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  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    O/T

    Has Shadsy's bonus gone up in smoke?

    This morning The Daily Telegraph reported that:

    " Not much of a Glorious Twelfth for Richard Glynn at Ladbrokes. The chief executive was shooting for interims that proved his turnaround plans were paying off but today's results - which show first half pre-tax profits have halved - could put him in the firing line instead. The bookmaker has reported pre-tax profits of £27.7m, down from £55.1m last year, despite insisting that it had a "good World Cup." The bookmaker had warned that its interim results would miss their targets after a digital overhaul at the business which took longer than expected to implement. Today Ladbrokes has said that the focus on operational improvements meant that "financial performance would inevitably lag behind."

    The Magic Sign is on the point of being overtaken in terms of market capitalisation by Betfair - who'd have thought that was possible even a couple of years ago?

    Maybe Shadsy should move to Betfair and show them how to offer a decent range of political markets.

    Maybe he should apply for a promotion ;)
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Pulpstar said:

    Journalist of the year award ?

    Medyan Dairieh has gone and embedded himself with ISIS - www.vicenews.com is releasing the documentary in 5 parts it seems.

    I won't link here as there are gruesome images in the videos, but bloody hell give that man a medal for embedding himself with those psychos. Whatever he's earnt from doing this it isn't enough.

    He may not get home alive if ISIS find out that he's making a a 5 part documentary without their express approval. And if they have approved it, it's probably 99% propaganda and not worth seeing.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 5m
    Pilot killed & Yazidi MP Vian Dakhil injured in Mount Sinjar helicopter crash, #Iraq military says http://bbc.in/1sUgMhG
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,985
    @Sunil_Prasannan‌ great. If that was what you chose to do, for whatever reason, and if it worked out for you, then why be apologetic? I always advise my students to take subjects they believe will (1) help them in their intended career or (b) will enjoy or ideally (c) both. And I would be the first to concede that a good scientist has much better employment prospects than an historian - if I had done physics (which I could) I doubt if I would have had three years out of work after leaving university. I have even advised a perfectly capable student not to take GCSE history because I knew she simply wouldn't enjoy it and it would have no bearing on her intended career as a nurse. At the same time, I will take those who are not particularly bright with the greatest pleasure if they enjoy the subject.

    What narked me was the suggestion that somehow history teachers are to blame because not every child is taking history. It's an option, therefore almost by definition not every child will take it. If that's the politicians' attitude, why don't the silly *redacted word of an Anglo-Saxon nature* make it compulsory?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    MikeK said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Journalist of the year award ?

    Medyan Dairieh has gone and embedded himself with ISIS - www.vicenews.com is releasing the documentary in 5 parts it seems.

    I won't link here as there are gruesome images in the videos, but bloody hell give that man a medal for embedding himself with those psychos. Whatever he's earnt from doing this it isn't enough.

    He may not get home alive if ISIS find out that he's making a a 5 part documentary without their express approval. And if they have approved it, it's probably 99% propaganda and not worth seeing.
    I don't know if they've approved it, but having seen a bit it sure as hell ain't propaganda. At least not pro-ISIS propaganda.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Pulpstar said:

    Journalist of the year award ?

    Medyan Dairieh has gone and embedded himself with ISIS - www.vicenews.com is releasing the documentary in 5 parts it seems.

    I won't link here as there are gruesome images in the videos, but bloody hell give that man a medal for embedding himself with those psychos. Whatever he's earnt from doing this it isn't enough.

    Definitely journalism at its finest. Sadly not all journos are willing to go quite that far for a story:

    "No-one in Lincolnshire has so far had to be tested for Ebola, officials have revealed.

    Bosses at United Lincolnshire Hospitals NHS Trust say they have so far not been informed of any tests taking place in the county.

    Read more at http://www.lincolnshireecho.co.uk/Ebola-outbreak-tested-Lincolnshire-deadly-virus/story-22300278-detail/story.html#MlmEGtbsEGpFvCt6.99"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,462
    MikeK said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Journalist of the year award ?

    Medyan Dairieh has gone and embedded himself with ISIS - www.vicenews.com is releasing the documentary in 5 parts it seems.

    I won't link here as there are gruesome images in the videos, but bloody hell give that man a medal for embedding himself with those psychos. Whatever he's earnt from doing this it isn't enough.

    He may not get home alive if ISIS find out that he's making a a 5 part documentary without their express approval. And if they have approved it, it's probably 99% propaganda and not worth seeing.
    He'll have just shot raw footage whilst being there. He'd be outside the IS to edit it.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,799
    edited August 2014
    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Journalist of the year award ?

    Medyan Dairieh has gone and embedded himself with ISIS - www.vicenews.com is releasing the documentary in 5 parts it seems.

    I won't link here as there are gruesome images in the videos, but bloody hell give that man a medal for embedding himself with those psychos. Whatever he's earnt from doing this it isn't enough.

    Definitely journalism at its finest. Sadly not all journos are willing to go quite that far for a story:

    "No-one in Lincolnshire has so far had to be tested for Ebola, officials have revealed.

    Bosses at United Lincolnshire Hospitals NHS Trust say they have so far not been informed of any tests taking place in the county.

    Read more at http://www.lincolnshireecho.co.uk/Ebola-outbreak-tested-Lincolnshire-deadly-virus/story-22300278-detail/story.html#MlmEGtbsEGpFvCt6.99"
    Not even with all those immigrants in Boston? I wonder who asked!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,603
    TGOHF said:

    MikeK said:

    taffys said:

    ''guess what no one took a blind bit of notice or screamed racism.'

    Fair enough, point taken, but 2008 was six years ago, Mr Mike K.

    I couldn't find anything on UKIP's website on what official policy is now, however, on Gaza/Syria/Iraq etc. Or even on ISIS flags in Poplar. Or on arming kurds etc.

    These people are foreign and far worse dusky skinned. UKIPs standing policy on this is to have a 3 minute hate every day.
    Another left wing nutter joins PB!
    Says the chap campaigning hard to ensure Ed Miliband is PM..
    Politics is not a binary option. 30-35% of voters don't want to vote for either the Conservatives or Labour, and so vote for other parties.

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @ydoethur

    Good to see you around here today and thank for some very interesting posts. It is nice to get the view of a professional talking professionally rather than trying to make political statements.

    May I say it would be nice to hear a bit more from you on here. There are quite often discussions about historical topics and I am sure you could contribute a lot even if they weren't about your period. Of course, if you were a classicist historian that would be even better because then you could give young Morris Dancer a ding around the ear and tell him once and for all Hannibal lost, therefore Hannibal was a loser. Would save a lot of band width.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,005
    edited August 2014
    Mr. Llama, such a scurrilous slur against my good name.

    I hope you've acquired TA Dodge's excellent history of Hannibal, though I can only assume you haven't read it, judging by your continuing silly view of his phenomenal capabilities as a general.

    Edited extra bit: a serious note: if anyone is thinking of buying the history, please try and make sure you get a proper, unabridged version. It seems some shorter ones, which are not labelled abridged, have been released. I think it's 700-800 pages or so (if necessary I can check my own copy, but I'm reasonably sure that's broadly correct). Likewise for Dodge's Caesar and Alexander biographies, which are also well worth getting.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,985
    @HurstLlama‌ Thank you for your kind remarks. Sadly, as a teacher I am very busy all the time and therefore I don't have a lot of time to check PB threads! Even at the height of the holidays, I am doing paperwork, clearing out my classroom, coming up with new resources and sorting my schemes of work for the next year (and moving house at the moment, but that's not really part of the job).

    I would like to meet these secondary school teachers that only work 55 hours a week. My working week is a lot nearer 70 hours. I'm guessing it's dragged down by part time and PE staff (who don't have so much marking to worry about).

    It should also be pointed out that in the past I have refrained from criticising Morris Dancer over Hannibal, as I personally think his defeat had a lot more to do with the political situation in Carthage than his being a 'loser'. You may remember that I went on not so long ago about Napoleon and Montgomery - I think we agreed to differ over the latter.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,005
    Mr. Ydoethur, I agree completely. The lesson of the Second Punic War was the importance of a sound political structure. Rome's was unbreakable, Carthage's was fragile in the extreme.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    edited August 2014
    MikeK said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Journalist of the year award ?

    Medyan Dairieh has gone and embedded himself with ISIS - www.vicenews.com is releasing the documentary in 5 parts it seems.

    I won't link here as there are gruesome images in the videos, but bloody hell give that man a medal for embedding himself with those psychos. Whatever he's earnt from doing this it isn't enough.

    He may not get home alive if ISIS find out that he's making a a 5 part documentary without their express approval. And if they have approved it, it's probably 99% propaganda and not worth seeing.

    It's approved. He's being taken around by their press officer.

    edit: them having a press officer is quite mind-bending in itself

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,067
    edited August 2014

    Mr. Ydoethur, I agree completely. The lesson of the Second Punic War was the importance of a sound political structure. Rome's was unbreakable, Carthage's was fragile in the extreme.

    Brilliant generals are given complete control to ensure victory, such as Eisenhower being made Supreme Allied Commander for Overlord, and Caesar being appointed dictator perpetuo.

    Inept generals aren't given such powers because everyone knows it will lead to terrible defeat because of their ineptness, hence Carthage giving Hannibal no equivalent powers.

  • Vox populi, vox Dei

    A majority of British voters believe Israel acted in a disproportionate manner during the recent Gaza conflict, according to the latest Guardian/ICM poll, which lends support to the arguments that persuaded Lady Warsi to resign from the government.

    Amid hopes that the month-long conflict between Israel and Hamas could be ending as a ceasefire continued to hold, the poll also found greater opposition to Israel than to the Palestinians.

    The poll found that 52% of voters believe Israel acted disproportionately when it responded to the firing of rockets by Hamas by launching air strikes against the Gaza Strip. It found that 19% thought Israel had acted proportionately while 29% of those polled did not know.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/12/uk-voters-israel-disproportionate-gaza-poll
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28754160

    "Experimental Ebola drugs" sounds the start of a horror film script.
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    Ishmael_X said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Ishmael_X
    Einstein was amazingly dumb?

    No. He also never said that (google for evidence that he did if you think otherwise), and would never have said anything as dumb as that, being as how he spent quite a lot of time thinking about randomness.

    God does not play dice.
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    TGOHF said:

    MikeK said:

    taffys said:

    ''guess what no one took a blind bit of notice or screamed racism.'

    Fair enough, point taken, but 2008 was six years ago, Mr Mike K.

    I couldn't find anything on UKIP's website on what official policy is now, however, on Gaza/Syria/Iraq etc. Or even on ISIS flags in Poplar. Or on arming kurds etc.

    These people are foreign and far worse dusky skinned. UKIPs standing policy on this is to have a 3 minute hate every day.
    Another left wing nutter joins PB!
    Says the chap campaigning hard to ensure Ed Miliband is PM..
    Splitters!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2014
    Hopefully Ebola will wipe out Boko Haram.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,985
    @TheScreamingEagles‌ The problem is those aren't exactly good examples, are they? Caesar wasn't given the title of 'Dictator for Life' to ensure a military victory, but because he had staged what amounted to a military coup. Eisenhower was a diplomat and administrator as much as a general, appointed to try and hold the warring factions aka the Allied Armies together and stop them fighting each other instead of the Germans, as with Foch in 1918.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,985
    Another example might be Lee - a remarkable general, kept on a tight leash by politicians who were rather afraid of him and his flamboyance. Meanwhile arguably the most useless generals of the whole war, McClellan and Burnside, were both given a great deal of free reign by Lincoln, who felt obliged to ask McClellan at one stage 'You complain in your last about fatigued horses. What have your horses done that would fatigue anything? If you don't want to use the army, I should like to borrow it for a while.'

    And completely OT, but final thought before I have to disappear - on the subject of military despatches and supreme commanders, arguably the best ever military despatch was made by Foch:

    'My left is turned, my centre is broken. Situation excellent, am on the offensive.'
  • ydoethur said:

    @TheScreamingEagles‌ The problem is those aren't exactly good examples, are they? Caesar wasn't given the title of 'Dictator for Life' to ensure a military victory, but because he had staged what amounted to a military coup. Eisenhower was a diplomat and administrator as much as a general, appointed to try and hold the warring factions aka the Allied Armies together and stop them fighting each other instead of the Germans, as with Foch in 1918.

    Eisenhower liberated Western Europe, via the largest seaborne invasion in human history.

    Truly great generals are given such power.

    Plus, Caesar, also had the calendar named after him
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,799
    BBC News has just started. Headline is the death of a Hollywood actor. Obama is making a speech about it.

    Meanwhile thousands under threat of death in Iraq and there's a good chance of renewed fighting in Ukraine which will prevent for ever a proper understanding of the shooting down of the Malaysian airline.

    WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • ydoethur said:

    @TheScreamingEagles‌ The problem is those aren't exactly good examples, are they? Caesar wasn't given the title of 'Dictator for Life' to ensure a military victory, but because he had staged what amounted to a military coup. Eisenhower was a diplomat and administrator as much as a general, appointed to try and hold the warring factions aka the Allied Armies together and stop them fighting each other instead of the Germans, as with Foch in 1918.

    Eisenhower liberated Western Europe, via the largest seaborne invasion in human history.

    Truly great generals are given such power.

    Plus, Caesar, also had the calendar named after him
    Which we no longer use...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,072

    BBC News has just started. Headline is the death of a Hollywood actor. Obama is making a speech about it.

    Meanwhile thousands under threat of death in Iraq and there's a good chance of renewed fighting in Ukraine which will prevent for ever a proper understanding of the shooting down of the Malaysian airline.

    WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Because Iraq has been in the news consistently for quite a while now, and it will probably continue to be. This story will be on today, but not tomorrow.
  • ydoethur said:

    Another example might be Lee - a remarkable general, kept on a tight leash by politicians who were rather afraid of him and his flamboyance. Meanwhile arguably the most useless generals of the whole war, McClellan and Burnside, were both given a great deal of free reign by Lincoln, who felt obliged to ask McClellan at one stage 'You complain in your last about fatigued horses. What have your horses done that would fatigue anything? If you don't want to use the army, I should like to borrow it for a while.'

    And completely OT, but final thought before I have to disappear - on the subject of military despatches and supreme commanders, arguably the best ever military despatch was made by Foch:

    'My left is turned, my centre is broken. Situation excellent, am on the offensive.'

    Bah, Anthony McAuliffe's despatch to the German's inviting him to surrender. was the best.

    To the German Commander.

    NUTS!

    The American Commander

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,985
    'Caesar, also had the calendar named after him'

    So did Augustus...

    Have a good evening!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,005
    King Cole, whilst I expect the news persons want a change from the 'same old' stories, there's no way in hell Robin Williams' suicide, tragic though it is, is a more important story than the Iraq crisis.
  • ydoethur said:

    'Caesar, also had the calendar named after him'

    So did Augustus...

    Have a good evening!

    Haver a good evening, I was talking about this

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,985
    Ah, I see, you mean the Julian calendar rather than July (*facepalm*). But that still doesn't alter the fact he wasn't given the rule of Rome because of his generalship - rather, he seized it because he commanded a big army (cf Septimus Severus, Oliver Cromwell, Napoleon Bonaparte).
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited August 2014

    Vox populi, vox Dei

    A majority of British voters believe Israel acted in a disproportionate manner during the recent Gaza conflict, according to the latest Guardian/ICM poll, which lends support to the arguments that persuaded Lady Warsi to resign from the government.

    Amid hopes that the month-long conflict between Israel and Hamas could be ending as a ceasefire continued to hold, the poll also found greater opposition to Israel than to the Palestinians.

    The poll found that 52% of voters believe Israel acted disproportionately when it responded to the firing of rockets by Hamas by launching air strikes against the Gaza Strip. It found that 19% thought Israel had acted proportionately while 29% of those polled did not know.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/12/uk-voters-israel-disproportionate-gaza-poll

    Which shows most Brits no nothing and won't, while being soft soaped with MSM being anti Israel and scared for their journalists skins under Hamas. When the rockets start falling on them, they may, just may, wake up to reality.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,067
    edited August 2014
    The only decent military commander in human history named Hannibal

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R7ZGK7QuYQ
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @ydoethur

    'My left is turned, my centre is broken. Situation excellent, am on the offensive.'

    I believe the correct quote is "My center is yielding. My right is retreating. Situation excellent. I am attacking." ("Mon centre cède, ma droite recule, situation excellente, j'attaque"). From the first Battle of the Marne. His left could not have been turned because that was being held by the BEF.

    I am disappointed that you accept the Morris Dancer propaganda line that a general who loses, is dismissed and goes off to work as a mercenary for some foreign civilisation before committing suicide is somehow a winner rather than a loser. I had hoped that after all these years you might bring some common sense to the debate, it seems it will continue. *sighs*
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,005
    Mr. Llama, the difference between Hannibal and Caesar as far as eastern despots go is that Hannibal was paid for his military work, whereas Caesar serviced the King of Bithynia for free.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4599/siege-of-gaza

    The real siege of Gaza: by Egypt.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,067
    edited August 2014
    Betting related post, having seen the supposed Real Madrid line up for tonight's super cup match.

    Just taken the 8/1 on Real scoring 4.5 goals or more

    http://www.oddschecker.com/football/uefa-super-cup/real-madrid-v-fc-sevilla/total-home-goals
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    MikeK said:
    Yes, we can blame Egypt too, Israel's sidekick and chief arselicker.

    But don't try to shift the blame from the real culprit, ISRAEL.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    ydoethur said:

    @TheScreamingEagles‌ The problem is those aren't exactly good examples, are they? Caesar wasn't given the title of 'Dictator for Life' to ensure a military victory, but because he had staged what amounted to a military coup. Eisenhower was a diplomat and administrator as much as a general, appointed to try and hold the warring factions aka the Allied Armies together and stop them fighting each other instead of the Germans, as with Foch in 1918.

    Eisenhower liberated Western Europe, via the largest seaborne invasion in human history.

    Truly great generals are given such power.

    Plus, Caesar, also had the calendar named after him
    Which we no longer use...
    It was General Montgomery that commanded Overlord, The invasion of France in 1944.
    Eisenhower was never a battlefield general and had never commanded directly a fighting unit. He was a good politician though.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @TSE

    "Eisenhower liberated Western Europe, via the largest seaborne invasion in human history"

    I know we all say that the Normandy invasion was the largest seaborne invasion in human history, but was it? I haven't dug into this properly yet, but some of my recent reading suggests that actually the later operations in the Pacific might actually have been bigger, at least in the number of ships involved (e.g. see Operation Iceberg the invasion of Okinawa).
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited August 2014


    Is Vince Cable the new foreign secretary ? WTF is going on ?

    A review of existing licences found 12 were for components which could be part of equipment used in Gaza by the Israel Defence Forces and Business Secretary Vince Cable said they would be suspended if the ceasefire broke down.



    http://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2014/08/12/cable-warning-over-israel-exports/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+expressandstar_main+(expressandstar.com+Main+Feed)
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited August 2014

    @TSE

    "Eisenhower liberated Western Europe, via the largest seaborne invasion in human history"

    I know we all say that the Normandy invasion was the largest seaborne invasion in human history, but was it? I haven't dug into this properly yet, but some of my recent reading suggests that actually the later operations in the Pacific might actually have been bigger, at least in the number of ships involved (e.g. see Operation Iceberg the invasion of Okinawa).

    You are wrong. Overlord was and is acknowledged as the greatest seaborn invasion, involving over 1,500 ships.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    MikeK said:


    ydoethur said:

    @TheScreamingEagles‌ The problem is those aren't exactly good examples, are they? Caesar wasn't given the title of 'Dictator for Life' to ensure a military victory, but because he had staged what amounted to a military coup. Eisenhower was a diplomat and administrator as much as a general, appointed to try and hold the warring factions aka the Allied Armies together and stop them fighting each other instead of the Germans, as with Foch in 1918.

    Eisenhower liberated Western Europe, via the largest seaborne invasion in human history.

    Truly great generals are given such power.

    Plus, Caesar, also had the calendar named after him
    Which we no longer use...
    It was General Montgomery that commanded Overlord, The invasion of France in 1944.
    Eisenhower was never a battlefield general and had never commanded directly a fighting unit. He was a good politician though.
    Not really, Montgomery was certainly in command of the Ground forces, but the air and naval operations were not his. The command of all three elements were united under Eisenhower, he was after all famously the man who took the decision to go ahead after the 24 delay.
  • @TSE

    "Eisenhower liberated Western Europe, via the largest seaborne invasion in human history"

    I know we all say that the Normandy invasion was the largest seaborne invasion in human history, but was it? I haven't dug into this properly yet, but some of my recent reading suggests that actually the later operations in the Pacific might actually have been bigger, at least in the number of ships involved (e.g. see Operation Iceberg the invasion of Okinawa).

    I think Normandy wins, on purely the number of troops involved, both in initial troops and total troops used.

    Now, the largest naval battle in history, is something that always confuses, as there are several metrics that can be used

    1) Total ships involved

    2) Number of ships that actually fired

    3) Number of soldiers/sailors involved etc

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Vox populi, vox Dei

    A majority of British voters believe Israel acted in a disproportionate manner during the recent Gaza conflict, according to the latest Guardian/ICM poll, which lends support to the arguments that persuaded Lady Warsi to resign from the government.

    Amid hopes that the month-long conflict between Israel and Hamas could be ending as a ceasefire continued to hold, the poll also found greater opposition to Israel than to the Palestinians.

    The poll found that 52% of voters believe Israel acted disproportionately when it responded to the firing of rockets by Hamas by launching air strikes against the Gaza Strip. It found that 19% thought Israel had acted proportionately while 29% of those polled did not know.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/12/uk-voters-israel-disproportionate-gaza-poll

    "19% thought Israel had acted proportionately"

    Is that a misprint ? 19 bloody percent. Do they not have TV sets ? Some Israeli even used the word "genocide".
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    surbiton said:

    MikeK said:
    Yes, we can blame Egypt too, Israel's sidekick and chief arselicker.

    But don't try to shift the blame from the real culprit, ISRAEL.
    What you really want is for Israel to disappear, then you think you'll be able to sleep safe in your bed from marauding muslims. What a scumbag!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,567
    surbiton said:

    MikeK said:
    Yes, we can blame Egypt too, Israel's sidekick and chief arselicker.

    But don't try to shift the blame from the real culprit, ISRAEL.
    Why are you wasting time on this piffle, don't you know Robin Williams is dead ?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,567

    @TSE

    "Eisenhower liberated Western Europe, via the largest seaborne invasion in human history"

    I know we all say that the Normandy invasion was the largest seaborne invasion in human history, but was it? I haven't dug into this properly yet, but some of my recent reading suggests that actually the later operations in the Pacific might actually have been bigger, at least in the number of ships involved (e.g. see Operation Iceberg the invasion of Okinawa).

    Depends how you count the ships I think. Overlord probably had the most ships facing the beaches, but in the Pacific the whole fleet train concept which involved transporting armies thousands of miles may well have used more ships in the logistics chain.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    surbiton said:

    Vox populi, vox Dei

    A majority of British voters believe Israel acted in a disproportionate manner during the recent Gaza conflict, according to the latest Guardian/ICM poll, which lends support to the arguments that persuaded Lady Warsi to resign from the government.

    Amid hopes that the month-long conflict between Israel and Hamas could be ending as a ceasefire continued to hold, the poll also found greater opposition to Israel than to the Palestinians.

    The poll found that 52% of voters believe Israel acted disproportionately when it responded to the firing of rockets by Hamas by launching air strikes against the Gaza Strip. It found that 19% thought Israel had acted proportionately while 29% of those polled did not know.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/12/uk-voters-israel-disproportionate-gaza-poll

    "19% thought Israel had acted proportionately"

    Is that a misprint ? 19 bloody percent. Do they not have TV sets ? Some Israeli even used the word "genocide".
    How dare they disagree with the Granuaid groupthink !
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    SeanT said:

    There is one way of wiping out Isis without putting troops on the ground. Enormous weapons of mass destruction. Neutron bombs. Nukes.

    If ISIS presents a clear and present danger to the existence of Israel, which it might do in a few months at its present rate of expansion, conquest and acquisition of missiles, then Israel will not hesitate to nuke them.

    So it's far from impossible we will now see nuclear war in the Mid East.

    Great.

    When Jordan falls, maybe the Palestinians might be taken more seriously by the West. The Palestinians are actually quite "liberal" by Arab standards as are the Syrians. The Palestinians are by far the most educated.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    MikeK said:

    @TSE

    "Eisenhower liberated Western Europe, via the largest seaborne invasion in human history"

    I know we all say that the Normandy invasion was the largest seaborne invasion in human history, but was it? I haven't dug into this properly yet, but some of my recent reading suggests that actually the later operations in the Pacific might actually have been bigger, at least in the number of ships involved (e.g. see Operation Iceberg the invasion of Okinawa).

    You are wrong. Overlord was and is acknowledged as the greatest seaborn invasion, involving over 1,500 ships.
    Yes I know that, Mr K, the thing is I am no longer sure that it is true. The states for Iceberg are pretty stunning, and it did involve more men on the sea lift than for D-Day, which would imply more troop transports alone. And the figures for combat shis are fairly mindblowing. For example the British Pacific Fleet which contributed about 25% of the airpower had 17 aircraft carriers, plus battleships, cruisers and destroyers.

    As I say, I am not saying that D-day was not the largest amphibious operation, but I think there is room for doubt.
  • MikeK said:

    @TSE

    "Eisenhower liberated Western Europe, via the largest seaborne invasion in human history"

    I know we all say that the Normandy invasion was the largest seaborne invasion in human history, but was it? I haven't dug into this properly yet, but some of my recent reading suggests that actually the later operations in the Pacific might actually have been bigger, at least in the number of ships involved (e.g. see Operation Iceberg the invasion of Okinawa).

    You are wrong. Overlord was and is acknowledged as the greatest seaborn invasion, involving over 1,500 ships.
    Yes I know that, Mr K, the thing is I am no longer sure that it is true. The states for Iceberg are pretty stunning, and it did involve more men on the sea lift than for D-Day, which would imply more troop transports alone. And the figures for combat shis are fairly mindblowing. For example the British Pacific Fleet which contributed about 25% of the airpower had 17 aircraft carriers, plus battleships, cruisers and destroyers.

    As I say, I am not saying that D-day was not the largest amphibious operation, but I think there is room for doubt.
    "The largest seaborne invasion in history"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-day
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited August 2014

    surbiton said:

    MikeK said:
    Yes, we can blame Egypt too, Israel's sidekick and chief arselicker.

    But don't try to shift the blame from the real culprit, ISRAEL.
    Why are you wasting time on this piffle, don't you know Robin Williams is dead ?
    Sadly, it gets worse. He killed himself !
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,210
    edited August 2014
    "the largest amphibious assault in the Pacific War of World War II"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,567

    "the largest amphibious assault in the Pacific War of World War II"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa

    Timing

    Olympic would have pushed all ops into second place and was scheduled for late 1945.

    So first prize to Chester Nimitz and Douglas MacArthur
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,567
    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    ComRes for ITV finds support for British airstrikes against Islamist militants in iraq by 45% to 37%


    FFS, even the British public now supports the UK, let alone the USA, bombing these ISIS bastards to oblivion.

    Why isn't it happening? Why the timid response? With every day that passes ISIS grows stronger, and the day of reckoning, when we HAVE to take them out, will be that much harder.

    Dave's on holiday and can't posture for the cameras while he's away.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    ComRes for ITV finds support for British airstrikes against Islamist militants in iraq by 45% to 37%


    FFS, even the British public now supports the UK, let alone the USA, bombing these ISIS bastards to oblivion.

    Why isn't it happening? Why the timid response? With every day that passes ISIS grows stronger, and the day of reckoning, when we HAVE to take them out, will be that much harder.

    The US doesn't want Isis damaged as long as they stay away from Baghdad and the Kurdish zone.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    surbiton said:

    Vox01 populi, vox Dei


    A majority of British voters believe Israel acted in a disproportionate manner during the recent Gaza conflict, according to the latest Guardian/ICM poll, which lends support to the arguments that persuaded Lady Warsi to resign from the government.

    Amid hopes that the month-long conflict between Israel and Hamas could be ending as a ceasefire continued to hold, the poll also found greater opposition to Israel than to the Palestinians.

    The poll found that 52% of voters believe Israel acted disproportionately when it responded to the firing of rockets by Hamas by launching air strikes against the Gaza Strip. It found that 19% thought Israel had acted proportionately while 29% of those polled did not know.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/12/uk-voters-israel-disproportionate-gaza-poll

    "19% thought Israel had acted proportionately"

    Is that a misprint ? 19 bloody percent. Do they not have TV sets ? Some Israeli even used the word "genocide".
    You think that nobody is allowed to disagree with you?
    I would have been part of that 19% if polled.
    In fact in my circle of friends that would be the majority view.
    Not surprised but vaguely disappointed that you can't accept dissent from your worldview.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    TGOHF said:



    Is Vince Cable the new foreign secretary ? WTF is going on ?

    A review of existing licences found 12 were for components which could be part of equipment used in Gaza by the Israel Defence Forces and Business Secretary Vince Cable said they would be suspended if the ceasefire broke down.



    http://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2014/08/12/cable-warning-over-israel-exports/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+expressandstar_main+(expressandstar.com+Main+Feed)

    Export licenses fall within Cable's ministry.

  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618

    @TSE

    "Eisenhower liberated Western Europe, via the largest seaborne invasion in human history"

    I know we all say that the Normandy invasion was the largest seaborne invasion in human history, but was it? I haven't dug into this properly yet, but some of my recent reading suggests that actually the later operations in the Pacific might actually have been bigger, at least in the number of ships involved (e.g. see Operation Iceberg the invasion of Okinawa).

    I think Normandy wins, on purely the number of troops involved, both in initial troops and total troops used.

    Now, the largest naval battle in history, is something that always confuses, as there are several metrics that can be used

    1) Total ships involved

    2) Number of ships that actually fired

    3) Number of soldiers/sailors involved etc

    I am currently reading Antony Beevor D Day,incredible detail,next week off to Normandy for the first time,I am always very moved by visiting the cemetries in Northern France.
    I expect I will be very moved by walking the beaches,whether it was the biggest amphibious landing ever or not,it was an incredible feat.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    JackW said:

    TGOHF said:



    Is Vince Cable the new foreign secretary ? WTF is going on ?

    A review of existing licences found 12 were for components which could be part of equipment used in Gaza by the Israel Defence Forces and Business Secretary Vince Cable said they would be suspended if the ceasefire broke down.



    http://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2014/08/12/cable-warning-over-israel-exports/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+expressandstar_main+(expressandstar.com+Main+Feed)

    Export licenses fall within Cable's ministry.

    Police fall under the home office - can May arrest the Israeli ambassador ?

    Seriously...
  • JackW said:

    Export licenses fall within Cable's ministry.

    Ministers are not islands unto themselves. Firstly, any function of the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills is exercisable by any Secretary of State. Secondly, the Secretary of State cannot take decisions of major import without the consent of the whole government. A denunciation of the European Convention on Human Rights, for example, would, formally be a matter for the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs to communicate to the Secretary General of the Council of Europe. That does not mean that Philip Hammond could do it tomorrow of his own motion.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,019
    GeoffM said:


    You think that nobody is allowed to disagree with you?
    I would have been part of that 19% if polled.
    In fact in my circle of friends that would be the majority view.
    Not surprised but vaguely disappointed that you can't accept dissent from your worldview.

    All this proves is the old adage that people like people like themselves. This often happens on here "I think this and so do all my friends" - yes, of course they do because you gravitate to people who think the way you do. It's human nature.

    I also heard today that 9% of people surveyed claimed they had no close friends at all - that's 6 million or so people. Sad, if true.

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    ComRes for ITV finds support for British airstrikes against Islamist militants in iraq by 45% to 37%


    FFS, even the British public now supports the UK, let alone the USA, bombing these ISIS bastards to oblivion.

    Why isn't it happening? Why the timid response? With every day that passes ISIS grows stronger, and the day of reckoning, when we HAVE to take them out, will be that much harder.

    From the UK perspective, with what are we going to drop what and from where? From the overall perspective, what information do we have about where things should be dropped and how up to date is that information going to be by the time the things doing the dropping have got to where they need to be.

    Remember also we must not drop big bombs in case someone gets hurt by accident, so small bombs and precision strikes only are allowed. Do remember that the other night the RAF brought back a complete load of humanitarian supplies because if they had dropped them then someone might have got hurt.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    TGOHF said:

    JackW said:

    TGOHF said:



    Is Vince Cable the new foreign secretary ? WTF is going on ?

    A review of existing licences found 12 were for components which could be part of equipment used in Gaza by the Israel Defence Forces and Business Secretary Vince Cable said they would be suspended if the ceasefire broke down.



    http://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2014/08/12/cable-warning-over-israel-exports/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+expressandstar_main+(expressandstar.com+Main+Feed)

    Export licenses fall within Cable's ministry.

    Police fall under the home office - can May arrest the Israeli ambassador ?

    Seriously...
    No. The Israeli Ambassador enjoys diplomatic status.

    I'm unsure the point you're trying to make unless it's a general pop at Cable. The Business Secretary and his department deal with sensitive export licenses on a routine basis and I'm unsure why Israel should be any different ?

  • TGOHF said:

    Police fall under the home office - can May arrest the Israeli ambassador ?
    Seriously...

    The grant and revocation of export licences are functions conferred on the executive by Parliament. The question is which part of the executive exercises those functions. The police are not part of the executive, and are prohibited by law from taking instructions from it. Diplomatic immunity is conferred by Parliament, albeit who has immunity for the purposes of English law is a matter for the Secretary of State.
  • jayfdee said:

    @TSE

    "Eisenhower liberated Western Europe, via the largest seaborne invasion in human history"

    I know we all say that the Normandy invasion was the largest seaborne invasion in human history, but was it? I haven't dug into this properly yet, but some of my recent reading suggests that actually the later operations in the Pacific might actually have been bigger, at least in the number of ships involved (e.g. see Operation Iceberg the invasion of Okinawa).

    I think Normandy wins, on purely the number of troops involved, both in initial troops and total troops used.

    Now, the largest naval battle in history, is something that always confuses, as there are several metrics that can be used

    1) Total ships involved

    2) Number of ships that actually fired

    3) Number of soldiers/sailors involved etc

    I am currently reading Antony Beevor D Day,incredible detail,next week off to Normandy for the first time,I am always very moved by visiting the cemetries in Northern France.
    I expect I will be very moved by walking the beaches,whether it was the biggest amphibious landing ever or not,it was an incredible feat.

    I've been there a few times, never fails to move me.

    If you get the chance, go to the cliffs at Pointe du Hoc.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,694
    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    ComRes for ITV finds support for British airstrikes against Islamist militants in iraq by 45% to 37%


    FFS, even the British public now supports the UK, let alone the USA, bombing these ISIS bastards to oblivion.

    Why isn't it happening? Why the timid response? With every day that passes ISIS grows stronger, and the day of reckoning, when we HAVE to take them out, will be that much harder.

    The question: how do you take them out?

    ISIS knows well how to defeat the high-tech, low-politics western-style military might. Make the cost of fighting seem higher in the western media than the home population can stand.

    The Vietnamese did it brilliantly in the 1970s; Afghani and Pakistani militants are doing it today. Hamas are present and past masters.

    Just put a few 'soldiers' in a soft target (weddings, schools, hospitals), and ensure compliant media are there to see he resultant strike. Let the media feel they have a scoop by letting them see what you want to see, whilst threatening them ('for their own safety') from reporting negative items. Which, as they have done a deal with you, is not a problem anyway.

    Naturally there are some very honourable exceptions to this within the media.

    Where ISIS is failing at the moment is they they are proud of their own atrocities. They will rapidly learn that lesson.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited August 2014

    JackW said:

    Export licenses fall within Cable's ministry.

    Ministers are not islands unto themselves. Firstly, any function of the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills is exercisable by any Secretary of State. Secondly, the Secretary of State cannot take decisions of major import without the consent of the whole government. A denunciation of the European Convention on Human Rights, for example, would, formally be a matter for the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs to communicate to the Secretary General of the Council of Europe. That does not mean that Philip Hammond could do it tomorrow of his own motion.
    Tis little wonder lawyers enjoy the favour of second hand motor trade salesmen.



  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,567
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    ComRes for ITV finds support for British airstrikes against Islamist militants in iraq by 45% to 37%


    FFS, even the British public now supports the UK, let alone the USA, bombing these ISIS bastards to oblivion.

    Why isn't it happening? Why the timid response? With every day that passes ISIS grows stronger, and the day of reckoning, when we HAVE to take them out, will be that much harder.

    The question: how do you take them out?

    ISIS knows well how to defeat the high-tech, low-politics western-style military might. Make the cost of fighting seem higher in the western media than the home population can stand.

    The Vietnamese did it brilliantly in the 1970s; Afghani and Pakistani militants are doing it today. Hamas are present and past masters.

    Just put a few 'soldiers' in a soft target (weddings, schools, hospitals), and ensure compliant media are there to see he resultant strike. Let the media feel they have a scoop by letting them see what you want to see, whilst threatening them ('for their own safety') from reporting negative items. Which, as they have done a deal with you, is not a problem anyway.

    Naturally there are some very honourable exceptions to this within the media.

    Where ISIS is failing at the moment is they they are proud of their own atrocities. They will rapidly learn that lesson.
    Disagree entirely. ISIS's exultation in their cruelty, towards apostates, enemies, Shia and heathens, is part of their raison d'etre. What you're suggesting is like asking the Khmer Rouge to feel shame at killing the bourgeois. Impossible.

    ISIS won't be able to stop glorying in the deaths of infidels. They won't be able to stop their fighters tweeting the crucifixions.

    This is their achilles heel, they are always going to be loathsome.
    Sure but they're friends with Hamas and Hamas are the good guys doncha know.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312

    ydoethur said:

    @TheScreamingEagles‌ The problem is those aren't exactly good examples, are they? Caesar wasn't given the title of 'Dictator for Life' to ensure a military victory, but because he had staged what amounted to a military coup. Eisenhower was a diplomat and administrator as much as a general, appointed to try and hold the warring factions aka the Allied Armies together and stop them fighting each other instead of the Germans, as with Foch in 1918.

    Eisenhower liberated Western Europe, via the largest seaborne invasion in human history.

    Truly great generals are given such power.

    Plus, Caesar, also had the calendar named after him
    Which we no longer use...
    I take it you're not an Orthodox Christian, Sunil.
  • SeanT said:

    This is their achilles heel, they are always going to be loathsome.

    Indeed. The notion that the Caliph Ibrahim will liberalise to win public support is bizarre. His aim is to conquer territory and subdue entire peoples, not to win popular support.

  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2014
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    ComRes for ITV finds support for British airstrikes against Islamist militants in iraq by 45% to 37%


    FFS, even the British public now supports the UK, let alone the USA, bombing these ISIS bastards to oblivion.

    Why isn't it happening? Why the timid response? With every day that passes ISIS grows stronger, and the day of reckoning, when we HAVE to take them out, will be that much harder.

    The question: how do you take them out?

    ISIS knows well how to defeat the high-tech, low-politics western-style military might. Make the cost of fighting seem higher in the western media than the home population can stand.

    The Vietnamese did it brilliantly in the 1970s; Afghani and Pakistani militants are doing it today. Hamas are present and past masters.

    Just put a few 'soldiers' in a soft target (weddings, schools, hospitals), and ensure compliant media are there to see he resultant strike. Let the media feel they have a scoop by letting them see what you want to see, whilst threatening them ('for their own safety') from reporting negative items. Which, as they have done a deal with you, is not a problem anyway.

    Naturally there are some very honourable exceptions to this within the media.

    Where ISIS is failing at the moment is they they are proud of their own atrocities. They will rapidly learn that lesson.
    Disagree entirely. ISIS's exultation in their cruelty, towards apostates, enemies, Shia and heathens, is part of their raison d'etre. What you're suggesting is like asking the Khmer Rouge to feel shame at killing the bourgeois. Impossible.

    ISIS won't be able to stop glorying in the deaths of infidels. They won't be able to stop their fighters tweeting the crucifixions.

    This is their achilles heel, they are always going to be loathsome.
    It's bad for diplomacy to be portrayed as a bloodsucking barbarian cult.

    Since the west has cold feet and the arabs dont like them very much invading the middle east again, why not have a giant UN force kick ISIS's arse?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,263
    edited August 2014
    Josias Slightly wider than the 37-36% margin by which yougov found support for strikes v ISIS, there was a larger majority for Obama taking strike action without UK support 54-20%
    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/08/12/british-public-approve-american-air-strikes-iraq/
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    stodge said:

    GeoffM said:


    You think that nobody is allowed to disagree with you?
    I would have been part of that 19% if polled.
    In fact in my circle of friends that would be the majority view.
    Not surprised but vaguely disappointed that you can't accept dissent from your worldview.

    All this proves is the old adage that people like people like themselves. This often happens on here "I think this and so do all my friends" - yes, of course they do because you gravitate to people who think the way you do. It's human nature.

    I also heard today that 9% of people surveyed claimed they had no close friends at all - that's 6 million or so people. Sad, if true.

    Predictably you deliberately miss the point.

    You seem amazed that anybody could disagree with you and wonder how it is humanly possible to disagree with you whilst owning a television.

    I was merely pointing out that your one-eyed attitude to life is far from universally shared.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2014

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    ComRes for ITV finds support for British airstrikes against Islamist militants in iraq by 45% to 37%


    FFS, even the British public now supports the UK, let alone the USA, bombing these ISIS bastards to oblivion.

    Why isn't it happening? Why the timid response? With every day that passes ISIS grows stronger, and the day of reckoning, when we HAVE to take them out, will be that much harder.

    The question: how do you take them out?

    ISIS knows well how to defeat the high-tech, low-politics western-style military might. Make the cost of fighting seem higher in the western media than the home population can stand.

    The Vietnamese did it brilliantly in the 1970s; Afghani and Pakistani militants are doing it today. Hamas are present and past masters.

    Just put a few 'soldiers' in a soft target (weddings, schools, hospitals), and ensure compliant media are there to see he resultant strike. Let the media feel they have a scoop by letting them see what you want to see, whilst threatening them ('for their own safety') from reporting negative items. Which, as they have done a deal with you, is not a problem anyway.

    Naturally there are some very honourable exceptions to this within the media.

    Where ISIS is failing at the moment is they they are proud of their own atrocities. They will rapidly learn that lesson.
    Disagree entirely. ISIS's exultation in their cruelty, towards apostates, enemies, Shia and heathens, is part of their raison d'etre. What you're suggesting is like asking the Khmer Rouge to feel shame at killing the bourgeois. Impossible.

    ISIS won't be able to stop glorying in the deaths of infidels. They won't be able to stop their fighters tweeting the crucifixions.

    This is their achilles heel, they are always going to be loathsome.
    Sure but they're friends with Hamas and Hamas are the good guys doncha know.
    I doubt they are friends with Hamas, they want an independent palestinian state, ISIS wants a giant caliphate.
    Fancy the palestinians gaining independence only to lose it to the caliph.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    ComRes for ITV finds support for British airstrikes against Islamist militants in iraq by 45% to 37%


    FFS, even the British public now supports the UK, let alone the USA, bombing these ISIS bastards to oblivion.

    Why isn't it happening? Why the timid response? With every day that passes ISIS grows stronger, and the day of reckoning, when we HAVE to take them out, will be that much harder.

    The question: how do you take them out?

    ISIS knows well how to defeat the high-tech, low-politics western-style military might. Make the cost of fighting seem higher in the western media than the home population can stand.

    The Vietnamese did it brilliantly in the 1970s; Afghani and Pakistani militants are doing it today. Hamas are present and past masters.

    Just put a few 'soldiers' in a soft target (weddings, schools, hospitals), and ensure compliant media are there to see he resultant strike. Let the media feel they have a scoop by letting them see what you want to see, whilst threatening them ('for their own safety') from reporting negative items. Which, as they have done a deal with you, is not a problem anyway.

    Naturally there are some very honourable exceptions to this within the media.

    Where ISIS is failing at the moment is they they are proud of their own atrocities. They will rapidly learn that lesson.
    "Where ISIS is failing at the moment is they they are proud of their own atrocities. They will rapidly learn that lesson."

    The atrocities are intentional.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_of_Savagery

    "Most notably, the author discusses the value of provoking military responses by superpowers in order to recruit and train guerilla fighters and to create martyrs."

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,567
    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    ComRes for ITV finds support for British airstrikes against Islamist militants in iraq by 45% to 37%


    FFS, even the British public now supports the UK, let alone the USA, bombing these ISIS bastards to oblivion.

    Why isn't it happening? Why the timid response? With every day that passes ISIS grows stronger, and the day of reckoning, when we HAVE to take them out, will be that much harder.

    The question: how do you take them out?

    ISIS knows well how to defeat the high-tech, low-politics western-style military might. Make the cost of fighting seem higher in the western media than the home population can stand.

    The Vietnamese did it brilliantly in the 1970s; Afghani and Pakistani militants are doing it today. Hamas are present and past masters.

    Just put a few 'soldiers' in a soft target (weddings, schools, hospitals), and ensure compliant media are there to see he resultant strike. Let the media feel they have a scoop by letting them see what you want to see, whilst threatening them ('for their own safety') from reporting negative items. Which, as they have done a deal with you, is not a problem anyway.

    Naturally there are some very honourable exceptions to this within the media.

    Where ISIS is failing at the moment is they they are proud of their own atrocities. They will rapidly learn that lesson.
    Disagree entirely. ISIS's exultation in their cruelty, towards apostates, enemies, Shia and heathens, is part of their raison d'etre. What you're suggesting is like asking the Khmer Rouge to feel shame at killing the bourgeois. Impossible.

    ISIS won't be able to stop glorying in the deaths of infidels. They won't be able to stop their fighters tweeting the crucifixions.

    This is their achilles heel, they are always going to be loathsome.
    Sure but they're friends with Hamas and Hamas are the good guys doncha know.
    I doubt they are friends with Hamas, they want an independent palestinian state, ISIS wants a giant caliphate.
    Fancy the palestinians gaining independence only to lose it to the caliph.
    How long until the palestinians jump on the ISIS bandwagon ? They always call it wrong.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,019
    GeoffM said:


    Predictably you deliberately miss the point.

    You seem amazed that anybody could disagree with you and wonder how it is humanly possible to disagree with you whilst owning a television.

    I was merely pointing out that your one-eyed attitude to life is far from universally shared.

    Predictably you didn't bother to check who you were replying to and launched into one of your tiresome self-indulgent tirades.


  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,567
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    .

    The question: how do you take them out?


    Where ISIS is failing at the moment is they they are proud of their own atrocities. They will rapidly learn that lesson.

    ISIS won't be able to stop glorying in the deaths of infidels. They won't be able to stop their fighters tweeting the crucifixions.

    This is their achilles heel, they are always going to be loathsome.
    Sure but they're friends with Hamas and Hamas are the good guys doncha know.

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    ComRes for ITV finds support for British airstrikes against Islamist militants in iraq by 45% to 37%


    FFS, even the British public now supports the UK, let alone the USA, bombing these ISIS bastards to oblivion.

    Why isn't it happening? Why the timid response? With every day that passes ISIS grows stronger, and the day of reckoning, when we HAVE to take them out, will be that much harder.

    .

    Naturally there are some very honourable exceptions to this within the media.

    Where ISIS is failing at the moment is they they are proud of their own atrocities. They will rapidly learn that lesson.


    ISIS won't be able to stop glorying in the deaths of infidels. They won't be able to stop their fighters tweeting the crucifixions.

    This is their achilles heel, they are always going to be loathsome.
    Sure but they're friends with Hamas and Hamas are the good guys doncha know.
    I despise Hamas but Hamas aren't in the same league of cruelty and sadism as ISIS. Nor are they remotely as powerful, aggressive and menacing.
    Only because they;re being sat on.

    But the authoritarianism, forced conversions, shoot anyone they disagree differ only in scale. The intention's the same.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,694
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    ComRes for ITV finds support for British airstrikes against Islamist militants in iraq by 45% to 37%


    FFS, even the British public now supports the UK, let alone the USA, bombing these ISIS bastards to oblivion.

    Why isn't it happening? Why the timid response? With every day that passes ISIS grows stronger, and the day of reckoning, when we HAVE to take them out, will be that much harder.

    The question: how do you take them out?

    ISIS knows well how to defeat the high-tech, low-politics western-style military might. Make the cost of fighting seem higher in the western media than the home population can stand.

    The Vietnamese did it brilliantly in the 1970s; Afghani and Pakistani militants are doing it today. Hamas are present and past masters.

    Just put a few 'soldiers' in a soft target (weddings, schools, hospitals), and ensure compliant media are there to see he resultant strike. Let the media feel they have a scoop by letting them see what you want to see, whilst threatening them ('for their own safety') from reporting negative items. Which, as they have done a deal with you, is not a problem anyway.

    Naturally there are some very honourable exceptions to this within the media.

    Where ISIS is failing at the moment is they they are proud of their own atrocities. They will rapidly learn that lesson.
    Disagree entirely. ISIS's exultation in their cruelty, towards apostates, enemies, Shia and heathens, is part of their raison d'etre. What you're suggesting is like asking the Khmer Rouge to feel shame at killing the bourgeois. Impossible.

    ISIS won't be able to stop glorying in the deaths of infidels. They won't be able to stop their fighters tweeting the crucifixions.

    This is their achilles heel, they are always going to be loathsome.
    You may well be right, and I hope you are, for it will make both themselves, and their aims, repellent to everyone else.

    *If* their aims are a large-scale Caliphate, then perhaps it would be an evolution: an initial phase where they perform shock 'n awe to cow their opponents and attract funds, fighters and adherents, followed by another phase when they try to get the international sympathy vote (cf Hamas).

    Or perhaps they don't have any game plan. But it's always stupid to assume your opponents are stupid. Even if they are sick, murderous bast*rds.

    But who knows.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Just a quick note of site courtesy.

    From tomorrow I shall be taking a break from PB for an indeterminate period.

    I will ensure the fortnightly ARSE 2015 General Election and JackW Dozen projections are updated accurately and published under my name and I shall possibly pop back on 18/19 Sep to accept the plaudits for McARSE

    Mrs JackW has convinced me to take a lengthy break and enjoy some restful home and foreign travel and the itinerary looks worthy of an aged Scottish Jacobite.

    Enjoy PB .... I always have ....
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,567
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    .

    The question: how do you take them out?


    Where ISIS is failing at the moment is they they are proud of their own atrocities. They will rapidly learn that lesson.

    ISIS won't be able to stop glorying in the deaths of infidels. They won't be able to stop their fighters tweeting the crucifixions.

    This is their achilles heel, they are always going to be loathsome.
    Sure but they're friends with Hamas and Hamas are the good guys doncha know.

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    ComRes for ITV finds support for British airstrikes against Islamist militants in iraq by 45% to 37%


    FFS, even the British public now supports the UK, let alone the USA, bombing these ISIS bastards to oblivion.

    Why isn't it happening? Why the timid response? With every day that passes ISIS grows stronger, and the day of reckoning, when we HAVE to take them out, will be that much harder.

    .

    Naturally there are some very honourable exceptions to this within the media.

    Where ISIS is failing at the moment is they they are proud of their own atrocities. They will rapidly learn that lesson.


    ISIS won't be able to stop glorying in the deaths of infidels. They won't be able to stop their fighters tweeting the crucifixions.

    This is their achilles heel, they are always going to be loathsome.
    Sure but they're friends with Hamas and Hamas are the good guys doncha know.
    I despise Hamas but Hamas aren't in the same league of cruelty and sadism as ISIS. Nor are they remotely as powerful, aggressive and menacing.
    Only because they;re being sat on.

    But the authoritarianism, forced conversions, shoot anyone they disagree differ only in scale. The intention's the same.
    I disagree, but I can't be arsed to have another argument about Israel.

    Besides, for now, Gaza is a sideshow as we watch the possible beginnings of World War 3 in Iraq.
    So sei es.

    But personally if we have western educated muslims jumping ship to join the nutters, I can't see young men in one of the world's most screwed up communities missing the chance to play butchermeister. Regrettably it;s the dark side of the human soul.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,567
    JackW said:

    Just a quick note of site courtesy.

    From tomorrow I shall be taking a break from PB for an indeterminate period.

    I will ensure the fortnightly ARSE 2015 General Election and JackW Dozen projections are updated accurately and published under my name and I shall possibly pop back on 18/19 Sep to accept the plaudits for McARSE

    Mrs JackW has convinced me to take a lengthy break and enjoy some restful home and foreign travel and the itinerary looks worthy of an aged Scottish Jacobite.

    Enjoy PB .... I always have ....

    Have fun Mr W.

    But make sure you spend more time with us in mid September ;-)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,694
    JackW: enjoy yourself. You will be missed.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Upcoming by election in Thurrock unfortunately

    Tim Aker MEP (@Tim_Aker)
    12/08/2014 18:44
    Sad to hear Thurrock councillor Andy Smith has passed away. He was always very kind and courteous and will be missed.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Jo Pavey - SPOTY
  • Jo Pavey!
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    .

    The question: how do you take them out?


    Where ISIS is failing at the moment is they they are proud of their own atrocities. They will rapidly learn that lesson.

    ISIS won't be able to stop glorying in the deaths of infidels. They won't be able to stop their fighters tweeting the crucifixions.

    This is their achilles heel, they are always going to be loathsome.
    Sure but they're friends with Hamas and Hamas are the good guys doncha know.

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    @MSmithsonPB 2m
    More
    ComRes for ITV finds support for British airstrikes against Islamist militants in iraq by 45% to 37%


    FFS, even the British public now supports the UK, let alone the USA, bombing these ISIS bastards to oblivion.

    Why isn't it happening? Why the timid response? With every day that passes ISIS grows stronger, and the day of reckoning, when we HAVE to take them out, will be that much harder.

    .

    Naturally there are some very honourable exceptions to this within the media.

    Where ISIS is failing at the moment is they they are proud of their own atrocities. They will rapidly learn that lesson.


    ISIS won't be able to stop glorying in the deaths of infidels. They won't be able to stop their fighters tweeting the crucifixions.

    This is their achilles heel, they are always going to be loathsome.
    Sure but they're friends with Hamas and Hamas are the good guys doncha know.
    I despise Hamas but Hamas aren't in the same league of cruelty and sadism as ISIS. Nor are they remotely as powerful, aggressive and menacing.
    Only because they;re being sat on.

    But the authoritarianism, forced conversions, shoot anyone they disagree differ only in scale. The intention's the same.
    I disagree, but I can't be arsed to have another argument about Israel.

    Besides, for now, Gaza is a sideshow as we watch the possible beginnings of World War 3 in Iraq.
    So sei es.

    But personally if we have western educated muslims jumping ship to join the nutters, I can't see young men in one of the world's most screwed up communities missing the chance to play butchermeister. Regrettably it;s the dark side of the human soul.
    I don't see much scope for Hamas to ally with a group like Isis even nowadays but I think you may be right about the number of Palestinian recruits they could get.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,036
    edited August 2014
    SeanT said:



    From the UK perspective, with what are we going to drop what and from where? From the overall perspective, what information do we have about where things should be dropped and how up to date is that information going to be by the time the things doing the dropping have got to where they need to be.

    Remember also we must not drop big bombs in case someone gets hurt by accident, so small bombs and precision strikes only are allowed. Do remember that the other night the RAF brought back a complete load of humanitarian supplies because if they had dropped them then someone might have got hurt.

    We have air bases in Cyprus, we have drones, we have cruise missiles.

    We have access to US satellite surveillance, we and the Yanks have intel operatives in Kurdistan.

    How hard can it be to *pintpoint* an ISIS Abrams tank, FFS. They're enormous, and they will be the ones firing at the Kurds and the Yazidis.

    Stuff like this won't defeat ISIS, but it will at least contain them until we work out a way of defeating them - which probably means arming the Kurds, heavily, and uniting the Iraqis under a new leader who will fight back.

    If that fails, and ISIS keep winning, we will have to go in and kill them ourselves before they kill us. We cannot tolerate a mighty terrorist state, with oil, in the Middle East, menacing everyone else in the world, and trying to blow up buses and trains in every western city.
    We do tolerate it though. It's called Saudi Arabia. This is our firm response:

    Prince Charles refuses to tolerate the sponsorship of terror, condemning it in no uncertain terms by pratting around in a gown with a sword:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLJAKp1pUO0

    Obama puts his foot down about human rights by not bowing QUITE AS DEEPLY as he could have done -that will teach them!
    http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/images/obamaIMAGES/obama-bows-to-saudi-king.jpg

    Cameron calls for tough sanctions to prove that Saudi behaviour will not be tolerated, despite their vast natural resources. Oh no sorry that's Russia. Saudi Arabia he bows deeply whilst getting awarded a nice green sash:
    http://www.themuslimtimes.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/British-PM.png

    Once and for all till people get it. There is ALWAYS a sponsor. Terror costs money. Raising a terrorist army costs even more. ISIS' invincibility is rubbish. ISIS' miraculous reproduction and self funding is rubbish.




  • I'm afraid I have drunk liberally from bottles of whisky today and have smoked some fine Cuban cigars. My chest is heavy, my head is ever so slightly squiffed. London's Soho is a dangerous place. I return to Leamington Spa chastened, but replete; and mourning JackW's temporary - I am sure - departure from the Political Betting family.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,072
    Hope you return feeling refreshed, JackW!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,567

    I'm afraid I have drunk liberally from bottles of whisky today and have smoked some fine Cuban cigars. My chest is heavy, my head is ever so slightly squiffed. London's Soho is a dangerous place. I return to Leamington Spa chastened, but replete; and mourning JackW's temporary - I am sure - departure from the Political Betting family.

    Liquid lunch ?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited August 2014
    Let's talk about the dead in Gaza:

    Lets talk about the dead in gaza @HackmanWatch @I_LUV_IDF @LigueDefJuifs @DAJSamarasinghe @redbrasco @drapermark37 http://t.co/DPqhrvmu5T

    — ✡نNATH&CO✡ن (@Nathandco) August 12, 2014

    The video will be edited to show only stiffs.
  • JackW said:

    Just a quick note of site courtesy.

    From tomorrow I shall be taking a break from PB for an indeterminate period.

    I will ensure the fortnightly ARSE 2015 General Election and JackW Dozen projections are updated accurately and published under my name and I shall possibly pop back on 18/19 Sep to accept the plaudits for McARSE

    Mrs JackW has convinced me to take a lengthy break and enjoy some restful home and foreign travel and the itinerary looks worthy of an aged Scottish Jacobite.

    Enjoy PB .... I always have ....

    Good luck Jack - we'll look forward to welcoming you back before too long it's to be hoped.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    I'm afraid I have drunk liberally from bottles of whisky today and have smoked some fine Cuban cigars. My chest is heavy, my head is ever so slightly squiffed. London's Soho is a dangerous place. I return to Leamington Spa chastened, but replete; and mourning JackW's temporary - I am sure - departure from the Political Betting family.

    I hope you didn't smoke those cuban cigars in an indoors space where someone works. If you did can you send me a private message saying where, please? I need a smoke hole for when I am in town.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    JackW said:

    Just a quick note of site courtesy.

    From tomorrow I shall be taking a break from PB for an indeterminate period.

    I will ensure the fortnightly ARSE 2015 General Election and JackW Dozen projections are updated accurately and published under my name and I shall possibly pop back on 18/19 Sep to accept the plaudits for McARSE

    Mrs JackW has convinced me to take a lengthy break and enjoy some restful home and foreign travel and the itinerary looks worthy of an aged Scottish Jacobite.

    Enjoy PB .... I always have ....

    You're not going to Sandy climes, are you? Better take some suitable clothing if you are. And please, no flags.
  • I'm afraid I have drunk liberally from bottles of whisky today and have smoked some fine Cuban cigars. My chest is heavy, my head is ever so slightly squiffed. London's Soho is a dangerous place. I return to Leamington Spa chastened, but replete; and mourning JackW's temporary - I am sure - departure from the Political Betting family.

    Liquid lunch ?

    I fear so. But it was the last of the summer. There will be no more now for many a long month.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Radio Lincolnshire ‏@BBCRadioLincs 12h

    Boston & Skegness UKIP branch confirm that they expect Neil Hamilton to be shortlisted as a candidate for the 2015 General Election":

    twitter.com/BBCRadioLincs/status/499100398485901313
This discussion has been closed.