"We would not 'join' the EEA as we are already members. It is simply the inevitable position we would find ourselves in initially after we had left the EU. "
Isn't membership of the EEA contingent on being a member of either the EU or EFTA?
No. The EEA is established under a treaty. When the treaty was signed in 1994 the signatories were the individual member states of EFTA and the EU plus the EU itself as a separate signatory. Each country as it has joined the EU has also separately joined the EEA.
Something I've never understood about many Lefties on PB is why they pretend there is no English/British culture or identity.
I know *why* they do it but their arguments are rice paper thin - patriotism is equated with jingoism, nationalism with fascism/Nazis - yet this doesn't apply to PC or the SNP - just Kippers or the English/St George.
I had a long discussion with for example Mr NPEXMP on this very subject several months ago.
And others who denied that the British or Engish had any national culture or identity - we are all mongrels, blah blah. I find this very insulting and demeaning. No wonder Kippers are doing so well. Everyone else has an identity that must be respected bar the resident populace - WTF is the logic here?
I am very clear about my identity as a white British/English/CoE cultural person and its just as valid as any other whatever Labour tries to annex for its own divisive identity politics ends.
Labour are the ones who've played this game to destruction - and now Kippers are picking up their ex-voters in droves. Serves them right for trying to divide us up.
"Something I've never understood about many Lefties on PB is why they pretend there is no English/British culture or identity."
"English/British"? I think you've partly answered your own question there.
I do not remember a single person on PB ever saying people did not have British or English (or Scottish, Welsh, Irish etc) identities.This is just something that Plato has decided lefties believe. Clearly it makes her good to think it, so who are we to deny her that pleasure?
With regards to a single and homogenous English culture, let alone a British one, I have asked any number of times for a definition of what it is on here and have yet to receive a credible answer. There is stuff that unites all of us; there is other stuf that unites some of us. How you get a single culture out of that is beyond me. But, again, if it makes right wingers feel good to say that the left denies British or English culture exists, so be it. They will believe what they want to believe. Perhaps that's a definition of a right winger. Or at least of a certain kind of one :-)
Whilst I agree with your broad thrust, surely that's the same for any large country? By your definition, is there really a French culture, when a Parisian has a very different lifestyle and outlook to a more rural character, even where their families go back hundreds of years? Or a German culture, or Italian?
Can there really be a homogeneous culture in a country of any size?
By that standard, I'm not sure there's even a Scottish culture; from what I have seen the lifestyle and outlook is very different in the Borders to the far northwest, yet alone the centre of Edinburgh or Glasgow. Or Welsh, given the difference between the south of the country and Snowdonia.
I completely agree with you.
So if it is not a homogeneous English (*) culture, then what is it that makes the English English? Is it a common set of beliefs and values that are shared by the majority of us? Many of these are codified in law, but many others are not. As a silly example, the British love of queuing.
Or are we just a set of disparate regional and sub-regional subcultures that mostly share some similar values?
And the madness continues - seriously what are these people on?
An ex-soldier who painted a St George’s flag on his front door was ordered to cover it up by his landlords who claim it could be considered 'offensive' and may bring 'distress' to neighbours.
Steven Rolfe, 52, painted the red and white colours of the English flag upon on his rented home in Preston, Lancashire, in 2003. He also said he put up hanging baskets to celebrate his love of England and mark his former career in the forces.
But despite being runner-up in a council 'best kept house' competition, he has now received a letter ten years on from an official at property management firm Places for People saying neighbours could be 'alarmed' by the symbol.
Something I've never understood about many Lefties on PB is why they pretend there is no English/British culture or identity.
I know *why* they do it but their arguments are rice paper thin - patriotism is equated with jingoism, nationalism with fascism/Nazis - yet this doesn't apply to PC or the SNP - just Kippers or the English/St George.
I had a long discussion with for example Mr NPEXMP on this very subject several months ago.
And others who denied that the British or Engish had any national culture or identity - we are all mongrels, blah blah. I find this very insulting and demeaning. No wonder Kippers are doing so well. Everyone else has an identity that must be respected bar the resident populace - WTF is the logic here?
I am very clear about my identity as a white British/English/CoE cultural person and its just as valid as any other whatever Labour tries to annex for its own divisive identity politics ends.
Labour are the ones who've played this game to destruction - and now Kippers are picking up their ex-voters in droves. Serves them right for trying to divide us up.
"Something I've never understood about many Lefties on PB is why they pretend there is no English/British culture or identity."
"English/British"? I think you've partly answered your own question there.
I do not remember a single person on PB ever saying people did not have British or English (or Scottish, Welsh, Irish etc) identities.This is just something that Plato has decided lefties believe. Clearly it makes her good to think it, so who are we to deny her that pleasure?
With regards to a single and homogenous English culture, let alone a British one, I have asked any number of times for a definition of what it is on here and have yet to receive a credible answer. There is stuff that unites all of us; there is other stuf that unites some of us. How you get a single culture out of that is beyond me. But, again, if it makes right wingers feel good to say that the left denies British or English culture exists, so be it. They will believe what they want to believe. Perhaps that's a definition of a right winger. Or at least of a certain kind of one :-)
Whilst I agree with your broad thrust, surely that's the same for any large country? By your definition, is there really a French culture, when a Parisian has a very different lifestyle and outlook to a more rural character, even where their families go back hundreds of years? Or a German culture, or Italian?
Can there really be a homogeneous culture in a country of any size?
By that standard, I'm not sure there's even a Scottish culture; from what I have seen the lifestyle and outlook is very different in the Borders to the far northwest, yet alone the centre of Edinburgh or Glasgow. Or Welsh, given the difference between the south of the country and Snowdonia.
I completely agree with you.
So if it is not a homogeneous English (*) culture, then what is it that makes the English English? Is it a common set of beliefs and values that are shared by the majority of us? Many of these are codified in law, but many others are not. As a silly example, the British love of queuing.
Or are we just a set of disparate regional and sub-regional subcultures that mostly share some similar values?
(*) Or Welsh, or Scottish
It's a good question. Feeling English is, I guess, the most obvious answer. And I would imagine that we all have different reasons for feeling the way we do about the country we call home. I feel English because I was born in England and know that all my great grand parents, at least, were too. But I also feel British, but maybe for more intangible reasons - in the sense that when I go to Scotland or Wales I do not feel I am abroad.
I don't feel English or British because I queue up for things - many of my fellow citizens donot do that; while I have been stuck in long queues in many other parts of the world. Tea with a touch of milk and plenty of sugar is a very British thing, but also common in Ireland and across the old commonwealth, though less so in Canada (in my experience).
What worries me about people who talk about a single culture of any sort is that it seems to mean what makes them comfortable. Plato mentioned the CoE is being part of English culture. It's not part of mine and I am as English as she is.
ITEM: they favour the abolition of progressive taxation: they think that millionaire bankers and schoolteachers should be taxed at exactly the same rate. This would turn the clock back to the Victorian era and plunge large numbers of people into hopeless levels of debt.
Either (a) you are cutting the taxes of millionaire bankers (not that wealth is relevant for an income tax, but hey-ho) which won't plunge people into debt or (b) you are increasing the level of taxation for schoolteachers to levels that you are unaffordable.
And yet you wouldn't consider reducing spending, if needed, to ensure that taxation was less burdonsome. Or that individuals might reduce their other spending to make sure that they didn't plunge into debt as a result of increased taxation.
Moreover, you are supportive (at least your party is) of a mansion tax that bears no relation to ability to pay - and will do exactly what you consider a great evil in the quoted paragraph.
Confused of London
Hello Confused. No, I haven't said I'm against reducing all spending. We all have our pet cuts - I'd get rid of Trident, for instance. But I do think one has to look at people's circumstances in the round, and if some are cash-rich and income poor while others are vice versa, I'd favour a moderate level of taxation on both, rather than taxing income heavily and wealth not at all.
For the first time in 20yrs - I didn't watch Eurovision - Bonnie Tyler on top of Englebert were just too much for me to endure.
This however made me LOL as its so right.
Cameron Yarde Jnr @CameronYardeJnr In my quest to become BBC1 Controller I have various proposals. My latest is to ask Right Said Fred to represent the UK at Eurovision.
I would go for Depeche Mode!
If RSF weren't available - I'd suggest Erasure. A strong gay preference would give us a chance against the bloc vote contingent. I never expect us to win, but Bonnie and Englebert were just desperate - and deliberately doomed to fail IMO.
There are loads of acts who'd love to have a go - stick it on a website with videos and let the public vote for it if the BBC can't be bothered to even try to do it adequately.
If Pudsey the dancing dog can storm BGT and the USA, we can manage better than 19th at EUVision. Even if Pudsey sang we'd do better than Bonnie.
It's not all bad, we did come 5th as recently as 2009. Jade Ewen with a song composed by Andrew Lloyd Webber - he even accompanied her on stage!
Comments
Or are we just a set of disparate regional and sub-regional subcultures that mostly share some similar values?
(*) Or Welsh, or Scottish
I don't feel English or British because I queue up for things - many of my fellow citizens donot do that; while I have been stuck in long queues in many other parts of the world. Tea with a touch of milk and plenty of sugar is a very British thing, but also common in Ireland and across the old commonwealth, though less so in Canada (in my experience).
What worries me about people who talk about a single culture of any sort is that it seems to mean what makes them comfortable. Plato mentioned the CoE is being part of English culture. It's not part of mine and I am as English as she is.