Found it more interesting than I thought it might be.
Our local (small town) WEA has booked a series of lectures on “Islam and Muslims in the UK and the Modern World.” Starts in January. I wonder how many will attend.
Mr. Owls, under Labour I was seen by a private hospital because the NHS couldn't see me in sufficient time. Should I have complained to my Labour MP about the evil privatisation?
Do you know how much that cost the NHS?
Have you seen the lucrative contracts the private providers were given?
Milburn thought it was a short term fix ( IMO he is the 3rd worst SoS in the last 32 years)
Couldnt see you in time? look at the position pre 1997 and Post 2010
That is why the voters do not trust the Tories on the NHS
Lansley (IMO the worst SoS in last 32 years) has broke in all senses of the word the NHS for good and the Tories will pay an electoral price for that IMO.
''Unfortunately the Coalition are privatising the NHS in England doing the SNP;s work for them but helping Ed in his quest to be PM''
Do you have a shred of evidence that people are being refused treatment free at the point of use? That they are being charged?
Of course not.
Correct. And the NHS is not being privatised. Such talk is bogus and nothing more than baseless scaremongering. Anyone who is interested can look at Labour's 2010 manifesto which said... ''In health, this means if we don’t meet our guarantees, for example on waiting lists, the NHS will fund you to go private.'' ''Foundation Trusts will be given the freedom to expand their provision into primary and community care, and to increase their private services '' ''We will support an active role for the independent sector working alongside the NHS in the provision of care''
BTW - for those peddling Labours 'cost of living' line labour also promised ''action to control public-sector pay including a one per cent cap on basic pay uplifts for 2011-12 and 2012-13, saving £3.4 billion a year ''
I do loathe postal voting. I hope they don't make a difference, either way.
Edited extra bit: on currency union, a politician backtracking on that would find his career dangling from a lamp post.
Not keen on it either but going to use it this time as I will be busy on 18th packing my bucket and spade. TWO YES votes guaranteed.
Will you be completing Mrs G's ballot? ;-)
How do you KNOW how Mrs G will vote?
Surprisingly we discuss the topic ( not always agreeing either ) and she has journeyed from the dark side after looking at the facts. So unless she changes her mind in the next few weeks I am confident how she will vote.
''Unfortunately the Coalition are privatising the NHS in England doing the SNP;s work for them but helping Ed in his quest to be PM''
Do you have a shred of evidence that people are being refused treatment free at the point of use? That they are being charged?
Of course not.
Where did you get that definition of Privatisation?
Primarily, it is the process of transferring a business, enterprise, agency, public service, or public property from the public sector (a government) to the private sector, to a business that operates for a profit.
That is the definition that will cost the Tories votes IMO
Mr. Owls, under Labour I was seen by a private hospital because the NHS couldn't see me in sufficient time. Should I have complained to my Labour MP about the evil privatisation?
Do you know how much that cost the NHS?
Have you seen the lucrative contracts the private providers were given?
Milburn thought it was a short term fix ( IMO he is the 3rd worst SoS in the last 32 years)
Couldnt see you in time? look at the position pre 1997 and Post 2010
That is why the voters do not trust the Tories on the NHS
Lansley (IMO the worst SoS in last 32 years) has broke in all senses of the word the NHS for good and the Tories will pay an electoral price for that IMO.
Do you provide management services to the NHS by any chance?
That is why the voters do not trust the Tories on the NHS
But you are still peddling a giant lie. Using private providers is not the same as privatisation. Nobody is being charged. The service is still free at the point of use.
Mr. Owls, under Labour I was seen by a private hospital because the NHS couldn't see me in sufficient time. Should I have complained to my Labour MP about the evil privatisation?
Do you know how much that cost the NHS?
Have you seen the lucrative contracts the private providers were given?
Milburn thought it was a short term fix ( IMO he is the 3rd worst SoS in the last 32 years)
Couldnt see you in time? look at the position pre 1997 and Post 2010
That is why the voters do not trust the Tories on the NHS
Lansley (IMO the worst SoS in last 32 years) has broke in all senses of the word the NHS for good and the Tories will pay an electoral price for that IMO.
Do you provide management services to the NHS by any chance?
No I worked in it for 32 years, am passionate about it and people will lament its passing as set in train by the aforesaid SoS
Mr. Owls, under Labour I was seen by a private hospital because the NHS couldn't see me in sufficient time. Should I have complained to my Labour MP about the evil privatisation?
Do you know how much that cost the NHS?
Have you seen the lucrative contracts the private providers were given?
Milburn thought it was a short term fix ( IMO he is the 3rd worst SoS in the last 32 years)
Couldnt see you in time? look at the position pre 1997 and Post 2010
That is why the voters do not trust the Tories on the NHS
Lansley (IMO the worst SoS in last 32 years) has broke in all senses of the word the NHS for good and the Tories will pay an electoral price for that IMO.
Do you provide management services to the NHS by any chance?
No I worked in it for 32 years, am passionate about it and people will lament its passing as set in train by the aforesaid SoS
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
As health is already devolved and its finance already inside the Barnett formulae, I do not agree with the premis in the question posed by the poll.
Is this then not a question of a poll actually massaging opinion rather than testing it? Call me an old cynic but I think there is a bit too much of that. And being doubly cynical is this why wealthy people or other self interested organisations commission independent polls?
But you are still peddling a giant lie. Using private providers is not the same as privatisation. Nobody is being charged. The service is still free at the point of use.
Technically I think using privatisation refers to who provides the service, not who pays for it. If you have a bunch of private providers providing the service but the state pays the bill, that's still privatisation, and in the opposite direction you could have a completely public, nationalized service but still charge people for it at the point of use, like the UK used to do with the phone service.
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
That is why the voters do not trust the Tories on the NHS
But you are still peddling a giant lie. Using private providers is not the same as privatisation. Nobody is being charged. The service is still free at the point of use.
Technically I think using privatisation refers to who provides the service, not who pays for it. If you have a bunch of private providers providing the service but the state pays the bill, that's still privatisation, and in the opposite direction you could have a completely public, nationalized service but still charge people for it at the point of use, like the UK used to do with the phone service.
The majority of people experience the NHS through their GP and have no issues with that privatized service, in fact most defend their GP to the hilt. Truth be told if they're not signing a cheque for the service they don't care.
How can 'Don't Knows' split in any direction if they...er, don't know?
I believe it's what historically happens, when they finally do decide.
Unfortunately for BT so far it has been the opposite, but unionists can keep up the wishful thinking.
Doesn't the ICM poll say undecideds will break 2:1 for No?
Rob, it does but reality to date has shown the opposite so I wonder why that has changed. For me reality trumps conjecture.
Do you have any evidence to support that?
Well since direction has been to YES it seems fairly simple. I reckon more DK's will have done that than NO's. However I am not going to trawl the web to get you evidence, you can believe it or not.
PS , it was in this which you may be able to find. A new study (as opposed to a conventional poll) conducted by the Economic and Social Research Council has been reported by the Scotsman
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is why the voters do not trust the Tories on the NHS
But you are still peddling a giant lie. Using private providers is not the same as privatisation. Nobody is being charged. The service is still free at the point of use.
Technically I think using privatisation refers to who provides the service, not who pays for it. If you have a bunch of private providers providing the service but the state pays the bill, that's still privatisation, and in the opposite direction you could have a completely public, nationalized service but still charge people for it at the point of use, like the UK used to do with the phone service.
The majority of people experience the NHS through their GP and have no issues with that privatized service, in fact most defend their GP to the hilt. Truth be told if they're not signing a cheque for the service they don't care.
That sounds plausible. I think the problem here is that the people who want to privatise the NHS will never admit that's what they're doing, so privatisation never actually gets defended as a concept, and polls badly as a result. Then the worse it polls, the more scared the privatisers get to defend privatisation...
How can 'Don't Knows' split in any direction if they...er, don't know?
I believe it's what historically happens, when they finally do decide.
Unfortunately for BT so far it has been the opposite, but unionists can keep up the wishful thinking.
Doesn't the ICM poll say undecideds will break 2:1 for No?
Rob, it does but reality to date has shown the opposite so I wonder why that has changed. For me reality trumps conjecture.
Your reality or real reality?
It was in this, I refuse to search that well known unionist organ the Scotsman however. A new study (as opposed to a conventional poll) conducted by the Economic and Social Research Council has been reported by the Scotsman
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
Do you expect the 2015 Labour Manifesto to commit that there will be no more cataract operations funded by the NHS but performed by a private sector provider?
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is just anecdotal bollocks, what you would expect from some numpty in the Orange Order or the armed forces and far from the reality on the streets.
"As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector."
I absolutely agree and I use the NHS more than most. My GP is a private contractor, most GPs are and always have been. The point of the NHS is that it provides treatment based on need and it is free at the pint of use. How it is organised is not something that worries me.
FoxinSox, medicus of this parish, occasionally makes the point that contracting out certain treatments (e.g joint replacements) to specialist units does harm the training of the surgeons of the future and takes away income from units in hospitals that still have to do the complex stuff. One has to assume he knows what he is talking about so that is an issue that needs to be addressed. However, I think that is a management problem which can be solved and doesn't require the old massive single provider. After all other countries seem to manage, France and Germany both seem to train decent clinicians.
With all respect to, Mr Owls, whenever there is a change in the public sector there are always screams of agony and protest from the people working in the affect department, there are always cries of it being the end of civilisation as we know it.
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
That's why there is no intent to fully privatize the NHS, there will always be space for the state to carry out activities such as those you quote.
A question I have asked previously of other people is this. If the NHS is such a good model why does nobody else copy it? Do you have an answer?
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
Do you expect the 2015 Labour Manifesto to commit that there will be no more cataract operations funded by the NHS but performed by a private sector provider?
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is just anecdotal bollocks, what you would expect from some numpty in the Orange Order or the armed forces and far from the reality on the streets.
Well of course its anecdotal, its people I've spoken to. None of those people as far as I'm aware are in either the Orange Order or have history in the military.
'the reality on the streets'. What? Do you live in the hood, down where its happening in the mean streets?
Perhaps Mr Owls is worried the new arrangements might affect his ker-ching public sector pension deal.
Already got that thanks but nowhere near as lucrative as your hourly rate.
Do prople know they are paying those rates for you to post on PB whilst "working" for them
So you did work in management? A role that could, some would say should, have been done by the private sector?
The usual argument against this is that the provider makes a profit, but strangely nobody seems to think the NHS should make its own bandages, generate it's own electricity or build its own ambulances all activities that make a profit from the NHS.
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is just anecdotal bollocks, what you would expect from some numpty in the Orange Order or the armed forces and far from the reality on the streets.
Well of course its anecdotal, its people I've spoken to. None of those people as far as I'm aware are in either the Orange Order or have history in the military.
'the reality on the streets'. What? Do you live in the hood, down where its happening in the mean streets?
That gave me a laugh, thanks for that.
You are welcome, there is a lot of information on what is happening without having to be physically on every street corner. One just needs to look.
You can read hundreds of personal stories of people deciding on YES daily , whereas if you look at NO it is only failed luvvies, businessmen looking for gongs and idiots like Abbot, Obama etc trying to help their pals the tories. There is no narrative to promote staying in the union , it is 100% negative. It is a case of Hope or NO hope.
PS:I live in a lovely detached house overlooking countryside.
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
Do you expect the 2015 Labour Manifesto to commit that there will be no more cataract operations funded by the NHS but performed by a private sector provider?
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is just anecdotal bollocks, what you would expect from some numpty in the Orange Order or the armed forces and far from the reality on the streets.
Well of course its anecdotal, its people I've spoken to. None of those people as far as I'm aware are in either the Orange Order or have history in the military.
'the reality on the streets'. What? Do you live in the hood, down where its happening in the mean streets?
That gave me a laugh, thanks for that.
By the way , your posts on wars and situations in far flung corners of the world are excellent , so you are allowed one dodgy post.
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is just anecdotal bollocks, what you would expect from some numpty in the Orange Order or the armed forces and far from the reality on the streets.
Well of course its anecdotal, its people I've spoken to. None of those people as far as I'm aware are in either the Orange Order or have history in the military.
'the reality on the streets'. What? Do you live in the hood, down where its happening in the mean streets?
That gave me a laugh, thanks for that.
By the way , your posts on wars and situations in far flung corners of the world are excellent , so you are allowed one dodgy post.
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
That's why there is no intent to fully privatize the NHS, there will always be space for the state to carry out activities such as those you quote.
A question I have asked previously of other people is this. If the NHS is such a good model why does nobody else copy it? Do you have an answer?
An NHS hospital cannot survive financially if private providers are given all the easy to do well remunerated under PbR or under a "specially generous arrangement"services (Such as Cateracts).
The private provider will not bid to run A&E as this is generally loss making.
So if you want your local viable hospital to survive part privatisation will not do the trick
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is just anecdotal bollocks, what you would expect from some numpty in the Orange Order or the armed forces and far from the reality on the streets.
Well of course its anecdotal, its people I've spoken to. None of those people as far as I'm aware are in either the Orange Order or have history in the military.
'the reality on the streets'. What? Do you live in the hood, down where its happening in the mean streets?
That gave me a laugh, thanks for that.
By the way , your posts on wars and situations in far flung corners of the world are excellent , so you are allowed one dodgy post.
Well, we can't say you aren't generous! ;-)
Rob, I am a gentleman and a scholar, you would enjoy a pint with me.
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is just anecdotal bollocks, what you would expect from some numpty in the Orange Order or the armed forces and far from the reality on the streets.
Well of course its anecdotal, its people I've spoken to. None of those people as far as I'm aware are in either the Orange Order or have history in the military.
'the reality on the streets'. What? Do you live in the hood, down where its happening in the mean streets?
That gave me a laugh, thanks for that.
You are welcome, there is a lot of information on what is happening without having to be physically on every street corner. One just needs to look.
You can read hundreds of personal stories of people deciding on YES daily , whereas if you look at NO it is only failed luvvies, businessmen looking for gongs and idiots like Abbot, Obama etc trying to help their pals the tories. There is no narrative to promote staying in the union , it is 100% negative. It is a case of Hope or NO hope.
PS:I live in a lovely detached house overlooking countryside.
Next thing you will be telling is is that James Kelly has only just decided to vote yes
Very interesting. BetVictor? To be critical: you are rather preaching to the choir; and how do the traders get on with other firms if the public cannot?
Traders generally open accounts under pseudonyms, but there will usually be someone in the office who can get on with a bookmaker. Am I preaching to the choir? I don't think I've heard mention of the hypocrisy of encouraging bad gambling while advising responsible gambling before. But maybe!
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is just anecdotal bollocks, what you would expect from some numpty in the Orange Order or the armed forces and far from the reality on the streets.
Well of course its anecdotal, its people I've spoken to. None of those people as far as I'm aware are in either the Orange Order or have history in the military.
'the reality on the streets'. What? Do you live in the hood, down where its happening in the mean streets?
That gave me a laugh, thanks for that.
You are welcome, there is a lot of information on what is happening without having to be physically on every street corner. One just needs to look.
You can read hundreds of personal stories of people deciding on YES daily , whereas if you look at NO it is only failed luvvies, businessmen looking for gongs and idiots like Abbot, Obama etc trying to help their pals the tories. There is no narrative to promote staying in the union , it is 100% negative. It is a case of Hope or NO hope.
PS:I live in a lovely detached house overlooking countryside.
Next thing you will be telling is is that James Kelly has only just decided to vote yes
"The usual argument against this is that the provider makes a profit"
And allied to that, that people who work in private medicine are only in it for the money, whereas, of course, people who work in NHS are all angels who do it for the love of the job and work for subsistence wages.
Its all tosh. The aim of the NHS is universally accepted, how that aim is met has to change. We have a growing and ageing population, new medical treatments are being introduced all the time, the costs of providing treatment are ever increasing, the proportion of people paying in is decreasing. If we want to keep a first-world health service then how it is delivered must change - the single state provider model cannot do the job with the resources that can be provided.
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is just anecdotal bollocks, what you would expect from some numpty in the Orange Order or the armed forces and far from the reality on the streets.
Well of course its anecdotal, its people I've spoken to. None of those people as far as I'm aware are in either the Orange Order or have history in the military.
'the reality on the streets'. What? Do you live in the hood, down where its happening in the mean streets?
That gave me a laugh, thanks for that.
You are welcome, there is a lot of information on what is happening without having to be physically on every street corner. One just needs to look.
You can read hundreds of personal stories of people deciding on YES daily , whereas if you look at NO it is only failed luvvies, businessmen looking for gongs and idiots like Abbot, Obama etc trying to help their pals the tories. There is no narrative to promote staying in the union , it is 100% negative. It is a case of Hope or NO hope.
PS:I live in a lovely detached house overlooking countryside.
Next thing you will be telling is is that James Kelly has only just decided to vote yes
He is still deciding
One can imagine he will be all over the panelbase poll as the only tuth and light
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
That's why there is no intent to fully privatize the NHS, there will always be space for the state to carry out activities such as those you quote.
A question I have asked previously of other people is this. If the NHS is such a good model why does nobody else copy it? Do you have an answer?
An NHS hospital cannot survive financially if private providers are given all the easy to do well remunerated under PbR or under a "specially generous arrangement"services (Such as Cateracts).
The private provider will not bid to run A&E as this is generally loss making.
So if you want your local viable hospital to survive part privatisation will not do the trick
No answer why the NHS is not copied I see.
As for A and E surviving, it is a matter of changing the funding model. No private provider would provide the full range of military services, yet despite large parts of the military establishment being provided it still exists.
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
Do you expect the 2015 Labour Manifesto to commit that there will be no more cataract operations funded by the NHS but performed by a private sector provider?
Latest YouGov / Sunday Times results 15th August - Con 34%, Lab 38%, LD 7%, UKIP 13%; APP -24
Slight movement against the Tories in the supplementaries.
Todays YG LAB 347 CON 261 LD 16 Other 26 (ukpr)
Ed is Crap is PM
BJO,
Can I suggest you stop this? Everyone knows that UNS shows EICIPM for anything less than a few point Tory lead, so it doesn't add anything it to the debate.
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is just anecdotal bollocks, what you would expect from some numpty in the Orange Order or the armed forces and far from the reality on the streets.
Well of course its anecdotal, its people I've spoken to. None of those people as far as I'm aware are in either the Orange Order or have history in the military.
'the reality on the streets'. What? Do you live in the hood, down where its happening in the mean streets?
That gave me a laugh, thanks for that.
You are welcome, there is a lot of information on what is happening without having to be physically on every street corner. One just needs to look.
You can read hundreds of personal stories of people deciding on YES daily , whereas if you look at NO it is only failed luvvies, businessmen looking for gongs and idiots like Abbot, Obama etc trying to help their pals the tories. There is no narrative to promote staying in the union , it is 100% negative. It is a case of Hope or NO hope.
PS:I live in a lovely detached house overlooking countryside.
Next thing you will be telling is is that James Kelly has only just decided to vote yes
He is still deciding
One can imagine he will be all over the panelbase poll as the only tuth and light
One would expect him to accurately dissect both polls which appear to be good for YES. This is shown by the absence of crowing by the obnoxious BT types. Even they, expert liars that they are , cannot paint these as good for the NAY sayers.
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is just anecdotal bollocks, what you would expect from some numpty in the Orange Order or the armed forces and far from the reality on the streets.
Well of course its anecdotal, its people I've spoken to. None of those people as far as I'm aware are in either the Orange Order or have history in the military.
'the reality on the streets'. What? Do you live in the hood, down where its happening in the mean streets?
That gave me a laugh, thanks for that.
You are welcome, there is a lot of information on what is happening without having to be physically on every street corner. One just needs to look.
You can read hundreds of personal stories of people deciding on YES daily , whereas if you look at NO it is only failed luvvies, businessmen looking for gongs and idiots like Abbot, Obama etc trying to help their pals the tories. There is no narrative to promote staying in the union , it is 100% negative. It is a case of Hope or NO hope.
PS:I live in a lovely detached house overlooking countryside.
Next thing you will be telling is is that James Kelly has only just decided to vote yes
Does he actually have a vote? Doesn't he live overseas?
Only one month left of the world's most boring election campaign.
Go on Alan , tell us how you really feel about it
Well let's see
2011 campaign opens polls 60 no 40 yes
2and a half years of
Unionists: we're doomed, there'll be no money, the oil wells will dry up overnight, we'll have to barter with kidney beans and we'll have borders like East Germany
Nats: Hoots. Haggis. English bastards. Free money for all and everyone willgive us exactly what we demand because it's in their interest even though it isn't.
One month to go polls 60 No 40 Yes.
All this tells us is Eck has the nation building skills of Slobadan Milosevic.
I do loathe postal voting. I hope they don't make a difference, either way.
Edited extra bit: on currency union, a politician backtracking on that would find his career dangling from a lamp post.
Not keen on it either but going to use it this time as I will be busy on 18th packing my bucket and spade. TWO YES votes guaranteed.
Disappointed to hear that you are not part of the legendary fabulousity that is YES's GOTV effort.
Charles, I am just an interested bystander, however I do salute those who are tramping the streets, hopefully they will be rewarded for all their efforts.
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
Do you expect the 2015 Labour Manifesto to commit that there will be no more cataract operations funded by the NHS but performed by a private sector provider?
A scare story. Its not 1/7th annually its a sum cherry picked and amortized into the infinte future. The money has not been set aside, if it had been set aside this year then the NHS would collapse like a pack mof cards. Doctors public or private make mistakes. And I would have thought that private doctors/surgeons carry their own insurance and could/should be countersued buy the NHS.
Hip replacements are done 'privately' on the NHS (17% I read). I found a scare story by the Mail about one that was done wrong and the NHS refused liability. A terrible scandal under Cameron's evil government you might say - but the oeration was done in 2006.
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is just anecdotal bollocks, what you would expect from some numpty in the Orange Order or the armed forces and far from the reality on the streets.
Well of course its anecdotal, its people I've spoken to. None of those people as far as I'm aware are in either the Orange Order or have history in the military.
'the reality on the streets'. What? Do you live in the hood, down where its happening in the mean streets?
That gave me a laugh, thanks for that.
You are welcome, there is a lot of information on what is happening without having to be physically on every street corner. One just needs to look.
You can read hundreds of personal stories of people deciding on YES daily , whereas if you look at NO it is only failed luvvies, businessmen looking for gongs and idiots like Abbot, Obama etc trying to help their pals the tories. There is no narrative to promote staying in the union , it is 100% negative. It is a case of Hope or NO hope.
PS:I live in a lovely detached house overlooking countryside.
Next thing you will be telling is is that James Kelly has only just decided to vote yes
Does he actually have a vote? Doesn't he live overseas?
So as well as being stupid you cannot read either. He lives in the metropolis of Cumbernauld.
Only one month left of the world's most boring election campaign.
Go on Alan , tell us how you really feel about it
Well let's see
2011 campaign opens polls 60 no 40 yes
2and a half years of
Unionists: we're doomed, there'll be no money, the oil wells will dry up overnight, we'll have to barter with kidney beans and we'll have borders like East Germany
Nats: Hoots. Haggis. English bastards. Free money for all and everyone willgive us exactly what we demand because it's in their interest even though it isn't.
One month to go polls 60 No 40 Yes.
All this tells us is Eck has the nation building skills of Slobadan Milosevic.
Alan, you have the 60/40 bit wrong and you missed out the neeps and tatties. Also only Westminster has been criticised , not the English. 6 out of 10 must try harder next time.
But you are still peddling a giant lie. Using private providers is not the same as privatisation. Nobody is being charged. The service is still free at the point of use.
Technically I think using privatisation refers to who provides the service, not who pays for it. If you have a bunch of private providers providing the service but the state pays the bill, that's still privatisation, and in the opposite direction you could have a completely public, nationalized service but still charge people for it at the point of use, like the UK used to do with the phone service.
If you are going to get technical, it means taking something which is nationally owned and shifting it to private ownership.
Latest YouGov / Sunday Times results 15th August - Con 34%, Lab 38%, LD 7%, UKIP 13%; APP -24
Slight movement against the Tories in the supplementaries.
Todays YG LAB 347 CON 261 LD 16 Other 26 (ukpr)
Ed is Crap is PM
BJO,
Can I suggest you stop this? Everyone knows that UNS shows EICIPM for anything less than a few point Tory lead, so it doesn't add anything it to the debate.
I think it is very important to relay what the actual percentages relate to in a UNS. Keeps people up to date of where the figures actually are on each poll when we have so many different Labour leads.
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
And that's absolutely fine.
The private sector is better at sweating assets (increasing throughput) than the NHS. (I remember someone telling me how they had massively improved the throughout in a screening facility by taking away the free coffee and biscuits for patients).
So if they do the easy stuff, and they do them quickly and efficiently, then that frees up capacity in the NHS for the more complex operations.
Only one month left of the world's most boring election campaign.
Go on Alan , tell us how you really feel about it
Well let's see
2011 campaign opens polls 60 no 40 yes
2and a half years of
Unionists: we're doomed, there'll be no money, the oil wells will dry up overnight, we'll have to barter with kidney beans and we'll have borders like East Germany
Nats: Hoots. Haggis. English bastards. Free money for all and everyone willgive us exactly what we demand because it's in their interest even though it isn't.
One month to go polls 60 No 40 Yes.
All this tells us is Eck has the nation building skills of Slobadan Milosevic.
Alan, you have the 60/40 bit wrong and you missed out the neeps and tatties. Also only Westminster has been criticised , not the English. 6 out of 10 must try harder next time.
Also only Westminster has been criticised , not the English.
malc do you think anybody apart from yourself believes that crap ? It's dog whistling for the Neds; at least have the guts to recognise it as such. Next you'll be telling me the Tory bogeyman means only the Tories in Scotland and nowhere else.
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is just anecdotal bollocks, what you would expect from some numpty in the Orange Order or the armed forces and far from the reality on the streets.
Well of course its anecdotal, its people I've spoken to. None of those people as far as I'm aware are in either the Orange Order or have history in the military.
'the reality on the streets'. What? Do you live in the hood, down where its happening in the mean streets?
That gave me a laugh, thanks for that.
You are welcome, there is a lot of information on what is happening without having to be physically on every street corner. One just needs to look.
You can read hundreds of personal stories of people deciding on YES daily , whereas if you look at NO it is only failed luvvies, businessmen looking for gongs and idiots like Abbot, Obama etc trying to help their pals the tories. There is no narrative to promote staying in the union , it is 100% negative. It is a case of Hope or NO hope.
PS:I live in a lovely detached house overlooking countryside.
Next thing you will be telling is is that James Kelly has only just decided to vote yes
Does he actually have a vote? Doesn't he live overseas?
So as well as being stupid you cannot read either. He lives in the metropolis of Cumbernauld.
You appear to have the reading issues. This ? means I'm asking a question. Do you understand now? Note the ? at the end of the previous sentence.
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
That's why there is no intent to fully privatize the NHS, there will always be space for the state to carry out activities such as those you quote.
A question I have asked previously of other people is this. If the NHS is such a good model why does nobody else copy it? Do you have an answer?
Well now I must take the opposite side. Many countries have an 'NHS'. In places like France and Germany (and many more) its funded by compulsory insurance (ie a 'tax') on both workers and employers and overall control and standards are set by their governments and funds paid into it by their govts. In all respects it is is national health service like ours. Despite receiviong a large sum of money the French service has a deficit which has to be subsidised. Many French hospitals are public hospitals. The way these national health services are managed may be different but in broad terms they are free at the point of service. The point is that these national health services do not have hang ups about using private hospitals. And as I have pointed out earlier, if you look at Labour's manifesto for 2010 - they do not have such hang ups either.
Thought it was protocol for foreign leaders not to publicly get involved with democratic elections.Abbott obviously does not agree. Seems like many of these ex colonial state current leaders are worried that the Scottish ple people might take the step to independence.
However looks the scare stories will win the day.
Even with the comfort blanket of the SNP offering to keep birth rights for the head of state.
Latest YouGov / Sunday Times results 15th August - Con 34%, Lab 38%, LD 7%, UKIP 13%; APP -24
Slight movement against the Tories in the supplementaries.
Todays YG LAB 347 CON 261 LD 16 Other 26 (ukpr)
Ed is Crap is PM
BJO,
Can I suggest you stop this? Everyone knows that UNS shows EICIPM for anything less than a few point Tory lead, so it doesn't add anything it to the debate.
I think it is very important to relay what the actual percentages relate to in a UNS. Keeps people up to date of where the figures actually are on each poll when we have so many different Labour leads.
Not really. UNS says UKIP would get no seats with 21% of the vote... You might as well just make up the numbers
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
And that's absolutely fine.
The private sector is better at sweating assets (increasing throughput) than the NHS. (I remember someone telling me how they had massively improved the throughout in a screening facility by taking away the free coffee and biscuits for patients).
So if they do the easy stuff, and they do them quickly and efficiently, then that frees up capacity in the NHS for the more complex operations.
Do you think it is right that companies that can win these NHS contracts should be allowed to pump millions into a political party. Is that not just buying the contracts? (MODS, I haven't mentioned who or which party, surely you wont pull the post again).
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
That's why there is no intent to fully privatize the NHS, there will always be space for the state to carry out activities such as those you quote.
A question I have asked previously of other people is this. If the NHS is such a good model why does nobody else copy it? Do you have an answer?
Well now I must take the opposite side. Many countries have an 'NHS'. In places like France and Germany (and many more) its funded by compulsory insurance (ie a 'tax') on both workers and employers and overall control and standards are set by their governments and funds paid into it by their govts. In all respects it is is national health service like ours. Despite receiviong a large sum of money the French service has a deficit which has to be subsidised. Many French hospitals are public hospitals. The way these national health services are managed may be different but in broad terms they are free at the point of service. The point is that these national health services do not have hang ups about using private hospitals. And as I have pointed out earlier, if you look at Labour's manifesto for 2010 - they do not have such hang ups either.
So not the NHS then, more like what we are moving to in the face of massive opposition.
How can 'Don't Knows' split in any direction if they...er, don't know?
I believe it's what historically happens, when they finally do decide.
If they finally do decide. But I am sorry if I did not make myself clear - how can 'don't knows' BE split if they... don't know? If they don't know then they don't know and prodding them is meaningless.
I've seen little reflection on motivation and potential turnout when it comes to this referendum. Surely thats critical now though a No vote still looks likely.
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
That is just anecdotal bollocks, what you would expect from some numpty in the Orange Order or the armed forces and far from the reality on the streets.
Well of course its anecdotal, its people I've spoken to. None of those people as far as I'm aware are in either the Orange Order or have history in the military.
'the reality on the streets'. What? Do you live in the hood, down where its happening in the mean streets?
That gave me a laugh, thanks for that.
You are welcome, there is a lot of information on what is happening without having to be physically on every street corner. One just needs to look.
You can read hundreds of personal stories of people deciding on YES daily , whereas if you look at NO it is only failed luvvies, businessmen looking for gongs and idiots like Abbot, Obama etc trying to help their pals the tories. There is no narrative to promote staying in the union , it is 100% negative. It is a case of Hope or NO hope.
PS:I live in a lovely detached house overlooking countryside.
Next thing you will be telling is is that James Kelly has only just decided to vote yes
Does he actually have a vote? Doesn't he live overseas?
So as well as being stupid you cannot read either. He lives in the metropolis of Cumbernauld.
You appear to have the reading issues. This ? means I'm asking a question. Do you understand now? Note the ? at the end of the previous sentence.
The individual you refer to is an American citizen of mixed French Canadian and Southern Irish heritage, you are perfectly correct in saying he lives overseas while he squats in Cumbernauld.
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
And that's absolutely fine.
The private sector is better at sweating assets (increasing throughput) than the NHS. (I remember someone telling me how they had massively improved the throughout in a screening facility by taking away the free coffee and biscuits for patients).
So if they do the easy stuff, and they do them quickly and efficiently, then that frees up capacity in the NHS for the more complex operations.
Do you think it is right that companies that can win these NHS contracts should be allowed to pump millions into a political party. Is that not just buying the contracts? (MODS, I haven't mentioned who or which party, surely you wont pull the post again).
Let's ask you the same question that BigJohnOwls is unable to answer (so far): will the 2015 Labour Manifesto commit to end NHS funding of clinical services provided by private companies?
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
And that's absolutely fine.
The private sector is better at sweating assets (increasing throughput) than the NHS. (I remember someone telling me how they had massively improved the throughout in a screening facility by taking away the free coffee and biscuits for patients).
So if they do the easy stuff, and they do them quickly and efficiently, then that frees up capacity in the NHS for the more complex operations.
Do you think it is right that companies that can win these NHS contracts should be allowed to pump millions into a political party. Is that not just buying the contracts? (MODS, I haven't mentioned who or which party, surely you wont pull the post again).
Do you think it's right unions should fund Labour?
Was the advanced notice letter in an envelope sealed with a kiss my Gove? "One school was even able to draft in teachers who had never previously taught there to perform in front of inspectors, according to whistleblowers."
Unionists: we're doomed, there'll be no money, the oil wells will dry up overnight, we'll have to barter with kidney beans and we'll have borders like East Germany
They might have had something worth trading if only the privatized NHS hadn't nicked their kidneys...
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
And that's absolutely fine.
The private sector is better at sweating assets (increasing throughput) than the NHS. (I remember someone telling me how they had massively improved the throughout in a screening facility by taking away the free coffee and biscuits for patients).
So if they do the easy stuff, and they do them quickly and efficiently, then that frees up capacity in the NHS for the more complex operations.
Do you think it is right that companies that can win these NHS contracts should be allowed to pump millions into a political party. Is that not just buying the contracts? (MODS, I haven't mentioned who or which party, surely you wont pull the post again).
Do you think it's right unions should fund Labour?
If in power the government were giving out multi-million pound contracts to the unions to run hospitals, which in turn would mean a huge profit on the unions initial outlay, no.
Mr. Owls, under Labour I was seen by a private hospital because the NHS couldn't see me in sufficient time. Should I have complained to my Labour MP about the evil privatisation?
Do you know how much that cost the NHS?
Have you seen the lucrative contracts the private providers were given?
Milburn thought it was a short term fix ( IMO he is the 3rd worst SoS in the last 32 years)
Couldnt see you in time? look at the position pre 1997 and Post 2010
That is why the voters do not trust the Tories on the NHS
Lansley (IMO the worst SoS in last 32 years) has broke in all senses of the word the NHS for good and the Tories will pay an electoral price for that IMO.
Do you provide management services to the NHS by any chance?
No I worked in it for 32 years, am passionate about it and people will lament its passing as set in train by the aforesaid SoS
Labour's 2010 manifesto promised the increased use of private medicine in the NHS. Even in Labour's 13 wasted years private medicine was used by the NHS. The NHS is going to remain. Its scaremongering to say otherwise. It needs to manage its resources efficiently. Labour promised a 20 billion efficiency drive in 2010, 20 billion of savings over 4 years. This govt is carrying that out. I wonder why if Brown thought there was 20 billion of slack in the NHS why he spent that money in the first place. Brown caused the NHS problems by hosepiping money at it for political purposes - he did not care if it was wasted.
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
And that's absolutely fine.
The private sector is better at sweating assets (increasing throughput) than the NHS. (I remember someone telling me how they had massively improved the throughout in a screening facility by taking away the free coffee and biscuits for patients).
So if they do the easy stuff, and they do them quickly and efficiently, then that frees up capacity in the NHS for the more complex operations.
Do you think it is right that companies that can win these NHS contracts should be allowed to pump millions into a political party. Is that not just buying the contracts? (MODS, I haven't mentioned who or which party, surely you wont pull the post again).
Let's ask you the same question that BigJohnOwls is unable to answer (so far): will the 2015 Labour Manifesto commit to end NHS funding of clinical services provided by private companies?
I don't think it will. I am asking is it right that those companies tendering for these NHS contracts should be allowed to fund any political party?
@blairmcdougall: ICM #indyref poll. 10pt NO lead. Undecideds leaning No by ratio of 2:1. 52% say Salmond currency plan not credible. http://t.co/VXizky1885
On the NHS, Had quite serious back issues. Saw my GP who sent me for an MRI scan, which identified the problem. Was referred for surgery which was fully successful. All of the above was paid for by the NHS, all of it was carried out by privatised providers. My GP, the scan and the surgery, all privatised, all excellent and all carried out within six weeks. More privatization of none emergency care would suit me down to the ground.
For the past 2 months I’ve been acting as chauffeur to an elderly neighbour while he underwent cataract surgery on both eyes. Despite being on the NHS, all of the consultancy, op and post op treatment was successfully carried out by a local private Hospital.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
Cateracts are the number 1 cherry picked service.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
And that's absolutely fine.
The private sector is better at sweating assets (increasing throughput) than the NHS. (I remember someone telling me how they had massively improved the throughout in a screening facility by taking away the free coffee and biscuits for patients).
So if they do the easy stuff, and they do them quickly and efficiently, then that frees up capacity in the NHS for the more complex operations.
Do you think it is right that companies that can win these NHS contracts should be allowed to pump millions into a political party. Is that not just buying the contracts? (MODS, I haven't mentioned who or which party, surely you wont pull the post again).
Do you think it's right unions should fund Labour?
If in power the government were giving out multi-million pound contracts to the unions to run hospitals, which in turn would mean a huge profit on the unions initial outlay, no.
So all the cash from the public service unions given to Labour during their last term of office should be refunded?
Comments
Do you know how much that cost the NHS?
Have you seen the lucrative contracts the private providers were given?
Milburn thought it was a short term fix ( IMO he is the 3rd worst SoS in the last 32 years)
Couldnt see you in time? look at the position pre 1997 and Post 2010
That is why the voters do not trust the Tories on the NHS
Lansley (IMO the worst SoS in last 32 years) has broke in all senses of the word the NHS for good and the Tories will pay an electoral price for that IMO.
''In health, this means if we don’t meet our guarantees, for example on waiting lists, the NHS will fund you to go private.''
''Foundation Trusts will be given the freedom to expand their provision into primary and community care, and to increase their private services ''
''We will support an active role for the independent sector working alongside the NHS
in the provision of care''
BTW - for those peddling Labours 'cost of living' line labour also promised ''action to control public-sector pay including a one per cent cap on basic pay uplifts for 2011-12 and 2012-13, saving £3.4 billion a year ''
Mr. Owls, thankfully I haven't been especially ill since 2010, nor prior to 1997.
Primarily, it is the process of transferring a business, enterprise, agency, public service, or public property from the public sector (a government) to the private sector, to a business that operates for a profit.
That is the definition that will cost the Tories votes IMO
But you are still peddling a giant lie. Using private providers is not the same as privatisation. Nobody is being charged. The service is still free at the point of use.
As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector.
ps No shed , just use the garage as a big substitute.
Perhaps Mr Owls is worried the new arrangements might affect his ker-ching public sector pension deal.
Try getting a hip operation carried out on someone with complex comorbidities at the local private hospital
Especially if you don't like them
PS , it was in this which you may be able to find. A new study (as opposed to a conventional poll) conducted by the Economic and Social Research Council has been reported by the Scotsman
Do prople know they are paying those rates for you to post on PB whilst "working" for them
I spoke to a few Scottish people most of whom were pro-Union (PS they all live in Scotland) and I took few things from it:
-The hostility to Salmond as an individual and the view he was a total chancer (and not in a good way) seemed to be as strong as the opposition to independence
-I heard a similar sentiment expressed with consistency, that they feel some people are saying yes to independence with the idea that 'its a bit of a laugh'.
Maybe, but the real reason labour is objecting is that privatisation sounds to their core vote that they will soon be charged.
It's a mendacious and cynical scare tactic.
A new study (as opposed to a conventional poll) conducted by the Economic and Social Research Council has been reported by the Scotsman
"As long as the treatment remains free at the point of use, I really don’t see what the problem is with outsourcing to the private sector."
I absolutely agree and I use the NHS more than most. My GP is a private contractor, most GPs are and always have been. The point of the NHS is that it provides treatment based on need and it is free at the pint of use. How it is organised is not something that worries me.
FoxinSox, medicus of this parish, occasionally makes the point that contracting out certain treatments (e.g joint replacements) to specialist units does harm the training of the surgeons of the future and takes away income from units in hospitals that still have to do the complex stuff. One has to assume he knows what he is talking about so that is an issue that needs to be addressed. However, I think that is a management problem which can be solved and doesn't require the old massive single provider. After all other countries seem to manage, France and Germany both seem to train decent clinicians.
With all respect to, Mr Owls, whenever there is a change in the public sector there are always screams of agony and protest from the people working in the affect department, there are always cries of it being the end of civilisation as we know it.
A question I have asked previously of other people is this. If the NHS is such a good model why does nobody else copy it? Do you have an answer?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2725533/NHS-faces-huge-compensation-bill-dozens-patients-left-sight-problems-hired-private-firm-complete-cataract-surgery.html
'the reality on the streets'. What? Do you live in the hood, down where its happening in the mean streets?
That gave me a laugh, thanks for that.
The usual argument against this is that the provider makes a profit, but strangely nobody seems to think the NHS should make its own bandages, generate it's own electricity or build its own ambulances all activities that make a profit from the NHS.
You can read hundreds of personal stories of people deciding on YES daily , whereas if you look at NO it is only failed luvvies, businessmen looking for gongs and idiots like Abbot, Obama etc trying to help their pals the tories.
There is no narrative to promote staying in the union , it is 100% negative.
It is a case of Hope or NO hope.
PS:I live in a lovely detached house overlooking countryside.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2307196/NHS-faces-17-5bn-payout-treatment-bungles-One-seventh-annual-budget-set-aside-following-avalanche-claims.html
The private provider will not bid to run A&E as this is generally loss making.
So if you want your local viable hospital to survive part privatisation will not do the trick
1.Undeciders are starting to decide.
2.NO is getting closer to the finish line.
"The usual argument against this is that the provider makes a profit"
And allied to that, that people who work in private medicine are only in it for the money, whereas, of course, people who work in NHS are all angels who do it for the love of the job and work for subsistence wages.
Its all tosh. The aim of the NHS is universally accepted, how that aim is met has to change. We have a growing and ageing population, new medical treatments are being introduced all the time, the costs of providing treatment are ever increasing, the proportion of people paying in is decreasing. If we want to keep a first-world health service then how it is delivered must change - the single state provider model cannot do the job with the resources that can be provided.
As for A and E surviving, it is a matter of changing the funding model. No private provider would provide the full range of military services, yet despite large parts of the military establishment being provided it still exists.
Can I suggest you stop this? Everyone knows that UNS shows EICIPM for anything less than a few point Tory lead, so it doesn't add anything it to the debate.
2011 campaign opens polls 60 no 40 yes
2and a half years of
Unionists: we're doomed, there'll be no money, the oil wells will dry up overnight, we'll have to barter with kidney beans and we'll have borders like East Germany
Nats: Hoots. Haggis. English bastards. Free money for all and everyone willgive us exactly what we demand because it's in their interest even though it isn't.
One month to go polls 60 No 40 Yes.
All this tells us is Eck has the nation building skills of Slobadan Milosevic.
Doctors public or private make mistakes. And I would have thought that private doctors/surgeons carry their own insurance and could/should be countersued buy the NHS.
Hip replacements are done 'privately' on the NHS (17% I read). I found a scare story by the Mail about one that was done wrong and the NHS refused liability. A terrible scandal under Cameron's evil government you might say - but the oeration was done in 2006.
For me, the National Health Service is about the government guaranteeing healthcare free at the point of need.
That's what's important, not whether it is a government nurse or a Boots nurse holding the syringe
6 out of 10 must try harder next time.
Outsourcing doesn't come close to "privatization"
The private sector is better at sweating assets (increasing throughput) than the NHS. (I remember someone telling me how they had massively improved the throughout in a screening facility by taking away the free coffee and biscuits for patients).
So if they do the easy stuff, and they do them quickly and efficiently, then that frees up capacity in the NHS for the more complex operations.
malc do you think anybody apart from yourself believes that crap ? It's dog whistling for the Neds; at least have the guts to recognise it as such. Next you'll be telling me the Tory bogeyman means only the Tories in Scotland and nowhere else.
Many countries have an 'NHS'. In places like France and Germany (and many more) its funded by compulsory insurance (ie a 'tax') on both workers and employers and overall control and standards are set by their governments and funds paid into it by their govts. In all respects it is is national health service like ours. Despite receiviong a large sum of money the French service has a deficit which has to be subsidised. Many French hospitals are public hospitals.
The way these national health services are managed may be different but in broad terms they are free at the point of service. The point is that these national health services do not have hang ups about using private hospitals. And as I have pointed out earlier, if you look at Labour's manifesto for 2010 - they do not have such hang ups either.
elections.Abbott obviously does not agree.
Seems like many of these ex colonial state current leaders are worried that the Scottish ple
people might take the step to independence.
However looks the scare stories will win the day.
Even with the comfort blanket of the SNP offering to keep birth rights for the head of state.
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/aug/17/academies-run-superhead-advance-notice-ofsted-checks
The NHS is going to remain. Its scaremongering to say otherwise. It needs to manage its resources efficiently.
Labour promised a 20 billion efficiency drive in 2010, 20 billion of savings over 4 years. This govt is carrying that out. I wonder why if Brown thought there was 20 billion of slack in the NHS why he spent that money in the first place. Brown caused the NHS problems by hosepiping money at it for political purposes - he did not care if it was wasted.