cases that don't fit your political agenda.
    North Wales, Glencora, Newcastle, The Catholic church, and possibly even the top of our political system.
    These can be ignored because it does not fit your agenda.
    Tell me all about smears Watcher, you seem to have a degree of expertise on the subject.

    Issues like Savile, child abuse in the Catholic Church, PIE, etc. have certainly been discussed here (libel laws permitting).

    The motivations of the perpetrators of this particular form of child abuse, and the reasons why people in authority turned a blind eye/ covered up for it, are certainly topics that need to be discussed.

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    dr_spyn said:

    On twitter via Paul Waugh. ‏@paulwaugh 5m
    BREAKING Labour spokesman re Rotherham: "In the light of this report, it's appropriate SYorks PCC Shaun Wright shd step down"

    The entire labour council at Rotherham should resign en mass.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Rochdale should have been Rotherham in my previous post (you can get confused by the number of cases)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    The Rotherham case is just enormous. Shattering. It's so big it's hard to comprehend.

    One thousand four hundred girls raped and abused. That would be shocking if it was a UK-wide stat. But it is from just one northern town. And presumably is not unique.

    This has the potential to change our political landscape, when people grasp the scale and the awfulness.

    The nationwide figure could run into six figures.

    Do you think it's happening all over the place? I can't comment on a personal level. Obviously we have Rotherham, Rochdale, Derby and Oxford. You don't think it is isolated?

    Rotherham has for a long time been a Labour Party one party state. Time for PR in local government?

    I can't say for certain. But, the emergence of one scandal after another seems to imply that the problem is endemic, and that Rotherham is not an isolated example.

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Smarmeron,

    I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but do you really believe that "racial sensitivity" wasn't a reason?

    Surely, you're not saying .... Rotherham? Nothing to see here, move along, please.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Smarmeron said:

    @Patrick
    It clearly is a problem with culture, but as long as you can can point a finger at just a single culture, the problem will never be solved.
    Child exploitation is not a new phenomenon that has arisen with the influx of a new community, it has always been around.

    You can solve specific and extreme manifestations of the problem, though. By analogy there are still lots of anti-semites in Germany, but the number of death camps in the country fell really quite steeply after people started pointing a finger at the Nazi party.

  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    SeanT said:

    Patrick said:

    Beheadings
    Stonings
    Honour killings
    Civil war
    Organised mass child rape
    Female genital mutilation
    Terrorism
    State sponsored funding of terrorism
    Genocide
    et
    cetera
    ad
    nauseam

    All in the news in recent months. I wonder what the connecting theme might be here?

    Everyone else’s patience may run out with this lot at some point. We may in our current age simply be enjoying the fruits of ‘Peak Muslim’. It won’t go on forever.

    Maybe it’s simpler than we think. Young men everywhere want what they want. Maybe all these young monsters need is a girlfriend who puts out, beer, a barbecue and for their ‘community leaders’ to STFU. We’d all be a lot happier. So would they.

    You forgot cousin marriage producing horribly high levels of handicapped children. And forced marriage. And... Etc etc etc
    It's the God module that does it all. Praise Be!
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Hostile BBC interview with Shaun Wright on News 24.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    Sean_F said:

    Telegraph – “The report also described how social workers and council chiefs were quick to dismiss the concerns of parents who were attempting to protect their children. In one case in 2002 a mother contacted social services to voice concerns that her 14-year-old daughter was going missing regularly and was being plied with drink by older males.

    Her mother said she was worried that her daughter had become sexually active with members of the group. But despite showing signs that she had been sexually exploited from the age of 11, the case was closed and the social worker’s assessment was that the mother was unable to accept the fact that her daughter was growing up.”

    Bizarre, even back then, there were laws against it - Do social services still regard adult males having sex with underage girls aged 11-14 as part of ‘growing up’ ..?

    It makes you wonder what these people think is the purpose of having an age of consent.
    Well quite. – Perhaps that particular incident was an isolated case; to give them their due, social services do appear to have raised many concerns over several years, but nothing seems to have been acted upon by department heads.

    When basic laws such ‘age of consent’ are dismissed at the altar of multiculturalism, entire departments require an augean stables clear out imho.
    Not just multiculturalism. Some people think that enforcement of the age of consent is absurdly reactionary, or judgemental.

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @CD13
    No, I am not saying "Nothing to see here".
    The crimes are terrible, and people need to be held to account, but to pin it all on one racial group is asinine. People seek power over others for various reasons, and get a degree of immunity for equally varied reasons.
    Do you think that "pimps" are only Muslims these days?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,118
    edited August 2014

    "A Question of Time" - Depeche Mode, from "Black Celebration" album (1986)
    written by Martin L. Gore

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pt7EWFF_T8

    I've got to get to you first
    Before they do
    It's just a question of time
    Before they lay their hands on you
    And make you just like the rest
    I've got to get to you first
    It's just a question of time

    Well now you're only fifteen
    And you look good
    I'll take you under my wing
    Somebody should
    They've persuasive ways
    And you'll believe what they say

    It's just a question of time
    It's running out for you
    It won't be long
    Until you do
    Exactly what they want you to

    I can see them now
    Hanging around
    To mess you up
    To strip you down
    And have their fun
    With my little one

    It's just a question of time
    It's running out for you

    It won't be long
    Until you do
    Exactly what they want you to

    It won't be long
    Until you do
    Exactly what they want you to

    Sometimes I don't blame them
    For wanting you
    You look good
    And they need something to do
    Until I look at you
    And then I condemn them
    I know my kind
    What goes on in our minds

    It's just a question of time
    It should be better
    It's just a question of time
    It should be better with you
    It's just a question of time
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    dr_spyn said:

    On twitter via Paul Waugh. ‏@paulwaugh 5m
    BREAKING Labour spokesman re Rotherham: "In the light of this report, it's appropriate SYorks PCC Shaun Wright shd step down"

    The entire labour council at Rotherham should resign en mass.
    I agree.

    Look if the French government can resign en masse over what is essentially a squabble over economic policy, then surely an elected body like Rotherham council should be doing so following such a disatsrous and unmitigated failure to act to protect children in their care?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Telegraph – “The report also described how social workers and council chiefs were quick to dismiss the concerns of parents who were attempting to protect their children. In one case in 2002 a mother contacted social services to voice concerns that her 14-year-old daughter was going missing regularly and was being plied with drink by older males.

    Her mother said she was worried that her daughter had become sexually active with members of the group. But despite showing signs that she had been sexually exploited from the age of 11, the case was closed and the social worker’s assessment was that the mother was unable to accept the fact that her daughter was growing up.”

    Bizarre, even back then, there were laws against it - Do social services still regard adult males having sex with underage girls aged 11-14 as part of ‘growing up’ ..?

    It makes you wonder what these people think is the purpose of having an age of consent.
    Well quite. – Perhaps that particular incident was an isolated case; to give them their due, social services do appear to have raised many concerns over several years, but nothing seems to have been acted upon by department heads.

    When basic laws such ‘age of consent’ are dismissed at the altar of multiculturalism, entire departments require an augean stables clear out imho.
    Not just multiculturalism. Some people think that enforcement of the age of consent is absurdly reactionary, or judgemental.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/11055156/Offer-sex-education-to-all-children-from-age-of-seven-Lib-Dems-say.html
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2014
    Michael White in the Guardian:

    "Most sexual abusers in Britain are white males acting alone, we were again reminded, quite rightly, yesterday and again today as Jay's report was being digested."

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/aug/27/nigel-farage-stands-kent-ukip-gains-rotherham?CMP=twt_gu

    Why do we keep having to be "reminded" of this? Since about 85% of the population is white, it's exactly what you'd expect.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Any reason why no one is talking about the biggest story of the last few days on here? Especially as it has an important political angle.

    Is it not allowed or something daft like that?

    They are too busy worrying about what currency Scotland will use and how we will cope with being flooded by oil

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I'm not convinced on turnout below 80%, I recently spent some time in Scotland, in the housing estate of the western central belt.

    People who have never been politically engaged in the slightest appear certain to vote, what stunned me was how strong the tide to "yes" was esp amongst the very poor.

    It was explained to me that the poorer you are, the less potency the scare stories have; they have nothing to lose and are willing to take a chance on change.

    Turnout is going to be massive, esp amongst the very poor

    The Tories on here do not want to hear sensible stuff like that. They know that we are all so stupid we will vote to continue getting subsidised and leading the high life chanting Better Together. They think it is paradise up here and they are paying for us to sup champagne and nibble caviar on the dole, whilst selecting holiday locations.
    The "Tories on here" have been saying for quite some time that it will be the traditional Labour vote, in particular in the poorer western parts of the central belt that decide this - and praying daily for SLAB to get its act together.

    But if you read anything anyone else wrote, instead of just reacting with bile and invective, you'd know that.
    Dear Dear, mrs gloom and doom pauses from posting blatant propaganda to berate me once again. Is that your Tory get out clause , "it was labour that lost it".
    It is cowardly Tories trying to get Labour to do their dirty work that has scuppered both of them. Tories are a busted flush but creepy enough to have taken Labour patsies to the cleaners. Throw in the Lib Dumbs and you have a full set of rogues.
    If you ever bothered to read the polls:

    Net "no" (excl DK)
    Con: +82
    Lab: +50

    There aren't many Tories left to persuade to vote no......
    There aren't many Tories
    2010 General Election number of voters:

    SNP: 491,386
    Con: 412,855
    Ha Ha Ha , what a surprise, How many MP's or MSP's for that matter and the few they have are due to list consolation prizes for the biggest losers.
    You said there weren't many Tories - wrong again, as usual.
    Na Na Na Na Na
  • Ishmael_X said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Socrates said:

    1400 young girls over the timescale works out at 100 per year new cases. Rotherham is not such a big town that 100 girls being abused would not get noticed by schools, families, police and council services; or for that matter "community leaders". A very blind eye must have been turned.

    And the Pakistani community there is just 8,000 people. 1400 victims sexually exploited in a community of 8,000. It beggars belief.
    It's worse than that. Of the 8,000, only 4,000 would be male and at most 2,000 would be of an age likely to be involved in this (say aged 20 to 60). So on that basis you have at least 1,400 girls being abused by at most 2,000 men.

    The incidence of criminality among those 2,000 must be staggeringly high. For all we know it is typical rather than exceptional behaviour.
    And for all we know it isn't. Your intuition as to how the statistics pan out is entirely valueless - at least I hope it is, because the only thing which would give it value is detailed first-hand knowledge of how these things happen - and as I've already pointed out to you Savile achieved similar figures single-handed. Things are quite bad enough without your gratuitously trying to make them look worse than they necessarily are.

    It is near certain that Savile got away with it because of tacit if not overt complicity within the institutions in which he worked. To date, none within those institutions have faced charges.

    What do you think the chances are at Rotherham?
    Not my point. What I object to is the use of pretendy, top-of-my-head statistoids to justify statements of the kind "for all we know it is typical rather than exceptional behaviour".

    Not that far removed, Ishmael.

    Pretendy statistoids distract from the source of the problem. It may or may not be the case that there is some cultural proclivity towards this kind of misbehaviour among certain groups - be they immigrants from Pakistan, disc jockeys, Catholic priests, members of the House of Lords, or whatever - but the fundamental problem is the 'blind eye' turned by those who had the power to act, and could and should have done so.

    That failure runs across all these recent scandals.
  • Patrick said:

    Beheadings
    Stonings
    Honour killings
    Civil war
    Organised mass child rape
    Female genital mutilation
    Terrorism
    State sponsored funding of terrorism
    Genocide
    et
    cetera
    ad
    nauseam

    All in the news in recent months. I wonder what the connecting theme might be here?

    Everyone else’s patience may run out with this lot at some point. We may in our current age simply be enjoying the fruits of ‘Peak Muslim’. It won’t go on forever.

    Maybe it’s simpler than we think. Young men everywhere want what they want. Maybe all these young monsters need is a girlfriend who puts out, beer, a barbecue and for their ‘community leaders’ to STFU. We’d all be a lot happier. So would they.

    It's like the complete opposite of the Monty Python "What have the romans done for us?" sketch.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Smarmeron,

    Rotherham was the council that thought that Ukip members weren't suitable adoptive parents. No judgemental decisions there, then.

    The report suggests that the race of the perpetrator was relevant. You seem to disagree (I may be wrong). Of course, many Pakistanis in Rotherham will be just as horrified as is Yasmin Alibhi-Brown but she, at least, is willing to face facts.

    Within some British Asian circles, the West is considered degenerate and immoral. So it's OK to take their girls and ruin them further." She continues: "Yes, racists will have further ammunition after this report..."I will always fight for the rights of minorities. But I will not defend the indefensible."
This discussion has been closed.