Disgraceful abuse of anti-terrorism laws. Do the police not think through that they may well get these powers revoked one day if they are continually abused in this manner ?
And if a terrorist attack was to get through due to revocation of powers they'd only have themselves to blame.
But the powers should probably be revoked, that is no way to be using them. This case, and many many others.
Why would they think the powers would be revoked? Both this government and the last are quite happy to endlessly hand over new powers to the security services, despite plenty of cases of abuse.
Long term abuse of the powers may see them revokd in my opinion. Not this parliament, probably not the next but at some point in the future. If they weren't abused then they would have them ad infinitum.
Why should people have to tolerate sneery hacks intruding into their private lives just because they are slebs? Phone hacking is, rightly, illegal. The fact that they are slebs is entirely irrelevant.
Celebrities, however, want the Press to report their every doing, at least when it reflects credit on them. I don't therefore feel very sorry for celebrities who have their unsavoury habits reported in the Press.
Nothing has turned my stomach more than Steve Coogan and Hugh Grant doing pained rounds of media interviews about the injustice they've suffered.
Lord knows where we'd end up if they were in charge.
I don't think Hugh Grant has ever got over being caught engaged in "lewd conduct" in Hollywood.
And I don't think I've ever got over who he paid to engage in lewd conduct with. All the California girls were supposed to be potty for Hugh Grant back then, and yet he went down THAT road.. with HER?
It baffled me then, and it baffles me now.
Better still, he told Divine Brown that he loved her, that she was the most beautiful woman he'd ever met, at a time when he was going out with Elizabeth Hurley.
The abuse of these powers is utterly unacceptable and although not directly relevant in this case is also the widespread attempt by various authorities to restrict filming and photography in public places.
A simple google video search on the subject is both enlightening and disturbing.
The abuse of these powers is utterly unacceptable and although not directly relevant in this case is also the widespread attempt by various authorities to restrict filming and photography in public places.
A simple google video search on the subject is both enlightening and disturbing.
Yes. It's a point Socrates - to his credit - regularly makes so powerfully.
I wonder if the only way to lance the boil on idiocy like this is for a journalist to call the bluff of the police and say, 'Go on then, arrest me.'
When it's brought to court, it will get rightfully thrown out, and the ensuing embarrassment and media profile might force the government to change the law.
@JackW The government has the right to film you in a public place, but you have no right to film them?
Sounds a tad unbalanced to me.
Coppers pull out the anti-terrorism ace card when you don't immediately yield, and piss them off by answering back. Other public servants and uniformed staff pull a similar rouse with the old 'Health & Safety' gambit when they want you to stop what you're doing, and bugger off.
Abuse of authority and power is a human weakness, as is being lazy and following the path of least resistance to get someone to comply with what you want. That's also the reason that laws and rules are so important to get right, and why we must always watch what the government and its official wants to do - and is doing - with them very carefully.
@JackW The government has the right to film you in a public place, but you have no right to film them?
Sounds a tad unbalanced to me.
It's not so much unbalanced as inaccurate.
ACPO have made it perfectly clear that photography and filming in public places is perfectly legal and have stated that Chief Constables should ensure their forces know this is the case.
Sadly far too often junior police officers do not know the laws they are incorrectly trying to enforce.
The abuse of these powers is utterly unacceptable and although not directly relevant in this case is also the widespread attempt by various authorities to restrict filming and photography in public places.
A simple google video search on the subject is both enlightening and disturbing.
Yes. It's a point Socrates - to his credit - regularly makes so powerfully.
I wonder if the only way to lance the boil on idiocy like this is for a journalist to call the bluff of the police and say, 'Go on then, arrest me.'
When it's brought to court, it will get rightfully thrown out, and the ensuing embarrassment and media profile might force the government to change the law.
Why on earth the prejudice against flying economy?
I usually fly economy on trips in Europe, and only upgrade myself (self pay) when I've had a particularly hard week. I always fly coach in the States & only fly business when it's a long haul flight.
Why on earth the prejudice against flying economy?
I usually fly economy on trips in Europe, and only upgrade myself (self pay) when I've had a particularly hard week. I always fly coach in the States & only fly business when it's a long haul flight.
Why on earth the prejudice against flying economy?
I usually fly economy on trips in Europe, and only upgrade myself (self pay) when I've had a particularly hard week. I always fly coach in the States & only fly business when it's a long haul flight.
You fly commercial???
It's the instant coffee does it, he'll make any sacrifice to have some ;-)
Why on earth the prejudice against flying economy?
I usually fly economy on trips in Europe, and only upgrade myself (self pay) when I've had a particularly hard week. I always fly coach in the States & only fly business when it's a long haul flight.
You fly commercial???
For a 1-2 hour flight in the US the business package isn't really worth it. Although that depends how fast you can guzzle the free booze! You don't even get lounge access unless there is an international carrier with a gold status lounge in your departure airport.
ACPO have made it perfectly clear that photography and filming in public places is perfectly legal and have stated that Chief Constables should ensure their forces know this is the case.
According to the article, this wasn't a 'public place' but private property, so there is a theoretical obligation to seek permission from the property owners (in this case, the train operator).
However, that doesn't explain why the police were inventing a non-existent power. It would be a civil dispute between the photographer and the property owner.
The problem isn't that the police have too many legal powers, it's that they pretend to have powers which parliament has not given them.
If the Guardian article is accurate (admittedly, a big 'if'), the journalist should put in a formal complaint and, if the facts as stated are upheld, the police officers should be disciplined. In particular, it should be made very clear indeed that the police should not undermine public confidence by citing anti-terrorist legislation in cases which have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism.
ACPO have made it perfectly clear that photography and filming in public places is perfectly legal and have stated that Chief Constables should ensure their forces know this is the case.
According to the article, this wasn't a 'public place' but private property, so there is a theoretical obligation to seek permission from the property owners (in this case, the train operator).
However, that doesn't explain why the police were inventing a non-existent power. It would be a civil dispute between the photographer and the property owner.
The problem isn't that the police have too many legal powers, it's that they pretend to have powers which parliament has not given them.
If the Guardian article is accurate (admittedly, a big 'if'), the journalist should put in a formal complaint and, if the facts as stated are upheld, the police officers should be disciplined. In particular, it should be made very clear indeed that the police should not undermine public confidence by citing anti-terrorist legislation in cases which have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism.
I confess I was shocked several years back to note the number of cases of police officers and others completely unaware of the status of public filming.
Some officers were mildly off cue but others were completely out of order.
"Some officers were mildly off cue but others were completely out of order."
Some of them could get a job in North Korea ;-)
The vast majority of our police do a fine job, often putting their life on the line for the benefit of the greater good of society. However through the generations there have been and probably always will be a minority of over zealous, corrupt and ineffective officers.
In a previous age these deficiencies were largely hidden but today mass public media and social networking has laid the problem bare and the police are seen for what they are - warts and all and too often the viewing is not pretty.
I have had this conversation with a few ex and serving police, The problem is that they have a defensive posture closely replicating a gang mentality. Even otherwise good officers will turn a blind eye. Most know that it needs to change, but it is ingrained.
I have had this conversation with a few ex and serving police, The problem is that they have a defensive posture closely replicating a gang mentality. Even otherwise good officers will turn a blind eye. Most know that it needs to change, but it is ingrained.
Agreed.
It's takes huge resolve and leadership for an individual officer, even of senior rank, to tackle this problem and also IMO a Home Secretary of iron will. Both are few and far between.
Why on earth the prejudice against flying economy?
I usually fly economy on trips in Europe, and only upgrade myself (self pay) when I've had a particularly hard week. I always fly coach in the States & only fly business when it's a long haul flight.
You fly commercial???
Of course I do.
It would be a waste of money to do anything else.
Although if you are in the market, I've a friend who inherited one of Gadaffi's 747s and would be keen to sell it - it hasn't been used in 20 years as it costs $70,000 just to turn it on.
No opinion poll has yet suggested that Scotland will actually vote “yes” and perhaps this accounts for the increasingly shrill tone adopted by the Nationalists. In their desperation to win their glittering prize they will say anything, no matter how ludicrous or illogical, that might further their aims. A “no” vote, they insist against all the evidence, will be a catastrophe.
I have had this conversation with a few ex and serving police, The problem is that they have a defensive posture closely replicating a gang mentality. Even otherwise good officers will turn a blind eye. Most know that it needs to change, but it is ingrained.
Very good observation.
There are massive issues facing the police if they want to begin to regain the respect they need to do an effective job.
When people like me 55 - 65, no adverse personal experience, comfortable middle class are suspicious of the police and wouldn't trust a word they say, they have a problem.
I know too many people who have suffered injustice from the police, and I know too many officers who have the arrogance and confidence of the gang culture smarmeron alluded to.
Further evidence of massive excess capacity in the police:
Charlie Brooks on the police raid: 4.45 in the morning, eighteen of them (police) came through our kitchen door, which was a little bit of a surprise. Searched our baby’s cot. Treated us like terrorists and carted us off to different police stations.
Coulson was not a criminal when Cameron hired him and had not been found guilty of anything. I have little time for him, but it does seem Coulson is being made a bit of a scapegoat
I am not sure how it works in England, but in Scotland, the police know exactly who to ring for a search warrant, and those who might look a little more closely before signing.
Coulson was not a criminal when Cameron hired him and had not been found guilty of anything. I have little time for him, but it does seem Coulson is being made a bit of a scapegoat
it's a media\westminster story. Out in the real world nobody gives a toss.
CasinoRoyale Michael Macintyre is definitely a Tory. Bob Monkhouse was too as was Kenny Everett and Jimmy Tarbuck still is along with Davidson.
Al Murray is not really left-wing, more cynical of all of them, but a patriot, Russell Howard is actually a Boris fan if you watch Good News. Jack Whitehall is probably a deeply closeted Tory too, but again largely apolitical
The abuse of these powers is utterly unacceptable and although not directly relevant in this case is also the widespread attempt by various authorities to restrict filming and photography in public places.
A simple google video search on the subject is both enlightening and disturbing.
Yes. It's a point Socrates - to his credit - regularly makes so powerfully.
I wonder if the only way to lance the boil on idiocy like this is for a journalist to call the bluff of the police and say, 'Go on then, arrest me.'
When it's brought to court, it will get rightfully thrown out, and the ensuing embarrassment and media profile might force the government to change the law.
The bluff has been called many times and the poison still seems to be in the police mentality.
ScottP/RN If Labour lose I would expect Ed M to be forced out, and then to throw his weight behind Chukka Umunna in a 3 way contest with Cooper and Burnham which Umunna would narrowly win. Only Kinnock after the 1987 defeat and Heath after the 1966 defeat have stayed on as opposition leader after a post-war general election defeat and neither were exactly good omens (and Kinnock did manage to save Labour from oblivion and take on the hard left, and Heath had only had 2 years in charge when he lost)
Further evidence of massive excess capacity in the police:
Charlie Brooks on the police raid: 4.45 in the morning, eighteen of them (police) came through our kitchen door, which was a little bit of a surprise. Searched our baby’s cot. Treated us like terrorists and carted us off to different police stations.
This in relation to events alleged to have occurred years before, and which even in the worst scenario would have been relatively minor.
IIRC Tony Haw? (the chap who had the one man protest outside Parliament for years) had a load of artwork donated to him seized by plod in a raid. It involved around 75 officers.
ScottP/RN If Labour lose I would expect Ed M to be forced out, and then to throw his weight behind Chukka Umunna in a 3 way contest with Cooper and Burnham which Umunna would narrowly win. Only Kinnock after the 1987 defeat and Heath after the 1966 defeat have stayed on as opposition leader after a post-war general election defeat and neither were exactly good omens (and Kinnock did manage to save Labour from oblivion and take on the hard left, and Heath had only had 2 years in charge when he lost)
ScottP/RN If Labour lose I would expect Ed M to be forced out, and then to throw his weight behind Chukka Umunna in a 3 way contest with Cooper and Burnham which Umunna would narrowly win. Only Kinnock after the 1987 defeat and Heath after the 1966 defeat have stayed on as opposition leader after a post-war general election defeat and neither were exactly good omens (and Kinnock did manage to save Labour from oblivion and take on the hard left, and Heath had only had 2 years in charge when he lost)
Yes, if the report is correct, Ed M is deluded. Still, it would be nice...
ACPO have made it perfectly clear that photography and filming in public places is perfectly legal and have stated that Chief Constables should ensure their forces know this is the case.
According to the article, this wasn't a 'public place' but private property, so there is a theoretical obligation to seek permission from the property owners (in this case, the train operator).
However, that doesn't explain why the police were inventing a non-existent power. It would be a civil dispute between the photographer and the property owner.
The problem isn't that the police have too many legal powers, it's that they pretend to have powers which parliament has not given them.
If the Guardian article is accurate (admittedly, a big 'if'), the journalist should put in a formal complaint and, if the facts as stated are upheld, the police officers should be disciplined. In particular, it should be made very clear indeed that the police should not undermine public confidence by citing anti-terrorist legislation in cases which have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism.
Bedfordshire is reckoned to have a poorly-performing police force, yet I have to say that I've found them to be efficient and conscientious in my dealings with them in Luton.
IMHO, the worst examples of bad conduct in the police come at higher, not lower, levels.
To get the article for free you need to google "Voters back Cameron’s stance in fight against Juncker"
David Cameron may be heading for a crushing defeat in his attempt to stop Jean-Claude Juncker becoming European Commission president, but voters appear to be willing him to go down fighting.
A Populus/FT poll found that by a margin or more than 2:1, voters think that even if Mr Cameron is outvoted by European leaders and Mr Juncker is appointed, the prime minister will appear strong rather than weak.
.....The country appears evenly divided on how it would vote if there were a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU: it found that 37 per cent would vote to stay in and 36 per cent would vote to leave.
Further evidence of massive excess capacity in the police:
Charlie Brooks on the police raid: 4.45 in the morning, eighteen of them (police) came through our kitchen door, which was a little bit of a surprise. Searched our baby’s cot. Treated us like terrorists and carted us off to different police stations.
This in relation to events alleged to have occurred years before, and which even in the worst scenario would have been relatively minor.
IIRC Tony Haw? (the chap who had the one man protest outside Parliament for years) had a load of artwork donated to him seized by plod in a raid. It involved around 75 officers.
Suarez is going to have to be fitted with a hockey mask. The bloke is a football genius, but a horrible little shite. Liverpool FC should cash him in whille he's still worth a small fortune.
Suarez is going to have to be fitted with a hockey mask. The bloke is a football genius, but a horrible little shite. Liverpool FC should cash him in whille he's still worth a small fortune.
If he was playing at local level he'd have been banned for life by now, assault isn't lauded unless you're a buck,toothed millionaire
Comments
Apparently the government is still using "data collection" under the 2009 law, despite those terrible EU judges who declared it illegal.
Ladbrokes have taken more bets and more money on #CRC than #ENG to win today.
British government 'breaking law' in forcing data retention by companies
EU directive overturned in April but UK continues to make telecoms and internet firms comply with legislation"
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/24/british-government-breaking-law-in-forcing-data-retention-by-companies
A simple google video search on the subject is both enlightening and disturbing.
The government has the right to film you in a public place, but you have no right to film them?
Sounds a tad unbalanced to me.
I'm not sure that's what Coogan intended when he created them.
I wonder if the only way to lance the boil on idiocy like this is for a journalist to call the bluff of the police and say, 'Go on then, arrest me.'
When it's brought to court, it will get rightfully thrown out, and the ensuing embarrassment and media profile might force the government to change the law.
Even Gareth Cheeseman is nicer than Coogan.
Abuse of authority and power is a human weakness, as is being lazy and following the path of least resistance to get someone to comply with what you want. That's also the reason that laws and rules are so important to get right, and why we must always watch what the government and its official wants to do - and is doing - with them very carefully.
And as for Pauline Calf.....well......
ACPO have made it perfectly clear that photography and filming in public places is perfectly legal and have stated that Chief Constables should ensure their forces know this is the case.
Sadly far too often junior police officers do not know the laws they are incorrectly trying to enforce.
140 off 30 overs..
However, that doesn't explain why the police were inventing a non-existent power. It would be a civil dispute between the photographer and the property owner.
The problem isn't that the police have too many legal powers, it's that they pretend to have powers which parliament has not given them.
If the Guardian article is accurate (admittedly, a big 'if'), the journalist should put in a formal complaint and, if the facts as stated are upheld, the police officers should be disciplined. In particular, it should be made very clear indeed that the police should not undermine public confidence by citing anti-terrorist legislation in cases which have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism.
Mainly due to Headingley's lack of floodlights.
Some officers were mildly off cue but others were completely out of order.
Eng - 212/8
"Some officers were mildly off cue but others were completely out of order."
Some of them could get a job in North Korea ;-)
In a previous age these deficiencies were largely hidden but today mass public media and social networking has laid the problem bare and the police are seen for what they are - warts and all and too often the viewing is not pretty.
I have had this conversation with a few ex and serving police, The problem is that they have a defensive posture closely replicating a gang mentality.
Even otherwise good officers will turn a blind eye.
Most know that it needs to change, but it is ingrained.
It's takes huge resolve and leadership for an individual officer, even of senior rank, to tackle this problem and also IMO a Home Secretary of iron will. Both are few and far between.
Eng - 228/9
It would be a waste of money to do anything else.
Although if you are in the market, I've a friend who inherited one of Gadaffi's 747s and would be keen to sell it - it hasn't been used in 20 years as it costs $70,000 just to turn it on.
He won't charge you extra for the gold taps
Will they be done before PMQs?
There are massive issues facing the police if they want to begin to regain the respect they need to do an effective job.
When people like me 55 - 65, no adverse personal experience, comfortable middle class are suspicious of the police and wouldn't trust a word they say, they have a problem.
I know too many people who have suffered injustice from the police, and I know too many officers who have the arrogance and confidence of the gang culture smarmeron alluded to.
@SkyNewsBreak: Judge has asked #hacking jury to return to court at 11am tomorrow morning and has advised jury to ignore all media reports on the case
Charlie Brooks on the police raid: 4.45 in the morning, eighteen of them (police) came through our kitchen door, which was a little bit of a surprise. Searched our baby’s cot. Treated us like terrorists and carted us off to different police stations.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/24/andy-coulson-found-guilty-of-phone-hacking-live-coverage
This in relation to events alleged to have occurred years before, and which even in the worst scenario would have been relatively minor.
I am not sure how it works in England, but in Scotland, the police know exactly who to ring for a search warrant, and those who might look a little more closely before signing.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2666396/Ill-stay-Labour-leader-lose-General-Election-says-Miliband-Ed-tells-friends-Kinnock.html
Oh.
Al Murray is not really left-wing, more cynical of all of them, but a patriot, Russell Howard is actually a Boris fan if you watch Good News. Jack Whitehall is probably a deeply closeted Tory too, but again largely apolitical
Sack the Officer, pour encourager les autres.
So glad I cashed out earlier.
IMHO, the worst examples of bad conduct in the police come at higher, not lower, levels.
That's all you need to know.
David Cameron may be heading for a crushing defeat in his attempt to stop Jean-Claude Juncker becoming European Commission president, but voters appear to be willing him to go down fighting.
A Populus/FT poll found that by a margin or more than 2:1, voters think that even if Mr Cameron is outvoted by European leaders and Mr Juncker is appointed, the prime minister will appear strong rather than weak.
.....The country appears evenly divided on how it would vote if there were a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU: it found that 37 per cent would vote to stay in and 36 per cent would vote to leave.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d6cc46ac-fbb0-11e3-9a03-00144feab7de.html#axzz35a1pciWF
The guy is a great footballer but an absolute idiot.