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  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    Financier said:

    http://labourlist.org/2014/08/a-9-ukip-strategy-isnt-a-path-to-power-its-a-route-to-disaster/



    I can only assume that those who advocate a 9% UKIP vote must be blinkered by London-centric view of politics. On the morning of May 23rd, having stayed up through the night for LabourList’s election liveblog, I was reflecting on a poor night so far for Labour."

    I really couldn't care less whether Cameron or Miliband is PM this time next year, but Labours approach to winning by doing little other than look at the stats/electoral system flaws needed to gain power is cynical to say the least, and it makes me kind of hope they fail.
    Oh but you will - Cam = PM means a referendum.. Ed means none meaning you can moan endlessly.

    "Cam = PM means a referendum"

    Does it? He is PM now
    Yes.
    I think you are wrong.. have a think
    No I'm pretty sure Cam is PM - perhaps someone will confirm - wikipedia ?
    Less of the unfunny smugness... Ill bet you 6/4 Cameron is PM in 2017 and there is no referendum

    £200?
    Is the bet void if no Cam PM ?

    Yes
    £50 yer on...
    OK so I have £50 at 6/4 no Referendum, ie you have £75@4/6 there will be?

    The qualifier is that Cameron has to be PM
    Er no - the 6/4 is in my favour surely ? Not 4/6.
    No, no you are on at 4/6 that there will be a referendum if Cameron is PM

    I thought you said it was a certainty?
    You offered the bet.. I'd accept at evens.
    I said I'd take at 6/4 and you said £50!

    This all started because you said "Cam=PM" meant a referendum.. now you don't think its a 60% chance?
    I said I'll go to evens - s'up to you.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    I appreciate how difficult it is to get these things right, but Ed/Labour's effort here on the remembrance wreaths is extraordinary: Link

    Oh sweet baby Jesus, that has to be a photoshop ?

    Congratlulations on passing your driving test, I understand you first took it this day 100 years ago?
    Happy anniversary,
    the leader of the opposition

    Who cares if it's photoshopped? It's classic bacon buttie stuff
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited August 2014
    @Morris_Dancer
    Searches of PB are further complicated by the changes in software, and the outages that occurred, and despite Roberts best endeavors, parts of the archive appear to be missing.
    (which is why I could only post a link to Cameron's calls for an election).
    Anyone who feels like it, and has the time is welcome to find an archive close to the date in question, and I will try to find the specific posts from there.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Deary me - that's a shocking effort from Ed Miliband.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Cameron "piling on" on Twitter:

    David Cameron ‏@David_Cameron 1m

    Their enduring legacy is our liberty - remembering the fallen at the Cenotaph in Glasgow. #WW1centenary
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Tissue_Price
    "Their enduring legacy is our liberty"
    Which our governments remove from us without even a proper debate?
  • that has to be a photoshop ?

    If not, that has to be a mole in EM's office?
    Let's be charitable and assume Ed was eating a bacon buttie when he wrote that message.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Is it Balls birthday soon?
    Dear Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer,
    Kind regards on the anniversary of your being born
    From
    The Leader of the Opposition
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    Financier said:

    http://labourlist.org/2014/08/a-9-ukip-strategy-isnt-a-path-to-power-its-a-route-to-disaster/



    I can only assume that those who advocate a 9% UKIP vote must be blinkered by London-centric view of politics. On the morning of May 23rd, having stayed up through the night for LabourList’s election liveblog, I was reflecting on a poor night so far for Labour."

    I really couldn't care less whether Cameron or Miliband is PM this time next year, but Labours approach to winning by doing little other than look at the stats/electoral system flaws needed to gain power is cynical to say the least, and it makes me kind of hope they fail.
    Oh but you will - Cam = PM means a referendum.. Ed means none meaning you can moan endlessly.

    "Cam = PM means a referendum"

    Does it? He is PM now
    Yes.
    I think you are wrong.. have a think
    No I'm pretty sure Cam is PM - perhaps someone will confirm - wikipedia ?
    Less of the unfunny smugness... Ill bet you 6/4 Cameron is PM in 2017 and there is no referendum

    £200?
    Is the bet void if no Cam PM ?

    Yes
    £50 yer on...
    OK so I have £50 at 6/4 no Referendum, ie you have £75@4/6 there will be?

    The qualifier is that Cameron has to be PM
    Er no - the 6/4 is in my favour surely ? Not 4/6.
    No, no you are on at 4/6 that there will be a referendum if Cameron is PM

    I thought you said it was a certainty?
    You offered the bet.. I'd accept at evens.
    I said I'd take at 6/4 and you said £50!

    This all started because you said "Cam=PM" meant a referendum.. now you don't think its a 60% chance?
    I said I'll go to evens - s'up to you.
    You laid 6/4


    isam: Ill bet you 6/4 Cameron is PM in 2017 and there is no referendum

    £200?

    TGOHF: Is the bet void if no Cam PM ?

    isam: Yes

    TGOHF :£50 yer on...

    isam: OK so I have £50 at 6/4 no Referendum, ie you have £75@4/6 there will be?

    The qualifier is that Cameron has to be PM
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    that has to be a photoshop ?

    If not, that has to be a mole in EM's office?
    Let's be charitable and assume Ed was eating a bacon buttie when he wrote that message.
    Obviously the sort of task he can't be bothered with - let an intern do it..
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Did Ed M borrow Gordon Brown's crayons?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    TGOHF said:

    that has to be a photoshop ?

    If not, that has to be a mole in EM's office?
    Let's be charitable and assume Ed was eating a bacon buttie when he wrote that message.
    Obviously the sort of task he can't be bothered with - let an intern do it..
    Maybe he wasn't referring to his job, maybe he is tastefully coming out as a conschy today.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Pulpstar said:

    Deary me - that's a shocking effort from Ed Miliband.

    I don't believe it, no politician would be that crass and unsensitive. That has to be a spoof.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Pulpstar said:

    Deary me - that's a shocking effort from Ed Miliband.

    I don't believe it, no politician would be that crass and unsensitive. That has to be a spoof.
    C4 news claiming it isn't. Looks like a PA or intern has filled it in..
  • TGOHF said:

    that has to be a photoshop ?

    If not, that has to be a mole in EM's office?
    Let's be charitable and assume Ed was eating a bacon buttie when he wrote that message.
    Obviously the sort of task he can't be bothered with - let an intern do it..
    No Dave is the lazy one.

    We've been told this many times.

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    isam said:



    [snipped]

    The qualifier is that Cameron has to be PM

    Mr. Isam, what would happen to the bet if Cameron is re-elected as PM in 2015, goes off to do his negotiations, realises he is not going to be able to pull of a Wilson and resigns in 2017 before the referendum is called?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Ed's family are recent arrivals, so perhaps he didn't feel it was his place to get emotional about this kind of thing?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited August 2014

    Pulpstar said:

    Deary me - that's a shocking effort from Ed Miliband.

    I don't believe it, no politician would be that crass and unsensitive. That has to be a spoof.
    He's talked to people right up and down the country, they all say the same thing. 'Less respect, more party political positioning in your signature'
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Adrian Hilton @Adrian_Hilton

    I'm sorry, but this is far, far worse than any apparent inability to eat a bloody bacon sandwich pic.twitter.com/WbOTHxdInK

  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Deary me - that's a shocking effort from Ed Miliband.

    I don't believe it, no politician would be that crass and unsensitive. That has to be a spoof.
    C4 news claiming it isn't. Looks like a PA or intern has filled it in..
    Cue interviews with Earnest Ed proclaiming his profound respect blah blah blah.
    Lazy Git
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    In the future can you please note under any links that are written by a certain D.Blanchflower as "off topic- comedy" ?

    Thank you.

  • I appreciate how difficult it is to get these things right, but Ed/Labour's effort here on the remembrance wreaths is extraordinary: Link

    EdM was very busy over the weekend condemning Cameron for not condemning Israel often enough. So in his absence one of his office signed on his behalf. We all know that EdM cares little for numerous media appearances just to grab a headline and thinks that stunts to attract tv coverage through meaningless attacks on Govt are not what EdM is about. Being a busy principled man leaves little time for the small bits of signing that a Leader is asked to do.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited August 2014
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Deary me - that's a shocking effort from Ed Miliband.

    I don't believe it, no politician would be that crass and unsensitive. That has to be a spoof.
    C4 news claiming it isn't. Looks like a PA or intern has filled it in..
    Edit - bit much, even for me
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited August 2014
    @Smarmeron

    Following on from our conversation yesterday about your grandfather's WWI service, have you seen the Imperial War Museum's new site?

    https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/

    You may find it a source of useful information as you have the old chap's service number and you may be able to contribute to it.

    P.S. The offer of research at the National Archives stands and will remain open. No fee but you can buy me a drink if I find anything useful.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Deary me - that's a shocking effort from Ed Miliband.

    I don't believe it, no politician would be that crass and unsensitive. That has to be a spoof.
    C4 news claiming it isn't. Looks like a PA or intern has filled it in..
    Still,very poor from miliband and labour.

  • taffys said:

    Ed's family are recent arrivals, so perhaps he didn't feel it was his place to get emotional about this kind of thing?

    My family are what you could call recent arrivals and I get emotional about this kind of thing.

    I've always been very interested and knowledgable about history and military history.

    Then again.

    Ed's father hated Britain. What do you expect

    *trollface*

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:



    [snipped]

    The qualifier is that Cameron has to be PM

    Mr. Isam, what would happen to the bet if Cameron is re-elected as PM in 2015, goes off to do his negotiations, realises he is not going to be able to pull of a Wilson and resigns in 2017 before the referendum is called?
    I'd lose the bet
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Deary me - that's a shocking effort from Ed Miliband.

    I don't believe it, no politician would be that crass and unsensitive. That has to be a spoof.
    C4 news claiming it isn't. Looks like a PA or intern has filled it in..
    Still,very poor from miliband and labour.

    If an intern filled it in, that's much much worse than the words themselves. Shows a complete lack of interest or respect.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Deary me - that's a shocking effort from Ed Miliband.

    I don't believe it, no politician would be that crass and unsensitive. That has to be a spoof.
    C4 news claiming it isn't. Looks like a PA or intern has filled it in..
    Still,very poor from miliband and labour.

    If an intern filled it in, that's much much worse than the words themselves. Shows a complete lack of interest or respect.
    Agree.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    *trollface*

    Well said. I was thinking of the very, very best that could be spun out of this by labour.

    And it was an epic fail.

    Those five constituencies labour could lose to UKIP? they just turned into 10.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932
    Pulpstar said:

    Deary me - that's a shocking effort from Ed Miliband.

    If this is genuine it could be a 'donkey jacket' moment.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    dr_spyn said:
    I imagine an urgent visit to Afghanistan is being planned as we speak.
    '.Hello, I'm LOTO, are you a gun man?'
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited August 2014
    MirrorJames @MirrorJames

    Ed Mili was handed wreath for today's service by organisers secs before he had to lay it and didnt have chance to write a msg say Labour

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Because labour fu*ked up the economy so royally it's taken longer to sort it out? That's the argument you're making?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Tweet -

    Keumars Afifi-Sabet ‏@Keumars 9m
    Has Ed Miliband just laid the wreath to end all wreaths? #WW1centenary
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Deary me - that's a shocking effort from Ed Miliband.

    I don't believe it, no politician would be that crass and unsensitive. That has to be a spoof.
    C4 news claiming it isn't. Looks like a PA or intern has filled it in..
    Edit - bit much, even for me
    Do PAs/interns not grasp that this is pretty f*cking important and maybe, just maybe they should write some words like "Remembering the fallen", "We will remember them", "The glorious dead", "In remembrance" - something just something like that ?!

    How can a PA/intern or w/e be so unaware ?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    MirrorJames @MirrorJames

    Ed Mili was handed wreath for today's service by organisers secs before he had to lay it and didnt have chance to write a msg say Labour

    Yet Cameron did a note.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779

    MirrorJames @MirrorJames

    Ed Mili was handed wreath for today's service by organisers secs before he had to lay it and didnt have chance to write a msg say Labour

    Yet Cameron had time to write a full message? Yet they did have time to write 'from the leader of the opposition' on it?

    Yeah..pull the other one, it's got bells on it
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    MirrorJames @MirrorJames

    Ed Mili was handed wreath for today's service by organisers secs before he had to lay it and didnt have chance to write a msg say Labour

    Yeah because "Leader of the Opposition" is so much easier/quicker to write than his own fecking name eh?


  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Pulpstar said:

    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Deary me - that's a shocking effort from Ed Miliband.

    I don't believe it, no politician would be that crass and unsensitive. That has to be a spoof.
    C4 news claiming it isn't. Looks like a PA or intern has filled it in..
    Edit - bit much, even for me
    Do PAs/interns not grasp that this is pretty f*cking important and maybe, just maybe they should write some words like "Remembering the fallen", "We will remember them", "The glorious dead", "In remembrance" - something just something like that ?!

    How can a PA/intern or w/e be so unaware ?
    Because they are lefty plebs working for a lefty pleb and have no interest in honour, respect or anything other than their client vote?
  • MirrorJames @MirrorJames

    Ed Mili was handed wreath for today's service by organisers secs before he had to lay it and didnt have chance to write a msg say Labour

    Further proof Ed can't think on his feet and Dave can.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    Pulpstar said:

    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Deary me - that's a shocking effort from Ed Miliband.

    I don't believe it, no politician would be that crass and unsensitive. That has to be a spoof.
    C4 news claiming it isn't. Looks like a PA or intern has filled it in..
    Edit - bit much, even for me
    Do PAs/interns not grasp that this is pretty f*cking important and maybe, just maybe they should write some words like "Remembering the fallen", "We will remember them", "The glorious dead", "In remembrance" - something just something like that ?!

    How can a PA/intern or w/e be so unaware ?
    Because they are lefty plebs working for a lefty pleb and have no interest in honour, respect or anything other than their client vote?
    Ha!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    MirrorJames @MirrorJames

    Ed Mili was handed wreath for today's service by organisers secs before he had to lay it and didnt have chance to write a msg say Labour

    Further proof Ed can't think on his feet and Dave can.
    Sort of thing you might give some thought to before turning up, if you gave a sh!t
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    MirrorJames @MirrorJames

    Ed Mili was handed wreath for today's service by organisers secs before he had to lay it and didnt have chance to write a msg say Labour

    Further proof Ed can't think on his feet and Dave can.

    Or Cameron took the time before hand to make sure he had written up a note for the wreath.

    It would be interesting to see what was on Clegg and Salmond's wreathes.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    It would be interesting to see what was on Clegg and Salmond's wreathes.

    Did Farage lay one??
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    Ed's done something stupid again I see.

    Time for a hashtag:

    #NotUpToItEd
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    About that Miliband wreath…

    http://labourlist.org/2014/08/about-that-miliband-wreath/

    Labourlist doing it's best for ed.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @HurstLlama
    I have found his medal card, and despite the National Archive site's attempt to "scramble" it, it appears the M.M. was awarded for an action on the Western Front.
    This is not a great help, as the medal was created in 1916 but could be backdated to 1914.
    The "block" listing on the London gazette only contains one other name though ( 6 Jan 1917)
    which might point to it being for an action in the latter part of 1916, by which time the 1st battalion would already have left.
    Not conclusive, but adds to the circumstantial evidence in that "backdated" awards would I think be released in larger "blocks".
    ( pte. Sutherland J 10844 Highland Light Infantry ) which might fit with him being busted from L Cpl. back down to private on the same day according to the story, but it might just have easily been that he was promoted after (eventually being demobbed as a corporal).
    As you know, even the battalions war diaries are lacking information on the common soldier. As an aside, reading the losses amongst their officers is bad enough, and I have the highest respect for them, if not the "high command".
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Ed Miliband needs to get some new aides. If I was a SPAD or intern, researcher or w/e I'd be completely embarrassed by that lamentable effort and just resign immediately.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    OldKingCole says (or said) - 'Just because existing regimes are bad, it does not follow that their replacements will be any better… '

    No. But just because a course of action has problems does not mean that it should not be pursued. Dictatorships and the toleration of totalitarianism are not the best way to promote peace or freedom in the world. Wishing the awkward problems of the world to go away is not going to help us in our future.
    The West did not start the anti Gadaffi revolution, the West showed itself to be far too willing to put up with his excesses. The West were confronted with the consequences and elected (rightly in my humble opinion) to intervene to prevent massacres.
    Anti intervention votes in parliament have given the green light to all kinds of fanatics - its this which is the disaster. We should be constant and resolute in supporting all factions that are democratic and not fanatic. The Labour Party and idiot tory backbenchers have done the world a grave disservice.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Can someone précis what Ed Has/nt done, ?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Are Labour saying the LotO wreath message is genuine ?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    Ed Miliband needs to get some new aides. If I was a SPAD or intern, researcher or w/e I'd be completely embarrassed by that lamentable effort and just resign immediately.

    Ed should have removed the note - better nothing than that.

    However polling shows that Lib-Lab switchers don't care about this topic ;)

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    About that Miliband wreath…

    http://labourlist.org/2014/08/about-that-miliband-wreath/

    Labourlist doing it's best for ed.

    If that was the case, and to be honest, I don't think Miliband would be so insensitive to lay the wreath with that message as part of a plan, then he should really have detached the note. He could have shown the note afterwards as evidence of his quick thinking if pressed as to why there was no note
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited August 2014

    Can someone précis what Ed Has/nt done, ?

    Cameron's wreath had a personal signed message in remembrance
    Milibands (on the same paper) just said 'from the leader of the opposition'
    labour claim it's all because Ed got given his wreath seconds before laying it and the message was pre-written by the organisers.
    Seems that's only a problem be had though.....
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    edited August 2014
    taffys said:

    It would be interesting to see what was on Clegg and Salmond's wreathes.

    Did Farage lay one??


    I'm not sure that Farage was at the Glasgow Cenotaph - just looks like Cameron, Miliband, Clegg and Salmond

    http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/media/images/76727000/jpg/_76727932_de27-2.jpg
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Labour claim ed was given the wreath 'seconds' before having to lay it, already filled in by the authorities. So he just went ahead.

    It's not clear, according to labour, how that dastardly David Cameron managed to write a heart felt message on HIS wreath (presumably given over at the same time?)

    Perhaps Dave got his wreath blank, and ed got his filled in??
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    JackW said:

    Are Labour saying the LotO wreath message is genuine ?

    Yes they have confirmed it is genuine.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Ed Miliband needs to get some new aides. If I was a SPAD or intern, researcher or w/e I'd be completely embarrassed by that lamentable effort and just resign immediately.

    Ed should have removed the note - better nothing than that.

    However polling shows that Lib-Lab switchers don't care about this topic ;)

    Red Liberals back unpatriotic, Ill-prepared, disrespectful buffoons 100%
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    What's been written on Clegg's wreath - should be instructive.

    Poor form of the organisers to hand him that wreath tbh though - if that is what has happened.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030
    taffys said:

    Labour claim ed was given the wreath 'seconds' before having to lay it, already filled in by the authorities. So he just went ahead.

    It's not clear, according to labour, how that dastardly David Cameron managed to write a heart felt message on HIS wreath (presumably given over at the same time?)

    Perhaps Dave got his wreath blank, and ed got his filled in??

    Almost looks like it is a placeholder, to tell them that this is the wreath belonging to the LOTO.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    JackW said:

    Are Labour saying the LotO wreath message is genuine ?

    Genuine, but not written by the esteemed LotO.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Pulpstar said:

    What's been written on Clegg's wreath - should be instructive.

    Poor form of the organisers to hand him that wreath tbh though - if that is what has happened.

    Not if, despite repeated requests, No message had been sent back to attach (for example), or no contact had been made about message content (for example)
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Just seen it. oh dear ...It looks like the writing of a 14 yr old girl
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    JackW said:

    Are Labour saying the LotO wreath message is genuine ?

    Genuine, but not written by the esteemed LotO.
    Nobody from Labour had enough respect to write anything it seems. Just thought turning up and getting a photo op would do the trick.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    TGOHF said:

    JackW said:

    Are Labour saying the LotO wreath message is genuine ?

    Yes they have confirmed it is genuine.
    Oh dear.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Almost looks like it is a placeholder, to tell them that this is the wreath belonging to the LOTO.

    Indeed but Dave's wreath looks like it was left blank where the placeholder writing is on ed's and Dave filled it in himself. Curious
  • WitanWitan Posts: 26
    Miliband is beyond parody.

    Not only making an egregious insult to the dead and their heirs by not taking care to write his own tribute but made worse by a silly attempt to wriggle out of it with an excuse that a six year old would see as full of holes.

    His excuse: he couldn't even be bothered to bring a wreath in the first place and had to use someone else's.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Mr Smarmerton your aside, 'As an aside, reading the losses amongst their officers is bad enough, and I have the highest respect for them, if not the "high command" ' does show you do not understand the issues facing the 'high command'.

    It was the high command which introduced the Lewis gun, which oversaw the changes in artillery tactics, which reorganised the make up of the infantry battalions, which constantly reviewed and implemented the various training regimes implementing greater field craft, which introduced the tank, which oversaw airborne reconnaissance and other operations and which created the army which, by combining all these factors into a modern whole, finally defeated Germany.
    The day which all of us should be looking towards remembering is 8 August 2018 - the 100th anniversary on the battle of Amiens. This was the day we gave Ludendorff a nervous breakdown.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    He probably had to ask someone who he was pretending to honour today, or he asked an intern to find out,
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited August 2014
    Jonathan Haynes ✔ @JonathanHaynes

    That Cameron wreath/Miliband wreath row that is dominating Twitter, add Clegg's and it looks a bit different (pic PA) pic.twitter.com/MDG4Zkf3ab


    On clegg#s wreath,it says from 'From the Deputy Prime Minister' don't know if true.

    //twitter.com/JonathanHaynes/status/496277755894722560/photo/1

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Clegg's wreath "From the Deputy Prime Minister."
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pulpstar said:

    Clegg's wreath "From the Deputy Prime Minister."

    Cameron coming out of this looking pretty good IMO!
  • WitanWitan Posts: 26
    A hundred years notice of this centenary and Miliband still couldn't organise a wreath or a tribute.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Clegg's wreath "From the Deputy Prime Minister."

    Cameron coming out of this looking pretty good IMO!
    Quite. Looks like he took the time to ensure a fitting message was attached. I would imagine Salmond did too, being a smart cookie.
    The dross of British politics didn't bother,
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    JonathanD said:

    I appreciate how difficult it is to get these things right, but Ed/Labour's effort here on the remembrance wreaths is extraordinary: Link

    Citizen 5790865 affirms his obligations.
    Well, at least he didn't add a #freegaza hashtag.
    I bet he was tempted to invite the dead to #votelabour and #endausterity
    'From the leader of the opposition'.... What a plank

    "the dead, they don't vote"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711351/It-s-good-tax-dead-don-t-vote-jokes-Ed-Miliband-s-guru-friend-Lord-Glasman.html
    Since they don't vote, they shouldn't be taxed either, then.....
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    edited August 2014

    Can someone précis what Ed Has/nt done, ?

    Cameron's wreath had a personal signed message in remembrance
    Milibands (on the same paper) just said 'from the leader of the opposition'
    labour claim it's all because Ed got given his wreath seconds before laying it and the message was pre-written by the organisers.
    Seems that's only a problem be had though.....
    Really someone from his office should have got in touch with the organisers to say that they wanted to make sure that an appropriate note (produce an appropriately handwritten note from EdM) would be attached to the wreath. One phone call and the 5 minutes it takes to write the note. It's not as if they didn't have plenty of notice.

    Poor thinking and sloppy planning by EdM's office.

    Edit: Of course if the organisers left it to the last minute then that's sloppy too. It really doesn't take a genius to organise these things.

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Flightpath
    Historians have been arguing about the competence , or lack of, of the High Command during WW1.
    You are entitled to your view, as I am entitled to mine.
    It was not easy, as it was a "new" type of warfare, but you will be hard pressed to say that there solutions showed a great understanding of what was the actual reality on the ground.
    Some of this can be put down to the primitive communications of the time, but heaps of it can only be explained by an indifference on both sides to the fate of their troops and a lack of imagination.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    LabourList @LabourList

    Update: Nick Clegg's wreath says "From the Deputy Prime Minister" and is in the same handwriting as Miliband's http://labli.st/1v1gUAo

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ed will probably be complaining that Clinton's didn't sign his wife's birthday card for him either.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Poor thinking and sloppy planning by EdM's office. ''

    Ed better hope for his own sake he wasn't asked if he wanted to write a personal note.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    "from the leader of the opposition".....

    FFS - stick to chasing Obama for photo ops in future.

    Pathetic, pathetic man.

  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    That's a classic "Ah but what about ... " from Labour.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Well every Ed critic has to apply the same to Clegg obviously.. strange that people aren't doing so...

    But how come Cameron wrote a tribute? That's what we need to find out
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Deary me - that's a shocking effort from Ed Miliband.

    I don't believe it, no politician would be that crass and unsensitive. That has to be a spoof.
    C4 news claiming it isn't. Looks like a PA or intern has filled it in..
    Perhaps it was a set up by the SNP organisers but Cameron was ready for them.
    If it was the organisers fault then they should be shot - not least because the writing is in itself so infantile and crass, not even respectfully printed.
    If Miliband's helpers were half asleep and allowed it to happen than they should be shot.
    If it was Miliband's fault then he should stay as we tories clearly need him.

    Note all 'shooting' is metaphorical.
    These 'labels' look to me to be just markers and the idea was they should be have been replaced by some personal inscription.

    But who would have woken up this morning with the thought that Miliband would be guilty of allowing such a crass description on a wreath he was laying? You could not make it up.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Smarmeron said:

    @HurstLlama
    I have found his medal card, and despite the National Archive site's attempt to "scramble" it, it appears the M.M. was awarded for an action on the Western Front.
    This is not a great help, as the medal was created in 1916 but could be backdated to 1914.
    The "block" listing on the London gazette only contains one other name though ( 6 Jan 1917)
    which might point to it being for an action in the latter part of 1916, by which time the 1st battalion would already have left.
    Not conclusive, but adds to the circumstantial evidence in that "backdated" awards would I think be released in larger "blocks".
    ( pte. Sutherland J 10844 Highland Light Infantry ) which might fit with him being busted from L Cpl. back down to private on the same day according to the story, but it might just have easily been that he was promoted after (eventually being demobbed as a corporal).
    As you know, even the battalions war diaries are lacking information on the common soldier. As an aside, reading the losses amongst their officers is bad enough, and I have the highest respect for them, if not the "high command".

    Plumbing the information you provided into the new IWM site gives a corporal John Sutherland and a Private J Sutherland of the HLI with the same service number, both seem to be stub records created from a medal index card. No news to you, but there is no other detail recorded and I am sure you do have relevent information. As the IWM is trying to build an archive of the lives of people in WWI maybe you would think about contributing what you do know about your grandfather.

    By the way, the award of the MM is a big deal and was even in the midst of a World War. A gallantry award has never been given lightly in the British army so whatever he did to deserve it is probably recorded in the war diary. If it was for an action on the Western front then there is quite a narrow time frame to consider.

    P.S. I see that the HLI arrived in Marseilles in December 1914, do you happen to know the name of the troopship he was on? The reason I ask was that my grandfather was also in India when war broke out and his battalion came back at about that time. It would be an odd coincidence if a hundred years later their respective grandsons were chatting on something neither of them could have imagined.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,116
    edited August 2014
    OK, I confess this is rather a big counterfactual but:

    How about?

    No WW1, no Treaty of Versailles, no Bolshevik Revolution, no Communism, no Naziism, no Holocaust, no ongoing Arab-Israeli conflict, no ongoing Russo-Ukrainian Conflict.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    isam said:

    Well every Ed critic has to apply the same to Clegg obviously.. strange that people aren't doing so...

    But how come Cameron wrote a tribute? That's what we need to find out

    I said they are both the dross of British politics.
    What the episode shows, however this came about is that Cameron is a better politician, and a better man, than either his deputy or LOTO
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @isam
    His department would have organized the wreaths, and, if you are a cynic, arranged it so that Cameron's pre written note was attached, while making sure neither Clegg or Ed had time to attach one themselves.
    Basic politics, with added twitter tweets.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Michael Heaver @Michael_Heaver

    .@SuzanneEvans1 a new Deputy Chairman for UKIP, fantastic news.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Ed Miliband needs to get some new aides. If I was a SPAD or intern, researcher or w/e I'd be completely embarrassed by that lamentable effort and just resign immediately.

    Ed should have removed the note - better nothing than that.

    However polling shows that Lib-Lab switchers don't care about this topic ;)

    Looks laminated to me, think he could have damaged the wreath if he attempted to remove the note.

    Ed better hope that the organisers weren't in touch with him/his office about an appropriate note.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    It seems like this is more on the organisers than on Ed, given Clegg's wreath. But that compare-and-contrast photo is still going to be in several papers tomorrow, I reckon.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited August 2014

    OK, I confess this is rather a big counterfactual but:

    How about?

    No WW1, no Treaty of Versailles, no Bolshevik Revolution, no Communism, no Naziism, no Holocaust, no ongoing Arab-Israeli conflict, no ongoing Russo-Ukrainian Conflict.

    Bolshevik revolution and communism would have happened anyway, see 1905, Mensheviks and later activity, and would have been the opposition in the first world war whenever that came
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Smarmeron said:

    @isam
    His department would have organized the wreaths, and, if you are a cynic, arranged it so that Cameron's pre written note was attached, while making sure neither Clegg or Ed had time to attach one themselves.
    Basic politics, with added twitter tweets.

    Whose department ?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    Smarmeron said:

    @HurstLlama
    I have found his medal card, and despite the National Archive site's attempt to "scramble" it, it appears the M.M. was awarded for an action on the Western Front.
    This is not a great help, as the medal was created in 1916 but could be backdated to 1914.
    The "block" listing on the London gazette only contains one other name though ( 6 Jan 1917)
    which might point to it being for an action in the latter part of 1916, by which time the 1st battalion would already have left.
    Not conclusive, but adds to the circumstantial evidence in that "backdated" awards would I think be released in larger "blocks".
    ( pte. Sutherland J 10844 Highland Light Infantry ) which might fit with him being busted from L Cpl. back down to private on the same day according to the story, but it might just have easily been that he was promoted after (eventually being demobbed as a corporal).
    As you know, even the battalions war diaries are lacking information on the common soldier. As an aside, reading the losses amongst their officers is bad enough, and I have the highest respect for them, if not the "high command".

    No news to you, but there is no other detail recorded and I am sure you do have relevent information. As the IWM is trying to build an archive of the lives of people in WWI maybe you would think about contributing what you do know about your grandfather.

    By the way, the award of the MM is a big deal and was even in the midst of a World War. A gallantry award has never been given lightly in the British army so whatever he did to deserve it is probably recorded in the war diary. If it was for an action on the Western front then there is quite a narrow time frame to consider.

    P.S. I see that the HLI arrived in Marseilles in December 1914, do you happen to know the name of the troopship he was on? The reason I ask was that my grandfather was also in India when war broke out and his battalion came back at about that time. It would be an odd coincidence if a hundred years later their respective grandsons were chatting on something neither of them could have imagined.
    My great uncle, an Irishman and a doctor, joined the British Army and died in 1916. I have his war diary. He is buried in a grave outside Calais. My own father joined the RAF and became a squadron leader.

    Interestingly, the National Museum of Ireland is starting to collect information about Irishmen fighting in both world wars, having rather previously neglected them (to put it mildly) - last week's unveiling of a memorial to them at Glasnevin Cemetery was an example of this. I have offered to share information about my relatives but have yet to hear back. It would be good to get their contribution recognised.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    A blog about betting adverts on tv...

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.co.uk/
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932


    LabourList @LabourList

    Update: Nick Clegg's wreath says "From the Deputy Prime Minister" and is in the same handwriting as Miliband's http://labli.st/1v1gUAo

    OK, so the same person wrote both Ed's and Nick's wreath. Did they also write Dave's? Did all three men get them in time to write a personal message? If not, why not?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Smarmeron said:

    @isam
    His department would have organized the wreaths, and, if you are a cynic, arranged it so that Cameron's pre written note was attached, while making sure neither Clegg or Ed had time to attach one themselves.
    Basic politics, with added twitter tweets.

    If this is somehow an attempt to stitch up Clegg/Miliband then that would be an utter disgrace.

    Someone has either fucked up, or acted in a wholely inappropriate political manner - big time. Quite who though I'm not sure.
This discussion has been closed.