Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Indyref polling round up – Could the NHS be what wins it fo

124»

Comments

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @AndyJS

    Speaking as a Pragmatic Communist, ISIS/IS show a distinct lack of pragmatism, and a woeful knowledge of sociability.....So bomb the crap out of them! (pragmatically of course)
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    AndyJS said:

    I'm not sneering, but it's interesting how many people who thought we shouldn't get involved in Iraq under any circumstances just a few weeks ago have completely changed their minds and now think we should take action. When the facts change, etc.

    Christians and Kurds are different Andy.

  • Y0kel said:

    AndyJS said:

    I'm not sneering, but it's interesting how many people who thought we shouldn't get involved in Iraq under any circumstances just a few weeks ago have completely changed their minds and now think we should take action. When the facts change, etc.

    Christians and Kurds are different Andy.

    Kurdistan greatest country in world!
    All other countries are run by little girls!
  • ***Polling question***

    Looking back at last week's polls (Fieldwork 10th to 16th), I count 10 polls, and while nine seem to have final published VI figures that make sense, the final VI figures for the ICM from the Guardian (FW 8th-10th Aug) seem to have been plucked from thin air (see table 4 below):

    PDF: http://www.icmresearch.com/data/media/pdf/2014_aug_guardian_bpc.pdf
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Any ideas how they came up with the data in Table 4?
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    saddened said:

    Mr. Owls, under Labour I was seen by a private hospital because the NHS couldn't see me in sufficient time. Should I have complained to my Labour MP about the evil privatisation?



    .

    ...
    ....
    Efficiency savings are not defined in advance. They are a percentage topsliced off the department/units budget universally.

    In practice they are illusory and not unrelated to the fact that we miss the budget targets...

    saddened said:

    Mr. Owls, under Labour I was seen by a private hospital because the NHS couldn't see me in sufficient time. Should I have complained to my Labour MP about the evil privatisation?



    Do you know how much that cost the NHS?

    Have you seen the lucrative contracts the private providers were given?

    Milburn thought it was a short term fix ( IMO he is the 3rd worst SoS in the last 32 years)

    Couldnt see you in time? look at the position pre 1997 and Post 2010

    That is why the voters do not trust the Tories on the NHS

    Lansley (IMO the worst SoS in last 32 years) has broke in all senses of the word the NHS for good and the Tories will pay an electoral price for that IMO.

    Do you provide management services to the NHS by any chance?
    No I worked in it for 32 years, am passionate about it and people will lament its passing as set in train by the aforesaid SoS
    ...
    Efficiency savings are not defined in advance. They are a percentage topsliced off the department/units budget universally.

    In practice they are illusory and not unrelated to the fact that we miss the budget targets...
    I do not follow what you are talking about. There is a massive efficierncy drive going on throughoiut the NHS. Labour promised it. The tories are delivering it. It's not illusory.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/making-the-nhs-more-efficient-and-less-bureaucratic
    http://www.nhsiq.nhs.uk/
    https://www.evidence.nhs.uk/qipp

    Just one example
    http://www.supplychain.nhs.uk/news/press-releases/2014/driving-procurement-efficiencies-to-deliver-150m-savings/

    The notion that the NHS is monolithic and unchanging is rubbish. These efficiencies show it. It also points to the fact that the NHS needs reforms to enable itself to make the efficiencies.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Ever read something that makes The Guardian seem like The Daily Mail?

    http://thepositive.com
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited August 2014

    ***Polling question***

    Looking back at last week's polls (Fieldwork 10th to 16th), I count 10 polls, and while nine seem to have final published VI figures that make sense, the final VI figures for the ICM from the Guardian (FW 8th-10th Aug) seem to have been plucked from thin air (see table 4 below):

    PDF: http://www.icmresearch.com/data/media/pdf/2014_aug_guardian_bpc.pdf
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Any ideas how they came up with the data in Table 4?

    UKIP being lower than Lib Dems ?

    Non voters last time worth half + Spiral of silence for don't knows reallocates back to 2010 VI party.

    ICM "weighted base" is a better guide to UKIP/Lib Dem fortunes imo (Table 1)
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    malcolmg said:

    Hmmmm so ICM asked Scots whether Darling and Cameron are less trusted on what I believe is a devolved area. Now if I am not mistaken unless either or both of them decide to stand for the Scottish Assembly or there is a major reverse in devolution policy at Westminster (which certainly I've not picked up on) then they have little or no opportunity to influence Scottish Health policies.

    Not that I doubt that people could be influenced by such considerations but I do wish pollsters would ask questions that are based on reality!

    Hmmmmmm so the £4B proposed cut in Scottish budget by 2017 will not affect the NHS in Scotland?
    The budget cuts are as a result of the idiocy of a Scottish socialist chancellor and then PM who left a 160 billion deficit.
    In England the NHS budget has been ring fenced. Health is a devolved issue in Scotland so the answer lies with the Scottish devolved govt.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited August 2014
    isam said:

    Ever read something that makes The Guardian seem like The Daily Mail?

    http://thepositive.com

    WIll Kellie be standing as an MP for UKIP ?

    Could be a decent shot for Brighton if she wants it ^_~/
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Flightpath
    No blame can be attached to the finance sector globally?
    At the time in question, what was Cameron's position on financial control?
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Smarmeron said:

    @AndyJS

    Speaking as a Pragmatic Communist

    a bolshevik rather than a menshevik? :)

    if i recall correctly the former head of the iraqi communists has a grave next to Karl MArx at Highgate. (no significance, just a wee spot of fun trivia for you)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    malcolmg said:

    Hmmmm so ICM asked Scots whether Darling and Cameron are less trusted on what I believe is a devolved area. Now if I am not mistaken unless either or both of them decide to stand for the Scottish Assembly or there is a major reverse in devolution policy at Westminster (which certainly I've not picked up on) then they have little or no opportunity to influence Scottish Health policies.

    Not that I doubt that people could be influenced by such considerations but I do wish pollsters would ask questions that are based on reality!

    Hmmmmmm so the £4B proposed cut in Scottish budget by 2017 will not affect the NHS in Scotland?
    The budget cuts are as a result of the idiocy of a Scottish socialist chancellor and then PM who left a 160 billion deficit.
    In England the NHS budget has been ring fenced. Health is a devolved issue in Scotland so the answer lies with the Scottish devolved govt.

    And your point is caller, explain how the devolved government can solve the problem when Westminster keep all the money. If the vote is NO the NHS in Scotland is stuffed , if YES then it has a chance.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @dugarbandier
    Communist, as in I think people are better working for each other, rather than greed.
    (Zen Christian as well) ;-)
  • Pulpstar said:

    ***Polling question***

    Looking back at last week's polls (Fieldwork 10th to 16th), I count 10 polls, and while nine seem to have final published VI figures that make sense, the final VI figures for the ICM from the Guardian (FW 8th-10th Aug) seem to have been plucked from thin air (see table 4 below):

    PDF: http://www.icmresearch.com/data/media/pdf/2014_aug_guardian_bpc.pdf
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Any ideas how they came up with the data in Table 4?

    UKIP being lower than Lib Dems ?

    Non voters last time worth half + Spiral of silence for don't knows reallocates back to 2010 VI party.

    ICM "weighted base" is a better guide to UKIP/Lib Dem fortunes imo (Table 1)
    Is that right? Where does the "736 respondents" come from?
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Smarmeron said:

    @dugarbandier
    Communist, as in I think people are better working for each other, rather than greed.
    (Zen Christian as well) ;-)

    well, obv jesus has that tomb in Srinagar....

    Have you heard the Spike Milligan Desert Island Discs? (lots of great things in those bbc archives)

    I think he says something like he loves Jesus Christ but hates Christianity (or the Church can`t remember exactly)

    not sure where I'm going with this.

    ah well- just to recommend many of the 70s Desert Island Discs interviews. Because the interview was so different then. And also because so many of the guests had seen service in WW2, its really interesting to have some sort of insight into that generation.

    shou-chu powered digressions. sorry loves x
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @dugarbandier
    No, I haven't listened to it but he has a point. Religions tend to make simple things complicated.....then fight over the technicalities
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,815
    Smarmeron said:

    @Luckyguy1983
    Exactly who does a health care company have a duty under law to look after?

    The health company has no duty under law, but if a health company isn't providing 'health' then it will quickly go out of business. That is the only principle that can be depended upon. The only time that a health company doesn't have to provide a good service is when it's being hired by the NHS, the custom here comes from NHS overspill rather than a consumer decision.

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Luckyguy1983
    Wrong, Companies act?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Quarantine centre for ebola patients in Liberia has been attacked and looted by protestors:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28827091

    I'm sure that'll help reduce the number of deaths. I feel huge sympathy for the medical staff. They're risking their lives, and it seems they have to contend with this nonsense as well as a very deadly disease.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2014
    Darn. This is going to be the second Test in a row where my fourth day ticket is going to have to be refunded.

    India 47/5.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Smarmeron said:

    @Luckyguy1983
    Exactly who does a health care company have a duty under law to look after?

    The health company has no duty under law, but if a health company isn't providing 'health' then it will quickly go out of business. That is the only principle that can be depended upon. The only time that a health company doesn't have to provide a good service is when it's being hired by the NHS, the custom here comes from NHS overspill rather than a consumer decision.

    Your utophia of being referred where you choose was the state of play until the eighties. Restrictions on where you could be referred came in with the internal market reforms of the Thatcher years.

    I think there are efficiencies to be had in the NHS, but what gets put into CIPs (Cost Improvement Plans) at present is often just tosh. The main component of the one I am involved with is better coding so we can charge other parts of the NHS more money. We probably have been under coding in the past. The plan consists of us hiring an extra clerk, not doing any more clinical work.

    Of course private companies never under code. They code to the maximum that they can get away with...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    From the link I posted a short time ago:

    "Officials said blood-stained bedding was looted from the centre."

    From an ebola treatment centre. Someone's going the extra mile to win a Darwin Award.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,815
    Since people are relating their experiences, I am happy to relate mine. When I was very small, my mother was consistently misdiagnosed (with migraines), and as her condition deteriorated, my father managed to take advantage of the Bupa package for her that was among his work benefits. She saw a specialist immediately, and was diagnosed with a brain tumour. She had days to live. It was operated on there and then, and thank God, after many operations and ups and downs, my Mother has been clear for about 20 years and is still going strong. I don't pretend for a minute this experience is indicative of the whole system, but there's no doubt that my mother owes her life to private healthcare. What we have at present is a two tier system where if you can afford to pay you get decent care, and if you can't you're playing Russian roulette. That cannot be right.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    SeanT said:

    Quick passing thought (perhaps someone else said it first) - I wonder if the latest UKIP surge is because of events in the Middle East?

    UKIP are seen as the only firm opponents of mass immigration, they are the ONLY party that has flirted with policies like "banning the burqa" (despite this controversial policy being supported by 65% of Brits).

    I can see no other reason for their return to polling strength. I don't buy the idea that Nigel standing for Thanet has enthused the millions.

    Definitely IMO.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SeanT said:

    Quick passing thought (perhaps someone else said it first) - I wonder if the latest UKIP surge is because of events in the Middle East?

    UKIP are seen as the only firm opponents of mass immigration, they are the ONLY party that has flirted with policies like "banning the burqa" (despite this controversial policy being supported by 65% of Brits).

    I can see no other reason for their return to polling strength. I don't buy the idea that Nigel standing for Thanet has enthused the millions.

    Except UKIP want only to ban migration from the atheist and Christian parts of europe, and have dropped the burka ban as well. They remain the blank canvas on which all sorts of annoyed people can project their fantasy politics.

    Good blog by the way.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    This woman wrote one of the most racist columns I have read earlier on in the month. If she had been a white person talking about black people she may have been charged with some kind of ridiculous hate crime, so I don't for a minute think the Lib Dems are a bunch of racist loons....

    But still...

    "A woman nicknamed the Hackney heroine for standing up to rioters in 2011 has announced she is stepping down from the race to be Liberal Democrat president over the party's "neanderthal views on diversity"."

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/17/hackney-heroine-pauline-pearce-lib-dem-presidential-race
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,815

    Smarmeron said:

    @Luckyguy1983
    Exactly who does a health care company have a duty under law to look after?

    The health company has no duty under law, but if a health company isn't providing 'health' then it will quickly go out of business. That is the only principle that can be depended upon. The only time that a health company doesn't have to provide a good service is when it's being hired by the NHS, the custom here comes from NHS overspill rather than a consumer decision.

    Your utophia of being referred where you choose was the state of play until the eighties. Restrictions on where you could be referred came in with the internal market reforms of the Thatcher years.

    I think there are efficiencies to be had in the NHS, but what gets put into CIPs (Cost Improvement Plans) at present is often just tosh. The main component of the one I am involved with is better coding so we can charge other parts of the NHS more money. We probably have been under coding in the past. The plan consists of us hiring an extra clerk, not doing any more clinical work.

    Of course private companies never under code. They code to the maximum that they can get away with...
    But my 'utopia' would mean that the funding would flow with the patients. Each patient would have a nominal 'account' from which their healthcare would be paid to the hospitals and treatment centres they chose. To my knowledge this has never been the case before. Any system where the funding does not flow from the service receivers to the service providers is open to distortion and a poor service.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,815
    AndyJS said:

    SeanT said:

    Quick passing thought (perhaps someone else said it first) - I wonder if the latest UKIP surge is because of events in the Middle East?

    UKIP are seen as the only firm opponents of mass immigration, they are the ONLY party that has flirted with policies like "banning the burqa" (despite this controversial policy being supported by 65% of Brits).

    I can see no other reason for their return to polling strength. I don't buy the idea that Nigel standing for Thanet has enthused the millions.

    Definitely IMO.
    I agree too. In fact sadly (I'm a massive Farage fan saying this) it seems to be when Nigel is less in the news that we get a boost. As I've said before, the slurs have been rather effective.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,815
    Smarmeron said:

    @Luckyguy1983
    Wrong, Companies act?

    I'm quite happy to be wrong, but I'm not sure what the point is you're trying to make? I must have missed a post.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    I could list you a whole host of Tory funders who have been given NHS contracct, however, every time I do it , the post gets dragged and I get warned, so I cannot.

    Most of them were given NHS contracts BY THE LABOUR GOVERNMENT.

    If you really want to smear political parties by implying contacts are given out in return for donations, I suggest you might first like to inform yourself about Capita and Rod Aldridge. I presume you are not making the libellous and untrue suggestion that the billions of pounds of government contracts awarded to Capita under the last government were in any way at all linked to Mr Aldridge's donations.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Quick passing thought (perhaps someone else said it first) - I wonder if the latest UKIP surge is because of events in the Middle East?

    UKIP are seen as the only firm opponents of mass immigration, they are the ONLY party that has flirted with policies like "banning the burqa" (despite this controversial policy being supported by 65% of Brits).

    I can see no other reason for their return to polling strength. I don't buy the idea that Nigel standing for Thanet has enthused the millions.

    Except UKIP want only to ban migration from the atheist and Christian parts of europe, and have dropped the burka ban as well. They remain the blank canvas on which all sorts of annoyed people can project their fantasy politics.

    Good blog by the way.
    That might be so, but they are certainly PERCEIVED as being the only serious opponents of mass immigration and "Islamification".

    Thanks for the compliment, and, again, the prayer mat phrase.
    But is it UKIP policy? I understand that the party wants to put non EU migration under the same points system as our liberal Christian European siblings.

    Polish Catholic or Iraqi Jihadi? UKIP wants to give them the same access if they have the same qualifications.
  • New Thread
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Luckyguy1983
    A company director is bound by law to make his company a success.
    The problem starts to creep in when the usual definition of "success" for a company is applied to healthcare.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Since people are relating their experiences, I am happy to relate mine. When I was very small, my mother was consistently misdiagnosed (with migraines), and as her condition deteriorated, my father managed to take advantage of the Bupa package for her that was among his work benefits. She saw a specialist immediately, and was diagnosed with a brain tumour. She had days to live. It was operated on there and then, and thank God, after many operations and ups and downs, my Mother has been clear for about 20 years and is still going strong. I don't pretend for a minute this experience is indicative of the whole system, but there's no doubt that my mother owes her life to private healthcare. What we have at present is a two tier system where if you can afford to pay you get decent care, and if you can't you're playing Russian roulette. That cannot be right.

    I'm not sure people who pay (or more likely, whose insurance companies pay) get better care. They may -- as apparently in your mother's case -- get faster diagnosis, or faster care, or better hotel facilities, but almost without exception the consultants in the private sector are also NHS consultants.
This discussion has been closed.