@HurstLlama I will have to check, but the 1st HLI spent some time in Egypt before continuing on to France, meaning they arrived there some time after the rest of the battalions. HLI were in the Sirhind (sp?) division, and fought alongside the 1/1 to 1/4 gurkah's and another Indian battalion whose name escapes me. I will check the HLI Chronicle, as I seem to recall it mentioned the name of the ship, and is a good source of detail before 1916.
@Flightpath Historians have been arguing about the competence , or lack of, of the High Command during WW1. You are entitled to your view, as I am entitled to mine. It was not easy, as it was a "new" type of warfare, but you will be hard pressed to say that there solutions showed a great understanding of what was the actual reality on the ground. Some of this can be put down to the primitive communications of the time, but heaps of it can only be explained by an indifference on both sides to the fate of their troops and a lack of imagination.
On the contrary their solutions and the evolution of their tactics did indeed show they understood. You cannot create an army overnight and all the New Armies had to learn their trade on the job. No one is saying this was ideal or nice. It was horrible for them, but there was no alternative. I think the one critisism which can be levelled against Brtish operations was the constant level of tranch raiding that went on. Some of this was clearly necessary but probably some was not. The view was that it was important to maintain an offensive aggressive spirit. There is too something in this but probably there was too much trench traiding with consequential casualties.
@isam His department would have organized the wreaths, and, if you are a cynic, arranged it so that Cameron's pre written note was attached, while making sure neither Clegg or Ed had time to attach one themselves. Basic politics, with added twitter tweets.
If this is somehow an attempt to stitch up Clegg/Miliband then that would be an utter disgrace.
Someone has either fucked up, or acted in a wholely inappropriate political manner - big time. Quite who though I'm not sure.
Clegg and Miliband clearly didn't bother to investigate what would be on their wreaths. They wanted the photo op, they've got it now.
It seems like this is more on the organisers than on Ed, given Clegg's wreath. But that compare-and-contrast photo is still going to be in several papers tomorrow, I reckon.
Very poor organisation, then. Basic courtesy I'd have thought - if the organisers were providing the wreaths - not to allow (assuming this is the case) time for the respective party leaders to put their own message or, at least, signature. Equally, I'd have thought someone in Clegg and Milliband's offices might have been savvy enough to think and plan ahead.
I don't think you can draw any other conclusions as to how good they are as politicians. This relates to the dignified parts of their role. More important things to think about on a day such as this than this story.
@Flightpath Historians have been arguing about the competence , or lack of, of the High Command during WW1. You are entitled to your view, as I am entitled to mine. It was not easy, as it was a "new" type of warfare, but you will be hard pressed to say that there solutions showed a great understanding of what was the actual reality on the ground. Some of this can be put down to the primitive communications of the time, but heaps of it can only be explained by an indifference on both sides to the fate of their troops and a lack of imagination.
Smarmeron would be interested in being in contact if you are a/part Sutherland.
The thing many who criticise the generals forget is that it was their sons and grandsons who were disproportionately slaughtered because as 1st and 2nd Lts they led their men over the top with a sword in one hand and pistol in the other, neither of which were much use against German machine guns. Lots of Highland Estates were sold off from 1919 because the son and heir of the Laird had died in WWI.
It seems like this is more on the organisers than on Ed, given Clegg's wreath. But that compare-and-contrast photo is still going to be in several papers tomorrow, I reckon.
I don't think you can draw any other conclusions as to how good they are as politicians. This relates to the dignified parts of their role. More important things to think about on a day such as this than this story.
Yes, something Ed and Nick clearly haven't been doing,
It seems like this is more on the organisers than on Ed, given Clegg's wreath. But that compare-and-contrast photo is still going to be in several papers tomorrow, I reckon.
I don't think you can draw any other conclusions as to how good they are as politicians. This relates to the dignified parts of their role. More important things to think about on a day such as this than this story.
Yes, something Ed and Nick clearly haven't been doing,
I really meant more important things for us to think about.
I don't for a minute think this was staged, but if it was, it isn't exactly hard to write something expressing your condolences rather than your title, even if you only have a few seconds.
LabourList @LabourList Update: Nick Clegg's wreath says "From the Deputy Prime Minister" and is in the same handwriting as Miliband's http://labli.st/1v1gUAo
Would the wreaths not have been provided by the same office and therefore written by the same person? - would seem a simple task to organise a personal message if you wish to do so, just ask the office to provide an extra blank card - or bring your own.
I don't for a minute think this was staged, but if it was, it isn't exactly hard to write something expressing your condolences rather than your title, even if you only have a few seconds.
It seems like this is more on the organisers than on Ed, given Clegg's wreath. But that compare-and-contrast photo is still going to be in several papers tomorrow, I reckon.
I don't think you can draw any other conclusions as to how good they are as politicians. This relates to the dignified parts of their role. More important things to think about on a day such as this than this story.
Yes, something Ed and Nick clearly haven't been doing,
I really meant more important things for us to think about.
Quite, but I am personally capable of thinking about the sacrifices of 14-18 and subsequent wars and thinking Ed and Nick are disrespectful buffoons at the same time. It wouldn't have taken much effort to act appropriately, they didn't make the effort it seems. Says a lot on a day like today.
@Flightpath A lot of the earlier (and later) British offensives were planned around a breakthrough, followed by mobile cavalry exploiting the "hole". Best summed up by the reaction of one of the Irish units having made it to the top of a ridge after getting through to the third trench line. They looked over from the heights, and saw miles of German defences spread out before them, before having to retreat because the support had been chopped to bits along with the units on either side. The comments were unprintable.
I don't for a minute think this was staged, but if it was, it isn't exactly hard to write something expressing your condolences rather than your title, even if you only have a few seconds.
Cards looked laminated to me tbh.
More likely plasticised cards that will last a few days when left out and can be written on.
For a moment forget the issue of Miliband not writing his own message - if the organisers supplied pre-written cards, why on earth did they do them in a child's handwriting?
If the actual person isn't writing the message (for whatever reason), surely the cards should have been typed?
For a moment forget the issue of Miliband not writing his own message - if the organisers supplied pre-written cards, why on earth did they do them in a child's handwriting?
If the actual person isn't writing the message (for whatever reason), surely the cards should have been typed?
Because they were temporary notes to identify the wreath before the addition of a personal note?
@Flightpath A lot of the earlier (and later) British offensives were planned around a breakthrough, followed by mobile cavalry exploiting the "hole". Best summed up by the reaction of one of the Irish units having made it to the top of a ridge after getting through to the third trench line. They looked over from the heights, and saw miles of German defences spread out before them, before having to retreat because the support had been chopped to bits along with the units on either side. The comments were unprintable.
Your words are a bit simplistic and ignore the development of 'bite and hold' tactics. What the British learned was when to 'close down' a battle once they had out run their artillery support and launch another operation on a new front.
"A Labour source tells me that Miliband was handed it by the organisers seconds before he had to lay it. The message was already written by the organisers, and as Miliband had to place it immediately, there was no opportunity to change it. That’s different to what happens at the Cenotaph for Remembrance Sunday, where all of the leaders are given time in advance to write their own messages. It’s not clear why/how Cameron was able to write a message, or why Miliband’s was handed to him at the last minute, but that’s the explanation from Labour HQ."
Don't mean to be funny here....Team Cameron, Clegg or Miliband, will have been told the order of events today...and I'm sure questions would / should have been asked. One of which is we normally do wreath laying at these kind of events. My immediate question would be, so would you like us to prepare a message to be attached to this...same as if you were going to a wedding or funeral, one of the first questions you ask if "should we provide a card / message".
Now it might be found that Clegg and Miliband offices did provide an insert and for whatever reason it wasn't added on top of what is clearly the label to tell those working at the event which wreath to give to which VIP.
If Clegg and Milibands offices never asked these basic / obvious question it looks very very bad on the people they have working for them.
Ed 'Should I provide a message?' Organisers 'no we are getting a child to scrawl your title on a card' Ed 'ok, can I have bacon butties on my rider for this event?'
For a moment forget the issue of Miliband not writing his own message - if the organisers supplied pre-written cards, why on earth did they do them in a child's handwriting?
If the actual person isn't writing the message (for whatever reason), surely the cards should have been typed?
Because they were temporary notes to identify the wreath before the addition of a personal note?
Private Baldrick: Permission to ask a question, sir... Captain Blackadder: Permission granted, Baldrick, as long as isn't the one about where babies come from. Private Baldrick: No, the thing is: The way I see it, these days there's a war on, right? And, ages ago, there wasn't a war on, right? So, there must have been a moment when there not being a war on went away, right? And there being a war on came along. So, what I want to know is: How did we get from the one case of affairs to the other case of affairs? Captain Blackadder: Do you mean, "how did the war start?" [Baldrick thinks for a moment] Private Baldrick: Yeah! I heard it started when some fella called Archie Duke shot an ostrich 'cos he was hungry. Captain Blackadder: I think you mean that it started when the Arch Duke of Austro-Hungary got shot. Private Baldrick: No, there was definitely an ostrich involved. Captain Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war two great super-armies developed. Us, the Russians and the French on one side, Germany and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea being that each army would act as the other's deterrent. That way, there could never be a war. Private Baldrick: Except, this is sort of a war, isn't it? Captain Blackadder: That's right. There was one tiny flaw in the plan. Lieutenant George: O, what was that? Captain Blackadder: It was bollocks.
Seriously, is this wreath thing even relevant to 99% of the populace?
Back in the real world, children are dying in Gaza - are the politicians doing anything about that?
FFS some of you on here really need to look at your priorities!
People are dying by the 1000's in Syria and Iraq, often after being horrifically tortured, but people don't seem to be talking much about that either....
I don't think any of the leading media outlets have covered this situations for weeks now. I believe only questions ISIS captured a massive dam, and their is potential for total chaos if they decide to blow it up.
For a moment forget the issue of Miliband not writing his own message - if the organisers supplied pre-written cards, why on earth did they do them in a child's handwriting?
If the actual person isn't writing the message (for whatever reason), surely the cards should have been typed?
Because they were temporary notes to identify the wreath before the addition of a personal note?
A very good potential explanation!
I can also see the immediate conundrum. He is handed a card with the officials' message. Going through his mind in those moments is that if he changed it to, say, "something noble" signed Ed Miliband he might have copped it in the neck for being as arrogant as to sign it with his name rather than his position of state.
A minefield (no pun intended) and I would err on the side of an organisers' c*ck up.
Would still like to know how Cam circumvented this, though.
Seriously, is this wreath thing even relevant to 99% of the populace?
Back in the real world, children are dying in Gaza - are the politicians doing anything about that?
FFS some of you on here really need to look at your priorities!
People are dying by the 1000's in Syria and Iraq, often after being horrifically tortured, but people don't seem to be talking much about that either....
I don't think any of the leading media outlets have covered this situations for weeks now. I believe only questions ISIS captured a massive dam, and their is potential for total chaos if they decide to blow it up.
Agreed - the dangers from the nutters of ISIS is also a pressing challenge for us.
Seriously, is this wreath thing even relevant to 99% of the populace?
Back in the real world, children are dying in Gaza - are the politicians doing anything about that?
FFS some of you on here really need to look at your priorities!
Beams and motes. Children are dying in lots of places, not just Gaza. In Libya, Syria, Iraq, for instance. Iraqi Christians are being killed or expelled. CoE bishops have asked that we give them asylum, something we can easily do and at little cost to ourselves. That is one practical and moral step our politicians could and should do today.
Those who had relatives who fought in the last century's wars or who fought in them do care about proper respect being shown, though in this case I think it as likely that the organisers did not do a good job on the wreaths front as that Milliband/Clegg's offices weren't on the ball. I don't think that either Milliband or Clegg are people who do not respect the dead who fought.
Seriously, is this wreath thing even relevant to 99% of the populace?
Back in the real world, children are dying in Gaza - are the politicians doing anything about that?
FFS some of you on here really need to look at your priorities!
1 - It is relevant if the LOTO and DPM (and/or their staffs) didn't put the time or effort in to add a personal note to the wreaths. It is massively disrespectful and shows a certain contempt for the event. It will resonate with a lot of people who are thinking about the contributions their families have made to the military history of our nation. That is why it is important and relevant.
2 - What do you want UK politicians to do? Neither side in the Gaza conflict is listening to reason at this stage in proceedings - and we have precious little leverage. If you can come up with some concrete proposals as to how to bring about a resolution, I am sure politicians the world over would love to hear about them.
Today the UK is looking back 100 years to the start of one of the bloodiest conflicts ever in the history of the world. Politicians on all sides should take a few moments to acknowledge the sacrifice of those who paid the ultimate price in that war - and indeed in all wars.
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks, Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs And towards our distant rest began to trudge. Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.
Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time, But someone still was yelling out and stumbling And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime.— Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light, As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams before my helpless sight He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace Behind the wagon that we flung him in, And watch the white eyes writhing in his face, His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin, If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, Bitter as the cud Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,— My friend, you would not tell with such high zest To children ardent for some desperate glory, The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.
Captain Blackadder: Millions have died, but our troops have advanced no further than an asthmatic ant with some heavy shopping.
Careful Sunil - someone on here is trying to claim that Blackadder is not history, so unless you can come up with an identity for the ant, and confirmation of its bronchial ailments, you might need to delete the comment. :-)
Captain Blackadder: Millions have died, but our troops have advanced no further than an asthmatic ant with some heavy shopping.
Careful Sunil - someone on here is trying to claim that Blackadder is not history, so unless you can come up with an identity for the ant, and confirmation of its bronchial ailments, you might need to delete the comment.
Captain Blackadder: How are you feeling, Darling? Captain Darling: Ahm... not all that good, Blackadder. Rather hoped I'd get through the whole show. Go back to work at Pratt and Sons, keep wicket for the Croydon Gentlemen, marry Doris... Made a note in my diary on the way here. Simply says: "Bugger."
Captain Blackadder: Millions have died, but our troops have advanced no further than an asthmatic ant with some heavy shopping.
Careful Sunil - someone on here is trying to claim that Blackadder is not history, so unless you can come up with an identity for the ant, and confirmation of its bronchial ailments, you might need to delete the comment.
Captain Blackadder: How are you feeling, Darling? Captain Darling: Ahm... not all that good, Blackadder. Rather hoped I'd get through the whole show. Go back to work at Pratt and Sons, keep wicket for the Croydon Gentlemen, marry Doris... Made a note in my diary on the way here. Simply says: "Bugger."
Captain Blackadder - Clearly, Field Marshal Haig is about to make yet another gargantuan effort to move his drinks cabinet six inches closer to Berlin.
Captain Blackadder: Millions have died, but our troops have advanced no further than an asthmatic ant with some heavy shopping.
Careful Sunil - someone on here is trying to claim that Blackadder is not history, so unless you can come up with an identity for the ant, and confirmation of its bronchial ailments, you might need to delete the comment.
Captain Blackadder: How are you feeling, Darling? Captain Darling: Ahm... not all that good, Blackadder. Rather hoped I'd get through the whole show. Go back to work at Pratt and Sons, keep wicket for the Croydon Gentlemen, marry Doris... Made a note in my diary on the way here. Simply says: "Bugger."
Captain Blackadder - Clearly, Field Marshal Haig is about to make yet another gargantuan effort to move his drinks cabinet six inches closer to Berlin.
Can't believe it's 25 years old, Blackadder Goes Forth. But comedy aside, the end scene in episode "Goodbyeee" will forever haunt me.
Seriously, is this wreath thing even relevant to 99% of the populace?
Back in the real world, children are dying in Gaza - are the politicians doing anything about that?
FFS some of you on here really need to look at your priorities!
People are dying by the 1000's in Syria and Iraq, often after being horrifically tortured, but people don't seem to be talking much about that either....
I don't think any of the leading media outlets have covered this situations for weeks now. I believe only questions ISIS captured a massive dam, and their is potential for total chaos if they decide to blow it up.
Agreed - the dangers from the nutters of ISIS is also a pressing challenge for us.
I disagree. The nutters of ISIS and their murderous activities are completely irrelevant to the lives of 99.9% of the UK population. Furthermore there is sod all that the UK can do about them or about much else that is going on in the world, including Gaza.
I suppose Parliament could be recalled, hold a debate and pass a motion condemning this that or the other. Cameron, and the other party leaders could make five speeches a day on the subject from now until the election, it would change nothing. The UK has not the muscle, the clout or the influence, even in association with out EU partners, to affect anything in the wider world. Making speeches about nasty things only draws attention to how pathetically weak we are.
Captain Blackadder: Millions have died, but our troops have advanced no further than an asthmatic ant with some heavy shopping.
Careful Sunil - someone on here is trying to claim that Blackadder is not history, so unless you can come up with an identity for the ant, and confirmation of its bronchial ailments, you might need to delete the comment.
Captain Blackadder: How are you feeling, Darling? Captain Darling: Ahm... not all that good, Blackadder. Rather hoped I'd get through the whole show. Go back to work at Pratt and Sons, keep wicket for the Croydon Gentlemen, marry Doris... Made a note in my diary on the way here. Simply says: "Bugger."
Captain Blackadder - Clearly, Field Marshal Haig is about to make yet another gargantuan effort to move his drinks cabinet six inches closer to Berlin.
Can't believe it's 25 years old, Blackadder Goes Forth. But comedy aside, the end scene in episode "Goodbyeee" will forever haunt me.
They had about 10 seconds of bad video of them all going over the top and dying unconvincingly. When they slowed it down and worked their magic it became the ending you see - I still remember the first time I saw it. Just shocked.
Can't believe that there is a debate about a wreath message for which Ed and Nick were not given an opportunity to write a personal message. I suspect that the PM's team were able to get hold of the blank message, so a personal note could be left, as the serving PM.
My great uncle, an Irishman and a doctor, joined the British Army and died in 1916. I have his war diary. He is buried in a grave outside Calais. My own father joined the RAF and became a squadron leader.
Interestingly, the National Museum of Ireland is starting to collect information about Irishmen fighting in both world wars, having rather previously neglected them (to put it mildly) - last week's unveiling of a memorial to them at Glasnevin Cemetery was an example of this. I have offered to share information about my relatives but have yet to hear back. It would be good to get their contribution recognised.
Mrs Free, sorry, Ma'am, I missed you post first time around. I know you were talking about Ireland but if you have information about someone who served in WWI, please may I urge you to consider contributing to the Imperial War Museum project:
''are the politicians doing anything about that?''
What would you like them to do, Murali?
Pressure needs to be put on BOTH sides to restore some sanity. I see pressure only applied to Hamas, no pressure on Israel (at least from US/UK).
I don't know what pressure the UK government has put or, realistically, can put on either side.
But judging by, say, marches in Central London, there has been one march against Israel (at which there was one person holding a banner saying that Hitler was right).
There has been much talk by various UK politicians about how international law mandates the use of proportionate force, about how what Israel is doing is or may be disproportionate etc and about how bombing buildings where civilians are sheltering is a breach of international law. Agreed.
But strangely there has been no march against what Hamas has been doing and less comment that using buildings where civilians are sheltering or residential areas as a base for the firing of arms is also a breach of international law, as the UN has clearly stated.
''are the politicians doing anything about that?''
What would you like them to do, Murali?
Pressure needs to be put on BOTH sides to restore some sanity. I see pressure only applied to Hamas, no pressure on Israel (at least from US/UK).
I don't know what pressure the UK government has put or, realistically, can put on either side.
But judging by, say, marches in Central London, there has been one march against Israel (at which there was one person holding a banner saying that Hitler was right).
There has been much talk by various UK politicians about how international law mandates the use of proportionate force, about how what Israel is doing is or may be disproportionate etc and about how bombing buildings where civilians are sheltering is a breach of international law. Agreed.
But strangely there has been no march against what Hamas has been doing and less comment that using buildings where civilians are sheltering or residential areas as a base for the firing of arms is also a breach of international law, as the UN has clearly stated.
How many Israeli civilians have been killed by Hamas? How many Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israel?
Or do you agree with Netanyahu's policy of "We need to destroy Gaza to save it!"?
Can't believe that there is a debate about a wreath message for which Ed and Nick were not given an opportunity to write a personal message. I suspect that the PM's team were able to get hold of the blank message, so a personal note could be left, as the serving PM.
So, if the PM could do it why couldn't Miliband and Clegg? Could it be that they didn't give a toss and were just there for the photos? This story, which at first I couldn't believe, is about what it tells us about Miliband, his values and his suitability to be PM.
Dr Éoin Clarke @LabourEoin Tories cynically sabotaged wreath laying ceremony to paint Ed Miliband as unpatriotic. In doing so, they bring great shame upon themselves.
Can't believe that there is a debate about a wreath message for which Ed and Nick were not given an opportunity to write a personal message. I suspect that the PM's team were able to get hold of the blank message, so a personal note could be left, as the serving PM.
As serving DPM and serving LOTO, Miliband and Clegg have attended enough memorial services in recent years to know the form. They or their staff should have been up to speed on this.
They failed. And will take the heat accordingly.
This was a simple bit of etiquette - and they got it wrong. All it would have taken is a quick email to those running the event and it would have been sorted - but they don't appear to have taken the trouble. (And by 'they', I do mean the staff in the relevant personal offices)
Dr Éoin Clarke @LabourEoin Tories cynically sabotaged wreath laying ceremony to paint Ed Miliband as unpatriotic. In doing so, they bring great shame upon themselves.
Dr Éoin Clarke @LabourEoin Tories cynically sabotaged wreath laying ceremony to paint Ed Miliband as unpatriotic. In doing so, they bring great shame upon themselves.
Is that man still allowed access to electronic equipment? You have to pity someone who has such a blinkered outlook on life.
My great uncle, an Irishman and a doctor, joined the British Army and died in 1916. I have his war diary. He is buried in a grave outside Calais. My own father joined the RAF and became a squadron leader.
Interestingly, the National Museum of Ireland is starting to collect information about Irishmen fighting in both world wars, having rather previously neglected them (to put it mildly) - last week's unveiling of a memorial to them at Glasnevin Cemetery was an example of this. I have offered to share information about my relatives but have yet to hear back. It would be good to get their contribution recognised.
Mrs Free, sorry, Ma'am, I missed you post first time around. I know you were talking about Ireland but if you have information about someone who served in WWI, please may I urge you to consider contributing to the Imperial War Museum project:
I will. I would like to contribute to the Irish project as well.
I have a photo of my grandfather sitting on the beach at Youghal with my father as a baby in summer 1914. My father was born in 1913 and the last of his 7 siblings died in 2013. While his grandchildren (whom, sadly, he never knew) will live the majority of their lives in the 21st century, he was born a year before WW1, remembered the Irish Civil War, visited 1930's Germany as a young doctor and fought in WW2.
We are very lucky that our lives are so much more peaceful and, with luck, the same will be true for my children.
Dr Éoin Clarke @LabourEoin Tories cynically sabotaged wreath laying ceremony to paint Ed Miliband as unpatriotic. In doing so, they bring great shame upon themselves.
''are the politicians doing anything about that?''
What would you like them to do, Murali?
Pressure needs to be put on BOTH sides to restore some sanity. I see pressure only applied to Hamas, no pressure on Israel (at least from US/UK).
I don't know what pressure the UK government has put or, realistically, can put on either side.
But judging by, say, marches in Central London, there has been one march against Israel (at which there was one person holding a banner saying that Hitler was right).
There has been much talk by various UK politicians about how international law mandates the use of proportionate force, about how what Israel is doing is or may be disproportionate etc and about how bombing buildings where civilians are sheltering is a breach of international law. Agreed.
But strangely there has been no march against what Hamas has been doing and less comment that using buildings where civilians are sheltering or residential areas as a base for the firing of arms is also a breach of international law, as the UN has clearly stated.
How many Israeli civilians have been killed by Hamas? How many Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israel?
Or do you agree with Netanyahu's policy of "We need to destroy Gaza to save it!"?
I don't know why you make an (incorrect)assumption that pointing out what the UN has said about the breaches of international law committed by Hamas makes me a supporter of the Israeli PM. Says more about you than me, I think.
My great uncle, an Irishman and a doctor, joined the British Army and died in 1916. I have his war diary. He is buried in a grave outside Calais. My own father joined the RAF and became a squadron leader.
Interestingly, the National Museum of Ireland is starting to collect information about Irishmen fighting in both world wars, having rather previously neglected them (to put it mildly) - last week's unveiling of a memorial to them at Glasnevin Cemetery was an example of this. I have offered to share information about my relatives but have yet to hear back. It would be good to get their contribution recognised.
Mrs Free, sorry, Ma'am, I missed you post first time around. I know you were talking about Ireland but if you have information about someone who served in WWI, please may I urge you to consider contributing to the Imperial War Museum project:
I have been contacted by a number of Irish organisations interested in my maternal Grandfather who fought in the RN in WW2. There are a lot of separate projects currently running collecting stories about Irishmen or those of Irish descent serving in the British forces.
My great grandfather who had previously served in the Boer War was a volunteer in Kitchener's new army. He survived the war but was badly gassed and died in 1936 of the effects of the gas.
Can't believe that there is a debate about a wreath message for which Ed and Nick were not given an opportunity to write a personal message. I suspect that the PM's team were able to get hold of the blank message, so a personal note could be left, as the serving PM.
As serving DPM and serving LOTO, Miliband and Clegg have attended enough memorial services in recent years to know the form. They or their staff should have been up to speed on this.
They failed. And will take the heat accordingly.
This was a simple bit of etiquette - and they got it wrong. All it would have taken is a quick email to those running the event and it would have been sorted - but they don't appear to have taken the trouble. (And by 'they', I do mean the staff in the relevant personal offices)
It may well have been a matter of etiquette which Miliband and Clegg followed - laying wreaths from the LOTO and the DPM as they were instructed to do. Maybe it is Cameron who was in breach of etiquette. Not a problem, but not a reason to attack either Miliband or Clegg.
My great uncle, an Irishman and a doctor, joined the British Army and died in 1916. I have his war diary. He is buried in a grave outside Calais. My own father joined the RAF and became a squadron leader.
Interestingly, the National Museum of Ireland is starting to collect information about Irishmen fighting in both world wars, having rather previously neglected them (to put it mildly) - last week's unveiling of a memorial to them at Glasnevin Cemetery was an example of this. I have offered to share information about my relatives but have yet to hear back. It would be good to get their contribution recognised.
Mrs Free, sorry, Ma'am, I missed you post first time around. I know you were talking about Ireland but if you have information about someone who served in WWI, please may I urge you to consider contributing to the Imperial War Museum project:
I have been contacted by a number of Irish organisations interested in my maternal Grandfather who fought in the RN in WW2. There are a lot of separate projects currently running collecting stories about Irishmen or those of Irish descent serving in the British forces.
My great grandfather who had previously served in the Boer War was a volunteer in Kitchener's new army. He survived the war but was badly gassed and died in 1936 of the effects of the gas.
If you woudn't mind (and you can do this privately through RCS, to avoid clogging up this thread) would you mind sending me the names of the Irish organisations who have been in contact. I would like to compare notes. Thank you.
It is incomprehensible that a leading political figure being expected to lay a wreath on such an important day would not anticipate requiring time to put a note on the wreath and if such time had not been available, that a flunky would be instructed to write the appropriate note.
To some it may seem trivial. As the great grandson of a volunteer who returned to the army having retired from it pre 1914 only to die at Arras in 1918 leaving 5 children, I feel insulted by Ed Miliband's lax attitude. To me it is further proof that he is not fit to become PM. Even Michael Foot would probably have managed to find time to append a short private note on the card.
Got really annoyed at Kevin Maguire this morning who tried to score a cheap political point by pointing out most of the soldiers who died didn't have the right to vote and nor did their wives/sisters/mothers. Some lefties just have no sense of occasion. People like Denis Healey would be saddened by such behaviour, great men of the left who had distinguished military careers.
Can't believe that there is a debate about a wreath message for which Ed and Nick were not given an opportunity to write a personal message. I suspect that the PM's team were able to get hold of the blank message, so a personal note could be left, as the serving PM.
So, if the PM could do it why couldn't Miliband and Clegg? Could it be that they didn't give a toss and were just there for the photos? This story, which at first I couldn't believe, is about what it tells us about Miliband, his values and his suitability to be PM.
Indeed - why could the PM do it and not the other two? It could be that they hate Britain and its history and have complete disdain for all those who have fought and/or died in service - including, no doubt, their own friends and relatives. Or it could be that they were not made aware they could supply personal messages, or that they were not given the opportunity to do so. Maybe we'll find out more in the hours and days to come.
It is incomprehensible that a leading political figure being expected to lay a wreath on such an important day would not anticipate requiring time to put a note on the wreath and if such time had not been available, that a flunky would be instructed to write the appropriate note.
To some it may seem trivial. As the great grandson of a volunteer who returned to the army having retired from it pre 1914 only to die at Arras in 1918 leaving 5 children, I feel insulted by Ed Miliband's lax attitude. To me it is further proof that he is not fit to become PM. Even Michael Foot would probably have managed to find time to append a short private note on the card.
Got really annoyed at Kevin Maguire this morning who tried to score a cheap political point by pointing out most of the soldiers who died didn't have the right to vote and nor did their wives/sisters/mothers. Some lefties just have no sense of occasion. People like Denis Healey would be saddened by such behaviour, great men of the left who had distinguished military careers.
Absolutely.
And Maguire will always aim for a cheap political shot if he can.
Dr Éoin Clarke @LabourEoin Tories cynically sabotaged wreath laying ceremony to paint Ed Miliband as unpatriotic. In doing so, they bring great shame upon themselves.
A tweet by ITV's Ciaran Jenkins and picked up by the Mirror and Guardian is a Tory plot..?
He's is a twerp of the 1st order and should not be aloud within 20 feet of a sharpened pencil.
It is incomprehensible that a leading political figure being expected to lay a wreath on such an important day would not anticipate requiring time to put a note on the wreath and if such time had not been available, that a flunky would be instructed to write the appropriate note.
To some it may seem trivial. As the great grandson of a volunteer who returned to the army having retired from it pre 1914 only to die at Arras in 1918 leaving 5 children, I feel insulted by Ed Miliband's lax attitude. To me it is further proof that he is not fit to become PM. Even Michael Foot would probably have managed to find time to append a short private note on the card.
Got really annoyed at Kevin Maguire this morning who tried to score a cheap political point by pointing out most of the soldiers who died didn't have the right to vote and nor did their wives/sisters/mothers. Some lefties just have no sense of occasion. People like Denis Healey would be saddened by such behaviour, great men of the left who had distinguished military careers.
And presumably you feel equally sickened by Nick Clegg. As the great grandson of someone who also fought in WW1 I can't say that I feel insulted. But then I don't hate either Miliband or Clegg in the way that you do.
Can't believe that there is a debate about a wreath message for which Ed and Nick were not given an opportunity to write a personal message. I suspect that the PM's team were able to get hold of the blank message, so a personal note could be left, as the serving PM.
So, if the PM could do it why couldn't Miliband and Clegg? Could it be that they didn't give a toss and were just there for the photos? This story, which at first I couldn't believe, is about what it tells us about Miliband, his values and his suitability to be PM.
Indeed - why could the PM do it and not the other two? It could be that they hate Britain and its history and have complete disdain for all those who have fought and/or died in service - including, no doubt, their own friends and relatives. Or it could be that they were not made aware they could supply personal messages, or that they were not given the opportunity to do so. Maybe we'll find out more in the hours and days to come.
The c*ck up theory is most likely to be nearer the truth.
Can't believe that there is a debate about a wreath message for which Ed and Nick were not given an opportunity to write a personal message. I suspect that the PM's team were able to get hold of the blank message, so a personal note could be left, as the serving PM.
So, if the PM could do it why couldn't Miliband and Clegg? Could it be that they didn't give a toss and were just there for the photos? This story, which at first I couldn't believe, is about what it tells us about Miliband, his values and his suitability to be PM.
Indeed - why could the PM do it and not the other two? It could be that they hate Britain and its history and have complete disdain for all those who have fought and/or died in service - including, no doubt, their own friends and relatives. Or it could be that they were not made aware they could supply personal messages, or that they were not given the opportunity to do so. Maybe we'll find out more in the hours and days to come.
NC and EM have both attended many memorial events in an official capacity. Of course they know the protocol and their offices should know how things operate. If there was any doubt over the messages, they should have asked. It is as simple as that.
Bleating about it now makes it look even worse for them. There is no conspiracy here. No attempt to smear the DPM or LOTO. It is simply a failure of the private offices of both men.
Can't believe that there is a debate about a wreath message for which Ed and Nick were not given an opportunity to write a personal message. I suspect that the PM's team were able to get hold of the blank message, so a personal note could be left, as the serving PM.
So, if the PM could do it why couldn't Miliband and Clegg? Could it be that they didn't give a toss and were just there for the photos? This story, which at first I couldn't believe, is about what it tells us about Miliband, his values and his suitability to be PM.
Indeed - why could the PM do it and not the other two? It could be that they hate Britain and its history and have complete disdain for all those who have fought and/or died in service - including, no doubt, their own friends and relatives. Or it could be that they were not made aware they could supply personal messages, or that they were not given the opportunity to do so. Maybe we'll find out more in the hours and days to come.
The c*ck up theory is most likely to be nearer the truth.
As if WW1 itself wasn't the biggest c*ck-up in human history...
'Seriously, is this wreath thing even relevant to 99% of the populace?'
What an amazingly ignorant comment,clearly you haven't had any family involved in either of the world wars otherwise you might see the relevance to a large proportion of the population.
Or are you just desperately trying to find an excuse for Ed?
It is incomprehensible that a leading political figure being expected to lay a wreath on such an important day would not anticipate requiring time to put a note on the wreath and if such time had not been available, that a flunky would be instructed to write the appropriate note.
To some it may seem trivial. As the great grandson of a volunteer who returned to the army having retired from it pre 1914 only to die at Arras in 1918 leaving 5 children, I feel insulted by Ed Miliband's lax attitude. To me it is further proof that he is not fit to become PM. Even Michael Foot would probably have managed to find time to append a short private note on the card.
Got really annoyed at Kevin Maguire this morning who tried to score a cheap political point by pointing out most of the soldiers who died didn't have the right to vote and nor did their wives/sisters/mothers. Some lefties just have no sense of occasion. People like Denis Healey would be saddened by such behaviour, great men of the left who had distinguished military careers.
Absolutely.
And Maguire will always aim for a cheap political shot if he can.
As opposed to those nobly taking aim at Ed Miliband today over wreathgate. No cheap shots there at all!!
Go back to work at Pratt and Sons, keep wicket for the Croydon Gentlemen, marry Doris...
The poverty of Darling's ambitions here makes the whole thing more heartrending. He wasn't asking for much.
Most of us would be happy with a stable job, a good social life outside of work, and a partner to share our lives with.
But not in Croydon, surely? :-)
To each their own. I've only visited a few times, but I'm sure it has it's charms!
The 'up' platform on East Croydon station?
There's also a West Croydon station and a South Croydon! Plus the tram stops in the town centre!
I used to work near east Croydon.....
I used to work near there also, in Caterham. There was a neo-gothic Asda there, as far as I can remember.
That's about as interesting an observation as I am able to make about the area.
I've been to Caterham station, by virtue of it being both the end of its respective branch-line as well as being within the London Oystercard area (though not until relatively recently).
It is incomprehensible that a leading political figure being expected to lay a wreath on such an important day would not anticipate requiring time to put a note on the wreath and if such time had not been available, that a flunky would be instructed to write the appropriate note.
To some it may seem trivial. As the great grandson of a volunteer who returned to the army having retired from it pre 1914 only to die at Arras in 1918 leaving 5 children, I feel insulted by Ed Miliband's lax attitude. To me it is further proof that he is not fit to become PM. Even Michael Foot would probably have managed to find time to append a short private note on the card.
Got really annoyed at Kevin Maguire this morning who tried to score a cheap political point by pointing out most of the soldiers who died didn't have the right to vote and nor did their wives/sisters/mothers. Some lefties just have no sense of occasion. People like Denis Healey would be saddened by such behaviour, great men of the left who had distinguished military careers.
Absolutely.
And Maguire will always aim for a cheap political shot if he can.
Perhaps someone might remind him that women got the vote initially under a Liberal / Conservative coalition and then under a Conservative government.
Can't believe that there is a debate about a wreath message for which Ed and Nick were not given an opportunity to write a personal message. I suspect that the PM's team were able to get hold of the blank message, so a personal note could be left, as the serving PM.
So, if the PM could do it why couldn't Miliband and Clegg? Could it be that they didn't give a toss and were just there for the photos? This story, which at first I couldn't believe, is about what it tells us about Miliband, his values and his suitability to be PM.
Indeed - why could the PM do it and not the other two? It could be that they hate Britain and its history and have complete disdain for all those who have fought and/or died in service - including, no doubt, their own friends and relatives. Or it could be that they were not made aware they could supply personal messages, or that they were not given the opportunity to do so. Maybe we'll find out more in the hours and days to come.
NC and EM have both attended many memorial events in an official capacity. Of course they know the protocol and their offices should know how things operate. If there was any doubt over the messages, they should have asked. It is as simple as that.
Bleating about it now makes it look even worse for them. There is no conspiracy here. No attempt to smear the DPM or LOTO. It is simply a failure of the private offices of both men.
That may well be the case. They have certainly been to a number of memorial services and will indeed know the score. The chances are, therefore, that they were doing what they believed was the right thing to do.
''are the politicians doing anything about that?''
What would you like them to do, Murali?
Pressure needs to be put on BOTH sides to restore some sanity. I see pressure only applied to Hamas, no pressure on Israel (at least from US/UK).
I don't know what pressure the UK government has put or, realistically, can put on either side.
But judging by, say, marches in Central London, there has been one march against Israel (at which there was one person holding a banner saying that Hitler was right).
There has been much talk by various UK politicians about how international law mandates the use of proportionate force, about how what Israel is doing is or may be disproportionate etc and about how bombing buildings where civilians are sheltering is a breach of international law. Agreed.
But strangely there has been no march against what Hamas has been doing and less comment that using buildings where civilians are sheltering or residential areas as a base for the firing of arms is also a breach of international law, as the UN has clearly stated.
How many Israeli civilians have been killed by Hamas? How many Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israel?
Or do you agree with Netanyahu's policy of "We need to destroy Gaza to save it!"?
I don't know why you make an (incorrect)assumption that pointing out what the UN has said about the breaches of international law committed by Hamas makes me a supporter of the Israeli PM. Says more about you than me, I think.
Far more Palestinians have been killed by Israel than vice versa. And I was referring to the current round of fighting.
Comments
I will have to check, but the 1st HLI spent some time in Egypt before continuing on to France, meaning they arrived there some time after the rest of the battalions.
HLI were in the Sirhind (sp?) division, and fought alongside the 1/1 to 1/4 gurkah's and another Indian battalion whose name escapes me. I will check the HLI Chronicle, as I seem to recall it mentioned the name of the ship, and is a good source of detail before 1916.
You cannot create an army overnight and all the New Armies had to learn their trade on the job. No one is saying this was ideal or nice. It was horrible for them, but there was no alternative.
I think the one critisism which can be levelled against Brtish operations was the constant level of tranch raiding that went on. Some of this was clearly necessary but probably some was not. The view was that it was important to maintain an offensive aggressive spirit. There is too something in this but probably there was too much trench traiding with consequential casualties.
I don't think you can draw any other conclusions as to how good they are as politicians. This relates to the dignified parts of their role. More important things to think about on a day such as this than this story.
Happy Birthday
Hugz
The Leader Of The Opposition
The thing many who criticise the generals forget is that it was their sons and grandsons who were disproportionately slaughtered because as 1st and 2nd Lts they led their men over the top with a sword in one hand and pistol in the other, neither of which were much use against German machine guns. Lots of Highland Estates were sold off from 1919 because the son and heir of the Laird had died in WWI.
I don't for a minute think this was staged, but if it was, it isn't exactly hard to write something expressing your condolences rather than your title, even if you only have a few seconds.
A lot of the earlier (and later) British offensives were planned around a breakthrough, followed by mobile cavalry exploiting the "hole".
Best summed up by the reaction of one of the Irish units having made it to the top of a ridge after getting through to the third trench line.
They looked over from the heights, and saw miles of German defences spread out before them, before having to retreat because the support had been chopped to bits along with the units on either side.
The comments were unprintable.
So that's a bacon sandwich, a copy of the Sun and now a wreath that Ed was just "given". Never his fault.
Ed is just a puppet it seems, never in control of his actions.
I don't think you are handed a wreath by organisers of an event which has been long in the organisation and then go about changing it all.
For a moment forget the issue of Miliband not writing his own message - if the organisers supplied pre-written cards, why on earth did they do them in a child's handwriting?
If the actual person isn't writing the message (for whatever reason), surely the cards should have been typed?
I have followed the war closely onTV and so please forgive Gen. Melchett and Captain Darling. They did their best.
LOTO
Don't mean to be funny here....Team Cameron, Clegg or Miliband, will have been told the order of events today...and I'm sure questions would / should have been asked. One of which is we normally do wreath laying at these kind of events. My immediate question would be, so would you like us to prepare a message to be attached to this...same as if you were going to a wedding or funeral, one of the first questions you ask if "should we provide a card / message".
Now it might be found that Clegg and Miliband offices did provide an insert and for whatever reason it wasn't added on top of what is clearly the label to tell those working at the event which wreath to give to which VIP.
If Clegg and Milibands offices never asked these basic / obvious question it looks very very bad on the people they have working for them.
Blackadder was comedy, not history. But like all comedy, there is a grain of truth that makes it "funny"
Organisers 'no we are getting a child to scrawl your title on a card'
Ed 'ok, can I have bacon butties on my rider for this event?'
Maybe they are waiting for the right moment....
Private Baldrick: Permission to ask a question, sir...
Captain Blackadder: Permission granted, Baldrick, as long as isn't the one about where babies come from.
Private Baldrick: No, the thing is: The way I see it, these days there's a war on, right? And, ages ago, there wasn't a war on, right? So, there must have been a moment when there not being a war on went away, right? And there being a war on came along. So, what I want to know is: How did we get from the one case of affairs to the other case of affairs?
Captain Blackadder: Do you mean, "how did the war start?"
[Baldrick thinks for a moment]
Private Baldrick: Yeah! I heard it started when some fella called Archie Duke shot an ostrich 'cos he was hungry.
Captain Blackadder: I think you mean that it started when the Arch Duke of Austro-Hungary got shot.
Private Baldrick: No, there was definitely an ostrich involved.
Captain Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war two great super-armies developed. Us, the Russians and the French on one side, Germany and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea being that each army would act as the other's deterrent. That way, there could never be a war.
Private Baldrick: Except, this is sort of a war, isn't it?
Captain Blackadder: That's right. There was one tiny flaw in the plan.
Lieutenant George: O, what was that?
Captain Blackadder: It was bollocks.
Back in the real world, children are dying in Gaza - are the politicians doing anything about that?
FFS some of you on here really need to look at your priorities!
I don't think any of the leading media outlets have covered this situations for weeks now. I believe only questions ISIS captured a massive dam, and their is potential for total chaos if they decide to blow it up.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mass-immigration-report-warns-of-strain-on-britains-infrastructure-caused-by-population-growth-9641788.html
What would you like them to do, Murali?
A minefield (no pun intended) and I would err on the side of an organisers' c*ck up.
Would still like to know how Cam circumvented this, though.
And Ebola
And Climate Change
And the indyref
blah
Maybe we're all able to think about more than one topic at a time?
Those who had relatives who fought in the last century's wars or who fought in them do care about proper respect being shown, though in this case I think it as likely that the organisers did not do a good job on the wreaths front as that Milliband/Clegg's offices weren't on the ball. I don't think that either Milliband or Clegg are people who do not respect the dead who fought.
2 - What do you want UK politicians to do? Neither side in the Gaza conflict is listening to reason at this stage in proceedings - and we have precious little leverage. If you can come up with some concrete proposals as to how to bring about a resolution, I am sure politicians the world over would love to hear about them.
Today the UK is looking back 100 years to the start of one of the bloodiest conflicts ever in the history of the world. Politicians on all sides should take a few moments to acknowledge the sacrifice of those who paid the ultimate price in that war - and indeed in all wars.
DULCE ET DECORUM EST
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.
Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams before my helpless sight
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin,
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
Captain Blackadder: How are you feeling, Darling?
Captain Darling: Ahm... not all that good, Blackadder. Rather hoped I'd get through the whole show. Go back to work at Pratt and Sons, keep wicket for the Croydon Gentlemen, marry Doris... Made a note in my diary on the way here. Simply says: "Bugger."
But comedy aside, the end scene in episode "Goodbyeee" will forever haunt me.
I suppose Parliament could be recalled, hold a debate and pass a motion condemning this that or the other. Cameron, and the other party leaders could make five speeches a day on the subject from now until the election, it would change nothing. The UK has not the muscle, the clout or the influence, even in association with out EU partners, to affect anything in the wider world. Making speeches about nasty things only draws attention to how pathetically weak we are.
The poverty of Darling's ambitions here makes the whole thing more heartrending. He wasn't asking for much.
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/
"In everlasting memory, Charles"
But judging by, say, marches in Central London, there has been one march against Israel (at which there was one person holding a banner saying that Hitler was right).
There has been much talk by various UK politicians about how international law mandates the use of proportionate force, about how what Israel is doing is or may be disproportionate etc and about how bombing buildings where civilians are sheltering is a breach of international law. Agreed.
But strangely there has been no march against what Hamas has been doing and less comment that using buildings where civilians are sheltering or residential areas as a base for the firing of arms is also a breach of international law, as the UN has clearly stated.
True I guess. I don;t know why, but I formed the impression Doris was a bit of a minger.
Or do you agree with Netanyahu's policy of "We need to destroy Gaza to save it!"?
@LabourEoin
Tories cynically sabotaged wreath laying ceremony to paint Ed Miliband as unpatriotic. In doing so, they bring great shame upon themselves.
They failed. And will take the heat accordingly.
This was a simple bit of etiquette - and they got it wrong. All it would have taken is a quick email to those running the event and it would have been sorted - but they don't appear to have taken the trouble. (And by 'they', I do mean the staff in the relevant personal offices)
I have a photo of my grandfather sitting on the beach at Youghal with my father as a baby in summer 1914. My father was born in 1913 and the last of his 7 siblings died in 2013. While his grandchildren (whom, sadly, he never knew) will live the majority of their lives in the 21st century, he was born a year before WW1, remembered the Irish Civil War, visited 1930's Germany as a young doctor and fought in WW2.
We are very lucky that our lives are so much more peaceful and, with luck, the same will be true for my children.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100194054/another-glorious-apology-from-dr-eoin-clarke/
I like the writer's byline - He was once described by The Church Times as a "blood-crazed ferret". He is on Twitter as HolySmoke.
I don't know why you make an (incorrect)assumption that pointing out what the UN has said about the breaches of international law committed by Hamas makes me a supporter of the Israeli PM. Says more about you than me, I think.
My great grandfather who had previously served in the Boer War was a volunteer in Kitchener's new army. He survived the war but was badly gassed and died in 1936 of the effects of the gas.
Mr. B, at least there weren't any sprinkles on his cappuccino.
To some it may seem trivial. As the great grandson of a volunteer who returned to the army having retired from it pre 1914 only to die at Arras in 1918 leaving 5 children, I feel insulted by Ed Miliband's lax attitude. To me it is further proof that he is not fit to become PM. Even Michael Foot would probably have managed to find time to append a short private note on the card.
Got really annoyed at Kevin Maguire this morning who tried to score a cheap political point by pointing out most of the soldiers who died didn't have the right to vote and nor did their wives/sisters/mothers. Some lefties just have no sense of occasion. People like Denis Healey would be saddened by such behaviour, great men of the left who had distinguished military careers.
That's about as interesting an observation as I am able to make about the area.
And Maguire will always aim for a cheap political shot if he can.
He's is a twerp of the 1st order and should not be aloud within 20 feet of a sharpened pencil.
Bleating about it now makes it look even worse for them. There is no conspiracy here. No attempt to smear the DPM or LOTO. It is simply a failure of the private offices of both men.
'Seriously, is this wreath thing even relevant to 99% of the populace?'
What an amazingly ignorant comment,clearly you haven't had any family involved in either of the world wars otherwise you might see the relevance to a large proportion of the population.
Or are you just desperately trying to find an excuse for Ed?
Just seen the wreath. Ed Miliband is becoming a parody of Ed Miliband.
says it all really.
Anyway have you all got your incontinence knickers ready as we prepare for the weekly yoyo Ashcroft poll? Tory lead 2? Labour lead 8? LibDem lead!!!