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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Harry Hayfield’s Local By-Election Preview: July 24th 2014

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  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    FPT

    Forget the anti semitic slur rubbish, this is the reason for the "north London" prefix when talking about some Labour types, and Ed Miliband in particular

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/culturehousedaily/2014/07/the-snobbery-of-farmers-markets-makes-me-want-to-run-to-the-nearest-morrisons/

    What a pathetic article. Ignorant, patronising and dripping with snobby contempt for working people.

    No wonder a UKIP cheerleader likes it.
    Farmers markets are where middle class wallies over pay for normal food while pretending theyre saving small businesses.. its the middle class version of the emporers new clothes

    And as I said on the last thread, I have been guilty of indulging in it myself, so no need to start crying into an organically recycled tissue about it "Hugh"

    Oh what bullshit UkipSam.

    People enjoy something funky to do on a weekend morning, even if theyre the dumb and filthy types you Kippers imagine working people are like
    Have you been ?!!
    you...
    Shhh Hugh and Bob think that's where working class people go for the weekend shop
    Do you consider yourself to be working class?
    How do you define it? I would have thought so

    I am happy to meet you face to face or you can look me up on social media
    I'm sure you are a decent bloke - just having a bad night.

    Isn't your dad a teacher and you run a electricians' company? If you are working class then so I am because I'm from a working class background. We'd probably have a lot more in common than you think but yet you sneer tonight for reasons known only to yourself.
    I'm not having a bad night at all, you have jumped to conclusions and mis read my intention. Now you find yourself trying to make a farmers markets a working class thing, which we all know they aren't


    My dad was a labourer til he was 36 then was a sports coach at a school in Dagenham now he is a teaching assistant. My mum worked in woolworthd in hornchurch, then for tower hamlets council in the treasury dept, now part time in boots in hx. I worked as an odds compiler for a bookmaker, now zero hours contract for a bookie

    Look me up on social media, or meet me before you slag me, or at least don't hide behind an alias, same for you @hugh
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Hugh said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Hugh said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    UKIPSam thinks a postie and their family shouldnt potter round a farmers market on Sunday morning, and spend their time getting angry about foreigners whilst reading the Express instead.

    voice of the people

    Haha! yeah posties on 20k a year with families pay £6 for locally resourced pulled pork burgers do they? Brilliant, so out of touch, thank god I'm never voting labour again
    And almost all foreigners die shortly after birth because of not having the NHS.

    Remind me, were there farmers markets in the Olympics opening ceremony?

    Like ScottP, you never have an opinion of your own.

    But you managed a whole post without trolling a non-Tory before reverting to troll, so well done you!

    Exposing ludicrous misinformation as ludicrous misinformation, is not trolling. If you don't like it, try thinking and researching a bit before applying digit to keyboard.

    And my opinions are my own. Yours are a misunderstood rehash of something tim said the year before last.

    No offence.

    No offence taken.

    I've rarely seen you post an on-topic comment or opinion, I've only ever seen you attack non-Tory posters for their opinion. Which, of course, is pathetic trolling.

    No offence.
    You don't seem to understand what a debate is. Or a fact. And after your magnificent NHS bellyflop I seriously advise you to change your name; there is just no way back from that.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,813
    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    MikeK said:

    Has anyone noticed that the summer weather in London in July 2014 closely resembles the the summer in London of July 1914. Then as now, it was hot and humid. Then as now rumbles of war from distant places were making themselves heard.

    But we have learned a lot in 100 years, haven't we?

    To leave well alone ?

    If we had sat it out we'd have had no WW1, no WW2 and the EU would be a Franco-German empire (with the difference that no one would ever have suggested we join it).

    You're making rather a massive leap. The wars we had would not have played out in the same way, but it doesn't mean things would've been great, or even better, than they were.
    Can I blame the Liberals for the problems in the Middle East?

    The Balfour declaration happened under a Liberal PM?

    The things those Conservatives get up to when your back is turned.

    It was also the Liberals who invaded and occupied Egypt.
    I blame the PM, Lloyd George also lost us Ireland and well, don't even get me started on Sykes-Picot

    Plus he ruined the House of Lords.
    And gave women and poor men the vote.

    (Also pfsh. Blame the Conservatives, the only way Ireland was staying was if Gladstone's plans for home rule and a sort of extremely devolved Ireland were met).
    Have you noticed the country has gone downhill since we gave women the vote.

    We used to have an EMPIRE, AN EMPIRE, now look at us.
    Point of order, the British Empire was at it's largest extent in 1921.

    (Churchill staunchly opposed women voting, believed that if they really did wish to express their views they could do so via fathers/brothers/husbands).
    But its power was waning (albeit slowly) after what is widely regarded to be its peak -1850, the year of the great exhibition. Extent of colonial possessions is really a sign of weakness, not power. When Britain was out in front of the pack, we had 'spheres of influence'. When others caught up, we needed to put a garrison in and fly a flag. You can see it with America now. Tendency to invade, because the sands of time are running out. Different era, same story.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    TOPPING said:

    BobaFett said:

    Feck me, you'll all be claiming you use gravel to wipe yer arses and own whippets next.
    PB reminds me why I'm so lucky to live far away from that there London.

    As far as I know, there are markets all over the country - hardly exclusively a London thing
    very funny. All over the country there are markets selling local stuff. In London there are "farmers markets" selling volunteer pulled pork baps and stupidly named burgers for £8 a pop. And not to postmen either.

    Seriously have you been to Borough market? You can get every type of cheese and olive and artisan bolleaux but search in vain for a bowl of cauli at a pound.
    Been there a couple of times. Great for bizarre deli ingredients but as you say seriously lacking when it comes to basics. My local market is once every four weeks and does great burgers for £4. It also carries loads of poultry and game from the surrounding county for reasonable prices.

    Really can't see where all this venom comes from. Not sure why Sam hates some people so much.
    You are trolling now, you must be half cut

    I never said anything nasty about anyone let alone hate. I admitted I've been to these places I just acknowledge they're pretentious

    But I don't hide behind an alias, I will meet you face to face and you can judge for yourself. Or are you on Facebook, or twitter?
    Theyre fun. Same goes for posh meals, days out, whatever.

    Working people enjoy stuff too you know. Ask some of your workers,
    You are really mugging yourself... Why would I have workers?

    Are you mental?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Funnily enough our office is next door to Borough Market. You can certainly get trays of veg for £1 if that's what you want; or very tasty German hot dogs for £3.50; or burgers for £5; and so on. You can also taste most stuff for free. Or you can pay a fortune for some very smelly cheese. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it's more than sanctimonious greens who pack the place out. But if it comforts folk to think otherwise, so be it.

    Fancy hating someone because they shop in a farmers' market. Isn't life a bit too short for that?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,875
    Interesting results from some Pew and Reason polls showing the contradictions in the principle that the younger generation leans right

    “Conservatives can say: 65 per cent of Millennials would like to cut spending… Liberals can say: 62 per cent would like to spend more on infrastructure and jobs…

    “Conservatives can say: 58 per cent of Millennials want to cut taxes overall… Liberals can say: 66 per cent want to raise taxes on the wealthy…

    “Conservatives can say: 57 per cent want smaller government with fewer services (if you mention the magic word ‘taxes’)… Liberals can say: 54 per cent want larger government with more services (if you don’t mention ‘taxes’).”

    When respondents were asked to choose between ‘socialism’ and ‘capitalism’, the margin in favour of the latter was only ten per cent; but that when the choice was between a ‘government managed economy’ and a ‘free market economy’, the rightwing option was ahead by 32 per cent.
    http://www.conservativehome.com/the-deep-end/2014/07/just-how-encouraged-should-we-be-by-generation-right.html
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    BobaFett said:

    @Isam

    If you dish out personal insults like calling people mugs, you have to be prepared to take it back.

    Whatever, I am happy to drop it. I don't need to meet you to know you are a good guy, that's obvious.

    Some of us, sadly, don't have the privilege of being able to go public.

    You said I hated North Londoners... My family are from North London... You are not... So you should belt up
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    It's too hot to think - I think I'll retire early and spend several hours failing to sleep and searching for one cool bit of pillow for comfort. How people in places which regularly have worse temperatures cope, short of siestaing and then going to be at 3am, I do not know.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Puguf said:

    Hi Harry, Like your detailed analysis of the council by-elections, but can you use a spellchecker on your content: it's is a contraction of "it is", its (no apostrophe) implies possession, so it's "its name", "its domination" and "its connections".

    Hi Puguf loving your first contribution.

    As a point of information, a comma is not usually followed by a capital letter.

    Your welcome.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,115
    edited July 2014
    Ishmael_X said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    UKIPSam thinks a postie and their family shouldnt potter round a farmers market on Sunday morning, and spend their time getting angry about foreigners whilst reading the Express instead.

    voice of the people

    Haha! yeah posties on 20k a year with families pay £6 for locally resourced pulled pork burgers do they? Brilliant, so out of touch, thank god I'm never voting labour again
    And almost all foreigners die shortly after birth because of not having the NHS.

    Remind me, were there farmers markets in the Olympics opening ceremony?

    Remember those "Death Panels" many Americans reckon we have!
    Puguf said:

    Hi Harry, Like your detailed analysis of the council by-elections, but can you use a spellchecker on your content: it's is a contraction of "it is", its (no apostrophe) implies possession, so it's "its name", "its domination" and "its connections".

    @Puguf

    Welcome to the PB Grammar Police (1st Regiment)!
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Time for a self disintegration.

    The final post from BobaFett.

    Goodbyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @HYUFD
    That's because a large percentage think the "free market" is shoplifting.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,813
    TOPPING said:

    Puguf said:

    Hi Harry, Like your detailed analysis of the council by-elections, but can you use a spellchecker on your content: it's is a contraction of "it is", its (no apostrophe) implies possession, so it's "its name", "its domination" and "its connections".

    Hi Puguf loving your first contribution.

    As a point of information, a comma is not usually followed by a capital letter.

    Your welcome.

    I think you mean 'You're welcome.'.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    SeanT said:

    I'd just like it noted the the mods have prevented me from calling the disgusting, smelly, aborted little iguana's fetus Mr Topping a ******* ******** ** * **** ***********.

    So if you complain I am not as spiky or insulting as I used to be, there's yer answer.

    I'm sure I was not alone in seeing it up briefly before it was removed, so take comfort that the effort was not entirely lost, even if it is to posterity I guess.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,115
    BobaFett said:

    Time for a self disintegration.

    The final post from BobaFett.

    Goodbyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    We didn't mean to knock you into the maw of the Mighty Sarlacc!!
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    TOPPING said:

    Puguf said:

    Hi Harry, Like your detailed analysis of the council by-elections, but can you use a spellchecker on your content: it's is a contraction of "it is", its (no apostrophe) implies possession, so it's "its name", "its domination" and "its connections".

    Hi Puguf loving your first contribution.

    As a point of information, a comma is not usually followed by a capital letter.

    Your welcome.

    I think you mean 'You're welcome.'.
    I think you may have missed the joke :-)
  • On the subject of Farmer's Market:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afY4v0y4fL4
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    TOPPING said:

    Puguf said:

    Hi Harry, Like your detailed analysis of the council by-elections, but can you use a spellchecker on your content: it's is a contraction of "it is", its (no apostrophe) implies possession, so it's "its name", "its domination" and "its connections".

    Hi Puguf loving your first contribution.

    As a point of information, a comma is not usually followed by a capital letter.

    Your welcome.

    I think you mean 'You're welcome.'.
    Too many full stops in that sentence.

    I think the heat is getting to everyone.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Funnily enough our office is next door to Borough Market. You can certainly get trays of veg for £1 if that's what you want; or very tasty German hot dogs for £3.50; or burgers for £5; and so on. You can also taste most stuff for free. Or you can pay a fortune for some very smelly cheese. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it's more than sanctimonious greens who pack the place out. But if it comforts folk to think otherwise, so be it.

    Fancy hating someone because they shop in a farmers' market. Isn't life a bit too short for that?

    It probably is.. but no one has said it, so why mention that?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    edited July 2014
    SeanT said:

    I'd just like it noted the the mods have prevented me from calling the disgusting, smelly, aborted little iguana's fetus Mr Topping a ******* ******** ** * **** ***********.

    So if you complain I am not as spiky or insulting as I used to be, there's yer answer.

    Oh god! Don't tell me the puligny was off. No wonder you're in a bad mood.

    Because nothing in my post should have upset you. Or does the truth hurt?

    Edit: are the middle ones "of a"?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,813

    TOPPING said:

    Puguf said:

    Hi Harry, Like your detailed analysis of the council by-elections, but can you use a spellchecker on your content: it's is a contraction of "it is", its (no apostrophe) implies possession, so it's "its name", "its domination" and "its connections".

    Hi Puguf loving your first contribution.

    As a point of information, a comma is not usually followed by a capital letter.

    Your welcome.

    I think you mean 'You're welcome.'.
    I think you may have missed the joke :-)
    Oh. :)
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    isam said:

    Funnily enough our office is next door to Borough Market. You can certainly get trays of veg for £1 if that's what you want; or very tasty German hot dogs for £3.50; or burgers for £5; and so on. You can also taste most stuff for free. Or you can pay a fortune for some very smelly cheese. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it's more than sanctimonious greens who pack the place out. But if it comforts folk to think otherwise, so be it.

    Fancy hating someone because they shop in a farmers' market. Isn't life a bit too short for that?

    It probably is.. but no one has said it, so why mention that?

    The author of the article you linked to seemed to have a lot of hate in her. Maybe she was putting it on. I bet she shops in farmers' markets too.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Can people leave off controversial subjects like farmers' markets and stick to polite topics that are unlikely to blow up into huge rows like the situation in Gaza?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    On the subject of Farmer's Market:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afY4v0y4fL4

    Haha
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    SeanT said:

    Israeli media spox Mark Regev was just disembowelled by (Jewish) Emily Maitlis on Newsnight.

    Israel is seriously struggling with the PR, here. Totally flailing.

    Israel hasn't had good PR for at least a decade now. I reckon they've given up, because they figure they'll never get support while the Palestinians are the underdogs and because they don't find the bad PR particularly impedes them from doing what they want to anyway.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    SeanT said:

    Israeli media spox Mark Regev was just disembowelled by (Jewish) Emily Maitlis on Newsnight.

    Israel is seriously struggling with the PR, here. Totally flailing.

    Yes, I agree that Israeli PR has always been a week spot in it's arsenal.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    UKIP in with a chance in Walsall? Already up 3 this year I note.

    Also, what is it like to be the lone member of a party on a council, particularly a major party in a large council, like the Labour member who for a time was 1 out of more than 100 in Cornwall. Seems like it would be a bit surreal.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Funnily enough our office is next door to Borough Market. You can certainly get trays of veg for £1 if that's what you want; or very tasty German hot dogs for £3.50; or burgers for £5; and so on. You can also taste most stuff for free. Or you can pay a fortune for some very smelly cheese. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it's more than sanctimonious greens who pack the place out. But if it comforts folk to think otherwise, so be it.

    Fancy hating someone because they shop in a farmers' market. Isn't life a bit too short for that?

    It probably is.. but no one has said it, so why mention that?

    The author of the article you linked to seemed to have a lot of hate in her. Maybe she was putting it on. I bet she shops in farmers' markets too.

    Oh so no one said it
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Neil said:

    Can people leave off controversial subjects like farmers' markets and stick to polite topics that are unlikely to blow up into huge rows like the situation in Gaza?

    LOL
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    SeanT said:

    Israeli media spox Mark Regev was just disembowelled by (Jewish) Emily Maitlis on Newsnight.

    Israel is seriously struggling with the PR, here. Totally flailing.

    I think the only explanation of Israel at the moment is that they have gone mad with fear. Understandably. I'm bloody frightened of militant Islam and I am a goy living in rural Devon. They are real Jews living in Israel and surrounded by Arabs and the Arabs have nukes. It must be like expecting every day to turn out to be 9/11 and you and your family at the top of the South Tower.

    None of which excuses the death of a single child in Gaza, but it explains it a bit.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited July 2014
    BritainElects ‏@britainelects 1m
    Aberaman North (Rhondda) result:
    LAB - 39.4% (-30.0)
    IND - 30.6% (+30.6)
    PC - 25.2% (-5.3)
    TUSC - 2.5% (+2.5)
    CON - 2.2% (+2.2)

    Wot! No UKIP?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,813
    MikeK said:

    SeanT said:

    Israeli media spox Mark Regev was just disembowelled by (Jewish) Emily Maitlis on Newsnight.

    Israel is seriously struggling with the PR, here. Totally flailing.

    Yes, I agree that Israeli PR has always been a week spot in it's arsenal.
    Yes, their PR is undoubtedly where they've been going wrong.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited July 2014
    Quincel said:

    SeanT said:

    Israeli media spox Mark Regev was just disembowelled by (Jewish) Emily Maitlis on Newsnight.

    Israel is seriously struggling with the PR, here. Totally flailing.

    Israel hasn't had good PR for at least a decade now. I reckon they've given up, because they figure they'll never get support while the Palestinians are the underdogs and because they don't find the bad PR particularly impedes them from doing what they want to anyway.
    Sounds plausible. The region's such a mess the PR going against them isn't enough to make backers actually change tack in any significant way, so why cater to it.

    Perhaps this is a silly question, but for those with a better take on the history of the Israel/Palestine conflict, has there been any improvement at all in the last 20 or so years, or is it as it seems - eternally awful? Or has it actually gotten worse?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,115
    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    MikeK said:

    Has anyone noticed that the summer weather in London in July 2014 closely resembles the the summer in London of July 1914. Then as now, it was hot and humid. Then as now rumbles of war from distant places were making themselves heard.

    But we have learned a lot in 100 years, haven't we?

    To leave well alone ?

    If we had sat it out we'd have had no WW1, no WW2 and the EU would be a Franco-German empire (with the difference that no one would ever have suggested we join it).

    You're making rather a massive leap. The wars we had would not have played out in the same way, but it doesn't mean things would've been great, or even better, than they were.
    Can I blame the Liberals for the problems in the Middle East?

    The Balfour declaration happened under a Liberal PM?

    The things those Conservatives get up to when your back is turned.

    It was also the Liberals who invaded and occupied Egypt.
    I blame the PM, Lloyd George also lost us Ireland and well, don't even get me started on Sykes-Picot

    Plus he ruined the House of Lords.
    And gave women and poor men the vote.

    (Also pfsh. Blame the Conservatives, the only way Ireland was staying was if Gladstone's plans for home rule and a sort of extremely devolved Ireland were met).
    Have you noticed the country has gone downhill since we gave women the vote.

    We used to have an EMPIRE, AN EMPIRE, now look at us.
    Point of order, the British Empire was at it's largest extent in 1921.
    Except for the Irish Free State :)

    Actually the net result of WW1 British Empire-wise was loss of the Free State and "influence" over Afghanistan, but gain of Tanganyika, Namibia (c/o South Africa), part of Cameroon (now eastern Nigeria), part of Togo (now part of Ghana), Iraq, Palestine, Jordan, Egypt, Cyprus (formally), northeastern New Guinea (c/o Australia), and Western Samoa (c/o New Zealand).
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Funnily enough our office is next door to Borough Market. You can certainly get trays of veg for £1 if that's what you want; or very tasty German hot dogs for £3.50; or burgers for £5; and so on. You can also taste most stuff for free. Or you can pay a fortune for some very smelly cheese. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it's more than sanctimonious greens who pack the place out. But if it comforts folk to think otherwise, so be it.

    Fancy hating someone because they shop in a farmers' market. Isn't life a bit too short for that?

    It probably is.. but no one has said it, so why mention that?

    The author of the article you linked to seemed to have a lot of hate in her. Maybe she was putting it on. I bet she shops in farmers' markets too.

    Oh so no one said it

    Yes, I know. As explained previously I was commenting on the article you linked to.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    MikeK said:

    BritainElects ‏@britainelects 1m
    Aberaman North (Rhondda) result:
    LAB - 39.4% (-30.0)
    IND - 30.6% (+30.6)
    PC - 25.2% (-5.3)
    TUSC - 2.5% (+2.5)
    CON - 2.2% (+2.2)

    Wot! No UKIP?

    Was the IND rebel Labour ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,115
    kle4 said:

    Quincel said:

    SeanT said:

    Israeli media spox Mark Regev was just disembowelled by (Jewish) Emily Maitlis on Newsnight.

    Israel is seriously struggling with the PR, here. Totally flailing.

    Israel hasn't had good PR for at least a decade now. I reckon they've given up, because they figure they'll never get support while the Palestinians are the underdogs and because they don't find the bad PR particularly impedes them from doing what they want to anyway.
    Sounds plausible. The region's such a mess the PR going against them isn't enough to make backers actually change tack in any significant way, so why cater to it.

    Perhaps this is a silly question, but for those with a better take on the history of the Israel/Palestine conflict, has there been any improvement at all in the last 20 or so years, or is it as it seems - eternally awful? Or has it actually gotten worse?
    It's certainly worse than the heady days of Oslo 1993.
  • manofkent2014manofkent2014 Posts: 1,543
    edited July 2014
    Not that I wish to get embroiled in the debate about farmers markets in North London but people do realise that it was written by that hideous exemplar of urban liberal feminist elitist political crassness Julie Bindel.

    Frankly it is exactly the sort of sneering down the nose condescension and snobbery one would associate with one of the ruling Guardianista sect of the cult of Islington.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Just had a quick look in, seems like a quiet evening on PB!
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    kle4 said:

    Quincel said:

    SeanT said:

    Israeli media spox Mark Regev was just disembowelled by (Jewish) Emily Maitlis on Newsnight.

    Israel is seriously struggling with the PR, here. Totally flailing.

    Israel hasn't had good PR for at least a decade now. I reckon they've given up, because they figure they'll never get support while the Palestinians are the underdogs and because they don't find the bad PR particularly impedes them from doing what they want to anyway.
    Sounds plausible. The region's such a mess the PR going against them isn't enough to make backers actually change tack in any significant way, so why cater to it.

    Perhaps this is a silly question, but for those with a better take on the history of the Israel/Palestine conflict, has there been any improvement at all in the last 20 or so years, or is it as it seems - eternally awful? Or has it actually gotten worse?
    Trouble with Israel, is most if not all of it's bright sparks and go-getters have gone into IT and not into Government or PR.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Neil said:

    Can people leave off controversial subjects like farmers' markets and stick to polite topics that are unlikely to blow up into huge rows like the situation in Gaza?

    Zing.
    Ishmael_X said:

    SeanT said:

    Israeli media spox Mark Regev was just disembowelled by (Jewish) Emily Maitlis on Newsnight.

    Israel is seriously struggling with the PR, here. Totally flailing.

    I think the only explanation of Israel at the moment is that they have gone mad with fear. Understandably. I'm bloody frightened of militant Islam and I am a goy living in rural Devon. They are real Jews living in Israel and surrounded by Arabs and the Arabs have nukes. It must be like expecting every day to turn out to be 9/11 and you and your family at the top of the South Tower.

    None of which excuses the death of a single child in Gaza, but it explains it a bit.

    Which Arabs have nukes? I was not aware of this!

  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Blackpool Clifton Lab hold

    Lab 501 UKIP 362 Con 283 LD 33 Green 25 TUSC 10
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Why has this barely been mentioned amongst everything else today?

    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/ukraine-government-breaks-up-prime.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,875
    Smarmeron Classic, though I think the reason it has more support than capitalism is because the bailout of most banks which asked with the exception of Lehmans was not an example of free market principles
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549


    But its power was waning (albeit slowly) after what is widely regarded to be its peak -1850, the year of the great exhibition. Extent of colonial possessions is really a sign of weakness, not power. When Britain was out in front of the pack, we had 'spheres of influence'. When others caught up, we needed to put a garrison in and fly a flag. You can see it with America now. Tendency to invade, because the sands of time are running out. Different era, same story.

    I know I was being disingenuous in going on pure territorial size (WWI did great damage to the British empire) but 1850 is too early. That's before direct control of India, before the British had much to do with the Suez Canal, much of Africa, second opium war etc.

    Late 19th century would be the peak, depending on how you want to measure various areas of power (and how much you rate power vs dominance etc).
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    Not that I wish to get embroiled in the debate about farmers markets in North London but people do realise that it was written by that hideous exemplar of urban liberal feminist elitist political crassness Julie Bindel.

    Frankly it is exactly the sort of sneering down the nose condescension and snobbery one would associate with one of the ruling Guardianista sect of the cult of Islington.

    Yup, I thought so - though there wasn't anything liberal about it, more SWP.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited July 2014
    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 15s
    Clifton (Blackpool) result:
    LAB - 41.3% (-16.8)
    UKIP - 29.8% (+29.8)
    CON - 23.3% (-6.9)
    LDEM - 2.7% (+2.7)
    OTH - 2.9% (+2.9)

    UKIP here. :)
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    MikeK said:

    Has anyone noticed that the summer weather in London in July 2014 closely resembles the the summer in London of July 1914. Then as now, it was hot and humid. Then as now rumbles of war from distant places were making themselves heard.

    But we have learned a lot in 100 years, haven't we?

    To leave well alone ?

    If we had sat it out we'd have had no WW1, no WW2 and the EU would be a Franco-German empire (with the difference that no one would ever have suggested we join it).

    You're making rather a massive leap. The wars we had would not have played out in the same way, but it doesn't mean things would've been great, or even better, than they were.
    Can I blame the Liberals for the problems in the Middle East?

    The Balfour declaration happened under a Liberal PM?

    The things those Conservatives get up to when your back is turned.

    It was also the Liberals who invaded and occupied Egypt.
    I blame the PM, Lloyd George also lost us Ireland and well, don't even get me started on Sykes-Picot

    Plus he ruined the House of Lords.
    And gave women and poor men the vote.

    (Also pfsh. Blame the Conservatives, the only way Ireland was staying was if Gladstone's plans for home rule and a sort of extremely devolved Ireland were met).
    Have you noticed the country has gone downhill since we gave women the vote.

    We used to have an EMPIRE, AN EMPIRE, now look at us.
    Point of order, the British Empire was at it's largest extent in 1921.
    Except for the Irish Free State :)

    Actually the net result of WW1 British Empire-wise was loss of the Free State and "influence" over Afghanistan, but gain of Tanganyika, Namibia (c/o South Africa), part of Cameroon (now eastern Nigeria), part of Togo (now part of Ghana), Iraq, Palestine, Jordan, Egypt, Cyprus (formally), northeastern New Guinea (c/o Australia), and Western Samoa (c/o New Zealand).
    In territory yes. It was the economic damage the was the big hit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,875
    SeanT An Israeli spokesman in your paper of comment today said of course the Israelis could allow the rockets to hit Israeli schools, with pictures of dead Jewish children giving it good PR, but they were not prepared to do so and the fact Israeli security forces were so effective at repelling strikes was not something to apologise for
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    kle4 said:

    Neil said:

    Can people leave off controversial subjects like farmers' markets and stick to polite topics that are unlikely to blow up into huge rows like the situation in Gaza?

    Zing.
    Ishmael_X said:

    SeanT said:

    Israeli media spox Mark Regev was just disembowelled by (Jewish) Emily Maitlis on Newsnight.

    Israel is seriously struggling with the PR, here. Totally flailing.

    I think the only explanation of Israel at the moment is that they have gone mad with fear. Understandably. I'm bloody frightened of militant Islam and I am a goy living in rural Devon. They are real Jews living in Israel and surrounded by Arabs and the Arabs have nukes. It must be like expecting every day to turn out to be 9/11 and you and your family at the top of the South Tower.

    None of which excuses the death of a single child in Gaza, but it explains it a bit.

    Which Arabs have nukes? I was not aware of this!

    Persians. Sorry.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    MikeK said:

    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 15s
    Clifton (Blackpool) result:
    LAB - 41.3% (-16.8)
    UKIP - 29.8% (+29.8)
    CON - 23.3% (-6.9)
    LDEM - 2.7% (+2.7)
    OTH - 2.9% (+2.9)

    UKIP here. :)

    Wow. LDs got 2.7, but to be fair and for a change it was an improvement to get that much for once.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited July 2014
    kle4 said:

    Quincel said:

    SeanT said:

    Israeli media spox Mark Regev was just disembowelled by (Jewish) Emily Maitlis on Newsnight.

    Israel is seriously struggling with the PR, here. Totally flailing.

    Israel hasn't had good PR for at least a decade now. I reckon they've given up, because they figure they'll never get support while the Palestinians are the underdogs and because they don't find the bad PR particularly impedes them from doing what they want to anyway.
    Sounds plausible. The region's such a mess the PR going against them isn't enough to make backers actually change tack in any significant way, so why cater to it.

    Perhaps this is a silly question, but for those with a better take on the history of the Israel/Palestine conflict, has there been any improvement at all in the last 20 or so years, or is it as it seems - eternally awful? Or has it actually gotten worse?
    It's never been as close to peace as it was when Arafat could genuinely control all of the occupied territories and militias, though the Israeli disengagement from Gaza (destroyed the settlements, largely removed the blockade*) in 2005 was a positive step. It's all been downhill from there, and since the Israeli's elected Netanyahu again we've had a couple of years where neither side really care about peace and is happy to continue the bloody status quo.

    EDIT: Just realised this could imply there isn't one now. The blockade/siege has since been reinstated in full force.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Ishmael_X said:

    kle4 said:

    Neil said:

    Can people leave off controversial subjects like farmers' markets and stick to polite topics that are unlikely to blow up into huge rows like the situation in Gaza?

    Zing.
    Ishmael_X said:

    SeanT said:

    Israeli media spox Mark Regev was just disembowelled by (Jewish) Emily Maitlis on Newsnight.

    Israel is seriously struggling with the PR, here. Totally flailing.

    I think the only explanation of Israel at the moment is that they have gone mad with fear. Understandably. I'm bloody frightened of militant Islam and I am a goy living in rural Devon. They are real Jews living in Israel and surrounded by Arabs and the Arabs have nukes. It must be like expecting every day to turn out to be 9/11 and you and your family at the top of the South Tower.

    None of which excuses the death of a single child in Gaza, but it explains it a bit.

    Which Arabs have nukes? I was not aware of this!

    Persians. Sorry.

    Oh good - any more people having nukes is the last thing we need around those parts, you had me in a panic. The terror at those currently with nukes is at least part of the normal background terror.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Funnily enough our office is next door to Borough Market. You can certainly get trays of veg for £1 if that's what you want; or very tasty German hot dogs for £3.50; or burgers for £5; and so on. You can also taste most stuff for free. Or you can pay a fortune for some very smelly cheese. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it's more than sanctimonious greens who pack the place out. But if it comforts folk to think otherwise, so be it.

    Fancy hating someone because they shop in a farmers' market. Isn't life a bit too short for that?

    It probably is.. but no one has said it, so why mention that?

    The author of the article you linked to seemed to have a lot of hate in her. Maybe she was putting it on. I bet she shops in farmers' markets too.

    Oh so no one said it

    Yes, I know. As explained previously I was commenting on the article you linked to.

    Ok well glad you read it, now you know why some people use the "North London" tag as a put down to Ed Miliband rather than thinking it was something to do with religion
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    UKIP gain Doncaster Edenthorpe
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    I spent yesterday with an old mate of mine. He's Jewish and always a defender of Israel in the past. He was heartbroken at what is now unfolding and convinced that the Israeli government is targeting civilians deliberately in order to get them to turn against Hamas.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    MikeK said:

    Has anyone noticed that the summer weather in London in July 2014 closely resembles the the summer in London of July 1914. Then as now, it was hot and humid. Then as now rumbles of war from distant places were making themselves heard.

    But we have learned a lot in 100 years, haven't we?

    To leave well alone ?

    If we had sat it out we'd have had no WW1, no WW2 and the EU would be a Franco-German empire (with the difference that no one would ever have suggested we join it).

    You're making rather a massive leap. The wars we had would not have played out in the same way, but it doesn't mean things would've been great, or even better, than they were.
    Can I blame the Liberals for the problems in the Middle East?

    The Balfour declaration happened under a Liberal PM?

    The things those Conservatives get up to when your back is turned.

    It was also the Liberals who invaded and occupied Egypt.
    I blame the PM, Lloyd George also lost us Ireland and well, don't even get me started on Sykes-Picot

    Plus he ruined the House of Lords.
    And gave women and poor men the vote.

    (Also pfsh. Blame the Conservatives, the only way Ireland was staying was if Gladstone's plans for home rule and a sort of extremely devolved Ireland were met).
    Have you noticed the country has gone downhill since we gave women the vote.

    We used to have an EMPIRE, AN EMPIRE, now look at us.
    Point of order, the British Empire was at it's largest extent in 1921.
    Except for the Irish Free State :)

    Actually the net result of WW1 British Empire-wise was loss of the Free State...
    The Free State remained part of the Empire - the head of state was still the King and there was a Governor-General.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,115
    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    MikeK said:

    Has anyone noticed that the summer weather in London in July 2014 closely resembles the the summer in London of July 1914. Then as now, it was hot and humid. Then as now rumbles of war from distant places were making themselves heard.

    But we have learned a lot in 100 years, haven't we?

    To leave well alone ?

    If we had sat it out we'd have had no WW1, no WW2 and the EU would be a Franco-German empire (with the difference that no one would ever have suggested we join it).

    You're making rather a massive leap. The wars we had would not have played out in the same way, but it doesn't mean things would've been great, or even better, than they were.
    Can I blame the Liberals for the problems in the Middle East?

    The Balfour declaration happened under a Liberal PM?

    The things those Conservatives get up to when your back is turned.

    It was also the Liberals who invaded and occupied Egypt.
    I blame the PM, Lloyd George also lost us Ireland and well, don't even get me started on Sykes-Picot

    Plus he ruined the House of Lords.
    And gave women and poor men the vote.

    (Also pfsh. Blame the Conservatives, the only way Ireland was staying was if Gladstone's plans for home rule and a sort of extremely devolved Ireland were met).
    Have you noticed the country has gone downhill since we gave women the vote.

    We used to have an EMPIRE, AN EMPIRE, now look at us.
    Point of order, the British Empire was at it's largest extent in 1921.
    Except for the Irish Free State :)

    Actually the net result of WW1 British Empire-wise was loss of the Free State and "influence" over Afghanistan, but gain of Tanganyika, Namibia (c/o South Africa), part of Cameroon (now eastern Nigeria), part of Togo (now part of Ghana), Iraq, Palestine, Jordan, Egypt, Cyprus (formally), northeastern New Guinea (c/o Australia), and Western Samoa (c/o New Zealand).
    In territory yes. It was the economic damage the was the big hit.
    Oops! Forgot little Nauru - that passed to Australia as well.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 1m
    Edenthorpe, Kirk Sandall and Barnby Dun (Doncaster):
    UKIP GAIN from LAB.

    Sleezy broken Labour on the downward path.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Funnily enough our office is next door to Borough Market. You can certainly get trays of veg for £1 if that's what you want; or very tasty German hot dogs for £3.50; or burgers for £5; and so on. You can also taste most stuff for free. Or you can pay a fortune for some very smelly cheese. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it's more than sanctimonious greens who pack the place out. But if it comforts folk to think otherwise, so be it.

    Fancy hating someone because they shop in a farmers' market. Isn't life a bit too short for that?

    It probably is.. but no one has said it, so why mention that?

    The author of the article you linked to seemed to have a lot of hate in her. Maybe she was putting it on. I bet she shops in farmers' markets too.

    Oh so no one said it

    Yes, I know. As explained previously I was commenting on the article you linked to.

    Ok well glad you read it, now you know why some people use the "North London" tag as a put down to Ed Miliband rather than thinking it was something to do with religion

    No, I think it's code for Jewish, not for someone who spends too much on veg.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    hunchman said:
    Any more? There was a time you ever trusted the Russians?

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    MikeK said:

    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 1m
    Edenthorpe, Kirk Sandall and Barnby Dun (Doncaster):
    UKIP GAIN from LAB.

    Sleezy broken Labour on the downward path.

    Surely not in Doncaster??????

    People used to joke on here that it was the kind of place UKIP couldn't win... no immigration concerns apparently

    Old Boba mustve got a whiff of the result, thats why he';s done the off
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523


    Extent of colonial possessions is really a sign of weakness, not power. When Britain was out in front of the pack, we had 'spheres of influence'. When others caught up, we needed to put a garrison in and fly a flag. You can see it with America now. Tendency to invade, because the sands of time are running out. Different era, same story.

    Nicely put.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,115
    Neil said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    MikeK said:

    Has anyone noticed that the summer weather in London in July 2014 closely resembles the the summer in London of July 1914. Then as now, it was hot and humid. Then as now rumbles of war from distant places were making themselves heard.

    But we have learned a lot in 100 years, haven't we?

    To leave well alone ?

    If we had sat it out we'd have had no WW1, no WW2 and the EU would be a Franco-German empire (with the difference that no one would ever have suggested we join it).

    You're making rather a massive leap. The wars we had would not have played out in the same way, but it doesn't mean things would've been great, or even better, than they were.
    Can I blame the Liberals for the problems in the Middle East?

    The Balfour declaration happened under a Liberal PM?

    The things those Conservatives get up to when your back is turned.

    It was also the Liberals who invaded and occupied Egypt.
    I blame the PM, Lloyd George also lost us Ireland and well, don't even get me started on Sykes-Picot

    Plus he ruined the House of Lords.
    And gave women and poor men the vote.

    (Also pfsh. Blame the Conservatives, the only way Ireland was staying was if Gladstone's plans for home rule and a sort of extremely devolved Ireland were met).
    Have you noticed the country has gone downhill since we gave women the vote.

    We used to have an EMPIRE, AN EMPIRE, now look at us.
    Point of order, the British Empire was at it's largest extent in 1921.
    Except for the Irish Free State :)

    Actually the net result of WW1 British Empire-wise was loss of the Free State...
    The Free State remained part of the Empire - the head of state was still the King and there was a Governor-General.
    So that means India wasn't independent from 1947 to 1950?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    So far, a good night for UKIP. Whenever YouGov show UKIP slipping, UKIP advances. Funny that.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited July 2014

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Funnily enough our office is next door to Borough Market. You can certainly get trays of veg for £1 if that's what you want; or very tasty German hot dogs for £3.50; or burgers for £5; and so on. You can also taste most stuff for free. Or you can pay a fortune for some very smelly cheese. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it's more than sanctimonious greens who pack the place out. But if it comforts folk to think otherwise, so be it.

    Fancy hating someone because they shop in a farmers' market. Isn't life a bit too short for that?

    It probably is.. but no one has said it, so why mention that?

    The author of the article you linked to seemed to have a lot of hate in her. Maybe she was putting it on. I bet she shops in farmers' markets too.

    Oh so no one said it

    Yes, I know. As explained previously I was commenting on the article you linked to.

    Ok well glad you read it, now you know why some people use the "North London" tag as a put down to Ed Miliband rather than thinking it was something to do with religion

    No, I think it's code for Jewish, not for someone who spends too much on veg.

    Really?? I don't think anyone gets into Ed M for being Jewish

    I am not saying its a view I share, but the stereotype of North London used to describe him is out of touch, organic food loving type, not Jewish

    Doncaster eh?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited July 2014
    Blimey! It's a run:

    UKIP Wakefield ‏@UKIPWakefield 4m
    #UKIP GAIN : Edenthorpe, Kirk Sandall and Barnby Dun #Doncaster from #LABOUR
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    SeanT said:

    MikeK said:

    SeanT said:

    Israeli media spox Mark Regev was just disembowelled by (Jewish) Emily Maitlis on Newsnight.

    Israel is seriously struggling with the PR, here. Totally flailing.

    Yes, I agree that Israeli PR has always been a week spot in it's arsenal.
    i completely disagree. Israel's PR used to be brilliant. I am old enough (and so are you) to remember when Israel was perceived as the plucky little country, surrounded by evil enemies, a small, brave, smart nation fighting for its survival, and full of socialist (or capitalist) heroes. It used to have a fantastic PR profile.

    And this was key to its prosperity and continued existence.

    The loss of this positive image, and the slow transformation of Israel into a monster pedo, tormenting the kiddies in Gaza and Nazareth, is an absolute nightmare for Israel, and - I sincerely believe - threatens the survival of the country more than anything else. You cannot alienate EVERYONE and then expect a free pass, forever.
    Hello Sean

    Will you please leave this "PR" issue.

    But first, you answer yourself the first point. Many people didn't like Israel turning from a plucky little underdog into a real power. Some not all of course were motivated in this by anti-semitism, uppity Jews and so forth.

    Secondly, and to expand on the shorthand of my last post with the aim of clearing up your blind spot about this, Israel is in a fight for its life. Not against Alan Rusbridger but against Hamas and their allies who wish to do mortal damage to it. Yes really - it's amazing what a determined group of extremists can do despite the seeming discrepancy between the two states.

    It is for this reason that Israel is pursuing such military action with the hugely regrettable civilian casualties. It is difficult for us in the West who fight wars out of choice rather than necessity to understand but once you have grasped this fact, if you care to, the rest will become much easier to understand.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT An Israeli spokesman in your paper of comment today said of course the Israelis could allow the rockets to hit Israeli schools, with pictures of dead Jewish children giving it good PR, but they were not prepared to do so and the fact Israeli security forces were so effective at repelling strikes was not something to apologise for

    But the better you are at passive defence the less you can claim that firing rockets back is a necessary defensive tactic.

  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    MikeK said:

    So far, a good night for UKIP. Whenever YouGov show UKIP slipping, UKIP advances. Funny that.

    Shhhhhhh...........
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    MikeK said:

    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 1m
    Edenthorpe, Kirk Sandall and Barnby Dun (Doncaster):
    UKIP GAIN from LAB.

    Sleezy broken Labour on the downward path.

    UKIP Autumn Conference is being held in Doncaster apparently - I think the Tories should hold theirs in Sheffield for the Lib Dem 'decapitation' strategy, don't you? Well that decapitation strategy was a spectacular success wasn't it at the time gunning for Theresa May in Maidenhead, Howard in Folkestone, David Davis in Haltemprice & Howden. They did succeed in decapitating in this man though:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Collins_(politician)
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    MikeK said:

    Has anyone noticed that the summer weather in London in July 2014 closely resembles the the summer in London of July 1914. Then as now, it was hot and humid. Then as now rumbles of war from distant places were making themselves heard.

    But we have learned a lot in 100 years, haven't we?

    To leave well alone ?

    If we had sat it out we'd have had no WW1, no WW2 and the EU would be a Franco-German empire (with the difference that no one would ever have suggested we join it).

    You're making rather a massive leap. The wars we had would not have played out in the same way, but it doesn't mean things would've been great, or even better, than they were.
    Can I blame the Liberals for the problems in the Middle East?

    The Balfour declaration happened under a Liberal PM?

    The things those Conservatives get up to when your back is turned.

    It was also the Liberals who invaded and occupied Egypt.
    I blame the PM, Lloyd George also lost us Ireland and well, don't even get me started on Sykes-Picot

    Plus he ruined the House of Lords.
    And gave women and poor men the vote.

    (Also pfsh. Blame the Conservatives, the only way Ireland was staying was if Gladstone's plans for home rule and a sort of extremely devolved Ireland were met).
    Have you noticed the country has gone downhill since we gave women the vote.

    We used to have an EMPIRE, AN EMPIRE, now look at us.
    Point of order, the British Empire was at it's largest extent in 1921.
    Except for the Irish Free State :)

    Actually the net result of WW1 British Empire-wise was loss of the Free State...
    The Free State remained part of the Empire - the head of state was still the King and there was a Governor-General.
    So that means India wasn't independent from 1947 to 1950?
    The Free State was independent, it was also part of the Empire.

  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Donny UKIP 1203 Lab 1109 Con 479 Green 160
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Funnily enough our office is next door to Borough Market. You can certainly get trays of veg for £1 if that's what you want; or very tasty German hot dogs for £3.50; or burgers for £5; and so on. You can also taste most stuff for free. Or you can pay a fortune for some very smelly cheese. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it's more than sanctimonious greens who pack the place out. But if it comforts folk to think otherwise, so be it.

    Fancy hating someone because they shop in a farmers' market. Isn't life a bit too short for that?

    It probably is.. but no one has said it, so why mention that?

    The author of the article you linked to seemed to have a lot of hate in her. Maybe she was putting it on. I bet she shops in farmers' markets too.

    Oh so no one said it

    Yes, I know. As explained previously I was commenting on the article you linked to.

    Ok well glad you read it, now you know why some people use the "North London" tag as a put down to Ed Miliband rather than thinking it was something to do with religion

    No, I think it's code for Jewish, not for someone who spends too much on veg.

    Really?? I don't think anyone gets into Ed M for being Jewish

    I am not saying its a view I share, but the stereotype of North London used to describe him is out of touch, organic food loving type, not Jewish

    Doncaster eh?

    Used to describe him and nobody else. Funny that.

    UKIP winning council seats in Doncaster and Wakey. Labour will win the GE votes in both places.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    It's UKIPs night:
    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 30s
    Edenthorpe, Kirk Sandall & Barnby Dun (Doncaster) result:
    UKIP - 40.8% (+4.1)
    LAB - 37.6% (+1.9)
    CON - 16.2% (-2.9)
    GRN - 5.4% (+5.4)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,115
    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    MikeK said:

    Has anyone noticed that the summer weather in London in July 2014 closely resembles the the summer in London of July 1914. Then as now, it was hot and humid. Then as now rumbles of war from distant places were making themselves heard.

    But we have learned a lot in 100 years, haven't we?

    To leave well alone ?

    If we had sat it out we'd have had no WW1, no WW2 and the EU would be a Franco-German empire (with the difference that no one would ever have suggested we join it).

    You're making rather a massive leap. The wars we had would not have played out in the same way, but it doesn't mean things would've been great, or even better, than they were.
    Can I blame the Liberals for the problems in the Middle East?

    The Balfour declaration happened under a Liberal PM?

    The things those Conservatives get up to when your back is turned.

    It was also the Liberals who invaded and occupied Egypt.
    I blame the PM, Lloyd George also lost us Ireland and well, don't even get me started on Sykes-Picot

    Plus he ruined the House of Lords.
    And gave women and poor men the vote.

    (Also pfsh. Blame the Conservatives, the only way Ireland was staying was if Gladstone's plans for home rule and a sort of extremely devolved Ireland were met).
    Have you noticed the country has gone downhill since we gave women the vote.

    We used to have an EMPIRE, AN EMPIRE, now look at us.
    Point of order, the British Empire was at it's largest extent in 1921.
    Except for the Irish Free State :)

    Actually the net result of WW1 British Empire-wise was loss of the Free State...
    The Free State remained part of the Empire - the head of state was still the King and there was a Governor-General.
    So that means India wasn't independent from 1947 to 1950?
    The Free State was independent, it was also part of the Empire.

    A Dominion in other words?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    "Because north Londoners don’t just eat in Greek restaurants and make odious pop records. They also care deeply about (my capitals) THE LESS FORTUNATE. You know, Tibetans, African people, little seals that get their heads bashed in. Some are even left wing; in fact wealthy north London is packed with socialists. Grand old socialists like Michael Foot, but also less grand, younger socialists who earn £120,000 a year as arts administrators and, strangely, find nothing as hateful and unpleasant as exposure to the working class. The same class, if memory serves, that socialism is suppose to propel to the commanding heights of the economy. "

    http://www.timeout.com/london/things-to-do/north-london-v-south-london-the-debate
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited July 2014
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Funnily enough our office is next door to Borough Market. You can certainly get trays of veg for £1 if that's what you want; or very tasty German hot dogs for £3.50; or burgers for £5; and so on. You can also taste most stuff for free. Or you can pay a fortune for some very smelly cheese. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it's more than sanctimonious greens who pack the place out. But if it comforts folk to think otherwise, so be it.

    Fancy hating someone because they shop in a farmers' market. Isn't life a bit too short for that?

    It probably is.. but no one has said it, so why mention that?

    The author of the article you linked to seemed to have a lot of hate in her. Maybe she was putting it on. I bet she shops in farmers' markets too.

    Oh so no one said it

    Yes, I know. As explained previously I was commenting on the article you linked to.

    Ok well glad you read it, now you know why some people use the "North London" tag as a put down to Ed Miliband rather than thinking it was something to do with religion

    No, I think it's code for Jewish, not for someone who spends too much on veg.

    Really?? I don't think anyone gets into Ed M for being Jewish
    I used to think that, until I heard my own father use anti-semitic slurs against Ed. I would never have expected that from the man, quite distressing to discover to be honest, so while I have no idea if people laying into Ed M for being Jewish is a common or even significant minority problem, I guess I cannot rule out that it happens somewhere, to some extent.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Funnily enough our office is next door to Borough Market. You can certainly get trays of veg for £1 if that's what you want; or very tasty German hot dogs for £3.50; or burgers for £5; and so on. You can also taste most stuff for free. Or you can pay a fortune for some very smelly cheese. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it's more than sanctimonious greens who pack the place out. But if it comforts folk to think otherwise, so be it.

    Fancy hating someone because they shop in a farmers' market. Isn't life a bit too short for that?

    It probably is.. but no one has said it, so why mention that?

    The author of the article you linked to seemed to have a lot of hate in her. Maybe she was putting it on. I bet she shops in farmers' markets too.

    Oh so no one said it

    Yes, I know. As explained previously I was commenting on the article you linked to.

    Ok well glad you read it, now you know why some people use the "North London" tag as a put down to Ed Miliband rather than thinking it was something to do with religion

    No, I think it's code for Jewish, not for someone who spends too much on veg.

    Really?? I don't think anyone gets into Ed M for being Jewish

    I am not saying its a view I share, but the stereotype of North London used to describe him is out of touch, organic food loving type, not Jewish

    Doncaster eh?

    Used to describe him and nobody else. Funny that.

    UKIP winning council seats in Doncaster and Wakey. Labour will win the GE votes in both places.

    Hmm interesting. When T Blair et al were criticised for being an "Islington" set was that similarly antisemitic?
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    isam said:

    As I said before, I like North London, I lived there for a few years, and have got involved in this kind of stuff myself. But I was aware how poncey it was, that's all.

    One of my most irritating clients was a judge's daughter, originally from some twee London suburb. Parents had already set her up with a nice house in London, but she wanted to have a fuller "student experience" when she trundled off to do her second postgrad degree. So her own house got rented out while she moved to East London, because it was trendier and she liked that it was more "edgy". She would regale one and all with tales of her scrapes survived, and all the dodgy and dramatic East London goings-on that her new location had brought to her. (Mildly perplexing by dint of being perplexingly mild and perilously middle-class. Perhaps she'd just had a sheltered existence before, judge's daughter and that.) A devoted fan of a certain licence-fee funded soap opera, she felt she was living the real EastEnders experience, and was exhilarated by it. ("It's just like being in an episode!")

    Soon emerged that by "East London", she meant "Islington".
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Before I get both barrels, these aren't my views, just the reasons why "North London" is used as an insult to Ed Miliband. It's not to do with religion
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 1m
    Staplehurst (Maidstone):
    LDEM GAIN from CON.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Maidstone Staplehurst is a Lib Dem gain from Con
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 2m
    Birchills Leamore (Walsall):
    LAB HOLD.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Neil said:

    hunchman said:
    Any more? There was a time you ever trusted the Russians?

    I'm probably more pro-Russian that about 99% of people in this country having spent a wonderful 2 weeks there. Really would like to go and visit more of the country eg around Volgograd. No life is complete without paying homage to the modern day Stalingrad after all its history.

    The great sadness is that Russia sees its own power in terms of how much land it controls, and Putin has been very explicit about this saying the USSR breakup was the greatest tragedy of the 20th century. If only they could be imbued with a bit of Adam Smith and see their people as their greatest resource. You can have all the land you want, but if you don't make best use of your people and their talents then its worth bug*er all.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited July 2014

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Funnily enough our office is next door to Borough Market. You can certainly get trays of veg for £1 if that's what you want; or very tasty German hot dogs for £3.50; or burgers for £5; and so on. You can also taste most stuff for free. Or you can pay a fortune for some very smelly cheese. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it's more than sanctimonious greens who pack the place out. But if it comforts folk to think otherwise, so be it.

    Fancy hating someone because they shop in a farmers' market. Isn't life a bit too short for that?

    It probably is.. but no one has said it, so why mention that?

    The author of the article you linked to seemed to have a lot of hate in her. Maybe she was putting it on. I bet she shops in farmers' markets too.

    Oh so no one said it

    Yes, I know. As explained previously I was commenting on the article you linked to.

    Ok well glad you read it, now you know why some people use the "North London" tag as a put down to Ed Miliband rather than thinking it was something to do with religion

    No, I think it's code for Jewish, not for someone who spends too much on veg.

    Really?? I don't think anyone gets into Ed M for being Jewish

    I am not saying its a view I share, but the stereotype of North London used to describe him is out of touch, organic food loving type, not Jewish

    Doncaster eh?

    Used to describe him and nobody else. Funny that.

    UKIP winning council seats in Doncaster and Wakey. Labour will win the GE votes in both places.

    I have heard it said about many people... if someone says to me "North London type", and my mates would describe people like that, I don't think "Jewish" I think Nathan Barley or Farmers Market to be honest! It means pretentious really, or at least it does where I come from

    I think maybe its an age thing
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    As I said before, I like North London, I lived there for a few years, and have got involved in this kind of stuff myself. But I was aware how poncey it was, that's all.

    One of my most irritating clients was a judge's daughter, originally from some twee London suburb. Parents had already set her up with a nice house in London, but she wanted to have a fuller "student experience" when she trundled off to do her second postgrad degree. So her own house got rented out while she moved to East London, because it was trendier and she liked that it was more "edgy". She would regale one and all with tales of her scrapes survived, and all the dodgy and dramatic East London goings-on that her new location had brought to her. (Mildly perplexing by dint of being perplexingly mild and perilously middle-class. Perhaps she'd just had a sheltered existence before, judge's daughter and that.) A devoted fan of a certain licence-fee funded soap opera, she felt she was living the real EastEnders experience, and was exhilarated by it. ("It's just like being in an episode!")

    Soon emerged that by "East London", she meant "Islington".
    As if East London is like EastEnders!!
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 1m
    Birchills Leamore (Walsall) result:
    LAB - 47.8% (+6.5)
    UKIP - 19.8% (-9.7)
    CON - 31.6% (+7.1)
    EDEM - 0.9% (+0.9)
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    SeanT said:

    I spent yesterday with an old mate of mine. He's Jewish and always a defender of Israel in the past. He was heartbroken at what is now unfolding and convinced that the Israeli government is targeting civilians deliberately in order to get them to turn against Hamas.

    I am convinced Israel is now targetting Gazan civilians deliberately: their military technology is just too good to explain away all these "mistakes" - the boys on the beach, the hospital, the school, etc

    But I don't grasp the strategy as you put it. My suspicion is that Netanyahu would RATHER have a reinforced Hamas in Gaza, estranged from the West Bank, as it means there will be no united Palestinian "nation" with which he might be obliged to do business, and it thus postpones any two state solution - which is now almost impossibl,e and after another few years of illegal Jewish settlements, will be entirely unfeasible.

    I am sure this is Likud's endgame. And it is fairly evil.

    Isreal doesn't want peace. It wants the Palestinians living in permanent bantustans which will be so unpleasant the Palestinians will slowly emigrate, allowing Greater Israel to become a Jewish state with a permanent Zionist majority.

    I don't know what I think. That's what my mate thought. I know a few Israelis and security is what they always talk about. Hamas is the big threat, as they see it (rightly). If the Palestinians rise up against Hamas then Hamas becomes less of a threat. But because of the grip Hamas has you have to create extraordinary conditions before anything will change. That's what's going on, they say. There's a twisted logic to it. But there is in your theory too. Whichever way you look at it what is happening is revolting. I was genuinely shocked at the vehemence of what I heard last night.

  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Walsall result Lab 1075 Con 710 UKIP 445 Eng Dem 20
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    #BritainElects ‏@britainelects 1m
    Southcote (Reading):
    LAB HOLD.

    Pity that; I would like to have seen Ann Zebedee elected, if only forher name. ;)
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Funnily enough our office is next door to Borough Market. You can certainly get trays of veg for £1 if that's what you want; or very tasty German hot dogs for £3.50; or burgers for £5; and so on. You can also taste most stuff for free. Or you can pay a fortune for some very smelly cheese. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it's more than sanctimonious greens who pack the place out. But if it comforts folk to think otherwise, so be it.

    Fancy hating someone because they shop in a farmers' market. Isn't life a bit too short for that?

    It probably is.. but no one has said it, so why mention that?

    The author of the article you linked to seemed to have a lot of hate in her. Maybe she was putting it on. I bet she shops in farmers' markets too.

    Oh so no one said it

    Yes, I know. As explained previously I was commenting on the article you linked to.

    Ok well glad you read it, now you know why some people use the "North London" tag as a put down to Ed Miliband rather than thinking it was something to do with religion

    No, I think it's code for Jewish, not for someone who spends too much on veg.

    Really?? I don't think anyone gets into Ed M for being Jewish

    I am not saying its a view I share, but the stereotype of North London used to describe him is out of touch, organic food loving type, not Jewish

    Doncaster eh?

    Used to describe him and nobody else. Funny that.

    UKIP winning council seats in Doncaster and Wakey. Labour will win the GE votes in both places.

    Hmm interesting. When T Blair et al were criticised for being an "Islington" set was that similarly antisemitic?

    No. The whole point is the use of the term North London intellectual. Using Islington and dropping intellectual would, indeed, be the standard leftie baiting.

  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Maidstone
    LD 609 Con 603 UKIP 311 Lab 117 Green 41
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited July 2014
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Funnily enough our office is next door to Borough Market. You can certainly get trays of veg for £1 if that's what you want; or very tasty German hot dogs for £3.50; or burgers for £5; and so on. You can also taste most stuff for free. Or you can pay a fortune for some very smelly cheese. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it's more than sanctimonious greens who pack the place out. But if it comforts folk to think otherwise, so be it.

    Fancy hating someone because they shop in a farmers' market. Isn't life a bit too short for that?

    It probably is.. but no one has said it, so why mention that?

    The author of the article you linked to seemed to have a lot of hate in her. Maybe she was putting it on. I bet she shops in farmers' markets too.

    Oh so no one said it

    Yes, I know. As explained previously I was commenting on the article you linked to.

    Ok well glad you read it, now you know why some people use the "North London" tag as a put down to Ed Miliband rather than thinking it was something to do with religion

    No, I think it's code for Jewish, not for someone who spends too much on veg.

    Really?? I don't think anyone gets into Ed M for being Jewish

    I am not saying its a view I share, but the stereotype of North London used to describe him is out of touch, organic food loving type, not Jewish

    Doncaster eh?

    Used to describe him and nobody else. Funny that.

    UKIP winning council seats in Doncaster and Wakey. Labour will win the GE votes in both places.

    Hmm interesting. When T Blair et al were criticised for being an "Islington" set was that similarly antisemitic?
    Its the same thing. Ed doesn't live in Islington, so its changed to "North London"

    London Stereotypes, from a poll of people living in London

    http://now-here-this.timeout.com/2014/01/29/north-is-intellectual-south-is-rough-west-is-posh-east-is-poor-londons-view-on-postcodes-revealed/
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Hamas is the big threat, as they see it (rightly). If the Palestinians rise up against Hamas then Hamas becomes less of a threat.

    I doubt anyone in the Israeli government thinks that. Remove Hamas and they are more than likely to be replaced by something even worse.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651



    Used to describe him and nobody else. Funny that.

    Sorry but I can't agree with all of that, Southam.

    "North London" or "Islington", when used in a derogatory manner, are broadly synonymous with "poncey". When used as a piece of cod-dailymailese to denigrate politicians or public figures (and it's not just Ed who gets the treatment on that, really it's not), the intended sting is surely an additional charge of hypocrisy. ("If you're so rich, how can you represent the poor? And if your tastes are so luxurious, how can you claim to genuinely care for them?")

    I'd agree there are people who don't like the Milibands on grounds which are basically anti-semitic. I think on the whole that it's a private thing, not much of it has crossed over into the media or public life. I'd argue it's been far less of an issue for Miliband than it was for Michael Howard, though the "bacon sandwich incident" sneering had some unpleasant undertones. That's not what "North London" is a code-word for, though.
This discussion has been closed.