I suspect that some LibDem MPs - Kennedy,Pugh,Sanders and a few others - will next time refuse to support a Tory-led government almost regardless of the election outcome. Clegg's authority has already gone to a large extent and they would simply ignore him. There might well be a scenario akin to a leadership election with different groups of MPs campaigning for their preferred coalition options in any membership ballot.
I'd be pretty concerned if I was the leader of a party who had put the Tories in power whilst representing a city that doesn't have a single Tory councillor.
I'd be less concerned if my party's vote share had held up very well in elections in my constituency since that decision was made.
There's all sorts of reasons why that might have happened. The reputation of incumbent councillors for one.
I'd be pretty concerned if I was the leader of a party who had put the Tories in power whilst representing a city that doesn't have a single Tory councillor.
I'd be less concerned if my party's vote share had held up very well in elections in my constituency since that decision was made.
There's all sorts of reasons why that might have happened. The reputation of incumbent councillors for one.
Yup, and the fact that the Lib Dems just have more support in the constituency (as indicated by the odds) is another.
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
But those Western liberal democracies refuse to do anything about it.
In other news, Adolf Hitler has apologised to the Jews, by saying "whoops, I'm sorry, I just slipped, these things happen"
So if you want to highlight one loon who apologises what have you got to say about Hamas whose unapologetic Official Policy is the extermination of Israeli's and the destruction of Israel?
I think there's a bit of a difference between a loon saying it, and a national newspaper printing it.
Worth another look. One can serve only one master.
That comes pretty close to some very unpleasant accusations.
It doesn't seem to be reporting anything inaccurate.
It was @FalseFlag's comment about "one master" that is unpleasant. I didn't read the article, which I assumed was just the standard guff about Tories belonging to the "Friends of Israel" (and organisation which for many of them represents a box checked rather than anything more significant)
I thought the LDs had been clear they would do a deal with whoever won the most seats, if it came to that, it just proved a shock to half their voters that they actually meant what they said on that point. who then immediately jumped ship.
No, the line in 2010 was quite simple - the party would talk first to the side winning the most VOTES not seats.
A slip of the, er, fingers, on my part that. Although that could be another good reason to not go into coalition with Labour even if the chance improbably occurs, the LDs can claim since they (might) have less votes than the Tories, it would be inappropriate.
I suspect that some LibDem MPs - Kennedy,Pugh,Sanders and a few others - will next time refuse to support a Tory-led government almost regardless of the election outcome. Clegg's authority has already gone to a large extent and they would simply ignore him. There might well be a scenario akin to a leadership election with different groups of MPs campaigning for their preferred coalition options in any membership ballot.
Well, I really can't see that happening any more than dissident groups of Conservative or Labour MPs doing the same thing.
I've stated my view - the priority for the Party must be to win as many seats and votes as possible (that order dictated by FPTP of course). On that hinges everything but the influence of the LD seat total is governed by the seat totals of the Conservative and Labour parties. If the LDs fall to 30 seats, then 295-295-30 makes life interesting while 315-275-30 provides a clearer picture.
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
I entirely agree.
The fact that some of the smartest people in the world - the Jews - cannot see how their "homeland" is descending into quasi-Fascism is as ironic as it is horribly tragic.
Is that some of the smartest people in the world from the same school of analysis which identifies which type of people can run fast/dance well?
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
I entirely agree.
The fact that some of the smartest people in the world - the Jews - cannot see how their "homeland" is descending into quasi-Fascism is as ironic as it is horribly tragic.
Is that some of the smartest people in the world from the same school of analysis which identifies which type of people can run fast/dance well?
I think you will find that - although I disagree with the basic premise of the science he is using - Sean does have a very well developed hypothesis on IQ based upon racial types.
Where he and I differ is in the relevance of IQ to anything really. But the basic numbers he uses are well founded even if the implications of those numbers are up for debate.
kle4 Yes, for last hour open. Anyway, on the point the economy is clearly not yet out of the woods and will not be so until a surplus is returned, as a result if no party wins a majority the markets will demand a Coalition for stability to achieve that surplus, and indeed the fact no party wins a majority would suggest the public wants the Coalition to continue for now
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
I entirely agree.
The fact that some of the smartest people in the world - the Jews - cannot see how their "homeland" is descending into quasi-Fascism is as ironic as it is horribly tragic.
Is that some of the smartest people in the world from the same school of analysis which identifies which type of people can run fast/dance well?
I think you will find that - although I disagree with the basic premise of the science he is using - Sean does have a very well developed hypothesis on IQ based upon racial types.
Where he and I differ is in the relevance of IQ to anything really. But the basic numbers he uses are well founded even if the implications of those numbers are up for debate.
"science"..."IQ based upon racial types"...Bell Curve...
Absolute utter, utter bollocks.
Surprised because you have always seemed a sensible type.
Frank Booth Well the fact that only 13% of LDs would refuse another Coalition according to that new TNS poll, a far lower total than the Tories and Labour, would suggest LD voters are just as eager to get back into power as Danny!
NP And LDs holding off Labour challenges will face the same pressures from Tory tactical voters, so they cancel each other out. Ultimately whichever party has most seats will have a mandate for government
Neil - fair enough. What do you make of the ICM poll showing less than half of 2010 LD voters in Hallam saying they expect to do so next time?
Sadly I dont think it's enough to tempt you into betting against him holding his seat with me
If I was a betting person 7/2 for Labour in Hallam would definitely tickle my fancy. I don't usually bet and certainly not with people I don't know. Incidentally what odds would you bet on in Hallam?
Frank Booth Well the fact that only 13% of LDs would refuse another Coalition according to that new TNS poll, a far lower total than the Tories and Labour, would suggest LD voters are just as eager to get back into power as Danny!
It's members that count. Current polls suggests the Lib Dems may get 3-4 million votes. They have 40,000 members. That is 1% of Lib Dem voters and they are the only ones who will agree to a coalition or otherwise.
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
I entirely agree.
The fact that some of the smartest people in the world - the Jews - cannot see how their "homeland" is descending into quasi-Fascism is as ironic as it is horribly tragic.
Is that some of the smartest people in the world from the same school of analysis which identifies which type of people can run fast/dance well?
Bit hard to quantify dancing, but Nobel prizes and athletics world records might tell you something about correlations between ethnic origin and being smart/running fast.
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
I entirely agree.
The fact that some of the smartest people in the world - the Jews - cannot see how their "homeland" is descending into quasi-Fascism is as ironic as it is horribly tragic.
Is that some of the smartest people in the world from the same school of analysis which identifies which type of people can run fast/dance well?
I think you will find that - although I disagree with the basic premise of the science he is using - Sean does have a very well developed hypothesis on IQ based upon racial types.
Where he and I differ is in the relevance of IQ to anything really. But the basic numbers he uses are well founded even if the implications of those numbers are up for debate.
Richard apologies if I mis-read your post that you agreed with any "science" which ascribed differences in intelligence (or IQ which as you say is relevant to nothing least of all intelligence) to race.
FrankBooth I do not see any evidence LD members are so different from voters, they overwhelmingly endorsed the 2010 Coalition and any lefties within the membership who could not stomach it will have already jumped ship long ago!
FrankBooth I do not see any evidence LD members are so different from voters, they overwhelmingly endorsed the 2010 Coalition
It'll be interesting to see how many remember that, or rather acknowledge it, if the party does start tearing itself to pieces and blaming Clegg and co for what has befallen them as if it were down to them alone, whereas even if Clegg and co have made things worse (jury's still out on that one I guess, depending on what result we get in 2015), the real problem was that too many of the LD voters were not in sync with the members, they were pure lefties who did then jump ship.
I had forgotten how much fun canvassing could be until this came along. My best yesterday was a man who explained that he had been intending to vote yes but had now changed to a definite no.
Excellent but why, you might ask? Well because the local SNP council had made a complete mess of doing up his kitchen (council house). He demanded I have a look and I did have to admit that the quality of the papering on the ceiling made me look competent at DIY.
He then explained that he had also been banned from the local library and that his doctor was not letting him in the surgery either. By this time I was edging for the door. But we'll take it. One more for the righteous!
That is about all that will be voting NO , Tories, idiots and loons
On IQ I think all the evidence suggests that East Asians have the highest IQ on the mathematical scale and Ashkenazi Jews on the verbal, those of northern European origin are then not too far behind. Afro Caribbeans tend to be the fastest in the world though as any 100m Olympic final will show
I had forgotten how much fun canvassing could be until this came along. My best yesterday was a man who explained that he had been intending to vote yes but had now changed to a definite no.
Excellent but why, you might ask? Well because the local SNP council had made a complete mess of doing up his kitchen (council house). He demanded I have a look and I did have to admit that the quality of the papering on the ceiling made me look competent at DIY.
He then explained that he had also been banned from the local library and that his doctor was not letting him in the surgery either. By this time I was edging for the door. But we'll take it. One more for the righteous!
That is about all that will be voting NO , Tories, idiots and loons
What does that say about your countrymen than 'no' is leading?!
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
I entirely agree.
The fact that some of the smartest people in the world - the Jews - cannot see how their "homeland" is descending into quasi-Fascism is as ironic as it is horribly tragic.
Is that some of the smartest people in the world from the same school of analysis which identifies which type of people can run fast/dance well?
Bit hard to quantify dancing, but Nobel prizes and athletics world records might tell you something about correlations between ethnic origin and being smart/running fast.
You mean it tells you which races become scientists?
I had forgotten how much fun canvassing could be until this came along. My best yesterday was a man who explained that he had been intending to vote yes but had now changed to a definite no.
Excellent but why, you might ask? Well because the local SNP council had made a complete mess of doing up his kitchen (council house). He demanded I have a look and I did have to admit that the quality of the papering on the ceiling made me look competent at DIY.
He then explained that he had also been banned from the local library and that his doctor was not letting him in the surgery either. By this time I was edging for the door. But we'll take it. One more for the righteous!
That is about all that will be voting NO , Tories, idiots and loons
What does that say about your countrymen than 'no' is leading?!
I had forgotten how much fun canvassing could be until this came along. My best yesterday was a man who explained that he had been intending to vote yes but had now changed to a definite no.
Excellent but why, you might ask? Well because the local SNP council had made a complete mess of doing up his kitchen (council house). He demanded I have a look and I did have to admit that the quality of the papering on the ceiling made me look competent at DIY.
He then explained that he had also been banned from the local library and that his doctor was not letting him in the surgery either. By this time I was edging for the door. But we'll take it. One more for the righteous!
That is about all that will be voting NO , Tories, idiots and loons
Given how many loons there are in a population, on average, and given what I am told about the number of Tories in Scotland, I take it Scotland must have a very large proportion of idiots, especially as I imagine there is overlap between the three options.
Considering how important the Scots referendum is to the UK, I have not seen much coverage on the campaign. If they do vote to become independent, Cameron could face having to resign.
As for the coverage, official campaign or no, there's been background stuff filtering through even to the politically unconcerned for more than a year, so not as much ramping up as might seem necessary perhaps, or still keeping their powder dry for the final burst at the end perhaps.
As for Cameron resigning, I think he could well make that choice - though the outcome is not down to him really, and he didn't set things in motion, he would still be the PM who oversaw the demise of the UK - although apparently he won't do it. If enough of his backbenchers, so close to the GE, can be persuaded it is a good thing, that they can focus on a Tory majority in England alone, he might not even face that much pressure.
What will Darling's reward be if No do win is what I wonder though.
As a former holder of one of the 4 great offices of state Darling is automatically entitled to a Peerage if he wants one. However he may get a specific honour like the next vacancy in the Order of the Thistle though that may be some time away as the Queen has just installed both Lord Smith of Kelvin and the Earl of Home.
Considering how important the Scots referendum is to the UK, I have not seen much coverage on the campaign. If they do vote to become independent, Cameron could face having to resign.
As for the coverage, official campaign or no, there's been background stuff filtering through even to the politically unconcerned for more than a year, so not as much ramping up as might seem necessary perhaps, or still keeping their powder dry for the final burst at the end perhaps.
As for Cameron resigning, I think he could well make that choice - though the outcome is not down to him really, and he didn't set things in motion, he would still be the PM who oversaw the demise of the UK - although apparently he won't do it. If enough of his backbenchers, so close to the GE, can be persuaded it is a good thing, that they can focus on a Tory majority in England alone, he might not even face that much pressure.
What will Darling's reward be if No do win is what I wonder though.
As a former holder of one of the 4 great offices of state Darling is automatically entitled to a Peerage if he wants one. However he may get a specific honour like the next vacancy in the Order of the Thistle though that may be some time away as the Queen has just installed both Lord Smith of Kelvin and the Earl of Home.
I had forgotten how much fun canvassing could be until this came along. My best yesterday was a man who explained that he had been intending to vote yes but had now changed to a definite no.
Excellent but why, you might ask? Well because the local SNP council had made a complete mess of doing up his kitchen (council house). He demanded I have a look and I did have to admit that the quality of the papering on the ceiling made me look competent at DIY.
He then explained that he had also been banned from the local library and that his doctor was not letting him in the surgery either. By this time I was edging for the door. But we'll take it. One more for the righteous!
That is about all that will be voting NO , Tories, idiots and loons
What does that say about your countrymen than 'no' is leading?!
I had forgotten how much fun canvassing could be until this came along. My best yesterday was a man who explained that he had been intending to vote yes but had now changed to a definite no.
Excellent but why, you might ask? Well because the local SNP council had made a complete mess of doing up his kitchen (council house). He demanded I have a look and I did have to admit that the quality of the papering on the ceiling made me look competent at DIY.
He then explained that he had also been banned from the local library and that his doctor was not letting him in the surgery either. By this time I was edging for the door. But we'll take it. One more for the righteous!
That is about all that will be voting NO , Tories, idiots and loons
What does that say about your countrymen than 'no' is leading?!
Leading what you idiot, the vote is in September
Wow, someone is in a bitter mood. He's referring to the current opinion polls, of course.
Considering how important the Scots referendum is to the UK, I have not seen much coverage on the campaign. If they do vote to become independent, Cameron could face having to resign.
As for the coverage, official campaign or no, there's been background stuff filtering through even to the politically unconcerned for more than a year, so not as much ramping up as might seem necessary perhaps, or still keeping their powder dry for the final burst at the end perhaps.
As for Cameron resigning, I think he could well make that choice - though the outcome is not down to him really, and he didn't set things in motion, he would still be the PM who oversaw the demise of the UK - although apparently he won't do it. If enough of his backbenchers, so close to the GE, can be persuaded it is a good thing, that they can focus on a Tory majority in England alone, he might not even face that much pressure.
What will Darling's reward be if No do win is what I wonder though.
As a former holder of one of the 4 great offices of state Darling is automatically entitled to a Peerage if he wants one. However he may get a specific honour like the next vacancy in the Order of the Thistle though that may be some time away as the Queen has just installed both Lord Smith of Kelvin and the Earl of Home.
He should be in jail along with his other buddies
For?
His part in the expenses scandal, if it had been anywhere else other than Westminster the jails would have been full of the troughers.
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
I entirely agree.
The fact that some of the smartest people in the world - the Jews - cannot see how their "homeland" is descending into quasi-Fascism is as ironic as it is horribly tragic.
Is that some of the smartest people in the world from the same school of analysis which identifies which type of people can run fast/dance well?
Bit hard to quantify dancing, but Nobel prizes and athletics world records might tell you something about correlations between ethnic origin and being smart/running fast.
You mean it tells you which races become scientists?
Why would there be no correlation of natural ability? Do you contend that Kenyans and Ethiopians win so many marathons solely because so many of them take up running as a sport? That seems unlikely to me.
Considering how important the Scots referendum is to the UK, I have not seen much coverage on the campaign. If they do vote to become independent, Cameron could face having to resign.
As for the coverage, official campaign or no, there's been background stuff filtering through even to the politically unconcerned for more than a year, so not as much ramping up as might seem necessary perhaps, or still keeping their powder dry for the final burst at the end perhaps.
As for Cameron resigning, I think he could well make that choice - though the outcome is not down to him really, and he didn't set things in motion, he would still be the PM who oversaw the demise of the UK - although apparently he won't do it. If enough of his backbenchers, so close to the GE, can be persuaded it is a good thing, that they can focus on a Tory majority in England alone, he might not even face that much pressure.
What will Darling's reward be if No do win is what I wonder though.
As a former holder of one of the 4 great offices of state Darling is automatically entitled to a Peerage if he wants one. However he may get a specific honour like the next vacancy in the Order of the Thistle though that may be some time away as the Queen has just installed both Lord Smith of Kelvin and the Earl of Home.
He should be in jail along with his other buddies
Or Mr Salmond for lying to the public, MacAskill for lying, Sturgeon for not telling the truth but not lying, Hyslop for being incompetent, Any more suggestions. Oh! Sorry, forgot that Salmond was an MP at Westminster so he is allowed.
On IQ I think all the evidence suggests that East Asians have the highest IQ on the mathematical scale and Ashkenazi Jews on the verbal, those of northern European origin are then not too far behind. Afro Caribbeans tend to be the fastest in the world though as any 100m Olympic final will show
I had forgotten how much fun canvassing could be until this came along. My best yesterday was a man who explained that he had been intending to vote yes but had now changed to a definite no.
Excellent but why, you might ask? Well because the local SNP council had made a complete mess of doing up his kitchen (council house). He demanded I have a look and I did have to admit that the quality of the papering on the ceiling made me look competent at DIY.
He then explained that he had also been banned from the local library and that his doctor was not letting him in the surgery either. By this time I was edging for the door. But we'll take it. One more for the righteous!
That is about all that will be voting NO , Tories, idiots and loons
What does that say about your countrymen than 'no' is leading?!
Leading what you idiot, the vote is in September
Wow, someone is in a bitter mood. He's referring to the current opinion polls, of course.
kle4 Indeed, we will find out next year, though most of those who jumped ship were not real Liberals, they probably voted for Kinnock and Blair pre Iraq, they simply loaned their votes to the LDs as 'the leftwing conscience of Labour' and got a shock when they realised liberalism is not socialism and moved back to Labour or the Greens
I had forgotten how much fun canvassing could be until this came along. My best yesterday was a man who explained that he had been intending to vote yes but had now changed to a definite no.
Excellent but why, you might ask? Well because the local SNP council had made a complete mess of doing up his kitchen (council house). He demanded I have a look and I did have to admit that the quality of the papering on the ceiling made me look competent at DIY.
He then explained that he had also been banned from the local library and that his doctor was not letting him in the surgery either. By this time I was edging for the door. But we'll take it. One more for the righteous!
That is about all that will be voting NO , Tories, idiots and loons
What does that say about your countrymen than 'no' is leading?!
Leading what you idiot, the vote is in September
Wow, someone is in a bitter mood. He's referring to the current opinion polls, of course.
So I was correct an idiot
I think, at least on this site, opinion polls are viewed as a useful way to gauge public opinion.
And for the record, word has reached me from SNP insider sources, that orders have come down from on high, that members are expected to bet on a Yes win. As most people are aware, Salmond is a gambler and is using the betting odds as a tactic to try and swing the referendum.
SeanT The Knesset actually has Arab members, name a Jewish member of a Parliament in a Muslim nation?
Didn't the South African parliament have black MPs under apartheid. Doesn't mean much.
It means a damn sight more than you are trying to make out.
Hm, fair enough. I am not sure under what circumstances they were elected in SA, but I recall reading that they had disproportionately less weight than the white minority MPs.
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
I entirely agree.
The fact that some of the smartest people in the world - the Jews - cannot see how their "homeland" is descending into quasi-Fascism is as ironic as it is horribly tragic.
Is that some of the smartest people in the world from the same school of analysis which identifies which type of people can run fast/dance well?
I think you will find that - although I disagree with the basic premise of the science he is using - Sean does have a very well developed hypothesis on IQ based upon racial types.
Where he and I differ is in the relevance of IQ to anything really. But the basic numbers he uses are well founded even if the implications of those numbers are up for debate.
Richard apologies if I mis-read your post that you agreed with any "science" which ascribed differences in intelligence (or IQ which as you say is relevant to nothing least of all intelligence) to race.
I cannot say I am surprised at SeanT's slurs India produces brilliant mathematicians. Arabs invented Numbers. The Egyptians knew the diameter of the Earth.The Chinese? Look how far ahead they were before communism stunted them. Indoctrination and culture hold people back.
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
I entirely agree.
The fact that some of the smartest people in the world - the Jews - cannot see how their "homeland" is descending into quasi-Fascism is as ironic as it is horribly tragic.
Is that some of the smartest people in the world from the same school of analysis which identifies which type of people can run fast/dance well?
Bit hard to quantify dancing, but Nobel prizes and athletics world records might tell you something about correlations between ethnic origin and being smart/running fast.
You mean it tells you which races become scientists?
Why would there be no correlation of natural ability? Do you contend that Kenyans and Ethiopians win so many marathons solely because so many of them take up running as a sport? That seems unlikely to me.
I thought Kenyan and Ethiopian prowess was more related to high altitude living/training than anything genetic; the Afro-Caribbean sprint speed (and, I believe, West African, is physical - related to fast-twitch muscle)
Hmm. I used to bang on about race and IQ for rather trivial and juvenile reasons - that is to say, mainly because it annoyed lefties.
The scientific facts are nonetheless indisputable - there are significant differences between different racial groups in AVERAGE IQ and no one is quite sure why, though there are many ideas.
However these days I tend to leave this argument alone, as the enjoyable angst it provokes in silly bien pensants is not worth the offence it gives to nice people, people that I like and admire.
My daughter is, relatedly, growing up in a very nice multiracial, CofE Faith School and as far I can see she is race-blind at the moment, she barely sees ethnic differences. Her goodness educates me.
This must be the future, if the UK is to prosper. A multiracial country confident in its western, Judaeo-Christian culture, but welcoming of others who accept its basic precepts.
This doesn't stop me calling Israel for what it is, though: a once-admirable country spiralling into brutal, ethnocentric nationalism.
One of the pleasures of long-term posting here is seeing people evolve - and to be fair to Sean he tells us when he's evolved, rather than pretend he always took exactly the same view. Some of us don't evolve as much as we should, I suppose. (Eyes mirror uneasily)
NP And LDs holding off Labour challenges will face the same pressures from Tory tactical voters, so they cancel each other out. Ultimately whichever party has most seats will have a mandate for government
Tory tactical voters are remarkably elusive creatures. Any LibDem who relies upon them is allowing his natural liking for rare species to overcome his political sense.
And for the record, word has reached me from SNP insider sources, that orders have come down from on high, that members are expected to bet on a Yes win. As most people are aware, Salmond is a gambler and is using the betting odds as a tactic to try and swing the referendum.
Seems unlikely. I can see them betting for a yes because heart rules over head, but a deliberate policy to influence the result, not so much.
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
I entirely agree.
The fact that some of the smartest people in the world - the Jews - cannot see how their "homeland" is descending into quasi-Fascism is as ironic as it is horribly tragic.
Is that some of the smartest people in the world from the same school of analysis which identifies which type of people can run fast/dance well?
I think you will find that - although I disagree with the basic premise of the science he is using - Sean does have a very well developed hypothesis on IQ based upon racial types.
Where he and I differ is in the relevance of IQ to anything really. But the basic numbers he uses are well founded even if the implications of those numbers are up for debate.
Richard apologies if I mis-read your post that you agreed with any "science" which ascribed differences in intelligence (or IQ which as you say is relevant to nothing least of all intelligence) to race.
I cannot say I am surprised at SeanT's slurs India produces brilliant mathematicians. Arabs invented Numbers. The Egyptians knew the diameter of the Earth.The Chinese? Look how far ahead they were before communism stunted them. Indoctrination and culture hold people back.
Actually the Arabs borrowed the numbers from India
In other news, Adolf Hitler has apologised to the Jews, by saying "whoops, I'm sorry, I just slipped, these things happen"
So if you want to highlight one loon who apologises what have you got to say about Hamas whose unapologetic Official Policy is the extermination of Israeli's and the destruction of Israel?
I give you the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset, who wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza, steal all their land, slaughter anyone who resists (with deliberate brutality), and then incorporate Gaza into Israel and "repopulate it" with Jews.
The few surviving Arabs who meekly remain will then become official second class citizens in an openly apartheid state.
This man is the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset, and a recently appointed member of Israel's Foreign Affairs Committee.
Zionism = Islamism = Fascism, and that's all there is to it.
John Bercowe is typical of Britain is he. And like his wife is? Your willingness to ascribe an entire nation, and entire race with the words of one person is grotesque, sick even. I suspect you spend most of your life drunk or drugged or both. I feel like I ought to be vomiting not typing.
Hmm. I used to bang on about race and IQ for rather trivial and juvenile reasons - that is to say, mainly because it annoyed lefties.
The scientific facts are nonetheless indisputable - there are significant differences between different racial groups in AVERAGE IQ and no one is quite sure why, though there are many ideas.
However these days I tend to leave this argument alone, as the enjoyable angst it provokes in silly bien pensants is not worth the offence it gives to nice people, people that I like and admire.
My daughter is, relatedly, growing up in a very nice multiracial, CofE Faith School and as far I can see she is race-blind at the moment, she barely sees ethnic differences. Her goodness educates me.
This must be the future, if the UK is to prosper. A multiracial country confident in its western, Judaeo-Christian culture, but welcoming of others who accept its basic precepts.
This doesn't stop me calling Israel for what it is, though: a once-admirable country spiralling into brutal, ethnocentric nationalism.
One of the pleasures of long-term posting here is seeing people evolve - and to be fair to Sean he tells us when he's evolved, rather than pretend he always took exactly the same view. Some of us don't evolve as much as we should, I suppose. (Eyes mirror uneasily)
NP And LDs holding off Labour challenges will face the same pressures from Tory tactical voters, so they cancel each other out. Ultimately whichever party has most seats will have a mandate for government
Tory tactical voters are remarkably elusive creatures. Any LibDem who relies upon them is allowing his natural liking for rare species to overcome his political sense.
Yep Sean sends his daughter to a co-ed school and realises that the theory of ethnic-based intelligence has flaws.
And this is the person who freely calls people racist.
Only on PB. A bit like the labour leadership - Sean and tim have a spat and we get left with the wrong one.
And for the record, word has reached me from SNP insider sources, that orders have come down from on high, that members are expected to bet on a Yes win. As most people are aware, Salmond is a gambler and is using the betting odds as a tactic to try and swing the referendum.
Seems unlikely. I can see them betting for a yes because heart rules over head, but a deliberate policy to influence the result, not so much.
I think the idea of Edin_Rokz having reliable SNP insider sources is more unlikely still.
Edited: There is the Bar in Holyrood, or the basement bar in the Canonsgait (wot Farage got locked in) or for real ale, the Bow Bar, Blue Blazer, Cafe Royal or for Rebus fans, The Oxford!
In other news, Adolf Hitler has apologised to the Jews, by saying "whoops, I'm sorry, I just slipped, these things happen"
So if you want to highlight one loon who apologises what have you got to say about Hamas whose unapologetic Official Policy is the extermination of Israeli's and the destruction of Israel?
I give you the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset, who wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza, steal all their land, slaughter anyone who resists (with deliberate brutality), and then incorporate Gaza into Israel and "repopulate it" with Jews.
The few surviving Arabs who meekly remain will then become official second class citizens in an openly apartheid state.
This man is the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset, and a recently appointed member of Israel's Foreign Affairs Committee.
Zionism = Islamism = Fascism, and that's all there is to it.
John Bercowe is typical of Britain is he. And like his wife is? Your willingness to ascribe an entire nation, and entire race with the words of one person is grotesque, sick even. I suspect you spend most of your life drunk or drugged or both. I feel like I ought to be vomiting not typing.
Maybe try sleeping? Or thinking?
Just an idea.
Like you as clever as you think you are. Dope. A big loud ignorant mouth is what you are.
Sergio Garcia shoots a 61 including 8 birdies on the back 9. Breaks back 9 record, equals course record.
Is that some sort of coded message?
Avast, Mr Llama! Mr B is talking about Golf, perhaps the only sport more boring than Test Cricket!
Thank' ee, Cap'n. 'tis as well you told me because Mr. B.'s explanation and I quote, "Nope - second round at the WGC Bridgestone, Sergio shot a back 9 27" made no more sense than his first message.
Sergio Garcia shoots a 61 including 8 birdies on the back 9. Breaks back 9 record, equals course record.
Is that some sort of coded message?
Avast, Mr Llama! Mr B is talking about Golf, perhaps the only sport more boring than Test Cricket!
Sunil, please report for Tebbit chip inspection.
Data: [laughs] I get it! I get it! When you said "The clown can stay, but the Ferengi in the gorilla suit has to go!" Geordi: Data, what are you talking about? Data: During the Farpoint mission; we were on the bridge, you told a joke, that was the punchline! Geordi: The Farpoint mission? Data, that was seven years ago. Data: I know! I just got it! Very funny!
Sergio Garcia shoots a 61 including 8 birdies on the back 9. Breaks back 9 record, equals course record.
Is that some sort of coded message?
Avast, Mr Llama! Mr B is talking about Golf, perhaps the only sport more boring than Test Cricket!
Sunil, please report for Tebbit chip inspection.
Data: [laughs] I get it! I get it! When you said "The clown can stay, but the Ferengi in the gorilla suit has to go!" Geordi: Data, what are you talking about? Data: During the Farpoint mission; we were on the bridge, you told a joke, that was the punchline! Geordi: The Farpoint mission? Data, that was seven years ago. Data: I know! I just got it! Very funny!
It's just science. There are average racial differences in IQ. No sane scientist disputes this, however, as Richard Tyndall rightly says, many dispute the relevance or salience of the implications.
Following the publication of the Bell Curve, the American Psychological Association conducted the biggest ever study of supposed racial differences in average IQ. It's conclusion?
"There was a long-standing 15 point difference... between the intelligence test scores of African Americans and White Americans, though it might have narrowed slightly in recent years...
"The cause of that differential is not known; it is apparently not due to any simple form of bias .... Several culturally based explanations of the Black/White IQ differential have been proposed; some are plausible, but so far none has been conclusively supported. There is even less empirical support for a genetic interpretation. In short, no adequate explanation of the differential between the IQ means of Blacks and Whites is presently available."
It exists. No one is quite sure why. Disputing it is futile. I prefer to move on, personally.
Eugenics rules! At least in one demented mind. It exists? No one knows why? its meaningless? but hey ho you spout it! What a nice person you are.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/nov/12/race-intelligence-iq-science 'This book should make any sensible person wary of attaching too much value to IQ tests (there's some glorious stuff on the quixotic allotment of IQ ratings) and should make anybody very suspicious of statements about "group IQ" or the presumption that some races are innately more clever than others.'
'American Conservative publisher Ron Unz demolishes the case for genetic IQ-determinism, showing that the data collected by its leading advocates directly contradicts their own theories. .... Using data compiled by Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen, Unz concludes that these international IQ experts misinterpreted their own evidence, which amounts to “a game-ending own-goal against their IQ-determinist side.” Their widely discussed book IQ and the Wealth of Nations claims to demonstrate the fixed nature of national IQ, but it actually does the opposite. Yet progressives who would want to refute the racial thesis have been hesitant to examine the numbers themselves and have remained absent from the debate. '
Sergio Garcia shoots a 61 including 8 birdies on the back 9. Breaks back 9 record, equals course record.
Is that some sort of coded message?
Avast, Mr Llama! Mr B is talking about Golf, perhaps the only sport more boring than Test Cricket!
Thank' ee, Cap'n. 'tis as well you told me because Mr. B.'s explanation and I quote, "Nope - second round at the WGC Bridgestone, Sergio shot a back 9 27" made no more sense than his first message.
Belike
My very dear fellow Mr Llama:
I'll type this slowly as I know you don't read very quickly.
In the second round of the WGC Bridgestone Invitational, at the Firestone Country Club in Akron, Ohio -
Sergio Garcia scored 61 for the round, equalling the course record for low score. He completed the back 9 in 27 shots, birdying every hole except the 11th. That broke the back 9 course record.
Rory McIlroy hit 23 of 28 drives over 300 yards in the first 2 rounds.
This means he beat the living shit out of the ball on numerous occasions, in a manner most people are not able to achieve.
It's just science. There are average racial differences in IQ. No sane scientist disputes this, however, as Richard Tyndall rightly says, many dispute the relevance or salience of the implications.
Following the publication of the Bell Curve, the American Psychological Association conducted the biggest ever study of supposed racial differences in average IQ. It's conclusion?
"There was a long-standing 15 point difference... between the intelligence test scores of African Americans and White Americans, though it might have narrowed slightly in recent years...
"The cause of that differential is not known; it is apparently not due to any simple form of bias .... Several culturally based explanations of the Black/White IQ differential have been proposed; some are plausible, but so far none has been conclusively supported. There is even less empirical support for a genetic interpretation. In short, no adequate explanation of the differential between the IQ means of Blacks and Whites is presently available."
It exists. No one is quite sure why. Disputing it is futile. I prefer to move on, personally.
Here is just one alternative for Mr SeanT http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120807006238/en/American-Conservative-Debunks-“Genetic-IQ-Determinism”#.U9wZBqP1rdk Using data compiled by Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen, Unz concludes that these international IQ experts misinterpreted their own evidence, which amounts to “a game-ending own-goal against their IQ-determinist side.” Their widely discussed book IQ and the Wealth of Nations claims to demonstrate the fixed nature of national IQ, but it actually does the opposite.
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
I entirely agree.
The fact that some of the smartest people in the world - the Jews - cannot see how their "homeland" is descending into quasi-Fascism is as ironic as it is horribly tragic.
Is that some of the smartest people in the world from the same school of analysis which identifies which type of people can run fast/dance well?
I think you will find that - although I disagree with the basic premise of the science he is using - Sean does have a very well developed hypothesis on IQ based upon racial types.
Where he and I differ is in the relevance of IQ to anything really. But the basic numbers he uses are well founded even if the implications of those numbers are up for debate.
Richard apologies if I mis-read your post that you agreed with any "science" which ascribed differences in intelligence (or IQ which as you say is relevant to nothing least of all intelligence) to race.
I cannot say I am surprised at SeanT's slurs India produces brilliant mathematicians. Arabs invented Numbers. The Egyptians knew the diameter of the Earth.The Chinese? Look how far ahead they were before communism stunted them. Indoctrination and culture hold people back.
Arabs invented numbers? Wtf are you on about? Do you think the Old Kingdom Egyptians counted one, two, many? Or that the Sumerians didnt have a working sexegesimal system by 3000 BC? Racist nonsense of the worst kind.
What Egyptians knew the diameter of the earth, please? And how did they quantify it, in those bad old pre Arabic days?
And what has any of this to do with the claim that there are small average differences in all kinds of things between races, including intelligence? Not big enough to divide the untermenschen from the ubermenschen, but big enough to be mildly interesting.
Sergio Garcia shoots a 61 including 8 birdies on the back 9. Breaks back 9 record, equals course record.
Is that some sort of coded message?
Avast, Mr Llama! Mr B is talking about Golf, perhaps the only sport more boring than Test Cricket!
Sunil, please report for Tebbit chip inspection.
Data: [laughs] I get it! I get it! When you said "The clown can stay, but the Ferengi in the gorilla suit has to go!" Geordi: Data, what are you talking about? Data: During the Farpoint mission; we were on the bridge, you told a joke, that was the punchline! Geordi: The Farpoint mission? Data, that was seven years ago. Data: I know! I just got it! Very funny!
Wrong chip, Sunil :')
[Sunil scans for lifeforms by-election results] Sunil: I would be happy to, sir. I just *love* scanning for by-election results! [sings] By-election results! You tiny little by-election results! You precious little by-election results! Where are you?
''Like you as clever as you think you are. Dope. A big loud ignorant mouth is what you are.
"Like you as clever" was a good start but then your cognitive defect kicked in, didn't it, and you started drooling?
Ah well''
You getting all uptight about typos now? Maybe my IQ is not up to it. Give me a test aged 10, mark me out for a suitable role in your brave new world. Race and IQ... have no worries, I know what kind of person you are.
Sergio Garcia shoots a 61 including 8 birdies on the back 9. Breaks back 9 record, equals course record.
Is that some sort of coded message?
Avast, Mr Llama! Mr B is talking about Golf, perhaps the only sport more boring than Test Cricket!
Thank' ee, Cap'n. 'tis as well you told me because Mr. B.'s explanation and I quote, "Nope - second round at the WGC Bridgestone, Sergio shot a back 9 27" made no more sense than his first message.
Belike
My very dear fellow Mr Llama:
I'll type this slowly as I know you don't read very quickly.
In the second round of the WGC Bridgestone Invitational, at the Firestone Country Club in Akron, Ohio -
Sergio Garcia scored 61 for the round, equalling the course record for low score. He completed the back 9 in 27 shots, birdying every hole except the 11th. That broke the back 9 course record.
Rory McIlroy hit 23 of 28 drives over 300 yards in the first 2 rounds.
This means he beat the living shit out of the ball on numerous occasions, in a manner most people are not able to achieve.
Is that decoded enough for you? :-)
Mr. B., Thank you for trying. Now that Cap'n Doc, has told me that you are talking about golf I can start making some educated guesses as to what you are on about. Honestly, I wouldn't have had a clue otherwise.
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
I entirely agree.
The fact that some of the smartest people in the world - the Jews - cannot see how their "homeland" is descending into quasi-Fascism is as ironic as it is horribly tragic.
Is that some of the smartest people in the world from the same school of analysis which identifies which type of people can run fast/dance well?
I think you will find that - although I disagree with the basic premise of the science he is using - Sean does have a very well developed hypothesis on IQ based upon racial types.
Where he and I differ is in the relevance of IQ to anything really. But the basic numbers he uses are well founded even if the implications of those numbers are up for debate.
"science"..."IQ based upon racial types"...Bell Curve...
Absolute utter, utter bollocks.
Surprised because you have always seemed a sensible type.
Sorry Topping you misunderstand me. I agree with you. Sean and I had many arguments about this a year or more ago as I tend to the idea that IQ tests tell you nothing about a person but their ability to pass IQ tests.
All I was doing was pointing out the rational if disputed basis for Sean's comments. I did try to make clear that I disagree with his conclusions but you seem to have missed that bit.
Edit: I see you have seen that. The curse of answering a post before reading the whole thread. :-)
Considering how important the Scots referendum is to the UK, I have not seen much coverage on the campaign. If they do vote to become independent, Cameron could face having to resign.
As for the coverage, official campaign or no, there's been background stuff filtering through even to the politically unconcerned for more than a year, so not as much ramping up as might seem necessary perhaps, or still keeping their powder dry for the final burst at the end perhaps.
As for Cameron resigning, I think he could well make that choice - though the outcome is not down to him really, and he didn't set things in motion, he would still be the PM who oversaw the demise of the UK - although apparently he won't do it. If enough of his backbenchers, so close to the GE, can be persuaded it is a good thing, that they can focus on a Tory majority in England alone, he might not even face that much pressure.
What will Darling's reward be if No do win is what I wonder though.
As a former holder of one of the 4 great offices of state Darling is automatically entitled to a Peerage if he wants one. However he may get a specific honour like the next vacancy in the Order of the Thistle though that may be some time away as the Queen has just installed both Lord Smith of Kelvin and the Earl of Home.
He should be in jail along with his other buddies
Or Mr Salmond for lying to the public, MacAskill for lying, Sturgeon for not telling the truth but not lying, Hyslop for being incompetent, Any more suggestions. Oh! Sorry, forgot that Salmond was an MP at Westminster so he is allowed.
good job there has been no question of the SNP abusing expenses then .....
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
I entirely agree.
The fact that some of the smartest people in the world - the Jews - cannot see how their "homeland" is descending into quasi-Fascism is as ironic as it is horribly tragic.
Is that some of the smartest people in the world from the same school of analysis which identifies which type of people can run fast/dance well?
I think you will find that - although I disagree with the basic premise of the science he is using - Sean does have a very well developed hypothesis on IQ based upon racial types.
Where he and I differ is in the relevance of IQ to anything really. But the basic numbers he uses are well founded even if the implications of those numbers are up for debate.
Richard apologies if I mis-read your post that you agreed with any "science" which ascribed differences in intelligence (or IQ which as you say is relevant to nothing least of all intelligence) to race.
Indoctrination and culture hold people back.
Arabs invented numbers? Wtf are you on about? Do you think the Old Kingdom Egyptians counted one, two, many? Or that the Sumerians didnt have a working sexegesimal system by 3000 BC? Racist nonsense of the worst kind.
What Egyptians knew the diameter of the earth, please? And how did they quantify it, in those bad old pre Arabic days?
And what has any of this to do with the claim that there are small average differences in all kinds of things between races, including intelligence? Not big enough to divide the untermenschen from the ubermenschen, but big enough to be mildly interesting.
"What Egyptians knew the diameter of the earth, please? And how did they quantify it, in those bad old pre Arabic days?"
Stadiums (the ancient greek distance measuring unit), as the greeks calculated the diameter of the earth while in egypt, measuring the difference of the angle of shadows between 2 different latitudes at mid day and measuring the distance between those locations. Since the earth is a sphere, you divide 360 degrees by the difference of angle of the shadows and multiply it by the distance to get the diameter.
What Egyptians knew the diameter of the earth, please?
Please Sir!!!
Eratosthenes?
Well Eratosthenes did live, work and die in Alexandria so that the claim the Egyptians knew the diameter of the earth is definitely true, for some value of Egyptian. I got the impression though that the original poster was making the claim for the Egyptians of an earlier period.
What Egyptians knew the diameter of the earth, please?
Please Sir!!!
Eratosthenes?
Yes you are right. Shows the benefits of immigration I suppose.
Egypt was conquered and ruled by the greeks at that time all the way to Cleopatra. So does it show the benefits of being conquered by a more educated people?
And for the record, word has reached me from SNP insider sources, that orders have come down from on high, that members are expected to bet on a Yes win. As most people are aware, Salmond is a gambler and is using the betting odds as a tactic to try and swing the referendum.
John Curtice has his finger on the pulse usually and he finds no change in the polls since May.Yes has been on 43% and remains on 43%.There has been and will be a lot of noise but nothing has really changed and my guess is it will stay that way,very boring in fact.I'm on 40-45 and continue to see no reason to change.
Comments
You need not worry about the retraction of the pro-genocide argument. It was made again by a Times of Israel writer today:
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/1-samuel-1518/#ixzz39AIQIcls
Israel no longer seems to be a Western liberal democracy that shares our values. It is instead another sectarian Middle Eastern state whose hatred of the other tribes overcomes any sentiment of decency.
I've stated my view - the priority for the Party must be to win as many seats and votes as possible (that order dictated by FPTP of course). On that hinges everything but the influence of the LD seat total is governed by the seat totals of the Conservative and Labour parties. If the LDs fall to 30 seats, then 295-295-30 makes life interesting while 315-275-30 provides a clearer picture.
Where he and I differ is in the relevance of IQ to anything really. But the basic numbers he uses are well founded even if the implications of those numbers are up for debate.
Absolute utter, utter bollocks.
Surprised because you have always seemed a sensible type.
As I predicted.
This will be an absolute killer for the UKIP position, which relies on two mutually-incompatible propositions:
- That we can negotiate full access to the Single Market, including (crucially for the UK) for Services, and
- That we can do this without conceding the free movement of workers.
They ain't both gonna happen: it's Either/Or.
MalcolmG Accepted
India produces brilliant mathematicians. Arabs invented Numbers. The Egyptians knew the diameter of the Earth.The Chinese? Look how far ahead they were before communism stunted them.
Indoctrination and culture hold people back.
Your willingness to ascribe an entire nation, and entire race with the words of one person is grotesque, sick even.
I suspect you spend most of your life drunk or drugged or both. I feel like I ought to be vomiting not typing.
And this is the person who freely calls people racist.
Only on PB. A bit like the labour leadership - Sean and tim have a spat and we get left with the wrong one.
Edited: There is the Bar in Holyrood, or the basement bar in the Canonsgait (wot Farage got locked in) or for real ale, the Bow Bar, Blue Blazer, Cafe Royal or for Rebus fans, The Oxford!
Quod.
Erat.
Demonstrandum.
Rory McIlroy hit 23 of 28 drives over 300 yards in the first 2 rounds
"Nope - second round at the WGC Bridgestone, Sergio shot a back 9 27" made no more sense than his first message.
Belike
Data: [laughs] I get it! I get it! When you said "The clown can stay, but the Ferengi in the gorilla suit has to go!"
Geordi: Data, what are you talking about?
Data: During the Farpoint mission; we were on the bridge, you told a joke, that was the punchline!
Geordi: The Farpoint mission? Data, that was seven years ago.
Data: I know! I just got it! Very funny!
Vote again?
I'll type this slowly as I know you don't read very quickly.
In the second round of the WGC Bridgestone Invitational, at the Firestone Country Club in Akron, Ohio -
Sergio Garcia scored 61 for the round, equalling the course record for low score. He completed the back 9 in 27 shots, birdying every hole except the 11th. That broke the back 9 course record.
Rory McIlroy hit 23 of 28 drives over 300 yards in the first 2 rounds.
This means he beat the living shit out of the ball on numerous occasions, in a manner most people are not able to achieve.
Is that decoded enough for you? :-)
Here is just one alternative for Mr SeanT
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120807006238/en/American-Conservative-Debunks-“Genetic-IQ-Determinism”#.U9wZBqP1rdk
Using data compiled by Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen, Unz concludes that these international IQ experts misinterpreted their own evidence, which amounts to “a game-ending own-goal against their IQ-determinist side.” Their widely discussed book IQ and the Wealth of Nations claims to demonstrate the fixed nature of national IQ, but it actually does the opposite.
OK 2
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/nov/12/race-intelligence-iq-science
Race and intelligence: A sorry tale of shoddy science
The Mismeasure of Man by Stephen Jay Gould exposes the shameful history of research into race and IQ
What Egyptians knew the diameter of the earth, please? And how did they quantify it, in those bad old pre Arabic days?
And what has any of this to do with the claim that there are small average differences in all kinds of things between races, including intelligence? Not big enough to divide the untermenschen from the ubermenschen, but big enough to be mildly interesting.
lifeformsby-election results]Sunil: I would be happy to, sir. I just *love* scanning for by-election results!
[sings]
By-election results! You tiny little by-election results! You precious little by-election results! Where are you?
Please Sir!!!
Eratosthenes?
hello mr T
''Like you as clever as you think you are. Dope. A big loud ignorant mouth is what you are.
"Like you as clever" was a good start but then your cognitive defect kicked in, didn't it, and you started drooling?
Ah well''
You getting all uptight about typos now? Maybe my IQ is not up to it. Give me a test aged 10, mark me out for a suitable role in your brave new world.
Race and IQ... have no worries, I know what kind of person you are.
All I was doing was pointing out the rational if disputed basis for Sean's comments. I did try to make clear that I disagree with his conclusions but you seem to have missed that bit.
Edit: I see you have seen that. The curse of answering a post before reading the whole thread. :-)
What it actually shows are the benefits of watching Carl Sagan's Cosmos.
Stadiums (the ancient greek distance measuring unit), as the greeks calculated the diameter of the earth while in egypt, measuring the difference of the angle of shadows between 2 different latitudes at mid day and measuring the distance between those locations.
Since the earth is a sphere, you divide 360 degrees by the difference of angle of the shadows and multiply it by the distance to get the diameter.
So does it show the benefits of being conquered by a more educated people?
http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2014/07/panelbase-still-put-no-ahead/