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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Good IndyRef poll for YES, LAB moves to 7% YouGov lead whil

SystemSystem Posts: 11,693
edited July 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Good IndyRef poll for YES, LAB moves to 7% YouGov lead while UKIP have a dreadful night in latest by-elections

For whatever reason TNS and YouGov IndyRef polls have generally had the worst numbers for YES while Survation, ICM and PanelBase have had the best. Polling though is all about trends which is why the YES campaign is delighted by the latest from TNS-BMRB. After three other polls from other firms suggested that YES had stalled TNS overnight has them in their best position yet.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    First ..... again!
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    A pretty miserable night's results for the Tories it has to be said.
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    Typo - should read: benefitting more
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Typo: Cannot have a negative vote under present voting rules. You have copied another person's error.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,339
    I must say that whilst recent polling has not been great a tory vote of -51 is surely a new low.
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Odd thing about the airliner - assuming the most likely option is the Donbass separatists shot it down thinking it was one of those Antonov transport planes they've been shooting down recently - is given they've been shooting down large transport planes recently why airliners weren't being diverted?

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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557

    A pretty miserable night's results for the Tories it has to be said.

    They will be delighted if UKIP really are beginning to decline, which we now seem to be getting solid evidence for.
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    MrJones said:

    Odd thing about the airliner - assuming the most likely option is the Donbass separatists shot it down thinking it was one of those Antonov transport planes they've been shooting down recently - is given they've been shooting down large transport planes recently why airliners weren't being diverted?

    Same thing crossed my mind. Utter madness for any company to route their services over a warzone where both sides not only have long-reach surface to air missiles, but are also actually employing them.

    I'm holidaying in Europe.
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    Ho ho. Gordon Brown's book is a total flop. Quelle surprise! Being dumped already with 75% discount:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/1471137481/ref=tmm_hrd_new_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=new&qid=1405638784&sr=1-1
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    A pretty miserable night's results for the Tories it has to be said.

    They will be delighted if UKIP really are beginning to decline, which we now seem to be getting solid evidence for.
    Depends on where those swinging back from UKIP came from. We know that UKIP's supporters have disproportionately come from the Tories *in total* but we also know that once UKIP went above 10%, much more of their new support came from Labour. Is the decline a peeling off of these last voters or is it more proportional to their 2010 support profile? The polls would suggest the former. That said, if UKIP keep declining, then the ex-Con voters will start switching too.
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    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191

    MrJones said:

    Odd thing about the airliner - assuming the most likely option is the Donbass separatists shot it down thinking it was one of those Antonov transport planes they've been shooting down recently - is given they've been shooting down large transport planes recently why airliners weren't being diverted?

    Same thing crossed my mind. Utter madness for any company to route their services over a warzone where both sides not only have long-reach surface to air missiles, but are also actually employing them.

    I'm holidaying in Europe.
    And yet, looking at Flightradar24.com, some commercial flights continue to transit the airspace above the crash site this morning.

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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Could McBride be right?


    Damian McBride
    @DPMcBride
    Got a bad feeling about tomorrow: the world's blowing up, the S&P500 is on a precipice, investors are thinking holidays, #BlackFriday alert.
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Morning from Poznan.

    A mixed night for everyone. A few straws to grasp on most directions, except UKIP.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    DavidL said:

    I must say that whilst recent polling has not been great a tory vote of -51 is surely a new low.

    Apparently not. The Tories plummeted to -618 in Ledbury.

    To be honest, I'm not sure I'd make too much of these results - too many independents and minor parties scoring prominently. That might well indicate a disillusionment with the major political parties but it's not something that can be easily read into a general election projection.

    I'd take the polls more seriously, and Labour does look to have picked up a little of late, with UKIP finally falling back. Again though, I wonder whether this is a revertion to a peacetime state after a closing of the gap during the elections and so again, not necessarily a true reflection of how opinion will move after 4+ weeks of campaigning.
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    Herald front page: "Poll shows Labour supporters are being won over by Yes campaign"

    You heard it here first folks. Do not say you weren't warned.

    http://www.labourforindy.com/
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    hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    Lib Dems still doing well in parts of the country where they have existing MP's. Perhaps they will retain 40+ seats and be in competition with Con/Lab where they have a chance of winning a new seat.

    Looks like the Tories may be sliding a little in the polls and some of the negative issues might be affecting them. There are concerns about A&E in some parts of the country, lack of school places in some areas, cost of living increases with no income increase to match etc.

    Sometimes I do wonder whether Cameron/Osborne come across as too positive about the growth in the economy and this comes up against a wall of negativity. They obviously think that if the government remains upbeat they can overcome negativity and gain support. This might just prove to be irritating to most people, who think Cameron/Osborne are out of touch. Perhaps they need to go back to rolling up the sleeves and say that a lot of hard work is still needed to transform the economy, so the UK has a chance of succeeding in a very challenging new era. They may say this, but they also can't resist in saying what a good job they are going.
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    MikeK said:

    Could McBride be right?


    Damian McBride
    @DPMcBride
    Got a bad feeling about tomorrow: the world's blowing up, the S&P500 is on a precipice, investors are thinking holidays, #BlackFriday alert.

    Yes.

    I am extremely light on equities and have piled onto good ole cash n gold up to my eyeballs. I am very, very comfortable with that position thank you very much.

    Anybody nearer than 10 years to retirement should avoid equities like the plague. I will only get back into that field once the serious correction has occurred.
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    hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    Gadfly said:

    MrJones said:

    Odd thing about the airliner - assuming the most likely option is the Donbass separatists shot it down thinking it was one of those Antonov transport planes they've been shooting down recently - is given they've been shooting down large transport planes recently why airliners weren't being diverted?

    Same thing crossed my mind. Utter madness for any company to route their services over a warzone where both sides not only have long-reach surface to air missiles, but are also actually employing them.

    I'm holidaying in Europe.
    And yet, looking at Flightradar24.com, some commercial flights continue to transit the airspace above the crash site this morning.

    Apparently those online flight radar sites only provide a representation of an approximate route that the plane might be on. I debated this with a couple of pilots and they said that you should not believe the accuracy of the information online.
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    hucks67 said:

    Lib Dems still doing well in parts of the country where they have existing MP's. Perhaps they will retain 40+ seats and be in competition with Con/Lab where they have a chance of winning a new seat.

    Shadsy's LD line bet is 32.5 seats (10/11 both above and below).

    40+ LD seats is 5/1, which funnily enough is longer than Shadsy's YES price (9/2).
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    FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    MikeK said:

    Could McBride be right?


    Damian McBride
    @DPMcBride
    Got a bad feeling about tomorrow: the world's blowing up, the S&P500 is on a precipice, investors are thinking holidays, #BlackFriday alert.

    Yes.

    I am extremely light on equities and have piled onto good ole cash n gold up to my eyeballs. I am very, very comfortable with that position thank you very much.

    Anybody nearer than 10 years to retirement should avoid equities like the plague. I will only get back into that field once the serious correction has occurred.
    Depends on the market, some are cheap. View any dip as a buying opportunity. Caveat emptor though.

    Europe is in a lull at the moment, sovereign debt remains unsustainable and the banking system is hiding real problems. An energy prices spike, a continued slowdown in Eastern Europe could tip things.
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557

    A pretty miserable night's results for the Tories it has to be said.

    They will be delighted if UKIP really are beginning to decline, which we now seem to be getting solid evidence for.
    Depends on where those swinging back from UKIP came from. We know that UKIP's supporters have disproportionately come from the Tories *in total* but we also know that once UKIP went above 10%, much more of their new support came from Labour. Is the decline a peeling off of these last voters or is it more proportional to their 2010 support profile? The polls would suggest the former. That said, if UKIP keep declining, then the ex-Con voters will start switching too.
    Good point. With UKIP recently delivering 30% in England but only 10% in Scotland, I have not been keeping that close an eye on the details. I can understand that you are much more interested in the subtleties of their vote.
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    FalseFlag said:

    MikeK said:

    Could McBride be right?


    Damian McBride
    @DPMcBride
    Got a bad feeling about tomorrow: the world's blowing up, the S&P500 is on a precipice, investors are thinking holidays, #BlackFriday alert.

    Yes.

    I am extremely light on equities and have piled onto good ole cash n gold up to my eyeballs. I am very, very comfortable with that position thank you very much.

    Anybody nearer than 10 years to retirement should avoid equities like the plague. I will only get back into that field once the serious correction has occurred.
    Depends on the market, some are cheap. View any dip as a buying opportunity. Caveat emptor though.

    Europe is in a lull at the moment, sovereign debt remains unsustainable and the banking system is hiding real problems. An energy prices spike, a continued slowdown in Eastern Europe could tip things.
    It is European property markets that concern me. The madness is not confined to England.
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    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    Perhaps we should be able to vote against a Party rather than for another one. It would certainly make campaigning more interesting, and as for knocking-up...
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    philiph said:

    Morning from Poznan.

    A mixed night for everyone. A few straws to grasp on most directions, except UKIP.

    Yes, UKIP had a poor night but to be expected when UKIP is off the front pages and verboten on BBC and Sky. I think things will change is Late September when the Conference season and pre campaign maneuvering starts.
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    The No campaign's lead in the Poll of Polls mean average (not excluding Don't Knows) :

    Sep 2013 - 21.6%
    Sep 2013 - 21.4%
    Sep 2013 - 19.4%
    Oct 2013 - 18.8%
    Oct 2013 - 18.4%
    Oct 2013 - 18.2%
    Nov 2013 - 18.4%
    Nov 2013 - 18.0%
    Dec 2013 - 17.0%
    Dec 2013 - 16.8%
    Dec 2013 - 16.4%
    Jan 2014 - 14.4%
    Jan 2014 - 14.2%
    Jan 2014 - 14.2%
    Jan 2014 - 15.2%
    Feb 2014 - 15.0%
    Feb 2014 - 15.5%
    Feb 2014 - 15.5%
    Feb 2014 - 13.7%
    Feb 2014 - 13.3%
    Feb 2014 - 14.2%
    Mar 2014 - 14.2%
    Mar 2014 - 14.5%
    Mar 2014 - 14.5%
    Mar 2014 - 14.7%
    Mar 2014 - 13.8%
    Mar 2014 - 13.0%
    Mar 2014 - 12.5%
    Apr 2014 - 12.5%
    Apr 2014 - 12.7%
    Apr 2014 - 12.7%
    Apr 2014 - 12.3%
    Apr 2014 - 11.4%
    May 2014 - 11.2%
    May 2014 - 11.2%
    May 2014 - 11.5%
    May 2014 - 13.3%
    Jun 2014 - 12.1%
    Jun 2014 - 12.1%
    Jun 2014 - 11.3%
    Jun 2014 - 9.9%
    Jun 2014 - 10.3%
    Jun 2014 - 10.7%
    Jul 2014 - 11.0%
    Jul 2014 - 11.0%
    Jul 2014 - 11.7%
    Jul 2014 - 10.9%
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,339

    DavidL said:

    I must say that whilst recent polling has not been great a tory vote of -51 is surely a new low.

    Apparently not. The Tories plummeted to -618 in Ledbury.

    To be honest, I'm not sure I'd make too much of these results - too many independents and minor parties scoring prominently. That might well indicate a disillusionment with the major political parties but it's not something that can be easily read into a general election projection.

    I'd take the polls more seriously, and Labour does look to have picked up a little of late, with UKIP finally falling back. Again though, I wonder whether this is a revertion to a peacetime state after a closing of the gap during the elections and so again, not necessarily a true reflection of how opinion will move after 4+ weeks of campaigning.
    The current picture is confusing but I think it is reasonably clear that the Tories are not making the sort of recovery that we have seen by governments prior to other elections.

    One element of the speculation is that this has been distorted by fixed term Parliaments but if ever was a factor I have difficulty in seeing it now since we are in a timescale where we would normally have some idea even without fixed Parliaments. Everyone knew in 2009, for example, that Labour was going to go long in the hope that something turned up.
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    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    hucks67 said:

    Gadfly said:

    MrJones said:

    Odd thing about the airliner - assuming the most likely option is the Donbass separatists shot it down thinking it was one of those Antonov transport planes they've been shooting down recently - is given they've been shooting down large transport planes recently why airliners weren't being diverted?

    Same thing crossed my mind. Utter madness for any company to route their services over a warzone where both sides not only have long-reach surface to air missiles, but are also actually employing them.

    I'm holidaying in Europe.
    And yet, looking at Flightradar24.com, some commercial flights continue to transit the airspace above the crash site this morning.

    Apparently those online flight radar sites only provide a representation of an approximate route that the plane might be on. I debated this with a couple of pilots and they said that you should not believe the accuracy of the information online.
    I live beneath the main Europe-USA air corridor and am always able to identify the aircraft flying above my house in pretty much real time. Much will depend upon what is meant by 'accuracy', and this may of course differ further afield.

    The flights currently been shown by Flightradar24.com all seem to keeping south of the north-eastern tip of the Sea of Azov.

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    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    MikeK said:
    Not a single Muslim in the world can practise their religion fully until not only Israel, but also western culture in toto has been absolutely destroyed. Most of them - and I live in a neighbourhood full of Arabs - are more than happy to say "insh'Allah", but this does not change the principle.

    Principles are very dangerous things, and human beings should not be allowed anywhere near them.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Good morning, everyone.

    If you need a distraction from the generally horrid news, don't forget P1 starts at 9am today.
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Back on the railways stuff, I am led to believe that the Tories aim to re-privatise East Coast in February. This timing seems odd - pushing the news on to Labour home territory, allowing the Loto to cast the government as ideological zealots just before the election.

    http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/customers-give-east-coast-top-satisfaction-rating-in-latest-survey/
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,339
    edited July 2014
    Interesting piece from Fraser Nelson speculating that the incredible jobs boom we are enjoying (creating more jobs than the rest of the EU put together) is being driven by IDS's reforms to welfare: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10973875/Whats-the-secret-behind-our-jobs-miracle-Welfare-reform.html


    The scale of this is hard to credit. Nelson says:

    "Each month, the figures confound the predictions of even the most optimistic economists. In last year’s Budget, for example, George Osborne set out an ambitious target of getting 900,000 more people into work by 2018. This figure will now be reached next month."

    Is this the answer? Are all these penalties being imposed in an arbitrary way and rent arrears arising from reductions in Housing Benefit really pushing hundreds of thousands to think, "oh sod it, I'll get a job then"?

    My guess is that there is a bit of that but the more important part is the drive in making work pay by providing much more generous in work benefits. In other words I think the carrot rather than the stick. But one way or another this is starting to look like one of the most successful public policy changes in recent decades. It is not doing much for the deficit though.
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    The Labour rail package looks big and well considered. Very quiet on here today, as has been the case since last night's YouGov. Tories need more backbone!

    “One of the biggest decisions that will be taken at Labour’s National Policy Forum, which opens in Milton Keynes tomorrow, will be on the party’s rail policy. As has long been known, Ed Miliband will pledge to reform the franchising system to allow publicly-owned bodies to bid for contracts as they expire (in contrast to the coalition’s dogmatic allegiance to the private sector). But I understand that the full package goes far beyond this.
    In what would be the biggest reform of the railways since privatisation, Labour will pledge to create a new overarching body, accountable to parliament, tasked with implementing a national strategy for the railways. This would bring Network Rail and a new passenger rail body together to co-ordinate passenger operations, manage infrastructure, oversee stations and ticketing, and ensure customer satisfaction across the network.
    As part of its plan to ease the living standards crisis, the party will also seek to reduce the pressure on commuters by capping annual fare rises on every route, simplifying price structures and creating a new legal right to the cheapest ticket. In addition, it will vow to devolve regional and commuter services in an attempt to improve local transport, integrating trains, buses and trams along the lines of the Transport for London model.”

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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @DavidL
    Hardly news, I have been pointing out basically the same thing for years now, and being roundly criticized for saying it.
    The real fun begins shortly after the next election, when IDS brings in a new set of rules for the self employed.
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    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Broken sleazy reactionary xenophobe purples on the slide.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    BobaFett said:

    The Labour rail package looks big and well considered. Very quiet on here today, as has been the case since last night's YouGov. Tories need more backbone!

    “One of the biggest decisions that will be taken at Labour’s National Policy Forum, which opens in Milton Keynes tomorrow, will be on the party’s rail policy. As has long been known, Ed Miliband will pledge to reform the franchising system to allow publicly-owned bodies to bid for contracts as they expire (in contrast to the coalition’s dogmatic allegiance to the private sector). But I understand that the full package goes far beyond this.
    In what would be the biggest reform of the railways since privatisation, Labour will pledge to create a new overarching body, accountable to parliament, tasked with implementing a national strategy for the railways. This would bring Network Rail and a new passenger rail body together to co-ordinate passenger operations, manage infrastructure, oversee stations and ticketing, and ensure customer satisfaction across the network.
    As part of its plan to ease the living standards crisis, the party will also seek to reduce the pressure on commuters by capping annual fare rises on every route, simplifying price structures and creating a new legal right to the cheapest ticket. In addition, it will vow to devolve regional and commuter services in an attempt to improve local transport, integrating trains, buses and trams along the lines of the Transport for London model.”

    1. What will be the source of the money to "allow publicly-owned bodies to bid for contracts"?

    2. Easiest with pricing is to allow just one fare at all times - will put prices up - are you proposing nationalisation by default?
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited July 2014
    BobaFett said:

    The Labour rail package looks big and well considered. Very quiet on here today, as has been the case since last night's YouGov. Tories need more backbone!

    “One of the biggest decisions that will be taken at Labour’s National Policy Forum, which opens in Milton Keynes tomorrow, will be on the party’s rail policy. As has long been known, Ed Miliband will pledge to reform the franchising system to allow publicly-owned bodies to bid for contracts as they expire (in contrast to the coalition’s dogmatic allegiance to the private sector). But I understand that the full package goes far beyond this.
    In what would be the biggest reform of the railways since privatisation, Labour will pledge to create a new overarching body, accountable to parliament, tasked with implementing a national strategy for the railways. This would bring Network Rail and a new passenger rail body together to co-ordinate passenger operations, manage infrastructure, oversee stations and ticketing, and ensure customer satisfaction across the network.
    As part of its plan to ease the living standards crisis, the party will also seek to reduce the pressure on commuters by capping annual fare rises on every route, simplifying price structures and creating a new legal right to the cheapest ticket. In addition, it will vow to devolve regional and commuter services in an attempt to improve local transport, integrating trains, buses and trams along the lines of the Transport for London model.”

    good idea????. Public ownership is bad, we must not forget what a shambles British Rail was.



    Its a typical half hearted nonsense. You think any Govt will have the money to invest in the infrastructure? UKPLC is bust as a result of your party's stewardship in case you had forgotten.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,339
    Smarmeron said:

    @DavidL
    Hardly news, I have been pointing out basically the same thing for years now, and being roundly criticized for saying it.
    The real fun begins shortly after the next election, when IDS brings in a new set of rules for the self employed.

    Labour's position still seems to be that you cannot have growth in employment without increases in government spending and that cuts are self defeating. This has been proved to be wrong on a truly epic scale.

    As I have said before on here the question is whether we can have too much of a good thing. If welfare reform is to produce significant cuts in public spending the current level of generosity for in work benefits cannot continue. I think this is inevitable.

    The right end of the taper is of course the top end. Those earning more than the average wage will, I think, find their in work entitlements severely cut after the election to protect the 16 hour a week subsidised labour.

    But the point is that even with all the problems with Universal Credit, which has frustrated and worried me, the reforms already in place actually make IDS one of the success stories of this government. It is not the public perception but he has delivered something not much short of a miracle in an economy still growing only modestly.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @DavidL

    Is the Coalition pairing of IDS & Steve Webb providing the greatest team performance since Germany beat Brazil 7:1

    Discuss.
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    DavidL said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @DavidL
    Hardly news, I have been pointing out basically the same thing for years now, and being roundly criticized for saying it.
    The real fun begins shortly after the next election, when IDS brings in a new set of rules for the self employed.

    Labour's position still seems to be that you cannot have growth in employment without increases in government spending and that cuts are self defeating. This has been proved to be wrong on a truly epic scale.

    As I have said before on here the question is whether we can have too much of a good thing. If welfare reform is to produce significant cuts in public spending the current level of generosity for in work benefits cannot continue. I think this is inevitable.

    The right end of the taper is of course the top end. Those earning more than the average wage will, I think, find their in work entitlements severely cut after the election to protect the 16 hour a week subsidised labour.

    But the point is that even with all the problems with Universal Credit, which has frustrated and worried me, the reforms already in place actually make IDS one of the success stories of this government. It is not the public perception but he has delivered something not much short of a miracle in an economy still growing only modestly.
    1) "Labour's position still seems to be that you cannot have growth in employment without increases in government spending"

    2) "the question is whether we can have too much of a good thing. If welfare reform is to produce significant cuts in public spending the current level of generosity for in work benefits cannot continue."

    So they're right then - even if for the wrong reason.

    Using mass immigration to drive wages down effectively transfers wage costs from the employer to the taxpayer.

    Which is why big business lobbied the political class to open and keep open the borders.

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    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    BobaFett said:

    The Labour rail package looks big and well considered. Very quiet on here today, as has been the case since last night's YouGov. Tories need more backbone!

    “One of the biggest decisions that will be taken at Labour’s National Policy Forum, which opens in Milton Keynes tomorrow, will be on the party’s rail policy. As has long been known, Ed Miliband will pledge to reform the franchising system to allow publicly-owned bodies to bid for contracts as they expire (in contrast to the coalition’s dogmatic allegiance to the private sector). But I understand that the full package goes far beyond this.
    In what would be the biggest reform of the railways since privatisation, Labour will pledge to create a new overarching body, accountable to parliament, tasked with implementing a national strategy for the railways. This would bring Network Rail and a new passenger rail body together to co-ordinate passenger operations, manage infrastructure, oversee stations and ticketing, and ensure customer satisfaction across the network.
    As part of its plan to ease the living standards crisis, the party will also seek to reduce the pressure on commuters by capping annual fare rises on every route, simplifying price structures and creating a new legal right to the cheapest ticket. In addition, it will vow to devolve regional and commuter services in an attempt to improve local transport, integrating trains, buses and trams along the lines of the Transport for London model.”

    good idea????. Public ownership is bad, we must not forget what a shambles British Rail was.



    Its a typical half hearted nonsense. You think any Govt will have the money to invest in the infrastructure? UKPLC is bust as a result of your party's stewardship in case you had forgotten.

    If UKPLC is bust, where does Osborne get his £100bn a year - and rising again - to borrow from?
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @DavidL
    It depends on your point of view on whether or not you consider it a "success".
    The major problem is (and IDS knows this), that those "jobs" are unsustainable, and he has accordingly laid plans that will come in to affect after the election.
    My point of view is that it is the usual smoke and mirrors all governments use, and that no one seems to know or care, preferring the fantasy to the harsh reality.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Roger Helmer ‏@RogerHelmerMEP Jul 16
    Tory MEPs just voted against a referendum, and against treaty reform. And against the proposition that "The euro is inherently flawed".
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2014
    DavidL said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @DavidL
    Hardly news, I have been pointing out basically the same thing for years now, and being roundly criticized for saying it.
    The real fun begins shortly after the next election, when IDS brings in a new set of rules for the self employed.

    Labour's position still seems to be that you cannot have growth in employment without increases in government spending and that cuts are self defeating. This has been proved to be wrong on a truly epic scale.

    As I have said before on here the question is whether we can have too much of a good thing. If welfare reform is to produce significant cuts in public spending the current level of generosity for in work benefits cannot continue. I think this is inevitable.

    The right end of the taper is of course the top end. Those earning more than the average wage will, I think, find their in work entitlements severely cut after the election to protect the 16 hour a week subsidised labour.

    But the point is that even with all the problems with Universal Credit, which has frustrated and worried me, the reforms already in place actually make IDS one of the success stories of this government. It is not the public perception but he has delivered something not much short of a miracle in an economy still growing only modestly.

    Morning all. Working age benefits (which cover a multitude of sins) run at around £50 billion p.a., or around 3% of GDP. They're forecast to drift slightly lower over the next few years (as a percentage of GDP that is). Another way to look at it; they cost about half as much as pensions.

    I absolutely agree that spending cuts will be required in the next parliament and in-work benefits have to be a candidate, but I wouldn't put it at the top of the list.
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    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Only Tories can hail the social security side of welfare spending - still higher than under nearly all of Labour's tenure as % of GDP - as a succcess.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,339
    JackW said:

    @DavidL

    Is the Coalition pairing of IDS & Steve Webb providing the greatest team performance since Germany beat Brazil 7:1

    Discuss.

    Their success will certainly have more longer term benefits for the country than pretty much anything else this government has done.

    But now I must go and get cleared up as I am due to fly off on holiday tomorrow. Never the best of fliers I am looking forward to this flight even less than usual, funnily enough. Thunderstorms promised too.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352
    I think the YG is an outlier - the secondaries have moved sharply as well, and that's usually the sign of a lumpy sample, unless there's been some major news to justify it. I don't think the Gove kerfuffle quite cuts it. That said, David H is probably right that the reason UKIP has dropped but the Tories haven't benefited is that the later UKIP converts from Labour were looser and are drifting back.

    The underlying position remains much the same as it has been for ages, and I'm not convinced that it will change significantly in the last 9 months - people on the doorstep are unusually firm, both Labour and Tory. If you really like or dislike the government, as so many people seem to, all news tends to be filtered through that perception and interpreted to reinforce the prejudice.
    MikeK said:

    philiph said:

    Morning from Poznan.

    A mixed night for everyone. A few straws to grasp on most directions, except UKIP.

    Yes, UKIP had a poor night but to be expected when UKIP is off the front pages and verboten on BBC and Sky. I think things will change is Late September when the Conference season and pre campaign maneuvering starts.
    A non-partisan note to Mike if you've got any links to high command: my (animal welfare) organisation (like no doubt others) has been waiting for ages to book a stand at the UKIP conference, as we did last year. We've been told for months that it's at Doncaster Racecourse and more info will follow in due course. The organisation needs to get its finger out and start accepting bookings - the other parties have been taking them for many months.

    What's Poznan like, Philip?

  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    BenM said:

    Only Tories can hail the social security side of welfare spending - still higher than under nearly all of Labour's tenure as % of GDP - as a succcess.

    Not merely that we still have 2m unemployed, but that these schemes are really slave labour (except for work experience programmes for youngsters). That's what the coalition's spending our taxes on - slave labour!

  • Options
    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 37m

    The council seat which Ukip lost last night in Redditch was one they'd only just picked up on 22 May
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @DavidL

    Enjoy your holiday.
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Innocent_Abroad
    Only some of it could be classed as slave labour, the "self employed" gig is a nice little earner for doing practically nothing except filling in a few forms.
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited July 2014
    DavidL said:

    ..... The scale of this is hard to credit. Nelson says: "Each month, the figures confound the predictions of even the most optimistic economists. In last year’s Budget, for example, George Osborne set out an ambitious target of getting 900,000 more people into work by 2018. This figure will now be reached next month."
    Is this the answer? Are all these penalties being imposed in an arbitrary way and rent arrears arising from reductions in Housing Benefit really pushing hundreds of thousands to think, "oh sod it, I'll get a job then"? My guess is that there is a bit of that but the more important part is the drive in making work pay by providing much more generous in work benefits. In other words I think the carrot rather than the stick. But one way or another this is starting to look like one of the most successful public policy changes in recent decades. It is not doing much for the deficit though.

    It is a fact that we are seeing a much greater share of the jobs created, being taken up by Brits than happened under the last Govt. The figures are circa 50% this time compared to circa 10% under the previous Govt. The question then is why are more Brits taking up the new jobs? It is significant that 18+ months ago the BoE assumed that getting down to 7% unemployment level was not going to be easily achieved based on historical patterns of employment.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    F1: Wolff has a problem with upshifts on her first lap. Bad luck for her (she's in Bottas' car again).
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    BenM said:

    Only Tories can hail the social security side of welfare spending - still higher than under nearly all of Labour's tenure as % of GDP - as a succcess.

    Not merely that we still have 2m unemployed, but that these schemes are really slave labour (except for work experience programmes for youngsters). That's what the coalition's spending our taxes on - slave labour!

    We could certainly do with some slave labour in Harpenden and thereabouts ....

    Can I get a child chimney sweep - Can I eck as like ....
    What of a scullery maid - Might as well ask Farage to drink Perrier water ....
    A journey man under gardener - Charlie Dimmock would be easier to get ....

  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,006
    edited July 2014

    Ho ho. Gordon Brown's book is a total flop. Quelle surprise! Being dumped already with 75% discount:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/1471137481/ref=tmm_hrd_new_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=new&qid=1405638784&sr=1-1

    The Book People (who buy books in bulk cheaply to sell cheaply) selling a book cheaply is not news. The only bit of news is that they are now selling them via Amazon.

    In fact the information that the Book People bought the book is in fact news as clearly they thought the book was interesting enough that people would admit to Work colleagues that they wanted to buy it.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TCPoliticalBetting
    The BOE was touting an interest rate rise when unemployment fell below 7%.
    You can find out why they changed their minds if you read between the lines, but you have to read with no prejudice, just the hard figures.
    This is as difficult for me as it is for yourselves, but it is possible.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,264
    The Labour position on the railways sounds very simple.

    The state successfully part-runs railway franchises in the UK already. Indeed the state part
    runs Southern (just awarded the expanded Thameslink franchise), London Midland, London Overground, Southeastern, Northern Rail, Transpennine Express and Merseyrail.

    And the state wholly runs Greater Anglia, Cross Country, Arriva Trains Wales, Chiltern, Grand Central, East Coast

    What is ludicrous at the moment is that the "state" is France, Germany and the Netherlands, with the British state barred from bidding. A state owned for profit enterprise clearly works as these other governments showed, as Royal Mail showed - the profits are returned to the state as the owner. Noone is proposing a resurrection of BR, just a level playing field.
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    BobaFett said:

    Back on the railways stuff, I am led to believe that the Tories aim to re-privatise East Coast in February. This timing seems odd - pushing the news on to Labour home territory, allowing the Loto to cast the government as ideological zealots just before the election.

    http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/customers-give-east-coast-top-satisfaction-rating-in-latest-survey/

    Aside from the merits of whether a private or state line is best (I have no idea I don't use the railways enough, and was too young to remember BR) rail nationalisation is politically popular so it would definitely seem an odd timing.
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    The Labour position on the railways sounds very simple.

    The state successfully part-runs railway franchises in the UK already. Indeed the state part
    runs Southern (just awarded the expanded Thameslink franchise), London Midland, London Overground, Southeastern, Northern Rail, Transpennine Express and Merseyrail.

    And the state wholly runs Greater Anglia, Cross Country, Arriva Trains Wales, Chiltern, Grand Central, East Coast

    What is ludicrous at the moment is that the "state" is France, Germany and the Netherlands, with the British state barred from bidding. A state owned for profit enterprise clearly works as these other governments showed, as Royal Mail showed - the profits are returned to the state as the owner. Noone is proposing a resurrection of BR, just a level playing field.

    Indeed so. In fact East Coast is run by the British state, because the private sector operator ran away, but the Tories are insisting on re-privatising it just before the election, for reasons known only to themselves. Go for it guys!

    http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/customers-give-east-coast-top-satisfaction-rating-in-latest-survey/
  • Options
    Morning all.
    Completely off topic question to any photography experts on here.
    When trying to take photos of lightning.
    What is a good ISO to use, or is it just pot luck that the shutter is open when the lightning strikes?
  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    BobaFett said:
    You forget, BF, that most Peebie Tories (with honourable exceptions) are simply consumed with anger and will defend to the death their right not to think straight...

  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Financier said:

    BobaFett said:

    The Labour rail package looks big and well considered. Very quiet on here today, as has been the case since last night's YouGov. Tories need more backbone!

    “One of the biggest decisions that will be taken at Labour’s National Policy Forum, which opens in Milton Keynes tomorrow, will be on the party’s rail policy. As has long been known, Ed Miliband will pledge to reform the franchising system to allow publicly-owned bodies to bid for contracts as they expire (in contrast to the coalition’s dogmatic allegiance to the private sector). But I understand that the full package goes far beyond this.
    In what would be the biggest reform of the railways since privatisation, Labour will pledge to create a new overarching body, accountable to parliament, tasked with implementing a national strategy for the railways. This would bring Network Rail and a new passenger rail body together to co-ordinate passenger operations, manage infrastructure, oversee stations and ticketing, and ensure customer satisfaction across the network.
    As part of its plan to ease the living standards crisis, the party will also seek to reduce the pressure on commuters by capping annual fare rises on every route, simplifying price structures and creating a new legal right to the cheapest ticket. In addition, it will vow to devolve regional and commuter services in an attempt to improve local transport, integrating trains, buses and trams along the lines of the Transport for London model.”

    1. What will be the source of the money to "allow publicly-owned bodies to bid for contracts"?

    2. Easiest with pricing is to allow just one fare at all times - will put prices up - are you proposing nationalisation by default?
    There should peak fares and off peak fares.

    There should not be inpenatrable and deliberately confusing structures that no-one understands, and that privatised rail operators are allowed to advertise as cheap tickets despite it effectively being impossible for any working person who does not actually work for the rail company to get one.

    Kings Cross to Edinburgh from* just £19.50

    *from written in 2pt font. It is effectively impossible to buy this ticket, unless you want to travel to Edinburgh on a Tuesday lunchtime with three months' notice.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352
    Not exactly novel but quite a good piece on chief whips:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10972784/Chief-Whips-theyre-not-as-nice-as-they-look.html

    In my experience their success is based on tailoring their approach to the individual. In 13 years I was only "menaced" once, even when I was occasionally voting the "wrong" way - a whip told me that if I didn't vote for a dodgy Bill he'd see I didn't get any front-bench visits. I laughed in his face (I wasn't getting them anyway) and next day the Chief Whip (Armstrong) apologised. If anyone had grabbed my balls as the article claims, I'd have gone straight to Blair and if necessary the press. But they had more luck by appealing to my loyalty and friendship, and in retrospect I was too pliable to that approach.

    In another case, an MP's partner ran off with someone, leaving the MP to care for a disabled child. The whips said sympathetically that the MP should take as much time off voting as needed and forget about them while things were sorted out. Once things had indeed been sorted the grateful MP was fanatically loyal on absolutely everything.

    None of these things should really matter, of course - MPs should only vote on the issues. But they're people, and understanding people is what being a whip is about.
  • Options
    Smarmeron said:
    Thank you muchly.
    I got one decent snap last night from by the office door, will post it up later once I can find my instagram password.

  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    BobaFett said:

    The Labour position on the railways sounds very simple.

    The state successfully part-runs railway franchises in the UK already. Indeed the state part
    runs Southern (just awarded the expanded Thameslink franchise), London Midland, London Overground, Southeastern, Northern Rail, Transpennine Express and Merseyrail.

    And the state wholly runs Greater Anglia, Cross Country, Arriva Trains Wales, Chiltern, Grand Central, East Coast

    What is ludicrous at the moment is that the "state" is France, Germany and the Netherlands, with the British state barred from bidding. A state owned for profit enterprise clearly works as these other governments showed, as Royal Mail showed - the profits are returned to the state as the owner. Noone is proposing a resurrection of BR, just a level playing field.

    Indeed so. In fact East Coast is run by the British state, because the private sector operator ran away, but the Tories are insisting on re-privatising it just before the election, for reasons known only to themselves. Go for it guys!

    http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/customers-give-east-coast-top-satisfaction-rating-in-latest-survey/
    "Deutsche Bahn placed a bid in May 2010 for the UK-based transport company Arriva. Arriva runs bus and rail companies in 12 European countries. The merger was approved by the European Commission in August 2010, subject to DB divesting Arriva services in Germany (these are now run as Netinera). The merger became effective on 27 August 2010.[9]

    Services in the UK formerly run as DB Regio are now operated by a new subdivision of the company, Arriva UK Trains. Including Arriva Trains Wales, Cross Country Trains, and Chiltern Railways."

    Wiki
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    DavidL said:

    JackW said:

    @DavidL

    Is the Coalition pairing of IDS & Steve Webb providing the greatest team performance since Germany beat Brazil 7:1

    Discuss.

    Their success will certainly have more longer term benefits for the country than pretty much anything else this government has done.

    But now I must go and get cleared up as I am due to fly off on holiday tomorrow. Never the best of fliers I am looking forward to this flight even less than usual, funnily enough. Thunderstorms promised too.
    My empathy David - nor do I care much for flying.

    Have a nice journey and enjoy your break sir.
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @Financier

    Your point is?

    East Coast is run by the British state. Are you trying to argue otherwise?
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Morning all.
    Completely off topic question to any photography experts on here.
    When trying to take photos of lightning.
    What is a good ISO to use, or is it just pot luck that the shutter is open when the lightning strikes?

    Not an expert but used to have a photographer friend - he'd used something really slow. At a fixed base.

    Try this - http://www.weatherscapes.com/techniques.php?cat=lightning&page=lightning
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    edited July 2014
    @Bobafett It's not on the East coast, but one seat that may well be affected by the news of the Gov't "Not being on the side of the rail commuter" as Labour will no doubt spin it is Reading West. Very good results (Above UNS) in the Reading West wards and also Reading East for Labour there in the locals and also decent results in 2005 perhaps indicating a strong anti-Brown sentiment.

    At any rate I'm on for a smallish stake @ 11-4, but DYOR.

    Survation had it as part of their 4 commuter seat (RMT commissioned) polls which were pretty good for Labour too.
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:
    You forget, BF, that most Peebie Tories (with honourable exceptions) are simply consumed with anger and will defend to the death their right not to think straight...

    It's quite bizarre. Agreed.
  • Options
    Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    Can any UKIPper confirm whether or not the thunderstorms last night were gay marriage thunderstorms?
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Pulpstar said:

    @Bobafett It's not on the East coast, but one seat that may well be affected by the news of the Gov't "Not being on the side of the rail commuter" as Labour will no doubt spin it is Reading West. Very good results (Above UNS) in the Reading West wards and also Reading East for Labour there in the locals and also decent results in 2005 perhaps indicating a strong anti-Brown sentiment.

    At any rate I'm on for a smallish stake @ 11-4, but DYOR.

    Survation had it as part of their 4 commuter seat (RMT commissioned) polls which were pretty good for Labour too.

    Nice tip. Thank you @Pulpstar
  • Options
    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    Can any UKIPper confirm whether or not the thunderstorms last night were gay marriage thunderstorms?

    omens of WWIII as de-dollarisation creates a global crisis point
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Plato said:

    Morning all.
    Completely off topic question to any photography experts on here.
    When trying to take photos of lightning.
    What is a good ISO to use, or is it just pot luck that the shutter is open when the lightning strikes?

    Not an expert but used to have a photographer friend - he'd used something really slow. At a fixed base.

    Try this - http://www.weatherscapes.com/techniques.php?cat=lightning&page=lightning
    Hope you are enjoying the site.

    That's a very useful fact sheet.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    edited July 2014
    @Bobafett I think Reading East will swing strongly to Labour on the night too but it will be a Conservative hold. It's at 6-1 for Labour - I'm not on though (Certainly wouldn't take 1-10 there for Conservative however)
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Think Labour are on the right track on the railways. The way the private franchises are set up means there are few incentives to provide a great service for the customer.
  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Six British death in the Ukraine plane slaughter. We'd be well within our rights to declare war on the Russia-aligned rebels, once proof is established. The deleted tweets by the "Donetsk People's Republic" makes clear who is guilty. The very least we can do is sanctions on all Russian exports.
  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Can any UKIPper confirm whether or not the thunderstorms last night were gay marriage thunderstorms?

    I can't I'm afraid. This UKIPper has supported gay marriage since the 1990s, which is probably longer than most people on here.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,523
    Prof Stephen Fisher's forecast

    Elections Etc @ElectionsEtc · 1h

    NEW #GE2015 FORECAST: Tories back in front as slight favourites to win the most seats

    http://wp.me/p4Be9H-53
  • Options
    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    DavidL said:

    ..... The scale of this is hard to credit. Nelson says: "Each month, the figures confound the predictions of even the most optimistic economists. In last year’s Budget, for example, George Osborne set out an ambitious target of getting 900,000 more people into work by 2018. This figure will now be reached next month."
    Is this the answer? Are all these penalties being imposed in an arbitrary way and rent arrears arising from reductions in Housing Benefit really pushing hundreds of thousands to think, "oh sod it, I'll get a job then"? My guess is that there is a bit of that but the more important part is the drive in making work pay by providing much more generous in work benefits. In other words I think the carrot rather than the stick. But one way or another this is starting to look like one of the most successful public policy changes in recent decades. It is not doing much for the deficit though.

    It is a fact that we are seeing a much greater share of the jobs created, being taken up by Brits than happened under the last Govt. The figures are circa 50% this time compared to circa 10% under the previous Govt. The question then is why are more Brits taking up the new jobs? It is significant that 18+ months ago the BoE assumed that getting down to 7% unemployment level was not going to be easily achieved based on historical patterns of employment.
    "The figures are circa 50% this time compared to circa 10% under the previous Govt."

    There was massive growth in the shadow economy over New Labour's time i.e. people who were working and claiming dole on top, so it might be something to do with that. I don't work in the sort of areas it was happening any more so I don't know for sure.

    Actually now i think of it working tax credits would obviously effect that if it was more than dole. It might have taken people a while to cotton on.

  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    Prof Stephen Fisher's forecast

    Elections Etc @ElectionsEtc · 1h

    NEW #GE2015 FORECAST: Tories back in front as slight favourites to win the most seats

    http://wp.me/p4Be9H-53

    It should be said that it's out of date - using mostly numbers prior to the reshuffle.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Most amusing part of Nelson's column

    "It could have been a Liberal Democrat triumph, too, had Nick Clegg been minded to take credit for it. But he has decided that all of this is just too Tory for his grassroots to swallow. One of Clegg’s aides confesses that, given the popularity of welfare reform, the Deputy Prime Minister considered boasting about it on his leaflets – but his team decided that they couldn’t, because their activists would refuse to post them."

    On the railways - what part of the rubbish 70's will the left want back next ?

    3 Tv channels (66% state ownership) ? Means poor people can watch Premiership football and the cricket too - fairness hardwired in ?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    F1: rain forecast for race day. Possible that it could absolutely piss it down. Worth comparing the probably dry qualifying pace with the wet qualifying at Silverstone and, er, elsewhere (we have had another wet qualifying, but can't recall where, off the top of my head). Silverstone's very recent but Williams and Ferrari buggering up their approach to qualifying makes it of somewhat limited utility.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Prof Stephen Fisher's forecast

    Elections Etc @ElectionsEtc · 1h

    NEW #GE2015 FORECAST: Tories back in front as slight favourites to win the most seats

    http://wp.me/p4Be9H-53

    But but but but but but YOUGOV !!
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,523
    TGOHF said:

    Prof Stephen Fisher's forecast

    Elections Etc @ElectionsEtc · 1h

    NEW #GE2015 FORECAST: Tories back in front as slight favourites to win the most seats

    http://wp.me/p4Be9H-53

    But but but but but but YOUGOV !!
    Don't you know, YouGov are the Gold Standard.
  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294

    Not exactly novel but quite a good piece on chief whips:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10972784/Chief-Whips-theyre-not-as-nice-as-they-look.html

    In my experience their success is based on tailoring their approach to the individual. In 13 years I was only "menaced" once, even when I was occasionally voting the "wrong" way - a whip told me that if I didn't vote for a dodgy Bill he'd see I didn't get any front-bench visits. I laughed in his face (I wasn't getting them anyway) and next day the Chief Whip (Armstrong) apologised. If anyone had grabbed my balls as the article claims, I'd have gone straight to Blair and if necessary the press. But they had more luck by appealing to my loyalty and friendship, and in retrospect I was too pliable to that approach.

    In another case, an MP's partner ran off with someone, leaving the MP to care for a disabled child. The whips said sympathetically that the MP should take as much time off voting as needed and forget about them while things were sorted out. Once things had indeed been sorted the grateful MP was fanatically loyal on absolutely everything.

    None of these things should really matter, of course - MPs should only vote on the issues. But they're people, and understanding people is what being a whip is about.

    As a job application for regional whip (assuming you beat Ms Soubry, of course) I reckon that would be hard to beat...

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941

    Prof Stephen Fisher's forecast

    Elections Etc @ElectionsEtc · 1h

    NEW #GE2015 FORECAST: Tories back in front as slight favourites to win the most seats

    http://wp.me/p4Be9H-53

    Precisely as I predicted - Mr Fisher's forecast will bounce around Con/Lab most seats for a fair while.
  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    TGOHF said:

    Most amusing part of Nelson's column

    "It could have been a Liberal Democrat triumph, too, had Nick Clegg been minded to take credit for it. But he has decided that all of this is just too Tory for his grassroots to swallow. One of Clegg’s aides confesses that, given the popularity of welfare reform, the Deputy Prime Minister considered boasting about it on his leaflets – but his team decided that they couldn’t, because their activists would refuse to post them."

    On the railways - what part of the rubbish 70's will the left want back next ?

    3 Tv channels (66% state ownership) ? Means poor people can watch Premiership football and the cricket too - fairness hardwired in ?

    I want the 70s back. Be worth a few boring one-day strikes to get my youth back. Knowing what I know now, of course...

  • Options
    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Any set of local election results for one night maybe indicates one or two clues though I still reckon over a longer period real votes are as good an indicator as polls,if not better.This makes Harry's weekly piece one of the most important guides this site has.What clues?
    Just as an anti-UKIP vote emerged at Newark,it could be that Labour is now finding a seam of support from those who may have voted UKIP recently and the "Vote Ukip,get Tory" message could just be working,especially amongst working class voters.It will be interesting to see if the polls support the UKIP-Lab switch.These are exactly the kind of largely elderly voters,who the likes of a Dennis Skinner could pull round in 30 seconds.
    Dennis Skinner and his acolytes ought to have a major part to play in GE2015.


  • Options
    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    MrJones said:

    DavidL said:

    ..... The scale of this is hard to credit. Nelson says: "Each month, the figures confound the predictions of even the most optimistic economists. In last year’s Budget, for example, George Osborne set out an ambitious target of getting 900,000 more people into work by 2018. This figure will now be reached next month."
    Is this the answer? Are all these penalties being imposed in an arbitrary way and rent arrears arising from reductions in Housing Benefit really pushing hundreds of thousands to think, "oh sod it, I'll get a job then"? My guess is that there is a bit of that but the more important part is the drive in making work pay by providing much more generous in work benefits. In other words I think the carrot rather than the stick. But one way or another this is starting to look like one of the most successful public policy changes in recent decades. It is not doing much for the deficit though.

    It is a fact that we are seeing a much greater share of the jobs created, being taken up by Brits than happened under the last Govt. The figures are circa 50% this time compared to circa 10% under the previous Govt. The question then is why are more Brits taking up the new jobs? It is significant that 18+ months ago the BoE assumed that getting down to 7% unemployment level was not going to be easily achieved based on historical patterns of employment.
    "The figures are circa 50% this time compared to circa 10% under the previous Govt."

    There was massive growth in the shadow economy over New Labour's time i.e. people who were working and claiming dole on top, so it might be something to do with that. I don't work in the sort of areas it was happening any more so I don't know for sure.

    Actually now i think of it working tax credits would obviously effect that if it was more than dole. It might have taken people a while to cotton on.

    On reflection WTC might go back a bit far to be the main cause. However if there's any of IDS' changes that make it physically more of a hassle to work and claim dole at the same time then that's likely part of it with WTC easing the transition.

  • Options
    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    Network Rail has been nationalised (by the statisticians) with effect from 1 September 2014.

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/na-classification/national-accounts-sector-classification/classification-of-network-rail-under-european-system-of-accounts-2010/art--classification-of-network-rail-under-european-system-of-accounts-2010.html#tab-Executive-Summary .

    So it will have an accounting officer and be directly responsible to parliament and become within the scope of freedom of information requests. In addition DfT has announced that Network Rail will no longer borrow direct from the market but rather borrow from the treasury.

    The interesting question becomes what should be the new purpose and object of the office of rail regulation - it is currently the health and safety regulation for railways; determines track access agreements for both passenger and freight operators; determines and monitors Network Rail targets based of a five year period, etc.

    The first remains important. The second becomes more difficult if there are less non state operators. Freight operators are private, and there are non franchised operators as well (eg Hull trains). A railway line is a scarce resource and needs to be carefully managed. There are currently several applications for track access over the east coast line, only one of which is to be for the winner of the east coast franchise competition.

    The third becomes odd though, what is the point of an independent regulator intervening between two state entities? It might suggest that one or both is unable to do their job properly?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,523
    edited July 2014
    Reshuffle bounce wipes out Lab's lead?

    Populus @PopulusPolls · 16s

    New Populus VI: Lab 35 (-2); Cons 35 (+1); LD 8 (-1); UKIP 14 (+2); Oth 8 (-) Tables http://popu.lu/s_vi140718
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    An interesting point to note are the upper bounds for the parties:

    LD: 29 (23 – 36) 95% probability according to Dr Stephen Fisher

    An UPPER bound of 36 seats at this point is incredibly bad news on a model such as this.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Most amusing part of Nelson's column

    "It could have been a Liberal Democrat triumph, too, had Nick Clegg been minded to take credit for it. But he has decided that all of this is just too Tory for his grassroots to swallow. One of Clegg’s aides confesses that, given the popularity of welfare reform, the Deputy Prime Minister considered boasting about it on his leaflets – but his team decided that they couldn’t, because their activists would refuse to post them."

    On the railways - what part of the rubbish 70's will the left want back next ?

    3 Tv channels (66% state ownership) ? Means poor people can watch Premiership football and the cricket too - fairness hardwired in ?

    I want the 70s back. Be worth a few boring one-day strikes to get my youth back. Knowing what I know now, of course...

    What phone provider would you like sir ? We have govt owned BT , BT , BT , BT or BT ?

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    TGOHF said:

    Prof Stephen Fisher's forecast

    Elections Etc @ElectionsEtc · 1h

    NEW #GE2015 FORECAST: Tories back in front as slight favourites to win the most seats

    http://wp.me/p4Be9H-53

    But but but but but but YOUGOV !!
    Dr Fisher's polls are based overwhemingly on Yougov since it uses www.ukpollingreport.com as a basis...
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Far be it for me to be critical of the Prof's recent entrant into the world of ARSE predictions but a forecast of :

    30% Con maj
    26% Con largest
    23% Lab largest
    20% Lab maj

    does seem to predicate a sore bum for the Prof on account of fence sitting !!

    Get some bottom man .... nail it to the mast. Resist the wibbly wobberly. An ARSE must be pert, firm and not given to swinging every which way and loose.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Reshuffle bounce wipes out Lab's lead?

    Populus @PopulusPolls · 16s

    New Populus VI: Lab 35 (-2); Cons 35 (+1); LD 8 (-1); UKIP 14 (+2); Oth 8 (-) Tables http://popu.lu/s_vi140718

    Good poll for the kippers.

    Populus matching gold standard ICM apart from reversing Kippers and LDs.
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