PM: We agreed Dutch request for air accident investigators at Farnborough to retrieve data from MH17 black boxes for international analysis
But will the Russians trust us?
Interesting that the country from which MH17 departed and with the highest death count should entrust the black boxes with the UK - Is the choice of Farnborough entirely professional or part political I wonder?
For all our faults this country is generally seen as an honest arbiter methinks.
PM: We agreed Dutch request for air accident investigators at Farnborough to retrieve data from MH17 black boxes for international analysis
But will the Russians trust us?
Interesting that the country from which MH17 departed and with the highest death count should entrust the black boxes with the UK - Is the choice of Farnborough entirely professional or part political I wonder?
For all our faults this country is generally seen as an honest arbiter methinks.
Absolutely - I wasn’t questioning the integrity or professionalism of the air accident investigators based at Farnborough or the faith entrusted to the UK by Holland, merely speculating at the possible political motive for such a decision.
The thing about Thurrock, has any party ever come from fifth to win?
They were 5th behind the BNP, and nearly 13k behind Con and Lab.
The average UKIPper disagrees very little with the BNP. For example, looking at the UKIPper massive in the DT comments, how many UKIPpers would seriously disagree that Britain is "a multicultural shithole" which is under the process of "ethnic cleansing" and faces many more Lee Rigby-style executions perpetrated by "tribal African" people?
The thing is, that is the considered view of the new leader of the BNP. Anyone espousing the milder view - that EU immigration is a bit out of hand, and we need to do something about our borders - is a Tory, not a UKIPper.
So in that seat you could add UKIP to BNP and reckon from there.
You have fundamentally misunderstood the nature of UKIP's divergence from The Conservatives. It is not extremity of viewpoint that seperates them, it is the determination that action must follow sentiment. It may be that many Tories feel 'EU immigration is a bit out of hand, and we need to do something about our borders' -but the upper echelons of their party will simply NEVER allow that. Those who do attempt to advance such initiatives within the Tory party are darkly hinted at as being 'ideological' -a smear that means nutter.
To believe that 'EU immigration is a bit out of hand, and we need to do something about our borders' but to remain within the Conservative indicates either terminal delusion or intellectual cowardice. Ukipper's haven't moved away from the Tory Party, the Tory Party has been taken from them.
Considering you're an Assad and Putin apologist, I'm glad you think the Tory party isn't for you.
At least Assad and Putin aren't Islamists.
Whilst the Syrian Government is secular, President Assad is an Alawite.
The Alawites, also known as Alawis (ʿAlawīyyah Arabic: علوية), are a prominent mystical religious group, centred in Syria, who follow a branch of the Twelver school of Shia Islam.
If you take that line then every Muslim is one thing or the other. So are Christians.
I think what Sunil was saying is he is a secular Muslim, i.e. for whom the spread of the religion or rule by sharia etc.. does not drive his politics.
With the retirement of Prescott and others, who are the working class leaders at the top of the Labour party that regularly appear on tv? Attacking Cameron and co as middle class public school etc could just draw attention to the lack of few WWC that Labour have. e.g. SoS Education vs Shadow SoS Eduation.
Another factor is age. Cameron may have made a mistake in shipping out some grey heads, but his cabinet still look older than Miliband's. We all know that older voters have the highest voting records. It should be a good aim to look like your voters.
Might Darling and Johnson return in an autumn reshuffle?
It would probably help Labour at the GE. Another Scot at the top may also help hold back the SNP surge.
LOL, Darling is hated almost as much as Brown. What planet do you boys live on. labour are in the crap in Scotland, the only way the SNP are going is UP. Only a YES vote will mean a drop in SNP votes and even then not immediately.
Malcolm. The facts are that under Brown the Labour vote increased by 2.5% at GE2010. So Brown was clearly held in good regard by voters in Scotland.
Not really. Only on PB is one survey deemed a trend, and even then only when it's "good" for the Tories
The latest Ashcroft is hardly good for the Tories. It also implies that in quite a few Essex / Kent / East Anglia / Lincs. seats, UKIP will take away enough votes to hand over the seat to Labour.
I doubt the surge in UKIP in places like Rotherham will be enough to go over Labour's big majorities.
With the retirement of Prescott and others, who are the working class leaders at the top of the Labour party that regularly appear on tv? Attacking Cameron and co as middle class public school etc could just draw attention to the lack of few WWC that Labour have. e.g. SoS Education vs Shadow SoS Eduation.
Another factor is age. Cameron may have made a mistake in shipping out some grey heads, but his cabinet still look older than Miliband's. We all know that older voters have the highest voting records. It should be a good aim to look like your voters.
Might Darling and Johnson return in an autumn reshuffle?
It would probably help Labour at the GE. Another Scot at the top may also help hold back the SNP surge.
LOL, Darling is hated almost as much as Brown. What planet do you boys live on. labour are in the crap in Scotland, the only way the SNP are going is UP. Only a YES vote will mean a drop in SNP votes and even then not immediately.
Malcolm. The facts are that under Brown the Labour vote increased by 2.5% at GE2010. So Brown was clearly held in good regard by voters in Scotland.
You misunderstand MalcolmG. He wasnt posting about Brown's (or Labour's) standing in Scotland. He was telling us about how they rated in his head.
Not really. Only on PB is one survey deemed a trend, and even then only when it's "good" for the Tories
The latest Ashcroft is hardly good for the Tories. It also implies that in quite a few Essex / Kent / East Anglia / Lincs. seats, UKIP will take away enough votes to hand over the seat to Labour.
I doubt the surge in UKIP in places like Rotherham will be enough to go over Labour's big majorities.
Sorry, you are right - by "good" I should have written "very slightly less shit"
UPDATE: Actually I’ve just spotted that the fieldwork in the Tory held seats was done earlier than the fieldwork in the Labour held seats. So comparing the swing in Con-Lab seats to the swing in national polls at the time the polls were done shows no difference at all (both show swing of 5.5%). Comparing the swing in Lab-Con seats to the swing in national polls at the time those polls were done shows Lab doing about 1.5 points better in seats they already hold.
I'm not sure what to make of this marginals polling except that, as an LD, I'm reminded of the old Glee Club song "Losing Deposits"...
On these numbers, UKIP would make the most significant breakthrough in votes since the Liberals in February 1974 went from 7.5% to 19.3%. Of course, that didn't do the Liberal Party much good in terms of seats but (along with rises in the SNP/PC vote) dragged the Con/Lab vote share down from 90% to 75% and now (on some polls) it's between 60-65%.
There are some other parallels with Feb 74 out there - the Conservatives won the most votes while Labour won the most seats.
There seems to be a trend for a highly-concentrated yet much-reduced LD vote and a greater but more geographic diverse UKIP vote but part from East Ham as a Labour hold, I wouldn't want to predict let alone have money on anything relating to next year's GE just yet.
I'm more interested in Saturday's King George - I fancy FLINTSHIRE and TRADING LEATHER as e/w bets against the favourites (both available at 14s).
@TSE Not really. Only on PB is one survey deemed a trend, and even then only when it's "good" for the Tories
These comments border on trolling and are best focused on a specific individual when they do what you allege, rather than smearing all. How about improving the dialogue here with a point that makes readers stop and think? Or some facts?
One thing about the Indy ref - look at the amount of Jam & Apple Pie that has been stuffed Scotland's way since it's been announced.
If I was in Scotland I'd probably vote No/SNP...
Pulpstar can you tell me what jam & apple pie you are talking about. I have only seen cuts and vague promises to stiff us with income tax whilst slashing the budget and leaving us in the mire.
More powers over income tax, Glasgow shipping being more looked after than Pompey are a couple that spring to mind.
Pulpstar, re above
Giving the income tax responsibility and cutting the budget is not transferring powers. It is a burden and leaves you at the mercy of the tax take , given you have no way to change rates. So with budget slashed if income tax drops you are scuppered and do not have all the other taxes to balance the changing income tax revenue. So a pig in a poke. Shipbuilding , POrtsmouth reduced from circa 12,000 to circa 11,000. Govan went from 3500 to 2500, not exactly giving any great benefits from my viewpoint and that is only if they order sufficient new ships , and then closure. So far we have only been handed a shitty stick. The shit sandwiches are being prepared.
Kamal Ahmed @bbckamal 3m Royal Mail's share price (449p) is now below where it ended on the first day of trading as a listed company (455p). Down 3.5% today
One thing about the Indy ref - look at the amount of Jam & Apple Pie that has been stuffed Scotland's way since it's been announced.
If I was in Scotland I'd probably vote No/SNP...
Pulpstar can you tell me what jam & apple pie you are talking about. I have only seen cuts and vague promises to stiff us with income tax whilst slashing the budget and leaving us in the mire.
More powers over income tax, Glasgow shipping being more looked after than Pompey are a couple that spring to mind.
Pulpstar, re above
Giving the income tax responsibility and cutting the budget is not transferring powers. It is a burden and leaves you at the mercy of the tax take , given you have no way to change rates. So with budget slashed if income tax drops you are scuppered and do not have all the other taxes to balance the changing income tax revenue. So a pig in a poke. Shipbuilding , POrtsmouth reduced from circa 12,000 to circa 11,000. Govan went from 3500 to 2500, not exactly giving any great benefits from my viewpoint and that is only if they order sufficient new ships , and then closure. So far we have only been handed a shitty stick. The shit sandwiches are being prepared.
Whine whine whine - make your own luck Malc - cut income tax and watch the take soar...
Not really. Only on PB is one survey deemed a trend, and even then only when it's "good" for the Tories
The latest Ashcroft is hardly good for the Tories. It also implies that in quite a few Essex / Kent / East Anglia / Lincs. seats, UKIP will take away enough votes to hand over the seat to Labour.
I doubt the surge in UKIP in places like Rotherham will be enough to go over Labour's big majorities.
It's not brain surgery: if Labour do not lose seats (perhaps a big if) then every Tory seat lost to whoever is very good news for Labour. The best news would be a direct exchange, but UKIP taking one or two Tory marginal is not going to break any Labour hearts. In the end in these seats it may come down to who is more toxic - EdM or the Conservative party.
Kamal Ahmed @bbckamal 3m Royal Mail's share price (449p) is now below where it ended on the first day of trading as a listed company (455p). Down 3.5% today
Hope everyone who went in cut and ran with the profits.
Based on Lord Ashcroft's latest marginal poll, Labour is doing worse in the marginals than it is nationally.
It would be equivalent to a 2% national lead for Labour. On average, Labour are 3-4% ahead, so there's little difference.
But it ends the meme that Labour are doing better in the marginals.
I don't think there's a lot in it, and said the same after the last Ashcroft poll that showed Labour doing slightly better in Lab-Con marginals. The variation is all pretty MOE. However, it's worth noting that neither the "Labour marginals advantage" nor the "incumbency bonus" appear to exist. There was even a "double incumbency bonus" theory that new incumbents replacing popular former incumbents would get a super-boost. Seems not.
As in previous elections, other things being equal, the national swing is a fair guide to what happens - it's not that there aren't local effects, but they even out. The potential for UKIP making breakthroughs is of course a special case.
The thing about Thurrock, has any party ever come from fifth to win?
They were 5th behind the BNP, and nearly 13k behind Con and Lab.
The average UKIPper disagrees very little with the BNP. For example, looking at the UKIPper massive in the DT comments, how many UKIPpers would seriously disagree that Britain is "a multicultural shithole" which is under the process of "ethnic cleansing" and faces many more Lee Rigby-style executions perpetrated by "tribal African" people?
The thing is, that is the considered view of the new leader of the BNP. Anyone espousing the milder view - that EU immigration is a bit out of hand, and we need to do something about our borders - is a Tory, not a UKIPper.
So in that seat you could add UKIP to BNP and reckon from there.
You have fundamentally misunderstood the nature of UKIP's divergence from The Conservatives. It is not extremity of viewpoint that seperates them, it is the determination that action must follow sentiment. It may be that many Tories feel 'EU immigration is a bit out of hand, and we need to do something about our borders' -but the upper echelons of their party will simply NEVER allow that. Those who do attempt to advance such initiatives within the Tory party are darkly hinted at as being 'ideological' -a smear that means nutter.
To believe that 'EU immigration is a bit out of hand, and we need to do something about our borders' but to remain within the Conservative indicates either terminal delusion or intellectual cowardice. Ukipper's haven't moved away from the Tory Party, the Tory Party has been taken from them.
Considering you're an Assad and Putin apologist, I'm glad you think the Tory party isn't for you.
At least Assad and Putin aren't Islamists.
Whilst the Syrian Government is secular, President Assad is an Alawite.
The Alawites, also known as Alawis (ʿAlawīyyah Arabic: علوية), are a prominent mystical religious group, centred in Syria, who follow a branch of the Twelver school of Shia Islam.
If you take that line then every Muslim is one thing or the other. So are Christians.
I think what Sunil was saying is he is a secular Muslim, i.e. for whom the spread of the religion or rule by sharia etc.. does not drive his politics.
Technically you can also change from Pink to Brown at Paddington, though the H & C line platforms are structurally part of the main line station (Plats. 15 & 16).
Technically you can also change from Pink to Brown at Paddington, though the H & C line platforms are structurally part of the main line station (Plats. 15 & 16).
Going to the wrong end of Paddington is a nightmare. You can spend longer crossing the thing than half of London!
Technically you can also change from Pink to Brown at Paddington, though the H & C line platforms are structurally part of the main line station (Plats. 15 & 16).
Technically you can also change from Pink to Brown at Paddington, though the H & C line platforms are structurally part of the main line station (Plats. 15 & 16).
Going to the wrong end of Paddington is a nightmare. You can spend longer crossing the thing than half of London!
Perhaps that’s why ‘Baker Street’ was chosen – now if Sunil attempts to deconstruct the traditional ‘kipper-tie’ joke there’ll be hell to pay… ; )
The thing about Thurrock, has any party ever come from fifth to win?
They were 5th behind the BNP, and nearly 13k behind Con and Lab.
The average UKIPper disagrees very little with the BNP. For example, looking at the UKIPper massive in the DT comments, how many UKIPpers would seriously disagree that Britain is "a multicultural shithole" which is under the process of "ethnic cleansing" and faces many more Lee Rigby-style executions perpetrated by "tribal African" people?
The thing is, that is the considered view of the new leader of the BNP. Anyone espousing the milder view - that EU immigration is a bit out of hand, and we need to do something about our borders - is a Tory, not a UKIPper.
So in that seat you could add UKIP to BNP and reckon from there.
You have fundamentally misunderstood the nature of UKIP's divergence from The Conservatives. It is not extremity of viewpoint that seperates them, it is the determination that action must follow sentiment. It may be that many Tories feel 'EU immigration is a bit out of hand, and we need to do something about our borders' -but the upper echelons of their party will simply NEVER allow that. Those who do attempt to advance such initiatives within the Tory party are darkly hinted at as being 'ideological' -a smear that means nutter.
To believe that 'EU immigration is a bit out of hand, and we need to do something about our borders' but to remain within the Conservative indicates either terminal delusion or intellectual cowardice. Ukipper's haven't moved away from the Tory Party, the Tory Party has been taken from them.
Considering you're an Assad and Putin apologist, I'm glad you think the Tory party isn't for you.
At least Assad and Putin aren't Islamists.
Whilst the Syrian Government is secular, President Assad is an Alawite.
The Alawites, also known as Alawis (ʿAlawīyyah Arabic: علوية), are a prominent mystical religious group, centred in Syria, who follow a branch of the Twelver school of Shia Islam.
If you take that line then every Muslim is one thing or the other. So are Christians.
I think what Sunil was saying is he is a secular Muslim, i.e. for whom the spread of the religion or rule by sharia etc.. does not drive his politics.
Sunil is not a Muslim name!!
I was referring to your post re:Assad who is a secular Muslim. [ Alewite ]
You can feel the tension as posters and lurkers alike inch towards the edge of their seats in anticipation of the yellow boxes that will explain why all the news is good.
I refer you to your post and that of Hugh immediately below it.
I refer you to TSE's contention earlier and his post about the Ashcroft marginals poll I linked to earlier.
I refer you to these and I say QED.
I refer you to the greatest predicative election organization in the history of mankind - namely my ARSE.
And I say ....
Never Knowingly Undersold.
As endorsed unreservedly by Madam Speaker Beckett.
Ouch, turning on your campaign manager!
I'm bitter and twisted at the moment. No one is immune. And Dave, my patience with you is exhausted. And all I wanted was a peerage, not even an hereditary one for goodness sake.
I refer you to your post and that of Hugh immediately below it.
I refer you to TSE's contention earlier and his post about the Ashcroft marginals poll I linked to earlier.
I refer you to these and I say QED.
I refer you to the greatest predicative election organization in the history of mankind - namely my ARSE.
And I say ....
Never Knowingly Undersold.
As endorsed unreservedly by Madam Speaker Beckett.
Withdraw Sir ....
That was not an ARSE call but the febrile musings of a Scottish noble intoxicated by Mrs JackW leaving her credit cards at home while travelling to New York ....
Now he's trying to woo me back with sweet nothings
John, There's nothing quite like Conference.
The whole Party - the Cabinet, MPs, Councillors, our Members, volunteers and supporters - get together to set out our priorities and plan the campaigns that will help secure a better and brighter future for Britain. This year's Conference in Birmingham (Sept 28th - Oct 1st) will be our last before the General Election - and I really want you there, John.
Catching up with Members from across the country is one of the things I look forward to most about Conference. And this year especially, I want to hear your views on what we should do as a Party between now and the election.
This year's Conference is a crucial step on that path - that's why we need you there, John.
I may not be the first to notice this, but the swing away from the LDs over wave 1 and 2 is shocking. How can they still be being squeezed at such low numbers? If this hollowing out of support is born out the lost deposits betting will be very interesting.
The LDs will be squeezed like crazy in seats where they are not in contention. Chalking up big vote shares where it doesn't matter is a fool's game.
A side effect of the AV referendum is that people think more clearly about the effect of their vote. Do you want to go with a certain loser or maybe make a difference?
'A side effect of the AV referendum is that people think more clearly about the effect of their vote. Do you want to go with a certain loser or maybe make a difference?'
I would have thought that the average voter wouldn't even remember we had an AV referendum four years ago,let alone the prose & cons of the system.
I refer you to your post and that of Hugh immediately below it.
I refer you to TSE's contention earlier and his post about the Ashcroft marginals poll I linked to earlier.
I refer you to these and I say QED.
I refer you to the greatest predicative election organization in the history of mankind - namely my ARSE.
And I say ....
Never Knowingly Undersold.
As endorsed unreservedly by Madam Speaker Beckett.
Ouch, turning on your campaign manager!
I'm bitter and twisted at the moment. No one is immune. And Dave, my patience with you is exhausted. And all I wanted was a peerage, not even an hereditary one for goodness sake.
The hereditary ones are the only ones worth having.
I'll never forgive Macmillan for that ersatz constitutional abomination.
One thing about the Indy ref - look at the amount of Jam & Apple Pie that has been stuffed Scotland's way since it's been announced.
If I was in Scotland I'd probably vote No/SNP...
Pulpstar can you tell me what jam & apple pie you are talking about. I have only seen cuts and vague promises to stiff us with income tax whilst slashing the budget and leaving us in the mire.
More powers over income tax, Glasgow shipping being more looked after than Pompey are a couple that spring to mind.
Pulpstar, re above
Giving the income tax responsibility and cutting the budget is not transferring powers. It is a burden and leaves you at the mercy of the tax take , given you have no way to change rates. So with budget slashed if income tax drops you are scuppered and do not have all the other taxes to balance the changing income tax revenue. So a pig in a poke. Shipbuilding , POrtsmouth reduced from circa 12,000 to circa 11,000. Govan went from 3500 to 2500, not exactly giving any great benefits from my viewpoint and that is only if they order sufficient new ships , and then closure. So far we have only been handed a shitty stick. The shit sandwiches are being prepared.
Whine whine whine - make your own luck Malc - cut income tax and watch the take soar...
Is that finance from dummies I, how can you cut income tax and soar if all your other money and the benefits go to London. Stick to what you are good at. Given also that HMRC cannot apply differing rates it would be rather difficult in any event.
@GeoffM Give someone mentally subnormal a place in the HOL just because he was the families first born? Now I know not all of them are, but even you can see that unless you want to hand out a perpetual perk, there has to be a more sensible way?
I refer you to your post and that of Hugh immediately below it.
I refer you to TSE's contention earlier and his post about the Ashcroft marginals poll I linked to earlier.
I refer you to these and I say QED.
I refer you to the greatest predicative election organization in the history of mankind - namely my ARSE.
And I say ....
Never Knowingly Undersold.
As endorsed unreservedly by Madam Speaker Beckett.
Ouch, turning on your campaign manager!
I'm bitter and twisted at the moment. No one is immune. And Dave, my patience with you is exhausted. And all I wanted was a peerage, not even an hereditary one for goodness sake.
The hereditary ones are the only ones worth having.
I'll never forgive Macmillan for that ersatz constitutional abomination.
Why would you want to risk some complete dimwit having a pass to the upper chamber through accident of birth?
@BobaFett Because Bob, as with many other things, it is their right, and they are "entitled" to it. The right wing are very keen on rights. There own, and sod everyone else.
@BobaFett Because Bob, as with many other things, it is their right, and they are "entitled" to it. The right wing are very keen on rights. There own, and sod everyone else.
I hope the PB Grammar Pedants note your egregious violation.
The other right us right wingers like is Droit du seigneur
@TheScreamingEagles Your other right is one wall, four walls being three to many for you parasites. (Dear NSA, this is a long standing joke so ignore it and go back to looking at Facebook porn)
@BobaFett Because Bob, as with many other things, it is their right, and they are "entitled" to it. The right wing are very keen on rights. There own, and sod everyone else.
I hope the PB Grammar Pedants note your egregious violation.
The other right us right wingers like is Droit du seigneur
Should have gone to a free school - basics like spelling rather than global warming studies..
The hereditary principle for selecting legislators worked pretty well for a very long time. Indeed the number of competent and far sighted working peers probably exceeded the number of elected MPs of equal quality.
Besides a system where by some A-list selectee can be parachuted into a safe seat is hardly democratic. Furthermore the Labour party do seem to like their dynasties.
@HurstLlama I am not sure where this is going. But do you believe in more democracy or less?
Oh, less, much less. I have said so on here many times and provided various quotes from diverse political philosophers across many centuries setting out why.
@HurstLlama Restoration of the divine right of kings, and peasants as property? I am not sure you will get many votes for that manifesto, "but god loves a trier".
Great article by Alex Massie about the lunatic CON policy on the ECHR... Truly barmy.
The Conservatives' alleged policy is indeed bonkers. That said, Massie's article entirely skirts over the very real problems of the status quo, including the irrational and inconsistent decisions of the Strasbourg court, the court's inability to understand the law of England and Wales, and the notoriously poor quality of its jurisprudence. The obvious solution is to maintain the Human Rights Act 1998, but to withdraw from the convention, and oblige British courts to have no regard to decisions of the court. But the Conservatives do not have the courage to advocate such a policy, so have ended up in the intellectual cul-de-sac which they now occupy.
@HurstLlama Restoration of the divine right of kings, and peasants as property? I am not sure you will get many votes for that manifesto, "but god loves a trier".
You are confusing final and efficient causes. Democracy is a means of instituting political power. It does not imply that power should be used in any particular way. It's time that you read the Politics of Aristotle.
@HurstLlama Restoration of the divine right of kings, and peasants as property? I am not sure you will get many votes for that manifesto, "but god loves a trier".
Comrade, you words into my mouth and ascribe to me beliefs I don't hold. Which is jolly naughty of you. I have no intention of campaigning for anything, I just don't believe democracy is the best system of government. I'd go so far as to say that a form of pseudo democracy with the universal franchise, such as our own, is probably the quickest way to national poverty and it will eventually collapse into God knows what.
@HurstLlama Restoration of the divine right of kings, and peasants as property? I am not sure you will get many votes for that manifesto, "but god loves a trier".
You are confusing final and efficient causes. Democracy is a means of instituting political power. It does not imply that power should be used in any particular way. It's time that you read the Politics of Aristotle.
Mr. Town, Aristotle was not the only political philosopher to have existed. The have been others and not everyone agrees with him. If you think democracy is the best system, fine. I don't. Nor do I believe in the divine right of kings or that feudalism would be a good idea.
It's time you lot moved on, looking for answers in the past can be helpful, But it doesn't always contain answers to the future. And we have a "constitution"? Or is it more like the Monty Python sketch?
Reporter :- We heard Doug nailed your head to the floor?
Victim :- Yes, but I deserved it, I had transgressed the unwritten law!
Great article by Alex Massie about the lunatic CON policy on the ECHR... Truly barmy.
The Conservatives' alleged policy is indeed bonkers. That said, Massie's article entirely skirts over the very real problems of the status quo, including the irrational and inconsistent decisions of the Strasbourg court, the court's inability to understand the law of England and Wales, and the notoriously poor quality of its jurisprudence. The obvious solution is to maintain the Human Rights Act 1998, but to withdraw from the convention, and oblige British courts to have no regard to decisions of the court. But the Conservatives do not have the courage to advocate such a policy, so have ended up in the intellectual cul-de-sac which they now occupy.
Exactly. For all that the Tory policy is laughable, continued membership of the ECHR is equally ludicrous.
It's time you lot moved on, looking for answers in the past can be helpful, But it doesn't always contain answers to the future. And we have a "constitution"? Or is it more like the Monty Python sketch?
Reporter :- We heard Doug nailed your head to the floor?
Victim :- Yes, but I deserved it, I had transgressed the unwritten law!
Reporter :- Which one?
Victim :- Dunno? it was never written down
Sharp, those "Python" boys?
"Constitution" can be used in a legal sense and in the field of "political science". The United Kingdom has a constitution in both these senses, albeit that we do not have an entrenched, written constitution. Much of our law is indeed "unwritten". That is a key distinction between our common law and the Napoleonic codes of the continent.
I am not 'looking for answers in the past'. My opposition to pure democracy is based entirely on philosophical grounds. For an injustice is not cured by the ratification of the mob. It is compounded.
@Life_ina_market_town My problem is much the same. A bunch of semi evolved apes hitting each other with sticks, instead of using God or natures gift of language. Being controlled by some idiot at the back of the fight, wears a little thin after a few millenia.
The thing about Thurrock, has any party ever come from fifth to win?
They were 5th behind the BNP, and nearly 13k behind Con and Lab.
The average UKIPper disagrees very little with the BNP. For example, looking at the UKIPper massive in the DT comments, how many UKIPpers would seriously disagree that Britain is "a multicultural shithole" which is under the process of "ethnic cleansing" and faces many more Lee Rigby-style executions perpetrated by "tribal African" people?
The thing is, that is the considered view of the new leader of the BNP. Anyone espousing the milder view - that EU immigration is a bit out of hand, and we need to do something about our borders - is a Tory, not a UKIPper.
So in that seat you could add UKIP to BNP and reckon from there.
You have fundamentally misunderstood the nature of UKIP's divergence from The Conservatives. It is not extremity of viewpoint that seperates them, it is the determination that action must follow sentiment. It may be that many Tories feel 'EU immigration is a bit out of hand, and we need to do something about our borders' -but the upper echelons of their party will simply NEVER allow that. Those who do attempt to advance such initiatives within the Tory party are darkly hinted at as being 'ideological' -a smear that means nutter.
To believe that 'EU immigration is a bit out of hand, and we need to do something about our borders' but to remain within the Conservative indicates either terminal delusion or intellectual cowardice. Ukipper's haven't moved away from the Tory Party, the Tory Party has been taken from them.
Considering you're an Assad and Putin apologist, I'm glad you think the Tory party isn't for you.
Considering you value synthetic outrage over rational discussion; considering you prefer to play the man not the ball; considering you think a half-arsed soundbite is an impressive counter argument; I'm not surprised that you're comfortable in today's Conservative party.
Comments
Not really. Only on PB is one survey deemed a trend, and even then only when it's "good" for the Tories
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/thurrock/winning-party
Just MOE
I think what Sunil was saying is he is a secular Muslim, i.e. for whom the spread of the religion or rule by sharia etc.. does not drive his politics.
So keep hiking up Mount Wrongess, I'll stick with the polling.
I doubt the surge in UKIP in places like Rotherham will be enough to go over Labour's big majorities.
Now if we had a major cross over for several months, that might kill off hope?
http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/05/24/the-ashcroft-polling-is-out-and-its-great-for-ed/
Who knows how the *next* 14 Labour target seats are polling !
I've pointed this out a few times on here
UPDATE: Actually I’ve just spotted that the fieldwork in the Tory held seats was done earlier than the fieldwork in the Labour held seats. So comparing the swing in Con-Lab seats to the swing in national polls at the time the polls were done shows no difference at all (both show swing of 5.5%). Comparing the swing in Lab-Con seats to the swing in national polls at the time those polls were done shows Lab doing about 1.5 points better in seats they already hold.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/8842
I'm not sure what to make of this marginals polling except that, as an LD, I'm reminded of the old Glee Club song "Losing Deposits"...
On these numbers, UKIP would make the most significant breakthrough in votes since the Liberals in February 1974 went from 7.5% to 19.3%. Of course, that didn't do the Liberal Party much good in terms of seats but (along with rises in the SNP/PC vote) dragged the Con/Lab vote share down from 90% to 75% and now (on some polls) it's between 60-65%.
There are some other parallels with Feb 74 out there - the Conservatives won the most votes while Labour won the most seats.
There seems to be a trend for a highly-concentrated yet much-reduced LD vote and a greater but more geographic diverse UKIP vote but part from East Ham as a Labour hold, I wouldn't want to predict let alone have money on anything relating to next year's GE just yet.
I'm more interested in Saturday's King George - I fancy FLINTSHIRE and TRADING LEATHER as e/w bets against the favourites (both available at 14s).
That's the trend from the available polling.
Edit ComRes' marginals poll effectively showed the Tories ahead on the national vote if we applied the marginals swing nationwide
Giving the income tax responsibility and cutting the budget is not transferring powers. It is a burden and leaves you at the mercy of the tax take , given you have no way to change rates. So with budget slashed if income tax drops you are scuppered and do not have all the other taxes to balance the changing income tax revenue. So a pig in a poke.
Shipbuilding , POrtsmouth reduced from circa 12,000 to circa 11,000. Govan went from 3500 to 2500, not exactly giving any great benefits from my viewpoint and that is only if they order sufficient new ships , and then closure.
So far we have only been handed a shitty stick. The shit sandwiches are being prepared.
I don't know what to believe any more.
That all said - these are Ashcroft polls, who does?
Kamal Ahmed @bbckamal 3m
Royal Mail's share price (449p) is now below where it ended on the first day of trading as a listed company (455p). Down 3.5% today
Then I think about Diane Abbot, Emily Thornberry, David Lammy, and Chris Bryant for a minute and remember why I left
As in previous elections, other things being equal, the national swing is a fair guide to what happens - it's not that there aren't local effects, but they even out. The potential for UKIP making breakthroughs is of course a special case.
I would have thought Lammy would have been your kind of Labourite. But then I recalled which team he supports ;-)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=change+at+Baker+Street
Technically you can also change from Pink to Brown at Paddington, though the H & C line platforms are structurally part of the main line station (Plats. 15 & 16).
Probably best to do as @NickP says and stick to UNS.
This Commuter’s Awkward Reaction To A Guy Singing On The Tube Is The Most London Thing Ever
http://www.buzzfeed.com/richardhjames/this-is-london?s=mobile#
Which we knew anyway.
Ed Miliband Will Never Be Prime Minister.
I refer you to your post and that of Hugh immediately below it.
I refer you to TSE's contention earlier and his post about the Ashcroft marginals poll I linked to earlier.
I refer you to these and I say QED.
https://www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/news-articles/bakerloo-line-changes-at-paddington-station
Sweet Lord, I've out train-nerded Sunil. I need a break!
And I say ....
Never Knowingly Undersold.
Student loans a mess.
No-one sacked.
Osbornomics in action.
"Su"nil means "good" blue. Not a Tory then !
That was not an ARSE call but the febrile musings of a Scottish noble intoxicated by Mrs JackW leaving her credit cards at home while travelling to New York ....
Short lived bliss ....
John,
There's nothing quite like Conference.
The whole Party - the Cabinet, MPs, Councillors, our Members, volunteers and supporters - get together to set out our priorities and plan the campaigns that will help secure a better and brighter future for Britain.
This year's Conference in Birmingham (Sept 28th - Oct 1st) will be our last before the General Election - and I really want you there, John.
Catching up with Members from across the country is one of the things I look forward to most about Conference. And this year especially, I want to hear your views on what we should do as a Party between now and the election.
This year's Conference is a crucial step on that path - that's why we need you there, John.
Thanks,
David
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/07/britain-has-very-little-to-fear-from-the-echr-so-why-are-so-many-tories-so-afraid-of-it/
Truly barmy.
A side effect of the AV referendum is that people think more clearly about the effect of their vote. Do you want to go with a certain loser or maybe make a difference?
'A side effect of the AV referendum is that people think more clearly about the effect of their vote. Do you want to go with a certain loser or maybe make a difference?'
I would have thought that the average voter wouldn't even remember we had an AV referendum four years ago,let alone the prose & cons of the system.
http://rapidis.blogactiv.eu/2014/07/21/could-ihsanoglu-challenge-erdogan/?utm_source=EurActiv+Newsletter&utm_campaign=9cfec85184-Bmail&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_bab5f0ea4e-9cfec85184-245514803
I'll never forgive Macmillan for that ersatz constitutional abomination.
I seem to have missed them.
http://labourlist.org/2014/07/shadow-home-office-minister-steps-down/
Given also that HMRC cannot apply differing rates it would be rather difficult in any event.
Give someone mentally subnormal a place in the HOL just because he was the families first born?
Now I know not all of them are, but even you can see that unless you want to hand out a perpetual perk, there has to be a more sensible way?
Because Bob, as with many other things, it is their right, and they are "entitled" to it.
The right wing are very keen on rights.
There own, and sod everyone else.
The other right us right wingers like is Droit du seigneur
Your other right is one wall, four walls being three to many for you parasites.
(Dear NSA, this is a long standing joke so ignore it and go back to looking at Facebook porn)
This poll is very, very in line with Lord Ashcroft's latest (National) polling.
Besides a system where by some A-list selectee can be parachuted into a safe seat is hardly democratic. Furthermore the Labour party do seem to like their dynasties.
I am not sure where this is going. But do you believe in more democracy or less?
I leave for 5 days and looks what happens.
We miss your calm and steadying presence Speedy.
Restoration of the divine right of kings, and peasants as property?
I am not sure you will get many votes for that manifesto, "but god loves a trier".
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/22/us-airlines-scrap-flights-to-israel-over-missile-fears/
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/22/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/
This statement gives the win to Israel though:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/07/22/israeli-ambassador-idf-deserves-nobel.html
It's time you lot moved on, looking for answers in the past can be helpful, But it doesn't always contain answers to the future.
And we have a "constitution"? Or is it more like the Monty Python sketch?
Reporter :- We heard Doug nailed your head to the floor?
Victim :- Yes, but I deserved it, I had transgressed the unwritten law!
Reporter :- Which one?
Victim :- Dunno? it was never written down
Sharp, those "Python" boys?
I am not 'looking for answers in the past'. My opposition to pure democracy is based entirely on philosophical grounds. For an injustice is not cured by the ratification of the mob. It is compounded.
My problem is much the same.
A bunch of semi evolved apes hitting each other with sticks, instead of using God or natures gift of language.
Being controlled by some idiot at the back of the fight, wears a little thin after a few millenia.
considering you prefer to play the man not the ball;
considering you think a half-arsed soundbite is an impressive counter argument;
I'm not surprised that you're comfortable in today's Conservative party.